Bank of India Limited (BANKINDIA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Bank of India Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us today Mr. A.K. Das, MD and CEO; Mr. P.R. Rajagopal, Executive Director; Mr. K.V. Raghavendra, General Manager, Finance; Mr. Shankar Sen, Chief Financial Officer; and other senior executives of the bank. I now hand the conference over to Mr. A.K. Das, MD and CEO , thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much. Good afternoon to all the analysts and [ friends ] who have joined this conference call on our Q2 numbers. We extend to all of you a hearty welcome, and thanks for taking your time. Most of you, I believe, are aware of the numbers and the necessary papers have been submitted, the presentations and the numbers. And you all have seen the moment in the market also today. It was quite encouraging. Market response was very positive to our Q2 numbers, which we believe are -- predominantly is driven by main reasons: that is -- one is the improvement in our operating efficiency, which was triggered by reasonably good growth in the top line, especially in the RAM segment and improved net interest income both Q-on-Q and on sequential basis and margins. And as a result, our operating profit sequentially went up by 9% and Q-on-Q, it was 26% and net profit almost had 100% growth Q-on-Q, although it was less than Q1 profit after tax. The second major highlight is about the way we have addressed asset quality issues. Our gross NPL ratio and net NPL ratios they have been brought down significantly. And also in absolute numbers, we find the gross NPL -- net NLP numbers on a progressive decline. PCR at about 88%. And this year featured certain challenges for us, especially Q1, where we saw relatively dry spell, especially in the realm of recovery. But Q2, we have been able to put it back to some extent. And our cash recovery and our position in Q2 has been almost more than double that of in Q1. This -- we had to do in a very strategic way, so that we can recover as much as possible the moment we saw some moment at the ground post-COVID. Secondly, if you look at the provision numbers also, we got about INR 2,300 crores provision made out of our operating profit as compared to INR 1,500 crores plus in Q1. And the major part -- of course, its core provision, but added to that is another INR 783 crore, which we have provided over and above what is mandated. This INR 783 crore included certain accounts, which are subduties that are [ Supreme ] court orders or the 7/6 circular. And also, SMA-0, 1 and 2 accounts, which we have provided moratorium. You may recollect, in Q1 when we shared our numbers, we had mentioned about INR 1,034 crores, 10% we have done in provision in the SMA-0, 1, 2. Now we have done similar provision this quarter also. This will give us the benefit of observing future shocks, if any, for many of the accounts. #2, this will also give us a good leeway to write-back our provisions already made. So anyway, we have endeavored to safeguard Q3 and Q4 from any kind of possible shock. So this is, in a nutshell -- is a high point of our balance sheet this time. And because of this additional provisioning, I think our -- but for that, our profit -- net profit would have been much higher. But we -- as a prudent measure, we decided to go for providing for these accounts so that Q3 and Q4, the impact -- any kind of adverse impact on our P&L will be minimum. And this is in all about Q2 numbers. Our margins have improved, although they are below 3%, but sequentially, they have improved. And despite passing on rate cuts to our -- the huge movement of our cliental base. And we are sure that we will only improve this margin further. And our business growth also has been ahead of the industry curve. We have done even much better than the industry in business growth, almost in all segments. So going forward, I believe we got a target of about 8% to 10% growth in deposits and about 7.5% growth in advances. That's our terminal target for this current financial year. And as regards to asset quality, we aim to come below 12% in gross NPL ratio. And our net NPL ratio will be grow 2.5%. That's the March '21 guidance from our side. With this brief introduction of our numbers, I will invite your questions, your suggestions and guidance pertaining to Q2 numbers. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of have Bhavik Shah from B&K Securities.

Sir -- please, sir, can you give us the collection efficiency for the month of September and October overall and across segments?

Bhavik, the collection efficiency, if you see our -- no, it is -- it has got a correlation to the slippage ratio that we have. And in the last 2 quarters, our slippage ratio was around 0.08%. Even if you factor in the accounts that would have otherwise been marked down and not marked down, though our slippage ratio is around 1.14%. So the collection efficiency accordingly when calculated is almost 86%, okay?

Sir, sorry to interrupt. So, sir, by collection efficiency, I mean, demand raised for the month of September.

Yes that's what I'm referring to, Bhavik. I understand that. And see, what happens is, now post the moratorium, the September demand is raised. What happens is, no, it is also getting reflected because I'm just trying to give you numbers. You are able to verify that. So what happened in the case of our bank is, we had around 66% of the loan book under moratorium at a particular binding term in August, okay? Now it has come down to almost 33% in moratorium terms. So in September when demand was raised, okay, so there are 2 things. So slippage actually was technical slippages were there to the extent of 0.08%, okay? So if you calculate, even say 10 bps down, so the collection efficiency at that point in -- was 90%. So what I have done is I've actually added what otherwise would have been NPA in terms of -- in the absence of the Supreme Court stake. So that would add up to another 4, 5 basis points. So our collection efficiency has been around 85%, and it continues to be so. Historically it looked this. It continues to be so, okay?

Okay. And sir, of your exec moratorium of 33%, so what share of customers haven't paid any EMI since starting up moratorium?

See, that demand is raised. See, what happened is no -- I'm referring to this 33%. We thought, actually, now the amount being due. The amounts that were otherwise due in the month of July, August and September was paid by all these people. So the September demands in -- the remaining accounts, it got postponed and back-ended in the case of EMIs, okay? Some of them got converted into ATM. So the demand for September will come only in -- we raise normally demand on tenth of every month or so, so it will get credited in 31st of October. So we don't -- we did not see much slippages in 31st of October, and that comes to a very small amount, which I have already told you saying that around INR 900 crores or so, which is otherwise NPL around that date of moratorium continues to be so. Could you make out what I told you?

Okay. So answered, or? Sir, broadly, yes. So sir, I understood that 8 bps would be the technical slippages which have for -- due to Supreme court. Sir, can you quantify in number?

Number of what? Number of...

Advances as of -- well absolute amount, I mean?

Absolute amount in terms of slippage, you're talking about?

Yes.

Slippage that's what I told you around INR 950 crores.

INR 950 crores. Okay.

So that if you calculate back and also, the GNPA levels also would only go by, say, another 10 bps, not beyond that.

Okay. And sir, so an additional provisioning that you made during the quarter, INR 783 crore. I understand those will be mainly specific provisioning against SMA-1, 2 accounts, 7/6 Circular and court order. Sir, from how much SMA-1 or 2 accounts do you expect the deals slip immediately? Some definitely would be the slippages, technical stoppages, but from the rest as in any ballpark figure?

See, we did not see much slippages even during the time because we have -- I have told you last time when we did meet -- whether we met in the first quarter results, I told you that they have done extensive study of the stress at the borrower side, borrowing, okay? So what we have actually found out was whatever SMA-2 slippages that we normally have around 8%, 9%, that continues to be so, with or without the COVID stress. So that continues to be there. Our SMA-2 book is around INR 2,500 crores or so -- sorry, INR 2,000 crores now. So INR 2,000 crores, then around 8% of that, you can calculate slight a bit. That has been our slippage, and it is not going to be more than this.

And in this about INR 1,600 crores were not [indiscernible]

Yes.

Okay. And sir, any restructuring requests that you have received so far? And how much restructuring do you expect?

Restructuring. What is happening is, it's a very typical book. If you see the slides, you must have already seen our slides. We have done around 46% in A and A-plus rated book. And we have got around 27% in government book. So that constituted around 73% of the book, which doesn't require moratorium, okay? And the remaining book is -- now 14% is small loans and the remaining are all -- it will be -- and it will be minus 2%. In that, I don't know if you see that we have got around INR 5,000 crores demand for restructuring that comes so much, say in these -- the standard book we saw, say, 3 lakh crores for standard book to INR 5,000 crores. That comes to around 6%, okay? So that's what the demand is now. So I don't see much restructuring happening in the book as such return because of the nature of the loan book we have.

Okay. Focused -- I think those...

So for retail and MSME, I have already told you most of it -- as they don't require restructuring because most of them are operated at each [indiscernible] our FITL are non-CGL loans. And so they have not come forward for any restructuring effort because of the civil issues. Okay?

Understood, sir. And sir just last question, sir. Sir, how much has been disbursed so far under the CGL scheme, the [ CLGS ]?

[indiscernible] it's about...

[indiscernible] INR 5,600 crores.

you can take a ballpark of around INR 5,000 crores. INR 4,800 crores.

You can take it as INR 5,000 crores.

Yes.

INR 5,000 crores have been disbursed?

Year-on-year.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Sneha Ganatra from Subkhan Ventures.

Three questions. I just wanted to know. I wanted to know how are we seeing overall recovery, if there will be upgrades for the second half. Are we seeing any recovery uptick on the NCLT or under NPL? My second question is, what would be the credit cost guidance for the second half? And any slippages run rate we can expect for the second half?

Credit cost guidance as far as it goes, I think we're at 2.33%, it was 1.74% earlier. And because of additional provisioning, as I mentioned in the beginning, it is 2.33%. Our aim is to bring it down below 2% by the year-end. And NCLT, out of total INR 56,200 crore, about INR 39,000 crores, almost 71% were in NCLT. The proceedings have been very slow or it has been stalled sort of for the most part of first half. So that way, we could recover only about INR 150 crore in the first half. Second half, we are expecting resolution resulting in about INR 700 crore of cash circulating and NPA reduction of about INR 3000 crores to INR 3,500 crores. This part, ARC sale, which was not happening for various reasons. We have started -- we have seen some interest in some of the assets. So likely we have kind of estimated a sale of roughly INR 600 crores. So in all, the aim is to affect NPA reduction to the tune of INR 12,000 crores, of which we have almost done INR 5,800 crores and remaining 2 quarters, this Q3 and Q4, we will try to bring it down there under INR 6,000 crore.

On this, you have considered the -- whatever the slippages we are expecting from the restructuring book on, sir?

No, that is not there. There is no significant portion. There are no concerns that way restructuring book because we are already provided for the -- those restructured books upfront, 15%. So there is no problem. And as Mr. Rajagopal was just now saying there is not much of an interest on so far in the structuring part also. So we have not received any proposal. So that way, we are quite cushioned off -- well cushioned from those kind of stress.

Okay. And my last question, any plan for the capital raising or any tranches of any of your subsidiary that's relevant?

No. Subsidiaries, there are no plans or not as such. But capital raising, yes, we have got Board approval last month. In last August, we have got Board approval for about INR 8,000 crores of capital. We are reasonably capitalized, but we again, when the loan growth starts picking up, we will require capital, more of. So by end of December or early January, we are planning to go for it through initially 81 instruments and thereafter, QIP. Adding up to it may be around INR 2,500 crores.

So if take to account [indiscernible] leverage?

Pardon?

How much leverage we are turning to this?

About INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,500.

Okay. Okay. Any target for the margins?

Margins will be a little above 2.75%. 2.75% or thereabout because margin pressure will continue. I think slowly, the paradigm of margin is changing in India with a lot of requests and advisories to pass on the rate cuts and all. So naturally, the margins uptick, it will be on a limited scale. It will be great if we can retain the margins also.

And how are you seeing the overall deposit reactions in [indiscernible]?

Deposit reaction is very bouyant. And in case of many, many banks. So -- and for Bank of India, we have grown much faster than the industry as far as deposit growth is concerned. Our deposit growth domestic year-on-year is 22%. Tie it against banking system, 10.5%. This is as of September 25, in which this data is available. [ Mid-year ] deposit YTD from April till September is 10%. And soon, it's 5.5%. So liquidity wise, there is no issue. We got a strong liability franchise to keep us growing. And CASA, we are maintaining the June level also at about 39% plus to a INR 7,000 crores lakhs.

Okay. And my last question is how are you seeing the treasury income to panning out going ahead, considering the you remained stable at this level?

Yes, I'll hand you over to our Treasury head. Yes, hurry.

Yes. The [indiscernible] in the subsequent quarters and we will use the remaining...

Are you able hear him out?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Okay.

The remaining behind, we expect that the amount would be similar in the next 2 quarters as well.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ashok Ajmera from Ajcon Global Services.

Congratulations to you for yet again a good quarter in spite of the challenges, which is being faced by the banking industry. The net profit is of course impacted because of the very high provisioning, which had been done, the provisions have gone up tremendously, I mean, INR 766 crores to INR 2,134 crores, which I may call it as a prudent measure taken by you. Sir, I have a couple of, sort of, questions and some clarification. During the depreciation on investment of INR 252 crores, can the treasury GM can -- I mean or can you throw some light on it? Is it in this good times, what is the depreciation? Why the depreciation come in the investment of INR 252 crores?

Yes. This depreciation is not the result of diminishing in value of defect. It is basically the additional provision, which we have required to make on security request. That will be the net present value level [ diminishing ]. That will be the major component of that INR 280 crores.

Okay. So it is mainly on the provision party on the G-sec, which you are holding?

Not G-sec.

Not the G-sec...

Security receipts.

[ Foreign Language ]

Yes, yes, yes. So everything was positive. This point was only looking a little negative price or maybe?

Yes, actually, well invesment [Foreign Language] segment provision [Foreign Language]

Sir, now can you give some -- throw some light on this -- these NCLT future course of action because we have got almost about INR 39,000 crore of -- on NCLT out of the total INR 56,232 crores of the NPA, I mean, the amounts are blocked there. So what is the immediate next 2 quarters do you look at -- I mean, how do you look at it from the -- how much recovery can we expect from these accounts? And also the return of accounts?

In NCLT, we are expecting around a reduction in -- of roughly around INR 4,000 crores. And out of which, INR 700 crores will be cash recovery and others was -- by other mode. And it's all different when the things start rolling because a lot of data are in advanced stage. So we are expecting next 2 quarters there -- Q3 and Q4, there would be a recovery -- good recovery for NCLT also.

And the recovery from the return of account is only INR 411 crores -- so the write-offs are INR 411 crores on that, some color on that? For the future, I have again INR 3,505 crore in the last quarter?

Last quarter, what we have done is in the write-offs, we have done a prudential write-off of some of the big accounts, right? Typically, we had some of the corporate accounts, which are already there in the NCLT. So we have done a Prudential Framework of those accounts, okay? Now this time, whatever write-off you are seeing, we have not done any write-off is basically a calculated write-off due to work years that are being given. So whatever cash recovery that you see on the part of the column, whatever is written -- to be written off, pursuant on OTS taken is being reflected in the write-off [ there ].

Okay. And sir, going forward, I mean, you have given the target of the 7% of the advances, which was, I think, reduced from 8% to 7% and bring down the gross increase is 12% and net NPA to around 2%. So with this, you need to say that the final amount of the gross NPA will come down to almost about, like, from this current INR 56,000 crore to almost about INR 52,000 crore at the end of March?

That is what we are aiming at. It depends on so many other things. But given a particular assumptions, we are aiming at this. It, again, depends on the dynamic situation. But this is our ultimate objective.

Yes. Because if you add the 7% growth, the advances becomes more like INR 36,000 crore. And on that, if you take out the ratio, this comes down to INR 52,300 crore. And the net NPA comes down to INR 8,738 crore, right, which would be a very good situation that's...

That is what we are aiming at actually. We hope -- I think we'll see good -- NCLT holds the key now. Where out of INR 39,000 crores, wherever we have believed it's about INR 6,000 crores, about INR 4,000 crores remaining from RBI list 1 and 2 and lited all by other banks. We are actively in meeting with them. So as far as possible, we are trying to resolve those issues.

Sir, my last question is on -- because I could not hear the answer of this first question what you saw on the [indiscernible] are. What is the situation on this restructuring front, the new window, which has been allowed to restructure by 6th August circular, what kind of inquiries are we getting? And what is the kind of message, which we are getting from your borrowers? Are they -- I mean, how much -- like in the moratorium period, the whole amount was INR 156,000 crores. The people opted moratorium in those days. Now similarly, for restructuring, any idea how much -- not number of accounts, but at least amount-wise?

See, mainly the -- one thing is very sure as there are only small and medium segment accounts are there. You would have heard in other banks also similar trend continues. We had initially drawn up eligible list of about 310,000 accounts. And of which about 70%, 75% are in the retail and MSME loan and involving an amount of about INR 24,000 crores. Now since the process began, as and there, we have got requests from only about 500 accounts. The two corporate only very less, 34 accounts, involving about INR 5,000 crores and 474 noncorporate, INR 62 crore. I believe one reason could be, people are in wait-and-watch mode, number one. Number two, since a lot of emergency credit lines and other options were given to the customers, probably, they don't see a need for showing interest in restructuring of the accounts. This appears to be the case, but again, we have to watch it.

So considering the 10% provision because majority of them are non MSME, as you say, INR 5,000 crores. We can just take the INR 500 crores additional so still the time is there until 31st of December and then finally to implement up to March. So can we take it something around INR 10,000 crores to INR 12,000 crores total restructuring?

[Foreign Language] I don't think. [Foreign Language]

I'm trying to judge the performance around March 31, basically because so that we can arrive at a very good number to advise to the people.

Yes, I agree. Only one thing I would like to tell you is the manner in which this particular scheme from RBI has come. It is not very attractive in terms of people coming forward for restructuring. They would -- they have already availed rescheduling in many cases, okay? Now you have the situation in the mid-corporate and MSME advances where margin relaxations are permitted, okay? Cover period relaxations are permitted. So all those things are permitted under the old circular. And they are not rated as restructuring. So many of them have availed have that dispensation under the whole circular, that is May -- April 27 and May circulars, okay? So the 6/7 circular aspect is not going to really gain traction so far as my view is concerned. So as handed, the inquiry is around 1.6%, which we have already told you of the total advances -- standard advances. So I don't think it will reach any number that you are suggesting because you are talking in terms of almost doubling the size in the restructuring portfolio. Restructuring portfolio, what we have will continue to be there. Of course, MSME restructuring will continue if there is a requirement for MSME restructuring because window is available.

And sir, in this restructuring, you are strictly following that Kamath committee guidelines about the ratio, those 5 important ratios?

Yes, yes, yes.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Sushil Choksey from Indus Equity.

Congratulations to Bank of India team. So it's very clear that Bank of India has done a lot of conservation, consolidation and now the clarity is emerging where the road map is for future -- with the perspective of 12 to 24 months, first, where Indian economy will have clarity. In view of all the proactive actions, what is your guidance? You've already indicated the growth path in terms of advances and deposits. What would be the outlook on treasury, credit cost, domestic banking, international banking?

Credit cost as a total, it will be softening actually, some -- because we have done a lot of provisions, PCR being 88%. So credit cards can go only one way. That is downward. Our aim is to keep it below 2%.

Sir, but we are already at 1.67% right now in the...

We are at 2.33%, I think.

Annualized..

Annualized?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. But -- so based on the first half results, and second half credit cost may be much lower, don't you think you'll outsmart that 2% guidance by a mile?

Right. Yes, yes, yes.

Okay. What is our thought process on treasury, sir?

Treasury, the forward-looking stance continues and softening because a lot of our intervention is there. And we believe that for the access till March '21, the rate cycle will continue in the same direction. And it will augment the bank's performance.

I see the yield as on today at around 5.85%, how are we positioned in the treasury gains? They're [ quickening ] first half or second half would be superior to first half?

See, the we expect to remain in the same size in those [indiscernible] [ 50 ] banks. Depending on all various business in the market. As of now, there are no mark-to-market -- related mark-to-market losses. And if we use [ total lever ], we'll have opportunity to book capital gain. In fact, we have done well in the third quarter also, and the numbers in the third quarter would be in line with the performance we have shown in the past 2 quarters.

Right, but we should be sitting on a huge sum of unrealized gain. It is a question of syndicating a bank about no provisions are required.

See the book -- part of the book is in HTM, part of it is in HAM assets, and it depends upon the construct of the book.

Yes. So can you give a little the -- any color on that, please?

Correct. That's the [Foreign Language]

Your HAM and activity on treasury side? On the corporate book, consistent with the government securities.

See our total investment book at close to INR 1,8, 00,000, of which INR 43,000 crores [indiscernible] are non-SLR and the rest in SLR. SLR the -- of the INR 37,1,00,000 we have close to INR 1,00,000 in the next -- including next year. So only INR 37,000 crores is susceptible to any kind of market risk. There, we manage our operation and we [indiscernible] that even if they use more up by, say, 100 basis points, there would not be any major mark-to-mark hit to our balance sheet. That is what I am trying to [ get ].

Sir my next question on digitization, which I've been asking you for the last 2 quarters. Any road map or guidance on digitization of the Bank of India, which has big progressed post-COVID having digitized ratings a bigger, good driver of businesses that work from home as well as customers' demand?

Yes, that's a great question. Of course, a favorite question for all of us. What we have done is we just floated RFP for end-to-end digitalization, so including the -- both credit as well as in the customer acquisition. The process will be completed by month end, and then the rollout will start happening from January onwards. 9 months is the lead time. We have done by end of October. So you'll find that completely is on par to another facility. There are some revamped, which shall mark an impact by the second or third quarter of '21, '22.

Great. And secondly, overall [indiscernible] question on your asking for number your experience with loss and [indiscernible] on your customers [indiscernible] comfortable despite of what they [indiscernible]

[indiscernible] clients that we have a good basis for [indiscernible] own customers [indiscernible] customers with respect to [indiscernible] look at to how they should be given products for them and make them for the bank. And that actually has to be -- has to [indiscernible] today. We've got [indiscernible] good [indiscernible] of these micro loans and the amount [indiscernible] we have almost quite a substantial portfolio there. Good margins [indiscernible] changed [indiscernible] lower production for us at [indiscernible] Good margin loans. We are also looking at typically competing micro [indiscernible] micro customer [indiscernible] co-lending and the time we spend with them and then acquire more customers at that level because 2 things that is required to that infrastructure ultimately [indiscernible] that we should be able to offer the service and then we'll be able to give them the turnaround time that are world-class. So both things will happen simultaneously. We'll have a digital play in place by second quarter of next year, and then we'll try to target that segment of customers. Who are in the ticket size of 5 lakhs to 10 lakhs and 10 lakhs and below that kind of customers, where we'll have volumes and we'll have margins also.

So does it mean also that co-lending policy, which got announced by RBI yesterday? We will do it only after your digitization in the near term or it will be...

No, no. That is -- see, today, what is happening is we have got only one end of the model digitized. Like typically, we have the credit underwriting digitized at our end, okay? We don't have the lead generation and then the customer interaction digitized fully.

But as per the policy, I thought RBI now that will be left to the NBFC and the bank will become a co-lending partner.

Yes, yes. So once what happens is now this co-lending will start now. But it will pick up great speed once we have enter in digitalization in place because of the [indiscernible] systems...

so my -- sir, sorry to interrupt, but my question is are we ready now to do it or we'll do it only post...

We are ready to do the partnerships now and the full-scale mobilization of the business will happen in the second quarter of '21, '22, okay?

Okay. Secondly is the Bank of India is huge scale, a lot of activities like capital market, trading capability, which has an earlier base in the Western region in India and specifically Bombay. How are you trying to gain back that position?

This is what is precisely what I'm looking at. Basically what happens is we have lost huge amount of our business, especially to ICICI and HDFC of the world. And they offer most of the settlement facilities and clearing member facilities that they offer over there, which we couldn't match because of a lack of technology. Okay. So once we bring in the entire digital technologies and put in place, so automatically, the customers will start flowing back today. The very curious case that we have is most of these [ current ] market customers, they have exposures with us and have settlement accounts with HDFC, unfortunately, because I'm not able to give surveys because of the lack of technology and lack of digital play.

Sir, I would -- just...

So I would ask the customers, but they are the my loyalty customer of HDFC, which I would like to change. So the rev asset customers will continue to be our customer -- our market customers. However, they have also become our liability customers once we have the digital card in place.

We will be reversing our position, which was other title holders in 2000 back in 2021, where capital market was concerned, that's what I would assume from your [ speech ]?

Yes, yes, sure. Sure. That's something the commitment that you can have from us.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jai Mundhra from B&K Securities.

Sir, I have a couple of questions. One is on your notes to account number 7. There, you have given the disclosure on SMA/overdue category, where the moratorium deferment was extended. And there, the amount is INR 64,598 crore -- INR 64,599 crores. So is this the balance as of September 30? Or this is a balance as of August end?

[Foreign Language] So in that number 7, just 1 minute, Mr. Jai.

Yes.

Yes. Mundhra, this particular path of it, this is on a September ideas.

As of end of September?

Yes. What is relevant over there is the serial number two, okay? If you see out there, most of these moratoriums, no, they got really benefited out of this extension of EMIs and FITLs, no capital -- interest capitalization accounts. That's what is correct. Yes.

So that -- now the line #2 is these accounts are already 90 DPD or...

They are not 90 DPD, Mundhra. See, what is happening is the circular came much later. The [indiscernible] barter has happened with the RBI circular [Foreign Language], even though the relevant date for implementation of this moratorium was 1st March, okay, the circular came much, much later. So by that time, the 28 February accounts have already slipped and began NPA at that point in time, okay? So whatever accounts that was there in 60-day DPD and barterial DPD were recurring. And the asset classification benefit was given to 60-day DPD accounts as of February 28, 2020, which otherwise would become NPA as of March 31, 2020, okay? So which otherwise, NPA has on that date that 90 days past due as of 28th February 2020 were already marked down before moratorium was extended.

Great. Okay. And then now, sir, if I were to look at the collection efficiency, I mean, now every loan account is supposed to pay, right, for the month of September and for the month of October.

Yes.

Now within this, what was the quantum of loan that was raised? I mean that -- I mean, let's say, INR 10,000 crore was supposed to pay for the month of September and also October? And how many actually did pay?

Demand risen [ there ]. Let's not...

See, what is happening is most of these cases, the demand gets raised after 31st of October. Now there is a time available till 10th of November for payment, okay? Because most of these accounts where moratorium was extended over 30-day DPD and 60-day DPD accounts, okay? And then standard accounts, they continue to have the overflow. When we gave the moratorium at that point in time, it was around 66%, okay? And now it has come down over a period of 30% to 33%. And there is a substantial distance. So when we actually ran the notional random NPA classification. We got around some figure of around INR 5,600 crores or so. So there, we looked at. And then we -- when we actually got into each of those accounts, most of the payments have come to us, okay? And now it is getting reflected in the slippage ratio that we have actually shown in the September results. If you see the slippage ratio, it is around 0.08%. It's roughly...

And it's not [indiscernible] relevant number because what I'm asking is, people who have missed 30 days, this will not be reflected in your change in slippages. [indiscernible]

No, no. I'll -- no, no. I'll tell you what is happening. That's what I'm saying, again, I'm coming back. I understand your question. I'm not talking of standstill out here. I'm talking of the notional running of an account where 30-day DPD payment has been missed, okay? So then we calculate around INR 5,600 crore is something that we have found that most of them have -- are falling in 30-day DPD and 60-day DPD bucket, okay? So if you see the numbers, we have around -- you can calculate, you also have around INR 9,200 crores is the asset classification benefit given to us, okay? Now out of that INR 5,600 crores is the number that we have got 30 days, 60-day DPD, that follow-up has to happen, okay? So within that, also, you can see out of INR 5,600 crores, we already recorded on INR 3,000 crores plus. The payments have come. That is getting reflected automatically in the numbers that we have given you. So in INR 5,600 crores, I don't see a great -- this on collection issues in terms of payments. There are 2 things happening on those [ loans ]. One is basically, we have given FITL, where the payment due date have been postponed, okay? Another, we have given the EMI extensions where it got back-ended. So the actual EMI this remaining INR 5,600 crore would start only in October. See, until September, they are available. So the installment payment would start from October only. So the demand gets raised now and the payment has to come now. Understood my point?

Yes, yes. This point is understood. But I'm asking for the entire bank, sir. You are saying that for the entire bank, someone would have come in due on first, someone would have wanted on 10th, 15th, whatever. So for the month of September and October, how many people are paying on time or maybe, let's say, with the grace of 7 days or whichever.

Yes. That I expect no -- what we call in our bank, we call it overflow, okay?

Right.

Okay. When standstill is operated, we call it overflow. So that overflow numbers I don't have readily. I can supply you separately.

Sure. Okay. And second question is, sir, on restructuring. I think, [indiscernible] mentioned that around INR 5,000 crores had come for restructuring request so far. And so if you can tell us, sir, I mean how many accounts are there in that INR 5,000 crores? Mainly corporate side? And does this include, let us say -- I would suspect this would include future Shapoorji Pallonji, NEPC...

No, no. Hey, hey, don't speculate like that. MD sir has already told you that in terms of numbers, there's around 34 accounts for corporate. When we say corporate, it is INR 25 crores plus. It is basically the regulatory definition of cat rate and retail. So our INR 24 crores, INR 25 crores plus is what 34 accounts we've has got. In these accounts, we don't have the accounts that you have just named. Because most of them, actually, they have not given OTR because they're have to pass the master of OTR in the consortium, right?

Okay. But -- so these are mainly your sole banking account kind of area?

Yes, yes. Mostly, small accounts, INR 25 crores and above. [Foreign Language] whether they are interested or we are that interested, we are not very clear.

And this is the corporate side, right? INR 5,000 crores there, may be retail also?

No, no. Retail -- yes, of course, retail is a very small number. It's around INR 60 crores.

Right. Okay. INR 650 crores.

Not. INR 60 crores, only INR 60 crores.

Okay, only INR 60 crores. Okay. And so okay. So -- and this, sir, what is your rough sense of this INR 5,000 crores would be roughly, let's say, 1.5% of your loan book?

Yes, that's correct, 1.6%. I have already told you, yes.

Right. But any -- because of, let us say, there may be, as you said, people may be in wait-and-watch mode. What would be this number? I mean, if you were to provide a range, let us say, this INR 5,000 crores as of as of December end, based on your expectation of people in corporate wanted to get restructuring, how much -- how big can this number be?

See, the point is no. I have actually been looking at these numbers and how the people will react going forward also. My view is something different. My view is most of them, they would not be willing to come for restructuring under the 6th August circular because it is possible that we may get them restructured into the differential framework and no -- 7th June circular of RBI and other measures like typically a repayment plan they may ask are -- they may simply ask for reschedulement. I don't think, no, there will be any uptick in the number that we have provided. We have also not really looked at the viability of these proposals that they have given in terms of the -- because I don't know whether they have really understood the downside of restructuring under the 6th August circular. So the borrowers start understanding that no downside of the circular, they may not -- these numbers may not be there at all because there are a lot of issues in terms of how there is no concept of sustainable debt. There is no concept of long-term moratorium. Moratorium is very limited to only 2 years. So there are a lot of issues in terms of 6th August, the expanse of the circular that RBI has given. So mostly people will be willing to go into the Prudential Framework, certainly may get restructured. So at that point in time, consideration will happen. So I don't think -- not if there will be a huge uptick in this number. Because the asset classification benefit one gets under 6th August circular is very, very stringent. So many accounts may not fulfill that criteria at all in the first place. Apart from that, you have Kamath committee numbers, which is much more stringent than your Tandon committee and [ Shri ] committee, okay? So it will be very difficult.

And sir, this future group, and what is our exposure? I mean because there are a lot of...

Our exposure is around INR 1,400 crores on the asset side. Around INR 625 crore on the investment side.

Okay. That's it. Okay. And sir, on this notes to account number 12, wherein, I think these are the accounts, which are already NPA, right? INR 10,000 crores. But you may have provided -- you cannot refer them to NPL, but is that the way this INR 10,443 crores?

Yes. This resolution time -- I see, most of them are power assets, okay? So these power assets, you remember, there was some other scheme and all that, okay? Under that scheme, these accounts are being returned, and they have been given extension of that 180-day recurring period because of the COVID. So within that period, if they don't get resolved, automatically, they will go to NCLT. Otherwise, I have to provide that 35%, which is much more stringent, Okay? Under the Prudential Framework circular of 7th June.

Right. And last question, sir, from my side. I mean you have this restructured -- standard restructured within that infra at around, let's say, INR 1,600 crores, of which power is INR 1,400 crores. Can this account be eligible for onetime restructuring, I mean...

I mean, yes. I don't think they'll come for restructuring here, my dear. See, this INR 1,400 crores is 1 account that I think, no, I cannot name that, of course, in the forum. So this is account that, no, automatically continues, and it's a performing account as of now. So it will get upgraded going forward.

[Operator Instructions] If there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. A.K. Das, MD and CEO, for closing comments.

Yes. Thank you very much to all analyst friends for interacting in detail about various aspects and minor details also. So it is our pleasure. If there is anything else required, we are -- we'll be happy to share that with you. And our department will be in touch with you. I think any further information required, we'll be too happy to share that with you. Once again, thank you very much. Keep guiding us, keep supporting us. I wish you all a Happy Diwali in advance. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Bank of India, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.