Clariane SE (CLARI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Clariane Third Quarter 2025 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to Sophie Boissard, CEO. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to review Clariane's revenue for the first 9 months of 2025. Today, together with Grégory Lovichi, the Group CFO, we will take you through the key highlights of the period, the drivers of our 9-month performance and the progress achieved on our refinancing and debt reduction road map. We will close with the outlook for the remainder of the year and beyond. On Slide 2, let me start with the main highlights for the first 9 months of 2025. Clariane top line momentum accelerated in Q3, reaching plus 5.1% organic growth. Year-to-date revenue growth is plus 4.9%, fully in line with our guidance. All our activities and geographies have been contributing to the top line performance. Long-term care, of course, with an average occupancy rate, which reached 90.8% over 9 months, 91.6% for the third quarter, which means an increase of 90 basis points versus previous year. In the Specialty Care segment, we are seeing continuous progresses on the case mix and the pricing management, reaping the first fruits of the action plan we initiated in France to adjust to the new regulation framework. Lastly, as for the Community Care segment, which actually covers mainly the Netherlands and France, the growth reached the high single digits, supported by strong demand for home care-like solution and shared housing. Second highlight, we have completed the plan to reinforce our financial structure, which represents a major milestone for our group. Our EUR 1 billion asset disposal program is now finalized 6 months ahead of schedule with an average multiple for the transaction of around 14x '24 EBITDA. In parallel, we were able to successfully issue a EUR 500 million unsecured bond, including a EUR 100 million tap closed early August and to fully repay our revolving credit facility. Regarding our '25 guidance, we are confirming both our revenue target at around plus 5% organic growth and our holdco leverage ratio target at below 5.5x by year-end. When it comes to our earnings, we expect EBITDA pre-IFRS 16 and pro forma of disposals to grow around plus 10% in the second half of '25 versus '24 to be compared to the decline of minus 4.1% recording in the first half. EBITDA margin should, therefore, reach around 12% for the second half, benefiting from the gradual ramp-up of the cost reduction plans initiated on the central and operating structures, mainly in France and Germany. Based on these various factors, full year EBITDA pre-IFRS 16 and pro forma of disposal is expected to increase, albeit below the initial range of plus 6% to plus 9%. As we enter Q4, our ambition and priorities at Clariane remain unchanged. We are more than ever focusing on the improvement of our operating performance, and we expect to see the full effect of the actions undertaken in '25 in '26. I will now hand over to Grégory, who will take you through the detail of our 9 months revenue performance by segment and by geography as well as the completion of our refinancing plan. Grégory, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Sophie, and good afternoon to all. So let's start with the top line. So the group revenue for the first 9 months of 2025 amounted to EUR 3.9 billion, up plus 4.9% on an organic basis, fully in line with our annual guidance. Reported growth was plus 1.1%. The difference between reported and organic performance is due to the impact of disposals in 2024 and 2025 as part of the plan to strengthen the group's financial position, restated for real estate revenue and the revision of expected income from the reform of healthcare activities in France. Looking at our activities on an organic basis, all segments and geographies contributed positively. In long-term care, which represent around 2/3 of our revenue, revenue grew plus 4.7% organically, supported by strong occupancy and continued price adjustments. Specialty Care rose plus 3.2%, showing the gradual recovery in France after the new SMA post-acute rehabilitation activities, tariff reform and robust activity elsewhere in Europe. Finally, Community Care achieved plus 9.4% organic growth, driven by strong demand for home care and shared housing solutions. Geographically, performance was equally balanced. France was up 3.4%, Germany up 8.2%. Belgium and Netherlands were up plus 5.1% and Italy was up 2.4%, while Spain was up plus 6.4%. Overall, this broad-based balanced momentum reflects both higher volumes, plus 1.2% or EUR 47 million and trade and case mix effects of plus 3.7% or EUR 138 million, offsetting the expected scope impact from our disposal program. This bridge illustrates the main drivers of our plus 4.9% organic growth over the first 9 months of the year. Starting on the left, we generated an additional EUR 47 million from higher volumes equivalent to plus 1.2%. this reflects both higher occupancy levels in long-term care, particularly in Belgium and the Netherlands. We'll return to that and increased outpatient activity in Specialty Care, mainly in France and Spain. Community Care also contributed positively with continued network expansion in France and Germany. Next, price and case mix effects added another EUR 138 million or plus 3.7%. This increase was largely driven by tariff adjustments in Germany and France, additional pricing momentum in Spain and Italy and ongoing rebalancing of case mix in our health care activities. Price remains the main driver of the top line growth. This positive drivers were partly offset by the EUR 109 million negative perimeter effect or minus 2.8% linked to the planned disposal completed in the U.K., France, Italy and Germany, including [indiscernible] as well as a few smaller sites closures. Finally, other effects amounting to minus EUR 33 million or minus 1% reflect the temporary impact of the French health care tariff reform in Specialty Care and the end of the real estate development activities at [indiscernible]. Together, these elements bring up to EUR 3.976 billion in revenue as of end of September 2025. This performance confirms our solid momentum across all networks and activities underpin by steady occupancy, price adjustments and disciplined portfolio management. On the Slide 9, if we focus on long-term care, occupancy continues to rise quarter after quarter. The average rate stood at 91.6% in Q3 compared to 90.7% in Q3 '24. To note, the occupancy rate improved by a full point over the sole third quarter. It reached 90.8% for the first 9 months of 2025, up nearly 1 point from a year ago despite the saver flu season early in '25, impacting France mainly and up 2 points on Q4 2023. This improvement demonstrates both the resilience of demand and the quality of our offer. We still have growth potential in bed in existing capacities and the ongoing rollout of [indiscernible] shared housing facilities in France. On the Slide 11, let's take a closer look at the third quarter. Revenue for Q3 2025 came in at EUR 1.320 billion, up plus 1.8% reported and plus 5.1% on an organic basis, confirming the acceleration we expected in the second half. All activities and regions contributed positively. In Long-Term Care, revenue rose plus 3.3%, driven by a further rise in occupancy to 91.6%. In Specialty Care, activity rebounded strongly, up plus 6.7%, thanks to case mix improvement and operational adjustments implemented earlier this year. And in Community Care, growth remained robust at plus 11.7%, supported by sustained demand in home care and shared housing. Geographically, this acceleration in organic growth over the third quarter is visible in France. It reached plus 4.7% versus plus 2.8% for the first 6 months of the year and in Germany, where organic growth grew to plus 8.8% versus plus 8.1% for the first 6 months of the year. On the Slide 12, this bridge shows the main factors behind our plus 5.1% organic growth in the third quarter on top of plus 1.8% reported growth. Starting from the left, revenue rose from EUR 1.297 billion in Q3 last year to EUR 1.320 billion this year. The first element, volume effects added EUR 13 million or plus 1.1%. This reflects stable activity in long-term care with higher volumes in France, offsetting small decreases in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany and continued growth in Specialty Care and Community Care. In Specialty Care, volumes were up EUR 9 million, mainly from outpatient activity in Spain, France and Italy, while Community Care contributed EUR 5 million, driven by higher demand in France and Germany. Price and case mix effects were again a key driver, adding EUR 49 million or plus 4% on the quarter. These gains came primarily from tariff increase in Germany and France, improved case mix in Specialty Care and stronger pricing in Community Care, particularly in Germany. Offsetting these positive drivers, the perimeter effect was EUR 41 million or minus 3.3% linked to the final disposal completed during the summer, mainly [indiscernible] in France, along with smaller transaction in Italy and Germany. All in all, these combined effects explain our strong third quarter revenue of EUR 1.320 billion, confirming the steady acceleration of our activity in the second half of 2025. Turning to our financing. I'd like to underline that Clariane has now restored its access to the debt capital markets following the successful completion of the EUR 1.5 billion financial strengthening plan 6 months ahead of schedule. In February 2025, we signed the amendment and extension of our syndicated facility for a total of EUR 625 million, extending in maturity to May '29. This includes a EUR 300 million term loan and a EUR 325 million revolving credit facility together with a new EUR 150 million real estate credit line with the same maturity profile. Then in June, we successfully placed a EUR 400 million unsecured bond, which was increased by EUR 100 million in August to a total of EUR 500 million maturing in June 2030 with a 7.875% annual coupon. The transaction was more than 3x oversubscribed, attracting strong demand from leading French and international institutional investors. It followed the successful extension of our bank facilities and the completion of the disposal program. The proceeds are designed to refinance debt falling due well ahead of maturities and to strengthen our liquidity position, not to fund new CapEx or distributions. Altogether, this action give Clariane long-term financial visibility, a broad investment base and a solid liquidity position supporting our continued deleveraging trajectory. I now hand over to Sophie.

Thank you very much, Grégory. Let's move now to the outlook for '25 and for '23-'26. So looking ahead to the second half, our operating performance continues to improve quarter after quarter. In '25, our main target was to finalize the plan to strengthen the financial structure of the group, and that major milestone has now been reached, well ahead of schedule and in favorable conditions when considering the 14x average multiple transaction attached to the disposal plan. With that behind us, we expect the second half of the year to benefit from our 4 key drivers. First driver, the completion of the disposal plan and the streamlining of our portfolio. Second driver, the increase of the volumes across all geographies in the major network as well as in the recently opened facilities, namely in the Netherlands and also in Spain. Third driver, the positive development of the pricing, notably in Germany, which will bring more fruit in the last quarter. And fourth driver, the active management of case mix in Specialty Care, namely in France. As planned and already mentioned in H1, we have also started a cost reduction plan covering both central functions and operations. This cost reduction program aims to adapt the group cost structure to its new scope post disposal, to reap the fruit of the digital transformation we initiated 2 years ago and to take into account the new regulation and market environment in France. These various initiatives, which include a social plan in Germany and required extensive discussions with the workers representative are now ramping up. We expect the full effect of the program to materialize in 2026. In this context, as I pointed out in my introduction, we are confirming both our organic revenue growth target of around plus 5% for '25 and our holdco leverage target at below 5.5x by year-end '25. When it comes to earnings, we are expecting the EBITDA to increase over the second half of around plus 10% to be compared to the minus 4% recorded in the first half. Pre-IFRS 16 EBITDA margin for the second half should reach around 12% with the ramp-up of the cost reduction plan initiated in France and Germany. The full year EBITDA pre-IFRS 16 and pro forma of disposal is expected to increase, albeit below the initial range of plus 6% to plus 9%. Let us now come to the outlook for '23-'26. So to wrap up, our ambitions and priority for '25 and beyond remain unchanged. We expect to reap in '26 the full benefit of the actions implemented over the year in terms of pricing, in terms of portfolio management and in terms of streamlined cost base. As I said, the actions started in '25 will already deliver tangible results in the second half, and they provide us with a solid base for a further margin acceleration. So moving to our midterm outlook. We expect our EBITDA margin pro forma of disposal and excluding real estate development to improve in '26 by 100 to 150 basis points versus '23. with a leverage ratio below 5x and of course, an average revenue organic growth of plus -- around plus 5% over the period. All this is supported by a continued and renewed focus on quality within our facilities and network with an NPS that is to remain above plus 40 as well as a strong focus on health and safety at work with a targeted reduction in the frequency of workplace accidents. Our midterm goals reflect the balance of our strategy, a stronger financial foundation, a disciplined operational focus and a continued commitment to care, quality and responsibility across all our networks. On this, I would like to thank you for your attention, and Grégory and I are now ready to move on to your questions.

[Operator Instructions]

Sophie, Grégory, thank you. We have quite some questions regarding what has changed and the reason of the change in the EBITDA objective for 2025. So would you please explain what has changed since end of July?

Yes. Thank you very much for the question. Actually, what has changed since end of July is a slower ramping up of the various cost reduction measures initiated. What are these cost reduction measures? It is they are about reducing the scope of our central functions in the larger countries, Germany and France on the back of the disposal program. So we have just signed with our unions a social plan on the headquarters in Germany. So this has been signed this week, and we were expecting this to happen a little bit earlier in the second half. And the second major part of it is the adjustment of the operating organization, namely in the Specialty Care segment in France. So on the back of the new regulation, we have initiated a very wide plan to adjust the working organization clinic by clinic. And we decided to give a little bit more time to the discussion with the workers' representative at the clinic level in order to secure a safe lending for each and every facility and not to jeopardize the quality of activity in those clinics. And this, of course, costed a little bit more time than expected but brings us a strong basis for a smooth and continued swallowing of the new regulation framework for the specialty care in France. So all those combined lead us to a little bit lower expectation in terms of EBITDA increase over the year but will place us on a pretty solid EBITDA margin on the second half. That is also a solid basis for the year to come '26 and beyond.

Thank you, Sophie. There is a follow-up question regarding this saving and cost plans. Would you please give us some numbers?

Yes. Thanks for the question. And like we just mentioned, some discussions are still ongoing, as already mentioned. And it's still too early to provide numbers and figures on these programs. Nevertheless, we will do it on due time, especially to explain what are the numbers behind the cost reduction measures that are already embarked and the full effect will be visible in 2026.

Yes. And if I just give you a little bit more flavor on the Specialty Care. So this is definitely the most of the plan. It is about reducing the supervision rate. So the number of FTE for 100 patients according to the new tariff and financing framework. So we came basically from above 84, 85 FTE average to something that is now 99, 78, and this is actually where we want to be. And so we are progressively adjusting the supervision rate. So this ratio of FTE versus the patient. So it gives you the magnitude. We are actually saving something that represents 6% to 10% of the average FTE that we need to provide the care quality. So it comes with a lot of reshuffling of various tasks with some digitalization, of course, and also a new structure for the planning, for the time planning of the caregivers. Of course, this with a very high level of expectation in terms of quality and specialization of the care. So that's basically for the operating transformation. And on the central cost, it comes very much with the digital transformation on several transactional services, accounting, billing. And this will -- this comes, for example, in Germany with 170 FTE less on the overhead. This is what has been just signed and agreed some days ago in Germany.

Thank you, Gregory. Thank you, Sophie. The next question is still regarding H2 2025. You expect around 12% EBITDA margin, quite flat year-on-year. For which country do you expect EBITDA margin to be better or lower?

Yes, so 12% is not flat. It's higher than H2 2024 on a pro forma basis. That's the first point. And then when you look by country, higher margin and leading the way is more on the Germany that is improving the margin compared to last year in 2024.

Thank you, Gregory. The next question regarding guidance in 2026. Can you please remind us the basis of your objective of plus 100 to 150 basis points EBITDA margin pre-IFRS 16 in 2026? And what is the basis of reference? And what are the drivers of such progress?

So thanks for the question. Again, so the improvement is on the timing between 2023 and 2026. As part of the full year 2025 result publication early next year, we will provide the pro forma basis, sorry. That means including the full asset disposal effect. Just as a reminder, in the second half of the year, we have still approximately EUR 150 million to EUR 200 million disposal already secured but still under finalization. And this disposal will have obviously an effect on the pro forma. And this, we will be able to provide it, like I was mentioning during the 2025 full year result publication.

Thank you, Grégory. The next question is regarding the change in the outlook, but there is no change in the expected leverage. Would you please explain why this change of outlook in the EBITDA has no consequences on the leverage level?

What we say, so we confirm the leverage ratio of 5.5x by the end of '25 and below 5x by the end of '26. And this element on the leverage ratio is coming from this EBITDA but as well the plan to reinforce the capital structure that provide us well confidence on the other side on the leverage ratio, meaning on the debt to confirm this guidance on the leverage.

Thank you, Grégory. The next question regarding the French Specialty Care. You've mentioned the improvement that you were expecting regarding the case mix. Could you please elaborate on what did happen in Q3?

Yes. The actions we have undertaken on the enhanced case mix are definitely starting to bring -- to bear fruit. When we started the year, we were with an average case mix, today price around EUR 106, then we actually reached a first plateau at EUR 117, so per invoiced day and per patient. And we are currently navigating at a small EUR 120 for -- as an average level. So it all shows that the way we account for the care and service we provide and also the quality and integrity of what we are doing is more and more reflected in the billing. So this gives us a lot of confidence that we are now having a good level of control and understanding of this new funding and that we can also support our clinics and facilities to go for the right specialization, the right level of mix in terms of care and specialization. And so this will be reflected also beyond '25, '26 and in the years to come. This will, of course, as I said, be one of the drivers of further margin improvement. So it's about not only increased volume, volume are increasing, especially in the outpatient but it is definitely about an enhanced mix of activity that is supported with the right understanding of the regulation framework.

Thank you, Sophie. Next question will be regarding your CapEx expectation for 2025 and 2026.

Yes. Maybe on the CapEx expectation on 2025 and 2026. As you know, we guide around EUR 300 million CapEx in both this year, the split between maintenance CapEx and CapEx to develop of around EUR 200 million. So we expect to remain in this area this year and as well next year.

Thank you, Grégory. Regarding next question is, do you have any disposal -- additional disposal plan after the success of the one that has been achieved in July?

There is no major disposal to come. We have, of course, a regular review of our portfolio, and we are looking at really all the noncore -- the remaining noncore facilities. So that's some additional very small size disposal could come on the back of the completion of the real estate assets that are, as Grégory recalled, still to be exited. But for the rest, I think we have now a pretty stable platform in terms of geographies and segment with actually 2 main universe, the elderly care one and the specialty care one. And the 2 universe are actually traveling with underlying increasing demand and a good development in terms of mix and additional pricing.

Thank you, Sophie. I think we have a few questions online. So please, operator, can we take those questions?

The next question comes from Constantine Gumanida from [ Curex Capital. ]

Congrats on a good set of results. So I guess I have a few questions maybe on revenues first. So Specialty Care, I think we can see it's inflecting meaningfully in the second H sort of along the lines of what you said on the last call. I just wanted to confirm, is this inflection in line with your expectations? Or is there potentially more to go? And in the same category, I recall on the last call, you mentioned there is some potential legal action that you're pursuing to recover some of these lost revenues. Could you perhaps comment a little bit on the status of that, please?

Yes, on the first part of the question, the case mix is evolving in line with our expectations. So it's very much what we expected to see on the case mix side. On the lost revenue, there is no major news to share today. We are still in intensive discussions with various counterparts. And as you can imagine, with all what happened in France in the recent weeks, these discussions are intensive but a little bit slow in the lending. But I mean we still have strong cases. So we will get, I hope, what we are asking for. It just takes some time.

Okay. Understood. And then in Germany, I think on the last call, you said that there is a lag between sort of cost inflation, which was front-loaded and then revenue growth or pass-through, which was more back-ended. So are we already seeing some of that inflection in pricing in Germany in Q3? Or is this more of a Q4 element? Can you comment a little bit on that, please?

You are seeing actually 1/3 of the effect. The most of the effect on the repricing are still to come. We have more than 100 negotiations still open on the repricing with pretty good visibility on the lending, and this will be fully then reflected in '26, of course.

Okay. And can I on sort of the guidance, just to make sure that we're looking at the right numbers. So I think you said on the last call that the starting pro forma number for 2024 is EUR 5017 million in terms of revenues. So I think the guidance that you have for this year, the 5% this year and 5% next year, is it applied to that number? Or is it applied to a different number? So that's on revenues. And then equally, the EBITDA guidance of, I guess, plus 100 to 150 basis points on top of the 12% and change in 2023. Is it applied to the first number that I just mentioned?

I think on the number and the guidance, Constantin, what is close to the guidance is what we have mentioned in the H1 results where we see on the 2025, we were mentioning pro forma of EUR 5 billion approx EUR 5.7 billion of revenue total '24. Obviously, on this '24, and this is what was mentioning at that part, we still have some adjustment due to the disposal ongoing to make it more accurate. But again, when we mentioned it, the EUR 5 billion something and the EUR 555 million for '24 on the pro forma is a good basis. It will evolve, and this is what I was trying to mention earlier on. We will provide during the full year 2025 publication more accurate number based on the finalization of the...

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Robert Watkins from Chepstow Lane Capital.

A couple for me. Just the first one on the organic adjustments you make on the revenue side. Part of that adjustment reflects expected changes in the French health care regulation. So can you give a bit of color in terms of how you actually make those calculations and determinations that feed into that organic revenue growth number?

No. What we mentioned on the organic adjustment was more adjustment that has been already done in the first semester after on the tariff reforms. It doesn't imply any change in the future was not to rebate and to be able to compare apple-to-apple in '25 versus last year but has no impact on the regulation on the pricing, let's say, moving forward.

So to be more specific than that is what the Specialty Care kind of case management. I don't quite follow what exactly the anticipated adjustments or adjustments that have already taken place that you're then feeding into this number.

It was impacting, and this is what we've mentioned in June during the con call. It was an adjustment made in June based on the finalization of what was the tariff we received for the year before. And eventually, we didn't receive the full amount. So we correct it, and this is what we call organic so that we are able to have a comparable basis. And again, we have a pro forma. So this is not something that has an impact going forward. It's more to compare existing, and we have adjusted by the end of June numbers in 2025.

Okay. Got it. And second question on occupancy in the French LTC segment. A data point you gave at the last set of numbers indicated, I think, 90% plus, maybe 91% occupancy recovering from a kind of bad flu epidemic in Q1. That number seems to have stepped back a bit in the intervening months. Can you give a bit more explanation in terms of what you're seeing on the occupancy side?

Yes. Actually, on the occupancy side, no, we have been -- we have seen continuous growth over July, August and September, which is actually a pretty good recovery from the low coming from the flu epidemic. So that's actually -- so for us, France is delivering according to the expectation over the third quarter.

But specifically in the French LTC segment, I think you gave a higher data point than what was the Q3 average. So it must have been stepped backwards in the intervening months. Is that not correct?

You mean what I mentioned in my introduction. In my introduction, this was the average Q3 for all geographies. So not only France but covering also Italy and Belgium and Germany and so all the LTC segment across the 6 geographies. I mentioned 91.6% over the third quarter, which is actually the average occupancy for the Q3 across the 6 geographies.

Yes. Okay. I mean my question was just about France and its long-term care segment occupancy, which seems to have stepped backwards from that July data point you gave, but maybe I need to go back and check that. And then last question, just...

Maybe just to confirm, it was on the press release. On the year-to-date, the France occupancy is 88.1%. And on the third quarter, it's 89.5%. So you see the third quarter in France is higher the year-to-date. It means that we have this recovery quarter 3 on the France LTC market.

That too, [ Ben, ] I understand what you are alluding to. It is true that the highest point reached over summer was above 90% with a lot of short-term stays happening over summer season. So we see those kind of cycles on, I would say, on a normal basis in France, and we will see the seasonal stays restarting to increase as the Christmas and winter holiday season will come nearer.

Okay. And then just final question in terms of what from your perspective, you are seeing on the political side in terms of a likelihood of a budget being passed this year? Or does it seem like it's going to be slipping into next year? Kind of how are you guys seeing the setup for the budget passing and what that means for your business?

It's a good question. I'm not so sure I can provide you with 100% certainty on this. What I can just say currently, what is under discussion at the parliament hasn't -- does not provide any major change for long-term care or for specialty care. So that's for the discussion for the new budget. an alternative if they are not able to find an agreement on this basis would be to come back to the '25 budget provisions. So we are -- and this is also the reason why we are working on cost reduction plan and will be streamlining our organization. We are equipped to navigate whatever, I would say, the budget discussion will lead to. And I don't expect this to jeopardize our overall regulation universe. Just be aware that we are operating in similar conditions with the public hospital, public nursing homes. So there is a kind of good referencing of the segment because we are providing essential services and the public structure or non-for-profit structure are also exposed -- would be also exposed to significant cuts in the funding or significant increase in the staff cost framework. So that's basically what I can say. It is actually -- we know how to navigate with what is currently under discussion.

Thank you, Grégory, Sophie. We have one last question, which is, do you have any update on upcoming maturities, i.e., the OCEANE or the ODIRNANE and the terms?

Yes, I will take that one. So on the -- maybe on the maturities and on the debt, what is important to have in mind that like I was mentioning earlier on, we issue a bond and rated bond this summer of EUR 500 million. This EUR 500 million bond maturing 2030. Coming back to your question, OCEANE, as a reminder, our maturity is Q1 '27. So this bond has a maturity -- longer maturity than the OCEANEs. By the way, I remind it you know it but when we issue the bond, we fully undrawn and released the revolving credit line facility at the end of this announce its fully undrawn. And on the second part on the ODIRNANE, we are working on all the topics. And obviously, this instrument like ODIRNANE. We don't make any comments as on the previous quarter on the ODIRNANE. What we have in mind as well, and it's important to remind it is that the SFA and the documentation we have with the banking pool prevent repaying hybrid instruments such as ODIRNANE with cash or debt if the WC ratio is above 5x. I think it's important that we have this in mind.

Thank you, Gregory. Sophie, if you have some final remarks to make.

Yes. Thank you very much, Stephane. So I would like to actually highlight 3 takeaways. First of all, the underlying momentum of our activity is a good one, be it on the long-term care segment or the specialty care, which gave us some headache in the previous quarters with the total reshuffling of the regulation framework. So that's for the revenue side. When it comes to the earnings and margin evolution, we are taking a little bit more time to do the cost adjustment. We plan to -- in order to secure a soft landing from a social dialogue and with our workers' representative in Germany and mainly in France, we don't want to take any risk in the current environment in France by actually going too hard and too fast on this cost basis adjustment. But we are very clear about the lending on this streamlined cost basis, be it on the central shared services or on the operational structure. This gives us pretty clear visibility on the second half performance in terms of EBITDA and enable us also to have also a good visibility on what we are going to deliver in '26 in terms of earnings and margin. So that's what I would like to highlight. And last but not least, of course, we have done an intensive work on the financial structure of the company to strengthen it and to contribute to the deleveraging of the company, and we are confirming our target in terms of holdco leverage for '25 and also directionally for '26 according to what we said previously. Thank you very much for your attention and happy, of course, to answer follow-up questions, if any. Thank you very much.