Compagnie de Saint-Gobain S.A. (CODGF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. It is my pleasure today to present our half year results for 2025 together with Maud Thuaudet, our Group CFO. Once again, we delivered very strong results with a new record operating margin. As always, let me start with a few recent examples featuring our light and sustainable solutions worldwide. In the residential segment, our solutions were used, for instance, to renovate nearly 100 apartments in Germany with the highest energy-efficient standards. Another example is this high-end residence in Dubai, minimizing energy consumption for air conditioning. Switching to nonresidential projects, 2 examples, higher indoor air quality for patients in hospitals here in the U.S. and better acoustic insulation in schools in Vietnam. The third end market for Saint-Gobain, major infrastructure projects. Our solutions have been used in this new metro line in Cairo and this bridge in Mauritius. Now moving to our financials. We have delivered very strong results in H1. Our sales are up 3.4% in local currencies, reaching EUR 23.9 billion. We delivered record EBITDA, up 7% in local currencies compared to H1 2024. We achieved also a new record operating margin at 11.8% and a record recurring earnings per share at EUR 3.63 per share, and a very solid cash conversion ratio of 63%. Maud will give you all the details in a moment. Once again, we have delivered on our Grow & Impact strategy. We continue to demonstrate strong operational execution, achieving a record set of financials in an environment where there was a bit of wait-and-see attitude. We have deepened our local organizational model to accelerate the growth of our solutions country by country, enhance our product mix and increase our share of wallet with all our customers. And lastly, we are successfully integrating our acquisitions. I will come back to that at the end, in construction chemicals and in high-growth geographies. So all in all, a very strong performance in H1. I'm very happy, and I would like to thank all the teams of Saint-Gobain. And now Maud, the floor is yours to take us through our financial metrics.

Thank you, Benoit. And good morning, everyone. I'd like to give you the results for our first half 2025 results, and I'll start with our top line. I'm happy to report that we reached a sales growth of 3.4% in local currencies, and this reflects our strong solutions positioning, our country organization and our good geographical balance. Volumes were almost stable at comparable number of working days with a clear sequential improvement compared to the second half of 2024, which were minus 3%. Working days had a negative impact of around minus 1% in the first half. And I take this opportunity to remind you that in Q3, working days will have a negative impact of 0.5 days, more negative in Southern Europe at around minus 1%. And in Q4, working days turned positive at plus 1%. Prices were up 1% in a slight inflationary environment, reflecting the added value of our solutions. The currency effect became more negative in Q2 with the depreciation of most currencies against the euro. And we had a positive scope impact of 3.9%, mainly reflecting our recent acquisitions. Now regarding operating income and margins. We delivered record high operating margins at 11.8% despite the negative effect of currency. Excluding this translation effect, operating income in local currency is up 5%, a new record. And we once again achieved a new record of EBITDA at EUR 3.8 billion, up 7% in local currency. These new records in a challenging backdrop demonstrates a very good operating performance driven by positive mix from our solutions, including also a slight positive price/cost spread. Now moving to EPS. H1 nonoperating costs remain at a level in line with our guidance of EUR 250 million on average per year. Our net financial expense was up, reflecting the rise in net debt with our very good recent acquisitions. And our tax rate while on recurring income was 26%, slightly above our standardized normalized tax rate at around 25%. And last but not least, recurring EPS was stable at the record level of EUR 3.63 per share. Now looking at our cash. We generated free cash flows of around EUR 2.2 billion with a cash conversion ratio of 63% at -- and the operating working capital requirement was stable at 23 days sales, another good performance on that item. And as planned, we opened 9 new plants in H1, resulting in a higher CapEx in H1, but on an annual basis, will remain around 4.5% of sales as we indicated earlier this year. As you can see, we are keeping strong financial discipline and strong balance sheet while at the same time, investing for growth. Net debt-to-EBITDA ratio was 1.7x within the range of 1.5 to 2x. Now let us look at the results by reporting segment, and I'll start with Europe. Europe, overall, we saw a clear sequential improvement in organic sales between H2 2024 and H1 2025. Green shoots of a European recovery are starting to materialize. Our activity either stabilized or returned to growth depending on the country. The margin held up well despite the small volume drop driven by tight cost management and stable pricing over the half, with pricing turning slightly positive in Q2 as expected. A few local dynamics to be pointed out in Northern Europe. First, volumes were up around 1% over the half at comparable working days and pricing was positive. The region was impacted by a more negative working day impact in Q2 at minus 2%. And when I look country by country, in the U.K. and Eastern Europe, we outperformed and have been growing our volumes for 3 consecutive quarters for the U.K. and since the end of 2023 for Eastern Europe. Nordics grew slightly over the first half. And in Germany, after a good first quarter, Q2 saw more of a wait-and-see attitude given the geopolitical environment and ahead of the upcoming stimulus plan. Sales in the region were overall supported by the start of recovery in renovation. Regarding Southern Europe, Middle East and Africa, we continue to show sequential improvement in organic sales quarter after quarter. After the low point was reached in France in Q4 2024, July is seeing stable volumes in France at comparable number of working days for the first time since 2022. And advanced indicators for France remain encouraging. Spain and the Middle East and Africa continued to show very solid growth. Moving to the Americas. Sales in North America decreased slightly given the softer new construction market due to interest rates remaining high, but remains below its structural needs. And on the other hand, we continue to outperform and benefit from the fact that over 50% of our sales are in renovation and meet the demand, especially in must-have renovation solutions. In addition, of course, our local model protects us from the custom tariffs. In Latin America, we showed double-digit organic growth driven by the continued recovery in Brazil. And in Mexico, we saw sales accelerating during the half, and we are starting to see the positive spillover benefits of our acquisition of Cemix in the region in Construction Chemicals and also in Central America. The Americas region achieved a new record operating margin at 19.7%. Now turning to Asia Pacific. The region delivered organic growth of 3.9%, driven by India and Southeast Asia, which more than compensated the weak Chinese market. And I'd like to highlight a few topics by country. First, of course, India, which continued to show market share gains, delivering double-digit volume growth. And we continue to see strong demand for our unique solutions in India, driven by urbanization needs and aspiration for better buildings. China continued to be affected by the weak new construction market, but we outperformed, thanks to our good performance in renovation. Growth in Southeast Asia was driven by Indonesia and Vietnam. Thanks to the competitive edge that our personalized digital services, especially in logistics and the rollout of new product lines. And finally, in Australia, the integration of CSR is going well. The region's operating margin reached a record of 13.4%. And lastly, turning to High Performance Solutions. The segment saw slight organic growth of 0.8%, held by a good performance from construction and mobility businesses despite the weakness on industrial markets. The margins held up well at 12% despite the lower volumes. And when I look at businesses serving construction customers, they grew 3.4% organically, thanks to the good performance of our construction solutions fabric and strong growth in construction chemicals, including the integration of FOSROC. This integration is going well and is benefiting in particular from the strong growth dynamic in India and in the Middle East. Mobility grew 2.6%, benefiting from positive regional dynamics in Latin America, in Asia and from its strong positioning in innovation and high value-added solutions. Businesses serving industry declined slightly, affected by some wait-and-see attitude in the context of geopolitical uncertainty. One last point on my side, you'll find in appendix all the data regarding our upcoming reporting. And as already mentioned in June, going forward for H2, we publish under the new organization in all 4 regions. To wrap up, as you have seen, we have delivered a strong performance for the first half, and I'm very confident we will deliver strong results in 2025. We are all committed on operational levers, be it commercial excellence, margins, cash, price and cost discipline. And I will now hand over to you, Benoit, for the conclusion.

Thank you, Maud. Now I will update you on how we are executing our strategy in each of our regional markets. Let's start with Europe, where we are seeing a progressive recovery. Leading indicators are turning positive in most European countries, both on housing starts and also real estate transactions. You can see it on the slide. Long-term trends remain favorable with strong commitments from European governments to address housing shortages, for example, in the U.K., where their bold ambition to build 1.5 million homes in the next 5 years. Renovation needs also are supported by an aging building stock and also ongoing regulations for energy efficiency renovation. We also see increasing green values. I mentioned to you last year, I think the green value we see in France. It's true also in Germany with a gap reflected in real estate prices, for instance, in Germany, 40% price difference between the most and the least energy-efficient buildings. So energy efficiency renovation is real and is gaining traction. With our comprehensive portfolio, we are very well positioned to leverage these positive market dynamics in Europe. In France, for example, we have the largest share of wallet for single-family house renovation with solutions covering the full building envelope and the ability to reduce energy bills by up to 70%. We are by far the preferred and most trusted partner along the full value chain, providing craftsmen with training, digital services, logistics, everything they need for energy renovation. You can see the level of monthly quotation we have on our software to help the craftsmen on their renovation activity. Now moving to North America. Despite the kind of short-term softness in new construction, long-term fundamentals are intact. And the sentiment should improve from now on with the tariffs and also the tax matters mostly stabilized. Structural housing shortages remain widespread with currently a need for 3.7 million additional homes in the U.S. and 5 billion to build between now and 2030 in Canada. Also, renovation needs are supported by an aging housing stock. It's interesting to see that between 2005 and 2025, we have increased, so deteriorated by 10 years, the average of the housing in the U.S. So needs for more renovation and also needs for nondiscretionary roofing renovation like Maud mentioned, which is more than 50% of our business in North America. We also see an increasing need for climate resilient, sustainable construction due to growing incidence of extreme weather events across U.S. and Canada. In this context, we are very well positioned to continue to outperform in North America, which we have done, if I take our roofing gypsum business in the first half, leveraging our strong country platform with a purely local and resilient business model. In terms of end markets, you can see here a very strong example of our large share of wallet in multifamily and nonresidential building. Multifamily is picking up notably in Canada for immigration purpose and to host all those new population. In terms of channels as well, we are the only manufacturer offering the full comprehensive range of the top categories of building materials. And therefore, we are the preferred partner for distributors and for retailers. We continue to allocate our capital expenditures to the structurally high-growth North American market, and we strengthened also our innovation and customer relationship with 4 new lines that will be opened gradually in the second half and improve and continue to improve our customer intimacy and competitive position. Third, in Asia and high-growth countries, we continue to see robust growth driven by strong demographic shifts and urbanization. Large urban programs are being deployed in several countries, be it in India, in Egypt, in Mexico, 3 countries where Saint-Gobain is very strong, supporting also the infrastructure market growth and, of course, driving increasing needs for building materials. In India, for instance, we now have a comprehensive offering covering all construction chemicals technologies and applications. We are the #1 in construction chemicals in India from admixtures with Chryso, Mortar, with Weber, waterproofing membranes with Menkol to specialty building materials with FOSROC being the leading iconic brand for construction chemicals in India. We are leveraging all these technologies, all the teams, all the applications with a lot of cross-selling opportunities in major projects, notably on infrastructure projects such as the construction of the Metro line in Bangalore. Our presence in high-growth countries and construction chemicals has been strengthened, as you know, with several recent acquisitions, which we are successfully integrating. In Australia, the CSR integration is going smoothly with synergies being delivered as planned and already several iconic Saint-Gobain solutions and very powerful products have been introduced to the CSR product range. In India, the Middle East and Asia Pacific, FOSROC had double-digit growth in the first half. It's not in our organic growth because it's not the way we count it. We'll count it next year. But versus the first half of last year, it's a very strong performance, so performing very well and realizing sizable synergies, notably on purchasing with the vertical integration of polymerization with Chryso. Finally, Cemix here again, 12% organic growth in the first half. Cemix is in Mexico and Central America, delivering strong results as well, rapidly activating cross-selling opportunities and also many actions with the leading distributors and implementing back-office cost synergies as expected. Now let me give you the outlook for the rest of the year. In a macroeconomic environment that remains contrasted, I'm confident that Saint-Gobain will once again demonstrate a very strong operating performance in the second half of 2025. All the teams are focused on all the levers under our control. And assuming no major slowdown in global growth linked to geopolitical uncertainties, we expect the following trends in H2, a gradual recovery country by country in Europe, exactly in line with what we said for multiple quarters now, a good level of activity for construction to be maintained in Latin America, a continued softness in new construction market in North America with interest rates still high, a strong outlook in Asia Pacific with growth led mainly by India, Southeast Asia and also the integration of CSR in Australia. As you can see, there are a lot of moving pieces. But overall, we expect slight positive volume growth in H2. You have seen our strong operating performance in H1, and I'm confident that we will continue to deliver a very good year for the full year with an operating margin of more than 11% in 2025. To conclude, I'm very confident that our group is strongly positioned to deliver on its profitable growth strategy. We are the clear leader in light and sustainable construction. We'll continue to leverage our proven operating model by country. And third, we will remain active on our value-creating capital allocation to drive attractive shareholder returns. Together with the Executive Committee, we are all very excited to present to you our ambitions at our upcoming Capital Markets Day on the 6th of October, and I look forward to welcoming all of you in Paris. It will take place in our Saint-Gobain Tower for this event. And of course, we'll bring teams from many countries around the world. Thank you very much, and we are now happy, Maud and myself, to answer any questions you may have.

So as always, we'll start in the room, Elodie?

So my first question is on volumes. I think we were a little bit disappointed, if I may say, with Q2 volume trajectory at minus 1.8%. So I understand the working capital -- the working day impact, but you had similar impact in Q1. So my question is, can you still reiterate your volume outlook for the year being slightly positive or at least flattish? And I had understood that you were looking for H2 recovery from Europe. So we understand H2 volumes will be positive, but do you still see the full year as being as well positive, driven by better volumes in Europe despite still ongoing weakness in the U.S. So that's my first question.

Do I answer that or you want to, maybe, put all the questions and then we...

Maybe one at a time.

So thank you for the question. So for the full year, we expect flattish volumes. It will be positive in the second half, positive in Europe and a bit softness in North America. But overall, positive volumes in the second half and more or less flattish for the full year. That's what we expect. Despite that, we delivered an improved our margin in the first half. So we are able to continue to deliver a very strong P&L performance with an environment of volume, which was not exactly what we expected in early February, purely because of interest rates in North America on new construction, keeping in mind that the bulk of our business is on renovation, must have renovation in North America.

And just a follow-up on volumes. Do you see a bit of more aggressive competitive environment, maybe on pricing, which could lead you to lose a little bit of market share in some of your country exposure?

No. Clearly, you know that we have a very strong performance on added value solutions on pricing, pricing power, mix, sticky specifications, sticky pricing. So that's the drag of Saint-Gobain, and that's the drive we have demonstrated for the last 4, 5 years on the margin improvement year-after-year semester-after-semester. So that's the strategy that we develop. Even if you take mobility, for instance, up almost 3%. It's a value-added innovation-driven strategy. We are not fishing for volumes. So clearly, that's the momentum of Saint-Gobain. We have a quality of earnings, which is again improving in the right direction. If I look at the statistics that have been published, I take construction chemicals, we are up close to 3% in the first half. So I think we have done quite well versus competitive positions. If I look at North America and roofing and gypsum where there are some public statistics, we are outperforming the roofing market, ARMA statistics in the first half. Same on gypsum. After that, in the U.S., you could have some regional specificities. But on those 2 markets where we have already public statistics, we are slightly above the construction chemicals worldwide or North America. When I reach France, we are clearly outperforming the market. The fact that we are moving towards stable volumes, i.e., that will be positive volumes going forward by the end of the year in France, I think it's above the market. So there are multiple pockets without mentioning, of course, India, where when you grow 10% volumes above 10% in India, I think we outperformed. So there is no trade-off of losing volumes just to please anything on price. It's all the value of our full set of solutions and being more and more other markets when you target nonresidential markets, high-end hospitals, data centers, infrastructure, then you are on specification, not on commodity driving type of price.

My next question is on margin. So obviously, you've reiterated the guidance for the year to be above 11%. But this last year, at the same time, you were able to give a bit more color on margin in H2 and you haven't this time. So obviously, the question is, does it leave the door open for margin to potentially be down year-on-year in H2?

I will give you a general answer and maybe Maud will elaborate also on some of the ForEx, et cetera, impact. You have seen that we delivered a very strong margin in H1 despite slightly negative volumes, keeping in mind also don't overplay the Q1, Q2 because same days, we are almost flat on volumes in the first half. So we should not overread or exaggerate the volume impact in slightly negative in the first half. We will see some positive leverage in Europe in H2. You have seen that in the Americas, we continue to deliver very strong margin, and I'm confident that we'll deliver a very strong margin in the Americas in the second half. And I can tell you that both Latin and North America improved their margins in the first half, and I'm confident they will do very well also in the second half. We give you a full year guidance, and I think we will stay there. You see also that we're always ambitious on the margin. It's not because it was 11% that we stopped at 11%, we delivered 11.8%. So we will continue to be ambitious, of course, including in the second half. And of course, also in 2 months from now, we will give you some indications on the margin for the next 5 years. So I think you will have a lot of margin indication in the coming months, including in early October. So I'm very confident that the margin will be strong in the second half and very strong for the full year.

Maybe give a few moving pieces about the H2 margins. First, of course, we will commit to those slight positive price/cost spread because that's based on all the reasons that Benoit just described about better mix going into more specified sales, et cetera. So slight positive price/cost spread with, of course, slight inflationary environment. We continue to see slight inflation in our raw materials. In terms of foreign exchange, we have an impact of around minus 3% on sales for H2. So that would translate into OP, obviously. And last important piece of that puzzle about margins, which is basically the scope effect. We are expecting 2% on sales of scope effect. Thanks to our good acquisitions, those who will have that impact is FOSROC and Cemix. So you can anticipate that those businesses that we acquired, which were running at above 20% EBITDA would have an impact on the margin. And then, of course, we will remain extremely disciplined on cost for H2 that's how we operate the business on a day-to-day basis.

So a lot of data points to tell you that the margin will be good for the full year and also very good for the second half.

Indeed. Thank you very much for the precisions. On pricing, I was wondering if you could give us a bit more color on the impact of prices within the Construction Products, excluding flat glass because it has been a big swing factor last year. So you've delivered 1%-ish increase in H1. What would it been without flat glass? If you have...

You have to keep in mind that we don't look at that worldwide, we look at it by country. So the dynamic for us in pricing is by country. You have seen that it moved up in Europe. It moved up also in the U.S. So it's truly by country. So I don't know if you want to elaborate, but it's -- we think about it by country. It will turn -- going to continue to turn positive also in Europe. So it's truly by country. And there are multiple examples outside of flat glass where our Construction Products, as you call them, they are all construction products. But if I take plasterboard, U.S., North America, we are up, roofing, we are up. There is no pushback on pricing in North America as we speak, and we don't expect that in the second half. So it's important even if volumes are a bit softer, there is no pushback on pricing. And again, it's all reflected in the added value and the strength of our solutions. So we have multiple examples outside of we continue and we have continued to push prices up in the first half.

Okay. And I promise I'm almost done. Two more questions -- I'm here, so I might as well. Maybe 2 more questions for Maud, sorry. Free cash flow conversion was still very good, but nevertheless, a bit lower than last year, 63% versus 75%. So where do you see free cash flow conversion for landing for the rest of the year?

Yes. So free cash flow was very good, as you said, at 63% it's a strong commitment and above our target of 50%. Now for sure, what the impact we might have is basically we have kept the operating working capital at 23 days sales. And last year, we had an improvement of 2 days. So you don't get that because we stabilize that performance, you don't get that gap in the free cash flows. Now in terms of end of the year, we will remain very ambitious on this topic, and we will continue to push the organization on free cash flow generation. I'm very impressed each time we make an acquisition, actually, you see the gap on what is the Saint-Gobain culture for cash versus the companies we acquire. And this is where we have deployed really a very strong machine to work continuously on cash and improve cash performance. So again, I'm quite confident that we will remain at very good levels for cash going forward.

And lastly, nonoperating costs were actually much better, just down -- just at EUR 50 million in H1. So again, can that be sustainable for H2?

So as I told you a little bit before, we expect to be in line with our EUR 250 million per year. So that's more of a seasonality effect of projects that matter H1 versus H2. So you should keep that number which we had last year as a kind of objective for this year as well.

Second in the room, if you could pass the mic...

I have 3, if I may. The first one is about the price and volume effect behind the organic growth in North America. Could you have more details on that?

On volume, you said it?

Yes. Volume and price effects. And my second question is about the APAC margin. Is it possible? Do you think -- are you confident in your ability to improve this margin at a higher level than it is now?

I'll take the APAC and the first is volume [indiscernible]. APAC margin, yes, I'm confident that on the midterm basis, we will continue to improve. Why? Because we enriched the mix of our solutions. Recently, it was both from a geographic standpoint, Australia and then construction chemicals. So most of the countries in Asia Pacific improved their margin in the first half. There are a few exceptions small countries like Thailand, which was a bit tough. But if I take Vietnam, if I take India, even China, in China because we are a bit more on renovation versus new build, we improved slightly our margins. So yes, I'm confident that directionally, we will continue to see an improvement of our margins in Asia with better mix and also stronger market share to leverage the full offer of Saint-Gobain. You want to?

Yes, sure, sure. So regarding price volumes for the U.S. on North America, basically, we're seeing prices going up versus last year in all main categories of products. Maybe insulation is a bit softer as a product category. And then looking at volumes, volumes are a bit softer. As Benoit said before, we are outperforming in North America when you compare, and we -- that's what we like to do. Each time you have some statistics going out from the market, we benchmark. And we are outperforming in our main categories, roofing again and gypsum. And roofing, again, is a must-have renovation market, which is stable, which has sustainable dynamics in terms of growth over the long term. And then you have -- you can have those more seasonal effects of storms. The storm season regarding roofing was okay this year. Let's see how it goes down in the second part of the year. But again, volumes a bit softer due to new construction market, dynamics in renovation remaining at good level with some dynamics. And then again, pricing remaining positive.

Other questions in the room? If not, we'll turn to the call. So we'll start in the order on the screen. So Goldman Sachs first, if you could go on, please.

Ben Rada Martin from Goldman Sachs. I just had 2 questions this morning, please. My first is on Northern Europe and the kind of exit momentum that you're seeing there. Have you seen any kind of pickup in June, July exit rates, particularly in more volatile markets like Germany? And my second would just be on the mobility exposure. We saw a nice pickup in that performance in the second quarter. Was there any kind of one-off impacts? Or do you think the outlook for that segment might be turning a little bit more positive?

So you take the first. I think it was on Germany, Northern Europe.

Yes.

On mobility, if I understand your question right. No, we have a good positioning again on innovation added value. I think we are outperforming some of the peers, we are well positioned also to capture the growth, be it in India, be it in Latin America. So we expect the year for mobility to continue in that kind of outperformance and also delivering well on the full P&L of mobility.

And regarding Northern Europe, we have very good trends in terms of -- in the U.K., for instance, where we've been growing quite systematically and having good dynamics, growth dynamics. Same for Eastern Europe. We see some programs, for example, in the U.K. of new construction, which is for affordable housing, which are developing on the market and providing good momentum on the market. Germany, we had a kind of mix effect also Q1, Q2 with those working days effect and Easter changing quarters from -- versus last year. So Germany, I would more look at the overall semester performance. We are seeing, for sure, the impulse of the upcoming investment plan from Germany. We are getting geared for that. We have teams already on the ground looking at our offer addressing those segments of infrastructure in Germany. We have a strong leadership in -- we are building strong teams around construction chemicals and around all the markets that we can build in Germany. And then when I look elsewhere in the region, the dynamic is about progressive recovery of the region overall.

And a lot of -- even on the new build, you have seen multiple countries with new build type of activity. So multiple countries up, Nordic being up. So that is moving in the right direction for Northern Europe going forward as expected. You had other questions, Martin?

So we go to UBS now.

It's Marcus Cole. I've got 2 questions as well. The first one was just on price cost in the first half. Can you give us a bit more color in terms of the regions? Were there any regions where this was negative? And the second one was just on -- can you remind us where we are in terms of the divestment journey?

So price cost is positive for the group. After that, you have some differences. It's a bit below in Asia versus what we got in North America, but all this is moving in the right direction. So we are confident again for the full year for the first half and also going the same kind of trend in the second half. There is no specificity particularly on the price cost. It was a bit stronger in North America than Asia, but nothing particular to mention. On M&A, if I understand well, the important point is that the transformation of Saint-Gobain is going on. It's not over. We'll continue to be active on acquisitions. We'll continue to be active on divestitures. Of course, we will highlight that at the upcoming Capital Markets Day on the 6th of October. But very strong message, we are active to continue to transform Saint-Gobain. You have seen the power of what it bought in the last 4, 5 years in terms of value creation, in terms of overall ROCE, margin, shareholder return. So of course, we will continue to do that and all the teams are committed to do that. We will update you more on that, what we intend to do in the next chapter of Saint-Gobain in early October. That's part of the equity story of Saint-Gobain for sure, and it will continue. We move to Cedar, Morgan Stanley.

Can you can hear me?

Yes.

Perfect. I had 2 questions on the U.S. So firstly, you mentioned in the release new assets being ramped up in the roofing market. Can you talk a little bit about how you think about sort of the pricing strategy for those assets, the competitive landscape, whether those volumes are likely to result in lower pricing? And secondly on...

I'm sorry, Cedar. I didn't get the first question. Could you repeat the question because there was some noise in the room. I didn't get it, sorry.

Sure. No problem. So in the U.S., you talked about some new assets, I think, being ramped up, I think, specifically in roofing. Can you give us a little bit of color on how you are going to approach the market with those assets, the competitive landscape, sort of how you think about the pricing strategy with new volumes? And then secondly, on the gypsum market in the U.S., EAGLE materials reported volume growth in wallboard, 4% volume growth and lower pricing. And I know it's difficult to get granularity in terms of your reporting by product category and specific end markets with the Americas all rolled into one. But it looked like your trends sort of went in the other direction with slightly better pricing and slightly weaker volumes. So could you comment on some of the sort of relative strategies that you might be having versus your peer group when it comes to sort of dealing with the trends in the U.S. today? Are you going for pricing, you're going for volume? How do you position your business?

So on roofing, indeed, we will start a new wider line in Peachtree City in Georgia, shutting down a small line around the summer and progressively in the second half. It's an incremental capacity that we need. Remember that our plans were on capital -- on distribution allocation in the first half. So that's in the southeast of the country, which is, again, in needs of products. And I can tell you, when we talk to the large distributors, be it the merchant distributors or the retailers in North America, they are happy that we continue to invest to support them because they had no chance to restock some months ago. So we will do that gradually. I'm confident it's a technology we know well. We actually were in the U.S. together with Maud in the second week of July. We went to the plant. It's ready and the teams are well prepared both on the manufacturing side and on the commercial side to deliver on this ramp-up for [ whooshing ] in North America going forward. And again, our customers are asking for that. They were lacking so much product for the last quarters. On gypsum specifically, you know that the competitor you mentioned, they have a different regional exposure. So yes, we have been a bit more ambitious on the pricing in the first half versus volume. So the trade-off was a bit more on pricing versus volume, but it's minor on our side. EAGLE is, again, in the South. It's a bit more on standard board. So answer for us is we work on the mix of our gypsum towards more added solutions. We deliver on hospitals. We deliver on data centers. We don't deliver on standard board. So there was a bit of the mix effect with our gypsum versus other competitors, notably in the second quarter, I would say the first half is not so much different, but a slight difference indeed versus [indiscernible] materials, but all that delivering good margin for us when you work on the mix as well. And we outperformed the overall market. If I take our gypsum, the whole market was down 6%. We did much better than that because our volumes were just shy slightly negative in the first half. So clearly outperforming the market as well for Saint-Gobain. So next question, sorry, is On Field. Yassine from On Field.

So my first question would be on the residential roofing in the U.S. On the shingle, we see quite a few new plant being announced. I think GAF is announcing a new plant in Kansas in 2027, Mortex in Indiana, Owens Corning in the Southeast, yourself in Peachtree, and Atlas Roofing also is considering a new plant. Have you tried to assess all those new plants, how much they represent as a total of the capacity installed and whether it could have an impact on the market dynamic? And how do you think about the roofing market supply/demand over the next couple of years? And my second question would be on the latest trend that you've seen maybe in July. Do you see any inflection? Do you see any improvement in France, improvement in Germany after the period of uncertainty in Q2 or any change in the U.S.?

So I will let Maud answer on July because you already mentioned July for France. On roofing, again keep in mind that for multiple years, we were all totally saturated on the plant allocation in residential roofing in North America. So the fact that we add a bit of capacity going forward is needed -- it's badly needed by the large distributors in North America, and it comes from the top 3 players, which have very large part of the market, GAF, Owens Corning, or CertainTeed. So if I take our Peachtree 3 City incremental capacity addition, I think it's around 2% to 3%. So it's quite incremental. In roofing, the defense of other industries, you don't have a big step when you add an expanded line or new capacity. And the other plants, they are going to come by '27, '28. I mentioned the aging of housing in North America, the fact that we see accelerated weather patterns. So we need roofing capacities in North America. And if the big players don't do it, other players that don't know well the market might do it. So it's better that the good players that work on innovation on weather-resistant shingles like Saint-Gobain, they do it, and they do it progressively in the regions of North America where we were totally saturated. For us, for instance, we are also doing that in Canada. I've been very happy about the trend of building products of Canada since the acquisition. We use the knowledge of Saint-Gobain to expand a bit the line speed, expand a bit the capacity in Canada because, again, it was a busy market. So roofing is a category which is growing in North America in terms of residential roofing. And I think those capacities are just there to at least cope with the demand, the unmet demand on the market. On July trend?

Yes, July trend. So I'll start with France. In France, as I told you, we've seen for the first time since 2022, volumes stable at comparable number of working days. So that's clearly a sign of progressive improvement in France, and we are seeing -- we are expecting this trend to continue over the second half. In terms of -- we have green shoots and we have statistics supporting those. For example, I'll just give you a few of them, but existing home sales is up 7% versus the trough in Q4 2024. We troughed in Q4 2024 in France. Single family -- new single-family is up 30%, and we are seeing housing starts plus 5%. So we are having all those statistics supporting the fact that -- and that's what we see in our figures for the month of July. So we are seeing really that gradual improvement coming up. In the U.S., the month was also at good levels. And elsewhere, we are seeing again that improvement dynamic. So July is just confirming what we've been talking about since we started that discussion.

Maybe I was a little bit surprised about Germany where R&D activity was down in the second quarter because of the uncertainty before the stimulus. Is this uncertainty fading away? Or do you see an improvement in the second part of the year or next year?

Don't worry the Q2 versus Q1 in Germany because there is a bit of Easter impact as well. So it's important to look at the first half, keeping in mind that already last year, we had seen some volume growth in Germany. So I'm confident that we will continue to see an acceleration, a gradual improvement in Germany going forward.

And when you look at a few indicators for Germany, you have the sentiment from professionals, which is improving. You have various statistics showing you that overall, the market is improving and confidence, which is a very important topic for Germany after the years we've been through, confidence is improving. And I think the stimulus plan is really supporting that -- building that confidence for the market going forward.

We'll go to Harry for Berenberg.

This is Harry from Berenberg. Sorry. Just sticking again with the European volumes. When you talk about this expectation for volume growth in Europe in the second half and particularly given what you just said on France and Germany, would it be correct to assume that you expect a positive trend to be seen in all of your major markets in Europe in the second half?

Sorry, yes. Yes, that's what I mentioned at the beginning. Yes, we expect volume growth in Europe in the second half.

And sorry, just to be clear, my point was that you're expecting that to be broad-based across all of your major countries in Europe? Or is it that you have some that will be out to offset markets that are still weak in H2?

Spain has been in volume growth for multiple quarters, U.K. as well. Nordics turned positive like-for-like in the first half. Germany, okay, there was this exception in the second quarter. Eastern Europe has been turning volume positive. France, we expect by the end of the year, we will turn into volume positive. We see stable volumes in July. So most, if not all of the countries, if I take Switzerland, Benelux, yes, we are turning into volume positive towards the second half. Yes, answer, yes. So Bernstein now.

So on -- going back to mobility, you saw positive growth like-for-like, and you mentioned that it's because of the good value-added portfolio that you have. Could you explain a bit more on this winning strategy and also give us the split of volume and price? Second...

Okay. Second question. Go ahead.

Sorry. So going back to the margins, given what you just said on margins continuing to be strong in H2 and having achieved the 11.8% in H1, sticking to your -- more than 11% margin guidance for the full year seems a bit conservative in my view. Do you agree?

So I'll take the 2 questions. The second one, I already gave a lot of color because Elodie asked that same question at the beginning. So I think we gave you a lot of color about the fact that we are ambitious on the margin. We are very confident about the margin for the full year, very confident about the margin for the second half, again, in the Americas, positive leverage in Europe, and we'll give you also color, which I think is even more relevant on the operating margin targets and ambition for Saint-Gobain going forward at the Capital Market Day on the 6th of October. So yes, positive confident answer on the margin overall. On mobility, I'm not going to give you the volume and price because it's a sensitive customer information. If we push prices higher in one customer and we say it's XYZ for Saint-Gobain, they may ask for a rebate, whatever. So -- but yes, the strategy that has been going on for multiple years within mobility is strong, is delivering on the market dynamic and on the profitability of that business with a better mix. Better mix also is reflected in the fact that we have a large share, a very large share on electrical vehicles with a larger value of automotive glass in the car. You may have seen it's -- maybe not noticed, but one of our small competitor went bankrupt in Latin America and in Europe, liquidated. So yes, we have been happy to take back that share and of course, at good margin. So we are outperforming the market on mobility, and we'll continue to do so because we have a lot of R&D. We have a good manufacturing setup. We have good presence. India is growing and accelerating. So we are confident about mobility going forward. Thank you. I think we will now switch -- if there are no more questions on the call, we will switch to questions starting with Paul Roger, who asked, I think, the first question. Will the U.S. -- so I will read the question. Will the U.S. slowdown effect -- sorry, affect your approach to investment in the market? Does political uncertainty make it less attractive? Or could it create new M&A opportunities? So no, it will not affect our investment strategy in this market. North America actually made 35% of the profit pool of the group in the first half. we have those various plants opening up gradually in the second half. And they are, as I said, intact fundamentals on the North America market for the mid- to long term. There is a bit of softness as we speak in the very short term because of the high interest rates. But clearly, we are continuing to invest. If and when there are good M&A opportunities, we'll stay disciplined as we have been. We passed on some deals in North America in the past, but we got some very good peak. So yes, we will continue to invest in North America.

One comment, Benoit, on this topic, you know there is the OBBBA, which was -- bill which was passed. And you could -- that's also a good incentive for us to continue investing in North America because you have those accelerated depreciation that can show some interesting impact.

Very much on the cash side. So that's a good positive answer, confident, and you know the quality of our teams in North America and the fact that we are truly the partner of choice for multiple channels in North America. Second question from Paul was, can you quantify the increase in individual capacity in U.S. roofing insulation? And -- no, sorry. Second question before was how divergent is performance in U.S. roofing versus wallboard, insulation and other businesses? Insulation for us is not the strongest business because we are a smaller player. But if I take roofing, it's a bit better, of course, because this renovation drive if I take the volumes versus wallboard, but it's just slightly better. Wallboard being more driven by commercial activity and also a bit more new build, but it's a very minor tiny difference. We outperformed both markets based on U.S. statistics. U.S. gypsum market was down minus 6%. We were down just a bit 1% or 2% in volumes. And same on roofing, we outperformed the ARMA U.S. statistics. And third question from Paul. Can you quantify the increase in capacity in U.S. roofing, insulation and wallboard in the next 12 to 24 months? Roofing, it's only us. As I said, it's between 2% and 3%, so very minor. And if I take wallboard, it's more in the kind of 5%, 6% range, 5% to 7% range. It's always a bit hard to cope. Keeping in mind that gypsum, it's very different from other, if I take glass, Saint-Gobain business, where you run 24/7. Gypsum, you can shut down your line on weekend. So you don't create a brand-new capacity. You can always adjust it to ramp up it correctly. The line we added -- we are going to add in gypsum is in Florida, the Southeast of the U.S., where we need also capacity. So this part of the country is growing nicely.

And of course, those capacities will provide us competitive edge in terms of...

In terms of lower cost and cost position. Now questions from Jon Bell, Deutsche Bank, including recently announced Construction Chemicals acquisition, what is your pro forma revenue from this source? The last 3 that we announced on Tuesday, it was EUR 25 million. So it doesn't change the big picture of the EUR 6.5 billion pro forma business of Construction Chemicals doing well. I mentioned that we grew organically kind of 3% in the first half without integrating because that's not the Saint-Gobain method, the double-digit organic growth that Cemix and FOSROC had versus the first half of 2024, which was not in the books of Saint-Gobain. So we don't account for that. But so good momentum. And we will show to you our ambition for this Construction Chemicals segment at the Capital Markets Day in October. Another question from Jon, which lead indicators in France and Germany give you the most ground for optimism? I think Maud already mentioned that, plus our figures on the ground where we -- what we are doing. And then questions from [ Jean-Cristophe ]. Can we raise the subject of Saint-Gobain distribution by [ Timon ]? Can we get the order of magnitude of sales and EBIT variation over H1 versus H1 for this business line? Always possible to raise the question, whether I will answer in all details if it is a different question. No, this business is outperforming the market. When you see that France was down 5% like-for-like, we are down 5% like-for-like because that's the bulk of our business in France, but it's much better than the market. And when I see that some of our listed competitors were at breakeven or 1% EBIT margin, we are slightly below the 6% to 7% EBIT margin that we guide structurally for this business, but just slightly below. So we are clearly outperforming the market. And it's well integrated in terms of one-stop shop solution provider for France across energy renovation. Again, we'll show that in early October. It's a truly competitive advantage of Saint-Gobain from building science to manufacturing to merchanting to recycling of demolition building materials and clearly outperforming the market, both in terms of top line and in terms of EBIT. Mike Betts. Please, could you remind me about the operating leverage in each of your European businesses, more by country and how much can volumes increase before you need to add cost through new shifts? Do you want to take that one, Maud?

Yes. We always say that we have an operating leverage of about 25%. So we have capacity that where we can add shifts. So that's where you get this figure of 25% with -- without, of course, adding additional CapEx to get the growth and the recovery in Europe, which again is materializing in our figures right now.

It doesn't seem to -- we don't seem to have more questions. Are there some additional questions in the room. If not, we will conclude. So again, a very strong performance in the first half. I'm confident that we'll continue to deliver a very strong second half, including in North America, including in the Americas with very strong margins in the Americas in H2. We are seeing this growth of volumes in Europe as we speak, and we will be volume positive in the second half and also slight volume positive for the group in the second half and this operating leverage in Europe. So all this is turning in the right direction and very confident for the margin of the group in the second half. At the upcoming Capital Markets Day, we will highlight again our ambition in terms of profitable growth with highlighting the very strong operating platform that we have built country by country, which are fully in place and very strong pillars to continue to accelerate. As I said, the transformation of Saint-Gobain is not over, and it will continue to drive value creation for our shareholders. And altogether, we are very well positioned to accelerate growth with our unique set of solutions, not only for the residential segment, where we have started to deliver that in the last years on renovation and new build, but also on nonresidential market, infrastructure market and on various channels, be it merchanting, do-it-yourself or direct sales, key accounts and specified sales. So a very strong platform for accelerated profitable growth that will show at our CMD. I wish you a very good summer and see you on the 6th of October. Thank you very much.