Clean Energy Transition Inc. (GDO.F) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, everyone. This is Sean Samson from Rogue Resources. Thank you for joining. This is our 11th call with investors. After we received strong feedback from past calls, we want to continue being good, transparent managers of your company. So we do this by outlining what we plan to do, and then we keep you posted as we progress and move forward against that plan. I'm working off of the slides that were posted on the Rogue Resources website yesterday at noon. So hopefully, everyone has that same 26 slide deck. That's what we're working through today. Slide 2 is the dial-in numbers [indiscernible] interest from around the world for these calls. Slide 3, we have this e-mail set up. We have a number of questions that have come in already from investors. If things come up on this call, please send them in, and we will try to address them. So that's me, Sean, on the left. So that's me, Sean, on the left, Slide 4. Joining me on the call is my colleague, Paul Davis. Together, we run Rogue. And if you want more detailed biographies between us and then also our Board, you can talk in the appendix. Slide 5, typical legal statements, which should be reviewed in conjunction with the information we will share on this call. And then getting into the capital structure and portfolio, Slide 6. So we have about 35 million shares outstanding for the company, which values us presently at about $3.5 million for the equity value. Management owns roughly 10% of that. And then if we more broadly take the definition of friends, family and advisors, we're about half of the diluted shares. Major shareholders include high net worth investors. Importantly, we do not yet have any large institutions that are in the stock. Alongside our equity, we have done a bunch of debt financing last year. So this is from us getting into the Stone business. We have $1.8 million of corporate debt, which will -- is coming due later this year, 2021, where we pay interest only on that at 12%, and that's guaranteed against all assets of the company. Then we have vendor debt, $700,000 of vendor debt with our partner on the Bobcaygeon Stone Quarry, which is due even out to 2023. We pay 4.5% on that. Payments begin starting with profits from that -- from the Bobcaygeon Quarry. And then finally, we have the equipment financing in place for the fleet for the Stone business, where we pay a relatively low rate, averaging about 4%. So Rogue Resources, the portfolio has 3 large parts to it: the Stone business, then the Timmins assets and also Quartz. We'll talk today primarily about Stone, but we're also going to get into some developments in Timmins and Quartz as well. So Slide 7, this is one that we continue to show on our investor calls. These are the criteria that we use to assess the assets in the portfolio presently and then also for additional assets we've been looking at. The key thing we look at is we want to make sure that assets can be in the money or be making money at various ups and downs of the price cycle. So this is part of the way as well that we're looking at are currently nonoperating assets in our portfolio. We want to make sure that we have businesses that we are taking on, which we can see a path to cash flow within 3 years. The Rogue team will experience that running businesses to make money as miners, and that's what we plan to do with Rogue itself. Then starting to talk about our assets, Slide 8, beginning with Rogue Stone. We have 2 producing quarries, where we sell limestone for landscape stone. Those 2 quarries are the Johnston Farm Quarry and Bobcaygeon, which we own 85% of. That is permitted for 20,000 metric tons per year. We began operating that at the end of 2019. And then also the Speiran Quarry in Orillia, which is on the same permit size, 20,000 metric tons per year. That one we took it on, it has been in continuous operation for more than 25 years. Rogue began operating that from March of 2020. That's our Stone business. We're going to speak about that over the next few slides. And we're excited to be able to say that since launch now, Rogue Stone has sold more than 20,000 tons, and we've made more than $1.5 million in sales. So things are going well on the Rogue Stone business. Slide 9, we thought of initiating this for folks who may be new to the story. What we mean by limestone for landscaping is we have 3 different product types that come out of these 2 quarries. We have armour stone, step, and then flag stone. And the primary difference between these 3 broad product categories is the height of the stone itself. So our quarries are set out like large layer cakes, which we did a bunch of drilling -- diamond drilling on them before acquisition and that allowed us to model up at each of the quarries what layers that are going down in the quarry itself. So the thickest layers come out as armour stone and then step and then the thinnest layers are flag stone. And each of those 3 are our products. Slide 10 shows them out in sort of the real world. This is a slide that I use, which is actually from my neighborhood in Toronto, where you can see armour, the thicker stone; the limestone step, which is [indiscernible] either built on top of each other to be able to make staircase of sorts; and then for the flat areas you have flag stone. And then broadly speaking, across those 3 product categories, we have 2 different ways they go out, either we put them directly from the ground, shape and then on to a flatbed in bulk format or we shape them and then stack them on a wood biscuit and then water them all together. That would be the skidder. And if you think about our product pricing, this was an illustrative on the right-hand side of Slide 10. Our least expensive product, but our highest volume product is the bulk armour stone, which basically has the least touch that goes on. Then when you've got the thinner level that come out of step or the thinnest level that come out of flat, those are sequentially more expensive in terms of what we price them at when they go out and bulk. And then all of them are more expensive to our customers when we put them on to skids. In addition, we have a per skid charge that we add on top. So at a high level, that's generally how we think about our product pricing. So our least expensive price product, our least expensive product is the bulk armour stone. And the most expensive on a per ton basis is flag stone that gets put on a skid. So because we know the different layers, and Paul is going to speak a bit about that, across what's in our quarries, we have an idea of what our product mix will be between flag, step and armour. And then we also have, based on what we know from our customer demand, the difference between the bulk and the skidders. And with the variance across product types that also, and we'll speak a bit about this a little later, it influences the seasonality. So what our average dollars per ton sold is -- will, of course, be driven by what our product mix and then what our split between bulk and skidders is. But we'll come back to that when we get into the numbers in a few slides. Slide 11, I'll speak now a bit about the demand. We stepped into the landscape supply business in late -- in 2019. But then 2020, last year, there has been, even with COVID and the home improvement trends that strengthened through COVID with folks stuck in their home quarantine and the continued access to cheap credit, you had a strong boom in renovation more broadly and then more specifically within that landscape in itself. Of course, people may have read in the papers that with the renovation boom, there have been lumber and labor shortages across the sector. Also, as you think about infrastructure, there is a component of our business, which is -- goes beyond just general landscaping and goes into infrastructure projects and specifically around shoreline rehabilitation. We've got a couple of neat photos on this slide. The top left, that is a project that we supplied through last year all of the stone, top left on Slide 11, came from our quarries. And then it's a nice contrast to the bottom right, which is one of many dissolving shorelines, especially around the Great Lakes with a real change in the water level that have significantly influenced folks who live on shorelines across North America with the Great Lakes because of the damage that shoreline falling apart has done. So what that leads to is huge amounts of sort of pent-up demand for especially governments when they want to get serious about uprising the shoreline. So we anticipate going forward that government spending, which we expect to be part of the general economic stimulus that helps North America out from post pandemic, we anticipate that, that will be good news for the ongoing demand for limestone for landscape supply. In addition, as we're trying to read signals from the incoming administration in the U.S., they have said how -- with what will likely be corporate tax increases, they are going to be able to tie those back to infrastructure and green energy investments. So we think that there'll be a lot of positive things that are going on to continue to keep this strong demand market going for limestone for landscape supply. Slide 12 is a bit more of this. There are lots of folks saying about what they think is going to happen with demand going on from across the landscaping business, interesting quote there about as homeowners specifically continue with their connection to their living landscape, they'll be investing in maintaining their outdoor spaces. And if that comes, more dollars that go into investing in hardscapes and natural stone where we are. As I try to figure out what a good comparable would be for supply into the landscape business, there's an interesting company in the States called SiteOne Landscape Supply, which trades on the New York Stock Exchange. They have been consolidating garden centers across North America. We crossed paths with them where they have acquired some competing stone yards and garden centers to ones that we sell to. Now SiteOne plays at 4 verticals, and a big part of their business is rolling hardscapes into the garden centers that they consolidate. They've seen significant growth from these businesses that they have been rolling up because of the strength of the landscape supply business. And if I think about a pure play comparable for a landscape supply company in 2020, the stock tripled. So it has been a very strong market in landscaping. We are seeing it with the strong sales that we have been able to have. It's interesting to look at SiteOne, which is a pure play on landscape supply, which is a good comparable to the Rogue Stone business, and we're playing in the same pool. And they're doing quite well because we have this general tailwind of demand for landscaping because of COVID, but then also because of the infrastructure spending. Now I'll hand off to Paul, who can talk a bit more specifically about our natural stone.

Thanks, Sean. Yes. Look at Slide #13, which we're already on. The limestone for landscape quarries are a simple extraction business that do not require any drilling or blasting. We have no need to bring in outside contractors to expose or extract our material. Each quarry is a layer cake, as Sean described, of the various products. Now we have the opportunity to model these different layers or beds from our due diligence drilling that we completed prior to acquiring the projects. And as we move forward, the operations are now confirming the modeling that we have completed and the products are coming out as we had planned. These natural layers within the limestone can be separated with an excavator or a loader with forks. And you can see in the middle picture there, with the loader carrying a large piece of our step material that was extracted from our Orillia quarry. Larger pieces are then broken apart into desired size and shape depending on the customer requirements, which you can see in the photo on the top right, which is the photo also taken from Orillia. All of the anticipated production will come from limestone beds within a few meters of the quarry floor. Remediation of quarries in Ontario is really straightforward. We pay a royalty into the provincial reserve fund, and then progressive rehabilitation of the site as we extract material is a requirement of our license. Sean mentioned before the different products and the types of packaging. These different products are found at different horizons, and a single layer will generally produce the same style of product across the entire quarry. Again, we are seeing this from our drill core, and it is included in our quarry models. As an example, our step and our 10-inch layer, we've been extracting that layer at Orillia for the past 10 months when we still anticipate several years of production from those layers. Once sized and placed on a skid, if required, the project is loaded directly onto the load trucks and off to customers for delivery. And you can see examples of the loaded trucks on the bottom right picture on the Slide 13. So that's how the quarries are modeled and how the stone is quarried. Let's talk now about how we staff and equip each operation, moving on to Slide 14. So as you've heard, each of the 2 quarries is permitted to produce 20,000 metric tons or a little over 22,000 short tons. And when we're setting up the teams and fleet for each operation, we considered those requirements. The core teams that we have at each quarry will include 4 equipment operators and 2 labors. Each operation will run a large excavator, 2 loaders and a mini excavator. The labor is focused on creating higher value skidded material. This is the -- and this is the operational setup we used this past season, and we plan to keep to grow into our permitted production of 44,000 short tons of limestone products across the 2 quarries. And just as a quick discussion, a short ton is 2,000 pounds and a metric ton is 2,200 pounds roughly. So there's 10% more in a metric ton than a short ton. So that's how it works. Now let's talk about our experience over the past year, and moving on to Slide 15. Operations at Bobcaygeon started immediately after we closed the acquisition at the end of 2019, and then we're up and running in really last March. Things were going along well and the ramp-up was then, like everything, we were hit with the pandemic, which suspended our operations. We had our operations suspended for about a month as we wanted to make sure we could safely operate and have the protocols in place to protect everyone at site. Also during that period, we worked with our lenders to get some additional time in participating in some of the government support programs that were being offered during the pandemic. When we restarted the quarries in April, we were able to operate at full steam. And based on the accounting rules, we declared commercial production across Rogue Stone on September 1, 2020. As Sean mentioned, we've now sold more than 20,000 short tons of product that made more than $1.5 million in sales. I'm proud of our operations team. We are delivering on the plan, and we believe Rogue Stone is becoming a predictable cash flow generator. Now it's good -- to discuss the results so far, I'll hand it back now to our interim CFO, Sean.

Thank you, Paul. So playing a CFO role, I'll talk about our reported sales numbers now on Slide 16. So as we disclosed this week, our November and December sales were pretty strong going into the winter. On a per ton -- on a tonnage basis, they almost matched what we had last quarter in the summertime push. You'll see on our dollars per ton at $72, we're a bit below the $80 that we're averaging last summer. But that was all predicted because we have more armour stone going out this time of the year. So again, based on our product mix, that's what either drops or lifts our average dollars per ton sold. In terms of how we're tracking so far for the Rogue fiscal year 2021, which will wrap up in April of this year, I think we're on track for coming in with a good average of, let's say, $75 in value for those tons. And then we were at this last quarter, in terms of our cost to produce being around $40 per ton. And I suspect that will be similar over these past 2 months and then with the January numbers on top, so when we come out with our third quarter 2021 results. Generally speaking, the way we see the business is that we bring in top line about $75 on average per ton and it cost us about $40 per ton to produce that. So again, what we plan to do is continue to grow our tons sold and get that up to what Paul is referring to, that full permitted value of 44,000 tons per calendar year. So as for 2 quarries, each with an annual production of 20,000 metric tons or 22,000 imperial or short tons each. Within the year, there will be some variance across months and seasons. But again, we hope that on an annual basis, we'll come away with $75 per ton in value for those tons, and then $40 per ton in cost to produce them. So as for Stone business, things are going well. Let me now jump to touch on the remaining portfolio, specifically on the Timmins assets. I want to talk a bit about the Langmuir Nickel Project. So Slide 18, as we announced this week, we plan now to separate Langmuir into its own subsidiary. So the Langmuir Nickel Project is a high-grade, almost 15 million pounds and at 1% nickel indicated resource. And it's on a massive land package, 9,500 hectares of land. It's 25 kilometers southeast of the major mining town of Timmins, and it's 7 kilometers by road directly east from the Redstone Mill. Now Redstone is a mill owned by Northern Sun Mining Corporation, which is a private company, and they are permitted to process 2,000 tonnes per day at the mill. So by us creating this wholly-owned subsidiary, the intention here is to facilitate potential strategic moves and give us the flexibility to do things. Now why you want to do this, and this is similar to what we touched on with our last investor call in the fall, is on a couple of fronts. We've had a huge run in the nickel price. So based off of the move from the 2020 low in March of last year to last week, we're up almost 2/3. So it's been a huge gain for the value of nickel itself. Then you have a couple of comparables, which we have discussed with investors. And the 2 that I have in mind are Class 1 nickel and Canada nickel. That's the Alexo-Dundonald Project and the Crawford Project. So 2 projects in the Timmins camp, one would be a high grade with a grade comparable to our indicated resource, and with the new indicated resource, we came out with just before Christmas, they have 27 million pounds versus our 15 million pounds. And their land package is -- it's about 20% of ours. So it's a small footprint, a resource that is less than double our size, yet the valuation from the market is $90 million of equity value. So that is a pretty blazing example of an investment story that investors are in and interested with the boom in the nickel price. And another one which is sort of being a high-grade, 1%, is a low-grade resource, which is the Crawford Project, where Canada nickel is working 5,600 hectares or so. And they have a larger resource, but at 0.26% nickel that would be relatively unique for a start-up nickel producer. If you ever get nickel out the ground with a 0.26% nickel grade, was pretty unheard of before. But that being said, the market has rewarded Canada nickel for finding that 0.26% nickel with what seems to be a very strong public valuation of $183 million. So those are kind of the 2 bookends of what you can find. You can find high grade at something like 1% in the Timmins camp. We have some of that with our initial Langmuir resource. Class 1 have that as well. And then you've got low grade of 0.26% with the Crawford Project. And we think that with Langmuir, the combination of the starter resource that we have with Langmuir W4, with the 15 million pounds of nickel in the ground, and then the very large land package, we're very excited about the potential for Langmuir. And we want to be able to have as much flexibility as possible, and that's why we have decided to drop it down into a wholly-owned subsidiary because of the run and the value of the nickel price and the what seems to be investor interest in potential nickel investment stores. So that was a development for us on our noncore assets, so out of Timmins with Langmuir dropping into a subsidiary. Now I want to talk about some work we've done recently on our Quartz business, specifically the Ontario project, Snow White. So Slide 20. What we've done is we have cut the cost of what Snow White -- kind of how much it costs for us to wait and get Snow White into production. So again, Snow White is our permitted Quartz project located west of Sudbury near Massey, Ontario. So this remains on hold. And again, have investors evolve the story? No, we are waiting for improved quartz markets, specifically the silicon metal market and, hopefully, from that customer orders. So in cooperation with the project's option holders, we've made 3 changes to the agreement. This is what we announced this week. So we had a payment that was due at the end of last calendar year for $120,000, and we have converted that and made a payment of $10,000 plus $200,000 of shares in Rogue. The other 2 changes we've made included that we had annual $80,000 payments going out at the end of the next 2 years. We have amended those to the share payments for $16,000 in shares. Also, the $500,000 of royalty, once we're up into production, we have front-weighted that a little bit for them, where instead of being $1 per tonne on the first 500,000 tonnes produced, we've shifted that to be $3 per tonne on the first 100,000, and then the remaining $200,000 paid out on the next 200,000 tonnes. So again, Snow White is a good quality asset with the ultra-low impurities. We have buyers that are interested in the Quartz. It's just a very choppy market right now in their businesses for the silicon metal business. And we hope that when silicon metal markets improve and we continue to be working on this very regularly, we can get Snow White and Silicon Ridge in Quebec if we can get it permitted that goes into production and have ourselves a mute business with the Quartz. So thinking more generally, Slide 21, about our portfolio. And as we look at the potential impact of climate change, what seems to be the thread that holds together each of our 3 parts really seems to be our position into the climate change. When you think about the Stone business, I touched on this earlier, with all of the shoreline rehabilitation and the requirement to buttress shores, our Stone asset, we anticipate, is just going to become more valuable with that in mind. So if infrastructure spending increases, we anticipate that the value of these big stones to help with those infrastructure projects should go up. In addition, if you think about the huge forecast demand for electric vehicles, looking at what we have with Langmuir, we basically have a high-grade nickel sulfide deposit close to a mill, which positions us well if these forecasts for nickel demand related to electric vehicles begin to come to fruition. And finally, as we think about the 2 quartz deposits we have in the ground. So quartz like ours goes into making very good quality silicon metal. That goes into aluminum alloys, which are used for lighter and stronger car bodies, which is how a big part of the world goes against trying to lower emissions from the tail pipe and by the weight of the car body. And then also upgraded silicon metal like what you would create with quartz from the Rogue quarries, that goes into solar panels for power generation. So I'm very happy that the deposits we have in the ground include the high-quality quartz that goes into lighter stronger car bodies and solar panels. And the nickel we have in the ground will need to be fueling that electric vehicle boom. And the limestone that we have at our Stone quarries is going into infrastructure projects and specifically shoreline rehabilitation because we believe that as the impact of climate change continues to grow, and I think that each of these 3 parts of our company should be well positioned for that new world. So that's how we think about the portfolio. Jumping now to more broadly how we think about the current valuation. So the investors of all the stock may notice we don't have the usual stock chart slide on earth because it really looks like when you look at the historic share price and all of the changes we've made to the company, it's a difficult chart to look at. We're basically valued incredibly well right now. And the way I think about the valuation of the stock presently would be, first and foremost, we have tight floatation. We have less than 35 million shares trading. Secondly, we are cash flowing out of the Stone business. We're proving that out and it's covering more than its expenses. It's paying for itself plus the company. Finally, we are refinancing the debt we took on, the largest part of the debt we took on. We're going to refinance that later this year. It could potentially lower the cost of that, coming down from the 12% interest to something more in line with the market. And we also hope that we are able to increase the principal value of that debt. Then is this opportunity to further consolidate or continue to consolidate Stone assets in Ontario. So hopefully, we can do that with the leveraged cheap debt and grow the company. And then with all that focus on Stone, it's as though the Timmins assets and the Quartz go along for free. You can look on it that way in terms of where we're trading now and the multiple of the cash flow to the Stone business. It's almost like there's 0 value in the stock presently for the Timmins and Quartz assets. So with the deeply discounted current valuation, we do feel as though there is a significant opportunity there as you come at it from a bunch of different angles. The key point here, though, is someone needs to come to the story. And whether we have -- I know there are some new investors on this call or if there are the sort of long suffering investors who know that stock chart quite well. As additional new money is drawn to the stock and as we continue to have that tight floatation, we would anticipate that a stock tries -- as money tries get into the Rogue stock, it should be driving up the valuation to put it more in line with what we're doing. If that doesn't happen, we continue to pay down our debt, we continue to invest in additional potential assets and then, as I've said in the past, if we're left to the point where we have such an extraordinarily low valuation despite the potential value of the underlying assets, then we would look at something like returning some of that value to investors. So we think it's a screamingly low valuation based on a number of different ways of looking at the stock, and we are just continuing with our head down trying to deliver on the things that we set. Okay. Now we will get into some questions. As mentioned, you can e-mail those questions in. Some have come in early on that call -- on this call. We will try -- we'll add these to the list. But let's get started with some questions right now from investors.

Okay. First one, from a North American investor. Regarding the Stone business, is there a plan to invest up the value chain and get into stone processing? So let me answer that one. So we are always looking at investing into value chain. We're looking at investments in processing similar to how we address potential acquisitions of more quarries where we're coming at it from the perspective of our key customers. And we want to fill in the products that they want. So if we were to buy potentially [indiscernible] so I think this is what this investor is asking about, which would be the -- there will be the equipment that we would break the stone with to further increase our per tonne price that we sell the product up. We have some customers who primarily buy that material instead of the bulk natural stone or the skidded natural stone that we sell. They want the cutback steps or they want more cubical on the stone. So we are working with those customers to understand the size of their demand, what price those products fetch and whether we can get a potential return off of investing in new or used processing equipment. We're also having conversations with our customers, and we've talked about this on past calls about other potential quarries, where I would like to be able to continue filling in sort of pieces on the stone shelf for where if we had customers who buy stone that's deeper or thicker than our 26-inch stone, we have the infrastructure buyers who want to buy in the 30s, so the thickest stone, we are looking at potential projects that could help us with that or other potential projects that have step-intensive or flag-intensive supply. So that's sort of a disjointed response to what we're looking at these are going up the value chain or other potential acquisitions of quarries are doing it hand-in-hand with customers and we are trying to figure out if we can make a business of investment in that equipment or an investment in additional quarries and what the potential return would be for us from those. So next question, also from North American investor. Any long-term view to share about how Rogue will use the Stone business to create return for shareholders? Sure. So we are going to continue delivering on cash flow, that's first and foremost. And as I mentioned, we hope to lever that cash flow to refinance our biggest piece of debt this year. And if we're able to not just refinance to produce our costs, but also potentially to add principal for then we would look at going after additional assets in the stone space, continuing to leverage cheap debt to build out that business. So that is building up the business. In terms of creating a return for shareholders, I hope that us making those changes and making those improvements to strengthen the portfolio should be reflected back at some point in the share price or, as mentioned, potentially handing some of that value directly back to shareholders. So we are head down, trying to add value to the parts of our business, specifically the part that is cash flow and now, we're going to continue to deliver that cash flow and hope to lever it into a larger business. Hopefully, that answers the question. Next one, from a European investor. Do you think there's more nickel at Langmuir? Paul, let me hand that one off to you [indiscernible] nickel at Langmuir.

Sure. Thanks, Sean. The short answer is definitely yes. And that will provide some of the background of why I believe that there's exceptional potential at Langmuir to discover more nickel. Firstly, much of my career has been spent exploring for komatiitic nickels, nickel in Timmins, Australia and Finland. And I've actually worked in the Timmins area for approximately 20 years, specifically in the Shaw Dome where Langmuir is hosted. I also worked in Western Australia, close to Kambalda nickel camp, where in Kambalda you have a series of deposits with a high-grade nickel header, meaning that they grade above 1% nickel, and that they occur in these clusters. When you find 1 deposit along a certain horizon, you can almost be guaranteed that you'll get a cluster of deposits. Past work by Rogue on the area included airborne geophysics, ground geophysics, that identified a number of cluster targets up to 18 targets in 2006. From this geophysical test work, they discovered the W4 deposit, which is the one that we currently have our resource on with about 15 million pounds of contained nickel. Now the most important reason why I believe that there is more nickel at Langmuir is that they've already discovered it. In 2009, approximately 1.5 kilometers to the east of the W4 deposit, they discovered the W2 nickel zone, which contained about 3.3% nickel over 0.9 meters. There is very limited follow-up test work on the zone, and it's still open in all directions. Similarly, at W4, the deposit is still open to depth and can be traced down these Kambalda style komatiitic nickel deposits tend to be like river channels. So if you can picture a meandering river channel with bends, and at the bottom of the river channel you would have gravel, that would be your massive-sulfide and you have to follow these channels to keep defining your nickel sulfides. We've also seen elevated nickel mineralization 500 meters east to W4 and also about 3 kilometers to the south. Our current property package has approximately 20 kilometers of this favorable komatiitic horizons left to test for additional deposits. So I'm quite confident that we would discover additional nickel mineralization at Langmuir. Sean, back to you.

Yes. Thanks for that, Paul. Yes, we are very excited about the potential from Langmuir. As Paul mentioned, this is really in the wheelhouse. And what I believe from my perspective is that the company was getting into some interesting results just as the financial crisis hit back in 2009 or so. So we will be very aggressive in taking a closer look, as Paul mentioned, at the work that we have already done, that's sort of already back in the record and that did become a focus. So your next question from North American investor, any plans for exploring more at Langmuir in the short term? What are the plans for the new nickel shell? And you said before that it's out of the money at these spot prices. What price do you need to see? I'll answer that one. So let me -- I'll start with the last one. So there's what price do you need to see? Let's just say, the higher prices are good news for us, the higher the better. We did take a closer look at Langmuir 18 months ago in terms of trying to figure out the price we needed for W4. And I believe that was up in -- was up higher than $10 per pound. Nonetheless, we don't know yet, but the spot price is to bring Langmuir the money. We do know that increasing nickel price is good news for us to take a closer look at it. And also, as I mentioned before, with the valuation discussion, we think now that it's basically valued by investors at 0. So if we can get greater than 0, it should be an accretive move for our company as we begin to take a closer look and try to put it into this -- putting it into subsidiary gives us flexibility, which allows us the potential to maybe join up with other assets and/or find funding to invest into that and then explore further. But most importantly what we want to do is to leave our options open to try and make something of the Langmuir asset for the shareholders because, again, you think it currently valued at roughly 0 within Rogue. So we don't have any firm exploration plans to kick off tomorrow. Paul is very interested in potentially exploring further. We're going to spend our initial time spending -- going through all the internal records and the work that has been done. But basically, the answer there is sort of watch this space for work that we hope to do with our nickel subsidiary. Next question from a European investor. How expensive is forming this subsidiary? And will it still make sense if nickel prices drop? I'll respond there. So it's minimal cost to subsidiary. And we think it's an excellent return for the potential options that it opens up for us. If nickel price tanks, we'll be back to where we were before. We continue on Langmuir after we put it into a subsidiary as we do now. And importantly, it's not costing us much to make this move. Next question from a European investor. If Rogue makes a spin-off company, how will it affect the outstanding warrants because the price from Rogue may go down if value leaves the company for a new one? So again, no decision whether any spin-off company. We're just going into a wholly owned subsidiary. There likely wouldn't be any change if we were to go down the path of a spin-off. There likely would not be any change in warrant pricing for Rogue warrant holders, but we would need to see if those Rogue warrant holders would be recipients of additional warrants in the spin-off company. So we haven't looked at that in close detail, but that could be what happens if you hold Rogue warrants. They wouldn't be priced on the Rogue share. But that may give the right to those warrant holders to potentially get warrants to the spin-off company, but we need to look at that. Next question from a North American investor. The changes to the Snow White project payment terms seem positive, but does this mean that potential sales calls with new -- with potential buyers have dropped off? And are you more bearish about Snow White now? Let me answer that one. So silicon sales, they are hard. The silicon market is soft right now. We continue following up. We're in a regular communication. One of the multiple things on my to-do list and that's a big part of my job is managing multiple fronts. So I wouldn't interpret the renegotiation of the Snow White terms on a particularly negative outlook for the asset. It's instead probably best seen as a good example of [ partnering ] to get incentives completely aligned. So again, the option holders know well that their big payout, the $500,000 they are repaid, comes from production, and they want to do everything they can to help us get there. So it's of no benefit to either side to sort of put roadblocks in our way to not having us aggressively continue to kind of push the Quartz business, seeing that asset in the production so they can really get paid. So that's how I would interpret it. Next question from a North American investor is an old favorite. Any time line for the MSFP at Silicon Ridge? Timelines. No, no timelines. But again, as I mentioned on our last investor call, since we added our new Quebec-focused Board member, François Cartier, we have been having more meetings on this topic and things are moving along, I would say, at a greater pace over the past 6 months than they had in, frankly, any of my time at the company prior to that. So no timeline, but increased activity on Silicon Ridge. And you will know when we hear in terms of a final view from the ministry. Okay. Another question regarding Quartz from a North American investor. I understand the Silicon Ridge roadblocks, but it seems there's been no progress on sales. Can you provide us an update about the quartz being sold? Hopefully, I touched on that already. Silicon metal market remains soft globally, I should say, outside of China. But hopefully, there'll be some new moves on that. And as soon as the silicon metal refineries are moving again, our quartz will be part of that discussion. So hopefully, that's a bit of a response. Let's jump now to Radio Hill from a North American investor. Any plan for exploration and/or drilling in 2021? And also specifically, what is your VP of Technical think of the GFG results? Of course, GFG are our neighbors at Radio Hill. They are the company that surrounds our land package, and they've been exploring for the past couple of seasons on both sides of our land package. So this question, what is our VP Technical think of GFG and what are the similarities between their best tips, and our targets at Radio Hill? Paul, that's directly for you.

Thanks, Sean. Yes, currently, we do not have any exploration plans for drilling in 2021. Although back in 2017, 2018, we did put together our high-priority drill target so that we do have the areas identified within the property that we think have the best possibility of hosting additional gold. Now what do I think about the GFG results? I think they're quite interesting, and I think that it demonstrates that the area around Radio Hill currently and including Radio Hill have the high potential for discovery of gold mineralization similar to what we see in the other exploration programs in the west side of Timmins. Now if you take a look at GFG, all of their current gold hits fall north of the projected Destor-Porcupine fault zone, which cuts straight across the center of our Radio Hill property. And I do know from diamond drilling that was done on the iron ore deposit that the alteration package and geological package that's associated with that north part of our Radio Hill project looks exactly like the alteration that you would see at either the Naybob Mine or the other mines along the southern extension of the Timmins Gold Trend, with like a bright green fuchsite which is your chrome mica's [ bold light ] quartz. It's just a really beautiful looking type of alteration system, which is reflective of the proper environment for potential gold mineralization. So I think that we are going to continue to monitor GFG. As they explore, they keep coming closer and closer to our property boundaries with additional discoveries. And I'm quite interested to see how that develops over the coming months.

Okay. Here is another gold question from a North American investor. If gold price having run up as far as it has, would you go back and look at Golden Arrow again? So for new followers of the stock of Rogue, Golden Arrow is a very -- was a very promising privately held gold -- permitted gold mine east of Timmins that we had an option to purchase on and then we were unable to get a final offtake agreement with the processor, which forced us to separate from that transaction. I will answer that. We continue to be in touch with the owner of Golden Arrow. They are, we think, on the verge of selling that asset to a midsize producer, a producer that has its own processing. So you can fill in the blanks on that one. So it is -- it would have been a wonderful deal for us to have been able to pull off. We were not able to pull it off because of not getting that offtake step the owner processed. And as you would imagine, in this gold market, a permitted gold resource nearby processing has tremendous value, and I anticipate that we will soon see in the news that, that asset has traded likely for a multiple of what we have negotiated and finalized with them in the past. So that was sort of a strike through the heart, a tough one to look at, but it's good news for the guys selling the asset. And also, I think this is probably not worth much of anything, but at least makes the Rogue management team feel good about having recognized that value early on, if we just could have gotten it across the line. Next question from the North American investor about iron ore, [indiscernible] that's a great deal of money on the iron ore prospect at Radio Hill. So again, that's the project Paul was just discussing about the gold potential, especially with our neighbor. But the iron ore prices we're seeing today, that we think that in the foreseeable future, that keeps them into play as an iron ore project. At what price does it need to be in the money? I'll respond to that. So we do, of course, watch prices. And -- but we do remain much higher than they have presently to bring the Radio Hill iron ore potential into the money. So a similar response to the nickel price. Higher is even better. And iron ore will probably be further away from being sort of in the mine or lucrative as an iron ore project. So again, the way we think of Radio Hill as far as potential gold exploration value versus the iron ore. Despite having a railroad and easy access to power, we still think that today's iron ore prices won't hold up Radio Hill as a potential iron ore producer. Next question from the North American investor, is there any interest in Langmuir shown by the major international metal or nickel companies? I'll answer that. Not yet, it's still pretty small by comparison. So again, as we've discussed, you've got the high grade or the low-grade options. Obviously, the guys pursuing the Crawford Project are trying to get on the radar of the larger companies or the potential takeout play. That would not be the sort of thing that Langmuir is playing in yet. That said, Paul is very interested in the exploration potential of Langmuir Project. It's a massive land package and maybe there are multiple Crawfords or multiple Alexo-Dundonald's that are there. if we were able to find multiple Crawfords, then the answer to this question would change, where we think at that point that the merger -- nickel companies would become interested in our Langmuir project. But for now, it is very low scale as we have the nice high-grade resource, but we have an enormous land package, and Paul is very excited about the exploration potential. So who is to say if that changes down the road. Let me take 1 more question. Here's a good one from a European investor. Why do you think the stock hasn't moved? Okay. That one's on me. So again and we touched on this earlier, we believe -- the clearest way for us to try to deliver shareholder value is to set a strong strategic plan and then deliver against it. So that is really where we remain focused, is in the Stone business, for example, as we touched on, we have a path forward to be able to potentially grow that with expanding into our permit size of existing quarries, on refinancing, potentially investing in additional quarries and/or pieces of the processing value chain. That's how we see the Stone business growing as we're partnering with a big customers on that one. And then as we try to unlock value elsewhere in the portfolio, this nickel, as nickel price moves, we want to drop into the subsidiary Langmuir, so we have some flexibility. And then on the Quartz, we continue to hammer away trying to get permitted in Quebec, trying to make sales more generally. So we're doing all those things, and we're trying to tell the story of how we're doing all those things as broadly as possible. So when do we get some people on to the bid to drive the share price up? We hope that comes. It may sound a little field of dreams, but we're sort of building it and hopefully, they'll come. But our focus is on building it, talking about it and then hopefully, they'll come. So why do I think the stock hasn't moved? Perhaps, we're not telling the story as broadly as we should be. We're trying to do that. Perhaps, people are on a wait-and-see mode to see if the Stone business is delivering, while we continue to deliver month after month in the Stone business. Perhaps, people think that our share price is rated down by the debt that's attached to it. So we are planning to refinance that. It's all in the cards for later this year. But it's in a way, it's sort of lack of all as we're sort of knocking these things down. But from my perspective, again, I come back to why do I think this is an excellent value play right now? Well, we have a tight floatation. I know that. We have cash flow to the Stone business, that's [ proving ] out. That debt, we're going to refinance it later this year. And frankly, we should be able to leverage that into more potential and that potentially going into further Stone assets off of that cheap debt. And then on the whole, you have the Timmins in the quartz deposit -- quartz assets that come along for free at today's valuation. So there's a lot of things that are positive to it to answer the question, why do I think the stock price hasn't moved? Who is to say, we are head down, delivering and trying to tell the story as broadly as we can. And that's the best way I know to getting us towards a higher share price, which as significant shareholders myself and the management team, more broadly those around us. Everybody is aligned, wanting to get that share price up. But the way we're doing it is by trying to build something. So I think that's it for the questions. Again, I appreciate immensely the participation in this call. We are always available if you have additional questions. That e-mail address is always alive, and we're at the end of the line on those if you want to shoot us a question as things move along. We -- and I should also mention that the company continues to be focused, first and foremost, on the COVID pandemic, where we hope that across our investors and broader stakeholder community that people are all safe and well with that in mind. And we do hope that at some point in the future, we are having more regular in-person meetings with our investors, which I know that, that has been a problem for the past 6 months. I feel longer than that, more like a year for the investor outreach. So we appreciate you dialing in, because this is the way information gets communicated. [indiscernible].