Concentrix Corporation (CNXC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

The second day of our technology conference. My name is Ruplu Bhattacharya and I cover IT hardware and electronics manufacturing services as well as Concentrix, which is in business services. So we're honored to have Andre Valentine, who's the CFO. Andre is no stranger to the industry. He came to Concentrix through the Convergys acquisition, but he has had decades of experience, and he's seen many different business cycles. So we hope to have a very good conversation today.

Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for having us here. appreciate it, Ruplu.

Also, we have Sara Buda. In the audience, if you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail her as well. So Andre, maybe I'll start with an overview of the overall macro and what end markets are doing. Give us the lay of the land, so to speak.

Yes. So not a whole lot of change from what we've been seeing in the macro. The macro continues to be challenging for many of our clients. And what it's leading to, though, is a real focus on how they transform their business and how they reduce costs. That could be looking at where work is done, perhaps suggesting that we move work to lower-cost geographies or certainly looking to how to automate less complex transactions, become more efficient and more effective in processing transactions as well. From an end market perspective, we see consumer and tech -- consumer electronics and tech as being relatively flat for us. That's because volumes are down underlying, but we're actually gaining share there. We're seeing a lot of interesting things in banking, financial services and insurance, where they're trying to transform how they interact with their customers. And so they're turning to us to not only run their operations, but also to consult with them on how they deliver the customer service and help them implement the systems on which they'll do that. Travel continues to be an anomaly in the current economy. We still see a good strength there. Let me go -- health care, a lot of cost pressure in health care, a lot of shore movement, but underlying volumes are up for us there. So that would be kind of where we see things.

What do you think the overall CX market is growing at? And remind us of what your guidance is for fiscal '25 organic growth as well as total growth?

Yes. We see the overall market as being flat to very, very low growth. And that's just a function of what we believe the macro and the cost pressures that clients are under. Transaction volumes -- underlying transaction volumes are not particularly strong and then a lot of cost pressure across the group. We've guided this year to 0% to 1.5% organic constant currency revenue growth and very, very focused on coming in at the top end of that range. So we did 1.3% revenue growth in Q1. We've guided to 50 basis points to 125 basis points of growth in Q2. And if we can move towards the high end of our guide for the full year, that implies a little bit of sequential pickup in the second half, not based on a view that the macro is going to improve, but really on a view that the work that we've signed and the strength of our pipeline.

Talk to us about sales cycles. Are they extended? Have they normalized? I mean how are deals closing?

Yes. We feel really good about the pipeline and the traction we're seeing there. So I wouldn't say that even in the current environment, the deals are slowing down. They're happening and moving forward at normal pace. We do have 1 sector of transactions that are taking longer, but they always do. And those are the longer, more transformational deals that have -- there's far more eyes on them, frankly, because we're really transforming how the clients deliver their customer service. And so for that reason, those deals take longer, but they always have. What we're really thrilled about is that there are so many of them in the pipeline.

All right. So let's transition to a topic that's on everybody's mind, which is generative AI. I mean, from what I remember, you have thousands of proof of concepts that you were working on. Talk to us about what innings are we in for those proof of concepts? And have any of them -- are they translating into contracts for you now?

I think what we're really seeing is that the clients have kind of moved into a stage where they're kind of tired of proof of concepts and flashy demos. What they really want is to see the technology, deploy it at scale and see real-world examples of where it works and can really drive an outcome for them. In our business, we've deployed generative AI across half of our clients and across half of our desktops. And clients are seeing real-world advantages from what we can do. And that's been the genesis of us now coming out with our iX suite of products because clients have seen the technology working in our centers and said, hey, that's something that can actually work for me in my business. And I might be interested in not only deploying that with you, Concentrix within your 4 walls, but perhaps in my own enterprise and perhaps some of my other outsourced providers.

So that's a good segue. Talk to us about this iX product line, and you have a recent announcement with iX Hero. What are these things? What is Concentrix investing in? And what are the areas of investment that you're focusing on? And what's the aim for these products?

Yes. So again, what we really saw was clients were interested in -- when they saw the technology that we had deployed, they were really interested in it. And so that led to some elevated investment by us to productize those tools. There are really 2 now that have been brought to market. iX Hello was launched back in September of 2024. And it is essentially an autonomous bot that multimodal LLM agnostic, et cetera, that can be deployed, and that would be focused on complete replacement of a human adviser. Then iX Hero, which we came out with in a commercialized version just earlier last month, is all around empowering a human adviser to be a superhero, to be more effective, more efficient, to get to the answer faster to have -- to say the right next thing based on how a call is going, all of that. And so -- and as we look at the interest in deploying generative AI by our clients, about 20% is focused on full automation and 80% of the opportunity is all around kind of supercharging that human adviser. And a lot of the automation -- the full automation is just going to replace older, less elegant automation, whether that be bots based on machine learning AI or RPA, et cetera.

So talk to us about what guardrails you have when you're investing? I mean, how do you know that you're getting the right returns? What metrics do you look at to know if you want to invest more or less?

No. We've been very forthright in our discussions with investors. We're making this investment because we think it's the right thing to do for the business. Where we deploy this technology, we've become far stickier with our clients, far more strategic in what we can do for them. But the investment isn't forever. It has to have a return. And so what we've said about it is by the end of this year, we need to see revenue from these products that turns the current drag on our margins to -- effectively neutralizes that. So we need to see that level of revenue uptake as we're exiting this year. If we don't, we'll rationalize the investment to a lower level. If we do, we'll keep investing in support of what we would hope would be a more robust revenue stream going forward.

So Andre, you've been doing all of these proof of concepts and now you have your own product line of iX suite of products. Has your thought on impact of generative AI changed? Meaning like do you think any differently in terms of whether Gen AI is positive or negative to the business? And how should investors think about that? Because this is something that has impacted businesses across the industry. So do you think generative AI is hurting is a threat? Or do you think that that's -- it's a tailwind?

No, we continue to see it as a tailwind, Ruplu. It is changing the conversations that we have with our clients. We are -- it is making us more strategic in those relationships. And we did a little survey with Everest looking at the generative AI market and the thoughts of clients as they look to deploy it. What was interesting and encouraging, this is a blind survey. Concentrix wasn't mentioned by name. 450 enterprises, some clients, some none. Two very encouraging things came back from that. One is most clients who were surveyed expect their level of outsourcing to increase as a result of generative AI as we look out over the next 3 to 5 years. The second thing is when they were asked who they would look to turn to for help in deploying the generative AI tools, Concentrix scored quite well. So we were there with many of the larger IT services providers and IT consultancies and way above any of our traditional CX peers. And that's all because in our mind, we've been on our front foot with the technology. We've invested in our own IP as well as invested in partnerships with leaders such as Salesforce, Microsoft, Google, AWS to really have the domain expertise to be able to help clients with this journey.

So is there a way to quantify the revenue impact to Concentrix from generative AI? And is there -- I mean, if an investor think that some call volume may go away because of agents taking care of that, is there an opportunity in, say, your Catalyst business to make up that? So how are you thinking about the revenue impact?

Absolutely. So with generative AI, we are looking to automate proactively 10% to 15% of our clients' transaction volume each year. Now that's very important. That's transaction volume. That equates, we believe, to about 2% of revenue. We think we can make that up in a number of different ways. Most exciting to us is the new services that we can do. I've already talked about the iX suite of software products. We're also now doing a lot of data labeling, data annotation, data analytics. That's a new source of revenue for us, all in support of launching generative AI because data is so important to being successful there. Then we're gaining share. So because we're doing this work within our clients, we're having these strategic discussions, driving these efficiencies for them, we're gaining share where they're taking work from other providers and moving it to us. And lastly, because we can do this work so well, they're outsourcing work that they've previously in-sourced and sending that to us. So we think net-net, we've given examples on past earnings calls of individual clients where, yes, we see some level of revenue headwind, but very quickly, our revenue and our profit dollars and profit margin with those clients come back up because we've deployed the technology.

Is Concentrix using AI internally as well? And can it help you in saving some cost, OpEx or CapEx?

Yes. So certainly, we're using it -- the most dynamic place that we're using it is actually in the delivery of the service. So we're becoming -- our advisers are becoming far more efficient. We are able to -- we used to have banks of people who would do quality monitoring and listening to phone calls and scoring them and et cetera, coaching the agents. All of that work now is done with generative AI. So that is driving efficiencies, how we use it in training, is driving both efficiencies and increased speed to proficiency for our advisers. So all of that is good. Certainly, there are opportunities for us in our back office as well as we look across functions like my own finance, our HR functions, even legal, procurement, we're seeing opportunities there. And what's interesting is a couple of those things that we've done internally to drive efficiencies have actually turned into use cases for iX Hello. So we have a tool -- a use case that we had within procurement. We've actually now licensed to a client procurement function. Something we were doing around legal. Again, we've licensed that to a client to use in their legal function. Certainly not what we thought we were getting into when we implemented the technology, but just shows the breadth of capabilities.

Got it. I want to go a little bit deeper into this generative AI space. If we look at this industry, most of the contracts are on an FTE, full-time employee basis. How would a generative AI contract be structured? I mean, how would you price that out?

Yes. So evolving for sure. And there's not 1 model. But as it relates to just the pure software, the iX suite, that is licensed on both a SaaS license basis per seat and per consumption. And that's true across both Hello and Hero. If we're deploying the software internally in support of a client, that takes many, many flavors. We could get recovery through bundling it into the pricing. We could get recovery through no change in pricing, but some gain share element or -- so it's just taking many, many different shapes.

So this industry has always tried to move towards outcomes-based pricing. Is it really feasible? And why would a customer sign up for outcomes-based pricing? Is it in their favor? Or is it in the favor of the supplier?

Yes. So this is where my gray hair betrays me, Ruplu, because I've been around the industry for a long time, and we've talked about outcomes-based pricing as the direction of things for over 10 years now. The fact of the matter is the industry is moving very, very slowly in that direction. And the amount of outcomes-based pricing that we do is probably 5% of our revenue or less and not moving up at any kind of drastic pace. Why would a client sign up for it? And what are the impediments? They'd sign up for it because they actually would get certainty regarding an outcome, right? So they would get a total cost of ownership or something like that, that we would be committing to in the process. The major impediment is in order for us to be comfortable signing up for that. We have to have control of more levers of the process. And until clients get more comfortable with that, that's the give and take. Now we did mention on our third quarter earnings call, a large financial services client that we won where there's a gain share component in that, where we're designing the process. We're implementing it for them and then running it for them. And they were willing to give us more control and longer term and give us a gain share, so it would all make sense for us from an economic perspective. So some movement in direction, it's really, really slow.

Okay. Now let's move on. Let's talk about Webhelp. So that, I think, was a strategic acquisition you guys did. Talk to us about like where that stands in terms of integration. And one of the things was in terms of you had a different footprint across regions and they could help you in Europe. Have you seen any benefit from that? Have you had any revenue synergies come by?

Yes. We're thrilled with the transaction and the integration has gone quite well. So we closed on that transaction in September of '23. And I'm pleased to say we're fully integrated now. We went live in my area, we went live on [ 1 ERP ] beginning of this year. So that is behind us. We're at the run rate of synergies of the $120 million that we talked about when we announced the deal. And so we feel great about that. This was a really important transaction to us. It really gives us a unique position in our industry where roughly 1/3 of our revenues are generated from the Americas, roughly 1/3 from EMEA and roughly 1/3 from Asia Pac. And it really rounded out our scale in both Europe and Latin America to get to that kind of a position. It brought some great clients with us. And with those clients, we've seen -- and our clients, we've seen revenue synergies for sure. We've seen situations where a client of Concentrix that was a U.S.-based retailer who has operations, clients -- customers in Europe, we were able to leverage the Webhelp footprint there to grow that relationship. Similarly, with some of their clients that were in the retail space, we've been able to leverage and drive real cost efficiencies for them by moving a portion of that work to the Philippines as well as deploying across a lot of their client base, the catalyst tools and other tools that we have in the business. So absolutely thrilled with it. thrilled that the integration is behind us, very focused now on generating the strong free cash flow, paying down the related debt to our -- the levels we've talked about on the transaction while returning capital to shareholders.

Got it. So when we think about Webhelp and the Concentrix, how would you compare that to the other big players like TP and Majorel? I mean, do you think from a footprint standpoint or from a capability standpoint, you guys now have an advantage over them?

We think we do. And 2 areas where I think we have an advantage. And it's really not about footprint. I do think we could argue footprint with Teleperformance all day long, their footprint is quite good as well. It's really about capabilities. We mentioned Catalyst and the digital IT services capabilities that we have. That is a unique advantage for us against Teleperformance and frankly, anybody else in our traditional CX space. They really don't have the ability to design and build the customer experience, not just run it, but design and build it at scale the way that we do. And then versus the IT services providers, we have the advantage there of being able to actually have the domain expertise to actually run the centers and not just do the design build phase.

Okay. So you mentioned Catalyst a couple of times. I mean, how large is that business? Talk to us those in the audience who don't know, like what are the services that Catalyst provides? And what is the margin profile of that business versus the overall business?

Yes. So margin profile is relatively similar to the rest of the business. What that business does, and we're thrilled that we have it, it's everything from digital engineering to all the consulting and design work that I've talked about, the data analytics business is there, data lakes, et cetera. And so would compete with pure-play digital IT services companies like EPAM, Globant, et cetera, but also allows us to compete, for instance, in that financial services client that we won, it was the catalyst capabilities that allowed us to compete and win against nontraditional -- none of the competitors in that deal were traditional CX BPO players. They were large consultancies, household names, and we were able to win because we were and existing -- it was an existing client. We had the domain expertise, and we had those capabilities to do the upfront work.

Okay. So let's talk a little bit about pricing. I mean, how are contracts structured in terms of length of contract? How are labor rates trending across different geographies? And are you able to, in between a contract, go back to a customer and ask for more -- a different price level? Or do you have to wait for the end of a contract?

Yes. So the contracts tend to be 2 to 3 years in length. And the beauty about this business as a CFO is I don't walk around with a Rolodex of when is that contract going to expire. The revenue retention in this business is extremely high. Between years, we typically -- where we actually lose a client and have no revenue for the client in the following year, that is a 1% to 1.5% headwind each year. That is an amazing level of revenue retention. We're very proud of it. We're proud of our top 25 client relationships, on average clients for 16 to 17 years. And so again, when we -- you asked about pricing in the middle of a term, that depends a bit on the environment, right? So we certainly saw ability back earlier this decade as we were -- as labor rates were increasing at an outsized pace, particularly in North America and parts of Europe, we were able to go to clients mid-contract and seek pricing adjustments. In the current macro environment, that's much harder to do. I'll be honest with you. Luckily, to your question on labor rates, we've seen global labor inflation given the macro backdrop, tamp down a bit. And so we're able to keep up with those increases by driving efficiencies using technology and other tools.

Let's talk about another fun topic, tariffs. And so you've gone through Trump 1.0 and now we're at 2.0. Have you seen any impact to overall end demand to customer behavior? And then I remember last time, there was this talk of a surtax. So companies who provided service to U.S. companies from outside the U.S., supposedly the administration was going to put a surtax on that. Any talk of that now? And so just your overall thoughts on how you're managing through this?

Yes. We're not seeing any discussion right now of any surtax or any other tax ramifications about our global footprint and how we serve our clients. As it relates to tariffs, it's a bit of a mixed bag. We're not seeing a tremendous impact across our client base. The real focus is does it -- what does it do to demand for these end markets? We're large in consumer electronics and technology. Does it have an impact there, et cetera. What our clients basically want is certainty, right? And so it is making it harder for them to plan. And so they would like to have certainty, whether it be tariffs or not, and then they'll go forward. But right now, not seeing a significant impact on the client base.

Sorry, coming back to Webhelp a little bit. Can you remind us what was the total target synergy for that? And did you exceed that? You've -- in prior acquisitions, you've always exceeded your targets. What about -- and then remind us of the integration costs because I think this was the first time that you actually had costs associated with the integration. So where do we stand with that?

Yes. So the synergy target for the transaction was $120 million, and we hope to get there by the third year after the transaction closed. That's where our run rate is now. I think if Chris was sitting here, he would say he would like to see us go and get more. But this is a different transaction for us in that -- it was an asset that was well performing. It was in -- there was less geographical overlap. And so the synergies in this transaction, for instance, weren't as large as the synergies in the Convergys transaction, where we came in at $225 million. So we feel good about the progress we've made there. On the integration cost, a major use of free cash flow for the first 2 years post transaction. So one of the reasons we're so confident in our free cash flow generation this year and the step-up from $475 million last year to $625 million to $650 million this year is we had $155 million of integration costs last year. Those step down to about $65 million this year, and they go away next year. So not only will that drive free cash flow improvement this year, but reason to believe free cash flow goes up in 2026.

So if Webhelp is on track, things are going okay, my question would be what's next in the pipeline? And if I look at the history of Concentrix, I mean, the company has grown through acquisitions, whether it's starting with IBM, Convergys was a big one, PK, [ Minacs ]. So talk to us about the propensity for further M&A at this point. I mean, are you guys looking at organic growth? Or do you think that inorganic growth can be another driver?

No. First and foremost, we are very focused on organic growth. There is a valuation disconnect in our stock. And we believe it is because of the overhang of generative AI and the fact that we are growing in low single digits. So we are very focused on getting our growth rate up to mid-single digits. We've not given a time horizon for that. It's certainly not this year, may not be in '26. But we think in that medium term, we can get there. So very, very focused on that. Right now, from an inorganic growth perspective, we are still digesting Webhelp and very focused on bringing the debt levels down, right? And so that doesn't mean we're out of the M&A market, but anything we would do right now would be smaller in scale. Our leverage at the end of last quarter was right around 3x. We think we can get it down to 2.5 to 2.6x by the end of this year. If we do that, then we'll have more option value, frankly, as we look out through the -- out into '26. We'll have a little dry powder. If something came up opportunistically for some accretive M&A, we could look at that. Obviously, we will still be focused on paying down debt. And then obviously, we have our share buyback and dividend.

So now that you're integrated with Webhelp can you remind us what is the delivery mix of the business? How much is onshore? How much is nearshore, offshore? And this was one of the competitive disadvantages, I think, at one point because you had a lot of nearshore or onshore manufacturing support. So has that changed? And you had talked about some customers, I think, in Europe who are trying to move offshore. How is that going? And how does that impact revenues and operating margin?

Yes. Great question. So the portion of our revenue that is onshore and could easily -- could be moved for labor arbitrage is about the 10% of revenue that we generate in the U.S. and about 15% of revenue that we generate in Western Europe. We don't think that combined 25%, certainly doesn't go to 0. We think that continues to come down, probably settles out in the mid- to upper teens from a percentage of revenue perspective. Our pure offshore revenue, which includes certainly India and the Philippines, but now includes a large presence in North Africa and South Africa represents about 35% of revenue. That leaves you with roughly 15% of revenue that I classify as nearshore. And if the math doesn't work, I haven't actually put catalyst revenues, that 7% to 8% of revenue in a geography because it's a bit of a different service. And so that's how we would see it. Certainly, we feel really good about our global footprint. And so as work moves offshore, if it's moving out of North America, we can move it nearshore Latin America. We can move it to India and Philippines. And when that happens, yes, revenue gets compressed, margin dollars stay the same, margin goes up. We also have -- thanks to the Webhelp combination, a far more robust presence in Northern Africa, which is -- and in Turkey, which is really important for European languages and of course, English as well. And so again, as work is moving out of Western Europe, we're catching that work again. Some of its English, we'll catch in India or the Philippines or South Africa or Egypt. If it's in French, we'll catch it in Tunisia, Morocco, Madagascar, et cetera. And if it's German, we'll catch it in Eastern Europe or Turkey. So again, all part and parcel of why we did the Webhelp combination, and we feel great about the footprint. As that work moves, it's good for us long term from a margin perspective.

Andre, a question I get from investors often is you have a whole suite of non-voice services, IVR content moderation, gig services, voice of the customer. How should investors think about the revenue contribution and the margin profile of that -- of those set of businesses?

Yes. So the data engineering piece is a decent sized piece of design engineering, a decent piece of the work that we do in what we refer to as Catalyst. Content moderation is another meaningful part of our business as well. Moving down in stack rank order, data analytics would come up next. That's one we're very excited about and think has a lot of growth potential for us. And then further down the line, you've got IVR, voice of the client and the gig platform is relatively small from a revenue generation perspective.

Got it. You used to talk about new economy clients or disruptor clients. Is that a client set that makes sense to talk about separately? Or are their growth rates now similar to other clients?

Yes. They were -- it made sense to talk about them when they were -- had outsized growth rates and different needs. And they had the need that came from working with a global provider with us that could handle their expansive growth, take them global, et cetera. What we always said, and we actually had a chart on this at our Investor Day back in '22 was that we saw the needs of enterprise clients and new economy clients merging. And that's exactly what's happened. Under the current macro, the -- what we used to refer to as new economy clients far more interested in driving down cost. So automation has become a part of that discussion as is shore moving. And so still growing probably faster. It's not something we actually keep tabs on. I think it's still growing faster than the whole, but not so much so that I would break it out separately.

Okay. can we talk about CapEx and free cash flow? I mean, with Webhelp now, I mean, are you happy with the footprint that you have? Do you think that you'll have to -- are there any call centers that you're closing down? Are you greenfielding any facilities? And so how should we think about annual CapEx? And then free cash flow, how should we think about that as well?

Yes. So I'll answer the last 2. From a CapEx perspective, pretty consistently runs in the 2.5% of revenue range, which means it will be roughly $240 million or so this year. I think about what we'll generate this year in terms of free cash flow as a percentage of adjusted net income, it will be in the low 80s, maybe right around 80%. Remember, it's still being burdened by some integration costs. So maybe going forward, as those drop off, it moves a little bit closer to the mid-80s. From a footprint perspective, we've gone through a pretty significant transition. As we entered COVID or as COVID hit, we had a situation where as much as 70% of our work quickly moved to work from home. We have seen that percentage come down dramatically to where now roughly 80% of our work is done in a center. And so we are -- part of that CapEx is adding capacity where we have demand, and that's in India, Southeast Asia. It's certainly across Northern Africa and South Africa and in Latin America. And so all of that, though, is encapsulated in the 2.5% of revenue that we'll spend on CapEx and our free cash flow conversion expectations.

Maybe talk to us a little bit about seasonality in this business. I remember that between 3Q and 4Q, you typically have a strong revenue growth quarter. And then as we look from 1Q to 4Q, I mean, operating margins take a significant growth. Even this year, I think if you look at the margin progression that's forecasted based on your annual yearly forecast, there's a significant ramp of operating margin in the back half. So talk to us about like what drives that? And with Webhelp now in the mix, does that remain consistent?

It does. And so the drivers are certainly top line growth and getting programs. The top line growth is a combination of seasonal volumes in e-commerce, in consumer electronics, et cetera. It's open enrollment season in health care. All of those things tend to have that be a strong revenue quarter for us. And that means we're driving very, very high utilization of both our human assets and our physical assets. And that's what you see playing through in the margin profile. Obviously, longer term, what we hope for in terms of margin is more progression. And so getting our iX suite to the point where we're generating revenue there and having it flow through at SaaS-like margins, that's important to us. Getting into ancillary services and helping clients implement generative AI, managed services around generative AI, all higher-value services, that helps. Getting rid of the 7% of our work in 2024 that we said was relatively commoditized and having that step down to 5% this year and even lower, that will help. And then we're very excited about some of the work we're doing. We talked a couple of quarters ago about this $1 billion of revenue that is all Gen AI powered that is relatively new to the business. That's B2B sales enablement, financial crimes, compliance work. It's the data annotation and labeling that I talked about. All those things, we think, can grow faster, and they're all higher-margin services for us. So yes, our margins are seasonal. We think there's an opportunity to take margins up as we exit 2025 and look at 2026 and beyond.

Got it. So we've got exactly 2 minutes left, and I want to squeeze two questions in. So can you talk about the federal business? And have you seen any impact from those? And is there -- are you interested in increasing the exposure to federal like TTEC has a big federal business in the U.S. I mean would you consider some of that? And then finally, the last question would be, what do you think the market is missing about the Concentrix story? And why is now the right time to invest in this business?

Yes. So we don't really have any federal programs. So we help some of our health care clients, large U.S. payers with member services for their Medicare clients, but that really is it. So we don't really expect an impact there. I don't think -- we've focused on the verticals that we've focused on and government has not been one of those. And I don't think strategically, we look to change that. Look, the thing that's really misunderstood about Concentrix is how it has continued to evolve with technological changes in the industry. What we are doing today looks nothing like what we were doing 10 to 15 years ago, and that is going to be true as we look out 10 to 15 years from now. We've evolved. We've leaned in on disrupting our business with technology, and we see generative AI as a tailwind for the business. And I think I've given examples of why we feel that. What we're going to focus on is the things we can control. We cannot control investor perception. What we can control is executing, increasing our growth rate while sustaining bringing our margins up a bit, generating strong free cash flow and using that strong free cash flow to pay down some debt, but also return it to shareholders. And I think if we do that, investors will figure out that we're here for the long term, and we're going to keep growing, and there's more to Concentrix than they think.

Okay. So we're out of time, but we've covered a lot of ground. So thanks, Andre. Thanks for being here. Thanks for all the details.

Great. Thank you.