Cantaloupe, Inc. (CTLP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. I'm John Hall. I'm the Vice Chairman of Investment Banking at JPMorgan. Welcome to our fireside chat with Sean Feeney, the CEO of Cantaloupe. As many of you probably know, Cantaloupe is a software and payments company that provides end-to-end technology solutions for the unattended retail market. It offers integrated solutions across payment processing, logistics and back office management. Sean joined Cantaloupe as CEO in May of 2020. So this is his first year anniversary. He previously served as the CEO of GT Nexus, a cloud supply chain platform; and DefenseStorm, a cybersecurity management platform. Sean, welcome, and congratulations on finishing your first year at the company. It's obviously been an eventful year for USA Technologies/Cantaloupe. Maybe you could share some highlights and perspectives on the year.

Great. Thanks, John. Of course, the year has flown by as it does whenever you're busy. And we've gotten a lot accomplished in the 12 months here at the company, and that's a testament to our outstanding employees and the new management team that I've brought in. As you said, I came in, in May of last year as part of Hudson Executive Capital winning a proxy battle and basically putting in place a brand-new Board, very talented Board and bringing me in. And we've done a number of things. One, first of all, because of things that had gone on in the past, the Board made the decision to essentially remove all of the executives. So I took over and essentially very quickly had to build a new executive management team, and we accomplished that rather quickly. We also had a debt instrument in place that was part of debt financing, but also a poison pill, and we refinanced that with JPMorgan's help to get traditional bank financing at much more favorable terms. We've set about rebuilding the culture and reenergizing the company. The company had been through a delisting proxy battle, 6 CFOs, 3 CEOs -- 6 CFOs over a couple of year period and 3 CEOs, I was the third. So getting the company kind of on its feet and moving again was critical. We relisted the company on NASDAQ successfully in the October time frame. In February, with JPMorgan's help, we raised a $55 million private placement that was oversubscribed. And then in April, we rebranded the company from USA Technologies to Cantaloupe to kind of give us a couple of things. One, reenergize and give us a new brand. As one of my customers said, welcome to the 2000s from the 1980s. But more importantly, we plan to expand internationally and having a name that's not USA is advantageous to that. So we've made a lot of progress with the company, while we've -- all of it during the pandemic. We've continued to grow customers and grow active devices out there. And we're poised for a great recovery coming out of the pandemic, which we see accelerating on a day-by-day basis.

Sean, explain where the Cantaloupe name comes from. I think some people know and maybe not everybody does.

Sure. As you know, whenever you rebrand a company, the most difficult thing is to find the trademarks and names that are available or that you own. And USA Technologies had acquired a company called Cantaloupe Systems. We owned the name Cantaloupe, it had outstanding brand recognition within our main industries, had a great reputation for innovation and customer focus, and the color scheme in branding was -- we updated that a bit, but it was just perfect for us. So that's where the name comes. I think I get a lot of questions. Am I trying to copy Apple by going with a fruit? But it's really -- we liked it, it had great brand recognition and the positive reaction from bringing the bell on NASDAQ to our people who have been with USAT a long time as well as our customers and prospects and shareholders has been outstanding.

There's an updated color scheme, too. You've said the name change represents the "culmination" of a transformative change in the company. Now you talked a little bit about some of the things, the corporate events and other things you went through, but talk a little bit more philosophically why -- what the change means?

Well, I think USA Technologies really built a great part of the unattended retail space, partnering with innovators like ourselves out there, but had been through a lot and had, to a certain extent, become demoralized. And so part of the rebranding in the bright color scheme is showing the energy of the employees that we've got and returning us really to a position of innovation and thought leadership. And I know we're going to talk about some of the partnerships and new products and things that we've got coming, but that represents where we're going and what we're trying to do with the company. So look, changing a name doesn't transform -- provide a great transformation, but it is a capstone on the work that we've been doing to reenergize, get our employees going, make it clear on what we're trying to do, transparency with them on where we're doing well and where we're falling short and driving to serve our customers, of which we've got 18,000 every day in the best way that we can.

And Sean, in terms of the road map ahead, where you are in terms of that transformative change, you've accomplished a lot in the last 6 to 9 months. Are you -- what inning are you in, so to speak? Are you in the third inning, fourth inning, sixth inning, how do you think about that?

I think we are in the six, maybe the seventh inning. There's still work to be done at the company. I'm very happy with the products and the growth drivers we've got looking to the future. One of the things that we found when we got to the company is an underinvestment in our infrastructure systems and integration of the Cantaloupe Systems acquisition that we have done. So we've made significant progress there. The company also had outside third parties, consulting organizations that were performing a lot of our finance function, and we've successfully removed all of that cost out of the business over the last 8 or 9 months. And moving that forward, we're implementing NetSuite and a number of other internal systems that will give us operating leverage in the following years by automating customer interactions, giving our customer service and salespeople the best, most up-to-date information on intelligence and what's going on with the customer and then making sure that we're able to form the finance test in a manner that we can. And then taking that -- the savings and investing that for growth either in sales and marketing or on the product side.

So let's move to some of the new products and innovations that you've announced. Many of these you've announced just in the last 2 months, I think, if I recall correctly. So why don't we just go through one at a time. To Seed Cashless+, which is an upgrade, I think, of your core cash Seed product, maybe you could talk a little bit about that?

Sure. We've been pretty busy. And maybe just as a background for the people listening into the chat here is we have 3 lines of revenue. We have hardware, which is think of a digital payment device. We have subscription that we get from either the management of that ePort, digital payment device or our Seed software platform, which basically guides the operation and logistics of the operators and our customers. And then we get transaction fees for the payments from that. And we've been innovating in all of those as we've gone along. As you mentioned, we have 18,000 customers, and we're working on how to monetize the lower end of that market space. Seed Cashless+ is a scaled down version of our Seed platform, which automates and makes the operation more efficient for the smaller operator, and it's one of the focus areas that I have. We do a very good job of monetizing the top end of our customer base, but the lower end has been primarily just the ePort device and the transactions, and we're looking at how we layer software on to that. We've added enhancements around our office coffee service and our pantry service and the ability to from the Seed platform, very easily do integration and order supplies and product from their procurement partners. And then we've been working hard on some new hardware devices that are part of some partnerships that we announced most recently.

Do you want to talk about ePort Engage, this is one of the new products, I think, you just referred to in the Castles relationship?

Sure. One of the theories I had when I came in is that the company had traditionally, and being one of the inventors of the space and an innovator, we designed and built our own devices. And we will continue to do that, but we also wanted to go out to hardware partners and look for the best devices that were available out there to continue to add innovation to our customers and be able to offer multiple hardware devices. So we did a deal with Castles Technologies, one of the leading point-of-sale device companies in the world. Their U.S. headquarters happens to be here in Atlanta, which makes it where I am, which makes it convenient. And then we most recently announced our first device, which is the ePort Engage device. And the ePort Engage device is a touch device with a very nice interactive screen and it will unlock a number of innovations as we go forward. Think of customer interaction, merchandising, loyalty, the ability to advertise on that, offer promotions, all sorts of things that we'll -- our customers are asking for, and we'll be able to deliver using the Castles device that is our ePort Engage device. We will continue to have our traditional ePort device, G10 device for those that just need the digital payment capability with all the new bells and whistles, whether that is EMV capable or anything else. And we've also announced a new partnership to accept crypto payments beginning in the October, November time frame with Bakkt, here -- a company here in Atlanta that has a great platform for utilizing crypto. We'll see what the take will be on crypto, but we are looking constantly for new ways of payment that match what our customers are asking for and how the consumer ultimately wants to interact with that, whether that's a cryptocurrency transaction, whether that's a credit card transaction, whether that's a cash transaction. And ultimately, I think you'll see us add other closed-loop loyalty campus cards. We're working on the ability to pay with loyalty points, all those sort of things are things that are coming in the future.

Just from a qualitative point of view, are there certain things and innovations or efforts that you guys are going to be focused on, without getting too specific on products? I mean are there certain guiding principles you have?

Well, I think that if you look at, what we're trying to do is, I'm trying to add more monthly recurring revenue onto the stack that I have at that payment device. So today, we have the subscription fee that we get for providing our Seed live product, which is how our operators manage their anywhere from tens to -- tens of thousands of devices out there, get information on their sales, whether that's daily, weekly or monthly, they have the ability to activate and deactivate devices and interact with us. So we get a subscription fee for that. We add the Seed capability on and that has functionality around route optimization, around inventory management. And what I ultimately want to do is add an additional software module every 12 to 18 months onto that stack and drive the recurring revenue, which, of course, is our highest-margin product, and that will be key to margin expansion as we go forward. The first of those is in testing right now. It's our remote price change capability. It allows the operator the ability to change prices on his remote unattended retail device, whether that be the cost of goods went up or they think they can charge a premium or the products about to expire and they want to lower the price. That capability is an example of some of the things that we're doing. And then looking at what else the operators want. They want the ability to manage messaging and loyalty with their end user customer. They want the ability to help with procurement and in some cases at the lower end of the market, we're looking at doing some things around maybe small ticket lending for the lower end of the market. So we've got a lot of great ideas around that. And then looking at ways that we can provide alternate payment mechanisms that may have different economics for the operator and for us than the traditional credit card players. And I think you are going to see cash being disintermediated and continuing to increase. We've seen cash versus cashless -- excuse me, cashless versus cash go from 59% credit card transactions in January of 2020 to 65% in -- at the end of March in 2021. So you've seen the tailwinds of that. Cash, of course, is declining, and there's a lot of innovation going on around things that could be alternative payment methods. Many that the listeners would know from crypto to Venmo to Zelle, any of those sort of things to potential closed-loop system. So we're looking and working on kind of all of those things as our operators are asking us to do.

That sounds like a lot of things to be working on, Sean.

Some of them are on the whiteboard, some of them are in development, and some of them are ideas right now. But they're in various stages, and we'll announce several things coming up at our big trade show at NAMA in mid-August in New Orleans.

Could you talk a little bit about the value proposition you offer to your customers? Because I've always been impressed with what your -- the kind of a revenue uptick and the cost savings that you can generate. Maybe you can give the audience bit of a perspective on that?

Sure. What we're trying to provide to the operator and think of the operator as the business that puts out unattended retail devices, whether that's a vending machine, whether that's an air/vac machine at a convenience store, gas station, car wash, massage chairs, amusement devices in the front of Walmart lobbies, we're the digital payment device around that, and always looking for ways that we can expand into other verticals. But the key is for us, when you put a digital payment device, sales at that point-of-sale almost always go up. Anecdotally, what we hear from customers is it goes up anywhere from 15% to 25% because people just spend more money when they've got a credit card in their hand and when they've got to pull cash out and get the right change or fine quarters of those sort of things. So we see that we increase revenue by making it easier to pay and easier to spend more money at the -- at the device. On the flip side, our Seed platform helps reduce cost. And what I heard when I got here and over the last 12 months from our operators is they couldn't have survived the COVID pandemic without Seed. Because Seed made it very efficient and very quick for them to downsize their routes, downsize their people, downsize their operation. And then as it started to come back, they've been very efficient to bring it back. So if you think about what we're doing is ultimately helping them manage their inventory in their warehouse, make sure that they're going to the right machines on the right route, on the right days, so that things are getting there just in time with the right mix. And so they're not returning products, they don't have inefficiencies. And so we've seen anywhere from 20% to 35% reduction in cost by reducing routes, better managing inventory, better managing the merchandising mix within the device. And so it's a nice platform in that we raise revenue and cut costs when you're all in with our platform.

Let me ask one more question, then I will go to -- we got a question or 2 in chat. We're just trying to keep that pace going. We'll go to that. But let me ask you about COVID and kind of the impact it had, but what you're actually seeing today, as hopefully the pandemic receding, are you seeing evidence of that in your business? And what are the implications?

Yes. We're actually absolutely seeing improvement. And I would say COVID impacted our business in a couple of areas. One, I think like everybody, it's just difficult managing a remote workforce, especially when you're a new CEO coming in with an all-new management team, and that's always difficult. But I think we've made good progress by frequent updates and town hall meetings and those sort of things. What our operators saw has been kind of the prolonged impact of COVID has been in the office location. So if they have an operation predominantly in, call it, Downtown New York, Boston, Chicago, L.A., San Francisco, they've seen significant decrease or decline in their business and in their operation because people just aren't in those offices. So most of our operators have 3 main lines of business. They have a coffee service/pantry office in an office. They have a vending machine, vending business, and then they have micro markets, which are mainly mini convenience stores serviced by a kiosk. If you're in a downtown office in any city, there's just no one there. And so those have been significantly hit. We think the impact to us was probably 15% to 20% on our transactions. On the flip side, those that were in industrial and manufacturing came back fairly quickly last summer. And we really saw things progressing nicely through 2020 up until kind of the reemergence of the pandemic in the first week of November. And then we saw kind of our transactions go flat for November, December, January into February. Last week in February, we began to see a recovery, and we've seen that recovery continue almost every week since. So we're optimistic that the pandemic is on the decline. We're very excited that, led by your CEO, Jamie Dimon saying, he's not going to do any more Zoom meetings, and everybody is going to come back to the office. And we're seeing people really make a move towards that. I think there's -- we're going to have -- continue to have some remote workers, but I think a lot of our operators that are predominantly in those locations are going to see a recovery. So our operators that were in offices were the hardest hits. Schools were probably second. Transportation, third. Stadiums were probably fourth on the things that were impacted. And -- but we're definitely seeing the recovery. It's just a matter of how quick people kind of return to full occupancy in offices, and I think as we all know, there's varying opinions on what that's going to look like. I've heard kind of 2 key dates. People are either going to really move to be back in the office July 1, and probably a bigger number on September 1 or following later day. I think that what we've said all along is when children are back in school or involved in summer camp or recreation programs that pre -- their parents have to go back to the office, that's when we'll see the real recovery. Our fiscal year starts July 1. We think we're poised to really take advantage of kind of people coming back to work and seeing the reactivation of a lot of our devices that were deactivated, along with our operators beginning to reinvest capital and move forward as we go through our fiscal year '22 from July to June of next year.

So let me take one -- there's a question here in the chat room is, how do you think about long-term EBITDA or some sort of normalized earnings to value your stock?

Well, I think in pretty much every quarterly call since I've been here, I've talked that we believe that we can expand and grow EBITDA in the margin. What I did find in getting here was that there had been significant underinvestment for a period of time, and so we probably had to invest more than I thought we would coming in. But we are making those investments. I think you'll see EBITDA progress in next fiscal year, and I think you'll really see some good operating leverage in fiscal year '23 when we'll have all of the upgrades and things behind us. And I think our growth will be kind of what it's traditionally been as we look out. We see plenty of things that will drive growth in the outlying years. And I think we'll get operating leverage by the investments we're making on some of our infrastructure and some of the development that we'll recover and probably won't have to make that investment once we get past the next 12 to 24 months.

And Sean, are you guide -- what guidance you're giving to investors in terms of normalized EBITDA and growth over the next year or so?

We're coming up on the end of our year, and we haven't given kind of any guidance for next year yet. What we've said is that we believe that the growth will be in the mid-teens. And frankly, as the pandemic appears to be on the thing, I think we'll be at the high end, if not above that, quite frankly, and we should see growth in EBITDA. Our guidance for this year is revenue of $163 million to $171 million and adjusted EBITDA from positive 1% to positive 4%.

So here's another question regarding -- well, it's a number of questions. The question is [indiscernible] always said that massage chairs were a workaround way to get card acceptance for an adult product. How much of their business is massage chairs? And how much of these are volume? An Israeli competitor named Nayax just went public. They showed many global brands like Nestlé to endorse Nayax as a single global provider. So there are really 2 questions there.

Sure, sure. On the massage chair business, I don't see that as a workaround for, I guess, they called it adult entertainment. Massage chairs are a relatively small vertical for us. But there are a number of places I see our devices now that I never thought about before when I got here, but my wife's come to learn that I love to walk around airports and different places looking to see whether our devices are on there. And massage chairs is one of our verticals, as is car washes and laundries and airbags at convenience stores. On the second one, Nayax did go public recently on the Israeli Stock Exchange. They're a company that traditionally kind of grew up internationally in the Middle East and Europe and have expanded. They have a presence here in the United States and are a good competitor of ours. And you see some large global brands. But when you look at Nestlé and those sort of things, in our main markets, they don't move much. When you look at the logos they have for the United States, primarily where we are, they don't have anywhere near the big name logos that we have. But they are a good competitor. They make a good product, and we look forward to competing with them here in the U.S., and we're working to take the fight to them outside the U.S.

So let's get back to growth. Maybe you can talk about some of the initiatives. You have many initiatives driving growth going forward. I don't know which one you'd like to start with. But...

Yes. I think if you look at -- I talked a little bit earlier about what we think will drive growth in the future. I think, first of all, the biggest one is we just think you'll see unattended retail continue to grow. I think as labor becomes ever more expensive, people are looking for ways to basically put kiosks or payment devices in places that they can remove the labor. I think one of the places that you're going to see that is, I think, a lot of the cafeterias and food service operations in big offices are going to go away, and they're going to be replaced by more and more sophisticated micro markets. And that's a great unattended retail space. The ticket prices are higher. The ability to do -- add additional services on a larger payment screen to be able to have services around interacting with customers and marketing to them and then providing information back to either the operator or to the consumer products group ultimately is a revenue opportunity for us and for the operator. We believe that we can add additional software modules. If you think of a sales force or a ServiceNow or a NetSuite or SAP, everyone's got the basic model and then you continue to add on additional software modules that drive additional monthly recurring revenue. And think -- we've got 1 million devices out there, but think adding $0.50 to $1.50 per device in additional software modules or different -- additional services as we look out over the next 2, 3, 4 years. And then we also believe that pushing into more adjacent verticals and exploring that as we have done with some of the ones I mentioned, like laundry and carwashes, those sort of things. And then we're doing this all in the U.S. And so we've got some business development activity going on in Mexico and Latin America. We're working on some partnerships in Asia. And as we look forward to next fiscal year, we're looking to where can we expand and get a foothold in Europe. Some of those opportunities will be software. Some of those will be software and payments. And in many cases, there'll be partnership with local providers that need the additional service. And when you look at Latin America and Mexico, those have traditionally not been great unattended retail locations, but the cost of labor is going up there. And so you're seeing more interest and investigation into those markets as well. So we're looking at other international markets that we can additionally grow into. And so we think the growth drivers are in a number of different places and additional devices that we think we can get better margins on.

So let me just follow-up on a couple of those items. In terms of the software, do you see attachment rate attachment rates increasing in terms of your capacity to cross-sell and getting people stick to adopt the Seed platform?

Yes. If you look at it today, John, we believe that about 40%, 50% of our ePort devices have software attached to them, and we think that we can improve that over the next 24 months and improve the acceleration of that attachment. The big thing that's going on in our industry right now is the 3G cellular network, which a lot of these digital payment devices ride on is being sunset by Verizon and AT&T. That will -- the sunset will happen late in calendar '22, but people are beginning to upgrade their devices. And that is a competitive situation, but it's also an opportunity for us in that we're engaging closely with almost all of our customers, talking to them about their devices. In cases where they may have competitors' devices, we're trying to get them all in on our devices, and we're also looking at adding Seed an attachment rate. Once we get the Seed platform in there, I think that we can add things. The one we have in testing right now that I think I talked about was remote price change. That one will come to market in our next fiscal year. And I want to be able to add those -- add another one of those each year. So call it, $0.50 to $1, $1.50, even if the penetration is only 20%, 30%, that's per month per machine, and the numbers get pretty big pretty quick. So we're excited about what we can do there.

And in the other unattended segments, what would be the top 3 from your perspective in terms of opportunity going forward?

We're excited about the presence we have in the airbag space. We're excited about what potentially we could do in laundry. And we're making a lot of calls because there's a lot of activity right now around electronic vehicle stations. We've got a handful of those today that we're taking credit card payments for charging electronic vehicles, and that's a market that's going to explode, and there's a lot going on there. So we're excited about that. I would also say that traditionally, our Seed software platform has worked predominantly in the vending industry, but there's no reason we can't expand that into other logistics service routes. And when you look at anything that's got an inventory, drives a route to service either an unattended or an attended retail space, we think that there's a good opportunity for Seed. So we're working on how we expand into kind of nonvending on the software side where we may not have a payment device. We're also doing some things around Internet of Things devices that are connected to the Seed platform and the servicing of that. And we've got a very interesting pilot going now that if the early returns are successful, could be a very good opportunity for us. And I look forward to talking to that with you all in the future.

So another question coming from the investor seeking some guidance on the revenue and growth differential between the payments business and the software business. So both in terms of, I guess, quantum and also growth rates relative to, and I guess, then ultimately know in terms of margins and things like that.

Yes. I think when you're looking at our transaction business, and we lump license or subscription and transactions together. We continue to see -- the growth on that has been slowed a bit during the pandemic, but we think that we'll see very good growth on that. I think we should be growing the software part of that a bit faster than we are, and we're working hard on driving that. Some of that's held down by people not wanting to spend during the pandemic. But as we come out of it, I think that we'll see that opportunity, and we're looking to continue to add features and functions and additional modules that will help our sellers ultimately sell that. I think we'll have a big -- big year in hardware next year is the 3G to 4G upgrade will drive some devices, and I think we'll see very good sales with the ePort Engage device because it delivers on a lot of things that people want for merchandising and end consumer interaction with the touchscreen.

And a follow-up question also is, would you consider breaking out revenue by software versus hardware versus acquiring?

Yes. I think, ultimately, I want to give you, the investors, more transparency on that. As I talked about, our internal systems were not the best. When I got here, we were closing the books quarterly. We are now closing them monthly and putting in place the ability to get to that sort of information and know that it's reliable and break it out and give it to you. So ultimately, and I'm not -- I don't have a schedule yet, but I'd like to be able to give you a kind of monthly recurring revenue number, show you what the cost of goods sold are on credit card transactions, break that out and what the margin and differential looks like from a software business as well as the hardware business. And that's what consistently people have asked for since I got here. And we will do that probably most likely sometime during the next coming fiscal year, sometime in those next 4 quarters. And then the last one that we're working towards getting is giving you a good kind of revenue per unit economics that you can look at, track and see if we're making progress on adding to that. So I know you want that. I want to give it to you, and we're working towards that.

Another question from another investor. What was the functional overlap between USAT and Cantaloupe? So I guess the question is when you first acquired it, what was the overlap? And then the question is, how has that overlap changed over time?

Yes. So that's an excellent question. So if you look at it, USA Technologies effectively had their ePort device, and they had USA Live, which was essentially the system that managed those devices, managed the payment, managed all the reporting. And they got a -- they sold hardware, and then they got a license and transaction fees. Where they overlapped with Cantaloupe, Cantaloupe had a competitive device to the ePort, basically called the Seed device and -- Seed Cashless device, and then they had the software platform that USA Technologies didn't have. So prior to the acquisition of Cantaloupe, from a competitive point of view, one of the things that USA Technologies was doing was actually paying for other people's vendor management system, their version of Seed in order to get the cashless device. And so I actually pay for some of my competitors' monthly subscription fees still as I run out some of those contracts. So the only real overlap was in the cashless device, and we are slowly, as we can, porting those Seed cashless devices to ePorts and making sure that the feature function capability is there. But the theory behind the combination was the best vendor management system software platform with the best and largest digital platform. And from that point of view, it was a very smart strategic move. Didn't do a great job on the back end integration, and we're fixing that.

Let's talk about competition quickly. We only have a couple of minutes left. Has the competitive environment changed at all? And how are you seeing your relative position to other players? One of the investors asked about OTI, I don't know who OTI is, so maybe you do, Sean?

Yes. Sure. OTI is a hardware manufacturer. They're actually one of our partners that we work with, along with ID Tech and Castles. And we work on all of those devices. They sell devices to other people. And frankly, I wouldn't call them a competitor. I'd call them a partner that probably is a partner with other people that may be competing with us. We really have 3 main competitors. We have Crane, a long-time traditional manufacturer of vending systems and of payment devices. They have a software product as well. Nayax, which we got a question about earlier, which is in the U.S. has traditionally been at the lower end of the market and international, but they are aggressively coming -- competing on a number of the deals that we're in around 3G to 4G. And then 365 Markets, which is essentially the micro market product, that's where they focus, and that's a growing area that we'll be making some announcements soon. I would say there hasn't been a dramatic kind of change in the competitive landscape. We've seen Crane do some reduction in forces. I've actually had some good people that are former. Crane people know the industry pretty well. Nayax going public has raised a significant amount of money to expand their market and potentially do M&A. So it will be interesting to kind of watch them. And 365 Markets is one that -- they are private equity backed, and they've got a deal that we expect to be announced here fairly soon that combines the #1 and 2 player in that market. But we've got some things coming, and I think it's going to be good for us.

I think we've almost run the time. I guess we're over. So I just kind of note. But Sean, thank you very much for the time. Thank you for the investors who joined us. Appreciate it. It was a good conversation, and good luck in the year ahead, Sean.

We're excited about our next fiscal year, and we appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all today and for your interest in the company. And John, it's always good to see you, and we'll talk to you all down the road. Thank you very much.

Likewise. Take care, Sean. Bye-bye.