Chemtrade Logistics Income Fund (CHEUN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

February 21, 2020

Toronto Stock Exchange CA Materials Chemicals earnings 56 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Chemtrade Logistics Income Fund Q4 and Annual 2019 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Mark Davis, President and CEO. Thank you. Please go ahead, sir.

Mark Davis

executive
#2

Thank you, operator, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us for our conference call and webcast today. As usual, joining me is Rohit Bhardwaj, our Chief Financial Officer. Before I commence the review, I would remind you that our presentation contains certain forward-looking statements that are based on current expectations and are subject to a number of uncertainties and risks, and actual results may differ materially. Further information identifying risks, uncertainties and assumptions and additional information on certain non-IFRS measures referred to in this call can be found in the disclosed documents filed by Chemtrade with the securities regulatory authorities available at sedar.com. One of the non-IFRS measures we'll refer to in this call is adjusted EBITDA, which is EBITDA modified to exclude only noncash items such as unrealized foreign exchange gains and losses. For simplicity, we'll refer to it as EBITDA as opposed to adjusted EBITDA. Both of these terms are fully defined in our MD&A. Now in general terms, we're pleased with the way we executed our business activities and operations in 2019. The initiatives we undertook in 2018 and '19 to adjust to changes in market conditions and improve day-to-day execution bore substantial benefits in 2019. While there's always room for improvement, our plants operated well and the supply chain and logistics movements were executed well. Despite this improvement in execution, our aggregate financial results were lower than we had expected at the beginning of the year. This was due almost entirely to the prices received for our chlor-alkali products, and in particular, the prolonged weakness in caustic soda prices. I'll have more to say about our latest outlook for these -- for pricing in my closing remarks. Despite the CN rail strike in the fourth quarter, which had a negative EBITDA impact of approximately $3 million, our results for the year are in line with the guidance we provided. Ignoring the impact of IFRS 16, which Rohit will outline shortly, in aggregate, our operating business generated EBITDA in 2019 that was similar to 2018. We achieved this result despite significantly lower results in the Electrochemicals, or EC segment. In that business, the low caustic soda prices throughout the year and lower netbacks realized from hydrochloric acid resulted in EBITDA that was $50.5 million lower than in 2018. This significant decrease, primarily due to the market price of caustic, was more than offset by strong operating results in our Sulphur Products & Performance Chemicals, or SPPC segment. SPPC reported significantly higher results in each quarter in 2019 than in 2018. For the full year, EBITDA was $52.1 million higher than in 2018. A number of factors contributed to the increase, including higher realized selling prices, reduced logistics costs and fewer maintenance turnarounds in 2019 relative to 2018. While all segments benefited from improved execution this year, the results were most obvious in SPPC. Our Water Solutions and Specialty Chemicals or WSSC segment posted steady year-over-year EBITDA. Contract renewals for water treatment products during the year were generally made at higher prices, more than offsetting raw material cost increases and weaknesses in some of the specialty chemicals. So in general, our business has executed well in 2019. But in aggregate, successful execution was counteracted by the decrease in the market price for caustic soda. We are pleased with how the reconfigured SPPC business has adjusted to structural changes in the merchant acid market, and how our water chemicals business gained strength throughout the year as new contracts came into force. Caustic prices started weakening about a year ago, and the weakness has continued longer than we or the industry experts had expected. However, the long-term forecast continues to call for higher prices for a number of years. We remain confident that the results for EC will improve over time. And that our focus on execution will continue to deliver benefits. Rohit will now provide you with some details on the fourth quarter results before I provide some further information on our outlook. Go ahead.

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#3

Thanks, Mark. Good morning. As Mark indicated, our plants and supply chain continued to operate well in the fourth quarter of 2019 and results also reflect higher realized selling prices for sulfuric acid. Before I review the financial results for the fourth quarter and the year, there are a couple of items to note. The application of IFRS 16 on leases at January 1, 2019, means that Chemtrade now recognizes depreciation and interest expense instead of operating lease expense for leases that were previously classified as operating leases. This results in increase in EBITDA, but it does not affect distributable cash. Also comparative information for 2018 has not been restated. In 2018 and 2019, litigation reserves of $100 million and $40 million, respectively, negatively affected both EBITDA and distributable cash. Loan repayment costs of $7.4 million in 2018 affected distributable cash. I will exclude this in my comments this morning about full year results to better compare the actual operating performance of our businesses. These items did not affect fourth quarter results in both 2019 and 2018. Looking first at the aggregate results for the fourth quarter of 2019. Revenue was $355.2 million, a decrease of $35.6 million from 2018. The decrease was primarily due to lower prices for caustic soda and hydrochloric acid in the EC segment. These decreases more than offset higher selling prices for sulfuric acid. Aggregate EBITDA for the fourth quarter of 2019 was $70.3 million compared with $65 million in the fourth quarter of 2018. Excluding the $14.4 million benefit of IFRS 16, EBITDA for the fourth quarter of 2019 was lower than 2018 by $9.1 million. Strong results in the SPPC and WSSC segments more than offset by the EC segment where EBITDA was $19.2 million lower than 2018. Distributable cash after maintenance CapEx for the fourth quarter was $1.4 million or $0.02 per unit. This reflected the lower level of EBITDA generated during the quarter and the heavy maintenance CapEx incurred in the fourth quarter. For the full year 2019, distributable cash from continuing operations after maintenance CapEx was $122.1 million or $1.32 per unit compared with $149 million or $1.61 per unit in 2018. Consolidated revenue for 2019 was $1.5 billion, which was $62.9 million lower than 2018. The decrease was due primarily to lower selling prices for caustic soda and HCL, partially offset by higher selling prices and higher sales volumes for water products and WSSC and higher selling prices for sulfuric acid. Aggregate EBITDA for 2019 was $335.6 million compared with $296.2 million in the previous year. 2018 EBITDA included lease expenses of $56.2 million. Ignoring the effect of IFRS 16, 2019 EBITDA was $16.9 million lower than 2018. SPPC generated strong results in 2019 relative to 2018, with EBITDA improving by $52.1 million. This was, however, almost entirely offset by the EC segment where 2019 EBITDA was $50.5 million lower than 2018. Now turning to segmented results for the quarter. SPPC generated revenue of $117.3 million compared with $129.1 million in 2018. EBITDA for the quarter was $34.2 million, which was $17 million higher than 2018. While IFRS 16 contributed $5.8 million to the improvement, the majority of the increased EBITDA came from improvements in the business itself. Despite sales volumes being lower than last year due to reduced by-product supply, higher selling prices for sulfuric acid combined with better operations resulted in significantly higher margins. There was also a lower-than-normal level of maintenance turnout activity in 2019 relative to 2018. Our WSSC segment reported fourth quarter revenue of $101.8 million compared with $102.4 million in 2018. EBITDA improved to $14.6 million, including the positive IFRS 16 impact of $1 million compared with $11.9 million generated in 2018. Selling prices for water products increased and raw material costs stabilized, resulting in expanded margins. This was partially offset by lower results for specialty chemicals. Our EC segment reported revenue of $136.1 million for the fourth quarter of 2019, which was $23.2 million lower than the same period of 2018. The lower revenue was due to lower selling prices for caustic soda and for HCL. For the fourth quarter of 2019, caustic soda prices were 15% lower than the fourth quarter of 2018. HCL selling prices and netbacks were lower by 21% and 27%, respectively. From an EBITDA perspective, excluding the $7.2 million benefit from IFRS 16, EBITDA for the fourth quarter of 2019 was $19.2 million lower than the same period of 2018. This was primarily due to lower selling prices for both caustic soda and HCL. The week-long CN rail strike in November also had a negative impact on EBITDA of roughly $3 million. Maintenance CapEx in the fourth quarter was $36.9 million, bringing total maintenance CapEx in 2019 to $82.7 million. We expect maintenance CapEx in 2020 to range between $80 million and $90 million. Excluding unrealized foreign exchange gains, corporate costs during the fourth quarter of 2019 were $12.7 million, including a positive IFRS 16 impact of $400,000, compared with $10.4 million in the fourth quarter of 2018. This increase is due primarily to higher compensation accruals. We maintain ample liquidity with USD 265.4 million undrawn on our USD 850 million credit facility and are in compliance with all our bank covenants. In October, we amended certain terms of our senior credit facility as well as extended the term. The facility now matures in October 2024. On October 1, we completed the issuance of $100 million principal amount of 6.5% convertible unsecured subordinated debentures. The net proceeds of the offering were used to pay down senior debt. During the fourth quarter, we announced the redemption of the outstanding Chemtrade Electrochem, formerly Canexus, Series VI, 6.5% debentures. The debentures were redeemed at par on January 3, 2020, for a total of $74.6 million. I'll now hand the call back to Mark.

Mark Davis

executive
#4

Thanks, Rohit. Overall, we're pleased with our execution across all businesses and operations in 2019. For the most part, all of our plants operated well. We also were successful in reducing logistics costs, including rightsizing of our rail fleet. We remain focused on improving execution every year and expect further improvements in 2020. We continue to manage all the things that are within our control and ensure that the business is prepared to realize on opportunities especially increased caustic soda prices and HCL demand and pricing when they occur. I do want to touch on a couple of recent developments that are affecting our business. First is the disruption to rail service caused by the recent blockades in various parts of Canada. We, like most chemical companies, are heavily dependent upon the rail as that's often the only viable mode of transportation for raw materials and finished goods. The rail network is very complex and interconnected. Therefore, disruptions in one area can affect other parts of the network. The situation is fluid and it's difficult for us to estimate the financial impact of reduced rail service. What we can say is that to date, the costs have not been material, but many of our plants and our customers' facilities only have a small margin of operating safety. Second issue is the effect of the COVID-19 virus on economic activity, particularly in the Asian chlor-alkali industry. Recent reports show that the industry operating rates have dropped as there is reduced demand for both chlorine and caustic soda. As a reminder, the most important factor for us is the imbalance between demand for chlorine and caustic soda. As a general statement, if demand for chlorine exceeds demand for caustic in Asia, the price of caustic soda drops and that hurts us and vice versa. Very recent indications are that the Northeast Asia spot price for caustic soda may be rising by more than USD 50 per ton. Currently, the COVID-19 virus has reduced Asian chlor-alkali operating rates from about 80% to 65% or lower, and has other serious effects on Asian and worldwide economic activity. We can't predict how the virus will ultimately affect economic activity and caustic pricing for the balance of the year, but our second quarter pricing will be strongly influenced by the index value that we see over the next several weeks. I'll provide some comments on our recently issued 2020 guidance in a minute. First, like last year, I want to provide you with some high-level comments on the market dynamics for certain key products. Generally, other than caustic soda and HCL, the market conditions for our main products remain positive. Starting with SPPC and sulfuric acid. Supply-demand and pricing for each of ultra-pure, regen and merchant are positive. Ultra-pure continues to be sold out and we've been able to achieve higher pricing over the last few years. We expect that North American demand for ultra-pure acid will continue to grow, and we are contemplating how we can best meet this growth. Regen demand based on refinery production of alkylate also shows growth. Regen contracts are multiyear, but as they come due, they are being renewed at higher base pricing. Finally, merchant acid price has improved and continues to improve. Pricing continues to move up, although we do not capture all this increase as we share improvements with our by-product suppliers under our risk-sharing arrangements. Turning to water. As we've previously noted, alum price is also increasing as the market has stabilized and raw material costs are no longer increasing. We expect improved margins in 2020, although a more modest improvement than we saw in 2019. Finally, I want to provide some color on sodium chlorate. The North American sodium chlorate industry is expected to operate at utilization rates of close to 95%. We have a significant portion of our chlorate pricing contracted for 2020, and we're able to achieve price increases in excess of cost increases. Now we don't talk a lot about our EC, electrochemical, business in Brazil, but there have been some developments that are worth mentioning. Our key customer there is the world's largest pulp producer, Suzano. During 2019, in response to reduced demand from China, Suzano reduced the output at the pulp mill that we supply as this mill is not the low-cost mill in Suzano's network. Suzano recently announced substantial investments in this mill to reduce its cost structure. We believe that until these investments are concluded over the next couple of years, they will continue running at reduced rates. Once those investments are completed, we expect the mill to run at high rates. As a reminder, we have a long-term fixed U.S. dollar margin contract with Suzano. But while our margin per ton is fixed, we do bear volume risks. Given the nature of the Brazilian electrochemical industry, we have a limited ability to sell products into the open market. So while we expect an earnings drag from Brazil in 2021 and '22, the long-term prospects for this business are bright. Switching gears to 2020. We expect that our businesses will continue to execute well on aspects within our control. However, there are several aspects that will affect EBITDA this year. We listed these issues in our 2020 guidance released at the end of January. But here's a quick summary. First, in 2019, there were fewer plant turnarounds for our plants and those of key customers that affected us than there were in 2018. That won't be quite as favorable in 2020. The key additional turnarounds are the biannual turnaround at our North Vancouver chlor-alkali facility and a major turnaround of about 60 days at a key refinery customer that takes place once every 5 years. While that refinery is shut down, our associated regen plant is also shut down. As you've been hearing all year, lower cost prices in HCL and netbacks have had a negative impact on the EBITDA we generate. We are still bullish on these markets, but not anticipate any immediate improvement. Our guidance for 2020 lists a number of assumptions. A key assumption is that our 2020 average caustic soda price will be lower than the 2019 average. Our assumption is that 2020 average IHS Northeast Asia caustic price index will be $15 per ton lower than the 2019 average caustic price index. This index value, while not directly linked, is a key variable in establishing Chemtrade's selling price for caustic soda. While we've assumed lower average caustic price in 2020, this would still be higher than the prices at the end of 2019. The market continues to forecast that there should be a modest improvement in caustic pricing during the second half of 2020. As I said, we remain bullish on the medium- to long-term dynamics for caustic pricing. And the most recent update for IHS for Taiwan contract caustic pricing predicts increasing pricing every year from 2021 through 2024, which is far -- which is as far as they predict. For perspective, the forecast pricing for 2024 is roughly $240 per ton higher than the forecast of this year. Obviously, these comments are caveated by the comments I made earlier about the effect of the virus, which is having, so far, unquantifiable effects on what people's predictions or assumptions are. Finally, in this business, we're assuming there will be -- there will not be a recovery in HCL demand from higher netback -- from the higher netback fracking industry. The amount of realized netback revenue is typically higher from the fracking industry than from the industrial market. However, the industrial market is less cyclical. To increase demand stability, Chemtrade added more industrial customers partway through 2019. Thus, the 2020 guidance includes a full year of lower realized netback revenues as compared to 2019. If fracking industry demand does increase, we can realize on this upside, but we are not assuming that will happen this year. We want to end our call with a comment on our distributions, as we've received a number of questions on our distribution policy, particularly in light of our 2020 guidance and current yield. As you know, at our current unit price, our yield is in the double digits. We have a history of not decreasing distributions based solely on a high yield. On the other hand, if we believe that the underlying business cannot sustain our distributions, we make the appropriate capital decision and reduce distributions to a sustainable rate. We last took that step in 2007. Following the release of our 2020 guidance, our unit price decreased, and accordingly, our yield increased. Simplistically, if you take the midpoint of our EBITDA and other cost guidance, you will see that our distributable cash roughly equals our annual distributions of $1.20 per unit. We believe that 2020 represents a trough for our business. We are currently enduring a low point for caustic soda pricing and HCL demand from the fracking industry and a higher-than-average level of turnaround activity. Despite that, as outlined, we believe there's considerable upside in our earnings potential in the future. In other words, we believe that the business will generate sufficient funds to sustain our distribution as it has for the last 13 years. Additionally, we maintain ample liquidity and have no covenants or other restrictions that hamper our ability to maintain our distributions. We'd like to thank you for your attention. And operator, Rohit and I will now be pleased to answer any questions.

Operator

operator
#5

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Joel Jackson from BMO Capital Markets.

Joel Jackson

analyst
#6

I have a few questions a few at a time. First, I just want to reconcile some of your commentary between SPPC and WSSC. So you see sulfuric acid prices rising across the complex, if I heard that right. But then in water, do you think that raw material costs aren't rising, although I thought acid is one of the means to water treatment. Can you just reconcile that?

Mark Davis

executive
#7

Yes. The short long story, right, is, is as you know is acid is a regional market. And there's markets that are by-product supplied and markets that are sulfur burner supplied. Sulfur price has actually decreased and the acid that we source in our water business is a combination of by-product and sulfur burned. So the acid that's actually linked to sulfur prices likely cheaper than in other regions? But I think you take it all in aggregate is from a big aggregate view, raw material costs have stabilized in the water business.

Joel Jackson

analyst
#8

Okay, that's helpful. Then my second question would be, you've called out generally risks on the CN strike and coronavirus here in the first quarter. Can you help size a bit, I mean, I understand sizing coronavirus impact is impossible, but I'm asking anyways. Can you give some order of magnitude of what that could mean in Q1 and Q2? What your best guess is right now on the 2 issues?

Mark Davis

executive
#9

I won't give you a number because I can't, right? I'll tell you 2 things, okay. First, on the rail blockade because that's one of the things we called out is, as I've said is to date, okay, the extra costs, and there have been extra costs, are not yet material. But if the blockades truly actually stop our ability to move product be as material as the other CN things that we talked about. And again, it depends on duration, overall effect on the supply chain and, frankly, where, right. Is -- probably our worst-case scenario is if somehow we couldn't ship in and out of our Vancouver facility, since actually that facility in and of itself makes a lot of money. But that's probably the lowest probability effect of the rail. So a nonanswer for you is I can't quantify it because I don't know how to, right? Let me just finish the coronavirus and then we can circle back, right, is the coronavirus, again, is -- there's people that have actually abandoned guidance based on the coronavirus to be able to quantify the coronavirus effects. I think from our perspective, why we can't quantify it. And I -- we've said that in our remarks. We think the biggest effect on us is what happened to caustic soda pricing that moves on that index that's actually instructive on our pricing in Western Canada. And the question that I can't answer is will the virus and the effect of the virus affect which side of the chlor-alkali business more in Asia, as we said during the terms. So I don't know if chlorine demand goes up or down vis-à-vis caustic demand. And that's why we can call it out as a risk, but we just can't quantify it.

Joel Jackson

analyst
#10

Okay. And then -- that's helpful, I guess. And my last question...

Mark Davis

executive
#11

I'd be happy for you to quantify it.

Joel Jackson

analyst
#12

Yes. Well, if I qualify then no one can. Just my last question is, again, on the dividend and the payout ratio. So if we assume over the next few years, little to -- little or modest commodity price improvements across the complex. What would kind of be the average payout ratio? Because you -- obviously, you have turnaround ebb and flow be at North Van, be at customers. So are we talking about low growth -- low commodity price growth scenario of an average payout ratio of 90%, 85%, 80% to 90%. How would you quantify it?

Mark Davis

executive
#13

So if you're assuming no commodity price increase or material including our chlor-alkali business, it's -- we haven't done the numbers, but I'm going to say it's 90%, all right?

Joel Jackson

analyst
#14

And if that was the case, it's 90%, that's enough to sustain the dividend in your mind?

Mark Davis

executive
#15

Well, 90 is less than 100.

Joel Jackson

analyst
#16

So I'll take that as a yes.

Operator

operator
#17

Your next question comes from the line of Jacob Bout from CIBC.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#18

I just wanted to go back to the impact of the rail strike. What is this meant for the chlorine market? Because we've been hearing about chlorine shortages...

Mark Davis

executive
#19

So the -- so is -- we're the wrong guys to actually comment on that. I only can say that -- is -- there are Eastern and Central Canada chlorine producers that the blockades have had an effect on. And simplistically speaking, most of our chlorine wheels out of our gate in Vancouver and head south. So it hasn't really -- so we really haven't been affected. But if you want the Canadian nationalistic perspective is the effect on these rail blockades on the availability for people to get chlorine to purify their drinking water, I got to believe it's awfully hand to mouth, which I don't know.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#20

Okay. And then on the -- I think I heard you say Northeast Asia spot prices for caustic up $50 a ton?

Mark Davis

executive
#21

Well, let me clarify that in a minute, is that this is what we've heard. The indexes do not yet represent it. We've heard it for good reasons because partially, every so often, we do import caustic. So we have a pretty good handle on the price of imported caustic. So the actual index publications haven't shown it yet, but we believe that's what's happening.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#22

So if this is implemented on -- in contract pricing, then how should we think about the impact on EBITDA?

Mark Davis

executive
#23

So you have to -- I would suggest you need to -- if it's up $50 in the first 2 weeks of March, which actually is informative for us for our Q2 pricing, then we should be up some from what -- where Q1 was.

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#24

Yes. But I think that will get us close to the midpoint of our guidance because it did drop off early in 2020. And so this would just -- would bring it to where we expect the Q2 pricing to be.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#25

Okay. Even though you were originally talking about a second half versus a second quarter uptick?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#26

Yes. So second half -- so what happened is -- so this $50 we're talking about is from where it was in, let's say, January. And that was lower than where it was in November. So it dipped down, and this will bring it up to where we expect it to be. The uptick you're looking at is really getting it beyond where it was even at the end of the year.

Mark Davis

executive
#27

Or maybe this helps is, if what happens -- if what we're seeing now is what happens is the assumptions in our guidance remain valid -- remain pretty much bang on. If it's higher than that, is -- that's good. If it's lower than that, it depends how much lower, may or may not be material, right?

Jacob Bout

analyst
#28

Okay. Going to the WSSC division. You talked about alum and PAC price increasing and volumes growing. Can you just help us, order of magnitude, is it like a GDP-type growth on the pricing and on the volumes? Or it's something better than that?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#29

No, I think the pricing should be better than GDP, but we took most of the price improvement in 2019. So we do expect -- as we have opportunities in 2020 to reprice contracts, we do expect some pricing going up. But as raw materials stabilize, it is harder to get a lot of price increase. In fact, frankly, we'll be comfortable maintaining pricing, because we actually expect raw materials are dropping. They stabilized and now the indications are they will likely be going down. So there should be some margin expansion above GDP but not the way it was in -- nothing of the magnitude of 2019.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#30

And then volumes?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#31

Volumes are just GDP. I mean the volume is not that significant.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#32

Okay. And then in the specialty products in that division, we've seen some weakness? How long does that continue for?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#33

So what we had said was they are 2 -- couple of chemicals we had called out. One was P2S5 or phosphorus pentasulfide, which has already shown recovery in Q4 -- in our numbers in Q4. But the other one we had mentioned, the other big one was potassium chloride or KCl. And we had said that because of the particular situation there with a customer who had overbought, it's really more like a '21 -- 2021 improvement. 2020, we don't really expect any uptick there.

Jacob Bout

analyst
#34

Okay. So what we saw in fourth kind of through 2020 then?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#35

For that product. Now we don't break it out in that level of detail, but it's not a bad -- the P2S5 improvement is there, and there wouldn't be much more improvement in the rest of spec.

Operator

operator
#36

Your next question comes from the line of Paul Bilenki from TD Securities.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#37

I'd just like to start out on the large turnarounds that you have upcoming in Q2 and Q4. Are you able to sort of put any numbers around the potential impact of those financially? I think last time in 2015, you had that large regen turnaround, I think you quantified at about $5.5 million. Is that sort of the right range?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#38

Yes, that's right.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#39

Okay. And the North Van is -- would it be something similar? Sort of similar to...

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#40

Yes. Because I think last time what we said was when we had the outage, it was closer to $12 million, but that was at a very high caustic price. And so now we expect about half of that.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#41

Okay. And I guess, just sort of hypothetically, and following on all these rail blockade questions. If there is a blockade that impacts the North Van facility, are you able to move forward the timing of that maintenance turnaround at all?

Mark Davis

executive
#42

No.

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#43

No.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#44

No? Okay. That's the set.

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#45

It's very hard to get contractors and everything lined up to -- it's pretty hard to move.

Mark Davis

executive
#46

It's not just our guys turning cranks here. We bring in people and you have to preorder equipment you're replacing. And it's...

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#47

It's a big production.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#48

Yes. Fair enough. And I guess you've done a lot of work on operational improvements in the last couple of years. What are your areas of focus on that front in 2020?

Mark Davis

executive
#49

Well, is -- we focus on all of it. But I mean -- but to give you the 2 big things we're looking at, is actually, we're going to look at additional production efficiencies and whether or not that's actually utilization of raw materials or increased reliability, anything that actually helps us reduce cost per ton produced. And secondly, we're going to be looking for additional logistics chain efficiencies in cost savings.

Paul Bilenki

analyst
#50

And how far along are you through the shedding of the railcars at this point?

Mark Davis

executive
#51

We're -- we've shed the majority of them. Now actually, we are fine-tuning and affect -- and expect to be able to actually realize additional cost savings in 2020, whether that's by shedding additional cars or using those cars more efficiently is, it's going to depend on how we line out our supply chain. But the big step change was made during the year. But we're going to find other cost-saving opportunities going forward as well.

Operator

operator
#52

Your next question comes from the line of David Newman from Desjardins.

David Newman

analyst
#53

You said something in your formal comments on a couple of issues. First of all, you mentioned the drag in Brazil. I would assume that the drag is pretty much what we're seeing right now and that would be what we could expect in 2020? Is that where...

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#54

Yes. I think that right now I think we obviously believe that once Suzano completes its investments it's announced in that facility, that will reduce the cost and it will start to go back up, but that's going to take a couple of years to sort of go in the right direction.

Mark Davis

executive
#55

It's probably the same in 2020 and 2021 is our guess, right? It depends on how quickly they put the capital in.

David Newman

analyst
#56

And Suzano got off-site on their inventory and now sort of flushed it through the system. Could there be any knock-on benefit for your sodium chlorate business?

Mark Davis

executive
#57

Yes. But it's all dependent on that particular mill site. So if they decide to run that one harder, clear benefit.

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#58

Now keep in mind, we've talked a bit about the COVID-19 virus, and Brazil. Brazil's biggest market for pulp is China. So we have to see what the effect is going to be of Chinese demand consumption because that could be a -- that's a new factor, right?

David Newman

analyst
#59

Yes, yes. No, for sure. And then on ultra-pure, you made some comment about maybe perhaps considering plants there? Is that involve investment? Or what are you thinking?

Mark Davis

executive
#60

Yes. Is -- look, is we're the largest market share supplier of ultra-pure acid in North America. We want to continue to grow with our customers. We expanded our Tulsa facility, maybe 5 years ago. We've gotten extra capacity out of some of our other facilities as we continue to look for the most cost-effective way to provide additional volume of the quality required by the market. So it will require investment, but that's a business that we like. We are the market leader and we intend to remain there.

David Newman

analyst
#61

Any thoughts on how much that could evolve, Mark?

Mark Davis

executive
#62

It could either be a little or it could be a lot. Is -- the investments at our existing plants are probably not large numbers, right? If you assume that $10 million is not a large number because most of our plants have been tweaked and prodded. If you build a new ultra-pure plant, it's $100 million plus.

David Newman

analyst
#63

Okay. Yes. And then on your costs. Your corporate costs, they were a little bit lower than the recent run rate of $13 million. Any puts and takes there? And what do you think the sustainable corporate cost should be for 2020 on a quarterly basis?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#64

Sure. So I mean there -- the way we look at corporate costs, there are 2 elements to it. One is kind of what we look at as program expenses and the other are incentive compensation expenses. So if you look at our Q4. Now we don't break it out for you quite like that. But if you look at Q4, our program expenses are very much in line. Our incentive compensation, as you'd expect, are low, even though my remark is bit confusing because I said that they were higher than 2018, but in 2018, we had reversals in our LTIP accruals, which actually made the expense negative. So we're comparing off a very unusually low number. So anyway, I cut the chase and tell you that what you should expect as an annualized run rate is about $65 million to $70 million.

David Newman

analyst
#65

Okay, very good. And then just on the blockade. Had you guys anticipated -- I assume this was not anticipated in your guidance for the midpoint and it sounds like the $15 below gets you to -- on cost gets you to the midpoint such that -- or if you get to $50 back, you get to the midpoint. So if it remains at current levels and how do we anticipate the CN rail blockade into your numbers. I know it has not had a material impact. Would that -- could we presume it be in the bottom end of the range though?

Mark Davis

executive
#66

Yes. What's your number for the CN rail blockade. That's the hard part, right? If you ignore the CN rail blockade, is we're still in the range, right?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#67

For the CN blockade, the hard thing is we ship vast majority of our products by rail and not all of it is Canada. But you also get raw materials. So the blockade is just so difficult to predict because they've -- for example, 2 days ago, one strung up in -- somewhere affecting Manitoba and then that was -- next day was pulled down. And so it's just very difficult to quantify the impact because you just don't know how long, where and what plants it's going to affect. But in most cases, we don't have alternatives that are viable.

David Newman

analyst
#68

Yes. And you need the $50 increase in caustic to get you to the midpoint of your guidance, correct? Just to clarify.

Mark Davis

executive
#69

No. We'd be a little careful is what we have for the year of 2020. We are actually $15 below from 2019, right? And we're expecting price increases in the second half. So forget about the $50 thing that we said, for a minute, okay? Is we're expecting price increases in the second half not in the first half, right? So the $50 that we talked about, which you guys have all jumped on, okay, is really -- which is fine. It's really an indication that at least as of today, it looks like the effect of the virus is resulting in an increase in spot caustic pricing. I don't know if that's the case tomorrow and I don't know if it's the case 2 weeks from now, right? So we thought we'd try and give some color that at least as of today is that's what's going on. But our guidance is based on getting price increases in the second half of the year, right?

David Newman

analyst
#70

Okay. And last one for me, guys, is just on -- with the Superior Plus' terminated sales process. I know, obviously, different chemicals whatnot. But is it indicative to you that maybe the potential sale of your specialty chemicals that you have on the block might be more difficult to move?

Mark Davis

executive
#71

No. But a longer answer is I won't describe ERCO's business, but the business that actually we have on the block is a true specialty and has significant growth potential that, as we said at the time, we think someone who's more in that business might be more capable of realizing on that growth potential than we are. I don't think you would actually use that description to describe the ERCO business, but that's a description of our business.

David Newman

analyst
#72

Are you seeing any interest, Mark? Anybody kicking the tires?

Mark Davis

executive
#73

Dave, if you read my press release, it says I'm not going to comment on the process until I can comment.

David Newman

analyst
#74

Okay.

Mark Davis

executive
#75

That was a nice try.

Operator

operator
#76

Your next question comes from the line of Nelson Ng from RBC Capital Markets.

Nelson Ng

analyst
#77

First question is just a bit of a clarification. So in terms of the turnarounds expected this year, they'll mostly be in Q2 and Q4. Is that correct?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#78

Yes. Just to be clear, we do turnarounds through the year, but the 2 ones you're calling out would be Q2 and Q4.

Nelson Ng

analyst
#79

Okay. Got it. And then in 2019, I think the nonmaintenance CapEx was about $14 million or $15 million or so. What's the expectation for 2020 in terms of the nonmaintenance CapEx?

Rohit Bhardwaj

executive
#80

It's going to be way lo, maybe $3 million, $4 million. It's not anything of that magnitude. Those ones we were doing actually related to the businesses we are selling for the large part. And which is why to -- Mark's answer about that, those are growth businesses. We've put the capital into those businesses so that they will grow. So yes, 2020 is back to minor CapEx.

Nelson Ng

analyst
#81

Okay. So just like $3 million to $4 million. So does that imply that there's going to be pretty limited, like organic growth CapEx -- that $3 million to $4 million is going to be considered organic growth CapEx? Is that the right way of looking at that?

Mark Davis

executive
#82

Yes, that's -- I'll give you the 2 or 3 different ways. Is -- we call our $80 million plus assessment and you needed to keep on the lights, right? But every time we spend a dollar, we expect that actually that dollars do more than actually just do what it has done before. We should get incremental -- minor incremental improvements out of that, but we don't try and quantify it, right, because that's just part of day-to-day running the business or we haven't tried to quantify it outside. There are 2 other things actually that are different -- is -- one is, as I mentioned, is if we could find the right opportunity to invest money to generate more ultra-pure acid, we will do that. So that would be a difference. But other than that is -- those are really our organic CapEx right now.

Nelson Ng

analyst
#83

Okay. Because I know in the past, you made some more investments on the water side. I'm just wondering whether those opportunities are still available or not?

Mark Davis

executive
#84

They might be but we first want to actually -- we've built those plants. Now we want to actually sell them out and make sure they're absorbed by the market. And then we can make that decision again. If you go back -- I'm sorry for those that have heard it before, right, is the workhorse coagulant has been and we think will continue to be alum, but we think there are specific circumstances where PAC or ACH something else is actually -- does better. We now have those facilities where we want them, and we'll have to wait to see how the market develops to determine whether or not anymore is needed. But right now, I think we have what we need.

Nelson Ng

analyst
#85

Okay, great. And then just one last thing in terms of rail. So in the last quarter, I guess, it was mostly like -- you're mostly impacted on your, I guess, Western Canada portion in terms of like west of Ontario. So if we see any rail disruptions on the west side of Canada, we should expect a larger impact compared to the east. Is that a fair way of looking into that?

Mark Davis

executive
#86

It's awfully hard to say that just because the rail line is so interrelated. If you have a specific issue, for example, in the Vancouver area, if that's west, then for sure, that affects us. But just because something happened -- doesn't happen out west doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect out west. And as -- and I guess, one question is, for example, is, is Brandon Manitoba out west or is that Central Canada? But the main point actually is, is the whole rail system is a bunch of interrelated lines. And if you have troubles anywhere, you have to wait and see how far of an effect that has. So you can't just look at western issues.

Operator

operator
#87

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Hansen from Raymond James.

Steven Hansen

analyst
#88

Just a quick one first on the distribution, if I may. In a scenario where things were more difficult for longer, how long would you need to see your distributable cash sit below your distribution commitments before you'd contemplate some sort of move? It's maybe a hard question to ask. But if you look back to your 2007 time frame, is sort of -- is that's the way we should think about it? Or how do you think about it today relative to then?

Mark Davis

executive
#89

It's not a hard question to ask, it's just a hard question to answer. Is -- my recollection back in 2007 as we went, I think, like 9 months, so there is no time frame -- is -- conceptually is, we don't like burning liquidity for no good purpose. But if we have a belief that actually the business is going to generate sufficient cash to sustain our distribution then our inclination is actually to continue paying our distribution. Having said that is -- our distribution is a Board -- obviously, a Board-level topic. It's allocation of capital, and our Board considers it every month when they distribute it. And if we're running higher than 100% distributable cash for a period of time, the Board takes that into consideration and takes a look forward on what we think the business can generate. And then we make that decision. But there is no hard time for us.

Steven Hansen

analyst
#90

Okay. No, that's fair. And maybe just another hypothetical on the same point is, in a scenario where you did contemplate a move, would there be opportunities for you to -- outside of just paying down debt, but would there be opportunities to recycle some of that capital into other growth opportunities that are obvious? Or would it just be a debt paydown focus in the short term? I'm trying to get a sense for your perception of the growth opportunities that might be out there that you can act on today given less capital available.

Mark Davis

executive
#91

Yes, I'll answer it 2 ways, right, is -- one is -- and as I said -- or let me start by saying we're not contemplating this. So it's your hypothetical, okay?

Steven Hansen

analyst
#92

Entirely.

Mark Davis

executive
#93

Is -- if you cut the distribution in half, you say $50 million a year directionally, right? So it would take a while for that to cause a deleveraging effect sufficient, I think, before you're back in the acquisition game. On the other hand, if you actually did that, it's a -- it'd be a fine cash to attribute to growth in a ultra-pure facility, which something within our control and exercise. So is -- again, getting to your hypothetical is I think, actually, that takes -- that starts taking you down the path that the business model can be replicated, which is actually buy businesses and integrate them and optimize them. But you need to cap the structure to do that. So...

Steven Hansen

analyst
#94

Okay, great. No, that's a helpful rundown. And just one more if I may. It's just on the sulfuric acid market here domestically and you've given some good commentary for the different verticals. But it does strike me that the international markets for acid have been a little bit weaker to start 2020 for a number of different reasons, but you're still feeling pretty confident about the domestic market opportunity on the merchant side and what that brings for 2020?

Mark Davis

executive
#95

Yes.

Steven Hansen

analyst
#96

Is there something driving that specifically that can help us understand that?

Mark Davis

executive
#97

Well, yes, if we just go back in it, actually, it's things I talked about before, is -- acid market is regional. It depends on the acid individual supply-demand characteristics in each region. Is -- Baldoon has actually now been shut down, which takes some supply out of it. And as you know, the international acid really kind of when it hits, it really only hits the shores and it has to go into a tank, then you need rail cars and trucks to get it anywhere. So the number of regions that a weakness in offshore acid would affect is not where we place most of our acids.

Operator

operator
#98

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Endri Leno from National Bank.

Endri Leno

analyst
#99

Most of my questions have actually been answered. Just a very quick one. In terms of the legal reserve and has there been any developments in terms of -- I think you'd commented before there were some derivative actions outstanding. Has there been any movement, and you could have any time lines for those to be resolved?

Mark Davis

executive
#100

We still continue to work through those and hope to resolve them this calendar year. But there's been nothing material that changed since the last call.

Operator

operator
#101

There are no further questions at this time. I turn the call back to the presenters.

Mark Davis

executive
#102

As usual, thank you all for your attention, and we'll talk to you next quarter.

Operator

operator
#103

That concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

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