Carborundum Universal Limited (CARBORUNIV.NS) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Carborundum Universal Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kunal Shah from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes, welcome to the 3Q 26 earnings call of Carborundum Universal Limited. From the management side today, we have Mr. Sridharan Rangarajan, the Managing Director; and Mr. G. Chandramouli, the adviser. At this point, I would like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, post which we can take up the Q&A. Thanks, and over to you, sir.

Good morning. I'm Chandramouli. Let us start the proceeding with a disclaimer. During the call, we may make certain statements which reflect our outlook for the future or which could be construed as forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are associated with uncertainties and risks are more fully detailed in our annual report, which may cause the actual results to differ. Hence, these statements must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. Thank you.

Good morning to all of you and happy new year to all of you. A warm welcome to our third quarter earnings call for the financial year FY '26. Thank you for joining us today. So we'll begin this call by providing an overview and then followed up by Q&A. On a stand-alone basis, the stand-alone sales in Q3 FY '26 was INR 769 crores compared to INR 712 crores in Q2 FY '26. This is a growth of 7.9%. Ceramic grew by 11.9% from INR 228 crores in Q2 FY '26 to INR 225 crores in Q3 FY '26. Electro Minerals grew by 7.9% from INR 213 crores in Q2 FY '26 to INR 229 crores in FY -- Q3 FY '26. Abrasives grew by 4.9% from INR 308 crores in Q2 FY '26 to INR 323 crores in Q3 FY '26. Stand-alone sales in Q3 FY '26 was INR 769 crores compared to INR 728 crores in Q3 FY '25. It's a growth of 5.6%. Abrasives grew by 9.8%, Electro Minerals grew by 8.9%. Ceramics dropped by 3.8%. On YTD 9 months basis, stand-alone sales was INR 2,179 crores compared to INR 2,097 crores for the same period last year. This is a growth of 3.9%. Electro Minerals grew by 7.3%, and Ceramics grew by 1.7% and Abrasive grew by 1.3%. At the stand-alone level, PBIT of Q3 FY '26 grew by 32% compared to INR 87 crores in Q2 FY '26. The PBIT for Q3 FY '26 was INR 115 crores compared to INR 110 crores in Q3 FY '25. This is a growth of 5.3%. Stand-alone PBIT margin increased sequentially from 12.2% in Q2 to 15% in Q3. This was compared to Q3 FY '25, is almost flat. At YTD 9 months level, Electro Minerals PBIT was INR [ 369 ] crores compared to INR 344 crores and a growth of 7.1%. PBIT margin increased from 16.4% in FY '25 to 16.9% in FY '26. Standalone profit after tax for Q3 FY '26 was INR 85 crores compared to INR 64 crores in Q2 FY '26. This is an increase of 31% on a sequential basis compared to INR 81 crores in Q3 FY '25. This is an increase of 4.9%. Profit margins in Q3 FY '26 was 6% compared to 2.8% in Q3 '25 and 5.8% in Q2 FY '26. At the 9 months level annual profit after tax was INR 294 crores compared to INR 260 crores in the same period last year. This marks an increase of 12.9%. At the YTD 9 months level PAT margin FY '26 was 13.5% compared to 12.4% in the same period last year. Moving to the consolidated results. On a YTD 9 months basis, consolidated sales was 3,766 crores compared to INR 3,635 crores in the 9 months of FY '25. This marks a 3.6% growth. Ceramic grew by 6.1%, Abrasives grew by 2.4% and Electro Minerals was almost flat. Consolidated sales in Q3 FY '26 was INR 1,273 crores compared to INR 1,241 crores in Q3 FY '25. This marks a growth of 2.5%. Abrasives grew by 8.1%. And Ceramics was almost flat. Electro Minerals dropped by 3.6%. On a sequential basis, consolidated sales in Q3 FY '26 was INR 1,273 crores compared to INR 1,287 crores in Q2 FY '26. This has marked a drop of 1.1%. Ceramic grew by 4.7%. Electro Minerals grew by 0.6%. Abrasives dropped by 2.5%. Coming to the bottom line performance. Consolidated PBIT for Q3 FY '26 was INR 109 crores compared to INR 141 crores in Q3 FY '25. Consolidated PBIT in Q2 FY '26 was INR 111 crores, which is almost flat compared to Q3 FY '26. At the 9 months level, consolidated PBIT was INR 301 crores compared to INR 444 crores in FY '25. Consolidated profit after tax for Q3 FY '26 was INR 76 crores compared to INR 35 crores in the same period last time. The profit after tax of Q3 FY '25 includes an exceptional item related to VAW at the Q3 FY 2016 level. The PAT margin was 6% compared to 2.8% in Q3 FY '25. On a sequential basis, consolidated profit after tax for Q3 FY '26 was INR 76 crores compared to INR 75 crores in Q2 '26. At the YTD 9 months level, consolidated profit after tax was INR 212 crores compared to INR 264 crores in the same period last year. Profit after tax for the first 9 months of FY '25 includes exceptional item related to VAW. At the YTD 9 months level, the PAT margins were 5.6% compared to 7.3% in the same period last year. I'll move now to abrasives. Stand-alone abrasives recorded a sales of INR 323 crores in Q3 FY '26 compared to INR 294 crores in Q3 FY '25. This is a growth of 9.8%. The growth was broad-based, driven by retail, industrial and position. On a sequential basis compared to the sales of INR 308 crores in Q2 FY '26, this is a growth of 4.9%. And on an YTD basis, the FY '26, INR 917 crores is the total sales in FY '26, which is a growth of 1.3% compared to INR 905 crores in the same period last year. Consolidated Abrasives. Q3 FY '26 consolidated sales was INR 569 crores with a growth of 8.1% compared to INR 526 crores in Q3 FY '25. This growth was contributed by stand-alone business, which grew by 9.8%. Compared to Q2 FY '26, consolidates were lower by 2.5% compared to -- moving from INR 584 crores Q2 FY '26 to INR 569 crores in Q3 FY '26. Stand-alone business grew by 4.9%. RHODIUS Abrasives had a small drop, which is in line with the seasonality. Consolidated sales for YTD 9 months in FY '26 was INR 1,660 crores with a growth of 2.4% when compared to INR 1,621 crores in the same period last year. At the YTD level stand-alone Abrasives grew by 1.3%. Now I will move to RHODIUS. In Q3 FY '26, RHODIUS achieved a net sales of EUR [ 14.8 ] million, which is a 3.5% drop over EUR 15.3 million in Q3 FY '25. On a sequential basis, sales declined from 17.4 million to 14.8 million. Normally, Q3 is a lower quarter, 2.5 months quarter because of the Christmas vacations, et cetera. At the 9 months level, FY '26 RHODIUS recorded sales of EUR 45 million compared to EUR 49 million. You might remember that we lost close to 5 million sales in Q1 due to the shifting of warehouses in Q1. Q3 FY '26, the loss after tax was EUR 0.84 million compared to the loss after tax of 0.78 million. On a sequential basis, loss after tax increased from 0.57 to 0.84 million. At 9 months level, FY '26, RHODIUS incurred a loss of -- loss after tax of 3 million. This is after a PPA rate of 2.1 million. The loss of business due to shifting our warehouse in the is a predominant increase in further higher losses. The 9-month loss after tax in FY '20 was 0.89 million. So on a full year basis, we said in the last call that RHODIUS will do same as last year in Q2, Q3 and Q4. So this means an annual sales of 62.6 million. We now expect the full year sales to be about 60 million. We expect the full year loss to be in the range of EUR 4.5 million after write-off of PPA about 2.8 million. AWUKO. At the YTD 9 months level, AWUKO recorded a sales of EUR 7.9 million compared to EUR 7.6 million in the same period last year. This represents a growth of 4.6% for the quarter. AWUKO recorded sales of $2.4 million, which is a 3% growth over sales of $2.3 million in Q3 FY '25. On a sequential basis, sales dropped by 19% from 2.9 million in Q2 FY '26 million to 2.4 million in Q3 FY '26. In Q3 FY '26, AWUKO recorded loss after -- loss before tax of EUR 2.7 million compared to the loss before tax of EUR [ 1.4 ] million in Q3 FY '25 and the loss before tax of EUR 1.5 million in Q2 FY '26. The higher loss is primarily due to no production during this period to optimize the inventory. And hence, ability to recover the fixed set cost was lower. Besides this, there was also a small onetime expenditure that they incurred. At the YTD 9 months level, FY '26, AWUKO incurred a loss before tax of [ 5.1 ] million compared to the loss before tax of 3.7 million same period last year. Now I'll cover the bottom line performance of the Abrasive segment. Consolidated abrasive PBIT was -- in Q3 FY '26 was INR 20 crores with a drop of 28% compared to PBAT of INR 28 crores in Q3 FY '25. This was an account of PBIT drop in AWUKO. On a sequential basis, PBIT of consolidates basis declined from INR 33 crores to INR 20 crores. This drop is, again, mainly on account of AWUKO. At the YTD 9 months level, consolidated PBIT in FY '26 was INR 65 crores compared to PBIT of INR 118 crores for the same period last year. The drop is contributed by RHODIUS, AWUKO and the stand-alone. Electro Minerals. Stand-alone Electro Minerals recorded a sales of INR 229 crores in Q3 FY '26 compared to INR 211 crores in Q3 FY '25. This marks a growth of 8.9%. The growth was driven by export segment, which is a very substantial progress that we have made. On a sequential basis, sales of INR 229 crores in Q3 FY '26 represents a growth of 7.9% compared to sales of INR 213 crores in Q2 FY '26. Sales for the YTD 9 months period was at INR 654 crores, which is a growth of 7.3% compared to the INR 609 crores. Consolidated EMD sales for YTD 9 months FY '26 was INR 1,204 crores with a growth of 0.5% and compared INR 1,119 crores for the same period last year. At the YTD level, standalone Electro Minerals grew by 7.3%. Foskor grew by 16.6%, VAW dropped by 25%. Drop in VAW reflects due to the U.S. sanctions, which was imposed in January 2025. Compared to Q2 FY '26, sales was most flat moving from INR 399 crores to INR 401 crores. Standalone business grew by 7.9%. And I think, there was a decline in Foskor as well as in VAW. Q3 FY '26 sales was at INR 401 crores with a drop of 3.6% compared to INR [ 416 ] crores. Stand-alone business grew by 8.9%, and VAW dropped by 28%. Foskor grew by 6.5%. Now going to VAW at the YTD 9 months level, VAW recorded sales of RUB 4.8 billion compared to RUB 7.6 billion in the same period last year. This represents drop 36% drop over the last year. VAW came under sanction since January 2025. For the quarter, VAW achieved a sales of 1.4 billion, which is a drop of 46% compared to the last year same period at 2.6 billion. On a sequential basis, sales declined from 1.5 billion to 1.4 billion, almost flat. At the YTD 9 months level, VAW recorded profit after tax of 414 million compared to profitable tax of 35 million in the same period last year. We move to the Foskor. At the YTD 9 month level, Foskor recorded a sales of ZAR 336 million compared to ZAR 308 million in the same period last year. This represents a growth of 9% over the last year. Sales volume went up substantially, 28% growth. At the same time, the realization fell by 13% because of the price pressure from Chinese competition. In addition to that, rand appreciated by 6%, very strong appreciation because of the rand appreciation, coupled with the price drop and the volume increase. The net result is sales value increase of 9%. In Q3 FY '26, Foskor achieved the sales of the 101 million, which is a 4.5% decrease over 106 million in Q3 FY '25. Again, volume went up. However, the realization dropped by 13%, volume went up by 22%, rand appreciated by 8%. And so that's the basic reason for the gain impact. On a sequential basis, sales declined from ZAR 114 million in Q2 FY '26 to ZAR 101 million. The volume remained flat, and the sales drop is due to the rand appreciation in the same period. At the 9 months level Foskor recorded loss after tax of 66 million compared to loss after that tax of 22 million in the same period last year. Q3 FY '26, Foskor made a profit after tax of 10 million in Q3 FY '26 became gross after tax of 24 million. This drop in profit is predominantly due to the drop in price and appreciation of land and a sequential basis loss of tax was almost flat. Now, I'll cover the bottom performance of the segment. On a sequential basis, PBIT of consolidated EMD increased from INR 33 crores INR 34 crores in FY -- in Q3 FY '26. This is a 16% increase sequentially. Consolidated Electro Minerals PBIT for Q3 of FY '26 was at INR 35 crores to a drop of 48.7% compared to INR 68 crores in Q3 FY '25, mainly on account of PBIT drop in VAW and Foskor. At the 9 months level consolidated Electro Minerals PBIT was INR 72 crores compared INR 168 crores in the same period last year. At the 9 months level, margins have declined from 14%, [ 66% ] on a YTD basis. I'll move to Ceramics now, consolidated Ceramics. Sales for YTD 9 months in FY '26 was INR 917 crores with a growth of 6.1% and compared to INR 864 crores in the same period last year. At the YTD level stand-alone ceramics grew by 1.7%. Compared to Q2, sales were higher by 4.7%, moving from INR 301 crores to INR 316 crores. In Q3 FY '26, sales was INR 316 crores with a growth of 0.4% compared to Q3 FY '25 at INR 315 crores. Stand-alone Ceramics recorded sales of INR [ 258 ] crores, which is a growth of 11.9% compared to INR 228 crores in Q2 FY '26. In Q3 FY '26, sale of INR 255 crores dropped by 3.8% compared to INR 265 crores in Q3 FY '25. At YTD level, sales was INR 721 crores, which is a growth of 1.7% compared to INR [ 710 ] crores in the same period last year. Now total debt position, there was no debt in stand-alone books. The total consolidated debt was about INR 290 crores compared to INR 210 crores in the same period last year, INR 108 crores in the same period last year. The debt ratio is 0.07 at the consolidated level. Cash and cash equivalents at the consolidated level was a -- consolidated level without VAW was INR [ 385 ] crores. CapEx. During the first 9 months, the CapEx investment is INR 248 crores compared to INR 209 crores same period last year. We said we will spend INR 350 crores for the full year, and we feel that we should be completing that INR 350 crores of CapEx. I'll come to the guidance. During the last call, I said, growth in consolidated sales could be 5.5% to 6.5%. I maintain the same guidance. Consolidated Ceramics, we communicated a sales growth of 16% to 18% in the beginning of the year. We marginally bring this down from 13% to 14%. Abrasives sales in our last call, we communicated to 4% to 5% for the year. I maintain the same. Consolidated EMD, we gave a guidance of 1% to 2% sales growth. I maintain the same. Margins. In the Ceramic segment, we communicated PBIT margin of 23.5% to 37% on a full-year basis. We are likely to be 21% to 22%. EMD in the last call, we said 4.5% to 5.5% is the PBIT margin. We maintain the same details. Abrasives, last time, we said PBIT margin would be 6% to 6.5% on a full year basis. We now revised that to 4% to 4.5%. We said the last time, the overall consolidated PBIT margin could be 8.2% to 8.5%. This could be 7% to 8%. On the CapEx side, we said we will spend INR 350 crores on a full year basis. We spent so far INR 248 crores on a 9-month basis. We maintain the full-year guidance of INR 350 crores of CapEx. I now open up for a Q&A and then we will conclude the call. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Amit Anwani from Prabhudas Lilladher Capital.

So first question for the reduced guidance in Ceramics, and we can see that even stand-alone business is kind of 4% down. So could you explain what went wrong? And within that, is it the exports from Ceramics which has also been impacted and versus the technical and wear ceramics, how the situation in Ceramics since we are expecting some recovery after Q1, Q2, and we are again revising down the guidance for Ceramics?

So I think we are not again revising. This is the first time I'm bringing it down. We feel that I think Ceramics, Q4 will be a strong quarter, first of all, because we feel that Ceramics on a full year basis, the projects are getting delayed, and that is what is causing us this challenge of Q3. But I think if you look at sequentially, they have done well on a stand-alone basis. And we feel that Q4 will be a very strong quarter based on the order backlog that what we have. However, we expect that there could be delays in some of the projects like, for example, while we have an order, the ability to ship depends on the inspection by the customers, and there could be some delays. Hence, we are cautiously bringing this down. We felt that there could be some challenge. Hence, we are bringing it down. So that's what I would think so. It is not anything at this point in time, we feel otherwise.

So what's the kind of exports contribution in Ceramics for first 9 months?

Overall, about -- if you see a blended rate, it could be in the range of around 50% to 55%. And industrial ceramics, it could be as high as 75% because it's a combination of two businesses.

Right. Sir, second question on the recently concluded EU FDA, and we have exposure to Europe. And in fact, when we acquired the subsidiaries, we were talking about synergies and cross-sell. So any reading you have for your businesses from this FDA? And if you could explain more, could it be of benefit to you? Yes.

So I think right now, we -- it's too early at this stage. So I feel overall FDA will be beneficial to us. Right now, we are under the MFN category. So hence, definitely compared to that rate, MFN FDA rate will be definitely lower, at least to the extent of about 4% to 5% lower is what our -- which is definitely increases our competitiveness. Hence, it is more beneficial to us.

Am I audible?

Now you are audible, yes. Again, you are not audible.

I think there is some line issue. Is it better?

Amit, go ahead with your question.

We can take the next question and then let him come on the queue.

Okay. The next question is from the line of Harshit Patel from Equirus Securities.

Firstly, on AWUKO and RHODIUS, while you have outlined your performance so far in the 9 months of FY '26, can you broadly highlight how we should think about revenue growth and margin development for both these companies for the next year, that is FY '27?

I will share the details more in the next call, Harshit, because we will be doing the roll up at that time, we'll be able to share at this time. And I strongly feel that the current challenge of AWUKO, which is like a marginal top line growth is our key concern. And I think we will reflect on that and when we meet in the next call, we'll share this more.

Sure, sir. In terms of the next quarter, which is the fourth quarter, will it be broadly on similar lines as to what we have seen in the third quarter? Or would there be a material improvement sequentially for the January to March quarter?

This is for -- you are talking about AWUKO?

Correct. Both, sir, both AWUKO as well as RHODIUS.

Yes, yes. Okay. So AWUKO will be on the similar trend is what our reading is what, and we feel that the current trend would continue, and it could be better compared to the profitability because of the expenses getting spread over the production process because last quarter, we did not manufacture. So hence, the fixed cost absorption was practically 0. So that was the cause. But going forward, that would be a slight benefit on that. But top line, we are expecting to be on the similar trend. And as far as RHODIUS is concerned, I feel normally Q4 is a better quarter compared to the Q3 because Q3 is a Christmas quarter. So that benefit I expect that it would come in terms of the top line.

Understood, sir. Sir, secondly, on domestic abrasives, China has recently removed the export rebate on abrasives products including grinding wheels from 9% to 0%. This will be in effect from April onwards. Can this translate into a tangible improvement in the domestic market share for us over time?

So this is a positive news as far as the Indian market is concerned and across. I mean, abrasives is one such product, but many products, the export benefit drop would benefit this. So we think that this is a positive information, and it would definitely help us to strengthen our position.

Understood. Sir, lastly, on Foskor Zirconia. This particular business has continued to impact our margins and profit negatively. Even in the first half of FY '26, we have incurred a PBT loss of around INR 25 crores in INR terms. On top of that, there is further loss in the third quarter as well. So what is the outlook on this business? And how do we plan to improve the performance here? I remember a few years ago, we had also planned to divest this particular business. But I think since then, nothing has happened on that front. So if you can provide some outlook on this business, that will be very helpful.

Yes, I think it's a good question. So Foskor does trouble us a lot and definitely impacting us. So right now, what we are doing is they have two products, ZC and Z450. And ZC is having higher losses. So we have closed down that operation, and we are only focusing on Z450. So the Q4 will have only Z450 operation, and we want to see how that performance is. If it is going to improve, that is fine. If not, we need to take a firm call. So this is what our current approach is.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Harshit Patel from Equirus Securities.

Sir, in the domestic Electro Minerals business, what is the mix between domestic revenues and exports within our stand-alone business? Also, is there any material difference in margins between these two?

So yes, the mix is improving more towards the export. That is helping us a lot. I think our aim is to have a 30% mix, that is 30% export mix on a long-term basis, but the current trend shows that even now, we are very close to that.

Understood. Sir, secondly, in our stand-alone Ceramics business, which has barely grew by around 1.5% to 2% in the first 9 months of FY '26. So could you highlight the performance and growth rates of different subsegments, mainly refractories, wear ceramics, industrial ceramics. If you could give us a flavor on which of the segments have grown and which haven't, and based on your assessment, how FY '27 will look like for all these subsegments?

Yes, I think -- so we have two broad segments within that, which is ceramics and refractories. But the way we discussed in the last few calls, the set of businesses we have engineered ceramics, some of the fire refractories, all that growth, we are looking at north of 20%. Our challenge continues to lie in the wear ceramics and also the project-based fire refractory business, bunching of the product and that is happening or that's going to happen in Q4 is one of the reasons that we are looking at a muted 9 months one. So we expect the full year basis, they will be strong. Wear ceramics continues to have this challenge. Largely, we feel that, one, the ceramic business in U.S., particularly in the last 2 quarters, were sluggish. The end customers on many projects have delayed and deferred because of the uncertainty in the tariff, not just because of us, I'm just saying as a project. We are only a small supplier in that, but because they are actually going to face many import costs. So a lot of them have deferred this trying to get clarity in terms of how it is going to happen. So that 2 quarters is causing this challenge. We think -- the information we are getting is that people more and more now start firming up their project and start moving ahead. So that should come back. So this is how I read the ceramic business as a whole. And as we guided ceramic business in the -- we've given a guidance at the consolidated level. But in the ceramic, obviously, India becomes forming a major portion. We expect that overall growth rate, we know that the current rate is 1.7%, but we expect this to be in the range of about 9% to 11% at the full year level.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jonas Bhutta from Birla Mutual Funds.

I hope I'm audible.

Yes, yes. Please go ahead.

So I would appreciate your comments while you said that you'll give out a separate guidance for both the businesses, the AWUKO and RHODIUS probably with the Q4 results. And just like Foskor, sir, do you sort of have a time frame as to when you will keep evaluating these businesses, whether they remain -- are something that are sort of meeting the targets that you had set out at the time of their acquisition as in you bought them for a particular reason? And I know maybe 3 years or 4 years is not a good enough time to sort of evaluate these businesses because we buy it for the long term. But just curious to know as to what are the steps that you are taking to sort of see that whether these fit probably just like you're going to take a call on Foskor. So what is the time line that you've given yourself on this?

Yes. I think, again, a good question. Foskor, as I communicated, probably 1 quarter to 2 quarters, we will take a call. And AWUKO, we think that we should take a firm call in a year's time.

Understood. And just out of curiosity, sir, again, what is the cap -- while we bought it for, I think, EUR 5 million or EUR 6 million, what has been the total loss funding that we've done insofar or the losses that we would have incurred in the last 3, 4 years ever since we acquired them?

Yes, yes. I think we have incurred a loss of close to about EUR 30 million and this is over the last 4 years period.

Sure, sure. My second question, sir, was on Ceramics. About 2 years back, sir, we've seen a phenomenal growth and for the past 4, 5 years up until maybe fiscal '24 and predominantly driven by these new age applications in SOFC, cells, et cetera. The business of the company that was giving us those orders seem to be booming. Is it already reflective in the sales of Ceramics for the past 2 quarters? Or that is something -- that's the upside that's potentially going to come going forward? Because, again, the communication was that the intensity of Ceramics in these products is likely to go up and our wallet shares will sort of tend higher. So I'm just, again, wanting to know whether that's already reflective of the upside in the last 2, 3 quarters?

So I think your pointed observation is well noted. I think on the Ceramics side, the businesses that we are serving to SOFCs and some of the high-end ones, they are growing pretty high. As I said, it's north of 20% is the growth that we are having. And we also have a very sizable, good order book. In fact, we bagged the highest-ever order in the last quarter from them. So we seem to be doing fine there. So challenge, as I explained to you, comes largely from the wear ceramic side, which is what is causing. And probably once the project starts kicking in, in America, I think this should start getting better. And then you will start seeing the overall growth would also start looking better. So two broad reasons. One is that side. The other side is the refractory projects bunching that is happening in Q4. So these are the two broad reasons why we are seeing a muted growth up to 9 months. Still I'm -- as I guided on stand-alone 9% to 11% on a basis ceramic, we will still do that because you will see a strong Q4 on that. And then you will start seeing a better growth in FY '27. And some of the businesses that you are hinting are really supporting our growth there.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Good. I think thank you all for participating. I would like to summarize as follows. I think, of course, you don't have the business plan, but we are tracking to the business plan at 9 months level. And we think that we have worked on all the major efforts in terms of our long-term strategies for Ceramics, Electro Minerals and Abrasives. Capacities are being created and our investment progress is pretty much in line. That's why we are also maintaining the guidance of INR 350 crores. All the programs in terms of technology tie-ups, working with partners in two broad areas are all progressing well. People addition, getting key leaders part of this new and improved programs that we are looking at are all also happening in parallel. So I would say while we focus on the current and future also, we are securing well. Abrasive growth in Q3 is encouraging. We think that this trend should continue. We feel Q4 will be a strong quarter for Ceramics because of the -- based on the projects that they have tied up. Electro Minerals is showing good come back, very good margin recovery that they have shown. Their ROCs are also looking good. So overall stand-alone has done an exceptional job. We think that Q4 could be better in stand-alone. We do have challenges at Foskor Zirconia, AWUKO and I think we would take appropriate actions on this. RHODIUS is doing fine, but I think we need to -- we can get better at it. We will do work on that. So with that background, I thank you for all your patience and time in attending this call. Thank you.

On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.