CEWE Stiftung & Co. KGaA (CWC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to today's analyst conference call of the CEWE Group following the publication of the Q3 financial results of 2025. I am delighted to welcome the CEO, Thomas Mehls; and CFO, Sirka Hintze, with Vice President IR, Axel Weber in the room, who will speak in a moment and guide us through the presentation and the results. [Operator Instructions] And the recording will be stopped after the presentation and before the Q&A session. Having said this, Mr. Mehls, the stage is yours.

Yes. Thank you very much for your welcome, and I wish you all a very warm welcome on behalf of Sirka Hintze and Axel Weber, whom you will not see, but he is in the room controlling us a little bit, I would say. So I hope you're all very well prepared for Christmas. You have made up your minds about your Christmas presents because we are prepared for Christmas. And that's important. We will come back to that one. So we would like to guide you a little bit through our Q3. You know that Q3 is the most important quarter of CEWE, maybe not in a financial way, but especially in the way how we prepare for the Q4. And this being said, this is obviously right now in our focus. So let's go through the figures and the results. We will present, as always, a slight overview. We will also tell you a little bit about our Christmas preparation and what's coming up for Christmas, and then we will go into each of our segments. So as said, the CEWE Group, and you have read our communication with expected seasonally typical Q3 results. Well, I would phrase it a little bit more optimistic, to be honest. We are quite happy with the top line development we are seeing here. Group turnover increases by more than 6%, and you will see that later on. It's a little bit actually above our expectations while the EBIT development is truly within our expectations. Yes, of course, some cost challenges remain, but I will tell you a little bit more about this while we are actually quite positive about the Q3 development. So -- and we will come to our outlook at the end of the presentation, but our annual targets for 2025 are also confirmed. So let's look a little bit how the situation is in the view of the whole year. And you see our revenue development, group turnover did increase by almost 5 percentage points. And again, there's a very positive notion in that one. We will come to that one in a little bit, but volume is the big topic, which we are quite optimistic and bullish about. The group EBIT, yes, is a little bit below last year. We did comment in our last call already about a couple of one-off effects there. We do have some challenges on the cost side, but we are quite optimistic, nevertheless, regarding Q4, and I will comment on that one in a little bit as well. And well, obviously, looking at these figures, we also confirm our annual targets for 2025. So the -- let's say, more detailed comments will come in each of our sections. So if I said, well, are you prepared for Q4 and for your personal Christmas present, we indeed are prepared for Q4. Actually, we are in Q4 already. And I think it's important to kind of look at what's needed in Q4 to reach our guidance here. And as I said, we are quite optimistic that the Q4 will deliver as expected and maybe even beyond. Operating leverage effect is the big topic here, and we will come to that one in a little bit. So as you know, we have an EBIT target range between EUR 84 million and EUR 92 million. And what is needed to achieve that is somewhere in between an improvement of EUR 1 million and EUR 9 million. And given the growth we have experienced in Q1 and Q3, well, we have experienced and that's kind of passive. Actually, we have managed that growth. We have thought a lot about getting this growth in. And if we succeed in the same way that we did in the first 3 quarters, if we succeed in the same way in Q4, we are, again, as being said, quite optimistic to achieve this target. And again, as I said, EUR 1 million more, EUR 9 million more or less, that's the range -- improvement. That's the range we need to achieve there. So operating leverage, and we will come to volume in a little bit is the big topic here. And those of you, and I know many of you have followed us for many years right now, and you know how big the operating leverage effect is that we're having in Q4. And well, you can contribute a little bit into that one as well by ordering some of your Christmas presents at CEWE, we will be happy. Okay. Let's continue. And as always, well, now let's look at the numbers of photofinishing. I would love to say, but as always, well, the numbers follow a lot of activities, and I would like to take you through a little bit of a journey we had. And you might know every 2 years, roughly, we do present the winners of the CEWE Photo Award. The CEWE Photo Award is something where we do not directly earn a lot of money with, but it's a very important brand activity. This brand you're following is organizing the world's biggest photo contest, and we had more than 650,000 photos uploaded into our systems, and we did the award ceremony in Prague, and we had people from all over the world, Indonesia, China, Cyprus and so on, and we would like to show you a little bit the quality of the photos we did experience. The winner we're going to see right now is actually coming from Cyprus, and that's the Danlock photo. I forgot the English name of these, dancing, dancing -- well, and I'm looking at Axel, that's a difficult name in German even, but maybe I will follow up on that one. So it's a great picture. It's a macro shot of Hassan Baglar, who won with this shot actually. And he did won with similar shot actually in National Geographic Photos, so quite astonishing. So this beautiful RC shot is the favourite of our President of the jury. It's something at the Lake Garda in Italy, shot in the early morning, just a beautiful orchestrated picture you're seeing here. The next one is our Young Talent Award. It's very important for us to actually promote photography also to young people. We're actually also quite bullish on that one. I mean that's a more strategic discussion we are having. Photography is quite popular beyond actually Insta and TikTok and all these platforms, and we are promoting that one. So that's a very young photographer from France who won that one. Astonishing picture here from a photography from Belgium. Between the lines, I think it's perfect title. And you can imagine that's shot in a blink of an eye here. The next one comes from Indonesia, United Colors. Photography is about emotions and this guy really managed to capture emotion. This is a photography from the Ukraine with a drone shot. Drones are famous in Ukraine now sadly for many other things, but this is a drum shot actually from about a cruise ship and a small piece. So if you look a little bit from the far, you see that the swimming pools actually form 2 letters. And well, thank you, Axel. I just got it. It's the Praying Mantis, the winner shot, sorry for my bad English here. That's the one you saw at the very beginning. This is a shot from China, and you see actually 3 creatures here in a very -- well, lucky moment for the bird and an unhappy moment for the big fish. And well, the small one actually was in an unhappy situation anyway. So a very, very lucky and great shot. And that's even an RC kind of shot from a cat, photographer from Brazil actually and he shot this one with a smartphone. So you do not need a big inexpensive lens. So for those of you who are football fans, this is a shot actually from the U.K., but you're not looking at U.K. spectators, you're looking actually at French spectators uniting in a pub in the U.K. And I mean, this is really capturing emotions in a precise moment. Actually, it's a missed shot from the French team, again, in the World Cup match against Argentina, but finally, they won. So it's about that one. And cooking and food, obviously, is an important category for many of these. This is a bit staged, but only a bit because it's a real drink and the photographer at the end of the day drank this drink. You know a lot about photography. Food photography is about staging, but this one is just a little bit staged. And this is a great shot from Saudi Arabia. It's a professional photographer actually from Slovakia on a trip to Saudi Arabia, who really managed to get into a cave and shot this one from within the cave. So great pictures, great ceremony, great for the brands and actually a lot of big reception also in the press of these photos. So look into the publications in your respective countries, and you're very likely to find some of these coverts. But coming again to Christmas, and we are preparing and we did prepare a lot for Christmas. Actually, now we are prepared. Now we are in the running up. So if you happen to have a look in the production right now, you see a lot of young people being trained on the different machines. You know that we will switch very soon into 7 days a week, 24 hours production. We have a lot of seasonal workers on board. They need to be trained into the processes, and that's what's happening right now in production. But on the customer side, obviously, we want to really convince our consumers, the new ones and the ones that did order before with the new features. So we have the momento pocket, which we did test last year, it was quite successful actually, also a bit above my personal expectations. You can actually collect within your CEWE Photobook, you can collect the things like boarding passes or pictures or postcards or whatever it might be that's occurred during the holiday. And now you're able actually to do that with all the products because the test we did was very, very successful. Also, design is a very important topic. A lot of our consumers complained about the first page that this was always in an either boring white or boring black and design is very important to them. So we now made it possible that they can order. That's something you don't find in the bookstore that you can actually design your first page in the way you would -- the book continues, very nice. Design actually is a big topic. It's a big topic. People love to professionalize on the one hand side, their books, but not all are professionals. So we need to really help people to create great books without putting in a lot of work. And that's a very successful move we did over the last years. That -- it's just one of the examples, premium cover designs now for CEWE Photobook. But we do really roll out design features across the whole portfolio. And it's very successful in 2 ways basically. It does increase conversion because it just doesn't -- it does help you to create a more beautiful product. But we also did introduce premium designs so that you actually pay a little bit of extra. And you would call it the digital product almost because for the production, it's the same whether you print product with the design or without the design. So also economically speaking, quite a successful move, I would say. Sustainability and customer centricity is very important to us. We know that many consumers are reluctant to throw away their calendar after the month is over or the year is over. So we're trying now to work with detachable photos in the respect that you can reuse these photos, maybe put it up in the pinboard or send it to relatives or something like this. So that was a big request for consumers if we can help them with that one. So it's actually a test in one calendar type we're doing right now, and let's see how that is going to be. Yes, calendars. I used to call calendars basically a piece of wall art, which changes every month. And calendars -- the biggest volume in calendars actually for us is A4 calendars and then A3 is the next one, and then we have the A2. And we now really introduce a breathtaking format, and it's really a piece of wall art which you can put against your wall, but it changes the picture every month if you happen to turn it around. So big one, cost about EUR 60 in the basic digital printed version. So also economically speaking, quite nice. Yes, calendar for 2. So maybe you have your daily routines, your partner has his or her daily routines. So how to put them together. I go to my yoga lessons, my partner maybe go swimming and how to match these calendars. So it's quite a neat idea to say, okay, it's a calendar actually for 2. It's also a nice gift for Christmas, we believe. So let's see how that goes. So also adding things to the calendar section, sometimes removing things which are not doing that well anymore. So a constant change of portfolio is important to give it a fresh look, but also follow market trends or set market trends actually. And this being said, frames astonishingly are quite in fashion. Is that the way you say that? So still, you would say, well, frames is maybe an old school product, but growth in frames is strong. We see that, and you can now order your prints and that prints maybe margin-wise is not the best product we are having. It's also not the most expensive products. So average order value in prints, as you can imagine, is quite low. So to directly order with the prints, wooden frame is a need for consumers and hopefully need for business as well. As I said, printing with young people is quite fashionable. So to have add-on products like a wooden foot or rail where you can put your foot not only on maybe a pinboard, but actually at your wall. I mean, this really is an add-on product. Again, economically speaking, good. It's not a lot of work for us in the production. On the other hand side, it's great for consumers how to present their pictures. And actually, it's quite a young product. And here, basically, we did talk about design. We're helping a bit with design. This is something you don't design the interior color of the mug, but mugs are designed products. And here you see one of the designs you can order with your pictures, you're the avocado to my toast, probably a nice thing, right? And last but certainly not least in terms of something we're trying to address new target groups in many European countries, pets, especially dogs and cats are becoming a new family member and people are willing to spend a lot on their beloved pets. And adding a nice photo maybe to the photo treat jar of a buddy as it says here, I think, is a nice idea. And if you happen to have an anniversary coming up in your family and you want to celebrate that one with pictures, and again, this is great designs we're introducing here, you can celebrate it maybe in a different way. You can put it up in the gift table, which you're setting up there. So quite a neat idea. And well, it's 13th of November. 1st of December is coming up. And in many, not in all, but in many European countries, Advent calendars are quite fashionable there. You can have the [indiscernible] version, as I call it, with just photos there. We will come to a special version in a minute here. We have the chocolate ones. We have the Tony's Chocolonely ones. But there are a lot of people out there which like to set up their own Advent calendar with maybe little treats they put in there. And this being in a box with a very personal pictures is something new. And for us, we are quite professional in printing paper. So I think it's a good product for us here. And we do have some movements out there where people do not want to maybe gift or small gift with an advent calendar or chocolate, but maybe with activities and inspirations and some sayings in there. So people are changing quite a bit and just reflecting on their inner self, and this is something we want to address here with a very special advent calendar with activities and inspiration, which goes beyond the usual chocolate treat, which is maybe even chocolate or an Advent calendar. And last but not least, we are working also on digital or let's say, business models, which are close to our business, but going more digital here. So a digital greeting card, and I did talk about the design orientation we have in our products where design helps people to create products. And maybe you want to have your invitation to your birthday sent also in addition to the greeting card or just on a digital way, but we still help you to design this digital greeting card and not just a WhatsApp message, right, where you can put in your personal picture combined with a great design. So this is a test, how people respond to that one. And no, it's not for free. So I know we are on an analyst call, so it's important you might want to ask if we actually earn some money with that one. Yes, we do. So -- and good news also running up for the Christmas season. We talk a lot about ourselves that we think we are well prepared for Christmas and that we have great products. The TIPA association, that's a jury kind of price did award us with a record number of awards this year. But the TIPA being publications and blocks for professional photographers, they also did ask their readers about their professional -- of their best choice products. And they did choose the CEWE Photobook with the Panorama page as Favorite Design of the Year. And this makes us quite proud because that's professional photographers and you know that professional photographers are opinion leaders also in the B2C community. So this a little bit, and I could go on and talk for hours about the things that we're doing in preparation for Q4. But let's come to the photofinishing. Let's have a look at the numbers of the Q3. And again, as I said, we are not entirely dissatisfied with what we are have seen here in Q3 to put it in Northern German humble wording here. So our photofinishing turnover did increase by almost 7%. That's good. That's not too bad, I would say. It's EUR 145.3 million. That's again a record. That's again a number we did not have before. And the increase in revenue, we will come to that in a little bit is primarily volume driven. So you would say, well, why is it not price driven, can't you increase prices anymore. We did increase, as you know, prices in the year before quite a bit. So we did pause a little bit on that one also given a little bit the consumer sentiments we feel out there and we managed to really drive volume. And that's a great sign for Q4, given the leverage effect, which we have in Q4 that we really are seeing a volume growth, which we did not see many years before, and that's quite nice. On the EBIT scale, yes, we're a little bit below last year. We would say almost in the same range. So yes, of course, we are looking at transferring this growth, which we have in turnover into EBIT. Obviously, that's our goal. We do still have and are seeing some cost increase challenges, but they're a lot less so in Q3 than we did see them in Q2. So that's a good sign. And we know exactly where these cost increases are coming from. We did deliberately invest into marketing also in the light of Q4. Some of the cost increases, well, we did deliberately, but we're not as happy as with the marketing because that's IT cost increases and others. So we are in managing these ones. But also, you will see that in a little bit, the EBIT line is fully in what we did expect from the Q3. So -- and well, this is basically a repetition. If you did follow us in the last quarters, that's the sum of the quarters we have seen. So we see a nice growth. And comparing that one, you've seen that the growth in Q3 actually was stronger than it is accumulated in the first 3 quarters. And while we did talk about the EBIT, we are a bit behind. You still see the one-off effects we have here and you know that we did have a new collective agreement with one-off effects, and we did have 2 departing Board members, and we have some salary accruals over there, one-off effects in the last quarter. So this is why the gap and the EBITDA for the finishing year accumulated is a bit higher, but it's all explainable for us. And again, it's fully in the expectation, and this is why we are quite positive for Q4. So giving a little bit of perspective here again, and you see actually the turnover, and that's a good news really in all quarters, Q1 and Q2 and Q3 is above the planned target range. So what we are seeing here is a turnover development where we would say, well, even a little bit above our expectations there in all 3 quarters above the planned target range. Well -- but what you see also is the big turnover impact, which we are usually having in Q4. And obviously, for the year 2025, you don't see a column there. This is what we are working on right now. So good turnover development and have that in mind driven by volume growth, we will come to that one. So the turnover target for 2025, we see that confirmed. And this, of course, looking at the EBIT with the same way. And I think you can see a little bit why I said the Q3 is the most important quarter for us in terms of Christmas preparation, but maybe not in numbers. So you can also see why we feel that everything we have seen so far in EBIT is in line with our expectations and is not blocking us from reaching our annual targets. So -- and this is what I commented on. We do see in Q3 a nice volume growth and volume, you can see -- you can look at that in different ways. We have the measurement of total prints and so the prints in all of our photo products may be just a single print or a CEWE Photobook, but maybe 200 photos in there. So we have a volume growth of 6.8%. Actually, we are growing across mainly all categories. The value per photo, which gives then the turnover due to some -- it's not accrual actually to some effects where we actually draw the border between the quarters compared to last year, actually looks like we're stagnating here. Actually, we are continuing with our premiumization if we really eliminate this effect, we did grow by 0.5% also in premiumization. And this is what I was trying to say in terms of designs and all these other things. All these things play very well into our premiumization strategy. And you don't see in our official numbers, but I can tell you, and it's -- actually, it's in the bubble here, 0.5% actually premiumization effect. So also this story continues. So very nice volume growth effect, which we are seeing in the third quarter, which again makes us optimistic for the fourth quarter. And well, this is the effect we are seeing across the accumulated effect across the 3 years. So volume effect of 4.2%. You see the third quarter was stronger in volume, value per photo about 1%. So it's a constant growth. And this is what we are seeing again is very, very little price effects because we did not work this year that much on price. And this gives us the turnover growth of a little bit more than 5% for the finishing. Looking at the CEWE Photobook, you know how important this CEWE Photobook is for us as a company. And we are seeing growth numbers here, which are really good, really good in Q3. It also makes us very optimistic for Q4 because the CEWE Photobook for the fourth quarter is also quite important. We did experience a growth here. Now I continue to say we did experience, right? It sounds like it's coming from the sky. Actually, we did work on managing a growth of 7.3% for the CEWE Photobook. There's a lot of work of all the teams in there. So more than 7% volume growth for the CEWE Photobook and you can see premiumization works here. Actually the turnover growth with almost 9% is even stronger than volume growth. So also nice confirmation, I would say, on our strategy and also confirmation on our outlook. Then let's come to the Commercial Online Print segment. And also just to remember again, this is the setup we are having here with the service focus via printer brand, Saxoprint with a cost leader and actually the best price guarantee. You know that from the last quarters and the regional LASERLINE brand. And actually, it was a better quarter, Q3 was a better quarter though not good yet, not great yet, but a better quarter also than the second quarter. So we actually did see some turnover development. You might remember me commenting on the last quarter where we said, well, we do see a very weak German economy, and this is reflected in our German numbers in the Commercial Online Print segment. So we did invest internationally, that continued and actually, we did manage some turnover growth. But you also did hear me say, well, this international growth is not as profitable, not as strong in margin as the German turnover. And you might remember that we are still in the process of shifting to digital -- not away from offset, but I would say additional to digital print, which gives us a big cost effect. It's not yet totally up and running. I think we brought in the last machine now, and I'm quite confident that from Q1 next year because this is the focus you know that we're also helping with the commercial online print a little bit in the photofinishing. So from Q1, we see hopefully, the good effects that we did expect with the shift or additional digital print in the commercial online print. So -- and here, you see why I said, well, the third quarter was actually a healthier and more brighter outlook than the first 2 quarters because you see accumulated that we are EUR 1.7 million away from our last year result here in EBIT. And actually, the turnover accumulated only grew by 0.2%. So nothing which makes us extremely happy. So let's really -- real quick go into Retail. That's the segment which is not in the most strategic focus of us, but gives us a nice window to the world on photofinishing products. What are we doing in retail there? We have about 100 shops, mainly in Scandinavia and Central and Eastern Europe, actually in Homburg. So if you happen to come by, visit our shop here. But we also do have e-commerce web shops that sell hardware and also photo products in -- with all of these brands. We are moving these brands closer to the CEWE brand. That works actually quite well. We are moving these stores away from the, we call it, hard hardware. The hard hardware -- what is hard hardware? It's a camera, it's a lens. So these things which are usually associate in the old world with the camera shops and we are moving more to photofinishing. That's in line with our strategy, but also moving into products which are closer to photofinishing. These are frames and albums and so on. And that actually pays off quite well. So looking at the next slide, you can see that also in the Q3, we did experience here a nice turnover growth, which comes from actually hardware. So we are looking not at the photofinishing part of retail here, we're looking at the hardware part of retail. So it's 7% growth. We do profit a bit from the weakness of a competitor in Norway, but we're not only growing in Norway and the strategy to focus more on photofinishing related hardware, software/hardware, that's the way we call it actually, on software/hardware products also pay off quite well. But you also see that this is not the most -- the strongest margin business. This is actually why it's not that much in our strategic focus because the turnover growth we are seeing here did actually convert a little bit into EBIT. And if we look to the accumulated figures, you see even better what I'm talking about. We did increase by EUR 1.4 million in the turnover, but only very slightly the EBIT. So it's not a very margin -- it's not a big margin driver of our overall business. So just to complete the segment overview, we have a segment of other, which you did use to -- in the year 2021, you did see an activity there, which we actually sold. And then what we use here is special costs, which are not related to all the other segments. So something like corporate costs regarding to the boards and so on and so on, but also some incomes and profits, which we have from our real estate activities. It's not big usually, but we do have a couple of buildings and actually lands, which we rent out and the rent effects you see here. And it's nicely a slight improvement. And now we are looking at the accumulated figures, so it's EUR 0.5 million better than it was last year. That's fine. So -- this now me talking for 35 minutes, sorry, but it's important that also get a glimpse of how we look into the fourth quarter. So this was a little bit also of a commercial break in between. I will come back to my commercial break at the end of the session, but now to the financial details.

Thank you very much. So Thomas expressed quite detailed about our commercial developments. And of course, this is what we will see, and this is especially expressed in our consolidated income statement. And what you can read here is exactly what Thomas gave us a bit of flavor about is the preparation of Christmas. So you can see here, of course, some operating expenses are increasing. So the marketing expenses, Thomas mentioned, so we are getting prepared for Christmas. And maybe also as an insight, if you would go through our halls here in Oldenburg or in all the other locations we have, you would already feel how concentrated and focused the people are. And if you go to our store and inventory parts, you would see it's filling up. So we're getting prepared. We will see that also later in our cash flow and cash outflows actually. And so we had good growth that was explained by Thomas, and that's being said is that all business segments contributed -- are contributing to our revenue increase, which is quite significant, especially also if you consider the different weakness in the different European countries in developing their economies. And so that's why we are always saying we are not unsatisfied. But I guess we can also be proud as an organization to handle and service these emotional products to our consumers and customers. So personnel expenses, also Thomas explained a bit. So we had some increases due to tariff changes, and this is reflected, of course, into our personnel expenses. And -- but all in all, not surprisingly. So this is also where we take our responsibility and ownership to our people. So we have -- when we look into the personnel expenses, of course, also reflecting our growth, new hires in photofinishing and also in the numbers, you can see the increase of wages. Next page. So the balance sheet first time crosses the EUR 600 million, and it's quite a good and solid growth, especially driven by the higher cash position on the one hand, but also, as I said, in preparation of our Christmas and our last and most important season this year to increase the inventory by paper, photo paper, but also we built up into our facilities and so the property and plant and equipment, and this is our backbone of the business to produce what you can hold in your hands later when you have bought our products. So from an equity perspective, we are still on a very safe and strong growth into our equity ratio by end of September. We achieved 66.6%, which is quite a good development. But it's also, on the other hand, built on the strong results of '24. And this is also what we can see that the cushion we built up in cash is also mainly coming out of the business of last year. So for the free cash flow, we can see here only in the Q3, a development, which shows that a significant or significant outflows reflecting, of course, the free cash flow we have. On the one hand, we have operating activities, which deliver, of course, the income and have to be taken for, I would say, reliabilities we have to pay for. So the tax payments, which are a bit higher than last year and also due to the effects of the year of '23. So we have a cash outflow, which is related to our investing activities. We have invested into digital printing and point-of-sale machineries. And that leaves us in the Q3 with a decline of cash flow of EUR 3.4 million compared to previous year. Summing it up or the year-to-date free cash flow is decreased all in all by EUR 14.5 million compared to previous year. And this is due to less operating -- cash driven operating activities and due to, of course, lower earnings. So all in all, we have a decrease of EUR 3.7 million EBITDA. And this is, of course, reflected in the cash flow. And on the other hand, we have acquisitions of Esprint of the last year and the investment into the equipment, as I mentioned, into the new building in Freiburg or renewals and modernization. And of course, also we have less investments into intangible assets, likely higher investments into SAP S/4HANA and this leaves us with a year-to-date free cash flow of minus EUR 65.2 million. For the return on capital employed, we don't see any strong changes, I would say. I mean, so all in all, we have a strong level of 16.8%, excluding the increase in cash, so the capital employed ratio is even at 17%. And of course, also the ROCE is reflecting our overall business and is not only related to our photofinishing business and is influenced by our commercial online printing business, of course, as well. Okay. So no new surprises, I would say. So the commercial development is developing our and driving our cash and balance sheet development and here and there some extra effects which has also a drive by our season.

Yes, very much so. Thank you, Sirka. And looking forward, and as we said, everything we see here in the first 3 quarters actually makes us quite optimistic for the fourth quarter. That's a very strong and important message for you to take away. All the effects where you would maybe say, well, this is something could be better here and there. Yes, we're seeing that one, but are very well explainable. It's also very, very important for you to -- as a takeaway. And this taken together confirms our outlook. You see here the famous chart, I would say, Axel, which you're used to. So this is our revenue development here. And you might remember that we did set a target between EUR 835 million to EUR 865 million. And well, everything you've seen today, I think, gives you the strong idea that this outlook is probably being fulfilled. We are quite optimistic, and we are confirming it. And the same is true for the EBIT target. Here, you see the big -- well, dependency importance, however you want to call that, of photofinishing. You see that Retail and Commercial Online Print actually in our expectations play a minor role. So it all comes down to photofinishing. This is why it's so important for us to prepare well for Christmas here. And again, we are confirming our outlook for the year 2025 between EUR 84 million and EUR 92 million. So -- and this brings us also -- well, these are the volume figures, and you saw that we are developing quite strongly over there. This brings us to my last commercial break, if you like. So this is -- the German might CEWE Photobook. We could put up a Polish, we could put up an English one or a French one or whatever it might be here. It's not important the language. It's important that you really care for your loved ones. And just remember, the best presence under a Christmas tree is usually a very personal one. There's no better present than a photo product from CEWE. So it may it be a CEWE Photobook or a calendar from us. You will see some tears in the eyes of few beloved ones.