Bread Financial Holdings, Inc. (BFH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

So thank you for joining, everyone. My name is Terry Ma. I cover consumer finance at Barclays. I'm very pleased to have on stage Ralph Andretta, CEO of Bread Financial; and also Perry Beberman, CFO of Bread Financial. So thank you for joining.

Thank you.

Yes. So let's jump right into it. Maybe let's begin with a quick update on third quarter. First, how our spend trends shaping up in the third quarter, last update. We had during earnings, you mentioned July trends had been positive. So has that continued?

Yes. So as it relates to the third quarter, let me just hit a couple of things. First, we're really pleased when we were able to announce the $200 million share authorization. I think that's an important step in where we are as a company that the confidence of the executive leadership team in tandem with our Board that now we were able to -- we're at the point where we can return some value back to shareholders in the form of share repurchases. And that should be the beginning of the maturation of our capital plan as it relates to some of that return to shareholders. And Ralph will talk more about our capital priorities later. The second thing is in the quarter, we are going to have a discrete tax item, which will be beneficial to the quarter. And so we'll give more guidance on what that means to the full year tax rate during third quarter earnings. And the last thing I want to point out for the quarter is that in this quarter, we'll have an increase in revenue share. So that will impact noninterest income. So it will be a little bit lower noninterest income than what you might find -- what you would have seen in the second quarter. And then so specific to your question on sales, sales momentum did continue, but a little bit at a slower pace. So as you mentioned, July sales were good. And I can almost look at the tale of 2 halves of August. The first part of August had a little bit more of an acceleration in it, and then it slowed down a little bit in the second half of August, but still seeing positive growth year-over-year. One thing I would caution because we get this question a little bit on loan growth with the comp versus last year. I think some folks might be forgetting that we had purchased a portfolio from Saks which came through midway through August of last year. So when you look at the comp, when you look at our stats, that was a $300 million to $400 million portfolio. So you can translate that into 1.5% to 2% loan growth. So that's now lapsed.

Okay. That's helpful. And just the increase in revenue share you just called out, any color on kind of what's driving that? And how persistent will that be kind of go forward?

Some of it's timing. Some of it is -- some of it you pay on a little bit of a lag basis. So some of that should be more seasonal. But again, expect that to largely follow originations. In this case, there's also some renewals that happen and other things that cause some onetime impacts within it.

Got it. Okay. Helpful. So maybe turning to credit. Charge-offs were 7.9% in the second quarter. So improved quite dramatically from last year, largely a function of credit tightening. Obviously, you put out the monthly update this morning. Maybe just talk about kind of credit as you're seeing it in the third quarter and going forward.

Yes. So you saw what we posted today, again, stable versus the prior month, continue that good improvement year-over-year. We still feel very confident with the guide that we gave that the third quarter will land in that 7.4% to 7.5% range and the full year in the 7.8% to 7.9% range. We remain pleased with the improvement that we're seeing in delinquency. And when we say credit tightening, it's a function of a few things. One, I think the general consumer is healing who's in our portfolio. We have taken credit actions early, and those have bear fruit in terms of seeing improvement as well as the continued product mix shift as we put on more co-brand product, which has a little different spend criteria. And one thing I'd also point out is that when you're seeing this improvement, we are seeing the improved delinquency that comes with higher payment rates, which is another thing that does suppress our loan growth a little bit. It also manifests itself into some lower late fees. So all that we'll talk about more and we probably go through some NIM conversation and the like down the road.

Got it. And just maybe touching or following up on the guide for the full year, 7.8% to 7.9%. That was revised lower from your initial guide of 8% to 8.2%. Kind of maybe just talk about what drove this revision? Is it just kind of outperformance? Or like what is it?

Yes. It's largely outperformance in terms of the pace of the credit quality improvement. So delinquencies came down in the beginning part of the year. You saw that through the numbers that we posted. Once you get to July, you have a really good handle on what does that mean then for the balance of the year. So right now, we're seeing really good stability in that early entry rate, and we're seeing some slight improvements in the back-end roll rates, meaning when customers roll from one stage of delinquency to the next stage, we've said that along that we needed to start to see some improvement of that. So once customers get into delinquency, they're starting to see some ability to pay throughout the delinquency bucket, so less result in ending charge-offs. So all these things are culminating in a better credit quality outlook for us.

Got it. That's helpful. And can you maybe just provide any updates on how borrowers with student loans are behaving?

Sure. We've still seen no material impact for customers with student loans, but we have about 20% of our portfolio has student loans. So we -- and we know that at the time of underwriting. We can see the customers who have student loans, who don't have student loans, how they perform, they're basically on top of each other from a delinquency standpoint. Now what we have seen are some customers who have student loans who have not made payments on their student loans are continuing to pay on their credit cards. And what that means is what we saw in the great financial crisis, where you saw consumers do so called making payment hierarchy decisions, meaning they prioritize paying credit cards, which has utility over mortgages, over auto loans, over home equity loans, over student loans because they want to free up some of their credit lines so they can reuse it to buy everyday goods. You're starting to see that now with student loans. So what we are seeing, though, are consumers who have student loans who have not paid, we see on the bureaus, their credit scores are starting to decline. So they're starting to have more delinquency on their bureaus getting reported, and that will impact them from a credit strategy standpoint at card issuers like us, meaning that they might have been eligible for a credit line increase. Well, now they won't be if their scores drop a certain amount or may actually get to a point where the credit score declines to a point where we have to contract their credit lines or freeze their accounts. So we do take that into contemplation. But in terms of delinquency, payment behavior on us, there's no difference between those that have and don't have student loans at this point.

Okay. That's helpful color. And then longer term, you previously guided to 6% charge-offs. How do you feel about that guide and your pace to returning to that kind of target?

We still feel very good about the guide. The pace of how long it takes to get there is largely going to be a function of the churn in the portfolio over time, the credit risk mix distribution that we have for the new vintages coming on and just the general healing of the consumer. I think we've said all along, it's going to be a slow, steady, gradual improvement. I still think that's the case. And the one thing that's unique about us, I think, compared to some of the other big issuers is that we don't -- we say there's a through-the-cycle view that we should get to around that 6%. But we're not driving the portfolio there through contractions that would limit profitable growth. So for us, we talk about underwrite for profit, meaning that think about every customer, every vintage we put on, it should deliver a certain return and get us to that, I'll say, that 6% view. So when we look at month on book vintages, is the new vintage tracking to deliver both the return, but also that loss trajectory we're expecting. So the new vintages are aligning to, say, the 6%. Well, if you were running at 8% losses, you're putting on 6% new vintage, you're gradually going to bring down the overall portfolio loss rate as it blends in. We could have taken a more dramatic approach if we were maniacally focused on getting to 6% and say, okay, we're going to put on new vintages at 4% loss rate and you would accelerate that pace of improvement, but we'd be foregoing the profit and the return that we like for that vintage. So again, we've maintained, we underwrite for profit. And so it just means we're going to see a slower gradual improvement over time.

Okay. Got it. So maybe turning to loan growth. You touched on that a little bit. You're currently guiding for growth to be flat to slightly down year-over-year by year-end 2025. How are you kind of tracking to that guide? And then maybe digging in a little bit deeper, is there any interesting behavior you can kind of call out with the cohorts?

So I think we'll be -- we're tracking to our growth of slightly down. I think our loans will be slightly down. I think the primary reason is, and I think Perry mentioned earlier, we're seeing payment rates improve. So we're seeing payment rates improve across all VantageScores, which is a good thing. But while payment rates improve, so does our loss rate. So that's a nice trade-off. We'll get a little less loan growth, but we'll see improvement in the loss rate. And again, it's across all VantageScores, not any particular segment.

Anything in particular that you think is kind of driving that improved payment rate?

You know, it could be a whole host of things, right? So we're seeing people pay -- the 0 pay is going to do, and we're seeing -- so we're seeing that happen. The decline in gas prices is helpful to us. So if you think about when energy prices come down, that really affects the -- our customers in our portfolio. So we see that, and they have more disposable income and they tend to pay down a bit more.

Okay. And then obviously, you, like many other lenders have tightened underwriting over the last few years. When would you start to feel comfortable kind of unwinding or loosening those tightening actions again?

Yes. So we tightened underwriting responsibly, right? Because I think that's the right thing to do when you've got a macro environment that's turbulent, you really focus on tightening and being very focused on where you will loosen. So what I think will happen going forward, I think credit is getting better. It's not where it needs to be yet. It continues to get better, but more work to do. We'll look at the macroeconomic environment, we'll look at interest rates, we'll look at inflation, we'll look at payment behaviors of our current base. And then we'll decide where and when and how we actually either loosen, keep or tighten in some degree, some of our strategies. It's going to be gradual. It's going to be an evolution, not a revolution. We're not going to just open up the buy a box. It will be over time and gradual. As the economy improves and things get better, we will continue to be -- to open up as appropriate.

Got it. And I guess, looking out longer term, are you still expecting mid- to high single digits kind of loan growth? And kind of where do you see additional opportunities in terms of kind of verticals or new products?

Yes, I do. I mean we talked about in Investor Day, our mid- and long-term targets. Our mid targets were mid-single digits and longer targets are higher single digits. I still see that as we go forward. We have a good product mix. We have private label. We have co-brand. We have our proprietary products. We have installment loan. We have buy now, pay later. So we have a basket of really good products out there that help us with our installed base. That's a really good thing. Our 10 largest partners are booked to the end of -- almost the end of the decade, at least 2028. So having those negotiations behind us really focuses on how do we grow -- how do we grow with those partners going forward. New partners have come on like Crypto.com has come on recently. It's a new partner that really accelerate as we go through the next couple of years. And as credit abates, it will give us a nice tailwind. So as we see that. So all those combinations of things really give me confidence that the mid-single digits in the midterm and higher single digits on the long term is there for us.

Great. Maybe just switching gears, turning to NIM. It's been lower this year, a function of several different things, credit tightening, lower late fees, improved credit and just overall product mix. How should we think about the NIM in the medium and longer term? And particularly as you kind of mitigant start rolling through the portfolio?

Yes. So I think you called out a lot of the moving parts within net interest margin. And that is one of the hardest things for our teams to forecast and certainly as analysts and investors alike, just starting with the fact that there's going to be a little bit of a headwind as interest rates start coming down. We're still slightly asset sensitive. So you can think about some of that pulling through offsetting some of the, we'll call it, the tailwind of some of the pricing actions we've taken to put increased APRs in market what used to be the late fee mitigation. But even on that one, I think there's a little bit of a misnomer out there that we did a wholesale pricing change across the entire portfolio. We've been saying all along, we work with our partners. We are very deliberate in how those pricing changes were rolling out. Some partners adopted that early with an agreement on the revenue share or investment back in the program, some came along a little later in the cycle, and some were never agreeing to changes in advance of the actual late fee change. So they didn't participate in that. So -- and then any time you do an APR change, we've talked about, it's years before it fully builds in for the ones that we did change. But we'll continue to work with the partners on that and how that influences NIM. It will be slightly accretive over time. But the tailwind that you talk about -- I mean, the headwind of -- as delinquency improves, it's great for payment rate, great for charge-offs down the road. But near term, there's fewer incidences of late fees. So that's a drag on yield. But you also do have a tailwind of improving losses. So you have less reversal of interest and fees. So you're going to get that normalized inflection point at some point, I would think next year or the year after, where the NIM has stabilized from all these counter forces. And at the same time, as you improve the credit mix of the portfolio, I'll say, better credit risk scores have lower interest rates. And so your top line yields are lower, but also has lower reversal of interest and fees from charge-offs. So lots of moving parts. But I expect overall, it's going to be pretty stable. We'll give -- obviously guide as we get to each new year, try to say, "Hey, here's what we think is going to happen for the year," and adjust as we go.

Yes, it sounds like there's a lot of moving pieces. But at least in terms of the tailwind from, I guess, higher APR, like any sense or color you can kind of give on kind of what inning you're in, in terms of kind of that pricing kind of rolling through and benefiting portfolio?

Can you say it one more time?

In terms of the APR increases, like what inning are you kind of in...

Oh, inning. I think we are probably in the seventh, eighth inning of the pricing changes. But in terms of the impact, it just takes time. And then there's discussions with partners even now, like some partners are good with it as it is. Working on the revenue share component. So we give more back. Some want a better value prop for the customer. As we've talked about all along, what we would do is like I don't see you as business as usual. And then with some -- they don't love, say, the paper statement fee. We love it because it gets people digital, and that's the new breed of customer who is very digitally inclined. But if there's some that they're concerned to getting too many calls coming in, okay, so we roll that back in that place. Others are very good with it, and they understand it gets a lower servicing costs and they improved their revenue share.

Got it. I guess on that point, like what percentage of your partners have kind of thought about or have you talked to about kind of rolling back some of the mitigants?

I don't even put a sign of percentage to it. I think it's just business as usual, how do we grow the relationship? How do we grow the economic value of the partnership for us, for them and for the customer. So...

Yes. I think that's right. It's an ongoing conversation with partners. Pricing, it's not a onetime or twice a year. It's an ongoing conversation. And it's about being competitive, right? So they have a competitive set. So we want to be right in the sweet spot in that competitive set. They don't want to be on the high end. They don't want to be on the low end. They want to be right in the sweet spot. And so that's how we think about it, not as we're going to raise rates to make profits. Will we be competitive? Are we going to be able to acquire cards? Are people going to spend on these cards because it's a competitive rate.

Okay. Got it. That's helpful. And then maybe just on the allowance coverage ratio, it's lower year-over-year. A lot of that due to positive credit performance and also a mix of products. What's the outlook for that?

Yes. I think we've talked about this that you could see where we were going to see some [indiscernible] towards peaking in loss rate, as you saw in the second quarter, could still have a lower reserve rate, and we lowered our reserve rate in the second quarter despite having elevated losses because the delinquency is one of the most important feeds into the CECL reserve model. I would expect as credit improves going forward, you're going to continue to see that rate come down. I expect it to be probably pretty stable in the third quarter, but then seasonally drop in the fourth quarter. And does it drop in line with seasonality or a little better than seasonality will be more so dependent on how credit quality is performing as well as what are the economic outlooks that we put into the model. Again, the last reduction that we had in the rate was solely driven because of the credit outlook, not because we started to adjust back towards more of, I'll call it, neutral position on the credit risk overlay that we have in there. And so that's still an opportunity as we have more confidence in what the outlook will be for the economic views that we still expect to move back towards a more neutral position versus right now, we're very heavily weighted into those what we call adverse and severely adverse scenarios for that credit risk component.

Got it. Got it. So maybe we'll switch gears. How are you seeing competition in the partnership space shaping up? You recently renewed your Caesars partnership. Can you just expand a little bit on your thoughts on that as well as how you look at the partnership pipeline?

Yes. So not to date myself, but I've been doing this for about 30 years. So I've seen partners and it's as competitive now as it was when I first doing this. Entrants may be different. Products may be a little bit different, but the competition is there. We are absolutely uniquely positioned to compete well. So as I mentioned earlier, our renewal rate, our biggest 10 are renewed to almost the end of the decade. That's a really good stat to have. We have a full product suite. So even when we're competing, we're not competing just on a PLCC card or buy now, pay later. We go with a basket of products, right? We can give you buy now, pay later, pay in 4, installment loan, private label, co-brand. We can even do deposit raising if we had to with some partners that we do. So it's a complete set. And that really bodes well with the industry. We have a very seasoned team that's respected in the industry. That bodes well. So our -- we've had a really good hit rate. We've had really good response to our offers. As you mentioned, crypto, there's other things we're seeing that will come down the pipe, but we feel really good that we can compete up and down the spectrum. So -- but our sweet spot is probably that $100 million to $500 million portfolio. You get those de novo. They're easy to integrate. There's not a lot of custom to do. You get them at a really good price. You grow them and you don't have to put up a lot of capital in the beginning because you're starting from scratch. So those are the ones that we've really grown. And we've had ones that have grown into terrific portfolios like Ulta. That was a de novo, and it's now become one of our bigger portfolios. So we feel good about it. Competition is always going to be there. We're always going to be competing. It's not just on price, but it's about experience and product, and we feel good when it's about experience and product because we've got them both.

Got it. Maybe staying on the point of de novo partnerships. What are you seeing in the pipeline for that? And where are some opportunities that Bread can tap into?

You know, it's across the board. We see it in a number of different industries, and we're pretty happy about that. We'll see it in furniture. We'll see it in home goods. We'll see it in travel and automotive. So across the board, we see a lot of de novo partnerships. And again, that's right in our sweet spot because we can get them up and on board pretty quickly. But right across the board, we see a lot of those. And again, they're good for us, they're not capital intensive in the beginning, and they're easy to integrate. And it's just a -- again, growing with them is really the right way to approach.

Got it. And what's the, I guess, level of competition like for those de novo partnerships? Like what is it about Bread that allows you to kind of keep winning those?

It's the -- I'm going to go back to the experienced team and the reputation the team has. Pricing always comes into it, right? Pricing is always an issue. But our team is really respected in the marketplace. We're known and we're -- we joke about it. We sit on a table. It's 200 years of experience on one side of the table. But not everybody has 200, but pretty close. But it's the experienced team, it's the reputation that we have in the marketplace and the products that we offer. So we have a really diverse set of products. So a partner can say, you know what, I want to co-brand and I want to have installment loan, and we can give them both. So I think that helps us really bodes well for us in terms of the competition. And some of the traditional partners just aren't there anymore, right? So you think they're off doing different things, particularly the larger ones in terms of acquisitions and mergers. And it gives us the opportunity to kind of focus on what we do best, which is these de novo partnerships.

Great. And then in terms of products, comparing private label to co-brand partnerships, what's more attractive for Bread and why? It certainly seems there's been an increasing shift in mix to co-brand compared to private label. So maybe just walk us through your thought process between the two?

Yes. So I'll start with, every portfolio has a job and a greater portfolio, right? Every portfolio doesn't do the same job. So if you think about private label, private label is high returns, but a higher risk, right, a higher loss rate. And you think about our co-brand portfolios, they're good returns, but the loss rate is lower. So it helps you balance to that 6%, right? It helps you balance your loss rate. And with co-brands, which we didn't have, if you rewind us 5 years ago, we didn't have outside spend. We now have general purpose spend. So if you think about where people are spending money if they're spending money on nondiscretionary, years ago, we wouldn't have been able to catch that spend. We have that spend now. About a little over 50% of our portfolio spend is on that general purpose co-brand spend, which I think is a really good spend. And most of our partners have -- offer both cards, right? So we have a private label card and a co-brand offering. And the co-brand is -- sometimes it's not the top of wallet card. It's a card that they'll spend on to get points at that particular partner. But we find that the returns are very acceptable and the loss rates are acceptable, and it balances the higher loss rate, but the higher returns in the PLCC. And then you throw in installment loan and pay in 4, which are also really good products for us. And we even have 2 proprietary products out there in the marketplace. So like I said, a full suite of products that we can offer any partner.

Got it. I guess when you look at your full suite of products, what do you think is most exciting for you? And where do you see the most growth potential?

I think there's growth in installment loan, quite frankly. I think there's a lot of growth in installment loans as we move forward. I think we'll continue to see growth in co-brands as people use these products because they want to -- they're engaged with the brand, but they also need to buy nondiscretionary items. We'll continue to see growth there. I think private label will always be a part of our portfolio. It's not going to be the biggest -- highest growing part of our portfolio, but I think we'll always be there. So I'm bullish on -- what I like about our portfolio that makes me excited, is we have a lending instrument. For no matter where you are in your credit journey, we have an instrument for you from pay in 4, private label, co-brand, proprietary card. And again, we can raise deposits as well. So we have a full suite of products. That's what makes me excited.

Got it. So crypto has been highly topical this year, particularly in the card space. You recently partnered with Crypto.com yourself to launch a new card. Can you expand on the opportunities you see in that space? And also maybe just talk about the risks that you're kind of mindful for?

So just to be clear, we're not exposed to crypto. So just to be clear, it's a natural -- native currency card. But what it has done for us is when you partner with a tech-forward company like Crypto and they say, well, Bread Financial has the technology know-how to meet our needs. So we've integrated to -- with their native app for acquisition. That's given us a halo effect. So as we go to the marketplace, people see that we are tech forward and we're kind of state-of-the-art in our technology. That has helped us a great deal as we go to the marketplace and look for -- and work with other partners. And quite frankly, working with crypto has taught us what it's going to -- showed us what it takes now to be competitive in the marketplace and things that we have to do. So early days, a really good product, high spending engaged base, but early days on the product, but we were really pleased to be chosen by Crypto.com.

Got it. Maybe we'll switch gears and turn to capital. You touched on it a little bit at the beginning of the presentation, but you recently announced a new share buyback program of $200 million. Your CET1 ratio is about 13% and at the lower end of your medium-term guide. How are you thinking about the uses of kind of capital? And also, how do we reconcile your buyback authorization with the commentary last quarter that you're going to treat capital in the third quarter?

Yes. So I think what -- the demonstration of the authorization was that we hit the marker in the quarter on the low end. And it also demonstrates the confidence we have in continual capital generation, capital accretion in the third, fourth through the first quarter of next year. So we look at -- we're doing an authorization, like any company is doing authorization, you're looking at maybe the next 12 to 18 months out to see how much available capital will you have, what capital generation will be there, what uses will you have? For us, Ralph has said from the early days, we're going to stay focused on our capital priorities, which is to grow the company responsibly, invest in technology and the things we have to do internally, pay down our debt and then return capital to shareholders. This is the first step in hitting that fourth leg of the stool with returning capital to shareholders, and it's just the beginning. So what that says is we have confidence that in the third quarter, we will be above the mark where we said we were going to be in that 13% to 14% range, I think about the midpoint, right, and that we will have some capital return. I mean the $200 million carries us into next year. It's not all expected to be used this year. But I think it's a statement of where we have matured to and now we can do all these things. And I would expect at some point next year, we'll obviously then have another authorization in market for -- that will carry us into '27. So I think this is the time now we're starting to see the maturity of our capital priorities and us delivering on what we said we were going to do. And when we manage the company as we are, again, Ralph talked about that mid-single-digit growth in the near term or midterm and where we go. Again, if we're focused on doing the right thing, make sure we get the right returns and driving ourselves towards that mid-20s% ROTCE, which remains in focus as well. So I mean, I feel very good about the capital, the capital ratios and the other thing that's going to happen next year, hopefully, is if we enter the preferred market, we'll further optimize our capital stack. So the binding constraint within our capital ratios have been 13% to 14%. Maybe we can get it optimized to 12% to 13% over time. That won't happen probably next year alone. But it just, again, is a continued maturation of our capital stack and the strengthening of this company.

I couldn't be more pleased. When Perry and I joined, it wasn't -- our aspirations were just what we said, invest in the business, pay down our debt, keep our metrics high and return value to shareholders. Now we don't have to choose. We have capital to do all 3. And I think that's a really good position for us to be in. It's been over the last few years to get there. But I'm pleased about the progression we've made.

Great. We have a little less than 10 minutes left. I'm going to pause here and opening it up to the audience and see if there's any questions. Questions, anyone?

They're not this quiet in the roundtable that we do in the one-on-one meeting.

No. Everyone's shy in the audience usually. So maybe I'll have one more. Like with the late fee rule out of the way, are there kind of any concerns you see on the horizon on the regulatory front for cards?

This administration has been more business-friendly, which I think is a really sigh of relief as we move forward. But it's not to say there's state regulations that are out there that we have to address. And those are more difficult to address because it's like a house-to-house battle. One state has -- talks about interchange and other state talks about an interest rate cap, and you've got to address those one-on-one. So to me, that's where I probably see regulation as a concern for us as we move forward. Settling on tariffs will be very welcome as we're seeing -- we're seeing change -- it's kind of fluid. So getting that settled will be a good thing as well. But to me, it's -- as we look out, we have our eye on state regulation.

Okay. Got it. One more time. Any more questions from the audience? Okay. So one more for me. Maybe just talk about tech. AI has been quite a catch phrase recently. Maybe just talk about that. Anything you're looking at in that area that could potentially benefit?

Yes. So I'll start. I want Perry to chime in, too. So our approach has been to be a fast follower, right? Not to be on the cutting edge, but to be a fast follower because we want to invest thoughtfully and wisely. So what we did is we took a step back and said, where are our use cases? What challenges do we have as an organization? And then how could AI solve those problems? Instead of going out and say, I want to invest in AI, now I'm going to go look for a problem to solve, right? So -- and I'll give you a couple of examples. So one is a requirement, we have to listen to all our phone calls, right? So we have to list all our calls, right? And we would do that. And then you would sample a portion of those calls to look for complaints and trends. We used a whole bunch of people to do that, only listen to 2% or 3% of the calls. Now with AI, we can listen to the calls and then get trends based on what we're learning from those calls. That's a big change. I can go to the regulators now and say, "Hey, we listen to 100% of our calls. Here are the trends, here's what we're seeing. And by the way, the next step is we're going to take those trends and we're going to train our reps." So those complaints -- we can abate those complaints. That's a really practical use of AI. We have reps in the field, and we have this technology where AI is learning what the customer is asking and how the customer is asking and the reps could pull down on that to solve the customer's issue faster and more satisfactory to the customer. That's continuous learning. So those are practical uses for us for AI that make good sense for the business that we're in. And we'll continue to find those across the organization.

Okay. There are no more questions, I think we'll wrap it up there. I'll let everyone off for lunch.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.