Cantaloupe, Inc. (CTLP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, thank you all for being here. My name is John Hall. I'm the Vice Chairman of Investment Banking at JPMorgan and a long-time fintech banker. We're pleased to have Sean Feeney, the CEO of Cantaloupe with us today. And Scott Stewart, the CFO, is sitting over here. Raise your hand. As many of you know, Cantaloupe is a software payments and hardware company that provides solutions to the unattended retail space, and we'll talk more about what that means. Sean, I was just saying to you, you've been with the company a little over 2 years and accomplished a heck of a lot in terms of turning around the business, taking costs out, rightsizing, putting the company on a growth path. So congratulations on all the work you and the team have done. It's been a very busy 2 years. Maybe you could start by sharing your vision for the company in the markets that you serve today, just to get people oriented before we get into further questions.

Sure, John, thanks, and thanks to JPMorgan for having us here in Boston, and we appreciate some good weather coming up here from Atlanta. But Cantaloupe, formerly USA Technologies, focuses on what we call the unattended retail space. So think of -- we provide payment devices and services and underlying software to help run those businesses to anywhere where you have a retail experience without a retail clerk. So vending is a very popular market, office coffee services, pantries, car washes, laundromats, electronic vehicle charging stations are all -- amusement -- are all areas that we play in, and we provide point-of-sale, sale devices for credit cards and ultimately other payment devices. We provide an underlying software product that helps drive the efficiency of the business. We sell to the operators of those businesses who then sell on to the consumer, and then we also process the payments for them. And so we have 3 lines of business. We sell hardware, we have subscription revenue and then ultimately, we have the transaction businesses. We operate predominantly in the U.S. today and we have a partner in Australia. We do a little bit of business in Mexico, growing very substantially in Canada and ultimately, will expand to other geographies as we go forward.

Talk a little bit about the value proposition that you offer your clients because it's fairly strong.

Sure. We have a great value proposition, having been in the technology and payment space for 30-plus years with these gray wisdom highlights that John and I share. We have a great value proposition. We do 2 things. One is we help grow revenue. When you change from cash only to having a credit card device, sales go up 20% to 25% in almost all cases, even on low volume areas. And then on the cost side, what our customers tell us is we save them anywhere from 15% to 35% by making them more efficiently. So if you think about it on the software side, what we're really doing is helping them run their operation from the warehouse all the way through the sale of that product and the servicing. And if you think of just-in-time kind of inventory, you want to go to the retail location at the right time. Not too soon, not too late. You don't want stock outs. You want to have enough product, but not going every day. And we have a very aggressive dynamic routing system and a number of things to help with the merchandising so that you're at the right place with the right product at the right time for what the consumer ultimately wants to buy, and then providing new services to them like remote price change. In today's inflationary environment, prices are changing all the time. If you think of today, a driver has to go out, go to an individual retail location, have it be a vending machine, there may be 30 or 40 coils in there and they've got to change the price in every one of those. So not very efficient operation compared to a software module that we have that we released in the last month. where from the headquarters location that can change all the prices on a daily basis and do it all at one time. So our largest customers represent -- tell us they lose anywhere from between $500,000 and $750,000 a year just in having the wrong price. Let alone doing things like surge pricing around some very high-value type of activities. Say Bruce Springsteen is playing the old Boston Garden here for a week. The prices may go up on the unattended retail locations for that event. They may go down for another. And we provide that sort of operation. So we provide services that ultimately grow revenue and help them cut costs on the efficiency side.

So let's talk about the last 2 years and the accomplishments you've all had, because you've done a lot of things with the business. So maybe you could run through a number of them and I might ask you about some if you miss them.

Sure. So as John said, I joined literally 2 years ago and 2 weeks ago. It only seems like a decade. So -- but the company had gotten itself into a little bit of trouble. We literally -- I came in as part of a proxy battle led by Hudson Executive Capital, and we essentially let the entire management team go on our first day because we needed to get back in the good graces of the SEC. There was -- we had an SEC and a DOJ investigation into both the company and several of the individuals that previously led that. So we basically have hired an entire new management team from Chief Revenue Officer to Chief Technology Officer, COO, CAO, CFO, did that. We rebranded the company from USA Technologies to Cantaloupe. We did that primarily because expanding internationally, having USA in your name is not the best way to ultimately do that. We've also focused the business on where we make the most margin, which is the subscription and software part of our business and working on growing that. We've made...

When that was called Cantaloupe, by the way.

It was called Cantaloupe as an acquisition the company did. A very smart acquisition, and we've now moved forward with the integration that should have been done when they did that acquisition. But -- and made a lot of infrastructure investments that ultimately will give us operating leverage as we go forward. We -- when we got there, we had 2 ERP systems. We were pulling reports out of one system, manually entering them into another. We had outside consultants who we're paying millions of dollars just to close our books on a quarterly basis. As a public company, we're closing our books quarterly, not monthly. We're now doing that monthly. We've installed NetSuite. Done all that back office integration and continued to do things like automating various processes, automating order, which will ultimately give us more operating leverage in the future. We've brought out new hardware and new software products. We've reignited the innovation engine, which frankly had stopped for a couple of years in the company under the prior management. We've strengthened the balance sheet with the help of JPMorgan. We did a pipe in February of last year, raised about $50 million. We've got about $70 million, $75 million in cash, and we've done M&A to move us into new markets. We acquired a company called Yoke, which took us into the fast expanding micro market part of convenience industries, and we've begun to work on expanding international. We've got a person in Latin America and Mexico. We've hired people in Europe now and are beginning to internationalize the software product and that will be how we will go into those markets. So -- when you look at it on a day-to-day basis, sometimes it doesn't feel like we're making progress, but we have accomplished an awful lot in the 2 years that we've been...

I'm a little exhausted just thinking about all the things you've done, so congratulations on those things that you've accomplished. Maybe talk a little bit about the financial profile of the business and how it's changed since 2 years ago, and kind of how you see it evolving going forward, just from a growth and profitability standpoint.

Yes. So this year, our growth is 20% to 26%. We are in the last 5 weeks of our year. We'll do between $200 million and $209 million in revenue. We've grown the -- our adjusted EBITDA will be between $8.5 million and $10.5 million, which represents I think 12% on the low end, almost 35% of the high-end growth of that. And it's actually -- the adjusted EBITDA is actually bigger than that because we did have a onetime event that positively impacted our EBITDA last year and the change in state law which allowed us to have about $3 million or $4 million drop more to the bottom line. So we've gone from being a cash burner to being a positive adjusted EBITDA and returning to growth, albeit in a pandemic in which we have probably between 5% and 10% of our business that is predominantly white collar offices that are still really dark, even where you think offices have gone back. They've only gone back, on average, 2 days a week. So we think that there's substantial upside from there. We've seen good growth and there are some tailwinds in the pandemic, but for the most part, they were tailwinds. But we've returned to transactions and transaction volumes being well above what they were pre-pandemic, and our last 3 quarters have been record quarters on our transaction line.

Let me ask you what I think is the most important topic that we're going to discuss today as your question. How is the industry evolving? We talked about this last night, where you've got the traditional merchant acquirer processors kind of maybe moving into world, you guys moving into their world as retail evolves and changes. So maybe you could speak to this, because I think it's not something that people are focused on at the moment.

Yes. I think, John, that's a great question. Because when you look at it in the macro trend, unattended retail is just exploding. There's hardly anywhere you go nowadays where you don't see a kiosk or some sort of unattended payment device, and we are right in the middle of that with over 1 million endpoints already out there and growing those substantially. And while people look at the vending industry, which is a big part of our market, as an old blue-collar industry, which it is, there is so much new innovation that's coming along. We just came from our biggest trade show of the year and to see the number of new vending machines, the traditional coil vending machine is going to go away over the next few years, but the new level of technology, whether that be coolers or our new vending machines is only going to grow. And you're going to see items in there that are not your traditional soft drinks and snacks and chips, which is what a lot of people see in this industry, but you're going to see all sorts of things that started during the PPE. We have -- today, we make custom -- we provide the payment device on custom salad operations, we do it on fresh pizza. If you can think about it being in a vending machine or in an unattended retail spot, we'll see that. Ultimately, what's beginning -- what will happen over the coming years is the point-of-sale businesses and us are ultimately going to collide primarily around the unattended location. So we today have operators who are setting up an empty storefronts in certain cities, micro markets that have a payment device and are serviced by our software and experimenting with those sort of things. And ultimately, I think there's a coming kind of collision of that, if you will, with the traditional point-of-sale retailers and people in our industry.

And how do you think that plays out?

Well, I think having been a private equity guy for a long time, I see all sorts of kind of combinations and potential combinations and things that will ultimately come to bear. So I think they'll be fairly active M&A, and I think there'll be some fairly active innovation in the business, and we're positioned very well. Years ago, I worked at CheckFree where we did online bill payment, and we always used to say we may not be the leaders, we may not in the end, but we're going to be a player in this fast-growing. Because ultimately more and more of retail is going to go where there is not someone there managing the sale. And we're well positioned to play in that market.

Do you think it's plausible that one of the leading firms in the unattended retail space could outmaneuver some of the bigger point-of-sale guys? Or do you think it's inevitable that you guys all get acquired by the big point-of-sale then?

Well, I think you guys on the banking side of the business or in the business of predicting those sort of futures, I think there will be some combinations. I think we're a relatively small player compared to some of those guys, but who knows what happens over the next 5 years? I think that we will do some M&A and we'll see where that ends up.

So let's talk about competition and the competitive landscape. What is the primary basis of competition? And then we'll talk about the players.

I would say traditionally, in the United States, we've had 2 competitors. One was Crane payments, CPI. A company that's a very large company. They've been in all areas of kind of the vending business, from making vending machines to cash counting to cash machines to ultimately credit card devices. And they -- we were the traditional #1 player. They were the traditional number two. A company from Israel, Nayax was the kind of focused on the SMB part of the market and was -- most of their focus was elsewhere in the market. They have now -- since they've gone public in Israel, have come to the U.S. and they're probably our biggest competitor. Crane has announced they're going to split into 2 businesses. They're having some significant supply chain problems in getting devices, and so Nayax and us are going at it pretty heavy. There's a -- 2 events in our industry going on right now. Our business operates over the cellular spectrum, and the 3G to 4G upgrade and the card issuers driving EMV compliance now into the small ticket part of the business has caused a number of upgrade cycles to happen all at once. So there's hundreds of thousands of devices that are up for grabs and we're grabbing our share as is Nayax. And then the new area is in micro markets, and the largest player in that market is a company called 365 Retail Markets. And so we're competing with them with our Yoke product. And so I would say it's Nayax, 365 and ultimately us competing.

And so what's your advantage vis-à-vis those 2, if you have one? Or is there an advantage in certain segments of the market and less so others?

Yes. So I think we have a great advantage in our primary market, which is North America. Nayax, our competitors' primary market is Europe and the Middle East. But we are at scale. We have hundreds of thousands of devices here in the U.S. We sell more devices on a quarterly basis in the U.S. and they sell on a global basis. And we've sold a lot of our devices into that upgrade cycle. So it is somewhat clouded today in that they are adding to kind of a net new base. And so there are new devices that appears to be bigger than ours, which it is, but we're selling tens of thousand devices, upgrading our current customers. And then we have the preeminent software product in the world for the unattended retail space. And while they have a software product, it's more one that they give away at a very low price. And it fits some places where it may be just as good, but I think if you go to anyone in our industry and ask what's the best vendor management system, it is absolutely the Seed platform, which we provide for. And it's a big part of our strategy as we add additional software modules every 12 months to increase that software revenue, very similar to any traditional cloud software company out there do that, NetSuite, Salesforce, who are all adding additional modules and additional features and functions to that product.

It's a good segue to our next -- my next group of questions. So before I do, does anybody in the audience have a question who want to jump in?

Sure. We can hear you.

Asking about the modules. You mentioned something. You said that vending machines may not have coils in [indiscernible]. You talked about coolers and some other different products that are coming to market. And then you talked -- started off the conversation talking about RPC. Does that product translate to whatever the new models would be? Is it easier? Is it harder?

It will translate, but there are roughly 4 million vending machines out there today. There's -- while micro markets are the fastest-growing part of the market, they've got maybe 50,000 of those, 55,000 out there, and coolers are probably under 10,000 today. So the transition will happen over the next several years, and there are vending machines, which are -- the economics of those are very good for the operators. And what happens is even if they deploy a new product like a micro market, they redeploy those vending machines. So the Remote Price Change capability will be an important feature for the foreseeable future, at least the next 5 years. Now it's really heightened, and the inflationary period is really helping us. For example, one of our long-time customers, probably the one customer I had who was not -- said, "I don't see the RPC and I don't see the need for it over the last year, 1.5 years," in December called me and basically said, "Sean, I have to get into the RPC test here for the last few months," and he's already bought the RPC product to put out there because the price changes are just coming so frequently. So -- and what I said about vending machines is the coils may go away but the cooler is just an innovation. So the example I always use, I'm not a big Starbucks coffee guy, I'm a good gas station coffee guy. And so when you go to the gas station early in the morning, you're in line behind the landscaping crews, the painting crews and all the guys who actually work for a living, and if there's -- my example is there's a woman buying 25 lottery tickets with one clerk and there's 15 people in line. And when the boss says, "We've got to go to make it to the job site on time." What happens? They set down all the sandwiches and all the Gatorade on the floor of the convenience store and walk out. That was a cooler boom. They swipe a credit card, they pay for all of that and they walk out, and the throughput in the stores is tremendously greater. So those are the type of things that will be coming. And I know I'm throwing a lot in on your RPC and cooler question. The other thing the operators like about coolers and micro markets is -- you can't charge sales tax in a vending machine. So they have to eat the vending machine. So when you go to a cooler or a micro market, it's an immediate 7%, 8% rise in revenue just on that, and the capabilities and the engagement are there. They also like the fact that many of the vending machines are subsidized by one of the large bottlers. And if you have a cooler, it's not subsidized. So you can put the red Coca-Cola product right next to the blue Pepsi product next to everything right in the cooler. So there's a number of advantages to our customers, and I think ultimately advantages to the consumer.

And then on Yoke. I thought that was a really interesting acquisition you guys made, and low price tag too. [indiscernible] into the POS side of it, 365, my understanding is they have some software of their own, but Yoke is a small footprint way to enter that market. And given there's now 50,000, 55,000 micro markets, it seems like that a lot of the low-hanging fruit of bigger footprints maybe has been worked through, and we're starting to get into where smaller footprints could really make a lot of sense for micro markets, which I feel like would advantage Yoke. Is there truth to that? And then can you kind of talk about that more?

Yes. I think like anyone, when you enter a new market, they focused on the very large customers, and they have a very strong footprint there. And they have a lead in that area pretty substantial. But the SMB part of the market, and we have over 20,000 customers, of which 15,000 probably have less than 500 vending machines. So we have a lot of places where a micro market can go in and a low capital investment product like our Yoke platform fits very well there. We needed to do some work to the product when we acquired it. It was a very small company. We've done that, and we've just launched the 2.0 version and have begun selling that. And we also needed to add the ability to take cash, which is coming out here in June. So we think we're in a good spot and we needed to have an opportunity to that. The other part to remember with the micro markets is our Seed Markets product is the best product for supporting a micro market, and we operate with anybody else's device. So we, today, have customers who are running 365, Avanti, Vendors Exchange, Three Square Market micro markets but using our Seed Markets to ultimately service that. And you are correct, 365 has a product. They're working very hard to either acquire or ultimately build a product that will compete with Seed. But much the way they've got a lead in micro markets on us, we've got a lead and have presence at the very largest customers with our Seed software product. So they bought a company in Australia, probably similar to our Yoke product, where it's a small footprint but some good technology, so we'll see what happens. They're a good company and Joe Hessling and the Providence Equity guys know what they're doing, and ultimately, the market will benefit.

How does Yoke POS Plus compare with their standard product in the U.S.?

I think it compares very well for the customer we're focused on. So the Yoke POS -- point of sale plus is essentially the Yoke platform with the ability to take cash. And even though cash is dying, there -- you still have to have that capability to take cash, especially when you're looking at a warehouse or a small industrial-type place where you may have unbanked individuals who need to pay cash. But from a loyalty program, from the portal, from the ability to pay with your phone, it's very well positioned. And at a price point that works very well for the SMB part of the market.

So let's talk about products. I just going to ask you about the product road map. Let's do that at the end. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the whole Seed software platform, the applications being built out, how that's evolving, and what that means for your market presence.

So a big part of our strategy is to expand the Seed platform in 2 areas. One I talked a little bit about, we want to add additional...

Explain to me what the seed platform is, because if they don't know the...

So the seed platform is essentially the backbone for running an unattended retail operator. So we have a -- we help them in the warehouse. We help them with inventory. We help with ultimately what goes on to the trucks. The best part of the product is our dynamic routing and the ability to rapidly change routes and do that in a most efficient way. So think of when we go into an operator, very often, they will be driving 15 to 25 routes and we will reduce that down to somewhere between 14 and 18 -- or 12 and 18 routes, which drives that savings of 15% to 35% on the efficiency side. And then we also help them by showing them which product should be in the vending machines, how they should be allocated in the vending machine and then how often to go and service that. So we just recently released an updated handheld version for the warehouse which has gotten universally great feedback from the customer base on the ability to do inventory, speed that along, and replace an old Windows device that had been out there for a long time. So not a new revenue driver, but a moat to strengthen people coming into the market and ultimately doing that, then adding additional products on that. We talked a little bit about the Remote Price Change capability. We've done a partnership with HIVERY, a company in Australia who built a merchandising or an AI-driven merchandising module that we've brought to the unattended space, and it's got great feedback so far. We launched it about 4 weeks ago and I think we've sold 5 to 10 customers on that and we're in the process of upgrading that. We'll bring a new data warehouse product to the market in the second half of this calendar year, and then we're looking at kind of what the follow-on are there. So if you think about Seed, we get somewhere between $3 and $4 on average -- $3 and $5 on average, depending on the size of the consumer per device per month. So when you add RPC at somewhere between $1 and $2, HIVERY between $1 and $2, additional modules, what we're ultimately trying to do is get the subscription number at that end point increase 25 to 50 to doubling over the next 3 or 4 years. And we think we can do that.

Fair to say that your future success in software will be a huge driver of value for the company.

Huge driver in value. The hardware part of our business, we strive to be breakeven or slightly profitable. Right now with the 3G to 4G and the competition that's going on in the market and people looking at that as the razor to ultimately sell on to the razor blades, we've been under a little bit of margin pressure there. So let's say we breakeven there. On the transaction side of the business, we recognize that on a gross basis, we've improved the margin from single -- high single digits into the mid-teens in our most recent and continue to look at how we'll drive that. But that's the rule of big numbers and a fairly low margin. And our software business, which we want to grow at a much faster rate than we've been growing it in the past, is traditional 80 to 85 points of gross margin, which really helps. And you can see through the pandemic, when our transactions were way down, you saw our gross margin be driven up by the software business. Transaction is the biggest revenue line, but we believe that we can grow that software line into the mid-teens and ultimately into the 20% range over the next 2 or 3 years.

What's the biggest driver of that growth acceleration?

Well, the key is always signing large customers and getting the big customers that we don't yet have. We signed one last quarter, Buffalo Rock down in North Carolina that services the Southeast, a large Pepsi bottler and we've got some very good pipeline and some large out there. So net new large customers absolutely helps. Expanding the revenue on the million devices that we've got out there today is helpful, and then ultimately taking our software business into other verticals and expanding that beyond that. International, we think, is a place that we can go. We've got very favorable feedback over the last 90 days on what we've shown in England, U.K. The English-speaking part of Europe, that will be the first place that we will ultimately go. And then into additional markets, the Yoke product will take us kind of beyond unattended -- beyond just the vending part of the business into some other unattended spaces as well as things like EV charging and any place you can think of as a credit card or things that will help us drive the growth.

Maybe you can discuss Cantaloupe ONE, which is a new product offering just launched, I think, in March.

Yes. So I talked a little bit about the 3G to 4G upgrade and the EMV upgrade. And what's challenging for our customers is, while it's a new spectrum and it's more security, they kind of view it, "My device was working just fine. I don't understand why I have to upgrade to 3G to 4G and now you're telling me got upgrade to have EMV capability. How do I future-proof my device?" And so we were looking for -- and I kept looking at this going, why isn't this a platform as a service type of business? And so Cantaloupe ONE is essentially the coming together of those 2 things: our customers wanting the future-proof their hardware device and us wanting ultimately to look at the business as a platform as a service and make the decision to buy hardware, software and our services much easier to do, which we've done. The benefit to us is -- so think about it. We take our ePort device and we have 2 or 3 different bundles of various level of software and we've put it together into one monthly price. What that helps us do is we actually sell the hardware as a profit while we rent it to them on a monthly basis over 36 months. But devices last anywhere from 5 to 8 years. And so the device will be paid for in 36 months, and we'll continue to use that for at least another 36 months, which will improve our margin. We also sell it at a price that's better than we sell it when we sell it as one, and we also get the software revenue. And so it will have a positive impact on our subscription line. If it is successful, really successful, it may have a little bit of a negative effect on hardware, but the investors and our shareholders are willing to make that trade-off. And we've been selling it for about 6 weeks and we've sold over 200 customers, and it fits very well in the SMB part of the market. The larger, big operators would prefer to buy and get the depreciation. But if you're running the business on a cash basis, you're much more concerned about capital. And so the monthly fee, albeit higher than if you had bought the device, is a good trade-off for them. And ultimately, it helps us in the margin over the long run. It's a -- it will be a slow, steady build, but we've also sold the first kind of big customer on it, which is good, which is 1,000 devices.

That's great. Let's go some -- go through some of these growth initiatives, which you just nicely went through. Let me ask some follow-up questions. In terms of the subscription revenue and growing them and accelerating the growth, is there more -- what is the comparison between the 1.1 million devices you have out there? How much of that current customer base is not using software? And then how much of the growth would be from virgin new customers that you're signing on?

Yes. So if you look at that 1.1 million devices, some of those are with our QuickConnect product, where we're just doing the credit card transactions, so may not necessarily be a place that the software would fit. But we believe we're about 50% penetrated into our customer base with the software, which translates to about 20% to 25% of the U.S. traditional kind of vending and micro market. So we've got substantial ways to go. We've introduced the Seed Cashless+ product for the SMB portion of the market, and we're selling that quite successfully and accelerating that over the last couple of quarters. Small numbers, so it takes a little while to build, but the beauty of the subscription model is it just keeps adding and compounding.

Yes. No, it's great when you can get it on board. New verticals. We talked about micro markets, which is, I think, a huge focus, obviously, with plus. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the EV charging station market and kind of your position there relative to the competition.

Yes. We have several hundred EV charging stations out there today. There's a tremendous amount of activity and potential partnership discussions going on in which they can leverage our scale and our support of kind of a remote servicing station, if you will, very much along the model of -- I think we have 30,000 to 50,000 air machines and vacuum machines at gas stations. And if you think of an EV charging station, it may sit right next to that on the outlying edges of a convenience store or a gas station. So we've got a model that works very well with a lot of different connections out there with our customer, CSC, and we're working in calling on all of the EV players. And as you can imagine, it's a pretty crowded market. Everybody sees the explosive growth that's going to come in that. And I think we'll see some changes in models as they go along but more and more states seem to be pushing towards having EV stations out there that will have -- will be charged for. So we think it's a good market. We've got a tiny presence in that. And we actually have a presence in 22 different verticals. So from anywhere from massage chairs in an airport to the amusement cranes that sit outside in the Walmart. You think of that as being really low tech, but we make a lot of money on those sitting in the lobby of a Walmart. So it's a good business. We have partners in the laundry business. And one of the things in the pandemic is you've seen really kind of a lot of growth in laundromats and laundry places. We're in car washes. And you think of all the different places. We actually have a contest in all the different things, and I love to see dog washes. We have a car wash where they use our ePort devices, and they've actually put one of our ePorts on the dog wash outside the car wash. So if you can think about it, we have a -- we probably have a payment device on there.

Interesting. International, where will international growth start first? Will it start in the English language-speaking parts of Europe? Or will it be Mexico? Where...

Six months ago, I would have bet probably in Latin America and Mexico. Unattended is kind of really starting to get moving there because the labor market gets tighter and comes up. But we've been very encouraged over the last 90 to 120 days with the beginning work that we've done with the managing director I've hired in Europe. We hired a new head of revenue in January, and I specifically hired someone who had international experience. Jeff Dumbrell has done a great job for the 120 days or so he's been on board. He ran international for several years at VeriFone. He ran the U.S. business for VeriFone, and so he's hired a guy who's worked for him in the U.K., and we've done the kind of the initial verification, now we're working on internationalizing the product to go after that need. So we we're pretty excited about it. I think you'll see some revenue, hopefully in the back -- first half of next calendar year, the back half of our fiscal year for next year.

We've run out of time. I have one other question. Does anybody else want to ask a question before we finish? Go ahead.

So you -- $1 to $2 for HIVERY and -- or HIVERY and RPC. You mentioned 1.1 million machines. Half of that use your Seed platform now. Do those 2 products make sense for all of that half, a portion of that half?

Yes, it's a great question. So our initial push on Remote Price Change in HIVERY is you have to have Seed in order to use it. Because what we believe is that, that will drive some additional Seed platform sales and it has to be our device. While our software works with anybody else's device, the RPC stuff only works with our device. And so we've got a very large customer. I think there may be a press release today or tomorrow talking about that customer, but they're standardizing on our devices just primarily around remote price change. So we think we'll see and see a good amount of that driving it. So initially, think about for RPC, about 250,000, 300,000 are users. The challenge in RPC is operators love to buy vending machines and run them forever. And it's not like it's windows and a couple of versions of iOS. It's thousands of versions. And so that's why we've done a partnership with Vendors Exchange for a board that ultimately normalizes just about any vending machine out there, makes it work with our ePorts. So ultimately, we will expand it to the entire customer base through our ePorts, but right now, we're keeping it to Seed because we think that will drive some conversions from competitor products. So John, thanks. Great questions and thanks for having us here at the conference. And while it was a small audience, they were very engaged. So thank you.

Thank you, Sean, for being with us.