Bolsa Mexicana de Valores, S.A.B. de C.V. (BOLSAA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Greetings. Welcome to Bolsa Mexicana de Valores Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce Ramón Güémez, CFO. Thank you. You may begin.

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to Bolsa Mexicana de Valores Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Before proceeding, I would like to provide a brief safe harbor statement. This presentation contains forward-looking statements and information related to Bolsa that are based on the analysis and expectations of its management as well as assumptions made and information currently available at Bolsa. Such statements reflect the current views of Bolsa related to future events and are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. Many factors could cause the current results, performance or achievements of Bolsa to be somewhat different from any future results, performance or achievements that may be expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements, including, among others, changes in the general economic, political, governmental and business conditions, both in a global scale and in the individual countries in which Bolsa does business, such as changes in monetary policies and inflation rates, in prices, in business strategy and various other factors. Should one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize or should underlying assumptions prove incorrect, the actual results may vary considerably from those described herein as anticipated, believed, estimated, expected or targeted. Bolsa does not intend and does not assume any obligation to update these forward-looking statements. I would also like to remind participants that today's call is being recorded, and a replay of this call will be available online on June 24 (sic) [ July 24 ] at Bolsa's corporate website, www.bmv.com.mx. This call is intended for the financial community only, and the floor will be open at the end to address any questions you may have. Joining us for today's call are Jorge Alegria, Chief Executive Officer; Alfredo Guillén, Managing Director of Equity Markets; Claudio Vivian, Chief Information Officer; Gabriel Rodríguez, SIF ICAP CEO; José Miguel De Dios, MexDer CEO; Roberto González Barrera, Managing Director of Trust and Chief Information Post-Trade Officer; Luis René Ramón, Chief Marketing Officer; [ Jose ] Manuel Olivo, Managing Director of Listing Services; Hanna Rivas, FP&A and IR Director; and myself. I would now like to turn the call over to Jorge Alegria.

Thank you, Ramón, and good morning, everyone. I hope you are all doing well today. As you know, we released our earnings results yesterday evening, providing comprehensive details on the second quarter of 2025 results. The copies of our press release and slide deck are available at bmv.com.mx under the Investor Relations tab. During today's call, I will first review our ongoing initiatives and then briefly comment on our financial results. Then we will conclude with a Q&A session where we are more than glad to take your questions via the conference call line. Let me begin this call with a short reminder on my vision for the future of our group. My priority is to transform the company into a market leader by launching innovative services across all business areas, supported by top line technology and improved infrastructure, add high-value data with a strong focus on client development and strategic partnerships. We aim to expand our reach to attract new segments and drive sustainable growth. I would like also to share some very good news. As some -- or many of you will know, I'm thrilled to announce that after years of inactivity in the Mexican IPO market, we will be having soon a new transaction. Actually, it should happen in the next few days, and we will be having the FIBRA or the REIT -- FIBRA -- next IPO here at BMV soon. And not only that, we also have 5 confidential filings for equity IPOs in the pipeline, one of them under the simplified listing regulation. So these are very, very encouraging news. We expect to see this happen in the -- hopefully this year, in the next months. And all these, I'm sure you will agree with me, are great news for our markets. Now I would like to briefly address also the situation of 3 financial institutions, which are currently under government intervention. I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to reaffirm the strength and stability of BMV Group. All trading and clearing processes have worked accordingly without any contagion across markets. However, there are still challenges ahead, which must be addressed before the September deadline imposed by the U.S. financial authorities. Together with local authorities, we are monitoring closely all the situation. These events have highlighted the relevance of the role of the central counterparty in the stability of financial markets. Now more than ever, we are witnessing the importance of mitigating settlement and credit risks across all markets. With a CCP in place, it would have been easier to absorb the impact with minimal effect on overall market stability. With this in mind, our efforts are not only focused on the starting operations of our bond CCP as soon as possible, but also on expanding the scope to other securities and repos. Let me continue on this -- on our bond CCP project, which is approaching the final stage of the regulatory audit and regulations in line with the planned agenda. Two successful DRP tests have been executed where we accredit our capacity to isolate incidents between the equity and the bond segments. Potential clearing members, interdealer brokers, our equity CCP and Indeval together with Mexican authorities participated in these tests. Additionally, we are also testing our clearing and risk management processes in our quality system to ensure a smooth kickoff. Participants are finally reviewing documents in preparation for deployment. So the approval to go live will follow once the audit is closed, which is expected to happen during this month of August. The other project that we have been commenting here is the liquidity alternatives for Cigna that is progressing gradually. Clearing members are preparing their regulatory documentation as well. We -- then they will need to have this documentation approved by the regulator. Even though this is moving slower than I expected, I can tell you that their regulator is very supportive of the initiative. Once it is implemented, it is expected to attract volume from OTC market, mostly [ AFORES ] to MexDer and Asigna clearing. Of course, we will continue to share updates as all these things move forward. Another important topic, which I want to give you an update is the new fee schedule for our equity trading segment. We are providing additional information to our regulators expecting to have their final approval soon. However, one key point to emphasize is that the initial impact of the fee reduction has gradually faded away. As current data confirms, we are recovering our market share to 81% of the market. Once approved, we will implement the adjustments, if needed, gradually to avoid reducing fees more than necessary. Of course, we continue working closely with our regulators, not only on this issue, but also on the new hedge fund regulation that has been discussed in the industry. We have made progress in our -- in the derivatives market as well, where we receive approval to list new features and options on the SIC segment of the exchange on the Mexican Derivatives Exchange or MexDer. So we will have contracts on Tesla, Netflix, Meta and Apple soon available for our local customers. And also on the Derivatives segment, we have been actively looking for ways to increase liquidity, as you may know. First of all, I'm pleased to share that on August 18, the S&P/BMV IPC Index future contract will be listed on CME. This effort seeks to enhance the liquidity and visibility of our main index, positioning as the leading and most representative benchmark of the Mexican equity market. So this licensing process, we expect to be very successful to add -- strengthen our global presence and facilitate access for international investors seeking exposure to Mexico. On our efforts to promote the retail market, we have been working on several fronts as well to make market entry easier for this segment. We started by adjusting Indeval conversion fee on the SIC market. So under this new fee structure, trades below $5,000 will be free of charge, a change effective from June 2. This is the conversion fee on the Indeval. This initiative makes retail trading more accessible by significantly lowering the cost of end users. Our next step was a 65% reduction in market data fees for retail platforms. The idea behind this initiative is to make market information more accessible and affordable for retail investors with little impact on our top line. Additional initiatives are underway to support small- and medium-sized companies. In collaboration with the brokerage association and research partner Indexity, we will soon begin publishing investor-focused reports aimed at increasing the visibility of these companies in the market, including the debt segment. Another initiative, which I'm sure you are all well acquainted is the simplified listing regime. And as I mentioned before, we now have a company in the final phase of listing in BMV expected to occur hopefully later this year. There are other potential companies on this path, and we continue actively promoting and providing training to potential issuers. Let me move to our technology initiatives. Last year, BMV Group embarked on a journey to shape the next generation of our business and operational model. We are proud to have internally developed the infrastructure that for decades, made it possible for the Mexican market to grow into what it is today. But now it's time to evolve. We began with Indeval, CCV and Asigna migrating from their in-house transactional systems to a next-generation platform, a very large project we are working today. MexDer is now also joining the transition path to a more forward-looking and flexible trading platform solution. We are in the final stages for selecting a technology supplier for our front end of MexDer. Both Asigna and MexDer are set to be ready by the end of 2026, while Indeval and CCV remain on track to go live in 2027. As we move forward with this transformation, the rest of our systems are expected to evolve accordingly. Our colocation business is also transitioning from a traditional on-site service to a virtual one, a faster, simpler and more flexible which -- with fewer technical requirements. It will help smaller brokers and foreign participants access the equity market and the derivatives market on a more friendly user way. Along with our partner, Beeks, we are about to initiate the first stage internal testing and connectivity and deployment is expected next year. On the new data and commercial cross-business strategy, as I mentioned before, we hired a new CDO, a Chief Data Officer, who joined the team a couple of weeks ago. His role and challenge are set in defining the development of a new paradigm and operating model for our data business across all the organization. And in line with this vision, all these initiatives and efforts are now embraced under the single commercial division of the group, ensuring a stronger alignment across all companies within BMV. In total, there are several commercial campaigns currently active across the different business lines such as the bond CCP, the liquidity alternatives for Asigna, the virtual colocation services and post-trade and network transformation program, obviously, as well as strong effort on the IPC repositioning among others. This consolidation is a key step forward advancing the group's strategy of investing in the initiatives that foster revenue growth. Very important to mention is our ESG agenda. I want to share an important achievement as well. BMV Group was recently recognized by the science-based target initiative for its commitment to prevent the worst effects of climate change. We are now part of a leading group of companies worldwide, including only sustainable stock exchanges that are driving ambitious corporate climate actions aligned with the Paris Agreement. Let me now move on our quarterly and semiannual key financial highlights in the following slides, please. So keep in mind that all figures are expressed in Mexican pesos. So revenues and EBITDA showed 2-digit growth, where revenues were a little over MXN 1.1 billion. EBITDA reached MXN 633 million with a 57% margin and MXN 400 million in net income. Earnings per share were MXN 0.72, up 5%. Accumulated figures also show that revenue, EBITDA and net income grew by double digits. The depreciation of the peso against the U.S. dollar had a financial impact in revenues of MXN 42 million in Q2 2025, basically due to the dollar-denominated service fees. Please turning to the next slide. Let's review the business line -- the revenues by business line. If we look at the Q2 2025 revenue, you can see all our business lines are performing well. Transactional business such as equity and derivatives trading and clearing and OTC trading contributed with a 35% of BMV Group's revenue. The CSD, the Central Securities Depository, Indeval, which is responsible for custody, settlement and global market services, such as the cross-border transactions, participated with 31% of the revenue. Information Services made up of data, analytics, indices, valuation and financial risk management services have an 18% weight. While capital formation, listing and maintenance contributed this year with 12%. So this reflects, again, the well-diversified nature of our business. Let's turn to Slide 8 to go over equity trading and clearing. As I stated before, our transactional business benefited from the market dynamic. Revenue in cash equities trading was up 7% when compared with the same period Q2 in 2024. So the average daily traded value reached MXN 18 billion during the second quarter of 2025. There was a 9% contraction in the local market. However, the global market or SIC grew by 60%, and there was a 35% increase in the number of transactions. As I mentioned before, our market share for the quarter was 81%. On the clearing business, revenues was up 6% with a total of average daily trading volume for both Mexican exchanges was up 12%. The difference in growth rate is explained by cross trades, which require registration but not clearing, and we have a lower fee in the CCV -- in the equity CCV than the regular trades. So with this, let us go now to the next slide please to review derivatives. Q2 2025 revenue for our Derivatives trading and clearing segment increased by 22%, reaching MXN 73 million. MexDer grew 45% -- 44%, led by a higher trading in Mexican peso dollar futures driven by the rollover on the June contract. The average daily volume for the dollar futures reached $454 million, while the open interest doubled the amount compared with 2024. For swaps, the average daily notional value increased 56% compared with the same period of 2024, reaching more than MXN 5,000 million. Open interest here experienced also an upward trend with an increase of 16%. With this in mind, revenues at Asigna totaled MXN 35 million in Q2, MXN 2 million or 5% higher compared with 2024. The average balance of margin deposits in the second quarter of 2025 was MXN 40 billion, 9% lower than the previous year, but year-to-date margin deposits were MXN 44 billion. So these are 3 higher -- 3% higher than the year -- than the previous year. If we move to the Slide 10, OTC trading results are shown. SIF ICAP, our OTC trading -- on SIF ICAP, our OTC trading revenue increased MXN 3 million or 2%. SIF ICAP's Mexico grew 11%, MXN 6 million, while the growth rate at SIF ICAP Chile was negative 2%, representing a decrease of MXN 2 million. In both cases, market dynamism explains the variations. On Slide 11, we have figures for our capital formation business, where we can see that listings revenue increased MXN 2 million, 16%, mainly driven by debt placements and the FIBRA [indiscernible], whose issuance was the largest for the last 13 years. Maintenance revenue was up 4% this quarter due to a higher number of issuance listed last year, 2024, which generates maintenance revenues for this year. Let's move to the Central Securities Depository on Slide 12. On Indeval revenue that we can show a growth of 20%, driven by an increase in assets under custody in both domestic and global markets, cross-border conversions and a higher number of transactions. The exchange rate movement generated a profit of MXN 21 million. Total assets under custody reached MXN 42 trillion in Q2 2025, which is an 11% increase when compared with Q2 2024. Growth in the local market is driven by a notable increase in custody, while the boost in the global market is due to cross-border activity and custody. Just a few years ago, we celebrated the $1 billion in assets under custody in the global market. We have now more than $100 billion in assets under custody in for the SIC segment, which is a reflection of how successful this market segment has been in the Mexican securities industry. Finally, let's move to Slide 13, Information Services. Information Services revenue, which is composed of market data plus Valmer reached MXN 200 million. This is MXN 14 million or 7% more than the second quarter of 2024. Market Data revenues increased MXN 16 million or 13%, and this is mainly attributed to the positive impact of the dollar-peso exchange rate. Regarding Valmer alone, quarterly revenues decreased by MXN 2 million, largely -- or this is 4%, largely due to a high -- a very high comparable base from last year. But overall, the depreciation of the peso against the dollar contributed with MXN 17 million. Let us take a quick look to our operating expenses on Slide 13 and 15. So the operating expenses for Q2 2025 reached MXN 535 million, increasing 6% or MXN 28 million, which are explained mostly by Personnel expenses increased MXN 7 million, basically explained by the annual salary increments and the SIF ICAP variable compensation. Technology, up MXN 13 million because of consulting services, mostly related to ensure our platforms operate smoothly and securely as well as investments aimed to enhance our technology governance practices. Depreciation increased MXN 2 million, mostly because of the new hardware leases for the Storage Area Network. Our rent and maintenance decreased MXN 7 million, driven by canceling provisions. Consulting fees increased MXN 4 million due to internal programs aimed at enhancing the employee experience as well as payment to the Board of Directors linked to the price of gold. Sub-custody is up MXN 6 million as the value of the assets on the custody abroad increased, which also generated additional revenues in Indeval. CNBV increased MXN 1 million, the regulatory fee in line with inflation rate in Mexico. Marketing also increased by MXN 4 million, driven by our initiatives and our participation in global events, higher marketing expenditures, which all these are aligned with our claim -- our new and more aggressive client engagement strategy. Finally, other expenses decreased by MXN 2 million, mostly due to a dividend tax from Valmer Costa Rica. The depreciation of the peso against the dollar led to an increase of MXN 13 million in Q2 2025, mainly in technology and sub-custody. Our total CapEx for the quarter was MXN 68 million, in line with our investment plan. With this, I would like to end my presentation and my remarks. And together with my team are more than happy and ready to answer all the questions you may have. And thank you very much for your time and your attention.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Ernesto Gabilondo with Bank of America.

I missed in the bottom line, but congrats in your operating results, both revenues and EBITDA expanded double digits. So congrats on that. I have a couple of questions. The first one is on your financial results. We noted this quarter, that line was almost half of what you generated in the first quarter and almost half of what you generated a year ago. And this is mainly explained probably because of the FX appreciation and lower rates. So just wondering how should we expect this line going forward? What are your expectations for the FX this year, for next year? And also, if you can also give us what will be your expectations for interest rates will be very helpful. And then my second question is on the fixed income counterpart. As you mentioned, you are already in the final phase, testing some things with the regulator. You already have some participants. But can you give us what is the latest update? What will be the timeline for the implementation of M bonds? When do you expect to do repos? And when can we expect eventually to have an electronic market?

I will ask Ramón to go over your first question on the financial numbers that you may have some questions as well.

As you correctly said, this is due to the lower interest rate and the effect of the exchange rate. I wish we had estimations for these. We'll leave that for the analysts. We don't have or published expectations for exchange rate or interest rates.

Roberto will take the bond CCP question.

Ernesto, what we have done is we've gone through a lot of testing, and we have 2 DRP tests with the regulators. So we finalized all the filings, all the information with them. So we're expecting in the coming weeks to get the final approval to initiate operations. And as Jorge mentioned in his comments, we've been working with the market to engage them and to also work with them to connect with the technology, basically exactly the same system that we have for the equities CCP. So the idea will be to start operations maybe in the last quarter of this year. Regarding repos, we're working also with the Central Bank and the Mexican Securities Commission on all the approvals to be able to include also these types of transactions in the CCP for bonds, and we should get approvals by the end of the year, first quarter next year. And that will depend on how fast we could move to get the technology ready and maybe second quarter next year and be able to provide also that -- those services.

Let me just add the rest of that the -- I guess, the need for a bond CCP or a fixed income CCP has been proven. And we have, as mentioned, 2 banks testing or part of this testing process, 2 or 3 banks. But now we have almost 5 on the line also trying to join on the paperwork for -- to become clearing members. Something very important mentioned by Roberto is that the onboarding is relatively easy because directly or indirectly, all the Mexican institutions through Casas de Bolsa are already members of the equity CCP. So the onboarding process is easier. And the electronic market, I think it's already there. The electronic market is already there. It's not necessarily in Mexico, but there are already platforms offering electronic trading. Some of them will -- are looking to access the CCP as well. And I think we are going to see an evolution of the current electronic services like CPO that are provided already in the market that are going to evolve with the existence of the CCP. And this is only on the first stage of the trading of bonds. The size of the market once the repos are incorporated will be much higher, much bigger.

Our next question is from Pablo Ordóñez with GBM.

Congratulations on the results and the progress on your initiatives. My question is on your CapEx. You mentioned, Jorge, that CapEx for the quarter for MXN 68 million was in line with the plan. Can you remind us what is the plan for the year? Should we still expect this level of $250 million, $260 million similar to previous year because the run rate seems -- in the first half seems to be lower than this plan. That would be my first question.

Pablo, yes, just -- we're not expecting $250 million to $260 million or pesos. And yes, we -- that is our expectation for CapEx.

Okay. And with this in mind and the holdings of cash that you have in your balance sheet, what is the optimal level of cash that you consider for Bolsa going ahead? Do you think that there will be room to take back the buyback activity for Bolsa, Ramón and Jorge?

Currently, the buyback program is triggered by the price of the stock. So we have not been active in the last quarter due to precisely the increase in the price. Regarding our cash position, keep in mind that we have over $1 billion -- MXN 1 billion in reserves. We have the CapEx needs as well. And we'll constantly analyze what our optimal level should be. We plan to continue to distribute cash we don't deem necessary. So we will distribute as much cash as we can. In the past [indiscernible] and that's the idea, at least to begin with.

Our next question is from Yuri Fernandes with JPMorgan.

And again, congrats on the EBITDA trends, revenues growing way faster than your expenses. I have a first one regarding your income taxes that were -- the tax rate was slightly higher this Q, above 31%. I know it can be volatile, some quarters, 27%, 28%, and it's not uncommon to see this above 30% that is the statutory Mexico, right? So just trying to understand what happened here? And what should we think like what is driving your higher tax rate this quarter? And just on your OTC trading on SIF ICAP, when we look versus a longer window, like 5 years CAGR, this is a line that has not been growing, right, or has been growing close to inflation. And I know Chile sometimes can be volatile on FX and things like this. But if you can provide an overview, what should we expect on this line, if you have any initiative, anything that can improve this line, I would appreciate it.

Yuri, thank you for your questions. Regarding the tax rate, this is basically the impact of inflation. Remember that you have a certain amount of inflation that is tax deductible, and that is what's playing with our tax rate for the quarter. Going forward, I would use a 30% tax rate in general, we have a little deviation from that. Regarding our OTC trading expectations for the future, I will let Gabriel Rodríguez, SIF ICAP CEO address that.

Yuri, thanks for the question. As you know, in Mexico, we are -- we have a structure on tariffs that are capped. So regarding the volume, it's very difficult to grow. And that's why you mentioned that we have been growing only with inflation, which is right. We are working highly in coordination to renew our platforms to go more electronic. And we hope that once we have -- the market has a CCP in place, then we can expand our services with electronic markets because different markets can be connected and can be hedged opportunities trading for our customers, which I think will take little by little steps, but it's the right move to go. And regarding Chile, as you know, our market share in Chile is very high, and we depend a lot on the volatility of the market. So there, we have a few accounts that are capped, but the rest is variable and will depend on the volumes.

Our next question is from Edson Murguia with SummaCap.

Just a follow-up on CapEx. What is the key infrastructure or digital initiatives being prioritized? Jorge mentioned in his remarks about several fronts in retail segment, in the market, even with MexDer and so on with the technology. So how are you going to be in the next couple of quarters? Because if the increase is 38% quarter-to-quarter, are we expecting to see these increases? And my second question is regarding on AI. Most of the financial institutions around the world are basically speeded up in artificial intelligence. So my question is how the Mexican stock exchange is using AI or it's part of this initiative. So how can we analyze from going forward?

I think -- we would appreciate if you can repeat your first question. And the second one, I will ask Claudio Vivian, our CIO, to discuss how we are approaching all the AI initiatives in the group.

Yes. Probably, I will phrase the first one in order to understand better the top priorities on the CapEx and technology front. You mentioned that you have different types of initiatives in the retail, in the derivative markets, even with this electronic platform with the fixed income settlement and so on. So how can we identify the top priorities?

Yes, very clear. Ramón, can you please?

Our top priorities for CapEx are the transformation program for the post-trade segment of the business and the bond CCP. The vast majority of our CapEx is intended for the post-trade transformation segment. And regarding how we're using AI, I will let Claudio Vivian address that.

Thanks for your question. Well, we have already introduced AI center of excellence in order to identify and explore all the capabilities that AI can introduce in our operations. We already have some initiatives regarding searching capabilities through our websites. Second is related with surveillance capabilities. And some others are related with the use of GenAI in order to improve the productivity of our collaborators, our employees. You may expect that there are a lot of alternatives that are raising in different arenas. They are not just the 3 -- ones that we're already working on, but there is a lot of work that is happening in this regard and all supported by this center of excellence.

Our next question is from Arnon Shirazi with Citi.

Congrats on the good operating results. I have 2 questions here and my first one is regarding Information Service. I believe that we briefly discussed the opportunity during this conference call. What do you see that could be the main drivers and opportunities for now? And my second question is regarding some kind of technology development such as tokenization and blockchain, if you are trying to push these into the operation.

Arnon, if I understood correctly, you were asking about the Information Services?

Yes, that's correct.

On the first one, on the market data, what we're seeing is that the market -- we've been growing our data double digits for the last couple of years. This was mainly because of our point of presence in New Jersey and the alliance we have with the Deutsche Exchange in Europe. What we're moving forward is in building new added value services, we are building a new colocation platform, which will be up and running by -- probably by the end of the year. And this will be easier to connect for our global clients to provide our data, but also to enter to trade equity and derivatives as it was mentioned earlier. We're also seeing with more AI, with more developments in technology, well, the gasoline for that is data. So we are ready to support our clients are moving in that direction, and we're seeing a division that will continue growing and be one of our main drivers in the next couple of years.

What about the tech development, the technology development?

Well, regarding tokenization and blockchain I would say that the -- one of the objectives that we have related -- sorry, this is Claudio Vivian again. One of the main objectives that we have related with the transformation of the platform in the post-trade has to do with allowing our infrastructure to permit to explore these capabilities in the near future. So this will be happening through the transformation we are working on in post-trade and looking for these capabilities development in the short term.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from Carlos Gomez with HSBC.

I wanted to ask again about CapEx, but my interest is more long term. What is your CapEx plan for 2026, '27 and beyond? How much do you think you will have to spend on a temporary and on a permanent basis? And second, you referred to your expenses, and there was a line in which you mentioned that you had increases in management compensation linked to the gold price. Could you elaborate on that?

Carlos, thank you very much. Regarding the long-term CapEx expectations, at least for the next couple of years, I think we will continue with CapEx in the $200 million to $300 million level. We're currently in the transformation of our post-trade technology. We're beginning to look at next debt. And after that, we will look at cash equity trading. So for the next 2, 3 years, we have a lot of, let's say, technology jumps. We've spent a lot doing upgrades and maintenance to our current technology. But as Jorge explained, we're changing to a new outsourced model or buying the systems from third parties, not developing ourselves anymore and going to the cloud. So for the next years, we expect to continue to see that level of CapEx. Regarding what -- the compensation was management. It was the Board of Directors, and I'll let Jorge address that.

I guess it's an old tradition, Carlos, in many Mexican companies that the Board members received or used to receive a gold coin for their services as Board members. That tradition is fading that I think that is going to be coming out. But that's why if the price of gold goes up or down, there may be some variations on the compensation for the Board. And that's a tradition that is going out -- I think it has been going down. I don't think it's going to survive for maybe the next 1 or 2 years. But it's -- that's the reason why. Yes.

It looks like a good incentive. Maybe you shouldn't phase it out especially if you go to the Board later. So on the CapEx -- sorry, the $200 million to $300 million, that -- do you price that in dollars or in pesos?

We price that mostly in dollars.

Okay. So it will be a fixed amount in dollars or quasi fixed amount in dollars.

Yes.

There are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jorge for closing remarks.

Well, once again, thank you all for your time. It was a privilege for us to discuss our plans and our results with all of you and hear your questions. So we look forward for an exciting second half of the year, and we certainly hope to be able to deliver strong results in the next quarter again. So thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and thank you for your participation.