Cohance Lifesciences Limited (COHANCE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Suven Pharmaceuticals Limited Q3 and 9 months FY '21 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Gavin Desa from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good day, everyone, and a warm welcome to all of you participating in Suven Pharmaceuticals Q -- 9M and Q3 FY '21 Earnings Call. We have with us today Mr. Venkat Jasti, the Chairman and CEO; Mr. Venkatraman Sunder, the Vice President; and Mr. Subba Rao, the CFO. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some statements made in today's discussions may be forward-looking in nature, and a statement to this effect has been included in the invite, which was sent to you earlier. We shall start this call with opening remarks from the management, following which we shall have an interactive Q&A session. I would now request Mr. Jasti to share his perspectives on performance and outlook. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone, who has joined for this conference call on the earnings of ending -- 9 months ending December 31, 2020. As you could see from the results, I think we could catch up to some of this lag, which is for the first 6 months. And things are moving well, except that some logistics problems and a little bit high cost on the transportation and some raw material increases and all that stuff as usual due to the COVID situation. But the things are coming to very much normal at this stage, and we also see some new additions to the projects during this quarter. All in all, it is going well. And we -- as per the previous con calls, the guidance of 15% to 20% growth is -- will be there for the year ending March 31. And I think it's better for me to answer the questions rather than giving you because everybody has results and the questions may be answered properly rather than I giving you a run-off of these activities. So I leave the floor open for questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mitesh Shah from ICICI Direct.

Congratulations for the strong set of numbers. My question is regarding your revenue. I mean, sharp jump in the pharmaceutical and spec chem has -- a sudden drop in the spec chem business. So is there any one-off or it's in line of your management expectation?

No, there is no one-off here because in this business, everything is a one-off. If you see across business, in the sense that if you have to supply a Phase I compound and the repeat business will not come back into another 1.5 years to 2 years, similarly, to the other phases. So there is no one-off. This is a product mix and the number of projects we have done and the supplies we have done. So there's no one-off as of today.

Sir, basically, even last year also, in Q2, sudden jump in the sales, and in your Q3. So is that because of the shipment delay or shipment timing difference over there or on one particular time, you having the better product. I would just want to know about that, how you managed the -- means your capacity because it's a sudden jump in the Q3, last year Q2. Is that because of the shipment, or do you manage that?

Sometimes, it may be the shipments done in the previous quarter could have come into this quarter also. There's a possibility, always it happens last 10 days' shipments may move to the next quarter. But in general, you cannot compare quarter-on-quarter. These are the projects -- suppose it's not a generic product where I make a contract and supply like that. This is a project we take up. But sometime by the time we start the production and by the time we ship it, it maybe 4 to 6 months to 8 months. So it is a mix and it is the duration. You have to see year-on-year rather than the quarter-on-quarter basis.

Can you expect that your guidance will surpass in FY '21 or it will be maintained like?

I couldn't hear you properly.

Guidance for FY '21.

Can you expect that to surpass your guidance actually?

No, we still stick to the same guidance what we have told. This is 15% to 20% guidance on growth.

The next question is from the line of Ankush Agrawal from Stallion Asset.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Firstly, if you can give some data points in terms of how much was the formulation sales for the quarter? And what is the royalty and profit share that is included in that? And also on the ANDA front, if you can help me know how much -- how many ANDA filings have you done till now? How many are commercial? How many are approved? And how many under the development?

Do you have the numbers?

Yes.

Go ahead.

Yes. We have -- formulations for this quarter is about INR 12.55 crores and others about INR 10.7 crores. And for the 9 months period, formulations total is about INR 31.43 crores and other services about INR 36.66 crores.

The ANDAs were 12 in number. So far, 5 has been -- 6 has been approved. 5 has been -- I mean last quarter 1 small product has been launched. And this quarter, 1 ANDA will be launched. And another 6 out there, we expect them to be approved sometime in the calendar '21.

Okay. So till now there are 5 commercial?

Right, sir.

Okay. And sir, how much was the profit share of royalty that was included in the formulation of sales for the quarter?

That is a trailing time and it takes time whether or not you get into the things. So we're not giving you the breakup at this time because it's a moving part.

Part of the profit sharing is already included in INR 31.43 crores. It's part of that.

Yes, right. Actually, for the last quarter, you gave a number of INR 2 crores. So I was wondering if you can give it for this quarter. No worry about that. Okay.

No, that was the royalty of Malathion, that's what we've given actually. Beyond that, this profit share, we are not trying to split because it comes, there is a time lag from 1 quarter to the other quarter. If I sell this maybe next quarter or the following quarter, we'll be getting a profit share. So for us, it's all budgeted under formulations revenue. That's what it really means.

Right. Right. And sir, my second question was, if you can help me understand how the business economics of our specialty chemicals and the pharma CRAMS is different? I mean because till now in case of specialty chemicals, you have been able to give some kind of visibility in terms of when the molecules will come online, and back in 2015, when the first time we had 1 specialty molecule, you had given a guidance that it's a contract for next 5 to 7 years basically in case of commercial CRAMS, you have been saying that it's an understanding, it's not a proper contract. So if you can give me some understanding like how the business economics is different in terms of how the development cycle is different for a specialty chemical or commercial CRAMS project?

See in the CRAMS until it becomes a commercial product, you don't know the say volumes or whatever it is. Even when it becomes commercial, you don't know whether it is yearly or 18 months or 24 months cycle it will have, depending on how it behaves in the market. Whereas specialty chemicals, they'll -- when it becomes a commercial, they'll give some kind of a guidance compared to the pharma CRAMS. And based on that, we give you the guidance. So that's what the difference between the pharma CRAMS versus the specialty chemicals CRAMS.

Right, right. And sir, how -- like is there a difference in the development cycle for these products?

What is it again?

Is there some difference in the development cycle between a commercial CRAMS in the pharma side and on the specialty chemicals side?

No, no, no. Chemistry is chemistry. Where it is going is the question, but no difference.

The next question is from the line of [ Venkat ] from 3Sigma Financials.

Congratulations for an excellent quarter. Sir, during the last quarter, you mentioned that we are trying to have partnership with MNCs to manufacture in India. So is there any status update on that?

Yes, we have said that we are in touch with them, and it is going on, but the time it takes is 3 to 2 -- 2 to 3 years minimum before you get anything because it has to be a -- understanding has to happen and the evaluation by the QA teams has to come in and do the exercise. And then again, the validation, all the things. It will not happen overnight or quarter-on-quarter, it cannot happen. Things are going on. We are talking now to 2 customers. They are inclined to look into this aspect, not that we have got any business out of it.

Okay. Great. Sir, my next question is, we are hearing that large European companies are moving towards green chemistry and asking their vendors to move towards that. Can you throw some light on that, if there are any plans for us as well?

That is a part and parcel of our core R&D process. Whenever we do this, we try to abide this green chemistry principles because it's not today, we are doing that, it is from the beginning, but there is only so much green you can do in the chemistry. Not everything is possible. But yes, it is a part and parcel of the developmental cycle.

So there will not be any additional expense if there is any move towards green chemistry. And you just have some European companies moving forward. Is my understanding right, sir?

There is nothing like moving. I mean, every chemistry will have some effects, which are highly polluting, you will try to do while doing different synthesis, routes and different chemicals using it to get the same product and some kind of automation and some kind of 1 part reaction, so that the -- I mean other products will not form, with a few products only will form. All this is part and parcel. There's nothing like a separate thing you had to set it up. Chemistry is done in the same, but at the same time, you try to optimize the process what you have to reduce the pollution load, either the emissions or the liquid emissions or the liquid affluent or the solid affluent. This is what the green chemistry is all about.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Abdul Puranwala from Anand Rathi.

So just 1 question on the CDMO pharma space, sir, could you please provide any color on how many number of molecules we've been able to add this quarter? And what number of molecules you're generating this kind of sales for the quarter?

See, I think the last time also I have given that correlating with the number of molecules is not practicable. So only thing what I can tell you is compared to the earlier 2 quarters, we started getting the new projects, which are going to give revenues in the future, not right away, but the number of products and -- because these are all mix and match, and I cannot correlate with one another. So that's why we're not giving you that kind of a breakdown at this time.

Sure, sir. And sir, one more question, if I may. Sir, the 15% to 20% PAT growth guidance is for this year. So would you like to provide any guidance for next year or how would FY '22 pan out for us?

As of now, I cannot provide too much of a -- because today our visibility is only for 6 months. But the traction is good, and we hope to achieve the minimum similar type of things. That's our hope to achieve, but we will not have any visibility. For me, I cannot guide anything. Maybe next conference call, I'll have visibility over the next 6 months, and then I'll be better prepared to answer your question.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Picha from Multi-Act India.

Congratulations on very good numbers. Sir, firstly, on pharma CRAMS. In 9 months FY '21, we have already done a revenue of INR 489 crores, which compares to about INR 468 crores in the entire last year. And earlier, we had guided for about a 20% growth in this segment. Now the numbers that we have achieved in the first 9 months, it seems to be much higher than what we had earlier guided. So where exactly has this positive surprise in pharma CRAMS come from?

It is the product mix and also the duration of the projects. Sometimes, the project will be in 3 to 4 months, then it will be -- it will be a bid in there and sometimes the project 3 to 4 months and also 5 to 6 months also, sometimes pushed into the same quarter. So it looks heavy. So you cannot compare quarter-on-quarter, but the year-on-year is a worthy guidance. Last time when we missed, everybody said it's going down, but I was telling all the time that you don't look quarter-on-quarter because these are all -- lumpiness happens in this business model and it will be -- year-on-year, growth will be there and that's what we are trying to achieve.

Okay. So you mean to say that you still stick to the 20% growth guidance for this segment?

Yes, 15% to 20% guidance as of today, yes.

Okay. And secondly, sir, it seems that the profit share recognition on our 2 ANDAs that we had launched by H1 hasn't yet meaningfully contributed. So what has been the reason for that?

What is it again?

Sir, we had launched 2 ANDAs by H1 this year, and we were expecting the profit share from those to come...

Yes, profit share has dropped, but we are not giving you each item by item profit share and the sale prices and all. We had lumpiness all in one cycle. As you know, these are very, very small molecules. And you will not be having a bumper crop like the big pharma, like other big pharma. We are saying this is an average exercise and -- but it is growing good, and it will grow at 20% to 25%. So all put together only. We cannot give you a breakup of each and every item.

Okay, sir, I get that, but sir, earlier -- in the earlier calls like you were discussing about what could be the potential profit share contribution per ANDA, and you were saying it could be $2 million to $4 million per product. So if we compare...

Maximum of, I said. All put together. Not everything will we touch the line. I also said $0.5 million to $4 million.

Okay. So the product cycle has now...

That's not profit share. I think you misunderstood. That's not profit share. That is the contribution from the sale plus profit share.

Okay. All right. Okay. And sir, lastly, on this spec chem segment, this quarter, our revenues were materially lower. So any specific reason for that? Or it is also due to normal lumpiness in the business that we usually...

No, no, this is the requirement of the customer. But at the end of the year, it will be -- we say the same thing, it will remain the same as like last year, which is more or less flat number. So we catch up with that whatever the -- because sometimes it goes and a couple of containers don't go, even though they go and they don't come into this sale, it will happen. So -- but at the end of the year, you will have the same number like last year.

Okay, sir. Okay. Got it. And sir, just lastly, a small clarification on the ANDA again. So we had launched 2 ANDAs in H1. And after that, in Q3, we have launched 1 more. And in Q4, we are planning to launch another one. Is that correct?

Yes, yes.

Okay. And the 2 that we are launching in H2, are they similar in size to the ones that we had launched in H1? Or are they just -- or...

No, smaller size. Very small, smaller size.

The next question is from the line of Jeevan Patwa from Candyfloss Advisors.

There are only 2 questions. So last time, we announced that we are doing INR 600 crore CapEx. So will it be possible to share any breakup of this CapEx? How we're going to spend this?

Yes, we -- it is in drawing board, that is enabling the resolution we get from the Board. That's why we announced it last time. And as I said, this is a 3-pronged effort. One is the relocation of the R&D center, which will take a long time, 2 to 3 years. And the other one is the replacement block in Suryapet. And then some warehousing equipment at a small block in the Pashamylaram. So these are all -- we are working out -- our project teams are working out. The amount is around INR 600 crores, but we have not finalized how much goes to each activity. I think hopefully by the next con call, we'll have all the answers, and we'll be starting sometime in the first quarter of next year only, any activity will start at that time.

Okay. And secondly, will it be possible to give any update on the Suven Life. So you have given a footnote in the Suven Life results. If it is possible can you just dive how you basically see the future in the Suven Life? Whether you are going to go for any outlicensing or you're going to go for listing the neurosciences? So what's the thought process there?

First of all, to outlicense particular product, you need to have a positive result, right? Narcolepsy trial is undergoing, and it -- because of this COVID delayed by 15 months so far and we hope to finish this trial by the end of the calendar '21. That is one part. And we are also trying to ascertain what indication we should go for 502 because it's a trial, it did not meet the end point but the secondary end point was met. So we are trying with U.S. FDA, session after sessions with them, to go for a new indication. And we are almost finalizing that. We'll be knowing that by May, which most probably we'll go for agitation and aggression trial, which will be again for 3 years. And similarly, we are going to go after the trial for the 4010 for another dementia study. These are all going on. With respect to the collaborations, we are always working on, but success only will bring the collaboration. With respect to the IPO or something like that, if you know, in a value-based IPO, you need to have again positive success at the clinical trial. But we're working with some customers for a strategic alignment, collaborations and all that stuff, but it's not -- nothing is finalized yet.

The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Sir, this pertain to the...

Mr. Gupta, may we request that you speak a little bit louder, please?

Yes. Sir, this pertains to the earlier question on the CapEx plan. By when can we get the proper split of this INR 600 crore announced CapEx?

By May.

By May, okay. And the other question was, sir, I mean, this year, you said that you have around 15% to 20% revenue growth guidance. Any number that you would want to give -- given the 6 months visibility that you have for the first half of next year?

Yes. One quarter will not give me the whole year guidance. So I'm holding until the next conference call.

The next question is from the line of Saravanan from Unifi Capital.

Sir, now in the specialty chemicals segment, we have 2 commercial contracts for intermediate supplies. And last time, you had mentioned that 1 or 2 more could be added by end of the year. Is that on, sir? Are we on schedule?

Yes. One is certainly will be added as early as first quarter of next year. That is fiscal '22. And the other one is in the developmental stage, and that will be sometime in '22.

Okay. And similarly, pharma, you said like one would go in the commercial in calendar year 2021. So you have any visibility whether it will be in H1 of the calendar year or H2?

Not yet, not yet, no indication was given. So as of now, it's unlikely to happen in H1. If at all, it will happen in H2.

Okay. And sir, now -- I mean, Rising Pharma, they would have closed their annual results. I mean, I reckon they would follow the Jan to December calendar. So do you have any yearly update? And what is the outlook for the next year from them?

That you will be getting only at the -- consolidation only, but we are not going to give a figure there because we're a minority shareholder, we're not running that business. But as you could see from the line items what we -- things are doing well. I think it will continue to do well.

Okay. So I mean, any other qualitative aspects you can say like number of projects they're handling?

No, I cannot tell. I never used to tell.

So last year, we had INR 48 crores of share of profits from them. And 9 months, we have done INR 35 crores. So you expect to surpass the last year number, given the traction is good there?

That too, we will know only after I get the profit share from them. So as I said, I'm not running their business. I don't look after day-to-day. Ours is a financial investment. We'll know post-facto and we hope to achieve the same thing. That's what our -- at least get more out of it but we don't know until it comes. So I cannot guarantee anything on that. It's not in my visibility.

Sir, on the project front, you mentioned that -- I mean it was a positive update that you are seeing sign up of new research projects. And so that would ensure the growth for FY '22, right, FY '22 and FY '23. So it is all billable projects, right? Or it is just in discussion stage?

No, no, no. These are -- see, we get discussions many. What do we only update is the things that will come into developmental stage. And they will be built maybe quarter 1 or quarter 2 or quarter 3, depending on the duration of the study and all that stuff. It at least takes 6 months in the initial stages. So yes, things are -- as I said, things are -- compared to the first 2 quarters, now things are coming to the normal, and we saw some new projects additionally being done. But these new product addition is only billable only what we talked about always, not the RFQ.

The next question is from the line of Darshit Shah from Nirvana Capital.

Congratulations for a great set of numbers, especially the margins of 50% was very overwhelming to see. Sir, my question is on a broader base, if you could throw some light on that. Sir, in earlier calls as well as in the annual report, sir, we had mentioned that, no, we are planning to do a value migration from intermediates to API and that itself would be another 30%, 40% value addition in terms of what we are doing currently. So sir, what's the progress on that? And in addition, you'd mentioned you are already in talks with 2 innovative MNCs for some project which might happen over a period of time. So sir, is it part of broader things, which you are working on, if you can share some light on that? And is the INR 600 crore CapEx also part of that overall plan of things? Sir, investors will be delighted to hear your thoughts on that.

So I mean, it is the same as last quarter. Things are going on well. It's -- the discussions are going on and since the travel restrictions are there, even though if they want to proceed further, they want to come and audit based on their API requirements by the QA teams which is not happening. So it is -- but this is the positive direction. Things are going on, sharing the documents and all that stuff. But the CapEx is not necessarily for that. The CapEx, as I clearly said, 80% of the CapEx is replacement and relocation -- replacement of the old one and the relocation of the R&D center. Only 20% of the INR 600 crores CapEx is meant for the some kind of a balancing and it is kind of a small block. So it is not necessarily for the API. Right now, we have enough capability and the capacity. And there will be some warehousing expense that will be needed based on the product, and when the moment to start, we have enough time to put that in place because we don't need a separate block, right. So, yes, it is a start-up as of today, but we are going in the right direction. But it takes 2 to 3 years before you see any revenue accretion based on that.

And sir, would it be fair to understand that, if at all, whenever this value migration happens from intermediates to API with whomsoever we are talking with, then the -- obviously, the scalability on volume front would be a little higher than what we are doing in intermediates because it's another 30%, 40% more valuation. Would it be safe to assume that?

Not necessarily. In the sense, if you are doing what you call an intermediates quantity but at the same time migrating to API, the requirement of the API on the volume terms -- value terms it may be better, but sometimes your volume maybe less than what the intermediates require. Sometimes the API requires 3 kilos of the same intermediates what we are talking about. So you cannot talk about the volume terms. Value-wise, yes, it can go up, but not the volume-wise.

Yes. So sir, my question was on the value front itself, and that would eventually result in incremental sales growth of that.

Naturally, naturally, but that will be 2 years from now at least.

Correct, correct. And sir, in terms of next year, my last question, on FY '22. Sir, so in terms of growth, we can expect that probably the growth will come from newer projects, which we are getting plus on the specialty chemical couple of molecules might go into commercialization as well as the pharma CDMO 1 molecule, which might probably go into commercialization H2 FY '22. Is my understanding, correct?

Yes, it's a mix of each and every part of it. See what happens, not everything goes off -- keep going. I mean, last time, the specialty chemicals business static nature especially for Suven because they are getting their patent out and it became generic, so the volume may go down a couple of years from now. Right now, for next 2 years, it's not a problem. The additions what we're getting is, value-wise, it may be better -- okay, but not the volume-wise. The first product is a volume-based product. Similarly, yes, anything can happen. Now there are only couple of molecules from Phase I moving to Phase II and a couple of molecules from Phase II to III, then suddenly, there is 30%, 40% growth can happen. But right now, the visibility is not there. It is a mix of all these things that gives you the growth of 15% to 20%. I cannot pinpoint which one is giving now at this time.

The next question is from the line of Gokul Maheshwari from Awriga Capital.

Sir, could you just give, for FY '22, what is the plans for launching the ANDAs? And related to this is that are these new launches having a better revenue potential than the ones which are launched where you have indicated $2 million to $4 million of revenue?

No, these are all very, very small volume and value-based products. And it will not be more than what we are doing it, and it is a number that may be 3 to 4 to 5 can be launched during fiscal '22. And post I mean '23 onwards, there is another product, which will be -- which we are working out and if everything goes well, that will give us a better revenue because it's a 505(b)(2) kind of a stuff. So going in the direction. So it is not like other pharma companies where you see a lot of volumes based on the approvals. That's why we don't say until when it comes off. We have values there you could see it is very small at this time. And we are trying to grow that, whichever is the value equation for us with the profit share that comes into the picture. And there are not many competitors out, so that we don't have to worry about. But value is less.

Okay. And with respect to the specialty business, would FY '22 would be better than FY '21 directionally?

Maybe it's in the same range. Not much. 5% to 10% growth if at all.

Okay. Fine. And lastly, just a couple of points. One is on the plans to hire a COO, where you were on the looking out for someone. Has there been any progress on that front?

COO. There's a progress and no progress in the sense that we have looked for somebody and -- who got relocated at this time because of COVID situation. So we are still looking for it.

Okay, fine. Just lastly, you mentioned in your opening comments on some logistics problems. Is that a hindrance for the short term, where some of the projects would have got spilled over to the subsequent quarter? Or...

No, no, I think what's happening is sometimes, we are getting the reports delay. And sometimes now customer is getting delayed because of the shortages of containers and all the stuff. Not only the transportation has almost doubled in sea freight and also almost 50% more in the air freight also. These are little bit -- things which are affecting us. But in general, I mean, if we advance notice to the customers and they are not getting any pinch of it other than little bit cost for us.

The next question is from the line of [ Pranav Mukherjee ] from Ampersand.

Hello?

Yes, sir.

Yes. Sir, my name is [ Sanjay ]. Sir, my question here is that in the first 2 quarters, you had mentioned that because of travel restrictions, you're not able to close new contracts. And you just mentioned that you have managed to get new contracts, basically revive those process. So have you managed to kind of compensate for the time that you lost in the first half?

How's the results showing up? There is no effect on the results, right? The project accumulation is not only for me, for everybody else. It's not the travel restrictions that is causing me not getting the new projects. It is the customer itself, they are not having any, what we call, they are not even going to their offices even now in Europe and America. They are working out of their home. And they're only working out of their home, but started moving because they have to prioritize projects and [Audio Gap] last quarter, we could get it, but we are definitely compensating for everything. As long as you're not losing your business on a day-to-day basis, then it's a not compensation. It will come. And also, it is not a guarantee that each project that comes in will stay forever because these are all the clinical trial-based projects, so how many comes into the next level, we don't know. So things are moving well. As I said last time also, traction is better. And it's not that 1 or 2 quarters lost will stop us growth -- stop us getting good growth.

Understood. Understood, sir. My next question is that there are a couple of molecules, et cetera, which you're talking about more of second half of fiscal '22 and fiscal '23, and you have always told us not to really look at quarter-on-quarter. And since your current guidance is only for 1 more quarter this year, so is it kind of sufficient to kind of conclude that overall full year 2022 and '23, your this 20% -- 15%, 20% kind of growth is something which you can continue despite all the hitches that we saw?

That is our wish and going by the past record, that's what's happening. But at this time, I don't have a crystal ball in front of me, that no visibility other than for 1 more quarter, which we'll not be able to give based on that 1 quarter for the whole 1 year. But as I said, we'll keep updating you as and when we have a better guidance. So as of now, we are sticking to the earlier -- this year's guidance. And next year, we hope to achieve 20% -- 15% growth.

The next question is from the line of Cyndrella Carvalho from Centrum Brooking.

Congratulations on great set of numbers. Sir, some things are performing as per our expectations.

Sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Carvalho. Sir, this is the operator. Sir, there is slight disturbance coming from your line, sir.

Can you hear me properly now?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Yes, Cyndrella.

Yes, yes, sir. Sir, what are your key priorities now as things are looking up, things are better. So how are you looking at things on a segment-wise or overall perspective? If you could enlighten us with some thoughts.

We are very optimistic. But at the same time, the optimism will not bring the results. Things are much better traction, but only the success of the molecules are the ones, which are in the pipeline will give us the results. But in general, yes, it is very optimistic. And I don't see any -- because -- even though there is a COVID that did not really affect our growth. So whatever growth we promised is coming in the way. But there will be a delay to the prioritization of the projects from the, what you call, the customers, but those are a very small volume accretion in the beginning itself. But in the long run, they'll catch up, and we are not worried about that part. In general, the industry is growing good, and that will bode well for us to getting more new projects. But finally the necessary molecules in the clinical trials is one that gives us the business. So yes, we're quite optimistic.

Okay. And sir, any other new technologies that you are -- or platforms that you're thinking of bringing on board something on that side?

Yes, we are in the process looking for the, first of all, unlike other companies, I cannot put some platform technology unless the customers' needs that requirement, and we are evaluating with the customers what is their new requirements will be. Based on that, we are trying to do. And one such thing is the continuous flow chemistry that's what we're trying to develop. And hopefully, we may be able to get ready for that activity sometime in the fiscal '22.