CleanSpace Holdings Limited (CSX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the CleanSpace Holdings Limited Half Year Results Conference Call and Webcast. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Graham McLean, Chairman. Please go ahead.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the CleanSpace Holdings Limited half year results webinar for the half year ending December 31, 2025, or H1 FY '26. My name is Graham McLean, and I'm the Chair of CleanSpace. Joining me this morning are the CEO, Gabrielle O'Carroll; and the CFO, Bree Greeff. I will make a few introductory remarks and then hand over the meeting to Gabrielle and Bree to share the key results and highlights for the year. They will then provide detailed information and perspectives on the company's performance during the H1 FY '26 financial period just concluded. At the end of the presentation, there will be time for questions from the audience. [Operator Instructions] And at the end, we will endeavor to answer all your questions. Firstly, I would like to say on behalf of the Board that we continue to believe strongly in the CleanSpace story and the opportunity for growth. This half year result demonstrates steady progress towards our goals and confirms our strategic ambition remains sound and attainable. Our strategy over the last 3 years has been clear and consistent. And during this time, it has developed more focus and delivered greater impact. The growth in the revenue line every half year period over the last 3 years shows a clear upward trend in performance and a growth rate significantly ahead of industry peers. We believe that CleanSpace has some unique assets and capabilities that can sustain the growth path that we are now on. Nothing in the last 6 months has changed our view. This week, we have also announced a change to the accounting for the New South Wales medical device loan, which frees up a potential $2.8 million liability on the balance sheet. And just on Tuesday, we received an $891,000 refund related to the tax -- R&D tax incentive. This news has further strengthened the company's financial position. I would like to thank Gabrielle and all the team for your continued commitment and drive to build the CleanSpace business that we see today and navigating another successful 6 months of progress. And now I will hand over to Gabrielle.

Thank you, Graham, and good morning to everyone joining the webinar. I'm pleased today to report on the company's progress and half year results for the period ending 31st of December 2025. For those of you on the call that may not be overly familiar with CleanSpace, or if you haven't followed us recently, I'll start with a brief summary of the company and the market. CleanSpace is a Sydney based designer and manufacturer of powered air purifying respirators, known as PAPRs for short. The devices provide the highest level of respiratory protection to workers, who would otherwise be exposed to dangerous levels of particulate gas or vapor. We have a global strategy with a specific focus on Australia, parts of Europe and the U.S.A. Within these markets, with a high-quality and experienced sales and engineering team, we work with customers and distribution partners in industrial sectors, including mining, quarrying and manufacturing, where there is a need for respiratory protection of workers. Independent industry research forecasts that the global market for PAPR will grow by a CAGR of 6.75% over the next 5 years to USD 3.8 billion. Within our core markets, estimated global revenues for the PAPR industry are approximately USD 800 million, growing at a CAGR of 5.6% by 2030. The implementation of our strategy is focused on industrial sectors in targeted geographies. Today, CleanSpace has an industrial portfolio built around innovation and market-leading designs that includes 4 PAPR models, with new models in the pipeline. As a result, we've been able to grow significantly faster than the market over the past 3 years. We strongly believe our new product developments will, in the near future, position CleanSpace to capture an even greater share of this growing market. For the first half, we delivered revenue growth of 10% to $10.1 million. As I discussed at our AGM in November, macroeconomic and regulatory events created headwinds for the company in H1. We responded by strengthening our commercial execution, with a clear focus on pipeline development, expanding our distribution network and making targeted investments to increase market coverage and brand awareness. We continue to lean into our value drivers, performance, comfort and compliance, while accelerating R&D development to make choosing a CleanSpace respirator easier for organizations. Importantly, we continue to strengthen the quality of earnings with gross margins improving to 75%, reflecting ongoing operational efficiencies. Our balance sheet also remains strong with cash at bank of $9.8 million, an 18% improvement versus PCP, which provides strong funding capacity to continue executing our growth strategy organically. In terms of profitability, operating EBITDA was down $300,000. However, this represents a $100,000 improvement versus PCP, reflecting disciplined cost management, while continuing to invest in future growth. Cash flow for the half was down $700,000, which is an $800,000 improvement on PCP, and this outflow was largely driven by the timing of recurring H1 expenses. Overall, the trend reflects improved cash discipline and operating leverage. Operationally, we delivered strong execution across several key markets. Europe performed particularly well, delivering 26% growth, driven by improved distributor performance and deeper market penetration. In the United States, our strategy continues to gain traction with expanded distribution coverage and a growing sales pipeline supporting improved momentum into the second half. We also made meaningful progress in product and innovation. During the half, we launched our Data Insights software and mobile app, which strengthens our digital ecosystem and supports customer retention, fleet management capability and long-term differentiation. In parallel, we continue to progress key product certifications, which are expected to support future revenue growth, with new product launches targeted for late FY '26. Consistent with our long-term plan, we continue targeted investment in sales, marketing and R&D, ensuring we're building sustainable growth capability rather than optimizing purely for short-term earnings. We also materially strengthened our global distribution footprint, adding 26 new distributors in H1 and further refining sector focus across priority global markets. From a financial perspective, gross margin performance remained strong and was supported by continuous improvement initiatives across the business. We received an $891,000 R&D refund this month, which will provide additional cash support as we move through the second half. We also recorded a $2.8 million accounting gain from the remeasurement of the New South Wales medical fund loan to nil, which is noncash but improves the reported results. Finally, currency impacts were negligible across the half. Overall, we delivered growth, improved margin performance, managed cash reserves and continue to invest in the distribution, product and innovation capability required to support scalable global expansion. This bar chart highlights a clear and consistent positive trajectory over the past 3.5 years, with sustained revenue growth alongside strong and resilient margin performance. Following several quarters of disciplined cost management and efficiency improvements, we have now shifted toward targeted strategic investment in sales, marketing and R&D to support the next phase of growth. As a result, the most recent period reflects this deliberate increase in investment, leading to softer near-term operating EBITDA as we position the business for longer-term value creation. As our revenues continue to grow, we fully expect to benefit from operating leverage given our high margins. On this slide, I've outlined our revenue by region, as well as revenue from our respirators and consumables. Starting with Europe, this remains our most established market. We delivered 26% revenue growth here, led by particularly strong performance in Western Europe, up 48% and the Nordics, up 42%. This reflects sustained end-user demand and the strength of our well-established distribution network. While geopolitical and trade-related uncertainty continues to affect certain markets, overall performance has remained resilient. Turning to Asia Pacific and Rest of World. These regions represent both our emerging growth markets as well as Australia and New Zealand. Revenue declined by 22%, primarily due to the timing of one-off business wins in 2025 and ongoing regulatory conditions in Australia. Importantly, we're developing a stronger sales pipeline across the region, particularly within mining and markets, and we expect a near-term product launch to help drive renewed momentum in Australia. In North America, we're seeing encouraging lead indicators. Revenue grew 8% in the period and sales momentum is building under the new team, despite the more punitive tariff regime implemented and general macroeconomic uncertainty there, along with NIOSH regulatory-related disruption. Strategy execution is progressing well with expanded distribution coverage, improving brand recognition and strong traction for the CS Work respirator. I will now hand you over to Bree to take you through the financials.

Thank you, Gabrielle. In the summary P&L, the first half reflects continued execution of our industrial growth strategy and strong operational management. Revenue increased by 10%, driven primarily by strong performance in Europe demonstrating the benefit of our established distribution network and the growing end-user demand. Gross margin improved to 75%, supported by ongoing operational improvements, including lower freight costs, quality enhancements and sourcing efficiencies. This highlights the strength and scalability of our operating model. Operating expenses increased by 8% during the period. Importantly, this growth was deliberate and reflects targeted investment in sales, marketing and research and development to support future revenue expansion. EBITDA improved in the period. This was as a result of the remeasurement of the New South Wales Health Administration loan, which positively impacted reported earnings. Overall, the P&L reflects balanced execution, delivering revenue growth and margin expansion while investing in the capabilities required to drive sustainable long-term growth. Our balance sheet remains strong and provides the flexibility to self-fund strategic investments while pursuing market opportunities. Cash, including term deposits, closed at $9.8 million. While this is down from $10.5 million at FY '25, it is up $1.5 million versus the prior corresponding period, reflecting improved year-on-year cash discipline and operating performance. The reduction versus FY '25 primarily reflects the timing of recurring annual expenses paid in the first half. This month, we also received an $891,000 refund from R&D tax incentive, which will further strengthen our cash reserves. Our deferred tax asset position remains robust and is expected to offset taxable profits over the medium term, supporting future earnings and cash flow. Importantly, borrowings related to the funding agreement with New South Wales Health Administration were remeasured to nil, resulting in a gain recognized in the P&L and further strengthening the balance sheet. Additionally, the lease renewal effective 1 July will deliver ongoing cost savings over the next 5 years, contributing to improved operating leverage. Overall, the financial position provides stability, flexibility and the capacity to continue investing in growth, while maintaining a strong capital base. Cash increased to $9.8 million at 31 December 2025, up $1.5 million on the prior corresponding period, reflecting continued improvement in the underlying performance. Operating cash outflow improved materially to $600,000 compared to $1.5 million in the prior period, while free cash outflow reduced to $400,000 for the half. Lease payments of $200,000 represented the primary financing outflow during the period. The company continues to invest for growth while further strengthening its overall cash position. Over the past 3.5 years, CleanSpace has built a strong and improving cash flow profile, supported by several structural advantages within the business. Our performance has been underpinned by sustained revenue growth and consistently strong gross margins, reflecting the quality of our product offerings and disciplined pricing. We have maintained a balance sheet with no recognized debt, providing financial flexibility and reducing funding risk. We have also benefited from carryforward tax losses, which have supported cash retention during the growth phase of the business. At the same time, we have continued to invest in innovation to maintain product leadership, while exercising disciplined OpEx stewardship to ensure operating leverage improves as revenue scales. It is important to note that, as revenue exceeds $20 million, the R&D tax incentive will not be received in cash, but will instead be applied as an offset against future income tax payable. I will now hand you back over to Gabrielle.

Let me now take you through our strategy and outlook updates. As customer needs and regulatory requirements evolve, CleanSpace continues to adapt its operations and innovation strategy to stay ahead of the market. Increasing global regulatory complexity reinforces the value of our technical capability and structured market approach. As such, we're winning share with our differentiated lightweight respiratory devices powered by patented AirSensit technology. As industrial customers accelerate digital adoption, our SMART App and Insights Reports provide real-time compliance tracking, fleet management and actionable safety data with positive early customer feedback. With growing duty of care obligations and changing workforce expectations, demand for advanced respiratory protection is increasing. Our innovation pipeline is progressing well, and we're uniquely positioned to deliver meaningful innovation into the PAPR market in the near term. Following on from our growth positioning, the most compelling validation of our strategy comes directly from customers. Users clearly recognize our technology and design advantage. A consistent theme is mobility and comfort, removing the traditional belt mounted tube system. As one end user said, you don't want a tube running from your belt up when you're trying to do the jobs. That design difference may seem simple, but in high movement industrial environments, it materially improves productivity and user acceptance. In demanding conditions, whether heat, heavy breathing or long shifts, users describe the experience is noticeably better than legacy solutions, saying it feels like fresh air coming in all the time. That comfort translates into higher compliance and repeat usage, which is critical for employers managing safety obligations. Ease of use is equally important. The feedback is clear. Turn it on, you're breathing in, it starts working. No complexity, no technical barriers. Even self-described nontechnical workers report 0 issues. That simplicity improves adoption and lowers implementation friction to our customers. Importantly, our digital capability is now strengthening our value proposition further. A technical manager of one Australian customer described CleanSpace Ultra as an essential part of their safety program, highlighting both reliable protection and real-time monitoring. That moves us beyond the device sale toward embedded safety infrastructure. Overall, the customer voice confirms that our innovation is not only differentiated, it is commercially relevant, operationally valuable and increasingly integral to modern industrial safety programs. Over the last year, we have begun transitioning towards a commercial model that is more structured, measurable and scalable in its approach. While we're still in the early stages of this evolution, the potential upside is clear and encouraging. Historically, pipeline generation was predominantly sales-driven and reactive. It required significant manual effort, was heavily dependent on major trade shows and follow-up processes were inconsistent. We're now actively building a more integrated sales and marketing engine. We have started aligning sales and marketing around clearly defined priority sectors, shifting from broad activity to more focused targeted engagement. Campaigns across e-mail, social content and events are becoming more structured and intentional. Trade show execution is moving from event-based to process-driven. Leads are increasingly captured systematically in the CRM. Immediate follow-up is being automated and progression is being tracked more rigorously. Early indicators show improved lead progression and stronger accountability. We're also implementing tools such as the end user dashboard and integrating marketing into the CRM to improve visibility. While this capability is still developing, it is already enhancing our ability to monitor engagement and take proactive action. The early results reinforce the opportunity ahead. A sector-focused approach is sharpening product positioning, CRM-led discipline is improving conversion velocity and increased end user transparency is laying the foundation for a more predictable pipeline. In short, we're in the early phases of building a data-led scalable commercial engine and the potential to materially improve growth visibility and efficiency is significant. From January 2026, we introduced our first price increase in 3 years, a disciplined step reflecting both market conditions and the maturity of our value proposition. Customer response has been encouraging, with broad acceptance across regions. This reinforces that our products compete on performance, innovation and reliability, not simply price. We expect the increase to support both revenue and margin expansion in the second half FY '26 and to provide a structural benefit moving forward. Importantly, even post adjustment, our pricing remains competitive within the premium respiratory protection segment. This action demonstrates confidence in the strength of our brand and differentiation and it ensures we continue to invest in innovation, while delivering sustainable, profitable growth. For the remainder of FY '26, our strategy remains consistent and unchanged, focused on disciplined execution to deliver sustainable, profitable growth. CleanSpace operates as a low capital intensity business, which provides us with the flexibility to scale efficiently while allocating capital to the areas that drive long-term value, our people, targeted marketing initiatives and continued product innovation. These investments are deliberate and measured. We are prioritizing industrial sectors and high potential geographies where we see clear competitive advantage, expanding our sales and distribution footprint and accelerating our R&D pipeline to strengthen product leadership. By maintaining strategic consistency and disciplined capital allocation, we are positioning CleanSpace to capture additional market share and generate durable long-term shareholder value. Turning to our FY '26 outlook. We are revising our revenue growth guidance to approximately 15% for FY '26. This adjustment reflects a more measured view of timing across certain markets and larger pipeline opportunities rather than any change in our long-term strategy, or competitive position. We know the additional global economic uncertainty generated around ever-changing U.S. tariff and trade policy as well as the potential for broader geopolitical upheaval. Despite these factors, our underlying fundamentals remain strong. We expect gross margins to remain in the mid-70% range, demonstrating the resilience of our pricing, product mix and operational discipline. We are targeting positive EBITDA in the second half and positive cash flow for the full year while maintaining continued cost control discipline across the business. At the same time, we will focus on returning value from the investments we have made in sales, marketing and R&D, consistent with our long-term value creation strategy. Our outlook assumes a stronger second half, supported by continued consistent performance in Europe, product launch plans progressing as expected and no further disruption in the U.S. market. It also reflects the anticipated timing of larger sales pipeline opportunities converting in H2. While we have moderated our near-term revenue expectations, our strategy remains unchanged. We are focused on disciplined execution, strengthening commercial capability and accelerating innovation. We remain confident in our ability to deliver sustainable growth and long-term shareholder value. Thank you very much, and I'll turn you over now to Graham.

All right. Thank you very much, Gabrielle and Bree. And now we will take questions. So just pause for a moment while we check out the questions. [Operator Instructions] So the first one is relating to the U.S. sales team. The U.S. sales team is relatively new and is understandably well behind the sales performance of the European sales team at this stage. What measures have been taken to better support the U.S. sales team and improve their chances of success in the short to medium term? And can you share any goals that you have for the U.S. region? So I'll ask Gabrielle to address that.

Sure. Thank you for your question. Yes, we're at the very beginning of our U.S. strategy. That's absolutely correct. And we would expect the size of the U.S. market that we'll be able to develop it as we have our European business. And so that's really our ambition for the U.S. market. In the interim, of course, we're setting out the building blocks to be successful in the U.S. market, of course, starting by recruiting a very capable team to represent the brand in the U.S. market, and we've provided them with the right level of sales training, development and ongoing support. From here in Australia, we travel out to be with the team and help them in market, but also conversely, the sales leader in the U.S. comes to Australia regularly as well to make sure that he's well tapped in to our initiatives here. We've got R&D projects that are specifically focused for the U.S. market, which will become relevant in time as those certifications are successful and completed. And in the shorter run, I suppose we're supporting the U.S. team by opening up larger national distribution partners for them to work with and to give us broader coverage. We're also onboarding sales agents to give us extended coverage as well across the U.S. states. We also hold inventory in the U.S. in our warehouse in Texas. And importantly, we've made investments across the organization in terms of sales, marketing and R&D, but specific to the U.S., certainly in terms of investment to support trade shows, which really allow the U.S. team to meet with our customers, with distributors and to raise awareness of the brand. So that's been an important investment we've made in the U.S. market. And as well, our marketing tools are very sector specific, so we can really tailor them to the immediate opportunities in the U.S. market and support our team with the efforts that they've been making there and the pipeline that they're developing. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks, Gabrielle. Quite a few questions around the price increase in January. Can you just explain what the price increase was? And have you detected any pushback from your customers in relation to this?

Yes. So the price increase effective Jan 1 was our first price increase in 3 years, and it was in the mid-single digits across the board, across the units and the consumables and across all of our markets. And we've had broad acceptance of our price increase. It was communicated 3 months before the effective date, and it's been broadly accepted in the market and is now flowing through, all of the orders coming in since the New Year.

And just a follow-on from that. How do you see the pricing now compared to competitors?

Yes. I mean, that's an important question. So we are still -- when we evaluate our pricing and our pricing position, of course, we always consider our competitive position in the market. And even with this price increase, we feel that we're very well priced positioned in terms of adopting our product being adopted in the market, really affording a good comparison relative to the traditional PAPR units that are quite premium priced and also have more expensive full service life as well with those types of investments. So I think we're really well positioned even after the price increase.

Okay. Thank you. So the next question is around our guidance and prospects for the rest of the year. So we're expecting revenue growth to accelerate in the second half of the year compared to the first half. What's your basis for confidence around this?

Yes. So we know, firstly, that we had some one-off impacts in the first half. I spoke at our AGM, I think, already about the mining customer in Indonesia that had to close down a large part of their operation, and that will continue to impact us until they reopen again in another year's time. So there were these one-off impacts. But what really makes me optimistic about the second half really is that our European market, which has performed very well in the first half, growing at 26%, shows every indication of continuing on that trend through the second half. As well, I think some of the headwinds that we had in the first half in the U.S. market are behind us, namely, we felt we saw the U.S. regulator was de-established for most of 2025, and that impacted both the market and also our ability to submit new products for the U.S. market. So with that behind us as well as single one-off events like a government shutdown that are hopefully unlikely to repeat, I feel like that market -- those market conditions are more optimistic for the second half. In addition, we have visibility to larger pipeline opportunities that are progressing well and that have very good chances of closing in the second half. And lastly, our product development efforts also are progressing well, and we're quietly confident that those will come to bear at the end -- before the end of this financial year.

Okay. So just a similar question to this. So can you share a little bit more detail about the sales decline in Australia and rest of the world in the first half.

Yes. So like I just mentioned, the Indonesian mine closure in the first half really did impact our business and the value of that business is upwards of $1 million. So it clearly creates an impact for us. So obviously, we're working with those distribution partners and expanding the potential. We do have an expanded pipeline in that market for the future as we await resolution and that mine coming back online. So that really actually is the biggest headwind that we had in rest of the world markets. The market in Australia hasn't rather our pipeline in Australia hasn't developed at the rate that we would have expected. There are certainly some regulatory conditions in Australia that have evolved over the last 18 months, namely how the products are indicated for use between loose fitting and tight fitting classifications. Now what's important for us really is that we are aware of this. We're working towards innovating our own offerings that we can better address those market opportunities in Australia, and we would fully expect that we'll be able to regain our momentum in our domestic market very shortly.

Okay. Great. Thank you. So a question for Bree on finances. Can you take us through the impact of the higher Australian dollar versus the USD and the Euro? Is there some impact on revenue and COGS as well?

So the impact in H1 was minimal as the real rate changes sort of came in December. So we'll certainly feel it more in H2. We do have a natural hedge as we pay expenses in both USD and Euro and particularly inventory, a lot of our inventory is paid in USD. So that counteracts the impact on revenue. But should the rates continue, we should experience some decline in revenue, particularly around Europe as it's our largest portion of our revenue.

Okay. Thanks, Bree. I'll take the next question. So with the balance sheet stability and removal of debt, does it make any sense to commence a share buyback now that you have excess cash on the balance sheet? Is this something that is being actively considered? So I'll talk about this. It's something obviously we've looked at very carefully and monitor very carefully. We believe our cash position is pretty stable now. We wanted to wait until we had resolved the New South Wales loan issue, and that thankfully is now pretty well resolved on the balance sheet. So we will start to look at options that we have to more actively invest our capital going forward or deploy it in different ways. We have made no decisions at this stage. But we wanted to get to breakeven and to resolve the New South Wales loan issue before we make any further decisions around that. Next question is for Gabrielle. Is digital technology being monetized or likely to be monetized in the future?

That's a great question. I think this is a watch the space probably question. We are getting very good positive feedback from customers and user market customers about the potential that the Data Insights reports presents. So primarily right now, we're focused on establishing partnerships with some of the larger organizations that buy our product or are looking to use the CleanSpace KPI units and really working with them to interrogate the data and seeing how that Insights reporting really fits into their operations and helps support a really healthy safety management program. And as we learn from that feedback and those experiences, monetization of that capability is certainly something that we'll be considering in the midterm.

Okay. Next question for Gabrielle as well, although Bree might help. Can you break out any growth rates by product? Is there anything you can say about the product mix.

Yes. I think the CS work has continued to gain very positive traction in the market. It launched a year ago in the U.S. market, and we've seen very positive ongoing growth with that product. It allows a really attractive stepping stone for a customer who may be using a paper mask or another negative pressure respirator to move into a PAPR because they want the greater levels -- higher levels of protection. And that product is really nicely situated there from a price perspective, I think, as well as the value proposition, the technology, the ergonomics that it brings as well. So I think that's probably one of the nice more recent stories about a recent innovation and how it's been able to gain some really meaningful traction in the U.S. market and elsewhere, but we're really pleased with the performance of that product. And certainly, I think it will continue to take its place in the market.

Okay. We just have a couple more questions. So if anyone has anything else they'd like to ask, please submit them now before we close the call. So last one for Gabrielle at the moment would be, are we looking at any other markets to go into such as the Middle East or Asia?

Yes. So we already have partners in Southeast Asia as well as Japan and Korea, and we're working alongside them on different types of projects and partnerships. And so we do expect those to mature over time and working on things like certification of products. Indonesia, we're already certified and we're selling the product into that country and looking to expand indeed our market presence there. As is definitely, Asia and Southeast Asia are areas of interest because obviously, there's a lot of relevant market sectors where CleanSpace can be successful, including mining. And in terms of the Middle East, our European sales leader does manage that territory for us and most recently as a trade show in Germany, and we did get a lot of inquiries, particularly from distributors in some of those countries very interested in the CleanSpace technology. So we'll engage with those interested parties over the next months.

Great. Thank you. Okay. So the last question I've got at the moment is around shareholder who bought, I think, probably at the original IPO 5 years ago. It's only other positive news that you can add for shareholders who've been waiting 5 years and have suffered losses. So just to give a little bit of history around this, the company listed in 2020 at the height of the pandemic. And at that point, the company was very focused on selling into the medical sector, obviously, to support hospitals during the pandemic. As the pandemic subsided, sales really did decline rapidly. And within 18 months or so, the company was actually on life support itself. We were making huge losses and lots of cash outflow. So really, what we've tried to do over the last 3 to 4 years is firstly save the company because we were in danger of going out of business with no cash. And then secondly, reorientate the company back to our original roots, which is in the industrial sectors. And I believe over the last 2 to 3 years, we've achieved both those goals very successfully. And our job now is to really work hard at executing the strategy that we have in place. We have been working hard on this now for 3 years. We have the right cost base. We have the right team. We have the right leadership. We have a strong portfolio of products, which we're adding to on a regular basis. And I believe that over the next few years, the company will continue to grow and strengthen. And we will achieve our strategic goals, which is to be a much bigger player in the respiratory protection space. So I appreciate that some shareholders are sitting on losses from 5 years ago. But I do believe that we will start to recover and improve our position over the next few years. So I'll just check to see whether there's any other questions or any other comments that you'd like to make, Gabrielle, before we close. But if not, we will close the call. Thanks so much for your time, everybody. Thanks for attending, and we look forward to talking again in 6 months' time for our full year results. Thank you again for your time.