Chatham Lodging Trust (CLDT) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Chatham Lodging Trust Fourth Quarter 2025 Financial Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference call over to Chris Daly, owner of Daly Gray, Inc. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Jenny. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Chatham Lodging Trust Fourth Quarter 2025 Results Conference Call. Please note that many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements as defined by federal securities law. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, both known and unknown, as described in our most recent Form 10-K and other SEC filings. All information in this call is as of February 25, 2026, unless otherwise noted, and the company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statement to conform the statement to actual results or changes in the company's expectations. You can find copies of our SEC filings and earnings release, which contain reconciliations to non-GAAP financial measures referenced on this call on our website at chathamlodgingtrust.com. Now to provide you with some insights into Chatham's 2025 fourth quarter results, allow me to introduce Jeff Fisher, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Dennis Craven, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer; and Jeremy Wegner, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Let me turn the session over to Jeff Fisher. Jeff?

Okay, Chris, thank you very much, and I certainly appreciate everyone joining us here for our call today. Before talking about the fourth quarter specifically and our outlook for this year, I'd like to spend just a few minutes highlighting some noteworthy accomplishments as we look back at the last year. Operationally, it was a really good year for us despite the extreme volatility that adversely impacted the industry and our top line. On the top line, for the fourth consecutive year, though, our RevPAR performance beat the industry, and we continued pushing our other operating profits, other department operating profits higher as well. Despite essentially flat RevPAR and for this, we are really proud, we were able to limit our GOP margin decline to only 20 basis points by staying laser-focused on our staffing levels and improving productivity. Our labor and benefits costs actually declined slightly in 2026, offsetting wage increases of almost 4% in the year. And most importantly, for the first time since the pandemic, we generated the highest operating margins in the industry, reclaiming our top spot among the rankings that we held for an entire decade from 2010 to 2019. Looking ahead to this year, our hotel wages are reassessed in July each year, and our wage increase for the second half of 2025 is up only 2% versus the first half of the year, which means wage pressures are moderating throughout 2026. Strategically, we sold 4 of our older lower RevPAR hotels at an approximate cap rate of 6% and used those proceeds to reduce debt and to acquire shares under the repurchase plan we initiated in 2025. Since announcing the plan, we've repurchased approximately 1.8 million shares or approximately 4% of our outstanding shares at an average price of $6.87 per share for a total repurchase of almost $13 million or just over half of our $25 million plan. At our average acquisition price, those shares were acquired at an approximate 9.5% cap rate based on our 2026 corporate NOI guidance and might be the only lodging REIT with an average repurchase price below current trading levels since peers initiated their repurchase plans. Using average multiples for the last 25 years, these repurchases certainly are going to be accretive. On the corporate side, we added 10 rooms to our portfolio by converting excess meeting space and other available spaces, which will deliver the best returns for those spaces in the hotels. We continue to participate in the GRESB sustainability benchmark and ranked 29th out of 95 listed companies. We completed the largest and most attractive financing in Chatham's history with total capacity of $0.5 billion while reducing our overall borrowing costs, and we used proceeds from the sale of assets and free cash flow to reduce our net debt by $70 million and further reduce our leverage ratio to a mere 20%. By the way, that leverage compares to almost 35% in 2019. All of these accomplishments allowed us to increase returns to our shareholders, and we're able to increase our common dividend by 2020 -- excuse me, by 28% in 2025, including our repurchase plan and both common and preferred dividends, we returned approximately $35 million to our shareholders. It was truly a great job by our teams at Island Hospitality and Chatham, staying in constant communication and on the same page, delivering solid results throughout a very volatile year. As we move forward, we're confident in the industry long term. The supply-demand equation should benefit existing owners as construction costs remain quite high and development is only justified in certain markets. GDP growth is healthy and should accelerate if even a portion of the trillions of dollars of announced investments in technology and reshoring of manufacturing come to fruition in the United States. Existing hotel owners should benefit via stronger RevPAR growth in the years ahead. We obviously need to be able to push those incremental revenue dollars down to GOP. And really for the first time in almost a decade, wage pressures are mitigating to the lower single-digit range, which is vital given that labor costs are our largest expense. As we sit here today, we're in a great position to deliver earnings growth and shareholder returns in multiple ways. First, we will continue to repurchase shares and intend to utilize most, if not all, of our $25 million plan this year. Second, operationally, we are positioned to outperform the industry on both top and bottom line. There was a lot of noise in 2025 that impacted RevPAR in some of our key markets. So hopefully, things calm down this year. And if they do, our operating model is best at driving profits higher as we've demonstrated over and over again. Third, we'll continue to opportunistically sell older nonperforming assets with the goal of reinvesting those proceeds into share repurchases or hotel investments. And on that front, we were disappointed not to make any external acquisitions in 2025, but sometimes the best deals are the ones that you don't do, and we never had enough conviction on any deals and chose to remain patient with significant financial flexibility. We are confident that we can make some acquisitions in 2026 as financing costs have lessened and seller pricing expectations have adjusted somewhat from where we were a year ago. The markets, though, of course, will have to make sense for us, and we are looking for some continued diversification, both in markets and demand generators. And of course, yields have to approximate the implied yield on buying our own stock. We want to invest in markets that are going to benefit from increased business investments, which is generally the Central and Southeastern U.S. Lastly, we do expect to commence our Portland, Maine hotel development in the coming months with opening before the 2028 summer. As I stated earlier in my comments, hotel development really only makes sense in certain markets and Downtown Portland happens to be one of them, especially considering we have no cost basis in the land. Our focus is on increasing shareholder returns. And in addition to the share repurchase program, we believe our initiatives should enable us to return even more money to our shareholders via further increased dividends this year. Before Dennis gets into the fourth quarter details, I do want to spend a few minutes talking about our largest market, Silicon Valley, its performance in 2025 and our outlook beyond. Silicon Valley is our largest market and RevPAR grew only 1% in 2026, but it was a tale of 2 halves as RevPAR was up 5% in the first half of the year, and then we were off 4% in the third quarter and less than 1% in the fourth. Our Mountain View Residence Inn was under renovation for the last 2 months of 2025 and will remain under reno through March of this year. Also, if you recall from our third quarter call, we lost some business related to pricing strategies around a single corporate client at our 2 Sunnyvale hotels. Third quarter RevPAR was down 9% in the third quarter, and we did a great job replacing that business or some of it in the fourth with RevPAR only down 1%. We'll continue to feel some impacts in the first quarter of this year as to that account. But as the year progresses, our comps will get better, and we'll benefit from the World Cup schedule, and that sets up very well for our 2 Sunnyvale hotels. And of course, we remain very constructive on the Valley and Mountain View, particularly, of course, is anchored by Google, Waymo, LinkedIn, Intuit and several other firms that certainly provide a good steady source of demand for that hotel. Sunnyvale is quickly rebounding from the post-pandemic slumber. Sunnyvale's office market is rebounding faster than any other Silicon Valley market and had 1.4 million square feet of positive absorption last year. In 2025, Apple increased its square footage by over 1 million feet and LinkedIn added to its campuses and Applied Intuition, which is a $15 billion software company for self-driving cars moved into Sunnyvale. And of course, our largest client, Applied Materials, is building a $4 billion chip facility that's only a block or 2 away from our 2 Sunnyvale hotels. So we certainly look forward to continued better times over the next few years in the Valley. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Dennis.

Thanks, Jeff. Good morning, everyone. Some additional RevPAR information. Occupancy at our 4 Silicon Valley hotels was 72% and ADR was up 2.5% in the quarter despite that shift in business that Jeff talked about in Sunnyvale from the third and fourth quarters. Our 6 predominantly leisure hotels, which account for approximately 20% of our EBITDA, produced RevPAR growth of 50 basis points in the quarter. And the shutdowns impact on our 3 D.C. area hotels accounted for about 60% of our quarterly RevPAR decline. Some more color on our larger markets, California, which is home to 2 of our -- 2 more of our top 8 markets in addition to Silicon Valley, Los Angeles and San Diego. San Diego RevPAR declined 8% in 2025 as the market retracted from an all-time best convention calendar in 2024. Additionally, demand slipped due to the opening of the nearby Gaylord as well as the shutdown of the border, which reduced our government business at our hotel. The 2026 convention calendar sets up similarly to 2025 with 43 conventions in '26 versus 46 in '25. In L.A., RevPAR at our 3 hotels was up 4% in 2025 due in part to the significant fire-related business we received, especially at our Woodland Hills Home2, which benefited basically from January through the early parts of May. And then obviously, in the L.A. area for the balance of the year, it was generally softer of 2025 due to the general unrest in the L.A. area. Hopefully, that also settles down in 2026. And similar to Sunnyvale, we should benefit from World Cup demand given the proximity of our Marina del Rey and Anaheim hotels to the stadium in L.A. In other large markets, our Coastal Northeast hotels have better 2026 comps due to renovation impacts in '25 and our D.C. area hotels have much easier comps after January due to all the shutdown-related businesses or pauses in 2025. Our Bellevue Residence Inn also should continue to benefit from increasing corporate demand. In Texas, all 3 markets have felt the impact of convention demand falloff, with Dallas and Austin convention centers under renovation and expansion, while San Antonio just didn't have a great convention calendar in 2025. Dallas will have tough convention comps through the first quarter, but we will see demand from the World Cup in the second and third quarters as Dallas not only hosts 9 games, which is the most of any city, but the nearby Kay Bailey Convention Center will host up to 5,000 media professionals as it's serving as the international broadcast center for the World Cup. And then in a very encouraging development for our 2 Austin hotels at The Domain, a planned $3 billion MD Anderson Hospital and Research Center that was previously expected to be built downtown is now expected to be built at The Domain with groundbreaking starting in 2026. Outside of our top markets at our Home2 in Phoenix, as a reminder, it opened in 2024, and we acquired the hotel in May of 2024, RevPAR was up approximately 17% in the quarter as we continue to gain market share as we've been able to partner with the nearby baseball stadium, the Arena and the convention center to participate in business blocks that were generally reserved far in advance of the stay dates. Charleston and Savannah continued to grow due to rising corporate demand in South Carolina. And in Savannah, coming out of a really great renovation, it's really done well with getting additional corporate demand and leisure demand to the hotel. Our top 5 RevPAR hotels in the quarter were our Residence Inn White Plains with RevPAR of $200, our Residence Inn Fort Lauderdale at $186 and Residence Inn New Rochelle, New York at $185, followed by our Residence Inn Anaheim and our Hampton Inn Portland with RevPAR of $166. For 2025, our top RevPAR hotels were the Hampton Inn, Portland with RevPAR over $200. And of course, that's great news for our pending development, followed by our Hilton Garden Inn Marina del Rey, Residence Inn and White Plains, Fort Lauderdale and San Diego Gaslamp, all 5 with RevPAR over $185. As Jeff remarked in his opening comments, we were pleased with our ability to mitigate our margin loss throughout 2025. During the fourth quarter, our GOP margins only declined 30 basis points despite RevPAR declining almost 2%. We were able to hold the year-over-year increase in labor and benefit costs to just under 2% in the quarter and which was the primary driver behind limiting the decline in that department's profit to only 1%. Most other operating line items were relatively stable year-over-year with nondepartmental expenses flat at approximately $21 million. And the only other major item to note was that guest acquisition-related commission costs were down a couple of hundred thousand dollars and aided our margins by approximately 20 bps. Our hotel EBITDA margins benefited from some onetime property tax refunds, and they actually grew 70 basis points in the quarter. Property insurance was down 3% in the quarter and great news on our renewal is that those premiums are projected to decline a further 15% on a same-store basis in 2026. For the year, our GOP margin decline was limited to a mere 40 basis points. Labor and benefits only increased 1.2% on a per occupied room basis in the quarter and actually declined slightly from last year to 2025. For the 33 comparable hotels, our headcount decreased 13% from a year ago. For the quarter, our top 5 producers of GOP were all Residence Inns. In fact, the top 7 were all Residence Inns, but leading the way was Residence Inn Gaslamp with $1.6 million, followed by our Residence Inns in Anaheim, both Sunnyvales and White Plains. For the year, our Gaslamp Residence Inn led the way, followed by our Residence Inn Sunnyvale #2 and Bellevue hotels and then rounding out the top 5 were our Embassy Suites Springfield despite all of the government shutdown impacts and threats. And lastly, our other Sunnyvale hotel. So just to point out, despite a volatile last 2 quarters in Sunnyvale, the fact that both of those hotels as well as our Bellevue Residence Inn were in our top 5 of GOP producers in the year is pretty encouraging from a corporate demand standpoint. On the CapEx front, we spent approximately $4 million in the quarter. And during the quarter, we had commenced renovations at our Residence Inn in Austin and Mountain View, California, and those will be wrapping up, as Jeff talked about shortly. Our CapEx budget for 2026 is approximately $26 million, basically the same as 2025 and includes 3 renovations at a cost of approximately $17 million. The 3 hotels scheduled for renovation in 2026 are our Gaslamp Residence Inn, our Hyatt Place Pittsburgh and our Homewood Suites Farmington, all 3 scheduled to commence in the fourth quarter. Lastly, when you look at our guidance, I wanted to note the projected performance of our top markets. Silicon Valley RevPAR is projected up 3% to 5% in 2026 with increasing business travel demand as well as a favorable World Cup schedule as nearby Levi's Stadium is hosting 6 games. Los Angeles is down 1% to 3%, again, primarily due to the tough comps caused by the L.A. wildfire demand in our hotels in 2025. Our Coastal Northeast portfolio is projected to be up -- or between flat to up 2%, with our Greater New York hotels essentially projected to finish flat for 2026. And in D.C., we're projected up 2% to 4% as we lap over all the shutdown effects. San Diego is projected to be down slightly, again due to the decline in conventions from 46 to 43. And Dallas is projected to be down mid-single digits due to the lost business related to the convention center expansion and renovation that's ongoing. And lastly, of our top markets, Bellevue is expected to grow mid- to upper single digits as it laps over renovation comps, but also increased business travel demand and a little bit of World Cup as well. Jeremy?

Thanks, Dennis. Good morning, everyone. Our Q4 2025 hotel EBITDA was $22.4 million. Adjusted EBITDA was $20.2 million and adjusted FFO was $0.21 per share. We were able to generate a GOP margin of 40.2% and hotel EBITDA margin of 33.2% in Q4. GOP margins for the quarter were only down 30 basis points from Q4 2024 despite the 1.8% RevPAR decline in the quarter due to outstanding expense control and stabilizing inflationary increases and hotel EBITDA margins increased by 70 basis points due to $550,000 of property tax refunds in the quarter. In late December, Chatham closed the sale of the Homewood Billerica for $17.4 million. And over the course of 2025, Chatham completed 4 asset sales for a total of $71.4 million. These asset sales, together with the successful refinancing and upsizing of Chatham's revolving credit facility and term loan in late September, have helped Chatham achieve its lowest ever leverage level and highest ever level of liquidity. Chatham's strong balance sheet puts the company in an excellent position to continue actively repurchasing shares and to grow opportunistically through accretive acquisitions. Turning to our 2026 guidance. We expect RevPAR of minus 0.5% to plus 1.5%, adjusted EBITDA of $84 million to $89 million and adjusted FFO per share of $1.04 to $1.14 for the full year. This guidance reflects our decision to exclude noncash stock-based compensation expense from our adjusted FFO effective January 1, 2026, so that our presentation is comparable to how the majority of lodging REIT peers report this measure. Our guidance reflects the sales of the Homewood Brentwood, Courtyard Houston -- Hampton Houston and Homewood Billerica, which closed in 2025 and collectively contributed $2.1 million to Chatham's 2025 EBITDA. You should also note that Chatham's 2025 EBITDA and FFO included approximately $2.6 million or $0.05 per share of onetime benefits from property tax refunds, workers' compensation refunds and payroll tax refunds, which are not expected to repeat in 2026. Reflecting the asset sales completed in 2025, our 2025 RevPAR would have been $130 in Q1, $156 in Q2, $154 in Q3, $131 in Q4 and $142 for the full year. In 2025, our RevPAR increased 4.4% in Q1 before declining 0.4% in Q2, 0.9% in Q3 and 1.8% in Q4. So year-over-year comparisons will generally be challenging in Q1 2026 before getting easier over the rest of the year. We generally expect that Chatham's Q1 2026 RevPAR will decline low single digits and then be positive for the rest of the year. Also note that our capital structure includes $200 million of floating rate debt, and our guidance assumes that SOFR will decline based on the current forward curve, which reflects the assumption of rate cuts in 2026. So our guidance assumes quarterly interest expense will decline over the course of 2026. While our guidance does not reflect any share repurchases or acquisitions, our plan is to continue repurchasing shares and over time to reinvest asset sale proceeds into accretive acquisitions. This concludes my portion of the call. Operator, please open the line for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is from Gaurav Mehta from Alliance Global Partners.

I wanted to ask you on some of the dispositions that you have made in '25. As you look into your portfolio, do you think there's room to sell any more assets in '26.

Gaurav, this is Dennis. Nice to talk to you. Listen, I think we probably have 1 or 2 more that we'll opportunistically look at selling. But I think certainly, the half a dozen hotels we've sold over the last 18 months or so kind of did a good bit of trimming. So we'll always look to do a couple here and there, but with the purpose of certainly reinvesting those dollars.

Okay. And maybe on the, I guess, acquisition side, I think in the prepared remarks, you said maybe there's some improvement in the pricing. I'm just wondering if you could maybe provide some more color on, I guess, deploying some of the disposition proceeds from last year and maybe taking leverage up back to historical levels?

Yes. This is Jeff. Gaurav. Certainly, we're comfortable since we've been at this for a long time with leverage levels that we've had from 2010, for example, to 2020. So yes, we are -- we have been digging in here and doubling down on our efforts. I think generally, what we're seeing in the market, since RevPAR has flattened out, and this always seems to be the case, sellers seem to get a little bit more realistic about what their hotel may or may not really be worth and have a little more incentive, I think, to transact if they've got flat RevPAR and EBITDA going down a little bit, such as occurred during 2025 and the prospect by most companies in the category that we like -- as you know, is kind of a flattish RevPAR outlook. Again, we think for us and maybe for others, that's a very conservative outlook, but we're going to take advantage of that outlook by owners as well and try to make a few deals.

All right. Great. Maybe on, I guess, the expense and margin side, where do you expect to see some pressures in '26. I think on the wage side, it seems like it's coming down to mid-single digits, maybe outside of wages, other expense line items?

Yes. I mean, listen, I think especially early in 2026, utilities have a little bit of pressure on them just because of the cold storms that have hit, whether it was the Central and Southeast last month and now -- or earlier this month, but also now you have the Northeast. So I think you probably -- all of us will have a little bit of utility pressures here in the first quarter. But really outside of that, Gaurav, I mean, I think it's really how much you can control the labor on a wage increase basis. So really, everything else is fairly stable from an operating expense standpoint.

Your next question is from Aryeh Klein from BMO Capital Markets.

Maybe just following up on the expense side. You've had a lot of success there, and you've generated some real productivity improvements. Just curious how much room you think is left on that front and the ability to kind of keep a lid on costs just from those productivity improvements.

Aryeh, I mean, listen, I think we'd certainly love to say there's always more. But I think as I talked about in my prepared remarks, our headcount is down about 13% year-over-year. Both Chatham and Island are spending a lot of time literally adjusting models every day based on trends, and it was very volatile in 2025. So I think given the fact that we're hopeful that, as Jeff talked about, with wage increases kind of averaging right at 2% from the first half of the year to the last half of 2025, that we haven't seen anything that has changed that over the first almost 2 months of 2026. So for us, it's all about controlling wages and headcount. And we're going to continue to do that throughout the year. And hopefully, that helps us do a little bit better down the road.

Yes. I mean the focus there is not trying to continue to find cuts that probably don't exist, but it is to flow -- if it's a nominal RevPAR increase, it's to flow that money to the GOP and to the bottom line. And I think we have proven that Island has been pretty successful in doing that. So really, that's for this year. If we get some upside, we want to see that flowing right to the bottom line to enhance those returns for everybody.

I appreciate that color. And then maybe just a couple of quicker ones. You gave a lot of detail on your market level expectations for 2026. Curious just overall, the impact from the World Cup and your expectations around that, given that you do have a number of markets that seem well positioned there. And then -- just on the Portland, Maine development, just the costs associated with that. I don't believe that's included with CapEx. Just wanted to confirm that.

Yes. So I'll start with Portland. The cost is not included in our CapEx number. We'll come out with official guidance on that probably at our next earnings call, Aryeh, with respect to dollars and especially the timing of the flow of those dollars over the project to make sure everybody at least has it modeled correctly. And then with respect to the World Cup, I mean, listen, I think we've -- certainly when you look at it by market, we're going to be fairly conservative at the outset. And just to give you a specific example, the International Broadcast Center at the Kay Bailey Convention Center in Dallas, just within the last few months, we had a smaller group that basically canceled for the hotel. I think you probably -- you hear that in some locations, there's concerns about demand and tickets and who's coming in and everything like that. So yes, it's going to be very good for the markets in general. But at least where we sit here today, we're going to be -- we're still going to be a little bit conservative about how that ultimately translates because there is still some uncertainty over demand related to events in certain cities, whether that's L.A., Seattle and even at the -- even in Dallas.

[Operator Instructions] And your next question is from Tyler Batory from Oppenheimer.

Just wanted to expand on the RevPAR guide a little bit, and you gave some details on markets and whatnot. But just really trying to get a good sense on the cadence that we should expect for the year. I think you said down low single digits in Q1 and then up the rest of the year. I mean how much of that is just the comps? Maybe remind us some company-specific building blocks this year that are contributing to the growth in the last 3 quarters of the year compared with the first quarter?

Yes. I mean I think basically, if you look at first quarter this year, tough comps due to, one, inauguration last year and the wildfires. And then for the last 3 quarters of the year, you're kind of looking at a 0 to 2-ish, 1.5-ish RevPAR growth for the balance of the last 3 quarters. A lot of that is due to the effects of whether that was in D.C. with the 3 hotels with all the shutdowns. You had a lot of uncertainty and unrest in L.A. that really pulled back some demand that I think should aid us this year. We have a couple of like onetime events. Obviously, Pittsburgh is hosting the NFL draft in the second quarter right outside the doors of our hotel. So that's going to be a plus in the second quarter. And I think from a summer perspective, if you look at it, we're trading off a Ryder Cup out on Long Island with a U.S. -- I believe it's U.S. open at Shinnecock. So that really shouldn't affect much. But I think in general, across some of our larger markets where there was some -- should be some easier comps the last 3 quarters of the year.

Okay. Great. From a revenue management perspective, how are you thinking about the mix of occupancy, ADR in 2026? And how is that influencing your margin expectations for the year.

Yes. I mean I think, generally speaking, it's mostly ADR growth for 2026. I think it might be just a -- yes, it's basically kind of flattish occupancy. So strictly ADR.

Okay. So switching gears to capital allocation. You've been pretty active repurchasing shares. I assume you still view the stock as undervalued, given where shares are today, how aggressively do you expect to deploy the rest of that authorization? And just help us think about balancing potential buybacks with what you might do in terms of acquisitions?

Yes. I think, Tyler, I'll start. I mean, I think with respect to the repurchase plan, we intend to utilize most, if not all of it in 2025. If you look at kind of the portfolio and the free cash flow from '25 and 2026 after CapEx and after dividends, it's -- essentially, we're using all of that over the last -- between those 2 years to utilize the entire repurchase, which we think is just -- it's how it should be done, right? You're generating excess cash flow after dividends, and we believe we're undervalued there, and we're going to buy it back. So -- and I think, listen, from an external perspective, buying hotels, as we've talked, we haven't really done -- the last hotel we bought was Phoenix in May of 2024. So it's been almost 2 years. We've been very just patient in understanding not only from the financing and what Jeremy did with the balance sheet over the last couple of years, that was a lot of work. But we're in a great position from a debt perspective to hopefully do some deals. And of course, it's got to be at a cap rate that makes money, especially and makes sense in light of where we're trading. But that's why we've been pretty patient. So we're hopeful to be able to execute on that a bit more here in 2026.

There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed.

Well, I think we can wrap it up by saying thank you all for being on the call and being attentive, good questions. As I said, hopefully, this guidance is conservative, and we do have the benefit of some, as Dennis explained, some positive attributes for this year on the top line that should come to fruition and flow that to the bottom line is the focus. So we will look forward to talking to you for the next quarter. Thanks.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.