CELSIA S.A. E.S.P. (CELSIA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Gonzalo Velásquez, Communications Leader at CELSIA, and I'd like to welcome you to our financial results meeting for the third quarter of 2021. Today, we're joined by Ricardo Sierra and Esteban Piedrahita, the Director and Head of Financing of the company. [Operator Instructions] This platform has interpretation service. You will find the icon at the bottom right screen of your computer. At the bottom right corner of your screen, choose the option interpreting, choose your language and then finish. If you don't wish to hear the background speaker, click on mute original audio. We thank you for joining us to this -- in this meeting. And now we'll give the floor to Ricardo Sierra, leader of CELSIA. Good morning, Ricardo.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this, again, to this teleconference of financial results. We're very happy with the results that we've had in this quarter. The financial results that we are presenting are very goal -- are very aligned with the recuperation recovery of the country and all the problems and issues that we have with the pandemic and the massive strikes that we had. We are very efficient with the dynamics of renewable energy and energy distribution. The indicators we are improving in spite of the strong rainfall seasons that we've had in El Bagre and Meta. But all the improvements that we've done in the network, into the technology has helped our clients. We renewed many offices here in Colombia. We renewed the customer service stores. That's how we call them. And we allowed to give a very comprehensive portfolio of products, and we are very -- we're working really hard on efficiency and the emulsification of everything that is electric transportation. Esteban is going to do a summary. He's going to give us an overview of the figures and the financial results. And then we will talk a little bit about all the advancements that we've had. We're going to talk about the projects, about Tesorito with the closure of BLM in Centroamérica. We're reaching really interesting figures, thanks to that decision. And we think that we can also do an overview of all the different situations and other relevant issues, social, environmental and governance issues, which were really interesting. Welcome again to this conference. And Esteban, let's talk a little bit about numbers.

So good morning, everyone. Well, I'm going to just do a quick overview on the business of the detail. You can find it as usual in the report that we sent yesterday. So turning to returns, we have a positive growth with a COP 2.8 billion increasement (sic) [ increment ]. And business is different from energy, absorb this hit that we received in contribution margin. Remember the difference between income and variable costs, it was COP 1 billion and it grows compared to last quarter. Sorry. We're having audio difficulties. The new businesses had an increase of COP 32 billion in Central America. And energy commoditization had a growth of COP 1 billion. So this is linked to our portfolio -- comprehensive service portfolio of services, and it also corresponds to the recovery of the demand compared to last year. The EBITDA had a growth of 23,000 -- of 23%, and it was led by distribution and new businesses. Accumulated, we're close to COP 100 billion to COP 1,000 billion. So the financial cost was COP 82 billion. So we've seen, obviously, they start to present behavior that is different to that, that we have. There is a strong increase in IPC for this quarter, and that boosted that financial costs. It was -- we also saw a reduction in this sector compared to previous year. So some of the parts have required some clarification, and we're not anticipating the call. We haven't given back the provision, as we were mentioned in the previous commission, but we have suspended the upgrading of that provision behind the -- what the state council mentioned. So having said that sentence being done, we're going to register our recovery close to COP 60 billion. Tax to earned show an increase of 75%, which was linked to increased utility and to increased returns. And this year, the tax is almost COP 145 billion, with an increase of 31%. There's an element that we want to highlight, which is our consolidated tax, which includes the deferred and the regular tax. Sometimes we lose sight of this, but this highlights the strategy. So when we see exclusively the regular tax, that effective rate that we're registering in the results is different because the nominal rent at this moment is 31%. That strategy has achieved a reduction of 700 basis points in the income tax in the -- during this quarter, remember that the social investment law was approved, and this will have a big impact on the closure. And we used the decree 130 of 2021. And it's different from the deferred tax we haven't taken to the results to the outcome. And it's -- let's say that this is a figure that increases the tax and as I was telling you, is within the patrimony, and we were not going to show it in the patrimony. The net gain reaches COP 500 billion, and the earn attributed to controllers is COP 60 billion, with an increase of 67%. So accumulated is COP 309 billion, an increase of 12%. The owner of the control is COP 217 billion, which is a 12% increase. In terms of debt, we closed with a consolidated debt of COP 4.52 billion. So compared to 2021, thanks to fluctuations in pesos, that has meant an additional COP 114 billion, but we haven't worked -- we haven't released this debt. So in Colombia, we have a representation. This means more or less COP 900 billion, not the rest. Now regarding Caoba, it has close -- assets close to COP 33 billion, and it grew at 24% compared to last year due to asset acquisition and it also corresponds to the demand and the IPC increase. The net earnings was COP 320 billion, which differs from last year. So these results show that clearly Caoba is working really well. It's achieving its goals, which are acquiring new assets. And we've incorporating -- we've invested a lot in acquiring these assets. We also have been allowed to have a more flexible capital to acquire the assets for this platform. Right now, it's a conversion of 80% through an equity. And finally, compared to this platform, we have a return that is adequate to the assets that have been acquired. Obviously, it's important to highlight that the outcomes were really positive, and we're working hand-in-hand with all the different stakeholders in the different regions that they're operating.

So thank you, Esteban. Thank you very much. Maybe later, we can answer questions about these financial outcomes that we're very happy with, because they're so positive in a really complex and really difficult year, and it's been quite a challenge. But it's important to -- highlighting this daily because EBITDA increase, the consolidated activity increased, the net actions to the controller was really -- showed a really positive increase and the results are very positive. And we see that this is the result of many years of working where we are permanently investing so that we can keep our assets growing, and we're doing a good managing of these assets. We are seeing the commitment of all our stakeholders and partners, and we have to be very thankful to our clients. We're going to talk about the renewable energy bidding, which was done by the government. We know that we were adjudicated in 7 -- we're going to work with this with a plant in Ibagué. I'm really sorry, but the team like to name these projects really -- in a really particular manner. So it's a renewable farm that's going to start operating at the end of -- by the end of 2024, and we hope to generate over 700 employees or jobs during the construction of this plant in Ibagué. So we're really happy to be working in the recovery of this sector. Once we see this renewable energy farm and nonconventional energy sources, we hope to have 25% of our energy comes from wind and solar power. We're working on that way. We look at the multiplicity of the installed capacity that we have and that were being developed and what we're going to start including, we have multiplied it 18x our capacity compared to 2017. So we're really happy and the country is really leading a transformation regarding renewable energy. Also as a commercial company, we'll work of the bidding and were adjudicated energy blocks to give to our clients in El Bagre and Tolima. The thermoelectrical project in Tesorito keeps working -- keeps going on. We're in the process of installing the metallic structure of the buildings, the -- regarding the operation of the motors, the facility, we already have 11 generators in the Central. We are waiting for the -- in maritime transportation, the 11 engines that come from Europe. We started already -- we already started with the gas duct. Remember that this is -- this facility is close to the gas fields and the substation of Tesorito from 500 kilowatts is really going really well. And with the inspection of all this equipment that we received, you have to remember that this is a captured facility. They're the last generation substations. So all the equipment, all the teams are working really hard. Of course, there have been some difficulties. We're not free from any difficulties that might arise, but we're working really hard with a steady pace so that we can deliver on time. The project has had an incredible social impact in these different municipalities close to this facility. We have over 339 men and women hired. So the employment is really good. We're keeping social and environmental standards that are being implemented, which are up to high standards. And talking about Glasgow 25 (sic) [ 26 ] and everything that's going, all the forest topics are gaining strength. And in Tesorito project, I'd like to remind you that compensation -- emission compensation, we're going to do it with a native forest. We're going to renew it, and we hope that this will be more than enough to compensate the emission. And it's a very beautiful solution to solve these issues that the -- environmental emissions issues that CELSIA has. Regarding BLM, we had really good advancement. So the Panama team, who's leading the project has done a wonderful work. October 7, we managed to save the bonds that we had. We paid over $24 million, and we were condoned the negotiation process. We also signed with Banistmo the agreement, and this allows us to close the credit that we had with the bank in a consensual manner. So from the point of view of debt, it's really nice to see that the company is reaching that point and liquidating -- achieving this liquidation process that we're getting in. The ASEP approved the exit from the carbon cycle in which we were in. So we have a clear path -- a clear way to continue with the liquidation and make it a reality and Panama, with this decision, is transforming and is changing and it's going into an energetic metrics that is more renewable, which is really good. During this process, CELSIA also acquired some of the assets that are going to be using in Panama. We had the turbines, the generation turbines, which are a backup thing, and the contracts of power that was -- that were given. So we're working really well with BLM. We think that this plant -- this facility should be ready by the end of next year, so close on taking down and completely organized by the end of next year. Now regarding investments that we've been doing throughout this year, the ones that we've been doing historically now that we're adding up to COP 5.8 trillion here. We've been doing really important investments. We've seen a really interesting effect in improving services. I'll tell you about that later. In El Bagre, we saw COP 517 billion in -- that allows us to improve our service indicators. Now changing to SG to ESG, ASG Board, we have really improved. So on the frame of the climate change, the unions that are being held in Glasgow right now, this really has an impact on our operations and in society as a whole. So thanks to the cooperative work that we've been doing with the Argos Group that has a spectacular agenda around all these ASG. These ESG topics all of our agenda is aimed and is being guided by these goals and these standards. And that has had a change on our operations. So our emission intention has reduced 76% since we started working. So our goal wasn't this ambition, but we only expected a reduction of 25%, but we reached the 70% mark. So this is really motivating. And we think that we're going to be the company that is going to be carbon negative if you could use that expression by next year. So we're working really hard on that. And on the other side -- on the other hand, regarding the priorities that we have in the group and in CELSIA of continuing working with our processes and our policies of gender equality. So here's what we've achieved is we are now known that women are 31% of our total partners. So you might think that this is really low. It's just a 10% increase. But when you look at it, it means that we're hiring a lot more women than men, but we're not negating the opportunities for men. So this means that we are breaking the paradigm. So jobs are typically where for men that were masculinized, as we said here. We're breaking those paradigms, and we're starting to see more women in jobs that were traditionally taken by men. And we can -- we are hoping to improve as we continue working. And within the inner policies of the companies, we figured that this really curious gap, this really strange gap, and it was that the number of hours that we had. You can see that there's a difference because men had more training, more education, and we closed that gap entirely. That means that we're offering the same opportunities of training and education to both genders. And we're working every day. We're working every day, and we're not going to stop. This is not going to stop. The other thing that we would like to mention is this ReverdeC program. We had a goal of planting over 10 million trees right now for 2025, and we have already planted over 7.2 million trees. We do it in different private public lands close to water sources. So it's a big investment, over COP 5 billion, together with extraordinary partnerships like the CVC. And we've recovered over -- we've generated over 1,000 jobs with this program. And we're reaching different communities. So we're always generating jobs. So we're very happy. Additionally, last week, we received wonderful news, which is in [ Amai ]. We were able to have a partnership with USAID, where they're going to recover Paramos, a big area extension of Paramos. It's an investment of COP 3 trillion that the U.S. government has allocated to help to invest in forest renewal and a different environment, is gaining traction. We are receiving new partners every day. And well, the only thing I can say is that we're achieving really beautiful figures with the planting of the trees in the different departments here in Colombia. This is just some of the few things that we would like to mention, so that we can open the dialogue, and we can see what comments or questions you might have, so that we can close this chapter for this quarter. So thank you very much.

Well, Ricardo, thank you very much. So effectively, we have questions. [Operator Instructions] So the first question came from the chat, and it comes from Felipe Rojas. And it says hi, as you've expressed the opportunity of generation in nonrenewables is big. Why not reduce the dividend so that we can have more fuel to invest in projects that can generate more actions rather than pay dividends? Sorry, he clarified. It's not nonrenewables but renewables, he clarifies.

So yes, that's a really good question. If you had the restriction of developing capital for the volumes that we're working with. So Felipe, first, we have some capital restrictions for expansion in wind and solar. That's what we're doing. So far, no. But the platform that we've been developing with Cubico sustainable investments is our partner in this topic in renewable expansion. And the mechanisms that we've developed allows us for the pipeline that we have today from 600 megawatts that we're going to be building by the end of the next quarter of the year. To be honest, we don't have any funding issues. So that's 1 chapter. The hydric chapter will also end in that platform because there's a lot of interest in that mechanism. So Felipe, we don't have those restrictions, and we have something that is very beautiful that's happened in the country, which is that the expansion of solar in small installations in small headquarters, the team has been developing a really creative project to generate returns for the investors with financial entities, and it reduces a lot of the cost of capital for those projects. And this allows us that everything that we had under 8 megas, which is basically the roof news. Yesterday, we had a really interesting news from the Ministry of Housing from Jonathan Malagón, the Minister in which the houses that declare themselves sustainable or green, they will have an additional subsidy and they're known this housing. That means that we have the possibility of increasing 25% of the subsidies that this housing will receive. That means the houses that have LED illumination, solar panels, green cement, different things, different elements that make them sustainable, they will receive a subsidy, and that will generate us a model that we have -- that we know that is very interesting, generates now doing the B2C clients this model. They don't compete the dividends with our investment. But if we reach a point where the growth is too aggressive and we would have our dividends we had, we could take the decisions that you were mentioning previously, okay? So Esteban, the next, what do you think?

No, Ricardo, I would just like to add...

Sorry, you're having audio difficulties.

I'd just like to add that the portfolio of solar panel construction is, that's already started. We have announced the system this year. We have more leverage. So the pilot is really good. It's working really well. So we don't need that commission or those dividends to achieve this dream of having a large renewable portfolio.

Yes, that's right. So thank you, Felipe. Now we have a question from [ Alfonso Onija ] from Dosquebradas. It says Dr. Piedrahita was talking around COP 100 billion in over cost because of the exchange rate. What do you expect to be this figure in the fourth quarter given the new rally that has been announced this week?

So first of all, a big greeting to everyone and a big hi to everyone from Dosquebradas. Yes, we have here a problem for -- to start the video. So we were used to teleconferences. And now if you don't turn on your camera, you are like a little bit off. Okay. So I saw your question, it's really important. They're not over cost. They're an increase in the total indebting capacity. So when we take the debt that we have in that currency and we do the exchange rate, it generates more in debt in pesos, but it's not the debt it's the remaining. So for every COP 10 or COP 100 that the exchange rate goes up, it means that our indebting stock is also going to increase COP 25 million. So this basically is that if we have a really big rally of COP 200, COP 300, that would mean that the remaining would be in the order of COP 300 billion. But it's just a reminder. It's not an over cost.

Thank you, Esteban. Let's see if there are any other questions. For now, we're not seeing anyone in the Q&A or in the chat or anyone raising their hand. Sorry, there's 1 person. Diego Buitrago. Please, Jonathan, can you give access to Diego?

Can you hear me?

Yes, Diego, we can hear you just fine.

So I would like for you to tell us a little bit that market dynamic how it's the state for the expansion of 250 megawatts, taking into consideration that there was a bidding where the objective demand wasn't really achieved. So we're hoping in the next months and years more biddings and those biddings will facilitate this goal of 250 megawatts. And in this scenario, do you see this scenario happening? And well, CELSIA already has those renewable projects going to work. So I would like to know the logistics of the panels. Now that the pandemic is -- has really improved the situation of the pandemic, now that the peaks of the pandemic have really gone down, how that post-pandemic in logistics terms has been going on?

So it's a really good question, Diego, because, to be honest, is going to be really good, because you'll hear from Esteban, who also leads the supply chains of the company. So he's now working with the developing team, but also with the supply team. So he has those roles. So Esteban, it would be really nice if you can tell us about all the issues that we've had in the logistics, which we hope that will improve in next month. It's been really complex, but it would be really nice to share everything. So from my side regarding the bidding and our strategy. Our strategy is a strategy that can benefit from bidding as we've been -- because we've been successful in both biddings -- bids with solar and wind powers. But our strategy doesn't depend on some biddings. We have a strong commercial team that we nourish it every day. We take care of them every day and our business model is B2B. We have a commercial portfolio that is big and broad and robust, and this is just 650 watts that we're providing -- megawatts. So we studied the bids. We see how they can fit into our strategy. And if we see that the opportunity to add value, we do it. But I'd like to remind you that we're resilient regarding biddings. The national government just announced in Glasgow that they're considering a third bid before this presidential term is over. And they really outdone themselves because the nonconventional renewal sources have been done, thanks to all that have -- everyone from the government who has worked really hard with it. And to be honest, you have -- we have to tip our hats to them because they're totally committed to transforming the energetic metrics of the country. And the other thing is that we have -- we can have that scenario of third bid, and we're trying to -- for them to include more technologies, maybe they can include more -- small hydrolytic facilities that are renewable that cannot be abandoned in a country that has such -- that is so rich in hydrological resources. And this might happen, but I'd like to remind you, we -- that's not our strategy. We have the capacity to work, thanks to our commercial team. But let's talk, Esteban, about the logistic challenges that we're facing and how we're overcoming them.

Okay. So before that, I would like to complement your answer, which is if it's part of the 650 megawatts or not. So it's not part of that. So this in fact, was part of the portfolio that came after that goal of 650 megawatts. That means the portfolio is going to be 700 megawatts at least. But in fact, we already started the construction. We've started other small projects that we are anticipating that by the end of this year are going to be starting with the initial orders. So our first 100 megawatts installed by the end of this year, and we will start seeing the project running. And we hope to increase the solar portfolio. So what has happened? So the pandemic is just coming down. It's just coming to its end, but we are now seeing the effects of the pandemic. So this effect, let's say, are being more structural or that's how we are anticipating in the next 4 months. So the big challenges that we have, fundamentally, we've seen them in 3 places. So the first, while we were talking, availability of containers. They are very scarce. Right now, they're being held in the different ports, in maritime transportation is still around 10,000 for a container. We've seen containers coming in at 15,000. We've been able to do frame agreements to reduce those costs in half, thanks to those agreements of the volumes that we've managed with our suppliers that have transferred their costs. So first, through long-term contracts, we're being able to mitigate the impact of the containers, and that also has allowed us to have flow -- having flow of material on a weekly basis. So every week, we have material coming in, that's one. The second is you've seen that there's a big energetical issue or lack of power here. And there has been an impact here, but it's having an impact more especially in the cost of the raw materials that we're bringing from China. And the third one is the perspective of commodities. We've seen that all the different metals have increased metal, steel, iron. So all the raw materials have increased in costs in prices. But it's a big task we have ahead. And in order to meet the different needs that we have on the different terms, 1 advantage of the strategy that we've implemented is that we've established long-term relationships. And we have seen a reduction in the prices, thanks to this long-term commitment. And we've seen some compensation with this because of our relationship based on trust and that it's a long-term relationship. So we have it's -- right now, the issue is how can we start all the machinery so that the machinery can go back again to that productivity level that we had before the pandemic. And now connecting to the talk, here's where we see -- we can generate value, social value because we feel that we can develop providers and suppliers here in Colombia. This -- there's no way to put a price on that. This -- of course, it carries some risk, but we're promoting the development of providers at a local level so that in some of those exercises, not for the total volume, but some part of the volumes that we have, we need that. So we will keep -- that is really helpful in terms of our social responsibility and is part of the strategy that we had.

Maybe if you let me just do a very quick concrete question, which is regarding the investment peak that we're going to see in the next -- in the coming years, more or less around 2023, 2024. They look like years where we're going to see a lot of investment because of the nonconventional projects, the thing of [indiscernible], which are going to occur at those times, we're going to see a natural increase in the power using everything of founding here? Whether it's -- how you see -- what's your perspectives on this? Just how are you anticipating this scenario for this peak investment?

So I'm going to say the answer for Esteban. But one of the things that we're seeing in this transitioning -- so within the electrical assets of transportation is that the interest in anchoring this and financing this we're seeing -- it's really impressive, like special rates. Every time I think the financial team is just addressing people interested in anchoring, not just from the terms of doubt -- but of debt but also from investments. So we're seeing a really beautiful path where we can generate a lot of value. So Esteban, if we can give more detail on the anchoring strategy.

So as Diego, I'm going saying, I'm going to be very concrete with my answer. We were very aware that this peak was coming. That's why we started preparing 2 years ago, 3 years ago. The platforms are a very important part. The first green bond was part of that exercise, sustainable finance, which we haven't really communicated. And we -- hopefully, we can announce them in the last quarter. We've been consolidating all this so that the leveraging levels that we're having, all of these all of whatever we've done is preparing the organization so that we'll have the vehicles, the access, the flexibility so that this peak -- this investment peak, we can use it the best way. So the platforms are going to give us an enormous flexibility, and it takes a big load from the capital. We've worked with banks. So electric vehicles have very good credits from the banks. We're doing the same with C2. What we're doing is just to bringing the appetite of the banks -- so the capacity of releasing a platform like C2 is something else, right? So they're big efforts in a vehicle that is entirely green. So it's nothing other than green. So all those strategies that we've been developing from 2018 when we did our first platform are a big -- an important part of managing those capital needs and being able to use all the tools. So we're very excited to start working on this.

Thank you very much, Esteban. Thank you, Diego, for your question. We have another question from Andrew McCarthy from Credicorp. He says congratulations with the renewable bid. And he asks -- congratulations on the bidding of renewables. And why is only [indiscernible] is going to be ready by the end of 2024? So this date basically comes from the studies that we did, the assessment that we did and that depends on the improves in Tolima. And what we're trying to do our biggest effort to finish this project that corresponds to Tolima section. So we hope that we can advance this, and we hope to have it by the end of 2024, because that's the goal. And it's really important. Where are we going to hear the backing for this?

And to answer Diego's question, also, we have a solar portfolio, where -- how are we going to support this from all the assets that we have all the solar farms that we're going to be building that we're going to be accessing. So we're doing a support of all of our renewable portfolio so that we can have -- we're going to have 650. So this means that no other solar farm is committed to this bid. So we have all this portfolio behind this -- the adjudication of this bid so that we can deliver it on this date.

Okay. Great. There's a comment from [ Alfonso Onija ]. He says thank you very much to everyone from Celsians, this new adjective for the positive management and guarding the investment of the action of the different stakeholders -- the shareholders. Yes, we're every day working to preserve these investments. And there's a question from Felipe Rojas. He's asking, Ricardo, Esteban, Gonzalo, final question. In terms of capital allocation, what are the priorities of the company; M&A, business growth, repurchase of actions? So yes, Felipe, look, we have to be really on the look of opportunities in corporative growth. All that you mentioned and we're constantly assessing and evaluating them. In M&A, we need to have the financial flexibility, so that if we see the opportunity, we can commit to it. So the Board of Directors were always within the context of how can we have that financial flexibility. And nowadays, we're having 3, 3.2x in EBITDA, which allows us for a certain flexibility, but the Board will always on the look and we are -- it's always in our agenda looking for new opportunities in expanding projects. We really like the topic of organic growth while you've seen in nonorganic growth, it's basically just Tolima acquisition. But the rest of the portfolio of projects in solar and wind, in Caoba, in electric mobility and energetic presence in things like interconnectivity, that has been a completely organic development that creates a big difference, have a big impact. When we got M&A in Tolima, that was a direct negotiation with the owner of that asset. And when you start competing in M&A, you know that the margins reduced. And we really like to look for higher rentability. So that's how what we're doing. I don't know, Esteban, if you would like to say something on that?

No. I think that the only thing that I would say is that for that last question, in reshare purchase, I think it's -- that's an exercise that is not very useful for our investors right now, so yes.

Okay. Now we're going to give the floor to Nicolás Erazo Arias. Please Jonathan if you can give them the floor? Nicolás, can you unmute your mic, please?

Okay, right, yeah, can you hear me now?

Yes, we can hear you, Nicolás. How are you?

Yes. We're from Davivienda. Just a quick question from my side. Esteban already gave us a broad context of the different phenomena that are increasing the prices of energy not at a global level, but also what we saw in the last bid of nonconventional renewable sources. And we're seeing also inflationary phenomenon that is going to have an impact. But are -- we also taking into consideration catalysts such as [indiscernible] and the tax benefits are going to be held. So my question is, in the next bid for renewables which could be the catalyzers that are kept understanding that today, we have a context like the one that Esteban explained, but there's a bigger outlet on the side of different stakeholders that can participate in this type of bids? How are you seeing that landscape? And if you think that there is any catalysts that will be sustained?

So it's a good question. Look, Nicolás, I would tell you that from my part, if you look at the situations of each bid, they are framing different market context. We were competitive. So in spite that there are global players just competing against the [ NL ] who is here and they have like this mega player in this field or EDP renewables, there are competitors that are really -- that it makes us really happy to know that we got a bid the first and the second. If you look at the prices of adjudication of the second bid, that price that we placed, we incorporated the vulnerability of the markets that we have. So all this supply chains assessment were really well placed. So each bid is going to have that mechanism that we're going to have that situation. Our aspiration is that the next bid, if it's going to happen before the end of this presidential term is not just going to have longer dates, but look what the government was looking for was economic reactivation. And we're seeing something really beautiful here in the country. And it's -- the priority of them was which project are we going to promote with a bidding that can generate employment. If the next bid comes, they're going to offer like, yes, coming to projects in 2025, 2026 or generate projects for 2026, 2025. And that opens a range of projects that might come in to this frame and the supply chains, obviously, are going to change. They're going to transform. And we also have wind projects, and they're going to have a learning curve, really well developed. And we're going to face a more stable situation, and we're going to know more how the operation is going to work. So I think it's going to be very interesting. And hopefully, it will open the -- it will give way to other types of projects like small hydroelectrical substations. So I think that each bid brings something new, right? Right, Esteban?

Yes. So complementing what Ricardo is saying, we have talked about -- I see 3 big catalysts. The first in this bid, we saw some of that, but there were still a lot around that is -- but as we see more stable conditions, and everyone knows more about it, we're going to have better and longer dates for the projects. So in a certain way, this helps. So from the CELSIA team, we generate all this dialogue and that gives viability to the different projects and make them a reality. So we're still here. We're still learning, right? And we're still finishing because we're putting some guarantees and warranties. And once we go into the day-to-day, as Ricardo was mentioning, from the social point of view, I see it from the electrical point of view. It means that the Guajira operation that -- it will change the game. That will -- we'll put more analysis in that area because nowadays, the system is allocated right now, but we have to see how it develops. And the third, connecting to what Ricardo was saying, which is renewable and nonrenewable, is a point of view of the demand. The demand has been more passive. So for the next bid, we hope to see it more active. So that's going to be really interesting.

Now Jorge Vargas from BTG Pactual. They were very, very shy at the beginning, but now people are just going for it. Okay. So Jorge says, are you planning on going to energy storage at a big scale, taking into consideration that we saw the first bid this year? And can this be within the pipeline of nonconventional renewables?

Yes, we were second place in that bid. We're really close. So from 10 different companies, we were second. We had a lot of faith in that project. We really studied and we have a team that has been really studying storage projects. We've been studying these technologies. We have our laboratory. We've been doing experiments with different types of batteries with different types of clients, doing different tests. As you know, right now, we're not developing technology, but we need to have the capacity to acquire the technology and adapt it really quick to the market conditions that come up in Colombia and the other regions where we operate. So just so you know, we were second place. We were right at the door. We almost rang the bell. So the interest is total. I think that the government has seen -- has found a dynamic in large-scale storage that will allow to make the networks and the grids more efficient. And that means that I think that we're going to see some more operations or more bidding for energy storage in which we will participate without a doubt. And we're also assessing and starting different technologies, just like hydrogen and storage become a really interesting expansion bridge for new technologies, for new users and to accelerate the -- not the nonconventionals in the market. We've been testing things. We've been studying, and we're really confident that we can bring this technology to Colombia that's being used in other parts of the world. In fact, Esteban, there's an additional comment is that we're designing of this farm with the possibility of incorporating storage at a medium term when it reaches the cost and prices that we need for them to be viable. So our engineering team is taking into consideration this.

Okay. There is a comment from Felipe Rojas to a previous answer that was given. He's really happy to see this interest in the organic growth. And from Felipe Rojas, are we thinking in investing for other countries and with other operators -- network operators?

So yes, it's really -- yes, in the measure that we see that there are opportunities, we're going to study becoming a network operators or studying these different network operators. And we're seeing maybe a nonorganic growth in that market. So yes, hopefully -- sorry, organic, organic.

Yes, Ricardo, no problem. So we have now a comment here. It's very have -- we're very glad to see NeoVolta with their super batteries, I don't know if there are any additional comments or any additional questions. So it looks like we have no further questions. So Ricardo, Esteban, any closing comments, any closing words?

Well, now just thank you, everyone, for your participation. Let me just tell you that the team is working really hard to have a good end of the year, to close this year, to keep this trend going up. And thank you to everyone who participated and to all the Celsians and to our clients that have made this possible. So thank you very much for joining us.

Well, thank you for your participation, and we hope to see you in the next meeting. Thank you very much. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]