Brunello Cucinelli S.p.A. (BC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome the presentation of the results for the first half of 2023 of Casa di Moda Brunello Cucinelli. The speakers tonight are going to be Mr. Brunello Cucinelli, Executive Chairman and Creative Director; Riccardo Stefanelli, CEO; Luca Lisandroni, CEO, Dario Pipitone, and CFO; Moreno Ciarapica, co-CFO senior; and Pietro Arnaboldi, Investor Relations and Corporate Planning Director. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to give the floor to Mr. Brunello Cucinelli, please.

Good afternoon, good afternoon, and welcome back from your holidays. As usual, there are analysts, investors and a few reporters are connecting. This evening, Ana Maria is going to translate the conference and I will serve as a guarantor that people don't speed up too much. So I'm not a very good speaker of foreign languages, says Mr. Brunello Cucinelli, and I understand how difficult it can be to translate. Now you know that we do like this conference calls a lot. We are going to have six updates this year too because they are a great opportunity to connect to the international community. If you are brave enough to listen, especially when the things you listen to are not the ones who like most. Everybody is here, Luca, Riccardo, Dario, the new CFO. He's a bit emotional because he's going to present tonight. Then the co-CFO, Senior, Mr. Moreno Ciarapica is next to him, Pietro and myself. So how are we going to go through this call? Well, as usual, I'll read the big data, then Dario will give you more details, then I'll talk about a few items myself. In particular, we'll talk about the first half. You're familiar with it already, and we'll give you a detailed outlook on the end of the rest of 2023. Then we will give you a lot of visibility on 2024 which is, of course, pretty visible for us because we have nearly completed the sales for spring/summer. And we would also like to give you some color on 2025 because actually, 2023, '24, '25 are the first 3 years in our 11th 5-year plan for the business. Then finally, we will discuss our vision of the global market, and an analysis on style and the main topic of exclusivity. Now let me give you some highlights. Revenues stand at to EUR 543.9 million with an excellent growth of 31% at current exchange rates and 30.5% at constant exchange rates compared to the first half of '22. EBIT stands at EUR 87.7 million up 51.8% versus EUR 57.8 million as of June 30, 2022. with margins up 16.1% versus 13.9% last year. Net profit stands at EUR 66.7 million, up 31.9% compared to EUR 50.6 million last year. And margin is 12.3%, in line with 12.2% of June 2022. We have a robust capital structure with important investments equal to EUR 34.9 million versus EUR 36 million last year. The net financial indebtedness is the EUR 38.6 million as of June 30, 2023, versus EUR 63.8 million last year. So excellent results in the first half -- So the excellent results in the first half and the very good performance of sales make us believe that 2023 is going to post growth in sales around 19%. So the first half of 2023 is closed with excellent results in terms of both sales and profit. Globally, we believe there is a strong demand for high-quality men's and women's ready-to-wear with artisan quality and a lot of care is now been given to exclusivity and the rarity of these products. All this creates a great satisfaction for us in terms of brand positioning, which stands in the upper scale of the luxury pyramid. Now 8 months of this very interesting year have now gone by. And considering the excellent beginning of sales in our boutiques of the new fall/winter collections, we should imagine that the year is going to close in a very pleasant way. Sales are going to increase by around 19% and profit will be, I should say, highly appreciated. The men and women's orders for spring/summer 2024 is nearly completed with excellent results. and a lot of appreciation towards our taste and sobriety as the true identifier of that quiet luxury, which is highly appreciated at this historic moment by mankind. Because of this, we're really confident we can reach our idea of growth, which stands around 10% for the next year. That's all, please, Dario.

Good afternoon, everyone. I suggest we start with the main economic and financial performance data for the first half of 2023. The overall result of revenues confirmed the preliminary data of July 13 and the growth of sales at current exchange rates is 31%, which is 30.5% at constant exchange rates. So I suggest we look at the P&L immediately, and we start Page 15 in the analyst presentation, where we see that the cost structure is well balanced, and we have totally reabsorbed the transitory effects of the pandemic, which was a typical characteristic of the earlier periods. First Margin, as of June 30, 2023, is increasing by 30.6%, in line with the growth in turnover with an impact of 61.5% (sic) [71.5%] which is virtually unchanged versus the data as of 30th of June and 31st of December 2022. With reference to last year, we should also remember that both in June and at the end of December 2022, the exchange rate fluctuations had a positive impact on our revenues and hence on First Margin. And also this had an impact on the increase of general costs, which were obtained outside Italy and in the different foreign currencies. Vice versa, as of June 30 this year, the exchange rate fluctuations do naturally have any significant impact in gross margin or operating costs or revenues. So if we look at the operating cost analysis, we may actually notice that they are growing pretty much in line with the growth of sales, and they reflect the expansion of commercial activities and the development of new initiatives. Well, as the select extension of our sales network and the substantial investments we made in communication. Speaking of communication investment, and going on to Slide 16 in your presentation. We may notice that as of June 30, 2023, communication investment was EUR 36.3 million versus EUR 20.4 million in the first half of 2022. And the percentage of the revenues increased from 4.9% to 6.7%. Communication investment is mainly due to brand events, which were made in the first half year of this financial year, including celebration of several awards we received, including the prestigious Neiman Marcus Fashion Awards. The cost of human resources in the first half stands at EUR 93.3 million with an impact of 17.2% versus EUR 68.4 million (sic) [EUR 78.4 million] i.e., 18.9% of the first half of last year. As of June 30, 2023, the amount of human resources was 2,531 FTEs in line with the development plans and the business growth. That's supporting the new commercial initiatives and our artisan structure and organization. In June 30, 2022, we had 2,254 FTEs. The cost of rent net of IFRS 16 is EUR 63.4 million (sic) [EUR 73.4 million] versus EUR 61.3 million with an impact, which increases from 14.8% of the first half of 2022 to 13.5% of this first half. Sorry, it doesn't increases, it decreases. So after briefly commented on the main cost items, should we go back for a second to Slide 15. So you may notice that in view of the performance we just described, net of IFRS 16, EBITDA stands at 19.3% of our sales, as compared to what we had in the half of last year, where it was 18.1%. Depreciation and amortization stands at EUR 77.1 million (sic) [EUR 67.1 million] versus EUR 72.2 million (sic) [EUR 67.2 million] in the first half of last year. EBIT as of June 30, 2023, is EUR 87.7 million, up 51.8% versus June 30, 2022, with margins of 16.1% as against 13.9% in the first half of last year. As of June 30, 2023, so in view of this growth of EBIT and considering financial management that has charges for an overall value of EUR 2.4 million versus a profit of EUR 11.9 million of last year's first half to taxation of 21.8% in the first half versus 27.4% in the first half of 2022. So net profit is EUR 66.7 million, which is an increase of 31.9%. Let's go back to financial management for a second. It's important to note is that if we compare to June 30, 2022, and December 31, 2022. The performance of this item in our reporting is significantly affected by exchange rate fluctuations, which we tried to present in Slide 24 in the annexes. And in particular, this is due to the unrealized gains and losses on exchange rates. Speaking of financial management again and talking about Slide 24, so charges and profits from our stakeholdings. The 2023 value is EUR 17.6 million, and it referring mainly to Cariaggi Lanificio, both for the results in this half year. And thanks to the positive effect of the transaction by which we sold part of our minority stake in the company to Chanel. And then should we look at tax rates as of June 30, 2023. It now stands at 21.8%. And this includes and factors in the benefit of the implementation of the participation exemption regime to the economic impact of the same item, which is charges and profits from stakeholdings. So this benefit is going to become diluted proportionally as the year continues, and as time goes by. So it's going to become normalized. And the normalized effect in the first half would be 27.3%. As of June 30, 2022, let me remind you the tax rate was 27.4%. Let's now move on to Slide 17 and later slides. And I'd like to share with you some quick comments on the net working capital investments and Finally, net financial position. As of June 30, 2023, the net working capital, the Trade Working Capital was EUR 196.4 million, increasing by EUR 14 million versus EUR 182.4 million as of December 31, 2022. In detail, we can actually tell you that trade receivables stand at EUR 75.2 million versus EUR 76.6 million of December 31 2022, which shows a very healthy situation, even though the revenues have increased quite substantially. Same is true for trade payables that stands at EUR 141.5 million versus EUR 137 million of December 31, 2022. Here, we made no change in payment timings for the providers and suppliers and consultants. And finally, inventories have an impact on the rolling turnover of the last 12 months of 25.1% versus 26.4% of December 31, 2022. To conclude, thanks to the excellent economic results of this last 12 months, even though we are embarking on important investment plan, EUR 35.9 million (sic) [EUR 34.9 million] as of June 30, 2023, as shown in Slide 18. And also considering that dividends were paid for EUR 48.1 million. So despite all that, our net indebtedness is EUR 38.6 million as of June 30 versus EUR 63.8 million of June 30, 2022. So thank you all very much for your time. Let me now hand the floor back to Brunello.

Well, you said you were emotional, but I think you actually did very well even though the co-pilot actually corrected you when you said quarter instead of half year. So thanks for correcting us. So you're 45, Luca is 45, Carlo is 41, Moreno is slightly over 60, and I'm going to turn 70 in just a few days. So hopefully, I believe that we are structurally, let's say, well organized in terms of age brackets. So my only comment on this half year is splendid it. Plus, I would say that July and August are keeping along the same lines and same trends. So let's now discuss the second half. In general, forecast data may be discussed already. We may be a bit more careful about that, and then we may want to discuss wider issues. So needless to say, we'll need numbers first and then strategies will follow, at least this is how I work. Pythagoras teaching was numbers are the law of the universe. So we see year-end, which is very, very interesting for us with surprising numbers as compared to the budget we started the year with. Sales are growing quite a lot, around 19%. The initial forecast was plus 12%. EBIT is very robust. It's around 16% and the forecast was 15%. The net profit is really, really good, and it's stands around 11% or 10% to 11%. So something which is really important is that from 2020 onwards, after the beginning of the pandemic, we virtually doubled our sales. In 2020 we posted minus 10%, in 2021, plus 13%, 2022, plus 30% and 2023, plus 19%. The inventory, as Dario said, is excellent. It's around 25%. Investments are around 8%. Advertising and events are growing too. The investment is around 7%. So this is indeed growing, but we believe all these events are fundamental to communicate our brand to more peculiar and more exclusive customers. So I'd be frank with you here. It makes me laugh a bit, but I actually had 113 dinners in a row. And I only stopped one night on the 109th night. So how difficult is it to diet in these conditions? This event as an average, have 50, 60, 70 people. And they have very, very interesting ties, because you can actually talk to people, talk to everyone. It is also true that you need to take at least 150 to 200 pictures each evening. And so you tend to try to be careful, but you don't necessarily look at your best everywhere. So you may look like fatter, whatever. But I kind of dislike these selfies in particular, I hate selfies, hot jokingly I'm saying this. I did 113 dinners in a row. It's been quite interesting. And let me tell you, a dear friend told to me. I need to lose some weight. And so I bought kind of, home gym, because I want to lose weight by using the home gym and half-jokingly, I said, well, maybe you better get rid of your kitchen instead of putting in a home gym, but now seriously now, let's go back to more serious items. So you know that the net financial position is around breakeven. But as you know, this is no big deal for us. I mean it's not really a problem. So we are actually thinking of paying out dividends, which should be, as usual, about 50% of the profit. During this last year, we opened 3 lovely boutiques, Dubai, Emirates, Hong Kong in Queen's road and the new store in Rome. Then we extended another two stores and particularly beautiful in Zurich on the Bahnhofstrasse and in Cannes, where the store is absolutely beautiful. And you may remember that our idea is that of opening two, three boutiques per year and 2 or 3 store extensions each year to try and stay exclusive. So the increase of sales does not match the actual increase of the stores we opened last year. You know pretty much everything about eyewear and fragrances. Things are doing very, very well, and we actually love this beautiful relationships we have with the team of EssilorLuxottica and for eyewear and EuroItalia for fragrances. So why do I like this connection because we meet people. We talk about design, style, positioning and exclusivity. So this is the very idea that we're trying to convey to all of you. And this is what we mean by contemporary licensing. So it may be licensing but it's a very beautiful and contemporary way of doing licensing, there 10 to 12 years contracts. And hopefully, they're going to continue for much longer. So I would like to wrap up on numbers by telling you that we believe our P&L is very robust and very sound and solid. Please remember that the quarterly sales are virtually pretty much always the same. With the only exception of the last quarter, which tends to be a bit higher because there's more cashmere, there's more overcoats and outerwear tends to have a pretty high -- slightly higher price point. Now 2024, this is really interesting. We nearly finished to collect orders for men's and women's for Spring/Summer 2024. The result of this order is in campaigns is, we believe, excellent. And in particular, we are very pleased with how design is performing. Next year, we're going to open 3 stores as we normally do and beautiful one in Toronto, Canada and lovely one in Miami, Florida and one in Macao. Then we are planning two very beautiful extensions for our stores in Vienna and Venice. And as I told you, this is already planned and agreed. So our idea for 2024 is that our growth is going to stand around 10%. And we still need to insist and focus on style, elegance, rarity and exclusivity. Because this is a key issue for us and we need to insist on it all the time. So we're very, very confident about the results we're going to have in 2024. Then 2025, well, this -- we always look far ahead in our perspective, we believe it's still very interesting, still focus on style, elegance, refinement, exclusivity and rarity. And the estimated budgeted growth is around 10%, too. Now in just a few seconds, let me give you a brief summary of the key issues, the key themes we work and you're all familiar with it. You know how much we value factory work and factory workers. Higher salaries, better working locations, artisan schools, all of this generates creativity and breeds creativity. You're also familiar with value we attach to industrial and artisan projects. Our outside artists and collaborators and Riccardo is going to talk about them, too, will give us a lot of certainties for at least the next 10 years because the average age of our suppliers in the artisan world is around the mid-40s. The land we own in Solomeo, the private land and the company land, let us think that the company has room for growing for the next century. So the land is not going to be a constraint to our growth in the future. You know everything about the value of Solomeo, the big value of Solomeo as a brand building tool too. Another very interesting topic is pricing. So you know that normally, Europe is -- stands at 100, U.S. at 121, Asia at 128. And we should imagine that for next year, we are going to achieve a total rebalancing, which actually happened already in raw materials too. So for 2024, we think that pricing is going to be well balanced too. Another important thing for us is multi-brand stores. This is fundamental for our taste. You know what we think about is Harrods, Saks, Neiman Marcus, we consider them as multi-brand because we organized the dinner last February, which was dedicated to them. And there, we had maybe 400 or 500 pictures taken. And we are now actually harvesting the fruits of those projects that we've worked with them for the next 5 or 10 years. I always believe this. And we all seem to consider that if you walk into Harrods, where you have 15 million people every year. Then some of them may walk by the Cucinelli store, but it's not the same thing of the Cucinelli flagship store out in the street. So we can actually consider that our sales today come 40% from multi-brands and 60% for mono-brands. So this is a good balance for us. There's another very important theme for us, which is the value of exclusivity and rarity. First, this is the actual life of our company. And it's actually, the century old story and heritage of our company should go through exclusivity and rarity. And it's not necessarily easy, but we do firmly believe in this in exclusivity and rarity. So Riccardo, would you please tell us a couple of words on production, then Luca will discuss the markets and market performance. So Riccardo, would you start?

Let me give you some updates. We are now preparing our usual meeting with the 400 artists and suppliers we work with, we're going to meet them here in Solomeo. As you know, we organized these meetings twice a year. The second meeting is going to happen around Christmas time. And these 400 companies are, of course, representing anywhere between 7,500 and 8,000 employees. And as you know, we've always supported a very direct connection to these people. So we consider the small artisan companies as kind of a detached production unit for the company. And we actually never used any kind of production platform to serve as an intermediary in this connection. Now the meeting we have arranged here in Solomeo in mid-September is going to be extremely important for us because in practice, we are going to provide these suppliers with updates on the company results, which is their results as well. And we're going to update them on what we feel and hear from the market. Also, this is an occasion for thinking about design and new projects because our comments will actually be converted into their working plans and investments for the future. And we share with them all the things we want to discuss with our suppliers including the all-important issue of the better work places. As you know from Brunello, this is fundamental today to persuade young people to learn our trade and to start working in our business. So it's an opportunity to talk about operations. It serves us to understand how the climate is and it serves to them to understand what we expect from them going forward. After this, we'll meet again around Christmas time. So we'll get together to celebrate the end of the year, but also to discuss very important topics such as connection to younger people, the connection between young people and work, the behavioral rules to be complied with our coworkers and employees and [indiscernible]. So these are very important, very interesting meetings and then for the rest, everything goes on smoothly, as you heard from our Chairman, the Penne factory is continuing as expected. It's been built as expected. Production is doing very, very well in terms of both quality and delivery schedules, and there is no challenge to be pointed out in terms of raw materials. Luca, would you please give us an overview of the market.

Certainly. So in July, we gave very enthusiastic comments about the preliminary results for the first half. And at the time, we said we had excellent geographic distribution. All regions were very positive, very good balancing between sales channels. And the results were certainly helped by the main prevailing taste and the great positioning of our brand. The month of July and August have actually been marked by continuity. Let's start with the U.S. Performance there is great in both sales channels. In retail, sales in July and August have been very, very good, and they continue the same trend at the beginning of the year. And this makes us think we're going to have a very beautiful result for the end of the year. Our confidence for the second half of 2023 and for the whole of 2024 is also due to the completion of a beautiful wholesale campaign for spring/summer 2024. In practice, in the U.S., we have completed all the collection already. And orders have grown quite a lot from all main department stores for both men's and women's. So this very good trend in purchases from department stores was also supported by the excellent sales campaign for Spring/Summer 2023. And the early winter season sales are very, very promising. This shows that today in the U.S., there's a lot of demand for top quality, top level upscale, ready-to-wear with special garments with a lot of artisan content. And very special pieces are really interested in that market. We had a Board meeting this morning, we discussed thoroughly about the situation in different markets. We heard from our U.S. director, Ramin Arani, he's an expert in economy and finance. He's been working at Fidelity for over 30 years, but also he's a top customer for luxury businesses and a fine observer, a keen observer of our business. And he's had a few very simple, very clear things that really struck me and provided us with great food for thought. So Ramin Arani said that in economic terms, salaries in the U.S. are now growing quicker than inflation. This has actually provided new additional resources and people have a higher propensity to shopping and buying. In particular, if we look at the people who have a pretty high available capital, the economic situation of this part of the population is definitely better today than it was last year. Thanks to the stock exchange performance, which is definitely better. And thanks to the bank deposit yield, which is certainly much more interesting than before. Then Mr. Ramin Arani also pointed out, there is a -- nearly in the correlation between the width of the range of customers of individual brands and the quality of results. So the more diversified your customer base, the less interesting your performance seems to be today. Let's now move from the U.S. to Europe. And I would like to say that, first of all, we had an excellent season in all resort locations. The presence of American tourists back in Europe has been a very positive factor for us. But in analyzing this half year, we would like to think mainly of the robustness and consistency of the European domestic demand that has reached really, really important levels today. Asia results are very good, excellent throughout the continent, starting from China. As you know, for us, China is nearly 50% of the Asian business. At the end of June, it was 28% of total business. So we're really, really happy for the results we've seen at the beginning of the year and in the recent weeks. We feel the market has acknowledged the brand's exclusivity. It's rewarding our positioning and appreciating more and more our offer of no-logo ready-to-wear. China is constantly and progressively come in ripen the potential we've been observing for a long time, too. But at the same time, we feel it still has a lot of untapped potential for the future. So you may remember that our business is focused on top-tier cities so far. We were reading on Forbes a few days ago that the top 10 cities for a number of billionaires are all in China. And China today has over 260 cities with more than 1 million inhabitants. There are 18 such cities in Europe and 10 in the U.S. So this number shows the reason why we are very confident that over time, we will see a lot of beautiful important multibrand stores being constructed in these cities which is what was going on in the prepandemic era, when very quickly, we moved from 20 accounts to 40 we are serving today. One final interesting evidence on China is the growing importance of silver hair clients. So clients over 40 years of age. In the classic Chinese idea, these clients were juxtaposed to the Moonlight Plan. So the very young people who were used to spending their whole salary before the end of the month in luxury goods and technology products. So Moonlight Plan before pandemic was indicated to be the key driving factor in the economy, whereas silver hair customers are considered to be more and more important today. They have a higher propensity to shop in, and they tend to be much more loyal and to have a buying and shopping behavior, which is much more constant over time. Now speaking of Asia, again, let me say a couple of comments about Japan. We seem to consider it as a separate and different market. In Japan, multibrand stores are fundamental. As Brunello said, we have a century old department stores there. In Hong Kong business is virtually old monobrand whereas in Japan, the main domestic market is multibrand. And so in both very different markets, we are actually posting the best performance ever in our history. One final comment on the digital channel. In 2023, the key player is physical retail. But at the same time, we like to notice that the digital component of our sales, both in the direct sales and in the wholesale e-tailers component is positive and growing. And if we look at our direct business, we may actually notice there's a pretty sharp increase in the amount of interactions, be it via chat boxes, WhatsApp, phone or whatever. This shows that even the original clients seem to be willing to seek guidance and to establish some kind of human relationship. So that means that even though digital communication is increasing and very important, we still have a lot of physical interactions that drive digital sales, too. Then to close, so far we had a lot of positive reviews and favorable reviews for the kind of products we provide. And we believe that the end of this year, 2024 and 2025 are still going to be marked by the search for elegance, authenticity and quality.

Thank you, Luca. Luca, it was a bit quick, but okay, manageable, no problem. Now let's talk about products for the next 4 minutes and then we'll open the floor to your questions. So once again, we are mainly ready-to-wear and lifestyle company, and that accounts for 85% of our sales. Ready-to-wear is 85% of our sales, and it's equally distributed between men's and women's. I think we do have a good design identity, a good style identity. And I think we need ready-to-wear to affirm our style. So you can only have a special style, a very recognizable style through ready to wear. There is a lot of demand for exclusively hard to find luxury ready-to-wear. And this is something we discuss all the time at the company. I've always been very concerned about being overexposed. Whenever you become overexposed, you won't last for longer. This is normal. So last night, I was with my wife and we were watching [indiscernible]. She said, well, that guy is very good. But I mean, he's all over the place. You can see him anywhere. So that makes us think. So personally, I've never wanted to have products with an overexposed image. This has not been exclusive. This is not what we mean by exclusivity. So I believe that our purpose is that maybe tomorrow, we should be a bit less known than yesterday. Because in the end, luxury is exclusivity, uniqueness and rarity. Then, of course, we need products to have top quality. This goes without saying. Another very important comment is that we have now entered the season where great elegance is the name of the game. This is the style which we now call quite exclusive luxury where people are prepared to buy very expensive and highly valuable garments. For men's, in particular, you may remember the beautiful movie, which was set in 1923, The Great Gatsby. This is the kind of men we're looking at. An elegant man, so something we are very happy to see, of course. So in the end, the product must be extremely well done with a lot of manual work, but it must be young, more than chicken contemporary, but still exclusive. It should be product that you never throw away, you can actually fix it. I mean, for a jacket or an overcoat, you can actually have it remodeled and go one size up and one size down without any problem. And when you go to the boutique, it must be presented by the sales associates in a chic-refined way. This is particularly true and particularly important for men. Men need to be supported. They need advice. They want the sales associates to communicate safety and beauty and to suggest how they can combine what they're looking at and they're shopping for with the projects they already own. So the strong idea is the repair, reuse, review, recondition, mix and match. And this is something which is particularly strong, especially for younger customers. I always look at King Charles as an example. I mean he always or nearly always wears the same clothes, but he always looks so elegant and well groomed. So that's all. Couple of minutes on organization for the next few months. So we would love to have this kind of connection with the financial market. So on the 19th of October, I will not attend the conference call. You will have Luca, Riccardo, Dario and Pietro because I will be in the U.S. for 1 week for several events and to actually give -- thank for the beautiful award we have received. Then I would like to organize some Christmas dinners where we would meet in person with some investors in Milan and London. Then in New York, Luca, Riccardo, Pietro and Massimo will be there for the Christmas dinner, but I will not be there because before Christmas, I will have to be in China to receive a very, very special award, which would never, never imagine we would be receiving. So this Chinese award is something which is totally unexpected for us. It's a gift for our design style and for the brand culture. So I should expect that in 2024, there will be a few more trips to that fascinating part of the world. But it won't be more challenging than the 113 dinners in a row I did last year. So to conclude, I'm sure you understand we work in harmony. We understand that the taste of the moment is represented by our design, our [ style ] very well. And this puts us in a interesting position vis-a-vis our clients. Once again, my personal commitment is totally devoted to the brand and Solomeo without any kind of collateral activity. So you know, my uncle, Orlando, always told me, try and do one thing try and do just one thing and try to do it well. So this is the business organization I have in mind, 90% of my time is dedicated to design, and I love it. Design and style and style and style, I love it. So people say that women's collections are very challenging. But I think that men's are even more difficult and more challenging because the men's fashion is in a tiny little of details. And it's really important to comply and to respect to your style. So this is what I think. So even a single sock, which is not much [ in all the rest ] makes a difference in the outfit of men. So thank you very much. We're ready to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions]. The first question is from Andrea Randone of Intermonte.

Brunello, I have quite a few questions. Should I ask them all together?

Yes, please.

So my first question is about the availability of products on the market in your segment. So you said that you're pretty much okay with production, Riccardo said so. So do you feel that the production challenges that are -- the brands are having to come to terms with still an item? Or do you think this is no longer an issue. We are back to a more balanced situation. Then the second question is some color on China. So you said -- actually, Luca said something about China, and he said that the development of multibrand stores there, will increase your distribution in other cities beyond the 6 or 7 main Tier 1 cities. So could you please comment on that? What do you see there, are you talking to partners? Are you discussing with any multi-brand partners there. Where do you see yourself in 2 years' time in China? Then my final question is, could you please comment on the Cariaggi deal for a second. So in terms of numbers, what kind of impact did it have on the financial position -- the net financial position for the period? And generally speaking, do you see any other similar opportunities in the market?

Excellent, Andrea. So I'll take your first question. So for spring/summer, with still lacked some products. For full winter, we are looking at a much more balanced situation. So rebalancing seems to be pretty completed, but full rebalancing is going to happen with spring/summer 2024, which means the deliveries we're going to have in November, December. Luca, would you answer on China?

Thank you, Andrea. Yes, we do believe and we are observing with a lot of care. All of those cities with local teams that are dedicated to this, and we see there's a lot of specialty stores that have been open there. We had [ 40 ] accounts for several seasons. They all have grown volumes and very good business robustness. The visual presentation, visual merchandising is excellent. They're absolutely up to the best European or American standards. Then as far as department stores are concerned, there's actually 1 top quality player in China today, which is Lane Crawford. We've been working with them for quite some time now. And over the last few years, they certainly became one of the biggest promoters of our products. It's always been a great multibrand in Hong Kong. So from Hong Kong, they now extended to Beijing, Shanghai and Chengdu. So the other big Tier 1 cities in China. And we believe there could be a good complement in very large cities where we still have only 1 store. And for the rest, we are confident that specialty stores are -- top quality specialty stores are going to be opened in several Chinese cities. Now as far as Cariaggi is concerned, the impact was EUR 26 million. And for the future, we are not actually looking at similar deals in our strategies. We have nearly 400 companies and 8,000 people, as Riccardo said, with whom we have a direct connection. So as you know, Cariaggi was a deal which we wanted to go through for gratitude soon because they actually needed to replace someone who was leaving the business. So that's our position. So of course, there may be opportunities coming up by our way, but we're not looking for them actively. Objection structure is very robust. We need to find the next -- artisans for the next 20 or 30 years. So this is where we're going to play out our future. Thank you, Andrea.

The next question will be asked by Oriana Cardani of Intesa Sanpaolo.

Congratulations on your results. I have 2 questions. So the first is about China again. Last year, July and August were months where major recovery was posted in China because of the reopening. So the comps are quite challenging. I think that when you speak of July and August performance, China seems to still have a very strong trend in this year, too, at the beginning of the third quarter. So we may not see a major slowdown of the growth in China because where -- you are having such a big growth pretty much everywhere that you will not feel this kind of impact, not as much as others because of the openings and closings that China has been going through. Then I have a second question, which is about the gross margin. So I was wondering, for the second half of the year, do you expect to stay on the same levels you posted in the first half?

Oriana, for the first question on China, Luca will answer.

Yes, Oriana, I can confirm that the trend in China is very, very robust, very relevant. Let me give you 3 elements. So the first is bigger and bigger importance of ready-to-wear. I'll never stop hammering that point home. I mean a lot of Chinese customers are becoming more and more keen on ready-to-wear. And Mr. Cucinelli said...

May I interrupt you for a second? I mean they used to buy accessories to begin with. But now when they land in Milan or Rome room, they want to wear something international. They -- that's why ready-to-wear is becoming so important and so strong. In the past, there were more keen on buying shoes and bags, whereas today, they want to look international when they land in Rome or London or New York.

Yes, exactly. So we believe that the importance of ready-to-wear is the first thing. And this is true, not just in China. I mean, there's not necessarily such a big offer on the top level on the upscale market. A second very important element is that they're becoming more and more interested in differentiating themselves. So now that luxury has become a much bigger business in China. There is a group of customers that seeks to be differentiated from the others. The third and final element for us is a lower level of, let's say, volatility. The idea is customers normally choose a brand and stay loyal to those brands. So they are not buying one-off products or individual items that are very visible because of communication campaigns. So that's why we feel these customers are becoming more and more loyal over time. And so it's likely to be much more -- many more clients that are becoming regular repeat customers over time. Then for the first -- well, the -- for the first half versus the second half, we think that they are going to be doing pretty much in the same way, both very well. Well, thank you very much. I mean we love receiving all these questions. We may want to extend the duration of our analyst calls in the future.

Next question will be asked by Chris Huang of UBS, please.

We appreciate that you upgraded your sales outlook to 19% for this year. But I just wanted to understand, if we think about H2, particularly, do you think like a double-digit growth would be possible? I'm asking this because I kind of recall if I understood well that in the past, you said this year, you're expecting to see a price mix of 8%. So I just wanted to understand for H2, a double-digit growth is something foreseeable? That's my first question. And my second question is on profitability. You saw a very strong year-over-year EBIT margin expansion despite the first margin being flattish compared to last year. And it seems like the company has seen decent operating leverage from payroll costs. So it would be very, very helpful for us to understand if this is something we can also expect going forward for H2 and also 2024. Thank you very much.

Well, Chris, well, hopefully, we're going to do as well as we did this year in the future, too. But let me tell you something. I mean, we always have in mind the new openings program. So we are set to open 2 or 3 stores -- new stores every year and extend 2 or 3. And this year, we started targeting a 12% growth. And for 2024 and 2025, we are set to grow 10%. This is our initial budget. We have reached an EBIT level, which we are very happy with because it's robust, it's solid. So the profits are sound and robust, but also we have a good growth rate. So rightly, you may say, how do you think you can actually stabilize, let's say, that 10% growth. Chris, between '20 and 2020, we grew as an average 0.5%, then forget 2021, where we grew by 30% because that was a big rebound versus minus 10 the year before. So we also had a huge rebound of 30% in 2022. But then again, we thought it would be 20% to 21%, but it was about rebalancing. Now this year, we're actually harvesting the fruit of taste. I mean the taste -- people's taste is towards no logo. It's towards chic. It's about quiet luxury. So of course, for us, this is a advantage, but we're very, very confident about the next few years. But Chris, when you think about you think that we may have a 10% growth in 2024 and 2025. For 2024, we know the first half is going to be very robust already. And this is going to be done with this kind of P&L, this kind of financial results, and we're very happy with this. Also because going forward, people will -- and especially younger people will be very careful to look at what profit businesses are making. They are going to be interested in fair profit. It's not up to us to judge what is there, but customers are going to be very interested in looking at fair profits for companies. So, thank you very much, Chris, for your question. I answered all of your questions this time.

The next question is going to be coming from Paola Carboni of Equita.

I have 3 questions. So first of all, during the earlier speech, you talked about the pricing structure by geography. We're all familiar with it. And I think you also said that last year -- sorry, next year, we may expect price rebalance into. Did I get that right?

Yes, you did. Absolutely. Yes, yes, this is absolutely right.

Okay. Then as to July and August, if I got you right, let me double check this. I think you said the trend is similar to the first half. So should I think growth is still at around 30%? Will this make us think that by the end of the year, you will end up with performance, which is even better than plus 19%. I understand you're very cautious for November, December, but you're very happy and satisfied with your results, too. So here, again, I think there is room for growth. And even if the guidance is 19%, we may expect even better growth. Then finally, as far as marketing is concerned, we know it's about 7% or a bit more. So is this because you had a lot of focused events? Or is it becoming a more structural kind of marketing budget. So are you going to invest something in the region of 7% in markets and in the future, too?

Well, thank you very much, Paola. So as far as prices are concerned, let me answer this. I believe that next year is going to be healthy for pricing. We know that we do have raw materials already prices are fixed I mean we think that we're going to reach a healthy rebalancing of pricing. So today, we have 100 in Europe, 121 in the U.S. and 128 in Asia. So for July, August, things are going very well. But Paola, if we do better, that's very good, of course. But the second half of the year, with the last point would be 60% of deliveries that became urgent because people really wanted products in the stores as quickly as possible. Then you may remember that some years ago, we said that what we needed to invest to be a luxury player is that and it was changing. So we needed stores, fresh showrooms all the time, 4, 5 years ago, we said we would need something in the region of 8% in terms of communication budgets. I think something has changed in terms of events. I mean all these events are actually yielding very important results. You see, Paola, if we take a picture in a beautiful drive and then you get and send in your picture to 100 very wealthy friends of yours. And then some of them will want a personal tailor to help them review the order. So we may have spent a bit more, but it's something that's going to stay in the next few years too. This is a real need we see. I mean people want to do events. We want to do events in our stores. We are willing to do events. And so pain for all this, of course, it's our advertising budget. But I think this is very, very, very important. It's a great way to communicate, especially in the upscale part of the market -- in the top part of the market. This very wealthy people hardly ever go to any kind of crowded event. If you do events with 40, 50, 70 people, you have time to talk to everybody and it feels more exclusive. So, Paola, we see this is very successful and very important. And once again, we're very, very happy with how things are performing.

Excellent. May I ask something about pricing. So do you think price rebalancing is pretty much in place today?

Yes, we think prices should go back to being, let's say, normal. No extraordinary increases are expected, and I think this is really interesting because the issue of pricing has been very important, very relevant. And now we can actually consider it a bit more -- a bit easier. So I mean I was in Sardinia recently, and everybody was talking about prices that are out of the wall. I'm not criticizing Sardinia, but I mean you smoke cigars that used to cost EUR 32 in the last 2 years, they now sell for EUR 94. So I don't know how that happened. So of course, costs increased, but there is something which is out of control there. So I'm pretty confident there in Sardinia, but Riccardo knows what I'm talking about, we wanted to have drinks and we were asked for EUR 1,400 for a sofa and just to sit in a club. And I told them. I'm never going to be there. I'm never going to walk in this club. I mean, just EUR 1,400 to just sit in a sofa is out of this one. I mean, it doesn't make sense. But there is a change coming there. I can tell you that our friends [ Stefano Domenicalli ], #1 in Formula One. Yesterday or today is going to announce that the prices for all of 2024 in Formula One events are going to be fixed. So that means we have to give out a clear signal. We always thought we would set prices with great care, but we also feel confident this is going to be important for the next year, too. So this pricing issue is very important, Paola. It's something we should never forget. It's very strong in all markets and in all clusters of the market, too.

We have another question from Antoine Belge of BNP Paribas, please.

Yes, it's Antoine Belge from BNP Paribas. So I have only two questions, if I may. So the first one would be on the margin. So let's assume that you do better in H2 and you -- the margin shoots to, let's say, 17% for the full year. Would you be willing to reinvest the extra earnings to remain at around 16%, so at the guidance? And if yes, could you tell us what would be the areas of reinvestment, Yes, basically, what's on your wish list to reinvest? My second question would be on top line. Mr. Cucinelli, you said -- many times you expressed your wish not to exceed EUR 1 billion in sales in order to retain exclusivity. So you're probably going to be at EUR 1.2 billion by the end of next year. So my question here is, I mean, how to -- what action could you do to remain exclusive on that part? And do you have a new target, maybe EUR 1.5 billion or at EUR 2 billion cap for Brunello Cucinelli. And would you be willing to reduce and to play on the volume to not exceed much this threshold.

Thank you, Anthony. Let me start and take your last question to begin with. The growth project we have in mind is the famous 10% you also [indiscernible]. So we're still thinking that EUR 1 billion, EUR 1.1 billion, EUR 1.2 billion by 2024 will keep us on a very exclusive footing anyway. Because Anthony, there is 8 billion human beings on the planet. And if you have 1 store, maximum 2 stores in one city, you can still be very, very exclusive. I do believe in this. Then we have examples of brands that are huge, there may be 10 billion or 20 billion brands. And of course, we are not willing go back to be more exclusive even today, we are still very exclusive even that we've grown a lot. As for the second half of the year, the estimate is everything will go on well as it did in the first half. We have investments. We have events Unfortunately, I will have to travel a lot. I'm really flying all over the place, but there's no big variation basically, Anthony, this is our strategy, and it stays such. So as I told you, we are still very important luxury players, and we need to be brave and be exclusive. It can be done. So how can you be exclusive when you're a giant, I don't know exactly, but I still want to talk about exclusivity all the time. I don't want to buy products that are not exclusive. I didn't buy them, not even when I was a kid because in the end, human beings want to have something that nearly almost for him or her exclusively regardless of the price. So there's a key issue here. I mean every single day, we -- I mean, we, individuals, we are all exposed to images, pictures and all sorts of things. And so we, human beings, would like to be a bit less known tomorrow than we are today. So that doesn't mean we want to go back. But it means that we want to communicate with the world with a lot of grace. People need luxury. It's always been a real hard win. [ The emperor ] 2,000 years ago said that senator is a very chic one. He's is just not very rich, but he is very elegant. And that senator is a bit vulgar, he's very rich, but he's vulgar. So this was 2,000 years ago and is still to today. So thank you very much, Anthony.

[Operator Instructions] So far, there are no further questions.

Very good. So then thank you. Thank you all very much. Please feel free to contact us. In October, I will not be attending the conference call, but we'll meet physically in London, [ Milan ] or New York, and I will chip in at 1:00 in the morning with Luca, Riccardo and Pietro physically there. Thank you. Thank you very much. See you soon. Bye-bye.

This is the Chorus Call operator. The conference is now over. You can disconnect your phones. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]