BCL Industries Limited (524332) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to BCL Industries Limited Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. [ Vatsal Vinci ] from Choice Equity Broking Private Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Rishi. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Choice Equity Broking, I welcome to the Q1 FY '24 quarter results conference call of BCL Industries Limited. I also take this opportunity to welcome the senior management team. On today's call, we have with us Mr. Kushal Mittal, the Joint Managing Director. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date the date of this call. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. I will now invite Mr. Kushal Mittal for the opening remarks to be followed by Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. A warm welcome to the earnings call for the first quarter of the financial year 2024. Mostly, I would like to thank our host, Choice Broking for hosting this earnings conference. Let me start by giving you the key financial highlights for this quarter. Total income for the quarter of INR 430 crores which grew by approx 14% on a year-on-year basis. EBITDA for the quarter was around INR 41 crores, which increased by 31% year-on-year, with EBITDA margin at 9.59%. The net profit was around INR 20 crores which increased by 12% year-on-year, with the PAT margin standing at 4.6%. Let me clarify that out of the total income mentioned above, Svaksha Distillery, our subsidiary, generated a current income for the quarter of around INR 96 crores, and EBITDA was around INR 16 crores, which is an improvement from the previous quarter. Now coming on to the operational highlights. Starting with the Distillery segment. In Q1 '24, the Distillery revenue grew by over 100% to INR 197 crores with volume growth of around 94% to 32,808 KL. The EBITDA for this segment was -- has grown by 113% to INR 37 crores, with EBITDA margins at 15.13%. The year-over-year growth was primarily driven by the sales from the newly commissioned Svaksha Distillery facility. The company also commissioned its 200 KLPD ethanol dedicated plant in July at Bhatinda. The total cost of the project was around INR 205 crores and should give the company revenues of around INR 550 crores per annum moving forward. The company is experiencing an increase in demand for this country liquor brands in Punjab and then forecasted to sell over 1 million cases in this financial year, which is more than double of that compared to the previous year. On the CapEx front, the work for 100 KLPD ethanol only plant at Svaksha Distillery is ongoing. The company has received the necessary clearances for expansion, has placed all the major machinery orders. Also to hedge against the rising fuel cost, the company commissioned boiler fired on paddy straw around with its 200 KLPD Distillery in Bhatinda. This will help the company in diversifying its [indiscernible] need its paddy straw is one of the toughest biomass to utilize and then very few boilers are in the market paddy straw. This boiler qualifies the state government scheme and GST on the CapEx of the boiler that will be refunded. The CapEx on the boiler was around INR 40 crores. In the Edible Oil segment, there was a sharp drop in Edible Oil prices globally, which has led to a decrease in sales and profitability from the Edible Oil this quarter. The company managed its inventories to avoid any losses as many of its peers suffered losses during this quarter. Lastly, in the Real Estate segment, the company was able to liquidate lands in the previous quarter and regular sales are ongoing. The funds from the Real Estate sector will be utilized to decrease the debt of the company moving forward. With that said, I would now like to open the floor for any questions.

[Operator Instructions] We have a first question from the line of Bala Murli of Oman Investment Advisors.

Regarding the Distillery, so in the stand-alone entity, you have seen a drop in margin. So what is the reason of that [indiscernible].

What is the reason for?

Drop in margins of the stand-alone [indiscernible] button by inventor in Distillery segment.

Yes. See, one reason, as I mentioned, this financial year, we are increasing our country liquor sales and we're moving aggressively in the sector to gain a portfolio in the market. So for that, we have to price our products very competitively. So one of the reasons is due to an increase in the P&L where profit margins are slightly lower at start as compared to bulk sales. But we're hoping that in the coming time, we'll be able to gain a stronger foothold in the market and we'll be able to take advantage of that, [indiscernible] business as well. So one reason is that. And the second reason is due to an increase in the prices of grain. So if you look on year-on-year, I don't see there is a decline. But yes, quarter-on-quarter, there is a decline, and these 2 are the reasons for that.

Okay. And regarding this FCI surplus size restrictions. So maybe we are going for maize and only damage for grains. And there is an announcement from the government also there is a INR 5 to INR 6 increase in ethanol price -- purchase price. So how this is going to impact our business or whether that's a INR 5 to INR 6 so we can -- that can contribute to the bottom line or have any pressure on the raw material procurement also because of this surplus size procurement shortage.

The surplus size supplier being stocked has come as a shock to the entire industry. And everyone has had their supplies halted due to this. And we do have -- our supplies impacted due to this. But now with the increase in prices, we are able to shift our ethanol towards maize and we, as a company, have always been saying that the future lies with maize, and we had good technology to be able to process maize. So when compared to our peers, I think we'll fare off better because of our expertise with maize processing and our ability to shift towards maize very quickly. But overall, I don't see our margins getting any better with this price increase because the prices of maize in the market have also increased, so the EBITDA margins won't improve any further. And the next crop is not until October, November. So it is -- it has become a little unpredictable on where the maize prices will go until then.

And just a follow-up on that. So even there is no chance of improvement in margins, but because of this changeover, I mean, there's no impact on margins, there is no chances of decrease in margin for Distillery. And one more thing on the...

I didn't -- I think what I said, let me correct you there, is that margins of the Distillery business, I don't see them going up much further than 18%. But for the decrease also, I haven't made a statement yet. I think it's a situation that's changing on a daily basis. So I wouldn't want to comment on it as of now.

Okay. Okay. And lastly, on this boiler, we have commissioned. So earlier, we're expecting that there is a saving of around INR 2 per liter. So I think we are on track of that. So we can have any advantage of that in the bottom line from this quarter or month, sir?

Yes, of course. See the things like the paddy straw boiler and being able to process maize will help us be more efficient as compared to our peers, have better margins as compared to our peers. So that will help because the supply of FDIs rise being stocked has become a shock to the industry. But once -- see, now the way I look at it is now it's an open playing field that you have to procure from the market. And this is where our company's expertise in the grain sector will be of advantage to us.

Okay. And lastly, on Svaksha, is there any chances of the improvement in the volume revenue from the -- as of this quarter, we have done INR 95 crores. Usually it will be 200 KLPD, we can do around INR 150 crores, sir.

In Svaksha, what currently we're experiencing that new excise policy in Bengal, ENA demand is not as robust as it used to be. There are 2 reasons for that: one, the prices of country liquor have been increased significantly in Bengal, which has led to a decline in sale of country liquor in the state; and secondly, the government has imposed an export fees for ENA going out of state. So that has decreased the demand from states out of Bengal. But we expect this to get better in the coming months. We also have this export fee based off and once the temperatures starts decreasing, the consumption of spirit goes up. So we expect this to improve. But for now, there is -- the demand for ENA is not as robust as we would have liked. But moving forward, keeping that in mind, we will installing a ethanol capacity. So when there is not much demand for ENA, we'll be able to produce 100% ethanol if needed. And there is very good demand for ethanol in the state.

Okay, sir. And lastly, on Edible Oil, so the inventory rates for how is a reasonable price or it just still have high-cost inventory?

See, markets have improved significantly since my last con call and since the last quarter. So I think the pricing of the inventory, we are much more comfortable now than we were before.

The next question comes from the line of Narendra from RoboCapital.

Congratulations on the strong set of numbers. So can you give us a number of -- I mean what was the sales from bottling revenue in FY '23 for country liquors?

[indiscernible].

No, no. FY '23.

FY '23 for the entire of last year?

Yes.

So I think for the entirety of last year, our bottling revenues were around, let's say, INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores. I don't have the exact figure with me right now. But for the first quarter of this financial year, we were able to do about INR 23 crores in our country liquor segment. So we are seeing our country liquor demand more than doubling as opposed to last year. So that is a big positive for us.

So we could see around INR 100 crores, INR 120 crores from this segment this year, right?

Yes, we are having for around INR 100 crores.

Okay. Okay. And any goal to go outside of Punjab or is it -- will it be limited inside Punjab?

No, see, with state excise, it's going -- moving out of one state, it's like moving to a brand-new country with a whole new policy and everything. So for now, our concentration is in Punjab itself and there's a huge scope of growth in this Punjab. So right now, I think we capture about 10% to 12% of Punjab's country liquor market. So first would be to increase this percentage and only then we'll look to -- if needed, we'll look to go out of state, but not for now.

Okay. Okay. So my second question would be regarding the capacity utilization for the new 200 KLPD capacity that you [indiscernible]. So what was it? I mean, 2 months have passed since the -- 1.5 months have passed since you commissioned that facility. So any number you would like to share?

So unfortunately, when we came in the commissioning, the FCI policy changed, so we had a raw material shortage briefly. So the plant went into a shutdown for some time. But with the maize site has been revised and us being able to procure maize, now the capacity utilization currently as we speak, is around 70% to 80% and by -- in a week's time, we expect it to go 100%.

Okay. And the Svaksha CapEx, when do we expect it to be commissioned?

So our target is to commission it in December of this year.

Okay. Okay. So what would be the utilization there?

So ideally, post commissioning, we expect 100% capacity utilization. If we don't run into any troubles, which I don't foresee us running into.

Okay. And in the Svaksha plant, we had good margins this quarter. I believe 16%, 17%, I guess. So is that sustainable or -- because in the last call, you had guided a 15% margin. So is this margin sustainable?

Yes. I think 15% to 18% is a good range that we can stay for from the Distillery sector. So I think, yes, 16% -- we did 16.3% last quarter. So I think we're trying to sustain that.

Okay, okay. And now Bhatinda margin. So when could we see a normalization going towards 15%, 16%. You said that your liquor sales are -- country liquor sales have kind of put pressure on the margins. So when could we see that going up?

See, we had an EBITDA margin of 14.13% last quarter which is not that bad. So for the country liquor for this year, the entirety of this year, we'll be pricing our products very, very aggressively to gain stronger foothold in the market. But overall, I do expect this margin to improve slightly, there was a new power plants coming into play.

Okay. So the FY '24 margins could be around 15%, 16%. Is it [indiscernible] overall?

15% to 18%, it could improve also. Coming in November, the prices of raw materials could decrease. So it would be hard to give you like 1 or 2 percentage points. I think 15% to 18% is a decent range.

Okay. And then just a clarification regarding the maize being used in the Distillery. So these are higher yield, I believe, for Distillery. Am I right?

Yes, it does.

Yes. So that could offset the increased cost of that, right?

No. Not exactly because although the yield is higher, the 14 percentage in May [ DDGS ] is a lot lower. So it's -- the selling price for KG is much lower. And another issue with Indian maize is that since India as an economy doesn't have the best grain handling facilities available to farmers. So what we see is when a farmer harvests the maize, the moisture content is usually quite high. And if there is no facility for the farmer or the traders to drive this maize soon after, the aflatoxin increases in the crop which result in the higher increase of aflatoxin in the DDGS. So for maize DDGS, everyone in the country has a problem that the aflatoxin increases. So that decreases the demand for export of DDGS. Our Bengal unit, we used to have a good demand for export out of country for rice DDGS, which is not the case for maize DDGS due to the season. So as the cultivation of maize increases in the country, as the farmers get a better price for maize, we expect these problems to be solved, but that's not until a year or 2 from now. That's a long-term process.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dipesh Sancheti of Manya Finance.

Congratulations on good refinery numbers. And again, thank you for being there to [indiscernible] as the company has done before also. A few of the questions were -- am I audible?

Yes, yes.

One, what was the capacity utilization in Svaksha plant? And going forward, when will we get it to 100% capacity?

See, the capacity utilization was between 90% to 95%. As I said, the demand for ENA is not the best in the state at the moment, but we expect it to increase October onwards, in the colder months, the sale increases of country liquor in the state. And also, we -- in our expansion, we are expanding our ethanol capacity so that when there is not enough ENA demand in the state, then the entirety of the production can be used towards ethanol manufacturing as there is good demand for that. So we're striving towards bringing that unit to 100% capacity utilization.

Yes. In the investor presentation, I could see that it's [indiscernible]. So how much of...

Excuse me sir, your voice is breaking. Can you please be in the...

Am I audible now?

Yes, you are.

Yes. What was the percentage of ENA and ethanol sales in Bhatinda and Svaksha?

The Bhatinda for last quarter had been around 50-50. For Svaksha, ethanol sales would be around 70%, 75%.

Ethanol sales of 75%.

Right.

And going ahead, maybe October onwards, that will come down to 50-50 or maybe higher for ENA?

50-50.

50-50. Okay. And with this price increase after the FCI ban, will our margins be intact?

We are striving to have similar margins continue, but as I mentioned, it is a situation that's changing on a daily basis. Right now, we don't know whether FCI will resume their rice supply or not. So even if there is a rumor in the market that the FCI will start assuming their rice supplies to Distilleries, we see that prices start to decrease a little for maize, because now traders have started reporting on to a stock, forecasting that there will be a further increase in the price for maize in the market. So let's see how the grain prices play out in the market. We are to benefit as opposed to our peer due to our good experience in grain purchase and handling and processing of maize. So we are quite optimistic on that front. But yes, it is a huge shock to the system that a sudden decision was made overnight when the next crop is not to arrive until November. So let's see. But we are hoping to sustain our margin.

Okay. And what are the current prices of maize and rice which we are procuring at?

So currently, we're only operating maize. So our procurement prices are around INR 20 to INR 21 a kg.

That's good. Okay. And we expect this price to come down if FCI resumes?

If the FCI is to resume their supply, we expect this price to decrease because then the Distilleries across the country have an alternate raw material source.

Hello? Yes. Sorry, I missed that last line.

So if FCI is to resume supply to Distilleries, then we expect the maize price to decrease slightly because then the buyers have an alternate raw material.

Right. And for this year, the paddy prices are -- which we'll be procuring for the entire year, for the boiler.

Paddy will arrive because of early monsoon. Paddy will -- paddy crop will arrive by October, November -- late October or November this year.

Okay. So we -- when we will be buying for the boiler, we will be buying...

Paddy straw. That's paddy straw. We've done the contract for the entire year. So like, for example, this year, our purchase was at INR 2.51 for the entire year of June. For the next year, I have done a contract for INR 2.63 for the entire year. So not much of an increase in the price.

Right. And the same quantity? Or is there any hike in the quantity?

Increased quantity because for this year, we didn't have full working months. So next year, we'll be consuming about 110,000 tonnes of paddy straw for the entire year.

Wow. Okay. Great. And one question about the debt situation. How much is the debt right now, the gross debt?

The debt. So working capital, if you include Svaksha, it is around INR 220 crores for the Edible Oil unit at Bhatinda, the Distillery at Bhatinda and Svaksha Distillery Limited. And if we are to talk about the term loans, we have about INR 3.5 crores outstanding on our existing 200 KLPD Distillery at Bhatinda, rest has all been paid. We have taken INR 120 crore loans for the expansion from Canada Bank for which the applicable interest rate would be around 4% after the interest subvention scheme. And there are 2 term loans in Svaksha Distillery of about INR 80 crores, out of which INR 35 crores is under the interest subvention scheme and the rest are small vehicle loans and everything else.

Right. Great. Great. That's Okay. And what about the Edible Oil prices going ahead [indiscernible].

Mr. Sancheti, your voice is breaking.

Am I audible now?

Yes, you're audible now.

If you want, you can come back in the queue.

Okay. I'll come back in the queue. I'll try and come back in the queue.

The next question is from the line of Shikha Kapur of Omkara Capital.

Kushal, 2 questions. One, can you explain the economics of recovery of ethanol from maize? I understand from rice, it was about 450 liters per tonne. So one is, if you can explain that economics from maize and how much [indiscernible] thereafter?

It's around -- ethanol is 380 to 385 liters for a tonne of maize and the recovery of DDGS is around 21% to 22% per tonne.

In value terms, for example, if you procure maize for INR 20 a kg, DDGS would be what? at INR 5 per kg?

DDGS [indiscernible] at INR 20, INR 21 per kg.

Okay. And what's your procurement price of maize?

Procurement price, I'd say, around INR 20, average.

Okay. Secondly, also, are your facilities like Svaksha flexible? For example, you mentioned that demand for ENA is down because of excise. So is it -- how flexible is it to shift from ENA to ethanol?

See, for ethanol, we are currently producing about 160 to 165 KL per day and the rest of the capacity is towards ENA. We can't produce more than 160 to 165 of ethanol a day. So the -- so we're trying to bring that to 200%, which will be done with the expansion.

Sure. And the capacities, I just wanted to reconfirm Svaksha right now, it's 200 KLPD, which would be increased to 300 by December, that's what you said?

Yes.

And for Bhatinda, it's currently at 400, this would remain at 400 for the entire year?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta of Maximal Capital.

So first is, so just from my understanding, when we are procuring for maize, do we see any impact on our overall volumes because of -- I understand the feeding issues, but once we have now started using maize, so do we see any impact on the volumes that we produce because of non-availability of maize or availability of some maize at a very high price, which we will not like, things like that?

For now, I think we are sitting in a better position, and we don't forecast that big of a problem. Because when the FCI stopped their rice supply, I think we were able to realize that now maize will be their targets, and we ended up doing a lot of forward contracts as much as possible because at that time, there were not many buyers for the damage made in the market. So that has worked out to our benefit. So for now, it's working well for us.

No, I mean, onetime is fine, but on a sustainable basis and for your 700 KLPD, now everyone would want to go for maize, a lot of other players as well. So is it problem to procure for the entire 700 KLPD by end of this year, let's say, FCI does not resume, then do we see any impact on that...

We're probably forecasting a good value prop this year as well and the price that the farmers have got for their maize crop this year, we expect the cultivation of maize to also increase. The thing that has happened in India is a lot of this rice and maize, both have been allowed to be exported freely. It wasn't that India had a deficit. It was just that a lot of the rice was exported, a lot of maize was exported. And this -- now as we see the raw rice export has been banned, and similarly, if farmers and traders get a good price from maize domestically, then they won't have no -- then there's no need to export. So with an increase in the maize price, within export ban on raw rice, we expect with the new crop, we expect raw material to be available. And also to put this in perspective, currently, the FCI also, if you look at FCI, they're not sitting on a deficit stock in many terms. They have a stock of 243 lakh tonnes of rice against the buffer norms of 135 lakh. So they do have excess stock and the grain-based Distillery were only -- they were allocated for 34 lakh tonnes, out of which, I think about 14 lakh tonnes was given. So about 20 lakhs tonnes was left to be given. So the quantity required by the ethanol sector in the -- from the -- from grains is not that big for a country like India. But yes, for you to shift from one raw material to another, an entire ecosystem needs to be changed. So that does take some time, and there might be some teasing issues along the way, but we don't expect this to be a problem in the long run.

Understood. And on the margin side, now, assuming that again, this FCI does not resume, I understand that you said that your target is to 15% to 18%. But then maize itself will be having a widely fluctuating price as opposed to FCI rice which was not so much of volatility we had seen in that price. So how do you see that? Because then at one point of time, maize price could be very high or low. I'm not just talking about this season, which might be good, but in the long run, this can have a lot of volatility in your margins also, right?

Yes, it could. There is no doubt about that. But we are quite hopeful that when there is a significant increase in the raw material prices, the OMCs in the past have reacted a stock accordingly and increased the price of ethanol. So if there was to be another huge increase in the price of maize, let's say, we do expect the price for ethanol to be revised accordingly. And secondly, we are in a much, much better position than our competitors, I can say that with whole confidence. And this will be shown in our numbers moving forward, I'm sure.

Understood. And this boiler margin impact, which was, I think, INR 2 or INR 4 per liter -- INR 2 per liter, I guess. So that hasn't shown yet, right? So that would be additional over this 15% that we have got additional.

Yes, that has been come into the numbers. From quarter 2 onwards, it will start showing but not to the full effect because initially, we did run into some trouble commissioning it. As I speak, we're working that boiler at 100% capacity utilization now but there were times in this quarter when it didn't operate to its capacity.

So that's only for the 400 KLPD, right? Out of -- Svaksha will not benefit anyways.

No, Svaksha will not benefit and also not the entire 400 KLPD, about 60% of the capacity of the 400 KLPD.

On the 240 KLPD, you can get a benefit. And you also had a plan of further expansion in Bhatinda of, I think, 150 KLPD next year or something like that? So is that -- I mean, going on? Or is that...

See DDIL has been moved for environmental cadence. We are not fast tracking it to be completely honest with you. We want to see how the ethanol policy plays out in the next 6 months or so before making a final decision on that expansion.

Understood. Understood. Sir, total debt, just to understand this, it's 180 -- INR 120 plus INR 85 crores. So around INR 200 crores of term loan is there apart from the working capital debt, right?

Right, right. And then there are some vertical loans for bankers. And we have 2 leased and discounting for rente out buildings, which amounts to about INR 20 crores.

Okay. Do we have any noncore assets right now like in real estate or somewhere where we can sell something in one short to sort of decrease that? And also the preferential amount which is left. So net of these 2 optionalities, how much could it get reduced to?

See, the target for the company is to -- the term loans that are on the books that are not under the interest subvention scheme, we wish to pay them off as soon as possible. So yes, the money that will be coming from the preferential, some of it could be utilized towards modernizing our 200 KLPD plant in Bhatinda, the existing plant because ENA norms -- ENA quality norms that changed since the plant was set up in 2011 and it needs a revamp. So some of that would go towards that. And the rest would go towards paying off the debt on the book that is not under the interest subvention scheme.

And any noncore assets that we have?

Mr. Gupta, I'm sorry to interrupt, there are other people also waiting in the queue. We have the next question from the line of Imran from Longbow India Limited.

Sir, my question is on your -- the expansion that you are doing at Svaksha Distillery. You're putting about 100 KL capacity, specifically for ethanol. And given the environment in West Bengal, how do you think about it? And how do you mitigate the risk of availability of raw materials?

See, raw material availability in Bengal is very good, it's the highest producer of paddy in the country. And for that reason, we chose to expand in the state. What happened was a lot of the grain was exported out of Bengal, which caused lack of availability of rice to put it clearly, broken rice was mostly gone to China, and they bought a huge amount. So moving forward, the demand of ethanol in Bengal is good. And I expect with -- in the coming times that export will be left out of the state and more raw material would be available for companies like that.

Right. And this seems like a long-term trend. But in the short term, maybe in the immediate term, I have been at least calling the dealers and the mills in West Bengal. And I got to know that there is basically no broken rice available for sale. Is it the same thing that you see in West Bengal, or I am reading too much?

There's not much availability of broken rice and we're operating 100% on maize. And that is -- we don't mind that as BCL. We the ability to work 100% on maize, and we're doing so. But I can't say that for all the competitors.

And maize is available -- maize availability is now fairly decent in West Bengal right now?

Yes, we don't have any issues as of now.

All right. My -- the second question is on -- it's a very broad question basically. What kind of pressure do you think the ethanol blending program is putting on the broken rice and FCI rice availability in the country? If you can just share your thoughts on this.

FCI rice availability, I would say no question at all. As I mentioned earlier, FCI is sitting on 243 lakhs tonnes of stock against their buffer norms of 135 lakhs. And the entire year allocation towards the ethanol industry was around 34 lakhs. So I don't see that -- I don't see ethanol being any reason that FCI will be deficit of stock. Firstly, I would like to make the statement very clear. Secondly, I think it's a very good thing that because of ethanol that there is an increased demand for broken rice in the country. As you know, that trickles down to the farmer. When a rice miller gets a very good price for his husk or broken rice, he is more likely to procure the paddy at a higher cost from the local mandi, which directly benefits the farmers. So the ethanol industry has worked very well in the sense that in increasing the farmers' income, you see rice mills have come back into being profitable. And that's mainly because the byproduct prices have increased significantly due to an increased demand would directly benefit the farmer. If you know 70% of the population is indirectly or directly linked to the agriculture sectors and the price of commodity increases because of an increase in demand, I think that is a very good thing for the country as a whole.

Right. Sir, I appreciate that. My point was on more of the supply volumes rather than the prices. I know the prices, farmers will get good price. We will have some hit on the margin, but that is okay. But the more important point is the availability. What percentage of...

There will be an availability. As I'm trying to say, India is a huge country and the demand for grain from the ethanol sector isn't as huge. Today, the -- it's -- let's say, the government, if we move towards the 500-crore liter target that the government has set from the grain-based ethanol sector, the requirement is about 40 million metric tons of maize, which is not that big for the country. Once the farmers start getting a good price for their maize, the cultivation will increase. So as I said, there might be some issues down the line, but 1 or 2 years, it is not that big of a demand.

Right. Okay. Okay. Can you -- lastly, can you share the prices maybe for broken rice in West Bengal, if that information is available, otherwise...

We're not in the market. So I can't confirm.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Anirban Manna from -- he's an individual investor.

The last time we have guided for FY '24, INR 100 crores of revenue from oil sector and INR 150 crores of revenue from Distillery. So are we on track according to the current scenario?

That would be too low for a company like us. I think the Edible Oil sector has gone through a hiccup, but still, we are hoping to do about INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,200 crores of revenue and about same of that from the Distillery sector. And I'm revising the Edible Oil OpEx number downwards, but still, we're hoping to achieve at least INR 1,000 crores.

Okay. Distillery, okay, would be INR 1,000 crores, I mean it has been reduced from INR 1,500 crores to INR 1,000 crores.

That has also been decreased because one month, ethanol production was stopped because of the FCI issue. And secondly, as we'll also be taking a shutdown for revamping the 200 KLPD in Bhatinda.

We have the question from the line of Bala Murli from Oman Investment Advisors.

Could you please explain the unit of economics for this maize -- raw material as maize? And what is the mix of the raw material which we are using. Earlier before that told that conversion cost will be around INR 18 per lite,r, per broken rice per FCI rice. So how it will be for maize, and is there any impact on the output also?

See, we're working 100% on maize. As I mentioned, you can expect about 380 to 385 recovery per tonne from maize and about 20% in DDGS recovery. Further, talking about the processing costs and everything, I would not like to go into too much depth as of now as we are -- I'd say we are reducing it very efficiently, and I wouldn't want to bring out too many numbers out in the public. But I'd still say that with the current market scenario, we're high.

Okay. And one more thing on CapEx side. So you have this Bhatinda expansion plant and also some gren energy expansion plants that you told earlier. So if you are delaying this Bhatinda expansion like any other segment, you are looking for CapEx capacity.

See, there are a couple of things that the company is looking at to further expand if we don't do the 150 expansion at Bhatinda in ethanol. I think it's too early for me to say anything right now with the changing environment. Our target is to operate our plants as efficiently as possible given the current disturbances with the FCI rice and everything. And secondly, to bring this 700 into production.

Okay. And lastly, on this Bhatinda whole plant is shut down. So when it will be and how many days it will be? And at that time, I think the new plant will come as easy.

It's not under shut down. We will be taking the shutdown, still figuring that out, will probably be in the month of October for about a month.

So at that time, both plants will be shut down?

No, during that time, the new ethanol plant will still be operating. The hold 200 KLDP plant will be under shutdown.

[Operator Instructions] We have the question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Sir, just on the shutdown and this revision of the guidance, I think we have already done 200 -- almost INR 180 crores this quarter without the benefit of INR 200 crores from Bhatinda and the Svaksha, which will come in maybe in the last quarter. So maybe last quarter, what is the sort of the top line guidance?

For Bhatinda, we did INR 146 crores. And for Svaksha we've done INR 95 crores.

Yes. So for the last quarter, quarter 4, what should be the top line guidance from Distillery, sir?

For the last quarter?

Quarter 4 of this financial year because that time you will have Svaksha, plus you won't have any shutdown and hopefully, not any FCI issues also.

See, that is too forward of a statement for me to make right now because that all depends on if we're able to commission the 100 KLPD by December, which is an aggressive target, to be honest. We're working towards it. So God willing, everything works out. Then I'd say we can aim for about INR 400 crores, but it all depends on a lot of situations. So really, I can't predict that much right now.

So either last quarter or let's say, quarter 1 of last -- next year, we can raise this also?

I'd rather make a statement for the entire financial year than quarter-wise because there are a lot of things that can happen in the quarter. And it's too short term of a period in our industry to make a prediction for. So for the entirety of next year, we aim for our INR 1,300 crores of revenue, INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores.

Understood. And sir, just a follow-up on my previous question was this, do we have any noncore real estate, et cetera, which we can sell to bring down the debt in one short?

Nothing as of that yet.

Okay. And on the Distillery side, now there has been a lot of negative volatility. So now from here, what do we sort of expect going forward in the coming quarters in terms of both top line and EBITDA?

See, as I mentioned, we are aiming to do 15% to 18% of EBITDA from our Distillery sector. We're trying to sustain these numbers given the current market scenario.

Sir, I'm talking about the Edible Oil business.

Edible Oil business. Edible Oil business, I'd say, aiming for 4%, 4.5% of EBITDA margin.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kushal Mittal for closing comments. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you, everyone, for participating in this earnings call. I hope I was able to answer your questions satisfactorily, and at the same time, offer insights into our business. If you have any further questions or would you like to know more about the company, please feel free to reach out to our Investor Relation managers at [indiscernible] Advisors. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Choice Equity Broking Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.