CeriBell, Inc. (CBLL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. I'm Robbie Marcus, the Med Tech Analyst at JPMorgan. Very happy to introduce our next company, CeriBell. We'll have Jane Chao, the CEO, come up for a presentation followed by some Q&A. Jane?

Thank you, Robbie. Good morning, everyone. I'm very excited to share with you the overview of CeriBell and our 2025 accomplishment and 2026 plan. So at the highest level, CeriBell has developed a platform for neuromonitoring. It has the hardware that makes EEG or brainwave acquisition really easy and fast. So nurses can set up in a few minutes instead of waiting for specialized EEG technician that's often hours and days. It also have the AI-powered algorithm called Clarity detecting multiple different neurological disorders. Till today, our commercial effort has been 100% focused on seizure detection in Acute Care, and that is ICU and ED largely. And that in the U.S. alone translate into about more than $2 billion market opportunity. And this past year, we are guiding $87 million to $89 million, 34% year-over-year growth at 88% gross margin. 2025, we also made significant progress in expanding our market. So the TAM grow from $2 billion to $3.5 billion, I'll walk you through, largely driven by expanding seizure to Pediatric and Neonate population as well as gaining FDA clearance on the first and only Delirium Detection. Now I will focus on Seizure Detection in the Acute Care setting for the first half of this presentation. Seizures are very common in the ICU. 1/3 of neurological patients have seizure. And it's often post-stroke, post-traumatic brain injury, post neurosurgery. It also goes beyond neuro patient, post cardiac arrest or post sepsis with altered mental status, somewhere between 10% to 30% of these patients would have seizure. And the seizures in ICU are very different than seizures in the epilepsy patients, which is often we think about seizures in the epilepsy context. They are quiet in the ICU, the seizure and they are more aggressive. What do I mean by quite seizure? 92% of the seizures in ICU are nonconvulsive, meaning patient doesn't -- patients do not have obvious symptoms. So you have to have an EEG to diagnose the seizure. And also, they are aggressive. Patient can seize from hours to days. And here, you can see on the left chart, when patients seize day 10, 20 hours, the mortality rate can go high as high as 33% and goes even higher if patients seize longer. The gray bar is the morbidity. That's often permanent secondary brain injury. So even when patients survive, you can see a very high portion, more than 50% of patients would acquire that. You might wonder which modern ICU would allow your patient seize for 10 to 20 hours. Unfortunately, that's very, very common before CeriBell, and I walk you through that. So this is why our physicians also say time is brain, not just for stroke, but also for seizure management in the acute care setting. Another parallel is the good news is they are easy to manage if you knew patients have seizure. The treatment is easily available. Nurses can treat patients if they knew. And if you treat the patient early, so on the right side, within the first 30 minutes of seizure onset, 80% of the patients will respond and often the outcome would be very optimized. If you just delay that treatment by 1 or 2 hours, half of the patients stop responding to the medication. So early treatment, which is often driven by early detection, early EEG is one of the most important factor to manage seizure in ICU. And guidelines already show that requiring EEG arrive on the bed side within an hour for post cardiac arrest patient, post stroke. Before CeriBell, almost not a single hospital in the U.S. or globally can be properly compliant to these guidelines. And the reason is that the standard of care is the conventional EEG, which has been around for more than 100 years. It was designed for epilepsy diagnosis for the outpatient setting, while patient can wait for weeks or months. It's not designed for acute care setting that every hour counts. It has intrinsic bottlenecks. First, on the hardware front, you have to have EEG technician to set up. And most hospitals often have just a cap of EEG technician, and it's Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, the technician on site. So if the patient arrived on Friday afternoon, that's pretty much a guaranteed 2 days delay. Even when you wait for hours and days technician arrive, it still take them 30 to 40 minutes to set up. And on the interpretation side, EEG recording doesn't help anyone. You have to know the result to change patient management. And the bed side physician usually do not know how to read the EEG. You require very specialized neurologists, neurophysiologists or epileptologists. Again, hospitals have very limited access to them. So that leads to a further delay often hours. And at last, no physicians can actually continuously monitor EEG because it takes 10, 20 hours. You simply don't have that human capacity and resource to do that. It's important to monitor EEG because seizures are dynamic. It can come and go. I'll show you more example later. So instead of being compliant to the guideline, the reality of getting EEG always takes hours and often take days and continuous reviewing and monitoring of EEG is very, very rare. And this is not what patients need and this is what we change. So CeriBell with the hardware can allow the bed side get EEG within just 5 minutes. Nurses can set up or anybody on the bed side after very short training. And Clarity, our algorithm would kick in and detect seizure almost right away and continuously monitor the EEG every 10 seconds, never get tired. So how do we do that? This is the hardware you see that's on the left, the disposable head band and that's connected to the recorder that's roughly the phone size and the recorder will record and also display proper information and stream the data through CeriBell portal. And that's where neurologists or other physician can log in and read EEG. So this already provide majority of the functionality of the conventional EEG. Now we have the fourth component that the conventional EEG does not have. That's our algorithm, Clarity. So let's look into how does Clarity work. Clarity monitor EEG every 10 seconds and reports the seizure detection result, both on the portal front to help neurologists to read even more efficiently as well as on the bed side to help the ICE intensivists and ED physicians to manage the patient more effectively. So on the left side, this very complicated curve you see our raw tracing of EEG data. It probably helps you appreciate why it takes a very specialized neurologist to read. It's a very complex data. Also, it's very time consuming to read. So this 1 page is only 15 seconds of EEG and EEG can last 12 hours, 24 hours or even days. That means neurologists have to go through thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of pages to read. At the bottom of this chart, that's where Clarity helps. So you see this curve. The X-axis is actually the entire recording of the EEG. I explained what the Y-axis is. But even without knowing it, your intuition is to click the peak. And you're absolutely right, that's where seizure happens. So it guides neurologists to know when did seizure happen and when is patient seizure free. So the Y-axis is seizure burden. It's recommended by American Neurophysiology Society. It's defined as the percentage of time patients spend in seizure during the past 5 minutes. So if 100%, that means 5-minute seizure, that's clinically called Status Epilepticus, it's considered absolutely a neuro emergency. And that's the main condition physicians monitor on the bed side and manage on the bed side. If it's 0%, that means patient has been seizure-free for 5 minutes. Now when patients pass 90% and getting close to Status Epilepticus, the bed side recorder will send alert. So this enables the bed side physician know immediately when patients start to seize continuously. And it also shows the seizure burden curve, and this allows bed side physician to see how patients respond to the medication. That's a lot of information. So let me walk you through one real patient case. You can see how the different components in action. First thing, at the bottom left chart, it's 1 a.m. This is actually a community hospital at the heart of San Francisco, not far from here, right? 1 a.m., even in the large city, pretty well-funded hospital, you cannot get the EEG before CeriBell. In this case, the nurse noticed something abnormal, they set up EEG right away. And again, even if you could get the EEG before CeriBell, it's very unlikely you'll get the neurologist to read for you right away. It's almost for sure a few hours delay. But in this case, within 10 minutes, the device start alerting the bed side. Patients seizing Status Epilepticus or continuous seizure is a medical emergency. And the little pink needle you see here is the real bed side annotation after physician ordered the treatment within minutes. And if you recall, patients do not always respond to the first-line medication. So in this case, patient did not respond. And in about an hour, the device went back alerting and say, hey, your patient is still seizing non-stop. And you can see the needle came back again and they escalate the treatment, and you can see the curve start dropping. This is when the bed side physician know, "Okay, I'm on the right path" And patients stop seizing, right? And again, without CeriBell, even you get a neurologist read for you right away, it's very unlikely that neurologist will stay up at 2:00 a.m. and just to watch it. And this patient would be under treatment, but still seize out the entire night. I also mentioned continuous monitoring is critical for this population. And here's the example. Patient became seizure-free at 3:00 a.m., but at 4:30, patient returned to continuous seizure. And with CeriBell, you're able to react very quickly. I asked which modern ICU would leave a patient seize for 10, 20 hours. This patient is not an outlier at all. So this is the powerful impact we bring to the patient. And it's not just anecdotal. We have published close to 50 publications, 100% -- 100 abstracts. One largest study came out last year is the SAFER study. It's a retrospective of about 1,000 patients. And first thing we showed -- we actually did the study at Yale University of New Mexico, Mass General. There are top teaching centers and probably have the best conventional EEG capability in the country. Even with that, you see conventional EEG arrived on the bedside 19 hours later. That's in the top teaching center. You can only guess when you get outside the top teaching center. These are the hospitals with EEG technician on site doing after hours. We also show that CeriBell patient stayed in the ICU 4.1 days shorter. When you think about it, that's a very significant reduction of length of stay and also with much better outcome. We looked at the percentage of patients have severe disability when at the discharge. Conventional cohort, 76%, CeriBell 58%, that's 18 percentage point reduction. Roughly, that means 1 out of 5 patients can go home instead of nursing centers, when you think about the impact to that patient and the family. Now how do we translate this clinical impact to a sustainable business model? Our business model have 2 main largely reoccurring revenue stream. The first 25% is the subscription fee, and that's the monthly fee hospital pay us to have access to the recorders, our Clarity as well as the portal. The other 75% is the disposable head band and that single patient use. So with this model, this is the quarterly revenue you can see during the past few years. You see very strong and steady growth. And one thing you notice is every single quarter, is growing compared to the previous quarter. And as a matter of fact, this is true throughout our entire commercial history. We have not a single quarter that's lower than the previous quarter revenue. And part of this is driven by the nature of the reoccurring revenue, the business model I just walked you through. Part of it is driven by how sticky the device is. Often when physicians use it, this become a habit and become how they practice. So we're very proud of what we have accomplished already commercially, and we're really just scratching the surface. We believe that we are only 3% penetrated in the Seizure Acute Care market in the U.S. And how do we get there? Very simple math. If you look at the number of hospitals we are in, that's about 600-plus out of 6,000 hospitals, about 10% penetration. Within the 600-plus hospitals we are in, we are only serving about 30% of the patients in these hospitals. We simply looked at our top 10% customers, they use 3x more than our average customers after calibrating the hospital size. So 10 times 30%, that's 3%. Moving forward, we'll continue to drive both in account acquisition as well as driving utilization of existing accounts. On the account acquisition front, for 2026, we have multiple catalysts. So we already know the account acquisition strategy well. So we'll continue executing what we know have done successfully in the past 7, 8 years. We also significantly expanded our sales force in 2025. We see the new members start to be productive in 2026. In '25, we also gained FedRAMP High cybersecurity certification, and that gave us access to about 160 VA hospitals. We successfully completed the pilot with VA last year and won the first significant cohort of VA hospitals. So we will continue that drive that momentum and drive the expansion to VA in 2026. And VA is a great example of how top-down engagement with hospital system can expedite the account acquisition process. So we are also building out our health care system infrastructure and our playbook. On the driving utilization in existing accounts. And the first one is departmental expansion. Majority of our customers were still not in every single ICU, ER, step-down units and the floor. So we'll continue to drive to additional departments. Even for the departments we're in, very likely, we have not trained all the physicians and providers. So we'll continue to drive that. And even for the physicians that's using CeriBell, they might not be aware of all the new guidelines in different populations like post-stroke, post cardiac arrest. So we'll partner with the hospital to integrate CeriBell into the patient-specific protocols. We didn't just drive the penetration of the existing market. We also significantly expanded the seizure market in 2025. We gained FDA clearance both on the Neonate for Clarity, and that includes the preterm as well as the pediatric age 1 and older. And the Neonate also cover from preterm all the way to age 1. So this actually makes CeriBell cover the entire age starting from preterm. This unlocks incremental $400 million TAM. That's about 20% and TAM expansion and also access to the 280 children's hospital, which we had limited access to before. And we are very happy with the limited commercial pilot we run last year and plan the full launch in 2026. Often, we think about Pediatric and Neonate product, you think about maybe just shrinking the size. But it's very complicated here because we are talking about EEG Seizure Detection. And the brain wave of [ pre-ne ] and pediatric population are much more complex due to the rapid growth of the population's neurological state and the intrinsic complexity of it. So we are actually the first and only the algorithm FDA cleared for [ pre-ne ] as well as young population as young as 1 year old. So I want to talk a little bit more about Neonate. A lot of challenges we see in the adult front, lack of EEG, 24/7 access EEG, neurologists read translate to this market. However, in this market, the challenges are even bigger and what's at stake is even higher. For adult population, the physician can sometimes observe the patient and establish their neurological or movement baseline and use that baseline to judge maybe this patient at higher risk of seizure or lower risk. To establish a baseline of movement and cognitive level for Neonate, it is very challenging for obvious reasons. So here, we show that not only 90% of seizure having the NICU are nonconvulsive, similar to adult, 70% of the time when physicians observe the patient and thinking patients have seizure and physicians are wrong, 73% of the time. Therefore, the guidelines recommendation is don't think about observing the patient, you need the EEG to monitor this patient regardless of what you think based on the observation. And guideline also listed very clear indications on the right, you can see that the -- all these patients have a pretty significant prevalence of seizure. If you're walking into a NICU in your neighborhood, very likely, many of these patients are not being monitored on EEG because of EEG resource. Even when guideline made the recommendation, it recognized we understand you might not have enough EEG resource. But really, this is the right thing to do for the patient. So -- but when you don't monitor this patient, what's at stake is so high. These patients obviously are just starting their life. They have their entire lifetime ahead of them. So look at the right chart, the Y-axis is the language score. 100 means average, so kind of similar to IQ. 85 is where the development delay threshold is. So the difference for the patient between 100 and 85 is drastic. It's the difference between you can go to your neighborhood school have a normal life, to go to a specialty need school or probably countess support you would need and think about the toll for the family. How much seizure caused the difference between 100 to 85? 1 hour. 1 hour, if patients spend in seizure, that would completely change the trajectory of this patient. So how much does early EEG help? Study showed that if you delay treatment by 1 hour, you would double the time patients spend in seizure. So if you reverse that, every hour, you can get EEG faster, you can get treatment faster. You are going to cut the time patients spend in seizure by half. And this is what that stake, and this is what we want to change. I recently visited medical -- a NICU and the medical director said a couple of things. I think this really reflects how the neonatologists are thinking about this. First thing she said,"Jane, seizure is different than in the NICU compared to adult ICU. Adult ICU, you have quite a few different neurological abnormality to manage. You have stroke, you have TBI. In our population, seizure is the #1 neuro complication we manage. So it gets all the attention." And the second thing she said is, "It's not just about the hearts and the lungs anymore. I want my patients to be able to go to college if they want to. And that's what we are working on." So in 2026, on the account acquisition front, we'll expand to this additional children's hospital. To drive utilization, we'll expand to hundreds of NICU and PICU in the existing accounts and also drive the Pediatric ER population. We just spent the past about 20 minutes talked about Seizure Management in the Acute Care setting, and that is our first growth horizon. We look at our future in 3 growth horizons. The second growth horizon, we still focus on Acute Care. But we use EEG and AI expand beyond seizure, delirium, stroke and other indications. The goal is to make EEG a new vital sign. Just if patients have chest pain, you put the EKG on, if patients have altered mental status, you put a CeriBell on. The third horizon would move beyond acute care, and that could go to outpatient clinics. And it also moved beyond seizure, potentially using EEG as a biomarker for many neurological psychiatric disorder, detection of dementia, management of depression, ADHD, you name it. For the rest of this talk, I'm going to focus on the second horizon, and that is make EEG a new vital sign. Why does it matter? So one thing you would know you are in the ICU compared to the floor is you have more screens, you have more beeping because the patients is so [ complete ] in such a critical state. But we don't monitor the brain even in the best ICUs because we don't have the tool. So here's an example. Let's say, if you're a surgeon, you performed a major cardiac surgery and if the patient didn't wake up in time or patients still have altered mental status, you have to run your algorithm. Wait, patients have probably 0.5%, 1% chance having a stroke. Is this stroke? Or patient probably have 10% chance having a nonconvulsive seizure, is this seizure? Or patient is likely to have a delirium 30%, 40%, depends on their age, it can be 70% if they're elderly, is this delirium? The manifestation looks similar, patients altered, and you don't really have a tool to help you to differentiate and continuous monitor. CeriBell is beautifully positioned to solve this problem. First of all, you have to solve access. Before CeriBell, you can't even get the EEG for seizure, so forget about other indications. And second, to use AI, as you know, you need a large quality data set. And CeriBell has probably one of the biggest EEG database for acute care setting and it's very well labeled. And last, you need to have very sophisticated in-house AI capacity, and we started our data science team 8 years ago. So with all that, 2025 has been an absolutely milestone year for us to achieve this vision. We gained FDA clearance on Delirium Detection. This is, again, the first and only Delirium Detection ever cleared by FDA. We also submitted the NTAP new technology add-on payment application because we -- based on the existing breakthrough designation, we already have. And this unlocked at least a $1 billion opportunity in the ICU. We also received a breakthrough designation of large vessel monitoring for the inpatient setting. So I want to talk a little bit about Delirium. Physicians often call Delirium acute brain failure. I find that term more prescriptive. Just like many organ failures, physicians manage in the ICU, kidney failure, liver failure. It's very common. It's the number -- most common neuro complication in ICU. It impacts 3-plus million patients, and 30% ICU patients have it, 80% if they're on the ventilator or much higher if they're elderly patients. And it have strong evidence associated with very poor outcome. One day in ICU with Delirium means 10% increase of mortality risk and 60% increase of developing dementia after surviving ICU. The current standard of care is called CAM ICU. It's a nursing protocol behavior-based and it's subjective depending on the nursing training at pretty significant burden to the nurses as well. And the results are binary. So your patient is delirium or not or it's also not continuous. The best centers, you get the result twice a day. And delirium treatment or management has very clear path is laid out in the guideline. But the challenge there is delirium evolve, have wax and wing over hours and days. Then you don't have objective quantitative trend, continuous monitoring, it's very hard for doctor to know whether or not they are on the right path and how patients are responding to the therapy and the path they are putting patients on. So this is where we believe that our solution that's objective continuous can support physicians to manage this very complicated disease state. Another thing that's important to know is seizure and delirium are not independent. They are highly intertwined. As I mentioned earlier, they have similar presentation, but the treatment paths are completely different. It's almost ironic. The first-line medication of antiseizure is benzo, and that's the #1 Delirium genic agent. So if your patient have seizure, you have to treat patients with very large dose of benzo very quickly. If your patient have delirium, you want to minimize or eliminate patients' exposure to benzo. So it's really important for you to know patients altered, but is it delirium or seizure. And to make this more complicated, 48% of seizure patients later experience delirium and 42% of delirious patients, they have seizure or other seizure-like abnormalities. So with that, in 2026, we will conduct and start our market development as well as commercial pilot that's very consistent with our overall commercial plan. We are planning a full launch of Delirium in Q4 2026 or early 2027. On the LVO stroke front, we'll continue the clinical product and regulatory advancement. We are also continue developing our second-gen hardware, add additional features and other features to support additional indication. So in summary, we have been laser-focused on driving the penetration of seizure management in acute care in the U.S. We have very strong catalysts laid out in the next multiple years. In 2026, we'll continue to expand to VA and start to see the impact of our recent expanded sales team and also leverage the launch of Pediatric and Neonate accessing to children's hospital, potentially expanding to NICU as well as Pediatric ER and that start to have a $2.5 billion TAM in 2026. In 2027, as we think about launching Delirium and that further expand the TAM to $3.5 billion. As we make further progress on stroke and other algorithms and product development we have in the pipeline, we'll continue not only driving the penetration, but also expand our market. What we do is not easy. We actually have a record year. We accomplished all that by many first and only. So in 2025 alone, we became the first and only medical device company ever received FedRAMP High certification. We're the first and only FDA-cleared Seizure Detection algorithm covering Preterm. And we are also the first and only FDA-cleared Seizure Detection algorithm covering age 1 and above, which makes us the first and only seizure detection algorithm covered the entire age. It's also the first and only Delirium Detection algorithm cleared by FDA and first and only large vessel monitoring algorithm. So I'm incredibly proud of the CeriBell team, and we can accomplish all this is because CeriBell employees' absolute commitment to our mission and to excellence. I'm deeply grateful to our customers and our investors. Our foundation has never been stronger. So I'm thrilled to deliver more impact to the patients and translate those patients to the values for the shareholders. Thank you.

Well, great. Maybe we could kick it off. You had a couple of tidbits in there about 2026 around the Delirium launch timing. We'll get the full 2025 results and guidance on the fourth quarter call. But anything you can -- headwinds or tailwinds or high-level comments you could talk to about the momentum and new product launches in 2026?

Yes, absolutely. For 2026, the core adult seizure market, we have multiple tailwinds. I mentioned quite probably all of them already, but it's good to summarize them all. On the account acquisition front, we're going to see the impact of the sales team we expanded in '25. We are also going to continue to drive the impact from VA as well as going into children's hospital. And on utilization front, it will be new opportunity with NICU and Pediatric ER as well as some proven initiatives we proved out in '25, including departmental expansion and protocolization. Delirium probably will be more impacting '27 and beyond. In terms of headwind, I would think this is the first year that we are not just executing in our core market. We start to balance continued execution in the core market, introducing new growth initiatives already and launching new products. I think as an organization, as we scale very rapidly to find that balance to not lose track of core execution while we are launching new products, it's going to be a challenge and opportunity.

So as we think about Delirium coming online, I imagine pediatric goes hand-in-hand with adult. There's probably not much extra work you have to do there, I imagine. As you think about delirium and the launch starting in fourth quarter, first quarter in '27, what are some of the things investors should be considering? How will you go about launching this? Do you need extra sales force? Is there overlap with seizure? Just give us some of the thoughts there.

Yes. I mean we talked about this before, and this is really we start to see the impact. Delirium and Pediatric, it's the similar patient population, right? It's a very similar call point. We're still calling the neurologists now Pediatric Neurologists and Delirium is still the same intensivist and same ER physicians. So we largely expect to leverage our existing sales force. Yes, it might be some incremental as we launch Delirium, where -- that's why we are doing the commercial pilot. So the 2026 commercial pilot on Delirium, we're going to really focus on partially getting the feedback in the real world, how the algorithm can deliver patient impact, what's the best workflow to integrate it with the existing care as well as Seizure Detection and also to select the proper patient population so we can drive proper strong utilization since day 1. Another thing to think about Delirium is also we are already in the ICU. So in many ways, the potential adoption barrier from administrative perspective is lower, right? Even for NICU, often we -- it's the departmental expansion, you have to get new recorder Clarity coverage. For Delirium, it's more a patient expansion. So we are very excited, but we want to do the pilot and to be able to talk about it more quantitatively moving forward.

What are some of the reasons that you shouldn't have 100% of existing accounts using Delirium also? Are there operational or financial considerations for the hospitals?

Yes. It's still early, but from my perspective, it's hard for me to think of like if you combine patient care and we also have NTAP, so the first few years can leverage NTAP health economic wise. It's hard to think about rational reasons to say we should then introduce a device that provide a diagnosis that's continuous. In reality, of course, hospital often have competing priorities. We have seen that in Seizure Detection. But the good news is that we have been calling on ICU for years now. So we know how ICUs plan their priority, and we know how to best partner with them to overcome those potential barriers as well.

When I look at your model and your existing penetration into hospitals around the country, there's still a good amount of penetration to go on getting more hospitals on board. But to me, there's a significant amount of leverage still in driving utilization in existing accounts. So how is the sales force set up right now in terms of hunters and gatherers? And where do you see the most opportunity moving forward?

Yes. That's a great question as well. Historically, we have always prioritized both account acquisition as well as driving utilization. And the way we were able to do this is about a few years ago, we actually restructured our sales team. We have 2 independent, highly collaborative sales team, one accountable for account acquisition and one accountable for driving utilization, the CAM organization. And in many medical device, the clinical team is more supportive and our clinical team is actually really truly their sales there drive utilization. So this enable us to constantly drive initiatives independently because they don't have [indiscernible] this issue. And another thing we trend we see is at the hospital system level, we start to see we can potentially both accelerate account acquisition if we have a more holistic hospital system plan and can also work on standardized certain protocol at the hospital system level. So there's synergy between -- strong synergy between the 2 teams as well.

As I think about down the P&L and the drive towards profitability, we'll see what tariffs may be on Wednesday. If those get repealed, that might give your gross margin a little boost. I know you've taken measures to diversify your country location of manufacturing on the headsets. But how are you thinking about both the margins and expenses moving forward? And when do you think we can get to cash flow breakeven?

Yes. We are growth first, but not growth at all cost. So we have been very diligent when we think about our investment. We are very confident that we can reach breakeven with the cash we have raised during IPO. And so we still look for different opportunities when we see a strong growth signal. One example this year that we didn't talk much last year is we're going to grow the infrastructure of health care system team and because we start to see very strong signal if we better engage health care system. So overall, we are not providing the time line for breakeven, but with the cash -- with the margin we have, we are confident we can achieve that.

I would imagine delirium should help you get there as the incremental selling expense is probably a lot less than what you have with seizure?

That's a really great point, yes, and also Neonate and Pediatric because it's leveraging the existing sales team and the TAM expansion is significant. And some of the initial adoption barrier for new indications, you could argue, is lower compared to initially gaining access for seizure.

Well, we're about out of time. Maybe that's a great place to end it. Thank you so much. Thanks, everybody, for coming.

Thank you, Robbie. Thank you, everyone.