Brookdale Senior Living Inc. (BKD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
November 10, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Albert Rice
analystHi, everybody. I'm A.J. Rice, the healthcare services analyst at Crédit Suisse. We're very pleased to have, as our next presenter, Brookdale Senior Living. From Brookdale today, we have Cindy Baier, President and Chief Executive Officer; Steve Swain, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Kathy MacDonald, Senior Vice President and Director of Investor Relations. We're going to do this as a back and forth, a fireside chat type of format, but I thought, first, Cindy, I would pass it on to you for anything you wanted to highlight. I know you guys had an 8-K released this morning as well as just recently reported your fourth quarter and any key takeaways from that you'd like to level set people with.
Lucinda Baier
executiveA.J., thank you so much for having us. We're very grateful to have the opportunity to talk with you today. We do have 2 new pieces of information to share, which are both pretty exciting. First, this morning, we posted a new investor presentation that shows that we received $67.5 million of funding from Phase 2 of the Provider Relief Fund. We are just so incredibly grateful to HHS and the states for the grants that we have received. And second, we wanted to let people know that to provide additional visibility for the interim period starting with our November results, we'll start publishing monthly occupancy. We expect to continue to publish until we return to financial guidance, at which point we would return to our historical practice. So that is our good news to start with. And then it would be remiss if I didn't say how excited we are about the announcement of a potential vaccine for COVID-19 and to highlight that senior living is prioritized to receive vaccines in our communities. Our expectation would be that Brookdale residents and associates in the communities would actually get the opportunity to get the vaccine when available through a partnership with CBS. So that's something that really is exciting for us. And certainly, during our last earnings call, we highlighted just the swift and robust actions that Brookdale has been taking to strengthen our operations and our financial positions and to be a clinical leader during the COVID-19 pandemic, and this all fits right into that.
Albert Rice
analystNo, that's great. That's great. Just because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening that would probably not be as familiar with the up to the minute of the Brookdale's story, like many health care providers, health care companies, you experienced a significant dip in occupancy, I guess, or in whatever you want to call it earlier in the year and you have been steadily rebounding, as you point out. Maybe just walk people through that, if you don't mind a little bit.
Lucinda Baier
executiveCertainly. Let me just start with an overview of sort of our business.
Albert Rice
analystOkay.
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo based on September year-to-date, our business is 83% senior living and about half of our communities are owned. The rest of our communities are either leased or managed. We have 12% of our business that's health care service, and 5% of our business is managed. Now because of our size, we've really been better positioned to manage through the pandemic because of our clinical and operational expertise and our ability to achieve economies of scale. We have done a lot on the cost side and particularly, our health care services benefits from the volume of purchases in senior living. Now on the senior living side, if you go back to the beginning of the pandemic, on March 17, we actually withdrew our guidance because it was very obvious that the pandemic was going to have a very significant impact on our industry, and we needed to close our communities to visitors as well as to prospects. And so as you might imagine, that had quite an impact on the number of people who were willing to move into a senior living community when they couldn't necessarily see the community in person or meet the people who would be helping to take care of them. So we have been very excited to see the recovery that we have had in move-ins from that low point in April through the month of October. In fact, we've seen a 78% improvement in move-ins during that window. So that's something to be encouraged by, just the improvement in the trajectory of move-ins.
Albert Rice
analystAnd when you think about people being able to get into the facility and see, are your facilities across the country opened for that now for people to consider potential for it or is there still some closures?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo 95% of our communities as of October 30 are open for new move-ins. And the vast majority of the communities are open to prospects touring the community prior to moving in as well. There are a few states that still have restrictions on prospects touring prior to moving in.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. And we obviously are reading about these little mini surges around the country. Does that -- if they're open, they're staying open? Or when you have a little surge like that, you have to consider closing them? Or how are you responding to the surges?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, so we're very proud of our 40 years of strong infection control protocols. And our experience with COVID-19 has been really quite strong. As of October 31, only about 1% of our residents have a positive COVID test result. And what we know is that because we've got strong infection control protocols, we've been able to demonstrate that to the state and local licensing jurisdictions. And so we've largely been able to keep our communities open even during the spread of COVID in the broader metropolitan areas that we operate in.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. As you said before, you think the launch of the vaccine will be prioritized for your people. Do you think most of your residents would proactively take the vaccine? If you surveyed and asked them whether they'd be willing to take it if it's available to them?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, the one thing that we know is that every year, we conduct flu clinics for our residents and our associates. And we do have strong participation in those clinics. We also know that the risk of a bad outcome, if a resident at our communities contracts COVID-19, is quite high. Our residents generally are in their 80s or higher and have multiple comorbidities. So there are a lot of really good reasons for our residents to want to take a vaccine. Now we've got time to do education within our communities. We have 6,000 nurses, an unmatched number of nurses in senior living. So we are optimistic that most residents and associates will welcome the opportunity to be protected from COVID-19, particularly if the effectiveness of the vaccine is in that 90% range that we've all seen reported in the news.
Albert Rice
analystYes. Yes, that makes sense. And you said you're working with CBS. Is that their Omnicare operation that would come into the facilities and administer the vaccine? Is that the way it would work for you guys?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe absolutely do have a strong partnership with Omnicare. And the vaccine clinics would be conducted in our communities.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. Interesting. So we talked a little bit about the influx of residents and what's happened there. How about on the attrition side? Has the pandemic had any impact on the rate of move-outs or -- in any material way?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo we are very pleased that on a year-to-date basis, our controllable move-outs are better than last year. Now it's fair to say that COVID has been quite the year. So certainly, in the second quarter of the year, when the entire world sort of sheltered in place, our residents did the same, and we saw a very significant reduction in controllable move-outs in the second quarter. Now we expected that when the U.S. opened back up that our move-outs would return to more of a historical norm, and they have done just that. But we've seen on a year-to-date basis, our controllable move-outs are better than they've historically been.
Albert Rice
analystAnd as you think about the revenues or the rates at which you're charging on both the residents that are in place, obviously, they get annual increases as well as the new move-ins, have you done anything different to respond to the dynamics you laid out on the volume side?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe've absolutely been a nimble organization, and we're very happy that in the third quarter we are actually able to get a 60 basis point sequential improvement in RevPOR, which is revenue per occupied room, and that translates -- that's on a same-store basis, and that translated into a 70 basis point sequential improvement in same-store NOI. Now it's fair to say that the vast majority of our industry operates 5 or fewer communities. In fact, 90% of our competitors are small competitors that operate 1 to 5 communities. And so what we see in local market is very local, and our team has been very good at protecting the rate, but also making sure that we're responding to the local market conditions that we see. I don't know, Steve, is there anything that you want to add to that?
Steven Swain
executiveNo, I think you basically covered it. Just a quick reminder that reported RevPOR includes in-place resident rates. So pricing actions of new customers or new residents, they're not immediately seen in the weighted average price. And like Cindy mentioned, we attribute these strong rates to both the move-in pricing discipline that we have as well as the ongoing benefit of our annual price increase, which happens every January. So we're planning to have our January price increase in a couple of months.
Albert Rice
analystHave you announced on average what that is across the portfolio?
Steven Swain
executiveWe haven't. It's likely to be -- it's not likely to be stronger and probably a little bit softer from previous years.
Albert Rice
analystRight. I was going to ask on your -- what is it 0.6, I think you said same-store RevPOR increased...
Steven Swain
executive60 basis points, yes.
Albert Rice
analystYes. 60 basis points. Is that -- how does that compare to a normal year, if there had been a normal year?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe were happy to see the sequential improvement between Q2 and Q3. It's often the case that your strongest rate increase is in the first part of the year. Because as Steve said, on January 1 you do your in-place rate increase. And so the fact that we were able to see that increase between Q2 and Q3 is something that we're really very proud of, particularly in the toughest operating environment in our lifetimes.
Albert Rice
analystRight, right. And I'm jumping around a little bit here. But on the competitive landscape, you alluded to sort of what your competitors look like, a handful of facilities would be typical for most of them as opposed to a national player. What -- how are they responding? Or do you think you're in a position to gain share vis-à-vis them? And what would be the driver of that share gain?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, throughout the COVID pandemic, our top priority was the health and well-being of our residents, our patients and our associates, and we have unmatched clinical centers of expertise and other centers of expertise. So what we really tried to do was to create that leadership position. And I think that we have done just that. If you look at some of the messages that we've received, Brookdale has been rated highest of any operator on our COVID-19 response, and that was an independent panel that we did of the top 10 markets that Brookdale operates in. So again, I think that people recognize just how strong our response was to COVID-19. It's also important that 50% people who are actively searching for senior living rated Brookdale as excellent. And believe it or not, Facebook actually selected Brookdale as an exemplary leader of social media for our COVID-19 response. So we have taken a disciplined clinical and strong operational approach to infection control during COVID-19. That's something that small competitors just can't match. I think a lot of small competitors really have done the best that they can but it's been harder for them to keep up with all the clinical protocols as well as to obtain PPE. COVID-19 is one area where size and scale has really mattered. We were able to reengineer our supply chain, screen hundreds of vendors to get the products that we needed to protect our residents, and that's something that we're very, very proud of.
Albert Rice
analystI understand that, that's helping you reassure the residents you have and get new ones. But some providers are talking about that PPE cost as being meaningful enough that it moves the needle on cost and some of the other infection control things they're having to do. How does that shake out on the grand scheme of things for you guys on a cost perspective?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, we're really happy with the fact that, on a year-to-date basis, we've received $106 million of grants from the government. Those do not have to be repaid. And year-to-date, our COVID-19 response costs are about $95 million. So there's no question that the battle against COVID-19 has been expensive. But we're grateful that we were able to play a key role in convincing the government, HHS in particular, of the critical need of senior living and to get that support to offset some of the very significant costs that we've incurred as an industry to protect our residents.
Albert Rice
analystAnd I was going to ask you about that. The $95 million of COVID cost, different people are putting different things into those numbers when they talk about their COVID cost. What is in COVID cost for you guys?
Lucinda Baier
executiveThat sounds like a perfect question for Steve.
Steven Swain
executiveWe break it into 3 chunks. So 50% of the COVID costs essentially are PPE. So as Cindy mentioned, $95 million, so about a little less than $50 million of PPE. And we've really built up a nice inventory of PPE in the second quarter, and we're using that PPE in the third and fourth quarters. So that's why from the second quarter to third quarter, our COVID-related costs dropped about 60%.
Albert Rice
analystRight.
Steven Swain
executiveThat's 50%, 25% and 25%. So another 25% is labor. And so year-to-date, it's a little less than $25 million...
Albert Rice
analystThat's what you're paying for given bonuses for hero work or premium pay or what is that?
Steven Swain
executiveThere was a little bit of that just as we have direct frontline associates responding to the COVID virus and interacting with residents. There was some premium pay. But as you would imagine that the number of COVID exposures really has decreased over the several months, labor costs have also moderated. So that's another good tailwind, if you will, on related costs. And then the last 25% is cleaning and other. So cleaning supplies, some of the health care costs, some of the testing, and that's between $20 million and $25 million as well.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. And when you've -- I know you've also talked about COVID revenue impact and size that as well. What does that -- is that sort of people that you think would have otherwise moved in that didn't? Is that what you're capturing there? Or what are you capturing in that number?
Steven Swain
executiveGenerally, it's a variance to occupancy level. So triangulating versus last year year-over-year as well as sequentially kind of pre-COVID and then the COVID period as well as looking at what the budget was. Those were the 3 initially approved methods from HHS.
Albert Rice
analystAnd when you think about the impact of the dip in occupancy and now it's coming back and also just the reluctance to have people into the facility that don't need to be in there -- the facilities, has that had spillover impact on your healthcare services division in any meaningful way?
Lucinda Baier
executiveYes, it has. As you might imagine, a large part of our health care services census is within the walls of our community. And then because the residents tend to have multiple product conditions and have a need for home health and hospice services. And so as occupancy within our communities has declined, that has had an impact on our health care services business. At the same time, we've been very successful in growing our outside-the-wall census in home health and hospice. And we believe that the conversion to health care at home is a tailwind that really benefits home health and hospice that we will benefit from.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. And so that's a focus of yours. Do you have that sort of an emerging business or do you have a significant portion of your home health business at home at this point?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe are -- well, in our business, every part of home health or hospice is conducted either in our communities, which are whether residents call home or in the home of the patient. So 100% the way that we look at it is there.
Albert Rice
analystRight, right. Okay. I'd be remiss, there's been considerable focus on the balance sheet as well and trying to make adjustments to improve liquidity, insulate the company from the volatility caused by the pandemic. Do you want to just walk through at a high level, some of the things you've done this year and what they mean going forward?
Steven Swain
executiveSure. I'll start. The liquidity profile of the company, I just want to say that we view the balance sheet profile that we have in a positive light. We have taken decisive actions. The first quarter, we strengthened our balance sheet by refinancing essentially all of the 2020 maturities. And then in the third quarter, we completed 2 additional financing transactions. And as a result, we have no significant maturities until 2022. And if I'll -- if Cindy wants to comment on the REIT lease restructurings, I will hand it over.
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, actually, I thought you were going to go to the Ventas restructuring because it's been such a fabulous transaction. But one of the things with Ventas is we have reduced our rent payments by over $0.5 billion for the remaining term of the lease. We did need to make a cash payment in the third quarter, but that cash payment has less than a 1-year return. So that's really exciting for us. And then with LTC, we were able to incorporate flexibility into that lease. So that if COVID goes the way that we expect, we'll renew the lease. If, for whatever reason, COVID is more challenging, then we can either not renew the lease and reduce our footprint.
Albert Rice
analystAnd is that -- what is the trigger to decide whether the threshold has been hit on renewing the lease or not?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, we have until April to...
Albert Rice
analystSo is it your discretion?
Lucinda Baier
executiveIt's an option, and it's in April of 2020 and if we renew the option, then we'll renew from 4 years through 2025. And if we choose not to renew, then the lease would end at the end of 2021.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. Okay. And what would be the requirement to -- just for my level setting, if you don't renew the lease, you're going to have to buy -- you would lose those facilities as they would go with them or you buy them out of the lease or what would happen?
Lucinda Baier
executiveYes. I -- no, look, I think that we will likely renew the lease because the lease is a strong covering lease and we're operating it very well. The point that I was trying to make is that we have built optionality to our portfolio. Because remember, we did that negotiation in the beginning of the third quarter really, where it wasn't clear how COVID would unfold. And so what was important to us is taking actions to really both be strong financially and operationally, and that's just another example of that.
Albert Rice
analystRight, right. In a normal environment, we'd be talking about what do the new builds look like and how are that going to unfold and what does that mean for relative occupancy over time and so forth. I'm assuming that a lot of that's been put on hold, but as you look at the market overall, what is happening on that front? And does something like this mean that the next couple of years, the rate environment should be pretty good?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, the good news is that, because of the pandemic, we do think there's going to be a reduction in the number of new starts in our industry. We definitely see lenders tightening their criteria, and that's good. We've also, over the last few quarters in 2020, seen more opens of new communities as opposed to starts. The reason that's important is because that means less competitive threats going forward. And within 20 minutes of Brookdale's communities, the starts are down -- or the opens are down more than 53% from the high, which was in 2017. So I think the competitive environment will be much better after we get over the intense phase of COVID, and I think demand will be strong as well. If you look at the fact that there are nearly 1 million new potential residents a year starting in 2022 and combining that with Brookdale's strong operational and financial response to COVID-19, our focus on good clinical outcomes for our residents, both their emotional well-being as well as their physical well-being, I think that positions us very well for the future.
Albert Rice
analystYes. When you quote that number on new residents, that sounds like it's a demographic. What demographic are you looking at just for curiosity?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo our residents normally move in with us when they are in their 80s. It is fair to say that a significant portion of our residents today, new residents are baby boomers. But we're really looking at residents in their 80s.
Albert Rice
analystRight. And so that you're just seeing a pickup of that group. And I guess as we get to the latter part of the decade, you're going to have a lot of people in that spot. When you have that slowdown in new builds and all, how much is that helping you for the next year? Or -- I sort of remember sort of a couple of years out potentially even it could have an impact.
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo the way the new construction works is it generally takes 18 to 24 months for a new building to be completed once from a start to an open. And then once a community is open, it has an effect on surrounding communities for about a year. So we're feeling great about the construction pipeline coming down. We're also feeling really good about the number of opens around our communities coming down.
Albert Rice
analystRight. And what are you seeing on the competitive landscape in terms of -- are we seeing capacity come out of the market? Or is there closures of any sort or not really at this point?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe have seen a small number of closures at this point. I think it's relatively early to see that. But it would not surprise me if there's more pressure on smaller operators in particular.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. All right. And in terms of your looking at further building and what -- I'm sure a lot got put on hold this year, but as you've repositioned a little bit the balance sheet, what is -- what sort of the development pipeline look like from your perspective over the next few years? And are you waiting to see the pandemic play out or will you move ahead?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWell, when I look at the market conditions, Brookdale has always been a very strong acquirer of communities. And that is something that with occupancy-challenged communities, I think, is an opportunity for us at some point in the future. Now we have done a lot of redevelopment of our existing communities, but in the last few years have not done a lot of new construction on our own. And so I would think of the opportunity being more acquiring of communities that are already built.
Albert Rice
analystAnd do you have a time frame? Has the pandemic got to be over before you're willing to look at that? Or is there any other dating factor?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSteve is probably going to jump in on this one.
Steven Swain
executiveI do look at all kinds of scenarios. And there's it -- suffice it to say that it probably isn't in the near future. But as soon as we see kind of the occupancy flatten out and potentially grow again, then certainly, we'll be looking at any kind of distressed assets.
Lucinda Baier
executiveAnd the only thing seeing that turn in the occupancy is going to be important for us. While we are definitely a strong operator, we'll have a lot more confidence as we're building census.
Albert Rice
analystRight. No, it makes sense. As if the pandemic wasn't enough to deal with this year, I know you guys have highlighted some impact from hurricanes and wildfires. We certainly spend a minute to talk about that because that's unusual. And hopefully, it's unusual, but you experienced it. And do you want to walk through what happened with that?
Lucinda Baier
executiveYes. There is no question that 2022 -- or 2020 has been a year that has given us a lot of challenges. And we really have done an outstanding job of protecting our residents, not just from COVID-19, but also from hurricanes and wildfires, including evacuating residents and their pets, where necessary. As we do have communities in states that were impacted by hurricanes and wildfires, we did have some hurricane damage, but largely, it's covered by insurance. And Steve, if there's any specifics you want to give, go ahead.
Steven Swain
executiveNo, that's basically it. We've had several communities that were damaged. And then some smaller damage in across the affected areas. But as Cindy mentioned, property insurance should cover the majority of the cost. And it's kind of a minimal amount of incremental dollars on a year-over-year basis, third quarter to third quarter.
Albert Rice
analystSo as -- when you have something like that, do you have -- the facility is insured, but do you have business interruption insurance to the extent it impacts the business in any way as well?
Lucinda Baier
executiveWe do have business interruption insurance. Now the interesting thing is, often when we evacuate, we evacuate to a sister community, and so we're still taking care of the residents. In some cases, a resident may choose to go home with family. In that case, there may be a rent credit, and that's covered by business interruption insurance. But this is one of the businesses where it may surprise you to know that we are responsible for taking care of people. Sometimes it's at our communities, sometimes it's in a sister community. And sometimes we even have to take residents, their pets and staff to a hotel, which we did for several weeks this year as a result of the wildfire.
Albert Rice
analystInteresting. Wow, that's crazy. We're hearing in some other -- among some of the other more direct providers, for sure, that there's a level of burnout among staff, given what we've been through in the last 6 to 9 months. I'm getting mixed reports about whether there's been really any uptick in turnover. But certainly, there's -- in some cases, people would need to use temp staff to fill in and so forth. What have you seen with your labor? And how has that worked out? And what -- any dynamics around labor cost worth mentioning?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo there is no question that COVID-19 has been very challenging for our associates. They've really been working 24/7 around the clock, trying to protect our residents and their patients as well as our other associates. What we're really proud of is, if you look at our health and wellness directors and our executive directors, those are 2 of the top 3 positions in a community, we've been able to keep a 70% retention rate, above 70% for 11 of the last 12 quarters, and that includes during COVID-19. So that's been something that has really been a highlight for us. And I think it really comes back to the fact that we are a mission-driven culture. And so our associates tend to focus on the purpose. They're caring, they're passionate and really have a true love for our residents. And again, we try to make sure that we get them to take time off. We offer them career progression. We put their safety first, which is why we really started focusing on PPE in the beginning, but that's been important. Steve, do you want to talk a little bit about labor costs and what we've seen?
Steven Swain
executiveSure. So labor costs, the hiring so far has actually been a little bit more difficult than you would have thought, given the unemployment rate of the country. And that's probably due to a combination of state unemployment as well as the partial year of federal unemployment supplements. They didn't really create a large incentive for people to go back to work. So that has been a little bit more difficult than we would have imagined. And then, of course, the clinical labor, the nursing staff has continued to be a very tight labor market.
Albert Rice
analystHow do you break down, if you were to look at your labor cost, I'm not sure I ever [indiscernible] this. The senior people that Cindy mentioned, the nurses and then the hourly workers, when you look at your bucket of labor costs, how do those 3 typically break out?
Lucinda Baier
executiveAs you would expect, the vast majority of our labor costs are the frontline workers. If you think about the fact that we've got 46,000 associates taking care of our residents. Clearly, the hourly workforce is the vast majority of our labor pool.
Albert Rice
analystOkay.
Steven Swain
executiveAnd the -- that's exactly right. The community labor is all in the community OpEx. Kind of above the community, that ends up in G&A. So if you look at just the community OpEx, that is primarily the workforce out in the field.
Albert Rice
analystAnd what would be the average wage roughly of the hourly workforce? Is there a standard?
Lucinda Baier
executiveIt varies by position as well as by state or local jurisdictions. There's a pretty wide range.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. All right.
Steven Swain
executiveWe've spent the last few years really investing in the wage rate of our associates boosting them up to market.
Albert Rice
analystI was going to say, if we get a push toward higher minimum wage, $15 an hour or anything like that, does that affect your guys or your -- most of your people are already above that?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSo the vast majority of our people are above minimum wage, but when you have an increase in the minimum wage, what you see is wage compression. And certainly, the jobs that we have are challenging jobs. And so while the minimum wage itself would not have a particularly significant impact, we would really have to think carefully about wage compression and what that meant for our associates.
Albert Rice
analystOkay. Interesting. I'd be remiss as an analyst if I didn't try to at least talk about 2021. And what do you guys think about that? I know there's some -- it sounds like there's a lot of moving parts for everybody, and you're no different. But when you think about budgeting out for next year, what are the big puts and takes that you would highlight maybe as we wind down?
Lucinda Baier
executiveSteve, do you want to take that?
Steven Swain
executiveSure. The big puts and takes are -- it really boils down to one and that's occupancy. So your move-in assumptions is really the key driver and when the vaccine is going to be distributed, and we had great news from that standpoint yesterday. And really, the other assumptions are really just your move-out assumptions are basically seasonal. As Cindy mentioned earlier in the call that they've gone back to kind of normal seasonal patterns on a year-to-date basis. The other costs we talked about labor being the largest one. So again, it's boils...
Albert Rice
analystRates' pretty set. You got good visibility on rates, you feel like. You've got -- yes.
Lucinda Baier
executiveObviously, we'd continue to focus on protecting the rate. We certainly know that over time, discounting is counterproductive and protecting the rate drives higher NOI to the bottom line.
Albert Rice
analystRight.
Steven Swain
executiveYes. RevPAR, revenue per available room, is the name of the game. And we're balancing occupancy and rate and that's something that we monitor and manage pretty well, which will only help us accelerate our recovery in the long term.
Albert Rice
analystYes. Interesting. Interesting. Yes, it's interesting. I guess I had a feeling there's probably more variables. And I guess, on the balance sheet, you're pretty much done what you need to do for the near and immediate term. So in terms of looking at additional things that would materially impact '21, it sounds like.
Steven Swain
executiveWe've cleared the deck on maturities for 2021. Later on, in '21, we'll be looking at 2022 maturities, of course, but that's...
Albert Rice
analystRight. Right, but in terms of something that might impact the lease -- amount of lease payments you're making, the rent -- the interest expense, that -- everything that's going to impact '21 has pretty much been done at this point.
Lucinda Baier
executiveJust don't forget to take a full year benefit of that Ventas lease restructuring. That's a big deal for us. And then, of course, the low interest rate that we have is something that will carry into 2021 as well.
Albert Rice
analystYes. No, that's interesting. All right. Well, we're coming to the end here. I really appreciate you guys getting on with us and taking the time, as always, participating and -- so thank you for that. And for those who are dialed in, thank you for participating. And we will speak to everyone soon.
Lucinda Baier
executiveThank you so much for having us, and thanks for the time to listen.
Steven Swain
executiveThanks.
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