Compagnie de Saint-Gobain S.A. (SGO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. It is my pleasure to present our full year 2024 results, together with Sreedhar, our Group CFO. Once again, in 2024, Saint-Gobain has delivered a very strong performance with a new record operating margin, record recurring net income, record cash flow, demonstrating the strength of our operating model and the success of our Grow & Impact strategy. Let me first share with you some highlights of 2024. I start, as always, with a few examples in light and sustainable construction of Saint-Gobain solutions being used around the world with iconic buildings. For example, Saint-Gobain provided a comprehensive range of solutions, include facade systems, fire proofing, insulation and ceilings for the research and development district in life science in San Diego in the U.S., the largest urban commercial waterfront site in California. In 2024, we expanded our presence in high-growth markets with 4 major acquisitions: CSR in Australia; Bailey in Canada; FOSROC in India, Middle East and Asia Pacific; and Cemix in Mexico. With these acquisitions, we have further increased our presence in the high-growth geographies of North America, Asia and emerging markets, where we now generate more than 2/3 of our operating profit, and we have also strengthened our global leadership in construction chemicals. In 2024, we also continue to differentiate our offer through sustainability with our low-carbon, energy-efficient, high-recycled content solutions, such as the recently launched Infinaé SoundBloc plasterboard, which is the first in the world made of 100% recycled gypsum. We launched it in the U.K. with British Gypsum. And we achieved a 34% decrease in our Scope 1 and 2 CO2 emissions versus 2017, further lowering the carbon footprint of our products. These great results have been achieved, thanks to a fantastic commitment by all our teams who are always aiming higher. And I would like to congratulate and to thank warmly all of them. Let's come now to the financial results. We have delivered record results in 2024, despite a challenging environment, notably in Europe. The sequential improvement in sales, with plus 1.6% growth in the second half of 2024 compared to the previous year at constant exchange rate, a record operating margin at 11.4%, a record recurring net income at EUR 3.5 billion and also record level of free cash flow at EUR 4 billion with a 62% cash conversion ratio. Sreedhar will give you all the details on the financials in a few minutes. In a nutshell, we have constantly delivered on our Grow & Impact strategy with: first, of course, a very strong set of financials, demonstrating our excellent operational execution; second, our solutions approach, reflecting in our pricing power, increased share of wallet and enhanced product mix; third, a very disciplined capital allocation towards high-growth geographies and construction chemicals; and last, our focus on sustainability, which is more and more a competitive advantage for us. Before I leave the floor to Sreedhar, I would like to say a few words about the changes that we have announced last week. As you know, Sreedhar will be taking over the new role as CEO of Asia Pacific and India region starting beginning of April and succeeding to Santhanam, our Asia and India CEO, who is retiring at the age of 68 after a brilliant career of 45 years within Saint-Gobain. I would like to thank you, Sreedhar -- to thank Sreedhar very warmly for the deep successful impact he has made to the group as CFO for the past 6 years and for being an exceptional business partner for me and for all Saint-Gobain colleagues. In his new role in the Executive Committee, I have every confidence that Sreedhar will bring all his skills, all his passion, all his energy and all his experience to accelerate the profitable development, no pressure, Sreedhar, of Saint-Gobain in the high-growth markets of India across, also Asia Pacific and, of course, including our recent move -- big move in Australia with CSR. I'm very pleased to welcome Maud Thuaudet as our new CFO after 13 years at Thales where she had various roles, operations, M&A in India, in Egypt, in France. Maud joined Saint-Gobain in 2019 as VP of Strategy. She played a critical role by my side in our successful acquisitions of Continental Building Products in 2019 and also of Chryso in 2021. She has been also very instrumental of shaping the 2021 Capital Market Day of Grow & Impact with the success that we know over the last 4 years. In the last 3 years, Maud has been CEO of our French glass operations where she notably pioneered the world premier of zero carbon production and, thereafter, the launch of the first low-carbon glass under the brand name of ORAÉ. So please join me in welcoming Maud. And now, Sreedhar, I leave you the floor to take us through the financial details.

Thank you, Benoit. Good morning, everyone. Let me get into the more details of our financial results of 2024. So starting with sales growth. As you can see, our organic growth are sequentially improving between H1 and H2, and we also posted the growth in the second half. All the segments were stable or growing organically in the second half, except Europe, even though it showed a sequential improvement in H2 versus H1. For the full year, the volumes were down low single digit, bang in line with what we guided the market in the beginning of last year, and the prices were slightly down given the deflationary environment that we witnessed in 2024. And when you look at the trend, the Q4 prices were virtually stable, which bodes well for the start of the year 2025. The positive structure, you can see here, the effect has actually started accelerating throughout the year with the impact of the integration of Bailey and CSR in Australia. Please note that we have a working day impact, minus 1% in Q1 as well as in Q2, slight negative in Q3 and plus 1% in Q4. Regarding operating results, you see here, we have delivered a record operating margin of 11.4% and a record operating income at a constant exchange rate, despite the fact that we had the volumes which were lower. All the segments delivered stable or increasing margin. The margin improvement year after year clearly shows the capability of the group to demonstrate its ability to deliver even in a challenging environment. And it also reflects the success of the strategic repositioning of the group and also the execution -- the strong execution of the team. We achieved a positive price/cost spread over the full year and slightly positive in H2, thanks to our robust pricing discipline even in a deflationary environment. Let's look at the other P&L lines. Below the operating income, we once again achieved a new EBITDA, EBITDA margin, which is a new record, as the margin of 15.5%. The nonoperating costs remained below our guidance of EUR 250 million that we communicated during the Capital Market Day. The net financial expense incurred slightly -- increased slightly mainly due to some increase in the net debt due to the important acquisitions that we did during the year. Recurring net income and recurring earnings per share also has demonstrated a record level. Please note that to reflect the true operating performance, we have excluded the impacts of hyperinflation and amortization of purchase price allocation from recurring net income. If you look at the free cash flow generation, you can see that this year, we have set once again a new record with a EUR 4 billion free cash flow and a conversion rate of 62%. We have further reduced 1 day working capital, which means a total reduction of 17 days in the last 6 years. This consistent performance year after year demonstrates the cash culture, which is completely ingrained throughout the organization. This also has helped to strengthen the balance sheet. And at the same time, we are able to consistently invest on the growth for the Saint-Gobain performance. The net debt to EBITDA ratio was 1.4x at the end of December. Taking into account the recently closed acquisition of Cemix and FOSROC, and the net debt to EBITDA ratio will still remain at the low end of the target that we gave at the Capital Market Day, which was 1.5x to 2x in 2025. And I know, knowing Maud very well, she will continue to keep this financial discipline, and you will see that we will have the balance sheet strong even in the future for Saint-Gobain. Now let's look at the results by reporting segment. I'll start with Europe. Overall, we saw a strong sequential improvement in organic growth between H1 and H2, even though the new construction market remains down, thanks to the renovation market, which remains resilient. Globally, all the countries in Europe have touched the low point, including France, and we expect to continue with the sequential improvement progressively quarter after quarter. We had a positive volumes in the U.K. in Q4, in Germany for the last 2 quarters, in the Eastern European countries and Spain and Italy throughout the year. The operating margin stood at 8.4%, a new record, reflecting the successful management of costs, including the headcount reduction, productivity improvement, price/cost spread management, the solution journey that has got a positive impact on our business and also all the optimization of portfolio that we are doing consistently. Let's move now to Americas. North America grew with the volumes holding up well, thanks to a dynamic renovation market in roofing. We are progressing well with our capacity expansion investments. We expect them to be operational by middle of the next year -- middle of this year and a progressive ramp-up in the second half. In Latin America, the markets remained down over the full year, but picked up as expected in H2, mainly driven by Brazil, helped by the market share gain in the light construction market. The closing of Cemix acquisition will further strengthen our position in Mexican market and Central America. The operating margin reached a new record of 18%. Now coming to my region, Asia Pacific. The organic growth in Asia Pacific was driven by India, where once again delivered -- we delivered a market share gain, and the volume growth was 10%. We continue to play a leading role in sustainable construction in India with our comprehensive and innovation -- innovative offer. In China, the new construction market remains significantly depressed. However, we continue to outperform, thanks to our renovation exposure and to the success of country's highly digital driven lead to the market and the way we serve the customers in the region. Southeast Asia recorded growth in H2, driven by the strong momentum in Indonesia and Vietnam. Our CSR acquisition in Australia was closed on July 9, and the integration is going on very well. It delivered a good operational performance in the second half of the year, in line with our expectations. Each time I go to Australia, I'm really impressed with the team, the confidence, the enthusiasm, the way they engage the customers in the market and their understanding of the customers' needs. Clearly, I see under the leadership of Paul Dalton, they are generating a good number of ideas to leverage Saint-Gobain's strength and deliver a very strong result in Australia through the CSR team. And I'm very confident that we will create value in this attractive acquisition, and the region's operating margin remained at record level of 12.6%. Now let us look at the global customer market. High Performance Solutions saw like-for-like sales down over the full year, but with a strong sequential improvement in H2. Businesses serving global construction customers grew significant -- slightly over the full year and accelerated in H2, driven by both ADFORS GlasGrid solutions and construction chemicals growing 3.1% like-for-like. The recently closed acquisitions of FOSROC marks the acceleration of the group's presence in construction chemicals market, particularly in high-growth countries like India and the Middle East and Asia Pacific. Businesses serving industry declined over the full year, but stabilized in the second half with an increase in the order book at the end of 2024. Mobility sales were down slightly over the full year, but gained share in high value-added models, thanks to its differentiation strategy and investment in innovation. The operating margin increased slightly to 4.1%. Now to conclude. In a nutshell, you have seen in 2024, we have once again delivered a very strong financial performance, and I remain very confident that we will deliver even in 2025. Over the last 6 years, you've seen Saint-Gobain has radically transformed and repositioned itself as a group, which is going to continue to remain profitable, cash generating and value creative. And this clearly a good performance, a consistent performance is also reflected even in a difficult environment. And that's why I'm very much convinced that a lot more to come in the future. Now that I pass on the baton to Maud, who will further strengthen the group under the continued inspiring leadership of Benoit, and you will get to meet her during the road show with me and have a chance to interact with her. I commit myself to contribute to the exciting future of the group through my new role in Asia Pacific. As you all know, I have been, in the past, in the operational role, and I love to be on the ground. So I'm super thrilled to be back on the ground, be closer to the customer and look for how Saint-Gobain can differentiate and develop the accelerated profitable growth in the future. As this is my last presentation of the results, it's a very emotional moment for me. I really want to take an opportunity to thank Benoit, and I always said this quite often that any CFO of any group can contribute only when you have a CFO -- a CEO who has the ability to listen. Because if the CEO is not willing to listen, the CFO can do nothing. So I had a big privilege and fortunate boss, who was willing to listen, allowed me to challenge him, had the humility to have this conversation with the open mind, and that's what made the huge difference in the journey of last 6 years. And I know, Benoit, that you will allow me to continue to do even in the future. So I want to also thank each one of you, all the investors, sell side, buy side. It has been a huge privilege because this is not something I knew. This is the first experience I had. I think you all gave me a strong support. You trusted me. I think it was a great experience. I just want to thank you, and I'm sure that I will host you one day in the region and demonstrate again and show you -- showcase every good work the team is doing in the region. Thank you once again, and then I'll pass on the floor to Benoit.

Thank you, Sreedhar. Now let me update you on our strategy. As the worldwide leader in light and sustainable construction, Saint-Gobain is stronger than ever because, strategically, we are positioned on attractive growth markets and also because, operationally, we have strong action plans to consistently deliver and execute very well. In all regions of the world, we see strong megatrends driving the need for sustainable construction, energy efficiency in buildings. Public and private is supported by enhanced regulations and fiscal support in Europe, and we increasingly see a green value reflected in real estate prices. Decarbonization of construction is another strong trend with an increased penetration of light construction methods that enables a 50% reduction in the embodied carbon and natural resource usage and also a 20% gain in productivity. Finally, the increased frequency of extreme weather climate-related event calls for significant investments, be it in the U.S., in Europe or in emerging markets. Sustainable construction just means better buildings and more resilient buildings and infrastructure. Let me now zoom on each of our markets. First, North America, which is a key growth region for us. The market in the U.S. and in Canada is supported by significant housing shortages and structural renovation needs. We have a leadership position in North America, and we have been investing over the past years to strengthen it, notably with more than EUR 300 million growth CapEx in 2024 and new lines and plants that will start from mid-2025. In Asia and emerging markets, construction is driven by continued urbanization expected to add roughly 2 billion urban residents by 2050 and by ambitious programs like in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia with mega cities in the years to come. We are reinforcing our presence in these high-growth markets, notably in India, which is the third largest contributor to the group operating profit and where we have doubled our sales over the last 6 years and added 27 new lines or plants from CapEx and acquisitions. Moving to Europe, we see a progressive recovery. For new construction, there is a pickup in housing starts and permits in some countries, renovation as well, which represents 60% of our European sales, should benefit from rising housing transactions. Thanks to our comprehensive portfolio of solutions, we are very well positioned to resume growth in the second half of 2025 and benefit from a positive operating leverage. Beside the geographic development of our strategy, our second growth access is construction chemicals, where we have built a global leadership with a platform representing EUR 6.5 billion, more than twice what it was 5 years ago. We have achieved this through a combination of organic growth and successful acquisitions, starting with Chryso in 2021, in GCP in 2022 and continuing with the recently closed acquisitions of Cemix in January and FOSROC beginning of February. Under the leadership of Thierry Bernard, our CEO for construction chemicals, Chryso and GCP are delivering strong synergies and have achieved a combined EBITDA of EUR 325 million in 2024. This represents an EBITDA margin of 20%, 140 basis points above '23, on top of the more than 400 basis point improvement we have delivered the previous year. The integration of FOSROC will unlock significant synergies as well with its strong brand also complementary geographical footprint and comprehensive portfolio of technologies and applications that will reinforce our offerings, particularly in the infrastructure space. Let's hear now directly from Thierry Bernard and Rob Bonnici, the CEO of FOSROC, who is reporting to Thierry.

It is with great pleasure that I welcome the FOSROC teams to Saint-Gobain. FOSROC is a strong, high-performing business that will bring great value to our group. We have built a global platform in construction chemicals with a balanced exposure to both fast-growing regions like India and the Middle East, where growth will be driven by population increase and urbanization and to major countries where growth will come from innovation and sustainability. In addition to reinforcing our established concrete admixtures and cement additive offerings, FOSROC significantly complements our product range in segments such as waterproofing, additives and sealants, concrete repairs and flooring. The integration has already started under my supervision and will be carried out by the same team with the same methodology and energy that made the entry of Chryso into the group and the combination with GCP in 2022 such a great success. With FOSROC, we will become an even better partner for our customers, and I'm very confident that we will create a lot of value for our shareholders. We really are stronger together. And now, I'm pleased to introduce Rob Bonnici, FOSROC, Chief Executive Officer.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Rob Bonnici, and I'm the Chief Executive Officer of FOSROC. I've been in the construction chemicals industry for 23 years, spending the last decade here at FOSROC. I joined the Executive Committee in 2015, leading global sales and marketing before expanding into R&D, operations and M&A. FOSROC is a global leader in construction chemicals built on a foundation of technical expertise, innovation and very strong customer relationships. Our specification-driven approach means we work closely with engineers, architects and contractors to develop tailored solutions that meet the most demanding in project requirements. These expertise that have made us a trusted partner in major infrastructure projects, where performance, durability and long-term sustainability are critical. FOSROC's specification-driven expertise and technical capabilities are completely aligned with Saint-Gobain's vision as the worldwide leader in light and sustainable construction, and that's why joining Saint-Gobain represents such an exciting opportunity. Together, we will unlock new growth opportunities.

Thank you, Thierry. Thank you, Rob, and welcome again to all the FOSROC teams within Saint-Gobain. Acquisitions and divestitures are part of a continuous journey to optimize our profile for strong profitable growth. We have a disciplined capital allocation policy. And since the end of 2018, we have rotated around 40% of our turnover, and we'll continue to be active in acquisitions and divestitures as part of our value creation focus. Our recent acquisitions are performing well, notably in Canada, where we have built a comprehensive offer with the acquisition of Kaycan, Building Products of Canada, and Bailey, which are running at a combined EBITDA margin of 19%. And in Australia as well, where we have established a leadership position with the acquisition of CSR. The integration of CSR is going smoothly with synergies delivering as planned, and we have delivered an excellent EBITDA margin of 18.1% in 2024. Thanks to our targeted CapEx and also M&A in high-growth, profitable regions, more than 2/3 of our operating profit now comes from North America, Asia and emerging countries. So our success is due to the strategic decisions I just highlighted and that we have made in terms of geographies and also in terms of attractive segments such as construction chemicals. They are also linked and based on our powerful operating model. Our focus on execution is what allows us to deliver consistently. We have a strong country-led organization, which is well adapted to our local business model that has demonstrated its capacity to navigate and overcome various challenges and economic environment. Our country CEOs own their P&L. They are fully accountable and empowered to take proactive operational action to deliver profitable growth. They also leverage the full portfolio of Saint-Gobain solutions in their country in order to drive cross-selling opportunities and increase their share of wallet with our customers. The solution approach is a key differentiating factor for Saint-Gobain. Our comprehensive range for all construction and building types is second to none. I would like us to hear directly from Christian Bako, our VP, Marketing and Development; and Thierry Fournier, our CEO for South Europe, Middle East and Africa on the solutions.

Hello. I'm Christian Bako, Vice President of Marketing and Development at Saint-Gobain. Our marketing team plays a crucial role in structuring the group's offering and providing tools and methodology to bring those solutions to the market effectively. With a global perspective, we share best practices, identify trends and support countries in rolling out Saint-Gobain's offer, while ensuring local market alignment. At Saint-Gobain, we focus on addressing specific customer pain points to deliver impactful performance. With our solutions-based approach, we go beyond individual products and create comprehensive solutions for specific market segments such as schools, hospitals or office buildings. This is one of our key unique selling propositions, combining deep expertise, a wide product offering and complementary services to create differentiations and competitive advantage.

Hello. I am Thierry Fournier, Senior Vice President, CEO, Southern Europe, Middle East and Africa. Indeed, Saint-Gobain offers a full range of solutions for all building types, positioning us as a one-stop shop for our clients. Our breadth of solutions is unparalleled in the industry, having all our solutions in one country managed by a single local manager allows us to adapt to our clients' needs. Let me highlight 2 standout projects that show the power of Saint-Gobain solutions approach. First, in France, we contributed to Paris-Saclay Hospital projects. Spanning 49,000 square meters with over 480 beds, this hospital focuses on patient and staff well-being, innovation in the service of care and excellence of care. For this project, we provided a range of Saint-Gobain solutions, including multiple plasterboard solutions, fire safety glasses and ceilings. Another example is the Red Sea project in Saudi Arabia. For this tourism mega project, part of Vision 2030 of the Kingdom, we provided a complete solution, including insulation, plasterboard, ceiling solutions and construction chemicals of the Shebara Resort. We are just beginning our solution journey, but we are already seeing its clear potential, improved product mix, market share gains and overall acceleration of Saint-Gobain's growth in Southern Europe, Middle East and Africa region. Thank you.

Thank you, Christian. Thank you, Thierry. As you have heard, this solution approach allows us to improve our product mix, increase our share of wallet with customers and outperform the market altogether. Digitalization is also key to our solutions approach across the value chain, be it the door-to-door logistics setup that we have developed in Vietnam over the last 3, 4 years, the digital ordering platform in Australia at CSR or simulation software for craftsmen in France, which allows us to outperform the renovation market. Our differentiated solutions also benefit from our commitment to innovation, which I will illustrate with 2 examples. Glasroc X that brings superior performance, thanks to its ADFORS GlasGrid and which has been launched successfully in more than 80 countries and above now EUR 200 million in sales just in the last few years. PREPRUFE liquid sealant is a complementary solution to GCP PREPRUFE waterproofing membrane that brings significant productivity gains to our customers. All these strategies that I presented to you is bringing attractive returns to our shareholders. In 2024, total capital returned to shareholders from dividends and share buybacks amounted to EUR 1.5 billion. Since 2021, dividend per share has increased by 16% per year, and we have finished our 5-year EUR 2 billion share buyback program in 2024, 1 year ahead of plan. In 2025, we plan a dividend of EUR 2.2 per share, up 5%. And we have announced a new share buyback commitment of EUR 400 million in 2025. Now let me give you the outlook for 2025. In a macroeconomic environment that remains contrasted, Saint-Gobain will continue to demonstrate a very strong operational performance in 2025. Assuming no major disruption linked to geopolitics, we expect the following trends in the different segments: stabilization in Europe with a gradual recovery country by country expected in the second half; construction to maintain a good level of activity in the Americas; strong outlook in Asia Pacific; and for high-performance solutions, dynamic growth in construction chemicals, mobility to firm, thanks to the strong value-added solution approach; and a gradual recovery in growth expected for most industrial markets. We are expecting an operating margin of more than 11% in 2025, which is above the initial range of our strategic plan, Grow & Impact. Coming back to our strategic plan Grow & Impact. You can see here that we have delivered on all our Grow & Impact financial objectives that we set out at the Capital Market Day in 2021. I'm very happy to invite you to our next Capital Market Day that will take place on October 6, 2025, where we will set up our group ambition for the next years. This will be an opportunity to demonstrate how we will continue to outperform, leveraging further the very strong foundations that we have built over the past years, a clear strategic vision on light and sustainable construction worldwide leadership, our solutions approach, our value-accretive capital allocation and our commitment to strong shareholder returns. So I will look forward to unveiling the group's new ambition on October 6. In the meantime, as you have heard from Sreedhar, I am, we are very confident that 2025 will be another strong year for Saint-Gobain based on the strong strategic alignment that we have created, very powerful and also excellent operational execution. Thank you. And now let's turn to your questions. We will start, as always, with the questions in the room, you on the left and then we'll go with you, please.

First question is not really a question. It's a message for Sreedhar. I wish you good luck for your new position. Also good luck to Maud. And maybe a question to you. Why this move? Is it maybe a new opportunity or new challenge for you? Why this move to the EMEA? And maybe a second question on the guidance. Regarding your message of construction cycle recovery, it seems to be a bit cautious. So could we have your assumptions in terms of price/cost spread and volumes?

So Sreedhar, first question, and I will take...

So you're saying that in the new job, the opportunity and challenges, look, there are plenty of opportunities. I can just spend the whole day because it's a region which is growing, booming. It's a region which is growing with the population. And you know that our business is directly linked with the population growth. And Saint-Gobain is bringing differentiated solution in this market, is shaping the market. There are a lot of technologies, a lot of solutions that didn't exist in the past. And in the last few years, we have made a big starting point there. So we have a strong brand recognition. We have a good route to the market. We have a solution, which is getting more and more accepted. And we are the one who is seen as a leader in the green and sustainable -- light and sustainable construction in the market in the region. And I can tell you, the CSR is another good addition to the Saint-Gobain's portfolio.

And continent.

It's a continent, it's a fantastic continent. And I think when you look at the team, the enthusiasm, the knowledge that they have, the rigor with which they work, I'm all the time -- every time I go, I come back with a very positive feeling. If I'm only excited, be rest assured, I don't see this as a challenge. Benoit nicely said no pressure, but I love pressure because it's fun. I think we need to keep ourselves on our toes, and we will continue to do our best. I think that's the approach Saint-Gobain took in the last 6 years. Each time we face with the challenges, we just said, "Okay, what is it that in our control? How are we going to do it differently?" And just deal things which are under control and not get bogged down with things, which are not under control. I think that's an approach I'll take even in the future.

Thank you, Sreedhar. And maybe we'll give you a bit of color around the guidance on volume and price and maybe also on the margin, if it's part of your question. So on volumes, we expect volumes overall to be flattish to slightly positive for the full year of 2025 at the group level. We expect H1 2025 to be slightly negative partially in Q1. Sreedhar mentioned also the working day impact because of Europe and mainly France. And we expect growth in H2 with a progressive recovery in Europe. As always, we will keep a positive price cost spread and prices to be slightly positive as well. So -- and then on the margin side for 2025, we are always very ambitious on the margin. We will remain very disciplined on execution with the price/cost spread I just mentioned, with all the productivity actions, the solution journey to improve the mix. And I'm happy to say that for the last year of our Capital Market Day, the floor is what used to be the ceiling when we started the journey. So I think it's a real step-up in the consistency and the performance and the ambition of Saint-Gobain. And as always, we'll do the maximum. Second question from Yassine.

Yes. Yassine Touahri from On Field Investment Research. So a couple of questions. First, on the capital allocation, you've done a very good job of building a leading position in concrete admixture and cement additives. I think your team started to mention entering the waterproofing, adhesives and sealants, concrete repair and flooring market. My question would be, what kind of opportunity do you see in this space in waterproofing, adhesive, sealants? Is it something that we could see -- where we could see a substantial growth in the next 5 years organically and through acquisition? And then the second question on your investments. So I think you invested a lot in a few plants in the U.S. What kind of return do you expect on those investments? And what would be very helpful is to get a sense of what kind of additional operating income do you expect on a full year basis for all these plants in roofing and plasterboard.

So yes, construction chemical, as you know, it's a EUR 100 billion market from tile fixing, renders, waterproofing, concrete repair, flooring, additives, admixtures that you mentioned. So Chryso was clearly the specialist now with GCP. We are the #1 on cement additives worldwide. Weber historically were the worldwide leader, and we are the worldwide leader on tile fixing. So we have the full range. We have made quite significant acquisitions on waterproofing already, not as big as the Chryso GCP that you mentioned, but Izomaks, for instance, in Australia was waterproofing. We have done Brasprefer 2 years ago in Brazil. So waterproofing is indeed a segment that we have invested, and FOSROC is very strong on waterproofing. GCP, you may remember that GCP has also a lot of waterproofing, envelope, vapor barrier, ice and water shield for roofing. So indeed, the construction chemical space is the full range, and we are building both capacities. We invest on new plants and also technologies across the board. It's a very good question that we will address in depth with Thierry Bernard at the Capital Market Day to give you the color of what we have done and the richness of our portfolio and, of course, the expectation and the ambition going forward. But yes, we are investing the full scope across the board of construction and tools. It's part of Thierry -- what Thierry presented in November '23, when we had the Investor Day at Zernez, the Chryso R&D and main plant in France. If you remember well, we had this presentation in construction and chemicals. In the U.S., so some plants are going to start progressively for mid-2025. So it's mainly roofing and plasterboard. Roofing, we are sold out, and we have been sold out for some time. We are sold out at the beginning of the year. We increased prices on roofing as we speak, so it's a strong momentum. We need capacity. The kind of increment of capacity in roofing is in the 2% to 3% range. So it's not massive, but it's something that we need to serve well, some of the markets, and we are gaining share a bit in some segments of roofing. Plasterboard, the second line of Palatka in Florida, we have a unique position in the Southeast of the U.S., which is a growing region. So it's also an addition that we absolutely need. And overall, we have more than 20% return on those investments in terms of CapEx. It's a bit too early to tell you because it's not going to be visible in 2025. The true operating profit, that will add, because the plants are going to start around the summer. So progressively, we will load the plant, but we need those capacities to follow up the growth of the market in North America. So it will be good additions for both plasterboard and roofing.

Maybe a follow-up question on your guidance. I think there is a little bit of concern among investors when you see energy price rising, gas pricing rising in Europe. What kind of hedging do you have on gas and electricity? And also when you look at the momentum for pricing, I think it's been quite good throughout 2024 where you're ending up the year with relatively stable pricing. Do you see some price increases in 2025 when we look at other...

You want to talk about hedging, and I take the...

Okay. So on the hedging, it's something which we have come back to the old policy that we do it on an average of 50%. That's nothing specific we did. The -- only the exception is during the COVID and the energy crisis that we had, we made certain exceptions, but it's now business as usual. We continue to cover a part of it in a very systematic manner.

And on pricing, yes, we have multiple. You have seen that the price evolution has been improving quarter after quarter in 2024. And at the beginning of the year, we have announced multiple geographies price increases, be it in the U.S. I mentioned the roofing. We have announced also some price increase later on for gypsum in the U.S. We have multiple price increase in Europe. So yes, there has been a bit more inflationary environment at the beginning of the year. So we will continue to push for our price increase in different geographies and different segments. Is there another question in the room? If not, we will go to the first question from Elodie Rall from JPMorgan. Elodie, please go ahead.

Yes. And congratulations to Sreedhar again on your journey at Saint-Gobain, your next adventure, and we will miss you, obviously. So my first question is on your guidance again, but just to have your view on the impact from acquisitions that you have announced and so the contribution that you'd expect already on revenue and operating profit for 2025 as well as the FX expectations that you have at this stage. And then second, as volume starts to recover, as you said, from H2 and going forward, if you can help us quantify your expectation on impact on margins going forward. And if again -- sorry, the last question, a topical one. What would be your exposure to Ukraine-Russia ceasefire and so basically recovery? And if there is any concerns to have on tariffs from Trump?

I did not understand, Elodie, your last question. Our exposure to Ukraine and what to expect.

So Ukraine and then tariffs impact potential.

Yes. So Elodie, on acquisitions, we expect around 3% impact -- positive impact on the sales. And in terms of profit, it should be around EUR 200 million addition in 2025. And we -- as you know that the integration is going on well.

You want to mention on the volume? So we expect -- at the group level, we expect volumes to improve in the second half. Of course, as we told you several times, the impact on operating leverage will be more in Europe. When volumes improve gradually in the second half, country by country, because we have troughed in all the countries, including France in the fourth quarter. And Sreedhar mentioned to you that we had volume growth in Q4 in the U.K. and 2 quarters already in Germany. So the margin impact on operating leverage coming from volume will be more in Europe than other regions of the world. When you see the margin that we have in North America, we are already at a very healthy margin. So we don't expect a significant leverage going forward.

And you just have to keep in mind that there is a comparison base effect in -- particularly in Europe in the first half. And also we have, as I mentioned, there's a working day effect also, the negative. So you should expect that Q2 will be, particularly in Europe and France, will be well up.

On the third question, Elodie, Ukraine and then tariff, Ukraine, so we have a very small presence in the West part of Ukraine. So I don't think we can expect anything in the very short term. Of course, there will be some activity going forward, and we are well positioned, notably from Poland to service Ukraine with the Polish manager. He's taking care of Ukraine. On the first order of magnitude, we could expect on the energy side, if something positive happens on the conflict, that could release a bit of price pressure on energy. So I think that will be the first order of magnitude, at least on the short term. Going forward, there could be more activity indeed to rebuild Ukraine. But I think it's too early to say, and we see that it's still a bit wide expectation or wide scenarios on Ukraine. So I would not bang on that for 2025. On tariff, as you know, Saint-Gobain, maybe we are not putting that forward enough, but Saint-Gobain, both from a business standpoint, we are on local construction markets. And from a governance standpoint, we are organized by country is very strong in the geopolitical uncertainty, the deglobalization of the world of today. As you know, we have 125 plants in the U.S. They service the U.S. We have 37 plants in Canada. We are #1 in the U.S., #1 in Canada. We service Canada. We have a Mexican manager in Mexico. So we are well positioned. Our products don't travel. The customers are local. So I'm not worried about this kind of impact. It's true in North America, but it's true also elsewhere. So I don't expect that to be significant. For me, one question that the U.S. administration has not yet landed, and maybe you have some questions on the geopolitics. The workforce impact on the U.S., if there are massive deportation of workers, that could have impact across the U.S. economy. We don't see that. And I think it's too early to tell, but this should not -- but the workforce impact, of course, on the construction, the infrastructure for the companies which are exposed to infrastructure or building activity, that's something that we have to watch. So far, there is no impact, and we have a good start of the year in North America, but that's, I think, even more important than anything else. Because we are local and products don't travel, so nothing negative to expect on that.

And I had just a question on FX expectations for '25 as well.

Minuses. So that's where we see. At this point of time, it's very difficult to always predict. But when we look at the real current situation, that's how I look at it.

Next question is from Ephrem Ravi from Citigroup.

Sort of two questions. Firstly, on CSR, the 18% margin -- EBITDA margin that you have said. From memory, CSR used to make about 15% EBITDA margin, and it seems like a fairly big jump this year. Is there a change in scope in the way you're kind of reporting CSR, i.e., the aluminum business already excluded? Or is it as is -- as was before? And again, is this the kind of margins you would expect in that business going forward? That's the first one.

Yes. What we reported was 17.7%, and they are at 18.1%. So they are slightly better than what we had communicated to the market when we made the announcement.

You had a second question, Ephrem.

Yes. On the second question, if you look at the margin improvement in the businesses that you have recently acquired like GCP, et cetera, pretty much, that accounts for more than 100% of the earnings growth over the last year or even the last 2 years. So is there a kind of a story that the rest of the businesses are still under pressure that the legacy gypsum wallboard and distribution businesses, while it's kind of really the acquisitions that are really kind of driving the margin growth that we're seeing right now in Saint-Gobain?

We clearly see that even in Europe, where the markets and the environment has been very challenging, so it had a negative impact on volumes and the negative impact on absolute profit to improve the margin in Europe. So again, as Sreedhar mentioned, all the segments of Saint-Gobain in '24 improved -- stabilized or improved. So I think it's a collective success. So yes, all the businesses are very active on driving the value creation country by country and the improvement of the margin. In terms of mass, of profit, we have seen that in Europe, the absolute amount of profit dropped from the year before, and that's something gradually that we will recover going forward with the gradual recovery of Europe that we expect starting in the second half of 2025. Next question is from Brijesh Siya from HSBC. Please go ahead.

I have two as well. The first one is on the margin side. In Asia Pacific, that margin came at 12.6%, which is healthy. But when I look at your previous target of having 13% to 15% margin in that market, so the question is, is there anything which you are still lacking there or you need to do a little more in the portfolio optimization in that business to kind of bring that towards mid-teens margin? And the second one is similar on HPS, the high performance, and there as well, you are probably undersuiting your target there. So is there anything -- any of that, like the mobility business, which is underperforming at this point in time, i.e., the auto glass or glass business where you probably need some portfolio optimization to help it -- improve it?

Will you take your next region, Sreedhar, and I take HPS?

Okay. So on Asia, if you look at it, there are a couple of things you need to keep in mind. China has been suffering, you know that. So it has such an impact. And CSR, anytime when you do an integration, there are always some technical effects in the first few months. But globally, I think we are in good shape. If you look at the second half margin, it is actually improving margin than the first half. So I remain quite confident. And there is no reason in Asia, I have no intention to divest any business because it's all businesses, good businesses and continue to grow. So we are looking -- I'm going to invest and grow. That's what the mandate with which I'm going.

Thank you. And on HPS, the margin improved slightly in 2024 versus '23. We mentioned a few times already that one business that suffered last year is ADFORS. ADFORS is impacted more than others by new construction in Europe. So that business has been gradually improving by the end of the year, but suffered overall during the year 2024. We have seen a nice evolution over the years of mobility, so improving with a lot of innovation, value-add type of strategy, and their business is exposed to initial markets, stabilize during the year and improve their order book in the last quarter of 2024. So I'm confident that we will see further improvement on those overall segments in 2025 because the dynamic is positive. And of course, within HPS, we'll keep a strong dynamic in our construction chemicals. So the trend is positive, and we have seen it in the second half versus the first half in the last quarter. You see it also in the price and volume details of HPS. So it bodes well for an evolution in '25. Next question.

Just a second question. Sorry.

Sorry, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead.

No, I was just asking about the Asia segment again, sorry to coming back on that. Given to this enthusiasm and how you're kind of investing in the last couple of years, it sounds like the Asia is going to be a much bigger pie of the open group than what it is right now. And obviously, it started with 4%. Now, it's 6%. It will soon be 8%. But is it easily consumable in the next 3 to 5 years that Asia will become somewhere between mid-teens to around 20% of the group sales?

All is ambition during the Capital Market Day in October.

Let me get into the job.

And keep in mind that we have a large portion of High Performance Solutions, which is linked to Asia. And this is why, again, when you look at the operating profit of the group today, altogether across all segments, we have 34% in North America, 34% in Asia and emerging markets. You know, and I mentioned it, that India is #3 in the profit pool of Saint-Gobain. So yes, Asia is much broader and bigger than just the regional exposure that we showed to you in the segment of Asia Pacific. You don't have the full effect of CSR because we have only a bit less than 6 months in 2024. But yes, we have a strong ambition in Asia Pacific across all segments of the group. And Sreedhar again will highlight that as part of our ambition for the next years for Asia Pacific. But it's the journey and the mandate and the ambition that Sreedhar will land for us in Asia Pacific. Next is Arnaud Lehmann from Bank of America. Arnaud?

I have two questions, if I may. The first one is regarding M&A activity. Can you talk about the pipeline of potential acquisitions? And in particular, are you still looking at more acquisition in the construction chemical space? That's my first question. And my second question is on your recent acquisition of Cemix. Can you explain why you're going to include Cemix in the Americas region, while all the other construction chemicals assets are in the HPS division? I thought you were creating some sort of global entity for construction chemicals. And slightly related to this business, if there were tariffs between Mexico and the U.S., would there be a risk in terms of the synergies between Cemix and, I guess, GCP?

Thank you. And also we continue to have strong activity in terms of M&A. You have heard also from Sreedhar that we have a solid balance sheet, a bit below 1.5 in 2024, slightly above, but in the low range of 1.5 to 2. That is the range that we gave 4 years ago at Capital Market Day. Of course, we want to keep a very solid balance sheet. Yes, we are active on geographical development and also construction chemicals. One example that I didn't highlight, but it was on my slide. Kilwaughter in the U.K. that we closed in December is a nice addition also to, overall, our exposure on construction chemicals. But it's not only construction chemicals. Gypsum is a fantastic business that we grow nicely with very high margin altogether. So roofing, we grew in Canada on top of the U.S. So we have multiple avenues for growth on Saint-Gobain. Our worldwide leadership on light and sustainable construction is on the residential segments, ceilings, roofing, glazing, facade, flooring, partitions, all this plus non-residential, plus infrastructure. So this is also what we will highlight at the Capital Market Day, what is the ambition across those different segments, residential, new and renovation, non-residential and infrastructure. Cemix, no, there is no impact from the tariff because Cemix is selling very little to the U.S. They have more presence in different countries of Central America like Guatemala, like Ecuador. So it's more Mexico, plus Central America than anything else. It's part of the tile fixing, waterproofing. We had already a business in Mexico, IMPAC waterproofing that has been reported in the Latin America, Americas region. And this is why at this stage, we put Cemix in this range. But again, this is something that we highlight, the global picture of construction chemicals during the Capital Market Day in October because, indeed, like we did for FOSROC, it's one group now. And all the FOSROC regions from Weber, GCP, Chryso, FOSROC, it's one management. So India, Middle East, Asia, all this came under one management to make sure that we maximize the synergy of all those businesses across those regions. And of course, this is something we are thinking of going forward. Next question is from Cedar from Morgan Stanley.

I've just got a question on your intention for M&A in 2025. In '24, you spent over EUR 3 billion on acquisitions. It's a big number for the business. If I look at sort of a normalized free cash flow level of the business after the growth CapEx for the 2 years, we're sort of run rating at about EUR 3 billion. And then you're paying a little bit more than EUR 1 billion in the dividend, and then you've got your new buyback of EUR 400 million. So round numbers that's leaving the business with EUR 1.5 billion of sort of unaccounted for cash in 2025, which is fairly quite a big step down from the level of spend in '24. And I know you've got balance sheet capacity because appropriate level of gearing and all, but I'd just like to here how you're thinking about the cadence of M&A in '25. Should we expect another very large year in spend like we had in '24? Or is this more back to sort of the more normalized level of spend of maybe EUR 1 billion to EUR 1.5 billion? So that's the first question. And maybe you can talk about the landscape of M&A, et cetera. And then the other question is just on the cash flow statement. I know you defined free cash flow before growth CapEx and before a lot of other cash items. But if we look at the sort of more clean reported cash flow statement, then the net cash from operating activities after capacity investments and after IFRS 16, that cash actually declined in '24 relative to '23. And there's some quite chunky numbers around other noncash -- other operating cash items and sort of deferred tax changes and provisions and liabilities, et cetera, which seem to explain the delta. So I'd just like to understand what those items are. And while they might not be operating cash items, they are a cash call on the business. So if you could give us a little bit of clarity on how to think about those numbers into '24.

Cedar, so first, I would say on acquisitions, as I mentioned, we are super concentrated on quality of execution. I think what we demonstrated over the last 6 years that we have created a lot of value through our acquisitions. Continental was year 2. Chryso was year 2, and you have seen the improvement of GCP. So before letting Sreedhar mention about the capacity of the group in terms of cash, I can tell you that we are very concentrated on a good, well-documented synergies and delivery on the acquisitions that we have made in the last year.

Yes. So Cedar, some of the observations are very valid. First is when you look at the 2025, you're trying to see where we are going to lead in terms of debt. You rightly said it's -- the shareholder return is more slightly above EUR 1.5 billion. That's where I'm seeing EUR 1.5 billion, including the share buyback. Then you have the growth CapEx close to EUR 1 billion. Then you have -- don't forget that we have to -- we paid in the beginning of the year Cemix and FOSROC. Again, it's around EUR 2 billion. So all that, if you add up, it will be slightly -- the debt should slightly go up in 2025. Second point on your key cash flow. First is, yes, there are certain one-off implications, which are nonoperational. For example, we made a conscious decision to externalize certain pensions, particularly in France, to reduce the volatility on the provisions that we have in pension. So some of these are tactical moves that we take. Again, it will all have an impact on the positive impact in the future cash flow. So it's one-off decision that we took. Second is we have this year acquisition-related costs. As you rightly said, yes, we did certain important acquisitions in this year. So there are certain costs related to acquisition. Again, this is one-off. And particularly, in CSR, we had an element of stamp duty, which was known during the due diligence. This is something which is a law. We need to do it. And it also has an advantage because when you reevaluate your assets, particularly the land, you have to pay the stamp duty. But then you don't have to have the tax implication when you sell the land. So you will see that benefit -- positive benefit in the coming years. So yes, it is a one-off, and that's why it doesn't make sense to put it in the operational cash flow.

Thank you, Cedar. And as always, we will -- I mentioned that we are extremely focused on the quality of integration and synergies. You have heard from Rob Bonnici and Thierry Bernard have been working together for the last 6 months on preparing all the synergies, IT, purchasing, organization, supply, et cetera. So that's extremely important. And second, we are also very disciplined in terms of capital allocation, in terms of strategic allocation towards geographies, high growth and construction chemical and executing well. So we'll keep going forward this discipline, and we'll continue also to create value with M&A. So yes, there is acquisition. There is also some cash coming from divestiture. So you have to think of the net of acquisitions and divestitures. If I take now -- there is no more questions on the line, so I'll take the question on the Internet, and I will read them, so that we can answer. So a question from Paul Roger from BNP Paribas Exane. Portfolio recycling has structurally added 250 basis points to the margin. What is this figure now that you have done more M&A? It's around the same. So I think, Paul, you have already landed at the right figure, around 250 basis points, if I'm correct, Sreedhar.

Yes, yes. And we'll have some small impact, a positive impact of FOSROC and Cemix in 2025.

Second question from Paul is several companies in the sector have taken action to crystallize U.S. value via spins, minority listings, et cetera. Is this something Saint-Gobain would reconsider? The answer is no. We have a lot of synergies in terms of development, in terms of innovation, in terms of manufacturing across the world. So no, I don't want to lose those synergies. When you think of GCP, for instance, the waterproofing synergies that we have around the world with roofing in the U.S., with other business segments in Latin America or in Europe or in the Middle East, that's something I don't want to lose. And the worldwide leadership of the group and the thought leadership on sustainable construction, when we travel to the U.S., when we meet customers, when we go to Europe, Middle East, Asia, all this is part of one global leadership, and that makes the power of the group. So no, I don't want to contemplate this kind of evolution. A question from [indiscernible] from Societe Generale. A question could for you, Sreedhar. Cost around EUR 39 billion, of which EUR 9.5 billion are personnel expense. For the other EUR 30 billion, could you give us a split for materials, energy, logistics, fixed and maintenance cost? How much of personnel costs and other OpEx are fixed? I think there is a big miss, which is the distribution part where we buy and resell. So I think that maybe a question that should be taken offline because it's -- I think we are a bit far off from the...

Yes, But other than that, the big tickets are the raw material and energy is EUR 12 billion. And then you have the salaries and the fixed cost is around EUR 17 billion. And I said in the past always that the EUR 17 billion, 1/3 of the EUR 17 billion is semi-variable. So that's how that analysis it reflects.

Another question from Societe Generale. You reached 11% in '23. '24 was above. In H1, H2 is still around 11%. Any conservatism into guidance of more than 11% margin? What are the different moving parts? And how should we expect the margin to develop over the 4 quarters? I think I mentioned on the margin guidance that, first, we stay ambitious. That has been what we did together over the last years. We'll continue to be disciplined, of course, on all the cost aspects, be it productivity, proactive actions on headcount like we did in Europe, the price/cost spread. And I'm happy to finish the Grow & Impact period with what used to be the ceiling being now the floor not because we are in building materials that we transform ceiling as floor, but it's part of the journey over the last 5 years. And the different moving parts, I can tell you that price/volume, it's always a trade-off, an intelligent trade-off. We mentioned that the price/cost spread will be slightly positive. We are confident in Europe that we have reached a low point in all our main markets. Acquisitions, Sreedhar just mentioned that it should add a bit on the margin side. There are plus and minuses on the freight. But again, we are ambitious on the margin, and this is how we will drive the group going forward. A question again on Societe Generale. Direction trends in pricing and volumes in January, February, what are your expectations for the full year 2025? I don't comment specifically on January, February. It's in line with our expectations, so nothing special to report. I think I mentioned that we have multiple pricing actions at the beginning of the year in multiple geographies. We are doing well and stronger on roofing, for instance, in North America. So overall, nothing to...

And we remain confident to deliver price/cost spread positive. Of course, it will be a slight positive in 2025, but yes, positive.

And the expectations for the full year 2025, I think I told you that we expect flattish to slight positive volumes for the full year 2025 at the group level. And I mentioned to you, the H1, H2 impact notably because of Europe, progressive recovery moving into Europe in the second half. A question from Kepler, reasons to be cautious, operating margin guidance in '25. Is the uncertainties related to the escalating trade war? I think we answered already that question on the guidance and the tariff. I mentioned to you that we are local in different local market. So -- and the very important point on construction market is that be it renovation in Europe, be it new construction in North America, of course, in Asia and emerging markets, there is a big need for construction activity. I mentioned the 3.5 million shortage of housing in the U.S. It's bipartisan in the U.S., the 5 million homes that need to be built in Canada between now and 2030. So it's true, of course, with urbanization in Vietnam, in Indonesia, in India, of course, the shortage that we have on new builds across different countries in Europe, but the big need of renovation and the green shoots that we mentioned to you on the different countries of Europe. What is the reason, again, a question from Kepler Cheuvreux, for changing the calculation method for recurring net income? Sreedhar, you highlight...

It's very simple. We have always made an effort to give you the true performance because it's important to not have any numbers, which is not easy to read. So having something like hyperinflation makes no -- it becomes difficult to read the number and the performance. So we did it with a good intention, and all the details are given to you. So you have the numbers. I think it's much more logical in my view.

Maybe before I finish on the Internet, there are now questions back on the call. So Gregor from UBS and then Harry from Berenberg. Gregor, do you want to start?

So my question is really just coming back on the price/cost and, I guess, the fixed cost management. So I think just to be clear, I think you've always sort of talked price/cost purely on sort of unit pricing versus unit variable cost. And then obviously, you've got fixed cost inflation, which, I think, you historically kind of offset with efficiencies. I just want to double check that's your thinking here as well. So in other words, the way we should think about it, price/cost drops to the bottom line, volumes flat, up, you said the M&A on top and then the fixed cost is sort of taken care of through efficiencies. Is that fair?

We are very confident to continue to work on operational efficiencies. You have seen it in the past. I think the world-class manufacturing is something which is completely ingrained in the organization, and we are confident with that.

Harry, you want to jump on the next question and then I'll go back to Internet?

Yes. Just coming back on volumes, you talked about an expectation of, I think, is that volumes turning positive in the second half of the year. And then an answer to a separate question, Sreedhar was talking about the 3% post effect from acquisitions. Just to be clear, when you're talking about volume growth in the second half of the year, is that on an organic basis? And then separate but associated one, maybe if I look at the Q4 volume effect, didn't really show much improvement on Q3. So I guess the question is, are you seeing real improvements coming through in Europe? Or is this more an opinion you're taking on the trajectory for 2025?

Of course, when we mention the whole assumption on volumes, it's like-for-like. It is true organic growth, point number one, for '25. And point number two, on '24, there is an improvement on Q4 versus Q3. When you separate the working day impact, that was almost plus 2% in Q3. So if you take that out, we are improving in Q4 versus Q3. And clearly -- and you can see that across multiple segments, and Sreedhar highlighted multiple countries in Europe where we have improved or bottomed in already Q3 and improving Germany, U.K. bottoming up out -- sorry, in Q4 in France. So yes, it's like for like. And last year, quarter by quarter, we had exactly the scenario that we predicted at the beginning of the year with sequential improvement and low single-digit volume down for the full year. Thank you. I go back to the question now on Tobias Woerner from Stifel. Construction chemicals business is now sizable and compares very favorably with its global peers. Thank you, Tobias. We did not make sense to set it out separately in reporting across various segments, both in terms of sales and operating income. As I said, I think we will give you more color on construction chemicals overall at the Capital Market Day. We highlighted already quite a lot of touch points. The growth we had on construction chemical is 3.1% in the second half, slightly below that for the full year, but a very good momentum and also the margin. So to make sure that we give you what we need to report in terms of delivering well on the synergies. But yes, it's a sizable segment. There are also very attractive segments on multiple other areas, be it insulation, roofing, gypsum and the gold on all the solutions of Saint-Gobain, the depth and the richness and how we move on, on our solution journey. You heard it from Thierry Bernard. We are at the beginning of this solution journey. How does it improve the mix, the pricing power, the share of wallet within Saint-Gobain? Across the board, we will show that in depth. That will be the main topic of the Capital Market Day of October. Another question from Tobias. HPS did well in terms of maintaining its margins, especially in second half of '24. How did your glass business do within this in terms of margins? We do well in glass. If I take Brazil, Mexico, we had a nice evolution in India in the full year of 2024, even improving in the second half in Latin America with the recovery of Brazil. We have been impacted in Europe by the drop of volumes, clearly in glass, like in other segments. We are increasing the prices as we speak. We have announced multiple price increase across Europe in 2025. Keep in mind that there is still a bit of overcapacity on glass in Europe. Even though, when I look at what has been announced by various competitors, I think we have 5 float glass that have been put down -- shut down in Europe. We have done one in Germany. If I'm correct, there is one down that has been announced in Belgium, one in Spain, one in Italy and another one...

One in Germany by the competition.

In Germany. So altogether, there is still a bit of overcapacity, but we have announced, and we are very committed to price increase significantly for glass to improve. They are profitable in glass in Europe, but to improve the profitability going forward with the recovery of volumes going forward in Europe and also in glass, which has been an important journey over the years is the mix. We have more and more added value products in glass. And we are #1, for instance, on what we call COOL-LITE, the solar control and facade, which is an important business for us, where we have also solutions of [indiscernible]. So not only the pricing of raw glass, but also, of course, the mix is extremely important for us going forward on glass. Another -- and I think the last question from Tobias. Where do you see the structural margin improvement in '24 and '25 on a pro forma basis? I think it's a complex one. It's part of what we have encapsulated in our margin guidance, Tobias. And as always, we will do our best going forward. A question from Pierre Rousseau, Barclays. One region where margin is not yet the floor is Europe. What are the levers to increase margins in Europe? Well, two things. Of course, the first order of magnitude is recovery of activity in Europe. And as I said, we have green shoots. So we have stabilized. That doesn't mean that we will have positive volumes in Europe in the first half because we have stabilized below the level of the first half of '24. So it's only in the second half of '25 that we will start to see this gradual recovery. So that's the first parameter, of course. The second is this journey on solutions. All the richness of the mix, the pricing power is exactly what helped us to improve the margin in '24, despite the challenging environment. And the last piece is continue. We have been extremely committed, and I would like to congratulate and thank the teams in Europe for productivity actions, headcount reduction, proactive decisions. So we have been doing a lot of that across Europe in a tough market environment over the last 2 years. And this is the way we also protected our margin on the cost side. So we'll continue to work hard on the productivity in Europe. And of course, we will also reset and refresh the ambition for all the segments at the Capital Market Day. Another question from Pierre Rousseau. Could you comment on distribution specifically? What are current margin levels versus your objective? So we don't report specifically distribution margin because they are part of the French margin, the Nordic margin, et cetera. Based on -- as you know, we have a corridor of 6% to 7% operating margin for those businesses. In a very difficult environment, like I mentioned to you, last year for the '23 performance in the Nordics based on the very difficult challenging environment in Europe, in those 2 countries today, we are a bit below. This carried out, but I'm very confident that we have the structural quality of the business, well integrated as a country approach across the full value chain to come back to this type of very healthy margin. And I can tell you also that based on what has been reported segment by segment, we are clearly outperforming in the Nordics and in France, including on those different business segments. A question from Laurent Runacher. Congrats to Sreedhar. I think we stop there. Maybe just to raise, that seems to be filled at a very low level in Europe, which could put price up. What is your take, Sreedhar?

The energy, you've seen it has remained a little volatile in the last few weeks. If you see, it went up. And then the last few days, it's coming down. I continue to believe that I think with the crisis that the Europe has faced, I think each country has learned to find -- first of all, they found an alternate source of energy. They have also done a lot of other things to have a backup. I think the more and more, as you progress, I should see that there'll be more stability and the energy prices should evolve in a more right direction.

Maybe a question related to that from Pierre Rousseau. Could you give us the share of energy costs, specifically within the EUR 12 billion envelope for raw materials and energy in 2024?

Slightly more than EUR 2 billion, around EUR 2 billion, I would say.

And another question from Laurent Runacher. You mentioned more and more weather accidents due to climate change. Did you try to assess in the last years how much it brought in terms of additional activity? No, not specifically. But for me, it's obvious that, again, sustainable construction, it's not so much the CO2 content in a specific building. It means better buildings. So around the world, I have every confidence that sustainable construction is there to stay, regardless of any political debate. If I'm in the U.S., the President of a university, if I want to attract the best students, the best teachers, I need good air quality in the auditorium. I need good visual light. I need good energy performance. I need good acoustic performance. So I need better building. We have multiple situations where insurance carriers in the U.S. don't reimburse the roof repair if the homeowner doesn't buy a premium product, a better mix of products. So it's a level of activity that will unfortunately only go up because of more frequent extreme weather and improve the mix of Saint-Gobain. So we are working on, indeed, resilient buildings, better buildings without even mentioning the energy efficiency and the green value that is encapsulated in that, that I highlighted of the French example. So it is there to stay, and we are leading in terms of sustainable buildings and sustainable construction going forward. I think we have exhausted all your questions. So thank you very much for your time and attention. Again, we have a very strong equity story, so I'm very confident about the path and the journey of Saint-Gobain going forward. And solutions, our solutions journey will continue to accelerate, and we'll highlight that in October. We have now a very strong position across the different regions in terms of operating profit. North America, which is holding up well, and we have, as you know, a #1 position in U.S., Canada. There, Asia, emerging markets and Europe, benefiting from the gradual recovery in Europe. We are very much focused on value creation going forward for our shareholders, and we'll continue to rotate our portfolio with acquisitions and divestitures and cash flow. I can tell you that Sreedhar, among many, many other things, did a very nice transition to more than all the teams of Saint-Gobain. And of course, not only in Asia Pacific, but across the board, I will continue to get inspired by Sreedhar and all the efforts of all the colleagues of Saint-Gobain on cash. So thank you, and we will see you end of -- and talk to you end of April for the Q1 call. And again, congratulations, and many thanks to you, Sreedhar, and all the best to Asia Pacific. Thank you.

Thank you.