Clever Culture Systems Limited (CC5) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the LBT Innovations Quarterly Investor Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Brent Barnes, CEO and Managing Director.

Thanks, Martin, and welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining today's quarterly investor call. We've obviously had recent lockdowns across much of Australia, and we hope that all the listeners and shareholders are keeping well during this time. Our employees in Adelaide have been largely unaffected though, with our R&D laboratory operations uninterrupted and our working from home capability clearly already well established. I'm pleased to say that as of last week, all employees are in the office and working, which is great. Our call today will follow the normal format. I will provide a company update on the progress for the last quarter. And Ray Ridge, our CFO, will summarize our quarterly cash flows. I'll then provide a future outlook before opening up the call to some Q&A. An audio recording of this call will be made available on our website later today. Now I'd like to introduce our Chief Financial Officer, Ray Ridge.

Thanks, Brent. Just a usual formality before we commence. I would like to remind those on the call that today's update may contain forward-looking statements, which do involve inherent risks and uncertainties. Those risks and uncertainties include those disclosed in our ASX lodgments, which we recommend that you review. There are reasonable grounds for any forward-looking statements made today. However, due to their inherent uncertainties, we recommend that you do not place undue reliance on those statements, and actual results may, of course, differ materially from those forward-looking statements. When -- we're ready to go ahead now. Back to you, Brent.

Great. Thanks for that, Ray. So look, it's been a really fantastic quarter. We've delivered a number of positive milestones that I believe lay the foundations for what will be a really promising 6 months ahead to the end of the calendar year 2021. I'll start with our sales and distribution efforts because it was really pleasing to see customer access improve, in particular in the U.S. as the impact and restrictions from COVID-19 begin to ease. We do also see those restrictions easing in Europe, but probably slightly to a lesser extent than that in the U.S. And of course, that enables our sales teams and our partner to again make sales calls face-to-face with our customers, which we know is a really important part of the overall sales process. In Europe, we were extremely pleased to finalize the sale of 2 APAS Independence instruments to the Health Services Laboratory in the United Kingdom. The sale was completed in May. It included the 2 instruments and also included the urine analysis module as well as the MRSA analysis modules for routine use. These instruments have now been delivered and commissioned for use on schedule as we expected. The HALO site is a great case study for our technology as we can demonstrate in a real-world setting the benefits of using the APAS technology for higher-volume routine testing in combination with other automation technologies. In a similar way, I guess, that Labor Wisplinghoff in Germany in Cologne is for us. We also expect, though, to be able to demonstrate the ease of use and flexibility of our instrument in different laboratory workflow configurations, which, of course, is a common question from lab managers and their staff. Also in Europe, we have made steady progress with Beckman Coulter, although I would say that the market traction over the last 12 months has been much slower than either party would have liked or expected. The launch of this highly prospective partnership in July of last year was heavily impacted and has been heavily impacted, I should say, by COVID-19, which has really limited customer access and that face-to-face interaction between the Beckman Coulter sales teams and customers at large. That's why it was particularly pleasing to conduct in-person training with the Beckman French and German sales teams at our key opinion leader, Labor Dr. Wisplinghoff in Cologne in Germany just last month. For many, this was the first time that they had physically seen the instrument in operation, and we feel this added to their knowledge and their confidence of the technology, which we hope and expect will translate to improved sales outcomes in the field. In the U.S., we have momentum building on a couple of fronts. Firstly, we have made progress working through an ongoing due diligence process and negotiations for the appointment of a distributor within the region. While I can't go into a lot of detail for commerciality reasons, this process has taken a lot of time. We've been talking about it for some time now as well. But we are working through product assessment, including voice of customer feedback, and we hope that in the near term we can announce this successful partnership. Of course, this also adds to the validation of the technology because we know that brand reputation is so important for these distribution partners. Elsewhere, with feet on the ground in the U.S., our U.S.-based sales executive was able to complete a number of laboratory workflow assessments, which is a really important part of that sales process and a precursor to getting a customer evaluation in place and for the customer to really understand the benefits that APAS will bring to their specific workflow. So really important activities that have been able to occur. In addition, we also commenced a product evaluation with a prominent West Coast-based laboratory, which we expect to be completed over the next 6 to 8 weeks. I can report that the initial feedback from the lab was positive and/or is positive. And in particular, they commented on the instrument being remarkably easy to use, which is what we have been saying for some time. So a nice customer validation as we expect. During the quarter, we also saw our opportunities develop with 2 multi-laboratory purchasing groups in the U.S. A master product agreement was signed with AdventHealth. Advent are the largest not-for-profit hospital network in the U.S. And while the agreement doesn't guarantee sales, what it does do is provide a framework for engagement with these labs across their network, and we've already identified a couple of sites who have a high level of interest with APAS Independence. The APAS technology was also selected to Vizient's Innovative Technology Exchange event. This is happening later next month. It was a competitive process with only a number of technologies selected and provides an opportunity to present this new APAS technology across their member network which includes over half of the U.S. hospitals as members. From an operational perspective, we moved into a new office in May, consolidating 2 separate locations into one. It was an important move that I expect will deliver real efficiencies across our business. Developing a new product like APAS requires many cross-functional disciplines working together. Our new facility encompasses a purpose-built PC2 laboratory or a physical containment level 2 laboratory. And it's a real showcase of the science, the AI innovation that's translated into a physical instrument. And we've got 3 of these instruments in the lab and on display. So it's a really great opportunity for shareholders and the like to come and see what we're doing. I'm already observing some improvements, and I can continue to see this for years to come in this new facility. I would add that we have had the opportunity to host some groups of institutional investors to our new facility and their feedback has also been really complementary. We will plan an official opening with shareholders. I really want to bring shareholders into the new office. But due to the various restrictions with COVID and the like, we will look to solidify a date in, hopefully, the near term, but we are looking forward to hosting shareholders. With respect to technology development, the team in Adelaide continue to support our commercialization efforts through the development of additional analysis modules. During the quarter, we were able to release a number of evaluation modules for our EU urine product. These initial releases are really important as they enable our customers to trial the product prior to CE marking and significantly increase the number of sites that we can target for sale of the instrument. The beauty and simplicity of our technology is that each new module is effective -- is quite easily installed remotely and provided as just a remote software update. So a super easy way to get these products out to the market. The data generated can also be shared with us and hence, the fine-tuning and machine learning of the technology can continue as and if required. Another key development in July occurred when we participated in the annual ECCMID conference. We've done this every year now for a number of years, and it was virtual this year. And of course, this is the European Congress of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases. It's the largest annual event for our technology. During the conference, we had 5 poster presentations featuring APAS, which was our largest ever presentation of clinical data at a conference. This included presentations from recent evaluation sites at the Health Services Laboratory, where we sold the 2 instruments, and also South Australia Pathology here in Adelaide. There are videos from each of those presenting authors available on our website under the Scientific Library, and I really encourage any of you who are interested to go and watch them. It's a great way to hear firsthand how these experts are using our technology. Finally, before I hand over to Ray, I'd like to comment on our Board renewal process. During the quarter, Caroline Popper retired from the Board as we planned. Caroline had spent 9 years on the LBT Board, and I would like to thank her for her input and commitment over this long period of time. More recently, we appointed Joanne Moss as Chair Elect to the Board. I've already spent a lot of time with Joanne and she -- as she familiarizes herself with the company. And she's also had an opportunity to meet all of our executive leadership team, which is really great. A lot of time has been spent with Joanne to bring her up to speed on our company operations. She brings a wealth of experience with her legal career and time spent on the Board of Ellume. But most importantly, brings a huge amount of enthusiasm for our technology. Joanne will manage an orderly transition with our current -- current Chair, Kate Costello, over the coming months, and I look forward to being able to introduce you to her when the opportunity arises. I'll now hand it over to Ray to talk through the financial updates for the quarter.

Thanks, Brent. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I will now turn to an overview of the financial results as reported in the Appendix 4C lodged with the ASX. These numbers are all in Australian dollars and in accordance with ASX listing rules are not audited. For the quarter ended 30 June 2021, LBT reported net cash outflows from operating and investing activities of $1.3 million and net cash outflows from financing activities of $0.3 million being the quarterly repayment under our SAFA facility. That provided total net cash outflows for the quarter of $1.6 million and resulted in a cash balance of $9.6 million at 30 June. Back to you, Brent.

Great. Thanks, Ray. Look, now for the business outlook, and as I mentioned at the start of the call, it's going to be a really exciting 6 months ahead. I think most significantly in what we've been talking about for certainly the last 6 months is a focal point for this quarter is the announcement of a partner for distribution of the APAS Independence in the U.S. It's obviously a really critical milestone for the company. And as part of our long-stated strategy to secure partnerships with established, high-credentialed industry leaders in key markets. We can't easily replicate. In fact, it's impossible to replicate the brand reputation, the scale, the reach that these companies have. And so it's a key part of our strategy of growing market penetration of the APAS Independence. And obviously, the U.S. is our single largest market. So a really important milestone that we expect. In the near term, we also expect to be able to communicate the outcome of our FDA submission for the MRSA analysis module. We've remained in constant dialogue with the FDA throughout the process and have answered all questions and kind of eagerly awaiting their response, which they have indicated to us is going to be within the third quarter of this year. In Europe, we are witnessing continued improvement in customer access, both directly with Beckman Coulter and also with our direct sales team. We look forward to being able to replicate the hands-on training that we did with Beckman's French and German teams, with their U.K. teams and have that scheduled to occur later this month actually. We also have a pipeline of evaluations in place in Europe. Earlier this month, we have commenced another evaluation for a second site in the U.K. And following this, we'll get to ship the instrument directly to a customer in France to commence another evaluation. So we're seeing already now that some of the benefits of the Beckman Coulter relationship. Both of these placements were a direct result of the Beckman Coulter relationship. And so that's really exciting to see. So the team are really busy working through the U.K. placement that's up and running at the moment and already planning what's happening to the French lab in September. Obviously, Europe at the moment are on summer holidays. And so navigating that is what the team are focused on at the moment. So look, a really exciting third quarter. We're expecting overall an exciting 6 months ahead. I'd like to, at this point, kind of thank everyone for attending the call and hand it back over to Martin to facilitate any Q&A that people may have.

[Operator Instructions] Brent, your first question comes from Luke Moran and he asks, is the distribution agreement still on track for Q3?

Yes. Yes. Luke, thanks for the question. Yes, sorry, if there was any ambiguity there. Yes, we are on track. We expect to have a distribution agreement signed in the third quarter of this calendar year. So by the end of September.

Thanks, Brent. We'll now go to Mark. Mark, please go ahead with your question.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes, I can. Carry on.

Just wondering with expectations for sales on a quarter-by-quarter basis, do you expect to sell instruments now each quarter? Or is it still going to be more sporadic than that?

Look, it's really hard at the moment, especially coming out of COVID. So I think there's a lot of positivity around getting in front of customers, and we're starting to see that traction occur, like I mentioned, with the 2 placements scheduled in Europe and the 1 that we're having in the U.S. I think probably the hardest one for us to predict is kind of that timing on closing the contract and the budget cycles and the like. So we're obviously doing everything we can to minimize those impacts. But it is difficult for us in the current climate to kind of, I guess, predict the cadence of when these sales are going to drop. So we're probably more focused around developing that pipeline and making sure we've got those customer placements in track. But converting that sales and the timing of those is difficult for us.

Right. What's your hit rate with respect to customers that evaluate the product and going on to purchase a product? And how long does it generally take for them when they receive an instrument to place an order?

Look, we've sold 6 instruments globally. So I guess that's really positive, but it's probably too early to have really good metrics around, okay, they've evaluated and they've taken this long, and that's a repeatable thing. We see it quite varied. To give an example that the Health Services Lab finished their evaluation in January, and then took a few months to get it through their procurement cycle. And so what we see is every lab kind of a little bit different from that perspective. What I can say is that every lab that we get the instrument in front of, the feedback is super, super positive. The return on investment calculation works out. We have an idea of that before placing the instrument in the lab. And so the conversion once you get people in front of the instrument using it, has been really, really good. And that's why it's so important to have the instruments placed in these early stages.

Do you have enough instruments available for evaluation?

We do. Yes. Well, we believe we do for the moment. That's -- yes, we believe we do. We've got a couple of instruments that are in the U.S. and with a couple of instruments in Europe. And probably where the focus is, is just around getting the protocols established, which we've got, and trying to limit that evaluation time. So we're keeping it scheduled to a 4- to 6-week time period and then making sure we're moving it from one place to the other. And that's what we're doing for this group in the U.K. So that will be up kind of the early September, ready to put into this lab in France.

With the module development, is that holding up sales at all, not having all of the modules approved that you want approved?

It's not -- no, we don't see it as an inhibitor for sales conversion. So I said that, as an example, these early evaluation modules. So we don't have a urine module, for example, CE marked in the U.S. right now. Even though what we've done with the HALO Group, we've sold a urine module and an MRSA module. So these evaluation modules mean that we've gone through and progressed a lot of the clinical studies. In fact, that's already been done. We've done the analytical performance work. And so it's finalizing the documentation ready for CE marking. So we have available urine modules for the U.S., for Europe and, obviously, Australia. And so that means that these evaluations can continue today. So it's not holding up the procurement cycle.

Right. Could you -- just could you elaborate on a couple of points you made in your 4C. One of them was the poster presentations about the ability to replace earlier than recommended. Can you elaborate on that?

Yes. Look, it's early days, but this is super exciting. So we've done some work around what we call early culture plate read. So what that means is that the current standard, depending on the specimen, is 18 hours or 24 hours to read a plate. And what we did in one of these posters for the VRE module is reading it at 12 to 13 hours. So significantly reducing the time. And of course, now that APAS is able to -- we've got a digital image, we're able to train the algorithm to identify these colony growths much earlier. And of course, we can do that really in a repeatable fashion. And so look, it's early data that demonstrates repeatable and consistent identification of colony growth at 13 hours compared to the 24-hour typical culture plate read.

And is that likely to have an impact on, I guess, demand for the product? If you can shorten that time frame by 30% or so?

Yes. I mean I don't want to get too far ahead, but absolute -- we do know that labs already. So is part of typical lab workflows. You have -- the plate reading time is tied into the instructions for use, which is the media manufacturer. So we don't determine that. And so you've got, let's say, 24 hours. Labs will often self-validate and read earlier than 24 hours or maybe at 18 hours. And so we know that. And so what we see APAS having the potential to do, and we probably need to work with one of the media suppliers to really validate the end product claim, is to be able to demonstrate reliable identification of colony growth at the earliest possible time. And that is really disruptive. If you were able to go out to say, all right, on this particular media, we can halve the incubation time by 50%, that's a lot of hours that we can reduce that patient turnaround time results. So we see that as a real disruptive opportunity for us to bring that turnaround time down significantly. But there would be a large body of evidence that would need to occur, and we would need to work with a media manufacturer to move through that process. But it doesn't mean that labs can't use it off-label if they wanted to self-validate.

And just finally, can you just explain these -- just a reference made there with the APAS-AMR product for the reading of antimicrobial susceptibility test plates, what's that about?

Yes. So this looks at antibiotic resistance to the various growth. So for example, that urinary tract infection. So those plates that are positive. So there is some bad bacteria there. What this test does is looks at the resistance to the various antibiotics. And the end goal is that an antibiotic is recommended to a doctor to treat the specific infection. So what APAS is able to do is through what's called a disc diffusion methodology. So you've got these little round dishes of antibiotics. It measures the zone of inhibition and all the resistance of the antibiotic to the bacteria. And we're able to measure those zones -- those zones of inhibitions automatically. Currently, that's manually done by calipers. And so that provides a significant amount of efficiency gains to labs by automating this. So we're -- this is the grant that we received and we're well through some of that development work there and a really exciting addition. This is kind of like a new indication. It's further on from plate reading. So we do all the plate reading. And now for those positive plates, we can do this additional test. So it really extends the clinical utility of the instrument.

Thanks for your questions there, Mark. Brent, the next question is from Peter Gregory. Considering the range of tests undertaken in labs and the different media used, can you give me an indication of the size of the currently available market versus a total testing market in the geographies LBT are currently addressing?

Yes. So that's a really good question. So you kind of break this down a couple of ways. So first is the specimen type. So you -- let's just start with urines. So you've got urine as the specimen and then you've got multiple media manufacturers that, that plate is put on. So in the U.S., our FDA clearance is on a single media to Thermo Fisher media. And so depending on what data point you want to read, Thermo Fisher has between 30% to 55% market share in the U.S. And so therefore, you kind of translate that to say, okay, well, we have an analysis module that covers that broad kind of range of labs using that media. Shifting to MRSA. The MRSA submission of the U.S. FDA, we submitted using 2 media. So a Thermo Fisher media again as well as a BD media. BD is the second largest media manufacturer. And so we have broader coverage there. We expect that somewhere between 60% to 70% coverage for that. And it's largely a similar story in Europe, although it's a little bit more complex in Europe; bioMérieux is a French company. And they have market share that's quite high in some jurisdictions, France being one. So our urine module for Europe supports a bioMérieux as well as Thermo Fisher and BD's less important. So what our strategy has been is to really make sure -- we're not going to support every media manufacturer. We're going to support the key manufacturers. And they are bioMérieux, Thermo Fisher and Becton, Dickinson. So they're the range of products that we're supporting with each of those specimens and then plate type.

Great. Peter also asks, can you give him an understanding of the IP costs?

I don't probably -- I'll flip that to Ray, but I don't know we want to kind of talk about how much we're spending on IP.

Thanks, Brent. Yes, it's fair to say that you can see from our Appendix 4C that we've spent nearly $1 million in the quarter on staff costs, so a bit under $4 million for the year. The vast majority of that is all going to AM development. So it's software engineers, microbiologists, AI specialists and, of course, a couple of regulatory people. So that is the focus of the majority of that cost in LBT. And Brent, the target for AM delivery is how many per year?

Yes. So kind of depending on the plate of the media, but we're looking at -- the focus here is getting the CE marking for urine done by the end of the year. We've obviously got to expand -- we want to expand the media coverage for the U.S. So I mentioned before, based on Peter's comment that we've got the Thermo Fisher media, we want to expand that into BD media and a bioMérieux plate. And so there's a number of places there. And then, of course, the AMR or the AST testing that we will deliver next year. But I think the question Peter was asking was around IP costs. So the costs associated to maintaining our intellectual property. And of course, we have a number of patents, a portfolio or a family of 4 patents that cover the core APAS technology. And so those patents are already in place and done. And so there's a maintenance cost associated, of course, with keeping those current.

Yes. So outside of the development and initially registering, the cost of maintaining those patents is pretty minimal compared to the majority of the cost which is the actual development of the analysis module.

Yes.

The next question is also from Peter. Does LBT have active relationships with media companies?

Yes, with all of them. Yes. Well, with the 3 I mentioned, right? So Becton Dickinson, Thermo Fisher, bioMérieux. So we -- as part of validating -- their particular media, we need to acquire the media and we have various relationships in place with all of those partners.

He also asks, can you talk about the competition?

Yes. Look, I mean, pleasingly, we still remain completely unique from a technology perspective. We are the only FDA-cleared instrument that automates culture plate reading. The 2 competitors we have are Copan, an Italian company; and Becton, Dickinson, which is a U.S. company. And when I say competitors, they have a total lab automation system. So they automate the plate streaking through to the ID/AST. So it is kind of end-to-end. Royal Adelaide Hospital spent about a bit over AUD 5 million on their TLA, BD instrumentation. So it's really a different category of labs. So while I say they're a competitor, they're a competitor in terms of providing lab automation, but we see this segment quite different. Both of those companies have introduced AI-based applications within their imaging capability. It doesn't do what APAS does. It doesn't autonomously make decisions. But what it does do is kind of group plates, which the algorithm identifies as not having significant growth or significant growth, but still requires a scientist to ultimately read those images on a computer screen and release those. Where, of course, APAS does that all autonomously. And so yes, we kind of -- we see that as a positive in some respects because what it does is that it becomes -- AI within microbiology becomes common, and that's what we want. And we have a vast impressive competitive advantage of how our instrument performs, the [indiscernible] function. And having greater acceptance of AI in microbiology, we think, is a really good thing.

The next question, Brent, comes from Craig. And he is wondering if the urine and VRE are still going to be CE marked this year.

Yes. Yes. So the VRE, we've completed the work, and it's performing really, really well. We've installed a urine module on one of our -- I mean, obviously, the HALO used as part of their evaluation when buying an instrument. So that was done. And the group -- the second group in the U.K. are evaluating with urine, the group in France next month are going to evaluate in urine. So I think what I'm saying is that we've progressed through the development of these urine modules in Europe in a really healthy way. And we're expecting CE marking definitely to occur for VRE by the end of the year. And there could be some slight risk around some of the urine application, but the modules are available and ready for use. So look, I'm expecting urine at the end of the year, but it may slip into Q1.

The next question is, can you talk about sales targets set for sales team for the next 2 terms, considering things are moving along as expected and how much growth in sales you expect to happen once distribution agreement is finalized in September '21?

Yes. So look, I'd say, we obviously can't put forward-looking forecast through. But clearly, we do have sales targets. We have sales targets that we kind of agreed with Beckman Coulter. The distribution partners that we're working with in the U.S. have also -- we've got targets assigned with them. It is a long sales cycle. We've gained momentum in some of these -- in Europe, as an example, through the last 12 months. And I think the key is opening up the markets, getting in front of customers again, making traction in those markets is really important. We're doing some work around training and getting the marketing up and running in the U.S. But I think in terms of where we're focusing our efforts, and what I can say is having feet on the ground, getting in front of customers, getting these workflow assessments done, we're starting to see that traction happening now. And that's really an important, I guess, indicator for when we might expect some sales on a go-forward basis. So I know I haven't really answered your questions other than to say we are seeing a positive shift in customer access, and we think that is an important change in our ability for conversion going forward.

Your next question comes from Mim.

Brent, firstly, congratulations on the sales to the HSL. Just a quick question in and around that. Without HSL being in partnership with Sonic Healthcare and NHS Foundation Trust, is there any near-term potential to get the APAS into other Sonic labs or other facilities within the NHS?

Yes. It's a really good question, Mim. look, I'd say that what we're focused on at the moment is getting the instrument up and running and in routine clinical use. And I think once that's up and running, it's a fantastic case study, both for the NHS in the U.K. at large but also within the Sonic group. I've got -- or the company has direct contact with senior folks within Sonic, who are headquartered in Sydney in Australia. And so they're obviously very much aware of the procurement that has occurred at the HALO in the U.K. And I think where our efforts are focused at the moment is working with them to get the laboratory information management system connected which is a really important part that the customer needs to do in order to generate those efficiencies. And I think once that's done, and it's in routine use, it's going to be a great catalyst opportunity to then further replicate that in other markets. And so there's been some discussion as an example for one of the large labs of the U.S. Sonic -- the U.S. group that we're working with. And so there is some correlation and some crossover. So yes, the opportunity is there. I wouldn't say it's like a slam dunk in the near term, but it's a process to get it up and running routinely, get the metrics out and then share that with the stakeholders.

And just 1 more question while I've got your mind. There was a buy shares analyst report that came out in May and which suggested there's around 10 APAS units that have been ordered for manufacturer. Can you confirm if that's the case? And is it fair to assume they've all got a home to go to?

Look, I think what we're doing is that we're recognizing some supply chain limitations or some constraints. And look, we're definitely -- we think the U.S. partnership and what we're seeing around some of that sales traction and momentum building is really positive. So look, I think there's a correlation, but I don't want to mislead people to say there's a direct correlation. So I don't want to say that those 10 instruments have already got homes. That's not the case. What we're doing is a combination of, I guess, allowing for some growth but also some mitigation around any supply chain issues that we are seeing just with the pandemic that's happening.

Sorry, so I will go 1 more time. And not to harbor on the earlier gentleman's questions. But Chris Ramsey did a webinar not too long ago, where he talked about his excitement for the AMR module and its ability to read 6-hour cultures. Can you give us any insight into what the early data for AMR is showing?

Look, we're focused on these zone sizes and just getting the accuracy kind of to a point that we're comfortable with. So the early data is looking really good. So obviously, a lab in Adelaide culturing these things and we're doing some algorithm training on those specimens. We've also got an early version of the module, I can say, installed in Labor Wisplinghoff, our key opinion leader in Germany. So they're culturing and taking photos, and we've got the current version of the algorithm providing automation and giving us an ability to see where we needed to tweak it. So I'd say from a technology side, it's progressing really well, but we need to expand the sample size, so it's representative. So look, it's super exciting that -- we are very excited by it as are our customers. And I think, look, it's tracking towards our plan. We expect to be able to have a module ready at the end of this year to install on some other key opinion leaders. Labor Wisplinghoff has got a really early one. And so we're working towards having something available kind of towards the end of this year that we could maybe start -- I'd say early, it will be Q1 until we start really putting in front of customers broadly. But our key customers that we're really close with from a partnering perspective, will start to stagger and put on earlier.

There are no further questions at this time. So that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

Thanks, everyone.