BlackBerry Limited (BB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining the call today. As always, we really appreciate you taking the time. To get today's event underway, let me hand over to BlackBerry's Executive Chair and Chief Executive Officer, John Chen.

Thank you, Tim, and I also add my welcome to everybody who take the time to join us. And this is the first time we actually do an investor call for retail investors. And I hope that is going to -- we're going to be able to do this many times in the future. Today, 2 of my colleagues, the 2 presidents of the 2 business units is going to start -- is going to go into the details of their respective businesses, how they think about their business going forward, their growth, the strategy and so forth. So I believe it will be very interesting to many of you. But other than just adding my welcome here and kick this off, one of the most important things that I'd like you all to think about, while you're listening to my colleagues and going through the materials that we really have a bigger strategy that beyond the 2 operating unit. The 2 operating unit was designed to add focus to 2 very growth -- high-growth markets. One is the embedded IoT market as well as a cybersecurity market. And again, we'll go through those materials. But the more important thing is we strongly, here at BlackBerry, believe that we're going to make a big difference in the world. And just like many years ago, we made a cell phone, that changes how people work, where people work. And we're going to make a big difference in the world by making -- by seeing the convergence of these 2 markets and the convergence are necessary because it created a very trusted platform where everything we're going to be based on what is everything. The society, in general, the smart city, the smart home, the smart offices, your vehicle, all the transportations and the interaction of those. So we have a much bigger view of how it enables a much better life going forward, kind of the next generation. Sometimes I think about this as watching some science fiction movie where all these cars are flying around and the interaction, landing on a building -- the top of the building and so forth. And all those needs a very coordinated data sharing, action sharing and a very trusted environment. So with that, I'd like to pass it back on to Tim to moderate the panel. I thank you again for joining us and looking forward to our future interactions. Thank you.

Thank you, John. So in the room with me today, where I have the President of our cyber business unit, John Giamatteo. Hi, John.

Hey, Tim.

And on the line joining us from Chicago, I have the President of our IoT business unit, Mattias Eriksson. Hi, Mattias.

Hi, Tim.

So we're trying to do something different today. The feedback I've been getting is that the traditional investor conferences or fireside chats, if you prefer, tend to be more focused on institutional investors and less on retail. So today, we want to give you, our retail base, a forum to ask the questions that you'd like to see answered. Now I get lots of questions, and thank you for all of them. But Reg FD, the fair disclosure rules, means that I can't answer a lot of those questions just on a one-on-one basis because otherwise, you'd have some information that no one else has. So by doing this live today, we get around all of that. Now I want to say thank you for the hundreds, I mean, literally hundreds of questions we've had in advance of today's session. So thank you for all of them. Now obviously, we won't have time to answer all of them in the time we've got, but we will focus on those that have come up most often. Don't worry, if you haven't submitted a question in advance, you still have an opportunity to do so because we want to take some live questions today as well. So there's a Q&A box on the screen. Hopefully, you can see that. Please submit your questions in there, and we'll try our best to get to as many as we can. A replay will be available on the Blackberry Investor Relations web page later today. And I'm sure you might be shy, and I encourage you to give feedback on how you think today event. If you think it's helpful and whether or not we should do another one in the future. Okay. So that's enough of that. Lots to get through, let's get going.

Okay. So first question comes from Kathy Hiland. So thank you, Kathy. The question is, is the Facebook lawsuit 100% settled? So it's the question I get an awful lot. Simple answer is, yes. It was settled back in fiscal year 2021. Now we didn't give details at the time for 2 reasons. One, contractually we couldn't. And secondly, it wasn't material enough for us to issue an 8-K either. So hopefully, that settles that question. The next question comes from Fabian Marco. Thank you, Fabian. This is actually for both Mattias and John. I'll start with you Mattias and then, John, if you won't mind on chiming in. So how is Blackberry affected by the current crisis, the pandemic, supply constraints, war in Ukraine? Mattias?

Thanks, Tim, and that's a great question. And the short answer is, of course, that as our customers and partners are affected, obviously, BlackBerry is affected. We currently don't believe that it's going to be as bad as it's been in the last couple of years. And let me give you a little bit of context and maybe frame the answer a little bit. So obviously, this is related to our commercial structure. You remember the IoT business makes most of its money through the software development platform. A significant portion of the revenue comes from royalty that stretches many years out into the future, and that's directly linked to vehicle sales. And if you look back a couple of years, some of you might remember that 2019 was a year with quite a few cars being sold. I think where 90 million depending on which analysts and how you categorize that. we took a major hit in 2020. So car sales dropped very materially down to 74 million, 75 million or so. We actually thought that it would normalize more or less when we did the initial planning for last year. And unfortunately, that didn't turn out to be true. A lot of our customers and partners were caught out last year and so were we. I think the estimates depending on definition comes in around 76 million, 77 million for last year. And if you look at this year, people believe that there will still be issues. There will be growth above last year, but we will still not reach the 90 million we had in 2019. It's a little bit difficult to predict because it varies across regions and platforms and all of those things. Carmakers can also tweak the way they launch vehicles with certain features. So it's really down to looking at each of the carmakers independently. I think the good news from our perspective is that, first of all, the demand is there. If anyone has tried to buy a car over the last 18 months, you know that it's almost impossible to get hold of a car, even a used car. So the OEMs and our customers are trying very hard to solve this issue. They are making progress, but it's a difficult problem to solve. And from our business perspective, when we look at our business long term, obviously, there's short-term pain, but we continue to win designs. So as soon as this grid lock sort of gets resolved, we believe we will benefit greatly from a little bit of a pent-up demand. So the short answer is, are we affected? Yes, and that is included in the current forecast.

Thank you, Mattias. So John, same question.

That's great. And thanks for the question, Fabian. On the cyber side of the business, generally, year after year, we continually see growth in the number of cyber threats that are hitting the market from all different angles, events like solar winds, events like the colonial pipeline, they happen with increasing regularity. Obviously, things like the Ukraine war only further exacerbate that threat level. So when you see the threat level as high as it is through those types of events, quite rightly, you see companies wanting to bolster their defenses and their technology and their protection of their assets and their employees and their information. So our Cylance products have shown time and again to offer the best possible defense against malware and ransomware as these threats increasingly hit us from all different angles. So as we think about the cyber business and looking forward, we see a strong and growing market for our cyber products in the future.

Okay. I'm going to stay with you, John, if I may. We've got a question from Wayne Vandermir. Thank you, Wayne. The question is, with an increasingly hostile cyber environment and BlackBerry having the Gold Standard of certifications, BlackBerry offers a flattish outlook. Why?

Really good question, Wayne. And honestly, there's a couple of different dynamics happening at play here. We're seeing growth in our security products, a really good demand among some of the trends that I just talked about. But we're seeing some headwinds on the management side of our portfolio. Some of you know the UEM technology has been around for many years and that market continues to mature. But unlike legacy technologies like landlines, customers still -- they still need a UEM. They have to manage the access to those mobiles, those laptops, other devices for years to come. So however, the mature market -- when you see a market maturing, you see some commoditization. You see some cheaper solutions, some more generic products that emerge in the marketplace. And that's some of the things that we're fighting. We're seeing that with BlackBerry UEM, especially at the lower end of the market. The key selling point for our UEM is that secure connectivity capability. Nobody offers that same level of security as we do, and it's backed up by many, many certifications. But where security isn't as critical, we're seeing some churn and that happens in that lower end of the market, where we see competing UEMs that tend to be bundled with other products and, therefore, seen as free as -- at that lower segment of the market. So those are some of the dynamics that you're happening. That's secure connectivity capability. It's what we stand for. It's what our large customers, and I think that's the good news. The majority of our UEM customer base is big customers like governments, like financial services companies that place a very high importance on security, and we continue to see really good renewal rates with them. We're also looking at a number of ways to improve our retention at the lower end as well by bundling BlackBerry UEM with other products that will resonate with those customers. So going in the other direction, we're seeing promising signs from our security products. Security, the demand is up. I think we're focusing on the right market with the right products with the right people in place. I think we've done a lot of good work on product releases and enhancements, and we're seeing some really good signs. Things like our Guard managed services, for instance, is doing particularly well as we've launched that -- taking that to market, we've seen some good uptake in that particular area. So there's more to do for sure in the cyber space, but we are seeing good traction, good momentum as we continue to deliver products and solutions that address that market. So on balance, coming back to your question around why we're not seeing kind of a surge in all boats rising with the tide when you combine the headwinds of the UEM in that lower segment of the marketplace, you combine that with the momentum that we're seeing on the security side, it's -- this year, it's largely canceling it out. And we'll give you -- obviously, John and the team will be giving you updates on a quarterly basis on how we're progressing from that perspective. But the good news is we're seeing growth in the part of the business that could continue to grow for many years to come and that's what I'm excited about as we think about the long-term prospects of the cybersecurity business unit.

Wonderful. Thank you, John. Okay. Mattias, so I'm going to switch over to you. So this question comes in from Sean Hopefully, I got your name right there. Sean, apologies, if not. So with the value of the autonomous driving market to be worth over $87 billion by 2030, what are BlackBerry's plans to secure market share?

That's another great question. Thanks, Sean, and I wish we could have some slides. This is an interesting topic. So the short answer is, if you think about the requirements for autonomous driving, they actually play directly into the strengths of BlackBerry IoT in general and BlackBerry QNX specifically. And they are smack in the middle of where we are investing for the multiyear road map. Let me maybe expand a little bit because there's a lot to unpack in autonomous driving. And so if you simplistically think about what is needed for autonomous driving from foundational software, which is our core business for QNX, and if you're going to build an autonomous driving stack that is built on high-performing chipsets. So you need performance from that software stack. And performance is obviously a key value proposition differentiator for QNX. The second thing you probably need from autonomous driving stack is you want to make sure it's safe. You want to make sure it's secure. And that is then smack in the middle of what QNX offers a value proposition and differentiator. And last but not least, if you have an autonomous driving car, the last thing you want is a blue screen of death showing up. You want it to be reliable. So you add these things up, performance, requirements, safety, security, reliability, it is actually exactly what we do. That is precisely the value proposition that we have and the value proposition that we are investing in. If you then look at the journey towards fully autonomous driving, and I have had the great fortune or unfortunate or who you asked to be part of a highly autonomous driving development for many years now. And unfortunately, it sort of pushes out. And it's not just about technology, it's about the regulatory environment and so forth. But simplistically today, you can probably say there's sort of 2 paths. There's 1 path that is built upon the existing ADAS offerings, so I think lane departure warnings, automatic cruise control, automatic braking, the stuff that you might or might not have in your car since a couple of years back. And many OEMs are trying to sort of just evolve that stack and stepwise get to Level 3. There have been some Level 3 announcements over the last couple of years that are good. And if you take that path, the default provider of the foundation of software is QNX. You probably -- if you've been following us for a while, you know about a close relationship with NVIDIA, you know about the design wins that we have announced over the last 2 years, we are the dominant player in that ADAS stack and that is what is shipping now and for multiple years. So we're very well positioned in that sort of incremental approach, if you will. And then there is the other approach, which is throw away everything and start from scratch. And that's typically where the startups went 5 years ago when they started building a completely integrated stack from scratch, not taking into account features and so forth. And we have a number of wins in that area, a number of technology startups that are bet on us and are testing and so forth. The reality is that, that is not a business today. And when it will become a business depends on many things beyond just the technology stack. And I don't know who is going to win in that space. What I can say is that we sit in many of these foundational stacks, and it's going to be a fairly extended journey before we have large-scale fully autonomous Level 3, Level 4, Level 5 vehicles on the road that materially affects sort of the revenue of this business. The short answer again is we are very well positioned for autonomous driving, and it plays into our strengths.

Fantastic. Very exciting. Thank you, Mattias. Okay. Next question, Matt Branigan. Thank you, Matt. BNN Bloomberg reviewed BlackBerry's Q4 earnings recently. The review did not shine a positive light on the company. Rather, during the review, the station cut to a video showing the past CEO introducing a new phone. Is this how you want the company to be highlighted on Canada's top investment show? Well, I'll take this one. The answer is absolutely not. It's certainly surprising, Matt and frankly, quite disappointing that, that would be the case. John Chen has given a number of interviews with BNN Bloomberg, and therefore, it's disappointing to hear that, that was the path they took. The BlackBerry brand is iconic, and there are still some out there that haven't fully heard about what we're doing now. And I mean if we look around, we're the most excited certainly some of the most exciting markets. Mattias there talking about software-defined vehicle, all the exciting stuff going on there. John talking about cybersecurity, these are exciting markets. And when investors do hear that message, they tend to want to know more. So we're out there trying to repeat that message at investor conferences, trying to make it clear exactly what we do and trying to encourage investors to take a look. So in answer, absolutely not, and we're disappointed to hear that. Okay. I'm going to go back to you next, Mattias. A question from Michael Scott. So thank you, Michael. Michael would like to understand the expected revenue model for IVY. It seems like this will be a recurring subscription type of revenue from the software being in the vehicle by itself with revenue splits for the auto manufacturers. Will there be additional revenue splits with developers and the additional pricing of their individual apps for IVY?

It's another good question, and thanks for the question. The short answer is potentially yes. We are making a lot of progress with IVY. And I know not just from this group, but from every other investor call that I have, the top of mind for everybody is, please explain to us exactly how the business model is going to work and how much money you're going to make next year and the year after and so forth. IVY is a dynamic edge cloud software platform. And from that, you can sort of derive that there will be platform business model associated with it. The reality is that we are, at this stage, still running POCs, pilots with customers. We are negotiating with these customers the exact commercial model. And if you deep into the evolution of how the OEM is doing business, you know that many of the OEMs have very different maturity and very different plans for how they're going to play out their business models. So the guiding light for us at this point is we will be flexible on the business model, depending on the customers and partners that are part of the deal. We have said there will be a recurring revenue business model, whether that is usage-based or some revenue share model or time-based that remains to be seen depending on where the customer wants to go. What I will not do is sort of publicly negotiate with people around what that business model might or might not be. That would be a bad idea for us. That would be a bad idea for our investors. And believe me, we are as excited as you are as soon as we have closed the first -- probably several deals, we will come back and explain more how this is actually playing out. But I think you can take comfort in. We have good feedback on the approach. The OEMs, given the different strategies and where they're at maturity-wise, they appreciate us being flexible to accommodate their plans and their strategy for the evolving business models for the cars. It will be a recurring business model. There are many options within sort of platform type of business models. And as soon as we have closed a few deals, we'll come back and tell you more about it.

Wonderful. Okay. John, 1 for you now. It comes from Dave Harris. Thank you, Dave. So the question is, there's been a lot of interest for Cylance antivirus on a retail level. Yet, it's been taken off the store shelf, so to speak at a moment in time where cybersecurity is paramount. Will it become available as an upgraded program on a retail level in the near future?

So on this one, as some of you know, Cylance, when we acquired Cylance, they did have a consumer product at the time of acquisition called SmartAV. But honestly, in the spirit of being balanced, being pragmatic, being focused from what markets we're really going to attack and move for growth, we decided to move away from the consumer segment to this space. There's many possible markets for the Cylance technology, but we believe we really need to focus on where we can have the biggest impact. And right now, we see that with our business customers rather than with consumers. In particular, we're seeing a lot of interest from our small and medium-sized business customers. The government sector is an area where we're seeing robust demand. So delving into a large segment of the consumer space is not something that's really on the radar screen for us. We're really doing it just in the spirit of -- just even as you as investors, you got to focus on where you're good, where we think we've got the biggest impact and that's our intention right now.

Very good. Thank you, John. Okay. I'm going to take 1 of the live questions here. This one is for you, Mattias. So it's from Brian Mar. Thank you, Brian. And the question is, what is your take on Aptiv buying Wind River?

Yes. That got a lot of attention and press, obviously, when it was announced. We are quite pleased. Wind River is what I would label a bit of a legacy competitor for us. They have a slightly different mortgage focus than we have. If you look at their business, they're very strong in aerospace and defense, which is an area where we have not prioritized as strong in telecoms. It's not a prioritized segment for us. We actually don't run into them that much anymore for our core segments. There were a couple of statements within the confines of that press release that I haven't fully figured out yet. There were statements around Aptiv using the acquisition to diversify and so forth that might very well be the case. I think the reality for people really wanting to provide foundational software for the OEMs is that 1 of the key value propositions is this notion that we are neutral and independent and by locking up the foundational software with the Tier 1 that obviously have many other things, both on the hardware and potentially software side and the stack. I think maybe some of the other Tier 1s that previously would have considered Wind River might be a little bit put off by that and not use Wind River anymore. So I wish them luck. I think it's a very interesting acquisition. It's not something that we are worried about.

Very good. Thank you, Mattias. Okay. Next question comes from Wilson Wong. Thank you, Wilson. Will BlackBerry consider doing a share buyback with the patent sale money? So let me take that one. So I can say there is no current plan, Wilson. It's always an option, though, if considered best for shareholders. But I have to say, we've had feedback from a lot of shareholders who actually don't want us to do that. And really, that's because if you think about it, coming back to the point I made earlier, we addressed 2 very exciting markets. So we have the option to invest the capital in those very exciting markets. So right now, our focus is on go-to-market and revenue growth, and we are investing capital to drive that plan. Okay. Moving on, next question comes from TJ [indiscernible] I hope I got that right. John, 1 for you. So many partnerships, but no revenue stream reflected. How do you monitor? Is there a yearly audit?

Great question TJ. Just partnerships, it's not a 1 size fits all. I mean there's a lot of different aspects to our partnership strategy. I would start by telling you partnerships are really important to anyone in the cybersecurity space. And they come in all different shapes and sizes, whether it's our channel partners that -- whether they be distributors, value-added resellers, MSPs, systems integrators, I mean, heck, we're even doing business with Amazon in the marketplace that's transacting with them as a partner. So there's a lot of different partners that we work with to take our products and services to market. So it's an important part of our overall strategy. We even work with the likes of Verizon, Vodafone, TELUS. Some of these big telco companies, they are really looking for new services, value-added services that can help differentiate what they bring to the market. So we think there's opportunities to expand upon those relationships as well. So a lot of different partnerships in terms of how we go to market. There's another set of partnerships, which I would call them more technology-oriented partnerships where we can add partner technologies to give our customers a more complete solution. We don't have every single solution available to us for some of our cybersecurity customers. So having partnerships, great examples, companies like Exabeam in the SIM space, Okta in the two-factor identification space. These are the types of technology partners that just help us bring a richer solution to our customers. So that's kind of the direction. We've got our traditional partners, our product partners. They'll choose us for a variety of different reasons. Obviously, some of these technologies help us kind of bring a better value proposition, but the underlying value proposition around our AI engine, our protection against malware and ransomware, our secure connectivity in the UEM space, these are all things that we believe is kind of the foundation of our value proposition and some of these other partnerships are just a really good complement around that. So hopefully, that gives you a little bit more color about the different types of partners that we work with.

Wonderful. Okay. I'm going to come back to you, Mattias, 1 from the Q&A box from Vincent [ Turacka ]. Thank you, Vincent. So Vincent's question is, do you recognize WEJO as a worthy competitor for IVY? I'm going to broaden that out to little and say, what competition do you see out there for IVY at this point, Mattias? And how do you think we are positioned to get...

Another really, really big topic. And I think the reality is, if you take a step back and you think about the evolution of software-defined car and the car is going to be over the next 3, 5, 10 years. And with kind of data, you need to be able to extract from the different compute environments aggregate, generate insights from and monetize and so forth. Although we were not first to market in this place and although many OEMs have spent the last 5 years trying to figure out how to do this, the reality is that the solution that people really need doesn't exist on the market. And it's an interesting ecosystem because you have many players that compete in some areas and sort of cooperate in other areas. The marketplaces are an interesting stakeholder. Obviously, they have data today. Most of them have bought the data from the OEMs, cloud directly, and they're aggregating it across multiple OEMs and reselling them. IVY is different. IVY is, as we have discussed a couple of times, it's a cloud edge software platform with the very particular value proposition of being so straddling both the cloud and the edge and allowing the OEMs to run sophisticated edge processing in the car, at the edge, touching all the data. That doesn't exist at scale today. It doesn't exist for the evolution of the software architecture. And we believe we have a very unique proposition there, in particular, because the way this proposition was put together, we utilized the leading strengths of AWS in terms of the cloud and the developer ecosystem and so forth and our leading strength and capabilities at the edge. There's literally nothing similar from that perspective. I don't want to point out direct competitors and collaborators because of this dynamic. There are many of these stakeholders that potentially compete for certain aspects of the overall proposition, but could also be a great partner. In general, what I think the ecosystem has in common is that everybody is struggling to get the data they need in order to provide value to their customers from the core in an effective way at scale. And that is what IVY does. And 1 interesting aspect as we have talked about many times is that as the OEM is evolving the software stack, even though they might have an internal solution for certain portions of the data today, they might not necessarily have a solution that works great for the data they have worked on and for the data they will need to extract in the future. I think we are really well positioned. We're getting great feedback. We have great traction, but I want to caveat it with we are at early stages with IVY. We are running our first pilots. I can't wait to see the outcome for it and -- from it. And as that outcome materializes, there will be a very interesting discussion with the other ecosystem partners on the platform business model.

Very good. Thank you very much. John, question coming in from Tom [ Panicon ] Thank you, Tom. What is behind the Cylance rebranding?

Yes. Good question, Tom. I probably wouldn't call it a rebranding, but rather more leveraging the product names that the market is familiar with. One of the things I think we're blessed with as a company is we've got some great brands. BlackBerry is 1 of the most respected brands in the industry. I will tell you, coming from outside of BlackBerry in my first 6 or 7 months with the company, when you call and you say you're from BlackBerry, you get the meeting, highly relevant. The industry wants to speak to you. So we're lucky, I think, to have a brand that is recognized so well out there. But from a Cylance -- from a product perspective, the Cylance brand is very effective. It's something that the cybersecurity space, in particular, has recognized as an innovative cloud prevention first, really a trailblazer from an innovation perspective. So what we've really decided to do, obviously, BlackBerry is going to continue to be our company brand. But as we talk about the cybersecurity platform, we plan to lean in and leverage that Cylance brand as much as possible because the market really resonates with that from a cybersecurity perspective. So I would say we're -- from a product perspective, you're going to hear us talk a lot about Cylance. But obviously, as a complement to the overall BlackBerry value proposition that we bring to the marketplace as well. So hopefully, that answers your question, Tom.

Wonderful. Thank you, John. Okay. So next question, Dale Stefanisko. Dale asks, I'll take this one. John Chen has said that he believes the company is undervalued. Why does he believe this? So I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I like to thank the investors who will agree with me about BlackBerry's great markets that we operate in. And to John's point, at the outset of the call, the fact that over time, this is also coming together. There's a big convergence of these 2 things. But looking in both of the markets, the auto space, cyberspace really don't have to look very far to find companies with very strong valuations. However, it's fair to say the market is waiting for us, BlackBerry, to deliver growth before it will value us in the same way. So we have really strong technology in really strong markets, and we believe we are well positioned to start delivering growth. And we're fully focused on that and we are investing to achieve that. And we believe, to John's point, that once the market sees consistent growth from the company that The Street will take a different view on the value of Blackberry. So thank you for that question, Dale. Okay. I'm going to -- I've just seen a question. I think it's a great question from Arif Ratansi. And I'm going to direct this at both of you guys. What excites each of you about BlackBerry now and 5 years from now? So I don't know who wants to go first. Maybe Mattias, do you want to go first?

Yes. Sure. Yes. So I think it ties back to what you started articulating in the last question. And I think I've talked about this a couple of times before. What excites me about BlackBerry, it doesn't matter if you're looking at the next 2 years or the next 5 years, this business that I'm part of is a long-life cycle business and it runs on years, not on quarters. So the first one is we have large attractive segments that have very attractive economics that we are going after and the segments are growing. They are profitable that is a good starting point for any business. The second thing for me is within those segments, we have unique capabilities and IP and track record to serve the evolving needs within those segments. I joked when I came in and took over the team that I was very happy to see that we actually had more execution and commercial issues than we had engineering issues. There's a very strong engineering capability in IP foundation. And if you don't have that, at least in this part of the business that we are in, it is very difficult to move in the right direction. It takes much longer to build. So strong positioning within these growing attractive segments. And the third one for me is, if I look at the slightly longer time horizon, there are a number of big trends that are actually pushing the industry in our direction and they exist at multiple abstraction levels. But if I were to just recap sort of the 30,000 feet view, if I think about the IoT Edge, at the end of the day, there are more and more of these IoT devices being deployed and that is not going to end in 5 years. It's a long-term structural trend there is on more devices at the edge. These devices are getting smarter, and that is in certain segments and certain parts of the overall industry happening exponentially. And when I say smarter, I mean more compute, more memory, more connectivity, more sensors. When the devices become smarter, they almost, by definition, turn software-defined. And when they turn software-defined, you get a sophisticated software stack that is layered, difficult to manage. You need critical capabilities at different layers, and we provide that foundational software stack. So the trends for sort of our overall industry segments of which we serve small segments are pulling everybody in the direction that we have worked on for many, many years, and that is obviously, from my perspective, a great thing. And then last but not least, and then I'll probably stop before I get carried away here. But last but not least, we have the best customers and partners in the industry. If you make a list of all the various customers that we have served for quite some time, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about chipset makers, if you're talking about technology partners or Tier 1s or OEMs, they're all there. Everybody that you want to work with, they're all there and they are happy with us. They like to work with us, and that is a very unique situation to be in. So for me, when I look at both this year, which I'm very excited about, but also the 5-year piece, things are starting to come together. There are a couple of pieces that for a variety of reasons, we're a little bit disjointed over the last several years, but they are starting to come together. And that is not a single quarter journey or even a 1-year journey. It's a multiyear journey. And I can tell you, we have a kickoff with the team for this year last week and the team is excited. We are excited about the future.

Wonderful. That's great to hear that excitement, too. John, same question to you.

That's great, Mattias. Great stuff. What I would add to that is what excites me when I think about the future of the company, why I actually joined the company 6 months ago, several months ago, I just -- I firmly believe we're in the right market. We've got the right brands. We're in the right market with the right set of products that we're continuing to build out and to continuing to invest in. And we're in growing relevant markets, whether that's the software-defined vehicle and what Mattias' team is driving towards or whether that's the cybersecurity space and all the opportunities that, that represents us. So when you think about a large relevant market, we got a great brand, we got great technology. And the final thing that really -- the great people. We're attracting some of the best and brightest people in the industry. And when I reach out to my network and talk to them about all the cool things we're doing here at BlackBerry, it's amazing, the reception that I get. And so when you think about all of that coming together, I'm really excited about what the future holds for the company. Any business has got some headwinds and some tailwinds and we're absolutely going to work through that. But we're in the right market with the right space, with the right technology and the right people driving execution across the entire company. That's why I'm excited to be part of the BlackBerry team and the future ahead.

Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, both. And thank you to everyone who's joined today. I know you won't be shy and let me know how you felt today went. So please do give us feedback. Hopefully, you felt that you had an opportunity to have your questions answered. And there was some good engagement for you with the company. Do let us know if you think this will be a useful thing for us to do again in the future. So I'm going to say thank you, and have a good day.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.