Camping World Holdings, Inc. (CWH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

I'm Alex Perry. I cover the leisure sector here at BofA. I'm very pleased to have Camping World here with us today, including Marcus Lemonis, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; as well as Brett Andress, Senior Vice President of Corporate Development and Investor Relations. So I'm sure most of you are familiar, but Camping World is the world's largest retailer of recreational vehicles and is coming off a very exciting year, which included reaching record market share, both new and used, over 11% of the overall market.

I guess just to start, Marcus, can you just talk about how you're thinking about the current state of the RV market, especially with what's in the press as a lot of macroeconomic headwinds right now?

Yes. I think the way we think about business is that we have an obligation to operate an idiosyncratic model. And while the macro challenges are out there around tariffs and the general consumer, we tend to be very dynamic in how we position our inventory to be responsive to meet the customer where they want to be. And if we look back at 2024, and I appreciate you mentioning [indiscernible] the market share, our results were good on the sales side. They were not good on the bottom line side. They don't meet our standards. As we went into 2025, we knew that we needed to reposition ourselves back with used and particularly on the new side. As I look at the overall consumer, I'm a firm believer that the industry is ripe for real growth. And when people say, "Well, how could that possibly be? The macro is not good." Keep in mind that the average price of RVs that are generally sold are in the $30,000 to $40,000 range. And financing is anywhere between 120 and 240 months. So you're talking about a $250 to $350 payment. So you don't see consumers necessarily moving around. I think the biggest challenge right now, and we're doing everything we can to encourage both the manufacturers and other dealers to follow suit, is to start to put inventory back on the shelf. We believe that we're heavily destocked as an industry. In the last 36 months, we've gone through cleansing and turning and getting rid of aging. So we are very bullish on where the industry is going, at least from our perspective. Most people have questioned, why are you encouraging other dealers and manufacturers to do more? Our business is largely based on the installed base. So between our Good Sam business, our parts business and our service business, we need the overall industry to be healthy. We can't be the only folks continuing to grab share, even though we like to grab share.

Perfect. I guess what green shoots -- in terms of the overall industry, what green shoots are you -- you seem to be more positive in general on sort of the state of the RV market. What green shoots are you seeing or looking for that you think helps drive an overall industry recovery outside of what you're doing from an idiosyncratic standpoint?

Brett and Matt and the rest of our team, we really are the truth tellers in the industry. Two years ago and 3 years ago, we were the first people to say things are going to get really bad for the next 24 months. We sit here today and we look at our web traffic, we look at our foot traffic, we look at the flexibility the banks are providing to consumers. We look at the responsiveness that manufacturers have had in lowering prices, and then more importantly, we look at the first 90 days of this year. Our business, the last 2 Saturdays have been record Saturdays for us regardless of the month. And when we look at our overall unit sales, I think the biggest quarter we ever had in the company's history first quarter was 31,700 units. That was the first quarter of '21, which was like the height of COVID. We believe that we're on pace to break 31,000 units for the quarter. So when I'm looking for a green shoot, I'm looking for people walking in, but more importantly, people buying. I don't know what else to look for other than there's transactions showing up and people are loving what they're doing.

And Alex, I think when you talk about the macro headwinds and the green shoots we're seeing, I think a lot of the same data that you look at, we look at as well. One of the main ones that I think has gotten a lot of attention, some of the OEMs and some of our competitors, is consumer confidence. And when you think about the complexion of consumer confidence and how certain political parties feel versus the other, I think we are starting to see that our core consumer tends to be in those red states, in those red counties, and they tend to feel better about the economy. So for how long that lasts and how strong that is? We'll see. But I think that's probably one differentiator to really keep in mind when we think about parsing out some of those macro trends.

Yes. Over the last 20 years, Alex, the one thing that our team has really learned and you can point to someone like Matt Wagner, who I think is the smartest guy to ever be in the RV business. We've gotten very good at positioning our inventory in more real time and understanding that if the consumer is flexing one way or flexing the other, we have the ability to change our shelf offering pretty rapidly. And I think that's been our secret to success the last couple of years.

Perfect. I actually wanted to go there. So shifting to the new side of the business. I think last year, you grew new units by 20% in an industry that was down 7%, I believe. So you reached record market share, over 20% of the new market. Can you just talk to what led to this significant share gains and relatively difficult backdrop for RVs? And then is that expected to continue in 2025?

So we plan our new inventory usually 4 to 6 months in advance. So when you think about the 2024 calendar year, we were positioning ourselves in the fall of '23. And when we all arrived into Elkhart, there's an event called Open House, where -- in September where you're thinking about what are the products I'm going to carry and what are the brands that I'm going to carry going into the following year. We went in with one distinct focus, which is getting the market to understand that elasticity in RVs is probably more relevant than ever. Through COVID and even after COVID, while inflation was accelerating at about 18% in the general U.S. economy, RVs had accelerated to an inflation on pricing to 40%. So we knew that there was a dislocation of pricing on new RVs compared to the inflation that had taken shape across the balance of it. We went in with a very heavy hand and a very big checkbook. And we're very clear with the manufacturers that in order for us to grow our business, and quite frankly, in our belief for them to grow theirs, there had to be anywhere from a 20% to 25% year-over-year like model reduction in price. We were successful in doing that. And so when we got into 2024, 2 things that we understood. From the bottom of the spectrum to the top of the spectrum, we needed price concessions. And then furthermore, we understood that if price had escaped all of us in all the segments, we were going to need to create products and focus on stocking products that were allowing the customer to hit their particular affordable price point. That's what drove the ASPs down. We wanted to meet the customer exactly where they were. As we head into '25, we've continued that theme, but we've now gotten back into the used business. We had vacated the used spectrum for about 12 months. And the reason that we did that is the dislocation of new pricing leads to the dislocation of used values, and we needed to cleanse through inventory. We're now back in both of them, and that's why our business has taken off here in the first quarter.

And as Marcus alluded to in terms of what drove the 2024 market share, that's continued in '25 with our product development and the inventory strategy, where -- we recently had an event in Tampa, where we unveiled a lot of our model year '25 contract manufactured products. Specifically on the motorized side, we are hitting price points -- introducing price points that the industry hasn't seen on the motorized category for almost 10 years, maybe longer. And so that strategy -- and they're actually our top-selling models for the first 2 months of the year in the motorized category. So as we think about market share in 2025 on the new side, we, at the very least, expect to defend it but...

Grow it.

And grow it.

We will grow our market share in '25. That's an absolute mandate both on the new and used side. And while we ended the year at 11.2%, and it's important for people to understand the context, that's all new and used RVs sold in America, including private parties. So if you bought from your neighbor, we consider that part of our overall market. And if we don't get that transaction, that's a loss for us. We ended the year at 11.2%. We have a definitive goal of breaking 12% in 2025. And we're agnostic how that comes. It can come from new or used. We just want to make sure that we're a bigger part of the market.

Perfect. I actually wanted to ask a sort of longer-term question on market share. What is the sort of angle if you think about the new side of the business? Is there a chance where Camping World could represent over 30% new share in the U.S.?

This is going to sound funny, but total world domination with good start. But absent total world domination, our short-term goal over the next 3 or 4 years is to find our way to 15%. And people say,, why 15% and why not 17% is we want our stores and our managers and our rest of our company to have a goal that we believe we can get to. We think that if the new market continues to be relatively flat to slightly up in that $350,000 to $400,000 range -- 400,000 unit range, we're going to have to make up all of that gap on the used side. We think we're capable of doing that. But 15% in the short term with -- there's really no cap, I would say, it was a fair statement?

Fair statement.

As long as it's profitable. So market share can't come at the expense of our investors, and they can't come at the expense of leverage. It needs to be profitable growth, not just growth for growth's sake.

Correct. As long as it's profitable, and we will not acquire units for units' sake when it comes to dealerships. And so I think logically, when you think about hitting a number like 30%, like you said, getting the store count up towards a target that we have over the next 5-plus years of 300-plus stores, that would drive. But we will not do that just simply to meet a number. It will be focused on profitability.

Perfect. I just wanted to ask, can you talk about your new inventory strategy this year just in terms of the types of units you're prioritizing as well as any shifts in your brand strategy versus last year? I know last year, Forest River gained a significant amount of share as a percent of your mix. And I think Thor may have lost some share. How is that changing in 2025? And what's driving that?

I think the goal is obviously to be a good partner to everybody. We'll start with that. Forest River has become a bigger partner. We did almost $800 million with them last year. We want to get to $1 billion. But we also recognize the importance of that not always needing to come at the expense of others. And Thor has been a phenomenal partner since the day I started the business 23 years, 24 years ago, whatever it was. And they really gave me a chance when nobody else would. So my loyalty will always be with Thor. However, it's most responsible as a fiduciary of our business to ensure that we're putting the right product on the ground at the right price, at the right time to drive shareholder value and to drive market share. I would put that Thor's market share drop on our lot is probably something that will take 100% of the responsibility. That's probably the right thing to do publicly and privately. Maybe they want to accept some responsibility, I don't know. But we'll assume that we're going to go into 2025 with one caveat: maintain and grow the Forest River business and give Thor more market share. We control that. Whether it's through our contract manufacturing, whether it's through opening up new doors, we want to do that. If it comes at the expense of not Forest River and not Thor, I'm fine with that. I think the one thing about Thor that's probably misunderstood is how the relationship works between the 2 of us. We tend to be advocates for their brands, both Keystone and Jayco. 40% of our new business comes from Coleman, Eddie Bauer, Pioneer, Mallard, our contract manufactured units. Every single quarter, and maybe this is where we give them some credit. At the end of the quarter, we do a tally of all the units that we sold. And then we look at all the Thor units that we sold, particularly the ones that we sold at a loss, then we get on the phone. And we say to them, "In order for this relationship to grow or continue, we need to share in the risk of us taking on inventory and taking risks on inventory as long as you continue to acknowledge that the good and the bad come together." We will not continue to take on inventory risks without the manufacturers sharing in the losses. Now over time, as the market gets better and as velocity picks up and as turns pick up, those losses subside. But Thor has continued and will happen again here at the end of the first quarter to stand behind us taking inventory risk and then sharing in that risk.

Perfect. You mentioned contract manufacturing in your remarks there. I think that's been a large part of your strategy. Can you just talk to us about your contracting manufacturing strategy, how it's a differentiator, what your current penetration is, what you plan to get to? Are there margin differentials with your contract manufacturing units?

Yes. So when you think about contract manufacturing, and we really call it that for a reason because I think a lot of the nomenclature around private label is essentially taking a can of green beans and putting a new label around it, right, or taking a new RV and putting a different sticker on it. We work very closely with both Thor and Forest River to design the floor plan, to also decorate the interior, the exterior, work with the suppliers to make sure we're getting the right cost on the right parts and having the right aftermarket service and supply chain behind it. And so really, that partnership, if you will, has allowed us to really create Coleman into what it is today. It allows us to play the entire spectrum.

And number one -- Coleman is the #1 selling travel trailer in America, period, end of story.

And so when you think about what we did with 2025, particularly on Coleman, we introduced the 13B, which is an industry-leading price point of $9,999 retail. That is, I think, very hard for the competition to touch. And as -- I'd say, outfitted exactly the same as a lot of the competitive product out there. And that now has extended on to our motorized side when we think about our Class A, our Class B and our Class C. So it's really in partnership with the OEMs, but focused on the customer inputs that we get because we're the closest to the customer using that insight and putting into the units that we sell.

I liken it to finding a co-packer as a food company. You're still the originator of the idea, the originator of the floor plan, the procurer of the license. So we operate Coleman and Eddie Bauer as the 2 primary brands, but you still need the OEM/manufacturer to do the engineering, to do the value engineering, to work with them on lowering the BOM, to work with the suppliers on solving problems for them at the same time. It truly is a trifecta. And Lippert has played an integral role in that process as well as we look at obsolete or excess frames, obsolete or excess furniture or appliances and bringing that all together with one particular goal, and that's to drive things down. I think the missing element in the contract manufacturing success is that it's about 40% of our business today, 38% or 40% of our business. And there isn't a magic number of whether we want it to be 41% or 39%. What we want to do is make sure that every product that we're developing will turn and will deliver us a consistent margin. When we -- when that product leaves Indiana, the one differentiator in why we think we also gain shares because we normalize freight. And freight is a secret little problem in the industry that doesn't get enough attention. Unlike the auto business where you're loading 8 or 12 cars on the transport, these units are moved one by one with somebody literally driving them. So a dealer of ours in Oregon and a dealer of ours in Indiana will receive that unit at the same price. That -- when you look at the country and you look at our market share as a W, through the coast and down through the middle, it gives them a competitive advantage, particularly in markets like Texas and California and Florida, where we're looking to grow share. I would expect there to be a disproportionate amount of private label business in those markets versus Indiana or Ohio.

Perfect. I just wanted to shift to inventory. I think you had a few remarks earlier on inventory. How do you feel about current inventory levels in new, both for yourself and for the overall industry, if we look at it more broad-based?

I feel like our inventory is really where it needs to be. And we tend to be a little bit more aggressive in stocking our shelves slightly earlier than the competition. I, individually, as a supporter and an advocate for our industry, just as much as our own business, feel like dealers are short on inventory today. And again, as I mentioned earlier, I think the manufacturers have to be a little bit more proactive in educating dealers on what the market is doing, what the type codes are that are selling and getting them to fill their shelves. Again, as I mentioned earlier, most people sort of scratched their head and wonder why I would be advocating for that. Our Good Sam business, which is our real jewel of our company, our service business, our parts business and our used business are all really -- I think they feed off of the overall health of the industry. So if the shipments in 2025 are less than or equal to the number of retail units, we will again end the year understocked. I'm looking for the manufacturers and the dealers to overdeliver anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 units more than what gets retailed so that we can start to have some confidence in growing this industry again. If we continue to sit at 350,000, 400,000, 425,000, 450,000 are a long way away. And as retail consumer rates continue to come down, this is a fact, they're about 1 point to 1.5 points lower than they were the same time last year, we're going to struggle to get the volume back up. We won't struggle as a company, but the industry will. We need the industry to be successful.

Yes. You touched a bit on it earlier, but I wanted to ask about sort of near-term demand trends on the new side. I think you said that same-store units were up low single digit in January. February is expected to be down modestly given some erratic weather patterns. You had one of your best weekends of the year in February. What's sort of the outlook for -- as we get closer to selling season as we sort of enter March here on the new side? Are you feeling pretty optimistic?

Yes, yes. So I think as you think about what happened, and we talked about in the fourth quarter call, January was definitely a good month in terms of new and used same-store sales. Both came in line with really how we were expecting the year. As we moved through February, the first 14 days were pretty erratic from a weather standpoint. I mean we were going into weekends with 20, 30, 40, 50 stores closed, right? So it's very disruptive. And as we got into just about the middle of the month, the weather broke, and we started to see those demand trend lines and that momentum return to the business in a very significant way. And so we talked about having a record weekend in February. That's been followed up by 2 record weekends here in March. And so then -- that's new and used combined. I say the used business is tracking very well, almost exceptionally as we think about the used inventory that we put on the lot and gotten that business really back on track. New is still tracking positive when we think about that from a new same-store sales basis and more in line with...

Even with the industry being down.

Even with the industry being down. So the market share gains, we see that continuing on the new side. We definitely see it continuing on the used side. And now that we've gotten through that weather and as we've gotten deeper into March, we still feel very confident about how the business is trending from a demand standpoint.

Perfect. I wanted to shift focus to sort of new margins before we shift to the used side. I think you got...

Is that your way of trying to get a guidance out of us by setting all the building blocks together? Okay. We'll give you the tent poles. Don't worry.

So I think you guided for new gross margins of 13.5% to 14% on the new side in 2025.

Yes. Just to be clear, all these guideposts are full year 2025.

Yes, yes. I think -- so you did 14.4% in 2024, right? So a slight deceleration on the new. I guess, what is driving that? And then what could drive upside to the sort of margin thresholds within new?

Yes. So when we think about our used margin, we articulated this guideposts, 13.5% to 14%...

New, yes, new.

On the new side, on the new side. It really goes back to meeting the customer where they're at and where they want to spend their dollar and the focus on affordability. So if you look back historically, 13.5% to 14% is a very, very good margin rate on the new side for this business. And so we feel very good about putting those type of numbers up back in 2024 and repeating that same range if we -- as we sit here for 2025.

Perfect. Shifting to used...

Just to clarify, it's important when you look at the margins overall on the new side, 13% to 14%, which is where we think we'll be for the full year, is still much better than even pre-COVID new margins. So we've gotten a lot better. I think the contract manufacturing has accelerated that. But 13% to 14% is -- there were many years prior to COVID where we were 11% and 12%. And so I just want to have that reference point. Obviously, the COVID period was outsized from that, but it's important to just have that as a marker.

Perfect. Well, shifting to the used side of things. Can you talk about the state of the use market, particularly your sort of recent resumption of used vehicle procurement? And you had an interesting comment last earnings about the value of used coming up. Can you talk about what that indicates in terms of the health of the overall market?

So we believe that we'll be in that 19-plus range for the full year of 2025. That will accelerate quarter by quarter by quarter. And one of the things that causes it to accelerate is we'll start to buy more used. Through the balance of 2024, we had pulled back. Towards the end of '24, we started accelerating the level of consignments that we have. And so when you look at our used inventory on the lot, it comes into 2 forms: inventory that we buy or trade that we own with our cash and inventory that we can sign. The beauty of consignments is that you don't have your cash deployed. The downside of consignments is that they're usually 400 to 500 basis points lower in margin. And the reason for that is that the consumer has a higher expectation closer to market, and you don't get to enjoy that. As we get further away from Q1 and our inventory on the ground shifts to more owned versus consigned, that margin will nicely tick up and get to that 19% range for the full year. I think the thing that I'm most excited about is we understand the used business better than anybody. This market gave us a balance sheet with $350 million of cash on our balance sheet to go out and buy used. And I will tell you that the used consumer -- let me back up. The one fun fact that I don't think it's talked about enough is that over the last 40 years, the number of RVs in circulation has never ever gone backwards. What does that mean? That means that people rarely come and leave. The challenge with that is, is that if there's not a lot of new units coming into the market, we go from 350 to 500 back down to 350. It plays games with the supply side of the used market. If these tariffs take effect on the new side, which we're anticipating 2 to 3 points on the new side, not impactful to us at all. It actually is an accelerator for our used business because it substantiates the used values. It substantiates our willingness to pay a little bit more. But we're having to work hard. We're going to sell north of 6,000 units in the month of March alone. We only have 17,000 used units on the ground. So you're taking out a big chunk. We have some work to do to continue to replenish that at a very rapid pace. So I would say that the used market has stabilized and has strengthened very well. And so that bodes well for us and it bodes well for the consumer.

Perfect. I wanted to ask about the sort of dispersion in the growth between used and new, particularly this year. I think you're 10% to 15% on the used side, low single-digit growth on the new. What is driving the dispersion? Is it as simple as comps on the used side? And then has the resumption of the used vehicle procurement impacted the sell-through of new? Can you just talk about those dynamics?

We're historically and we'll forever be agnostic to which unit the customer buys. Our job at the store level and our job as a company is to serve the customer with wide offerings both on price and floor plan, and we're agnostic of whether they buy new or used. However, we're capitalists and we like to make money, and we make more money on used. The worst-performing margin on used on a transaction is still better than the best-performing transaction on new. And so while we will always maintain a level of agnostic nature when it comes to newer use, we will rebuild our shelves unused. And by definition, the more you put on the table, the more that will be consumed. And so we're expecting in a perfect world to get close to that 50-50 new to used. What we really want to focus on is how do we grow the used business, not at the expense of our new business. And so we've committed to bust our fannies to have year after year after year of new growth. So that's stacked market share growth on the new side, but we're not going to mitigate our use to do that. I don't know if you want to add something to that.

Correct. Yes. When you think about the complexion of how we're thinking about 2025 and the guidepost between new and used, I mean, we made some very deliberate decisions in 2024 to pull back, take down our used values and really just let the market settle out, right? There was a lot of disruption caused by the 2024 model year pricing changes, and we really needed to have the confidence in the pricing stability in the market. So comps is going to be one driver of the used and us replenishing the shelves and buying that used inventory again back in full force and getting that flywheel going. And on the new side, comps are also a driver. We had very, very healthy growth last year. We expect to gain market share this year. We're comping positive thus far in 1Q. So that trend is intact, but I'd say the comps are a bigger piece of that push and pull.

It's about selling more units and making more money in '25. And we're going to set the table to maximize that to the best of our ability. And the gap between our terrible bottom line performance in '24, while the market share was amazing, our terrible bottom line performance in '24 and an average performance in '25, in line with where the market thinks we're going to be at 3.35%, is really going to come on the backs of used. We need that extra gross profit to deliver.

Perfect. We have less than 10 minutes left, so I wanted to open it up to see if we had any audience Q&A. Sir, we have a mic.

Just a couple of questions. First -- and forgive me, I just don't know as much about your industry, but it's the spread that you make on used is better than on new. Is that right?

Correct. So the margins typically on new are 13% to 14%. The margin is typically on used are 18.5% to 20%. And then you look at the F&I and the service work. So it's a far more lucrative transaction in general.

Okay. And do those used sales also come with like service agreements, so you're capturing the service on the back end?

So any transaction, new or used, goes through an F&I office, no different than when you buy a car. You go in and they offer you warranty, roadside insurance and all those things. And our performance, both on new and used, is relatively the same. We're at about 11.5% to 12% of the total purchase price of the vehicle as F&I performance, which is really kind of -- if you looked at the auto, public autos and you looked at other RV dealers, we tend to outperform that by using our Good Sam brand.

So if we get into a tariff world like having a competency in used, I'm assuming it's going to be good for you? Like it will drive -- will it drive the used market higher if the cost of all the other new stuff in the -- I don't know, getting parts and stuff from outside the U.S.?

Yes. So we expect there to be some price increases on the new side, 2% to 3%. And the one thing that's important to note is that unlike the auto business, where a dealer that has 100 stores or 1 store buys the Ford for the same price, we don't buy our new for the same price. We have a significant competitive advantage on the new side. So the tariff increase on new does not impact us the same. However, one of the inputs, a primary input that determines our valuation of use is a derivative of new invoice pricing. And so if there is an increase in the new pricing for a variety of reasons, whatever they may be, there's a corresponding increase to the used values that bolsters our current position, and it gives us the confidence to increase the values that we're offering for trade or for purchase. I think the other nuance in that is that the dealers that we compete with typically floor plan their used inventory. They don't have the balance sheet that we have. And when they floor plan it, the bank gives them a 65% to 75% advance rate. What that means is for every used trade they take in or purchase they make, they have to come up with the 25% to 35% working capital to close that gap. We know that the used business is a weapon for us. So as we're driving and growing our used business, we're also increasing the values of our trades, which is also putting pressure on our competition, which is what gives us the ability to grow our new market share and our used market share at the exact same time.

Do you offer finance also?

We do. So we operate just like an RV -- just like an auto dealership. When you come into our finance office, it could be Bank of America, it could be M&T, it could be Bank of the West, a variety of them. And we don't hold that paper. We act as an agent of all of the retail lenders in our portfolio. We get a buy rate and then we have a sell rate, and we make the spread. And then financing in the RV industry ranges from 120 months to 240 months. So if you could visualize receiving a menu like you would at a car wash or like you would at a shoeshine, you take the base amount that you're financing less the down payment, so the total amount financed. We show you what the payment is based on the terms, 120, 180, 240. And then we show you packages, a platinum package, a gold package or a silver package. And we offer all the good same products, warranty, roadside, travel assist, insurance, and they get factored into that payment. So when a customer leaves, we want to make sure that they have the things that they need because these RVs break, the things that they need because they sometimes end up on the side of the road. And so when you leave with a $310 payment, it includes all of those products inside of it.

Okay. Just last one for me, migrant labor. Just any -- to the extent we're thinking about potential just either labor shortage or higher labor costs related to what's happening with the migrant community, just any impact we should be thinking about?

Yes. So obviously, we have different labor pools in our organization. Our sales organization is a commission-based, our sales manager organization is a commission-based. But our frontline folks that take care of our facilities, take care of our inventory, take care of our shop, there is some small level of susceptibility there to the general environment, but not in our business. Our folks are -- they're compliant in all cases with the law.

I'm curious about this category that you said has been selling that hasn't sold in 10 or 15 years. Is that the...

Yes. Yes, exactly. So the question -- exactly. So the question was more around the comment we made previously about motorized pricing and with our private label and contract manufacturing, taking certain Class A, Class Bs and Class Cs down to price points that the motorized industry hasn't seen in 10 years. So really, what that's doing is it's opening up the funnel and allowing customers to come in and purchase units at essentially monthly payments that they haven't been able to hit for quite a while. If you think about the motorized category in particular, it's been more challenged -- significantly more challenged than other parts of the RV industry because the price increases have almost been relentless. And that's really been a function of the chassis from the auto OEMs. While on the travel trailer side, we've been able to see input cost relief, we've been able to see invoice price relief while motorized continues to go up. So being able to hit those price points in a very inflationary category is driving that incremental demand.

Yes. Let me double-click on that a little bit. The bulk of our business thesis has always been and will always be to play to the widest funnel of the market, period, end of story. We want to do volume and we want to meet a lot of customers to buy all of those products. As you go up the price pendulum and you think about type codes, travel trailer, fifth wheel, C class, B class and A class and diesel, we tend to not play in the diesel space. That's just not our business. We like fast turns and we like to make money. And the higher you get, you get a customer that wants to shop the heck out of it, give you 2 or 3 points of margin, not do any financing and not buy any products, no, thank you. As we think about those other categories, what we learned in the last 24 months is that if we could take one type code and find ourselves at the entry level but value level of that each type code, which means we don't take like refrigerators out. We don't decontent it. We do value engineering. We started in January, and we rolled out a similar thesis on Bs, which is -- looks like a van, a similar thesis on Cs and a similar thesis on Class A gas. And oddly enough, through 75 days of the market, the Class A, B and C that we rolled out in those 3 categories are now our #1 selling floor plan. And so it's proof that the segments can all exist. We just need to find ourselves in the elasticity curve that customers are really going to respond.

In the front here, mic...

Interested in your perspective on your core customer in the red states. Like what one's risk of rattling the sentiment of that consumer? It makes sense why they were excited post November, and maybe you saw an acceleration. It sounds like they're still strong. What is it that rattles that consumer? Is it wealth effect? Is it geopolitical volatility? Curious.

So when you think about our customer just globally, we are 690 and above in a credit score, $100,000 and above in an income stream, typically conservative, either firefighter, police officers, schoolteacher, business owner, professional. What would affect anybody, whether it's the red customer, the blue customer is if there are massive terminations and the job market completely falls apart. And now we have a little bit more insulation in our business because of the type of customer we have and the professions that they have. And even if it's a local or state government worker, they seem to be pretty well insulated. If I worried about any specific part of our market, I think about Northern Virginia. We have a store in Manassas, 30 miles outside of Washington, D.C. We actually had a great February and are off to a good start. But if I had any trepidation, I start thinking about where federal government workers may find themselves either taking a buyout or unemployed. If they take a buyout, we'd be happy to sell them something so they could drive around the country. But there is some risk there. And as the market continues to have some flexing around tariffs or around whatever it may be, if that customer starts to be laid off in a more accelerated pace that -- we could all be vulnerable in that sense. I don't think that's going to happen in the near term. I think the workers that we're seeing get flexed a little bit historically have not been our customer.

I would say so, yes. Correct.

Perfect. Well, I think we are over time. So we'll have to leave it there, but I want to thank the...

I want to just give those -- the one thing that I want to end with is just reminding people of the tent poles. So if you are building your own model, the way that we want you to think about our business is new same-store sales up low single digit, used same-store sales up 10% to 15%. We hope to outperform that. Margins on new, 13% to 14% for the full year; margins on used, 18.5% to 19.5% for the full year; and SG&A improving 600 to 700 basis points over the full year 2024. If you use those inputs, you'll land somewhere around where the market has us, all the analysts have us guiding. I think that's in the 330-ish range. We believe strongly that, that is a very good assessment. And that's a material improvement from 2024. Those people that have met with us over the last couple of days like to pressure-test that. What's the risk in that? We will continue to make changes inside of our business either with mix, either with headcount, whatever it takes, to ensure that we get to that number.

Perfect. Well, thanks again to the Camping World team. Thanks, Marcus. Thanks, Brett.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.