Banco ABC Brasil S.A. (ABCB4) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning to everyone. I'm Ricardo Moura, Director of Investor Relations, M&A Property (sic) [ Proprietary ] and Strategies. Welcome to the teleconference of results of the fourth quarter of ABC Bank Brasil. [Operator Instructions]. Before we begin, I'd like to share the following disclosures. Declarations that might be made during this conference relating to the perspectives of the ABC Bank projections, targets, operational and financial, these are beliefs and premises of the administration of the company and information that is available for the ABC Bank Brasil. Future considerations are not guarantees and these involve risks, uncertainties and premises because these have to do with future events, and they depend on circumstances that might or not occur. You should understand that the general conditions, the sector conditions and other operational factors can affect the future results of the ABC Brasil Bank and end up in different results that are expressed in future conditions. With the data protection law, we also informed that this presentation is being recorded and it is being publicized in our social networks and YouTube. Personal data like image and voice can be shared with no loss or either going against the law. All the content and the presentation is available in our website. To follow the presentations better, I also suggest that you download the content on the QR code that you can see. At the end, we will have our moment of questions-and-answers. Here with us for the presentation of results, we have Sergio Lulia, our CEO. Welcome, Sergio.

Thank you, Ricardo. Good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to be one more quarter here with you. So let's move on to the results. Let's start with the highlights. So we end up with an income of BRL 852 million and ROAE of 15.5% in the year. In our opinion, it shows a model that is more diversified and resilient with more structural income in the different cycles. Our client base has increased 436 clients in the year, a growth of almost 10% in the number of clients during 2023. In expenses, we also have more discipline. We have delivered a growth of 10.9% in relation to the prior year, practically in the same base of the guidance that had been given to the market. And the Services, these are behaving very well, BRL 384 million, practically stable in relation to 2022 in spite of the first year. The highlight is the part of -- a growth of 34% in comparison to the year before. This is the part of the insurance brokers. Now let's move on to further highlights in 2023. Our base of clients, we have more than 436 new clients for the year. This is the Service revenue, BRL 384 million. The insurance broker -- the net income, BRL 852 million in 2023. ROAE, 15.5%. These are the results of the Bank ABC Brasil. Let's continue our presentation, with the expanded credit portfolio. We had a good reaction in the last quarter. We had a growth of 6.2% in the last quarter last year, and the growth in the year was 7.2%. In terms of the segments is the corporate segment with a growth of 12.1% in the year, representing 59% of the total portfolio of the bank. In products, the highlight of -- the securities that had a growth of 21.4% in the semester, almost 60% in the year. So during the year, the first quarters with the slower growth, the fourth quarter with a higher growth and the expectation that you can see is a stronger growth in the year of 2024. Point of view of the sectorial we -- break down. We have a very satisfactory segments with the main different parts of the Brazilian economy. We have the agro area with 22.1% as the most representative segment. Then we have energy, sugar and alcohol. We have all the part of energy generation and also trading and transmission. The service sector also has a strong highlight with a growth of [ 12.6% ] in the year. It becomes the third most representative segment of our portfolio; and then commerce, incorporators and other. It is a feature of ABC Brasil to have this possibility of navigating different sectors according to the moment of each one, according to the perspective of credit growth, leveraging in these different segments, something that we've always done. But our knowledge and our size allows us to do this very efficiently. Now we have the financial margin. We end the year with BRL 2.245 billion -- financial margin, a growth of [ 11% ] in relation to 2022. And the highlight that I'd like to give you here is the growth in all the components, the margin with the clients that goes from BRL 1,300 million to BRL 2,245 million and the growth and the equity of CDI, BRL 465 million (sic) [ BRL 475 million ] to BRL 560 million. Here in the quarter, we have a small drop coming from CDI equity. In the point of view of the NIM, we end up the year with 4.6%, stable in relation to the year of 2022. This is the net interest margin. We had a little drop in the last semester, and this is due to a mix of products and segments. So when it grows -- sometimes, it grows a bit more, and sometimes it might go a bit down, but this base, about 4.4%, 4.6%, we believe that this is a very good number, and it can be maintained. The spreads with annualized clients. Here, we have the spread of the group and the net provision spread. This net spread comes with a trend to grow in the last semester going from 2.8% in the last semester and growing consecutively in the last 3 semesters, 3.3%. When we look at the margin with the client, adjusted to the provision, the numbers are the same. We go from BRL 221 million to BRL 240 million in the first quarter of '23, then BRL 256 million, BRL 261 million, and we end up by BRL 278 million. This shows, in my opinion, correct choice of the profile of the clients and the earnings that bring a good result for the bank and the net provisions. Here, you see in the highlights, we also end up with the service revenues practically stable compared to last year. And I think this is very good considering that the first semester, the capital market in Brazil practically did not exist. There's a big recovery here in the investment banking. When we look here, we can see in the chart, BRL 18 million, then it goes to BRL 51 million and then BRL 37 million, allowing us to reach BRL 120 million investment bank -- inferior to the BRL 145 million of 2022, but with a very good recovery in the second semester. And the big highlight comes from the tariffs and insurance. It goes from BRL 75 million to BRL 101 million, expressive growth, and we hope that this growth will continue. In the part of commissions of guarantees, this is practically constant. This is a consolidated market where the bank has been working for a long time, and this line brings stability with the earnings with services. The other lines fluctuate a bit more. And the quality of the credit portfolio, we end the year with the overdue over 90 days. If we don't consider the Americanas, it will drop to 1%. And then we have the Middle about 4% and the corporate 0.4%. The message here is that there was a more difficult credit cycle. In 2023, we started to see a more benign cycle in relation to the behavior of the clients' activity level, drop of interest rates. So we hope that this rating and others will behave very well in the next quarters. The provision expenses. Here we go back to the level of 0.5%. This is the level that was coming in 2022. When we look at our history, this level oscillates between 0% and 1%. Sometimes, the market is a bit more nervous about 1%, and then it comes down 0.5%. So we reinforce once again this vision that the credit cycle has a trend to improve. The PDD is 3.5%. And if you don't consider Americanas, 2.4%. The segments are here described very well, provisioned. And the coverage rate, which has dropped because of Americanas, but if you don't consider it, it comes to 247%, which is a very satisfactory level. Efficiency rating. We end the year practically efficiency ratio a bit higher than the guidance that had been given to the market. It's satisfactory, but it's less than we forecasted. And this -- if we look here at the earnings, we had a growth of more or less the same. So obviously, the ratio is constant, but the expenses they behaved as we had expected. We had revised these guidelines, 10% to 15%. It was 10.9%, so very, very close. Now the revenues. Due to lesser dynamic of the corporate market that didn't grow in Brazil as a whole and had bad growth date of -- consolidated data of the Central Bank and also the first semester impacted by provisions and investment banks. This was 10% and our expectation was that it would grow more. Next year or this year 2024, we go back to this improvement of the efficiency ratio. Funding. This is still the strong point of the bank. We have access of different profiles of clients. Today, we have 32% of our funding coming from institutional clients, 17% physical -- individuals, 16% corporate and then the BNDES with 5.6% of the line -- passing over the lines and then the equity of the bank and then other trade finance, agencies. So it's very -- funding, very stable. There's an abundancy with all these investments, and we can -- we have very competitive prices. Now let's talk about the Basel ratio now, and our shareholders' equity, an improvement -- 14.6%, it goes to 14.9%. And due to the accumulated earnings, the increase of capital with the recapitalization, which was authorized by the Central Bank, 0.3% and the funding of new instruments Level 2 brought to 0.4%. As a detract, we had the RWA, which was the increase of the assets. It consumed 0.8%. In the end, we end with 14.9%. This rating has been more or less constant, which we believe is very satisfactory and adequate. We capitalize, we have the potential to grow and reach results that finance this growth. This has been our strategy. As the evolution of the results, we end the year with BRL 851 million compared to the BRL 800 million of the year of 2022. What contributes to this result? The margin, as I had said in the beginning, an improvement of the 3 components: Margin with the market, with clients and the capital earnings, the CDI and also an increase of provision expenses and also with personnel, we are a bank that is growing. So the expenses have to grow, but obviously under control. And this is demonstrated here. At the end, the profit, 6.4%, with a return of 15.5%. If we look at the last years, this chart is very important because it shows consistency of results. And this, I believe, is what most defines the case of our bank today. We have a bank, here you can see in these 8 -- you can see growth of portfolio, higher -- lesser growth, higher provisions, lower provisions, investment bank more active, less active. But today, we have diversification of segments, of products and business fronts that allow the bank to navigate in the cycles with a return, which is already consistently above the capital cost. Now talking again about the guidance of last year. We've talked a little bit about this. The growth of the expanded credit portfolio, it was 4% to 8%. With the growth of the last quarter, we reached 7.2%, therefore, closer to the guidance. Now in the Middle segment, the revised guidance was 5% to 15%, but we reached the number of 2.5%. We did not reach that number. Credit, we have to know when to grow and when not to grow. The market of Middle credit in the year of 2022 presented challenges in the point of view of losses. Companies more leveraged the interest rates higher, affecting these companies and office segments where they operate were not being profitability, so the bank wishes to hold back, but the growth would destroy the values. For this year, as I said, we now have a more benign credit movement. We have been improving during the last 3, 4 months. So we hope that this growth of the Middle portfolio in a larger or quicker rhythm will start happening again in 2024. A part of the expenses, we've already said, revised guidance, 10% to 15%, we delivered 10.9%, so very close. And the ratio of efficiency, 35% to 38%. We were a little bit above 38.6%. So now it's important for us to see what the guidance is for 2024 in expanded credit even though the last quarter is always stronger, but there seems to be a dynamic where the segment of -- is going to grow. So we have a guidance here of growth between 10% to 15% for next year. With the Middle segment, as I said, we have the system, we have the team, we have everything that is necessary to grow. All we need is the risk appetite. This is improving. So we believe that we'll get this guidance of growth to 15% to 25%. A part of the expenses, very much under control, above inflation. It is -- the expenses do grow above inflation, but they're growing in a very controlled manner. Efficiency ratio, which is about 38% and it will be something between 36% and 38%. So these were the highlights that I wanted to tell you about. And I'm now going to give the floor back to Ricardo.

Thank you, Lulia, for bringing us the panorama of the bank results in this fourth quarter of the year of 2023. I also thank everyone that is following our transmission. Now we will start our questions-and-answers.

You may ask the question in English and I will translate it into Portuguese, so please feel free to speak. [Operator Instructions] Today beside me, we have Sergio Borejo, CFO of the bank. Welcome.

Good morning, everyone. Ricardo, Sergio, it's a pleasure to be with you again.

Let's go for the first question, Brian Flores from Citi.

Now that the Middle segment is more enthusiastic for the portfolio, how are you thinking on the risk costs and the consolidated? Are you expecting something higher or are the perspectives more stable for the consolidated?

Well, Brian, thank you very much for your question. We see a risk scenario, which is a bit more benign. We see that companies have gone through sort of a tighter cycle, many of them were able to adjust their costs, the capital flows, stocks, accounts receivable, et cetera. I think there's less uncertainty this year than there was last year with the interest rate also, which should continue because this also favors the credit cycle. So I like to think in risk as a rate where we put the provision of expenses sort of expanded. And we -- divided by the -- this is a rate that fluctuates between 0.5% and 1%. In the beginning of last year, it was about 1% and it went even over. In the last quarter, 0.5%. It will continue like that, perhaps closer to the base than to the top, but the growth of the Middle, the effect that it has, is that provisions are done upfront, like any portfolio. So you get the loan, you do the provision. So when you start growing in a quicker way, these provisions come to your head. So even considering this, we see a more benign scenario.

Now let's go the next question. Pedro Leduc from Itaú.

[Foreign Language] So I understand that you invested. So what should drive this OpEx investment in the year? And do you have any flexible parts that we can adjust the same as was done this year?

Well, thank you very much, Pedro, for your question. I'm going to start and then Borejo is going to help me. He has the keys to the safe. When we talk about expenses, you have to think about this. We are a bank that is expanding. Our rhythm of expanding is a bit lower than the last year's even -- because of the headcount. When you look at 2019, 2022, we went from 600 to 1,200. Last year, we went from 1,200 to 1,280. We continue growing, but growing a bit less. So this year, we have a growth expectation of headcount, which is very concentrated in the Middle and the Corporate segments, less in other areas where we grew last year as technology data innovation that I think there, we already have a team that is super structured. We have sufficient for the deliveries that we have to make. So we have this growth ahead. We continue investing in technology. And when you add this with the collective payroll increase, it is about 5%. You grow these expenses in 5%. When you put a real increase of promotions, salary increase, et cetera, plus the headcount increase and the investments that are done in technology, this brings us to this rate that goes from 9% to 14%. And we trust that we will be okay with this. The point is what is the acceleration speed of the revenues because it is growth, it is getting market share. So we have to have a dynamic where the revenues is growing more than the expenses. Do you want to say something?

Yes. Putting this in numbers, if you, for example, get '22-'23, let's say, employees, which is the main cost, when you have an average growth of the employees from '22 to '23, you have an average growth, which is more or less 11%. When you get the end of 2022, beginning 2023, you have a 5% growth. This shows this trend still of growth, but a growth with a lower curve that Sergio referred to. And the main expenses that we had this year and that grew more were technology and marketing. These 2 lines are practically investments because we don't like delaying things. So these are also characteristic of an organization that is growing. But I think 2023, Sergio said this in his presentation, I think it's very clear, this model of adjustment. We have the capacity of adjusting the growth of these costs given the growth of the bank. So this is a dynamic of growth, lower growth for the future, but with the capacity of adjusting.

We're just checking to see if we have other questions. I'm going to ask a question. If you could comment a bit in the topic of the quality of the income. For example, more or less capital allocation. How in your vision has the bank evolved with time in relation to this mix? And how does the bank see this in relation to the future?

Perfect, Ricardo. Well, I believe that this issue of diversification has been more or less an obsession of ours. In the last years, we have a business model that has always been based with the relationship of clients. This relationship -- these relationships -- long-term relationships, normally, we have a low turnover of clients. With this relationship, it has a lot to do with the credit lines. And what is the point then? These are basically 2 points. First of all, on the point of view of the relevance to the client, if you are a mono-product bank, obviously, you are a partner who is less relevant than one who is multi-products. So we started saying, "Well, since we are a trustworthy partner with relationships that have been established long term, why not try to bring them solutions from other products that can complement the needs that they have." This is one side. On the other side, the banking side, this brings us 2 advantages. One is the higher resiliency as we showed in the last chart. The profitability has been very consistent, high. So why? Because the market has cycles and products have cycles, as I said, sometimes investment bank is better, sometimes credit is better, sometimes derivatives are better, sometimes insurance. So if you have more products, you have a better possibility to navigate these cycles. The second advantage is that credit of all the products is what most consumes capital. So if the bank is very dependent of the revenues that come from credit products, there is the risk of using all its regulatory capital and the profitability is not so good or the revenue is not so good. When you start offering these products, sometimes either they're products that don't use capital like insurance or that use very little capital like the investment bank. Once you do this, you will also bring more profit on this use capital. To give you a number. In 2020 of the revenues that come from clients, we had about 20-something percent. From products with little or no capital use, this went up to 40%. So now we have 40% coming from products that don't use capital and 60% of more capital intensive. This is a ratio that I think is very competitive when we compare even to large banks that already have an offering of products for a longer time. The trend is for us to continue to develop new solutions and new products to our clients, increasing our relevance and our importance for these clients and bringing a more satisfactory return to our shareholders.

Now let's move to the next question, HBC...

This is [ Jatin ]. And congrats on the fourth quarter results. So first, my first question was on NII. So I just want -- could you provide some color on your NII evolution for this year? How should we expect NII to grow with lower rates in one hand this year? And then on the other hand, there's -- you're expecting a pickup in loan growth. So how should we expect NII to evolve this year? My second question is on your expectation for the fee income this year. What do you expect -- how fee to grow this year? And how does the pipeline look like for investment banking activities? I remember you were focusing on increasing your penetration in the regions for investment banking activity. So how do you see fee income evolving this year? And the last question, maybe if you can comment on the dividends and how do you see the normalized level of capital for you?

Thank you for the question. I'm going to summarize the question for the people, but the 3 components. First of all, he asks how we see the evolution of the financial -- the NII for the year of -- which is the net interest margin; how we see the services fees, especially the investment bank part; and the third, to talk a bit about the distribution of dividends looking towards the future.

Perfect, Ricardo. Thank you. I'm going to answer in Portuguese, but you know you have simultaneous translation in English for you to be able to have the response to your questions. So point of view of the first question that you asked, the net interest margin, the NIM, one of the components is going to have a decrease, which is the CDI. Since the Selic cuts have started, they will continue. And this component will then earn less. On the other hand, the other components that -- the healthier ones, which are those that we go after, they have very positive perspectives in the side of the margin -- the net interest margin with the clients, which is the most important, the expectations are very positive, due to the portfolio growth, which is expressed in our slide. In the Total and Middle segment, reminding that the Middle segment has higher spreads. So when you grow this more -- in a more accelerated fashion, this translates in an increase -- of an increase to this margin. As the products dynamics, we have good products. We're very competitive in all the derivatives, services, exchange. So the perspective is good. And the market margin, which had a more difficult first semester, it operated satisfactory again in the second semester, very well prepared and with the expectations of evolving. So even though we have the Selic drop, we hope to grow, and we haven't publicized the guidance, but the expectation is growth. In the point of view of services, we have 3 components. In the guarantees, this is a more -- guarantees issued, it's a more consolidated and constant portfolio. So to expect something stable for this part of our services is reasonable. For the investment banking, we're very enthusiastic. The market in the second semester was strong. The year starts with a strong capital. So not only in fixed income, but in equities, some follow-on operations already taking place. The IPOs will come back this year, and we are well structured. Last year, we restructured the investment bank, putting it as a subsidiary of the bank where the executives have our shareholders. So it's a partnership model. So we have attracted more professionals to develop more products. So today, we are well equipped with M&A. We have a team for equity capital markets, not only in the traditional products but also the more structured ones, operations -- structured operations. We have teams that have been contracted that are part. So I trust a lot the expectations of this bank. And in the part of tariffs and insurance, we grew 30% last year. I don't know if the growth rhythm will continue the same. But for sure, the growth will continue. So once again, the expectations are positive for the service line. In the question of dividends, we're going to continue with our distribution policies. So this is what the bank has done. This adds value for the shareholders. In the point of view of taxes, this is a stimulus. And depending on our growth, which I believe that will be strong, we will propose the Board -- to the Board, and they will decide on the eventual recapitalization of these dividends.

Okay. I am going to end the questions-and-answers now. I thank everyone for their participation and thank you very much for being here. We are reaching the end of our transmission of the conference in the fourth quarter of 2023. I'm going to give the floor to Lulia and Borejo for them to be able to give us their final words.

I'd just like to thank the participation and everyone that is listening and watching, and I hope to see you here in the next opportunity. Thank you very much.

Well, on my part, I also thank everyone for the participation. As you see, 2022 was a lot of challenges, starting with the case of the Americanas in the beginning of the year and then with the investment bank market in the first semester and then the corporate market as a whole with not too much dynamism. But we ended the year very satisfied with the results that we reached, and the bank is prepared to navigate in different scenarios. We're ready to grow. And we believe that with the market -- with the help of the market and this perspective, we will have a very good 2024. So we wait and we expect you on the next calls, and thank you very much, everyone.

Thank you, Lulia, Borejo for your presentation. Thank you very much all of you for your presentation. The presentation is already available on our site of Investor Relations and the video of the transmission will be in our YouTube channel. If you want to listen in audio, you can also listen on Spotify ABC Brasil. And any other question -- we are available to answer any questions you might have. See you later. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]