Befesa S.A. (BFSA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. My name is Lydia, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Befesa First Half 2021 Results Presentation. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Rafael Perez, Director of Investor Relations and Strategy. Please, sir, go ahead.

Good morning, and welcome to the First Half 2021 Results Conference Call of Befesa. I am Rafael Perez, Head of Strategy and Investor Relations of Befesa. And today, as usual, we have with us Javier Molina, CEO of Befesa; and Wolf Lehmann, CFO of the company. Javier Molina will start with an executive summary of the first half, covering the main highlights of the period. Then Wolf will review the first half and second quarter financials in total and by business units as well as cash flow. Javier will close this presentation providing an update on our growth plans as well as an outlook for 2021. Finally, we will open the lines for the Q&A session. Before getting started, let me remind you that this conference call is being webcasted live. You can find the link to the webcast on the first half 2021 results presentation on our website, www.befesa.com. Now let me turn this call over to our CEO. Javier, please.

Good morning, and thank you for attending this conference call. The first half of 2021 has been the best half in the history of Befesa. Not only we have achieved a strong financial result, but we have also made great development in our growth strategy with the acquisition of American Zinc Recycling. In the first half of 2021, we have achieved EUR 94 million of EBITDA, which represents an increase of 70% compared to last year. This confirms that we are back to pre-COVID levels. The main driver for this increase has been a favorable market price environment in the semester, with a recovery in the price of zinc and aluminum as well as favorable zinc treatment charge for 2021. In this semester, LME zinc price has been EUR 2,349, up 27% compared to last year. In the case of aluminum alloys, the average price during the semester has been EUR 1,963, up 45% compared to the same period of last year. As we explained already in the last call, treatment charge for the total year was settled at $159 compared to $300 in 2020. This difference of $140 per tonne has also contributed positively to the earnings growth we have achieved in the first half of this year. From the volume point of view, the volume of steel dust treated in the semester has been similar to last year, considering that during the second quarter of this year, some of the steel dust business plan have stopped to carry out annual scheduled maintenance works. In the aluminum business, the strong volume of secondary aluminum has enabled us to achieve very good results in this business during the semester. The market environment in the main industries where we operate has seen a positive level of activity during the first half of the year, continuing the recovery story already experienced in the last quarter of last year. As such, the production of steel in Europe in the semester has increased 18% compared to 2020. The automotive industry in Europe has also shown recovery in the first half as well. Car registrations increased by 25% compared to last year, which was dramatically affected by COVID. On the other hand, the production of car is being affected by the crisis of the supply of microchips, not only in Europe, but worldwide. This is impacting the demand for secondary aluminum in Europe, which we are successfully compensating with an increase in exports to Asian markets. The generation of cars -- of cash during the first half of 2021 has been very strong. And this has enabled us to finish the semester with EUR 197 million of cash on hand and a leverage of 2.2x. During the second quarter, we have made great development in our growth strategy. As we announced last 16th of June, we have signed acquisition of 100% of American Zinc Recycling, the market leader in steel dust recycling in North America. As a result of this transaction, Befesa will become the global leader in steel dust recycling, with a strong presence in the 3 main markets in the world: Europe, America and Asia. The purchase price of American Zinc Recycling has been $450 million, which implies an attractive acquisition multiple of around 6x EBITDA pro forma post near-term synergies. The acquisition is very attractive for our shareholders, as it will deliver high value creation reflected in a strong earnings per share accretion, higher overall margin and greater geographic diversification. The funding of the transaction has been done through a combination of the issuance of new equity and debt. The capital increase of 5.9 million new Befesa shares under the authorized capital was successfully completed at the price of EUR 56 per share. Additionally, we extended our term loan B with an amount of EUR 100 million. Our growth plans in China continue as planned on schedule and on budget. The construction of the plant in Jiangsu is finished, and we are currently in the commissioning process, expecting to start commercial output from August onwards. We also continue construction work of our second plant in Henan, which we expect to be finished during the last quarter of this year. Regarding the outlook for this year 2021. After a very good first half, we expect also a strong second part of the year, provided that metal price are maintained at the same level. I will provide more details on the full year guidance later in the presentation. Now Wolf Lehmann will explain the financials in more details. Wolf, please.

Please turn to Page 6, the first half 2021 consolidated financial highlights. As explained by Javier, Befesa delivered in the first half a record EBITDA of EUR 94.1 million, up 70% from the first half 2020 as well as 18% or EUR 14 million up versus first half of 2019, clearly demonstrating the recovery to and above pre-COVID levels. The drivers of the year-over-year EUR 39 million EBITDA improvement are mainly price driven with the following components. Up EUR 30 million from higher prices, zinc LME prices at EUR 2,349 per tonne, up 27% year-over-year. Slightly down EUR 2 million due to lower zinc hedging prices, EUR 2,200 per tonne in first half '21 versus EUR 2,234 per tonne in first half '20. This partially offset the higher zinc LME market prices. Up EUR 15 million from the reference zinc treatment charges settled favorably at EUR 159 (sic) [ $159 ] per tonne versus $300 per ton and 2020. Finally, EUR 30 million up from the higher aluminum alloy free metal bulletin prices, which averaged EUR 1,963 per tonne, up 45% year-over-year as well as better aluminum metal margins year-over-year. In summary, Befesa delivered solid pre-COVID-19 plant utilization levels and benefited from a favorable market price environment in first half '21, which enabled us to deliver our all-time high first half EBITDA of EUR 94 million EBITDA at a strong 24.5% EBITDA margin. Aligned with EBITDA, net profit was up EUR 25 million year-over-year, more than double to EUR 45.6 million in the first half, equal to EUR 1.32 earnings per share based on weighted average numbers of shares of 34.5 million in the first half 2021. We improved our strong cash, net debt and leverage performance even further to record levels, which I will explain later on, on Page 9. Please note in the appendix of this presentation, you will find various financial and operational data tables with quarterly annual and multiyear views for your reference. Turning to Page 7. The Steel Dust Recycling Services results. Steel Dust Recycling Services continued to perform at very strong earnings levels and achieved EUR 69.2 million EBITDA in the first half, up EUR 24.5 million or 55% year-over-year. The corresponding EBITDA margin amounted to 35%. The price lever was positive by EUR 25 million year, being the main driver behind positive EBITDA development. Looking at selected operational metrics on the lower part of the page. Volume or electric arc furnace steel dust throughput remained approximately stable at 341,000 tonnes. Overall plant utilization continued at pre-COVID levels of around 83%. Please note that several of the scheduled annual plant maintenance overhauls were conducted in the second quarter. The average zinc LME market prices stood at EUR 2,349 per tonne in the first half, up 27% year-over-year. Our zinc hedging prices in the first half were slightly down, slightly lower year-over-year as well as compared to the spot average prices in the first half of '21. Combined, the resulting zinc blended price came in at EUR 2,254 per tonne, up EUR 190 per tonne or 9% year-over-year. Correspondingly, positive EBITDA effect from the higher zinc LME market prices of cross positive EUR 13 million was slightly offset by a negative EUR 2 million due to the hedges, resulting net in a positive EUR 11 million effect. In addition, zinc reference treatment charges were settled at $159 per tonne for 2021 versus $300 per tonne in 2020. Treatment charges are valid from 1st of January and favorably impacted our first half EBITDA by EUR 15 million year-over-year. Overall, Steel Dust Recycling Services delivered a very strong EUR 69.2 million EBITDA in first half with a high 35% EBITDA margin and solid plant utilization at around 83%, clearly back at pre-COVID levels. Going now to Page 8, the results of our Aluminum Salt Slags Recycling Services segment. Aluminum Salt Slag Recycling Services delivered in first half a record level of EBITDA of EUR 24.8 million, up EUR 12.6 million year-over-year, doubling earnings year-over-year. The EBITDA increase was primarily driven by the price lever with aluminum alloy free metal bulletin market prices showing a 45% year-over-year increase as well as better aluminum metal margins, which combined drove a positive EUR 13 million EBITDA effect year-over-year. The volume level was overall neutral with higher secondary aluminum alloys offsetting slightly lower salt slags volume due to the U.K. plant closure at year-end 2020. Overall, Aluminum Salt Slags Recycling Services delivered the strongest first half EBITDA on record at EUR 24.8 million with EBITDA margin for the salt slag and Spent Pot Linings hazardous waste recycling core segment back at 30% and overall plant utilization recovered to pre-COVID-19 levels at around 90% or above. Turning to Page 9, cash flow, net debt and leverage results. On the EBITDA to cash flow bridge starting with EUR 94.1 million EBITDA on the left-hand side and walking to the right. Working capital was seasonally slightly up by EUR 7 million year-over-year. Interest, as expected, around EUR 8 million, with the first of the 2 biannual term loan interest payments made in January. Taxes, EUR 9 million, also as expected. Resulting in an all-time high operating cash flow of EUR 70.2 million for the first half, up EUR 59 million year-over-year or more than 6x higher versus the EUR 11.2 million at first half last year. Note that on a last 12-month basis, the operating cash flow amounts to EUR 151.6 million, well above pre-COVID level. In first half, we spent maintenance CapEx of approximately EUR 13 million, plus growth CapEx of approximately EUR 30 million, summing to a total of EUR 43 million on CapEx, partially funded through the China local loans for our 2 plants at Jiangsu and Henan. Also, as you know, on the 16th of June 2021, Befesa agreed to acquire 100% of American Zinc Recycling, AZR recycling assets, for a purchase price of $450 million and a minority stake in its zinc recycling -- zinc refining business for $10 million, with an option to acquire the remaining business once certain operational, financial performance milestones are fulfilled. This transaction is expected to close in August 2021, and it's financed through a capital increase of new ordinary shares from the existing authorized capital, accelerated equity offering and for term loan B add-on of EUR 100 million. The EUR 330.6 million of net funds raised through the accelerated equity offering got reflected in our Q2 cash flow. The EUR 100 million term loan B add-on will be reflected once the deal is closed, so that's expected to be reflected in our balance sheet at Q3 closing. Total recorded cash flow in first half '21 amounted to positive EUR 372.7 million or positive EUR 42.1 million when normalized for the mentioned EUR 330.6 million net funds raised through the accelerated equity offering. The normalized EUR 42.1 million total cash flow improved cash on hand from EUR 154.6 million at year-end '20 to EUR 196.6 million at Q2 2021 closing, also a new high and record for Befesa. The normalized cash on hand of EUR 197 million, together with our entirely undrawn EUR 75 million revolving credit line, provides Befesa with a very strong liquidity of EUR 272 million. This is supporting the enhanced credit ratings by Moody's reaffirmed at current Ba2 stable and Standard & Poor's who upgraded Befesa's credit rating to BB+ stable. Net debt reduced to EUR 371 million. And with the last 12 months rolling EUR 166 million EBITDA results in 2.24x net leverage, reduced from 3.1x at year-end 2020. The AZR acquisition will maintain Befesa's leverage ratio at similar levels post acquisition -- post closing. The current 2.24x leverage below 2.25x will trigger the next interest rate credit. As such, interest rate paid on the term loan B will reduce to 1.75% from 2.0%. Based on the EUR 626 million extended term loan B, this 25 basis points reduction will imply approximately EUR 1.6 million annual interest savings. We continue to be compliant with all debt covenants and have no applicable covenants. The capital structure remains unchanged and long term all set to July 2026. Summarizing, the backbone of Befesa is strong, and we continue to manage conservatively. The 3 main levers are: capital structure, long term, all set up to mid-2026 and at an efficient interest rate, reducing to 1.75% as well as cash, cash we manage conservatively as well as liquidity. Even at the peak of COVID-19, we held more than EUR 100 million cash and now achieved a new record EUR 195 million cash on hand -- even more than EUR 195 million at Q2 closing. Hedging, our strong and long-term hedge book reaching out to July 2024, thus for the next 3 years. I'll explain on the next page in more detail. Those 3 levers: capital structure, cash, hedging form the strong backbone of the Befesa's financial capital structure. And so it was very well in crisis situations like the COVID-19 pandemic. This allowed and allows us to continue to go full speed ahead on our growth expansion in China and in the U.S. Turning to Page 10 on hedging. In second quarter 2021, we continued our hedging rigor and extended our zinc hedge book further up to and including July 2024. For this year's 2021 as well as for the following years 2022-2023 and first half of 2024, we are fully hedged at the targeted 23,100 tonnes per quarter or 92,400 tonnes annually, that's overall with 3 years of hedges on the books. 2021 is hedged at around EUR 2,150 per tonne sold forward prices, 2022 at around EUR 2,200 per tonne, 2023 at around EUR 2,300 per tonne and the first half of '24 at around EUR 2,325 per tonne. The hedging provides Befesa with improved pricing earnings and cash flow visibility to allow to fund our growth initiatives organically. Our hedging strategy remains unchanged. We hedge 1 to 3 years out. We target 60% to 75% of our zinc equivalent volume. The majority or around 80% is in euros, the rest in Korean won. And we don't provide any collateral. The risk is transferred entirely to our hedging partners. Referring to the first half, the lower left section on Page 10. In first half 2021, the zinc LME market prices averaged approximately EUR 2,349 per tonne. Our zinc hedges were locked in at approximately EUR 2,200 per tonne on average compared to the strong -- slightly below compared to the strong spot price in first half. Overall, the zinc blended price in first half averaged at EUR 2,254 per tonne, up 9% EUR 190 per tonne year-over-year. Summarizing the financial section before we turn to the growth and outlook, 3 points. One, Befesa delivered in first half 2021 the highest first half in the history of the company at EUR 94 million EBITDA, up 70% over last year and had a very strong start to the year in terms of operating cash flow, cash and leverage. Secondly, our financial backbone is strong. We extended our hedges out to July 2024. Our capital structure is efficient and long term, resulting in stable and strong liquidity. Three, based on this strong backbone, we funded our expansion in China even during this challenging pandemic full speed. In China, we are progressing on schedule and budget and entered in the U.S. market through the acquisition of AZR. Back to Javier, who will provide you the latest on our China expansion, AZR acquisition and the outlook.

Thanks, Wolf. I would like to finish the call providing some more details and thoughts on the outlook of this year. 2021 is an exciting year for Befesa and truly an important milestone in the development of the company as we are entering in a new market like in the U.S. and at the same time completing the construction and start the operation in our first 2 plants of steel dust recycling in China. In North America, after the signing of the acquisition of AZR, we expect the closing of the deal to happen over the coming weeks, middle August. After that, we will start with the integration of the company into Befesa in order to capture the immediate synergies and [ take also ] of the operations. In China, at Jiangsu province, as explained, we have completed the construction of the plant, and we are finishing the first commissioning of the plant. After that, we will start with trial production, for which we have already secured the steel dust volume from customers. We expect to start with commercial output from August onwards. Our second plant in the province of Henan is developing as planned on budget and on time, and we had a schedule around 6 months after Jiangsu. We expect to complete the construction of the plant in the last quarter of this year. Moving now to the market environment. We have seen over the first half of the year a continuous recovery of the steel production in Europe, and we expect the current level of steel production to be maintained throughout this 2021, which will represent a higher production over last year. Regarding the automotive industry, in Europe, we will see how this develops over the second part of this year, especially with regards to the microchip situation. Let me now explain some details on the outlook for this year. In the first half of the year, we have made significant progress strategically, operationally and financially. Our outlook for the second part of the year remains very positive. And after the closing and consolidation of the AZR acquisition, we will update our full year guidance for 2021. We expect a strong second part of the year, driven by strong volume, which will be positively impacted by less maintenance shutdown as well and some volume contribution from China. From the metal price environment, we have seen a strong first half of the year with average zinc LME above EUR 2,300 per tonne and aluminum alloys just below EUR 2,000 per tonne. If this list price continues at the same level, we expect to end the year at the higher part of the EBITDA guidance that we provided in the last conference call of between EUR 165 million and EUR 190 million without taking in consideration the acquisition of American Zinc Recycling. As I said, once American Zinc Recycling acquisition is closed and consolidated, we will provide a revised guidance for the full year within our Q3 results reporting cycle. Cash flow generation is expected to be very strong for the full year, and we expect to end the year with a leverage ratio of around 2.1 and 2.2x. Finally, on ESG, I would like to stress once again that we are doing a lot of efforts to make sure that the market understands how Befesa is part of the circular economy and contributes with its business to environmental protection by recycling more than 1.5 million tonnes of hazardous reduced annually and producing more than 1.3 million tonnes of new materials, reduction -- reducing the consumption of natural resources. This has been the backbone of the business since the company started more than 3 decades ago. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Javier. We will now open the lines for your questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Ingo Schachel from Commerzbank.

On your earnings outlook for the second half of the year, I think we're obviously seeing a lot of cost inflation, freight cost, fuel cost, coking coal. I think so far in the first half, you've not been strongly affected. The inflation, others line that you show in the earnings bridge is pretty low. Can you tell us a bit whether you expect nay pockets of cost inflation in the second half of the year? Because obviously, you've not increased your guidance and I guess understandable with the closing of AZR being around the corner. But I just want to understand whether there are actually any reasons where you see a few millions of cost increase, which might explain why the upper end of your guidance is still a few million below where many analysts currently see your EBITDA for the full year?

Okay. Thanks, Ingo. Well, the cost inflation has been a fact during all the year and clearly it's being -- it is affecting our P&L, especially in the energy costs, as you know very well. But -- and we have included this consideration, this assumption in the guidance that we are providing. On the other hand, based on that, we are enjoying a very good levels of prices, both in zinc and aluminum. So based on that is why we feel very positive for the second part of the year. What we see is that the second part of the year should be at least as good as the first half. In terms of volume, even slightly better because we haven't done the big part of -- the plan of build-out in steel dust we have made the big part of our maintenance shutdown in the first half of the year. So the second part of the year in terms of your volume would be slightly better than the first half. We don't see any price variation in the churn terms. So -- and we are considering the inflation cost in our assumption. So based on all of that, it's why we consider that we should finish in the very high part of the guidance that we provide to the market in the last presentation.

Okay. And on China, can you give us a bit more detail on what you expect when you talk about the first commercial output in August, what's tonnage of volume of actual commercial output you expect maybe in August or the third quarter, whatever you want to share? And also from how many different clients you expect to receive dust in August or in the third quarter?

Okay. Thank you, Ingo, again. As you know, we are doing the hot commissioning of this. That means that we are starting to receive steel dust from our customers. We are talking with all the steelmakers in the province. It's not a huge number. We are talking between 15 to 20 steelmakers, and we are in conversations with all of them. And we are starting to receive dust from some of them. And we are in double position: One, start to get steel dust to do the trial, et cetera; and start to talk about long -- medium- and long-term contracts. For sure, we will start our operations in -- commercial operations in August. And we will have a good volume of steel dust to -- we will get a good volume of steel dust during the first semester. Let's see how about the ramp-up of the plant. And that's why we cannot confirm the amount that we are going to see during the first quarter because it will depend mostly on the evolution of the ramp-up of the -- the technical ramp-up of the plant. But let me finish telling that we feel very positive, both in the technical side and in the commercial side.

Okay. And when it comes to China and North America and cash flow, I mean, your cash flow has been very strong this quarter again. Once you start consolidating or ramping up China and North America, do you expect these markets to have a structurally different cash conversion and payment patterns? Or should it be very similar to the, let's say, near 0 net working capital in other markets?

It could be totally similar to the situation that we enjoy in our current markets. The rationale of the business is exactly the same. In the case of North America is something that we know very well because it's a mature market that it's been running in the same way than the European one. And in the case of China, what we expect is to be in the same -- exactly in the same situation that we are having in our current market. So we don't expect any change in our working capital situation.

Okay. And congratulations on the record numbers.

Thank you, Ingo.

The next question comes from Michael Hoffman from Stifel.

I just would like to follow up a little bit on what I just heard, just to be clear, you're -- from a standpoint, I get why you're not giving guidance because Asia is going to -- American Zinc is going to close soon. But you are at the upper end without it is what you're saying of original guidance?

Yes. Yes, yes. This is what I'm saying clearly.

Okay. Could you share with us the approximate assumption for what capacity utilization will be in the second half, given the level of maintenance that was done in the first half? Will we be running in the 85%, 90%?

Yes. Well, the -- basically, the utilization rate during the first half has been high, very -- and I would say, very high. In our internal language, we can say that we have been running our plant at full utilization. What's happened is that we have had, especially during the second quarter, most of our maintenance shutdown. In the second part of the year, we expect higher utilization rate because we will have less maintenance shutdown. We expect only the maintenance shutdown of our plant in Bilbao. And with that, we will have all the maintenance shutdown done in the first 3 quarters of the year. So the utilization would be very high and close to around 90% for the second part of the year.

Okay. So that would put you at selling nearly 240,000 to 245,000 tonnes of zinc oxide then this year. But is that a reasonable conclusion?

Yes, I think so. I think so.

Okay. Okay. And then, well, what are some of the other revenue lines that are in the steel dust business? How did -- what did they do this quarter so we can tweak that part of the model, things like stainless and those -- that other line that you have?

Okay. We expect the second part of the year should be in the stainless steel business stronger than the first part. We don't expect -- well, we don't expect a huge contribution in terms of EBITDA. But we expect to do better than in the first part of the year, clearly. We have done the maintenance shutdown as well in the first part of the year. So the evolution in the second part of the year would be better than in the first part.

Okay. And then on the aluminum side, given what's happening in auto production in Europe, is the buyer outside of Europe, something that can be sustained? Or is this a good short-term solution?

Well, we don't know very well. What I can say right now is that we are enjoying the situation today. And the European automotive industry is suffering, well, like the American one because the microchips crisis, but we have been able to sell all the production or the state of our production that we cannot sell in Europe, we are exporting to Asia. I can say that the -- we have visibility for the third quarter. I mean the third quarter will be, again, a very strong quarter for the secondary aluminum business. And we don't have visibility for the last part of the year. But I feel positive for 2 reasons. One, it is because the microchip crisis is starting to finish at least this is what we hear from some of our customers. And on the other hand, we see that the Asia market is still being very strong.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Benjamin Pfannes-Varrow from Berenberg.

Just a few follow-ups, please. Coming back to China with commercial operations starting in August. And does that mean, I mean you expect to already book some revenues from those commercial operations in August? Or how are those initial kind of trial volumes working? Is that immediately profitable? Or is there some ramp-up costs associated with that?

Well, I think -- Benjamin, thank you for the question. I think we should be prudent regarding the first month in China. In theory, yes, we will start to have some revenues in August. But as I told before, it will depend on the evolution of the ramp-up. We -- until the plant is running properly, we cannot confirm that we are not going to have any technical glitch, et cetera, et cetera. We are to think that we are in a trial period, in a ramp-up period. And for us now, the most important thing is to finish the ramp-up totally and properly. This is our goal in this moment. Well, to -- and based on that, we don't expect -- we expect some revenue contribution, but we don't expect a very -- some relevant earnings contribution because as you said very well, we cannot forecast very well what will be the cost in this period, et cetera, et cetera. So based on that, we expect to have -- to get some revenue contribution, perhaps some earnings contribution, but nothing really very important. 2021 will be our first year of full operation. And then that will be the year to expect an important contribution for our earnings.

Understood. And just coming back to a previous question as well on the volume expectation for H2. Could you repeat the figures which you confirmed, I think it was 220,000 tonnes, 240,000 tonnes volume in the second half? And was that presumably excluding China?

I don't -- I didn't understand very well, Benjamin. Can -- do you mean -- is this the question you are asking for?

Yes. Sorry, just coming back to the steel dust volumes in the second half, I think it was a previous question, and you confirmed the volume number for the second half, but I'm just wondering if that was excluding China or including China?

Well, we are not taking in consideration China. This is basically -- what I said is that the volumes in the steel dust business in the second half of the year would be higher than the first half without consider China. And this is because the volume of shutdowns we have done in the first part is higher than the one we are going to have in the second half. It is not dramatically higher, but slightly higher. This is without consider China. China will be on top of that.

The next question comes from Olivier Calvet from Kepler Cheuvreux.

Yes, I was just wondering on if you could come back to the way you expect the contracts to be signed with your suppliers in China. Yes, just over the next few months, obviously, we are pretty -- getting pretty close now, so...

We are in the middle of the conversations. And we got the final hazardous permit in China, which is the milestone which permits us to sign contracts and we are in the way to do that. We expect to start to sign first contract immediately. So we -- and now it's a nice moment in our negotiation with our future customers because well, we need to [ see an ] extension of the contract short term, long term in the commercial conditions. It's not -- to enjoy very good levels of zinc price is very nice for our business, but it's not the best to negotiate first contract within Europe like China. So as you can imagine, we are in the middle of this process, trying to manage in the best possible way for us the situation. But yes, the answer is, we are now starting to sign contracts. Probably what we are going to do and would be the best for us is to don't sign long-term contracts because it's not the best moment to sign long-term contract. But we will start to sign -- we are starting to sign contracts.

Okay. Okay. That's pretty clear. So just to confirm, you did get this sort of final hazardous, let's say, permit in China? Or is this...

Yes. We got. We got.

Okay. Okay. All right. And then second question, I just wanted to come back on the timing of the work shipments. Can you just explain like from an operating point of view, how this looks like and why we see this difference quarter-over-quarter?

It's something that for us, it's impossible to program, let me say, because I suppose you are asking this question because in this quarter, you have seen that the work sale has been smaller than in the previous quarter with the high production of -- with the high treatment of steel dust. The reason is that because there are some vessels in the harbor that are waiting to move. And the reason for that are very different reasons and for us it's quite impossible to program or to organize in a different way. The results are there, and we will enjoy the results in the next quarter.

No, that's a fair point. But I just wanted to clarify what can be some of the reasons why you would see...

Several different reasons, Olivier, nothing special and nothing that could be organizing in different. It depends on different factors. But at the end of the year, in a few years, normally, it's not affecting the final view of our P&L.

Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions. I will now give back the floor to Mr. Rafael Perez. Thank you.

Thank you all for your questions. You can also contact the Investor Relations team of Befesa for any further clarification. We will now conclude the conference call and the Q&A session. Let me remind you that you can find the webcast and the dial-in details to access the recording of this conference call on our website, www.befesa.com. Thank you very much to all of you, and have a good day.