Conduit Holdings Limited (CRE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Conduit Holdings Limited Full Year Results Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question it received in the meeting itself. However, the company can review the questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Trevor Carvey. Good afternoon to you, sir.

Thanks very much, Alessandro. Thanks very much, and welcome to everybody. We've got a short deck to walk you through around the business generally, but also obviously around year-end results and developments in the first quarter to some extent. The next slide up. Thanks. So first slide, summary slide really Conduit at a glance, the split of the business between the property casualty and specialty lines, which I'll go into more detail, sentiment around those as I go through and written premium, $1.16 billion written through 2024. A number of you will be aware that we're based in Bermuda, 65 employees currently and a multiline reinsurer. By that, we mean we cover the breadth of classes across first-party property, third-party casualty and specialty, which sits, if you like, as an interim class between the two. Again, more details on those later. Listed on the London Stock Exchange 2020 as the start of IPO. 2024 performance, I'll go into that in a moment, but 12.7% ROE. Dividend per share that we've held through year-end, and then some notes around our capital situation and the A.M. Best rating, A-, which we've been from the outset of the company, but just recently moved to positive outlook. So with that, we can get into the more detailed slides and work through the business. Yes. So first on premiums. In '24, we obviously continued to grow the portfolio, but that's very much across where the conditions supported it. Property, Casualty and Specialty all moving at different rates. And we saw good growth as flagged up here in the property department and specialty in particular, but casualty was also playing its part. We grew 25% to just over $ 1.1 billion. It's very much around selecting the risks from a wide submission flow that we get as a business here in Bermuda. We see a very large amount of global business. So we are able to build a portfolio that does embrace risk from a vast number of territories and countries. Currently, we are more predominated towards the U.S. It's just where that market has moved faster in the last 3 years. It's reacted to particularly the NatCat losses that have arisen. So from a property standpoint, we are more skewed towards that. But we do see an awful lot of business from other parts of the world. It's just very often at the moment, the pricing of those doesn't get to or beyond our minimum rating hurdle. On combined ratio, which is essentially performance, the discounted combined ratio is 86%. It's up from 72.1% last year. And that's primarily due to some increased cat activity to '24 where there was a significant, I'd say, increase in frequency of natural and man-made catastrophes that basically were impacting the industry the year overall for 2024 was close to record-breaking in $140 billion of natural perils losses that occurred through the 12 months of 2024. And in that respect, we come on to it with an ROE when the financial summary page, delivering on that return of just under 13% in a year when there's a record number of Cats is something which I think we can be proud of. Two major losses last year, Hurricanes Milton and Helene were probably the 2 larger ones. And as I mentioned, they had an impact on the overall business. We had $68 million of losses across those two events, which is about 9.4% contribution to the undiscounted loss ratio for 2024. So as a counterpoint to the higher loss activity is the investment portfolio, which performed well. Net investment return was $66.1 million, that was down slightly from the prior year, but that's largely down to lower unrealized gains, which is really reflecting changes in interest rates and spreads. I suppose importantly, a larger part of the investment return was from net investment income, and that's down to higher book yield on the growing investment portfolio. In terms of comprehensive income, we produced $125 million overall through the year. ROE, as I said, at 12.7%. Net tangible assets per share, they ended the year at $6.70. It's including -- the growth in net tangible assets per share was just under 13%, 12.9%. And as I said, I think that's a reasonable result in a year with more than $140 billion of natural peril losses out there. Next slide, please. Yes, we [indiscernible] next slide. Sorry, the slide just gone on a descent. Okay. All right. So essentially, I'll talk this slide. Apologies, the slide that come in I wasn't expecting. But essentially, this is largely what I've just gone through. So repeating the figures, the growth that we see 25% and then running through down to the comprehensive income for the year, $125 million. spoke about the final dividend. Probably the last 2 points are the ones that we highlight on top of the numbers I've already spoken to. The balance sheet is still very strong. We've grown into that since we launched the business. The BSCR, which is the solvency ratio is estimated at 269%, and that's after allowing for the impact of the wildfire losses that have occurred in the -- early in the first quarter this year. I'll speak about those in a moment. But we often get a question around headroom for growth. Can we still grow going forward with the capital we've got? And the answer fundamentally is yes. Our business plan going out over the next 3 to 5 years, where we still expect to grow appropriately when the market is there. We're able to do that without raising further equity or debt. We stay alert to other mechanisms, other capital avenues that are out there in the market. But certainly in terms of where the plan is set and where we see the business trending subject to market conditions, we certainly have plenty of headroom to still grow into that. Next slide. Yes. So on overall growth in written premiums, we certainly carried on that growth of 25% through the entirety of 2024. And overall, we've written more than $3 billion since the company came into effect. And that's quite a good landmark. If you look at how we have grown over that period of time, we certainly delivered a relevance and a presence in the market. And I think that's become really valued across client base and the partners that we've established in the different lines of business. As I said, we're highly selective around the way that we construct the portfolio. That balance of property, casualty specialty over the years of [ '21 ] the inherent growth there. But we've maintained that balance through the piece. Property has grown at a faster rate, but that's more a recognition of the market improvements, the market moves that have been made there relative to, shall we say, to some of the casualty classes. Casualty Trust, just a word around that. We built that portfolio from scratch in '21 -- those same clients and just grown with them and then added additional new partnerships as we've got through more into '23 and '24. It's a really good space. The casualty business for us is an area where -- we're still dialing it, if you like, setting the reserves around it at a conservative level. The portfolio generally takes 5 years, 4 to 5 years before you really start to get an emerging picture that you can react to in terms of the way that you manage reserve releases. But a point that we often get asked about in the industry is what sort of trends are you seeing on that casualty loss ratio and claims experience. And we reiterated again on the call yesterday that the pricing picks that we made when we wrote the business in '21, '22, '23, we haven't moved those. So we still are very comfortable with those loss picks that we made, the expectations around those. We carry a management load on top of those, which is reflected in the combined ratio that we posted for casualty, which is essentially kind of 98% to 99% combined ratio level. So we're not reflecting a profited margin by releasing reserves from that at this stage, but we're very comfortable with the way that we've currently dialed those ultimate loss picks. Piece around rate change overall, you can see somewhat lumpy in the index starting with 100% in '21 and then arriving now in '24. We're still seeing positive net rate change, risk-adjusted rate change in the current year, which is up. There's a degree to which in the context of the wildfires, I'll come off to the wildfires in a moment. That will undoubtedly drive rate change -- it's a large loss, and we're already seeing signs in the market for the March and April renewals. There's some significant rate increases that are being quoted in the reinsurance market, in our market for property renewals, particularly in the states. I think it will have less impact on more far-reaching territories. Japan is a large renewal season, 1st of April. A lot of that Japanese business is renewed on the reinsurance side. I think we're likely to see a material move in rate change there driven out of the impact of the California wildfires. But it's certainly reset the market partly in the States. Next slide. Yes. So just around January renewals. As we said, the rates were down modestly overall. Particularly around the property side, we saw some softening in the property market, in the excess of loss, which is catastrophe volatility embracing covers. They came off in terms of rate, in some cases, by 10% to 15% overall in the market. Ours is less at minus 5% by virtue of the fact that more of a ground-up proportional quota share portfolio where for us, the [indiscernible] impact is much less. The specialty side, I've spoken about that a lot so far. Specialty for us is essentially the class of business, which it's predominated by non-cat business. The specialty when you think about it is in our portfolio, it's very light in cat exposure. So specialist buildings, which again, are not particularly exposed to catastrophe. And then in some cases, specialty is also for us, more should we say, more esoteric classes around casualty pieces like environmental liability, which we write some of that in our specialty portfolio. But we wouldn't really treat as full-blown third-party general liability, but some of the more specialist casualty third-party come in there. Additionally, classes in there, which we could write, but we're very low in as aviation. Aviation and space is often quoted as a class that sits in company specialty portfolios. Aviation market to our extent is largely ineffective. And I won't say completely broken, but the rates that are achievable -- premium rates achieved in aviation. Certainly, in my career, over many decades, I've rarely seen the aviation market being an chatty place to deploy capacity. Last comment really, just reaffirming the strong balance sheet, and providing we see the classes moving in the right direction, we will deploy. And to put that into context across Property, Casualty and Specialty, we probably have subclasses underneath that in the region of 24, 25 of them spread across Property, Casualty and Specialty. And we think of them as kind of elevators. They move up and down at different rates. And over the last 3 years, particularly, generally, they've trended upwards, which is why you've seen that growth from our portfolio. There are some classes now within parts of the property, I've already flagged that have started to dip down and some of the specialty classes like aviation that we call out, we monitor and watch them and those are classes where the rate adequacy elevators on the way down and the ones that we step up. That's basically designed around creating a portfolio, which is there to manage the cycle as it evolves through. Next slide, please. Topic which will all be in the press, Major industry loss, there's no doubt about that impacted many homeowners in the area -- in the affected areas. There were essentially 2 fires, Palisades and Eaton that have merged into what the insurance industry is describing as one event. But it's another reminder of the scale of the loss really, to some degree, the service of the insurance and the reinsurance community provides in -- as the rebuilding takes place. Big point to flag up here is there's still considerable uncertainty around the [indiscernible] and the tail nature of it. It was -- I'll briefly touch on the catastrophe models and the models that they use to try and forecast the frequency of large events and how often they come around. They are inherently more reliable around the frequent events like wind, which as every month or every quarter goes by year-on-year, there's a bigger data set around how strong wind and hurricane losses are, where they're going around the world and they become part of a large data set. So the data is more reliable. On wildfire, it's been very much more sparse in terms of the data. So the models for the California wildfire, if we work on the basis that the range is in that sort of $35 billion to $50 billion estimate, and that's often quoted at the moment by modeling agencies and other monitoring agencies. And there's an estimate around range of how large the loss could be. We sort of recognize that. We can put it to print and wouldn't do in terms of what our actual view is because at the moment, it's still early in the losses evolution. But I think that $35 billion to $50 billion range is certainly reasonable. And the return period of that sort of scale in the model was anywhere between 200 and 500 years to put in the sense of how the models were there. We know the accuracy of predicting the return of these models is an imprecise science. And we spend our entire time here in that modeling unit essentially of being pessimistic around those frequencies at the tail and loading them and bringing them into a more reasonable distribution rate. But on this one, even with our load, it's still had it sitting out as a very much an unexpected tail event. We obviously come up with an estimate up here for us. The net loss range, ultimate undiscounted net loss is between $100 million and $140 million. Net of that we always put the end of that and that together where it's after net of the reinsurance that we have and then any additional sort of contingent premiums, which are sometimes paid on policies where the losses occurred. It's just a feature of some of the contracts. So we're saying $100 million to $140 million. And we've come up with that by contracts line by line, talking to clients and working through their own estimates. And essentially, they come to us with a range in a number of cases themselves. And what we've done here is build that up to a public disclosure and a public announceable amount of between $100 million and $140 million. Just in terms of what does that look like in the context of our overall portfolio, put it into some sort of context for losses of this type, we budget annually between $40 million and $50 million. That's the best way to think about it. So the additional you can see above that reflects the extent of the surprise and the shock that's there in the industry and is starting to be reported out through a number of the year-end quarterly earnings calls. For us, again, put into context for the year, clearly, it's only February, and there's a long way to go. There's another 10 months to go. But from the way that we believe that this will impact the portfolio, we've made a public statement that based on the current forecasts and looking at our plan ahead and the expectation we have around rates and opportunities in the market, we believe that we can still deliver an ROE in the low to mid-teens for 2024. I mean that's clearly dependent on loss activity for the rest of the year, as I said, and also how the investment markets react to a degree or how they play out. But providing there's a reasonable loss activity through the rest of the year, we think that target or that future guidance, if you like, around the ROE of low to mid-teens is certainly achievable. Financial highlights. I'll just pass it over to Brett, who will run through.

Yes. Thanks, Trevor. Just to hit on a few of the financial highlights from 2024. Some of these will be a bit of a repeat, but we recorded $1.16 billion of gross premiums written for full year 2024. This compares to $931.4 million in 2023, so almost a 25% year-on-year increase. As you may know, our business mix does favor quota share over excess of loss. So we have a bit of the 2024 underwriting year that we'll still continue to write into 2025, but subject to any ongoing adjustments to estimates, all other prior underwriting years are fully written now. Just over half of our 2024 underwriting year is earned. So a substantial amount remains to earn into 2025. Moving down the table, our reinsurance revenue, which broadly speaking, is IFRS 4 gross premiums earned less ceding commissions was $813.7 million for the year compared to $633 million for the prior year, which was a 28.5% increase year-on-year, reflecting the growth strategy. I would note that, as Trevor mentioned, each of our 3 divisions experienced fairly robust growth during 2024. And you see that coming through in both the gross premiums written and the reinsurance revenue lines. Turning to the net reinsurance revenue, $720 million in 2024 compared to $556.3 million in the prior year, totaling 29.4% year-on-year growth. Now that does [indiscernible] expense in the year of $93.7 million compared to $76.7 million in the prior year. Our outwards cover has increased a bit year-on-year again as the inwards book has grown. And we also sponsored our first cat bond in June of 2023, which provides cover on a 3-year term. On the loss side of the business, 2024 was another active year in terms of industry losses, a number that's been cited by a number of sources is $140-plus billion of industry insured catastrophe losses during the year. 2024 did have a different makeup of the losses than 2023. We saw this resulted from a broad mix of events, both risk losses such as events like the Baltimore Bridge collapse as well as several smaller and midsized natural catastrophe events across the globe as well as several more significant events such as Hurricane Milton and Hurricane Helene. As a predominantly quota share underwriter, Conduit did pick up its fair share of those losses. Across Hurricanes Helene and Milton, we had a net impact after reinsurance and reinstatement premiums of $68 million. This had a 9.4% impact on our undiscounted loss and combined ratio and an 8.5% impact on our discounted loss and combined ratio. Now looking at the components of our combined ratios a little bit more closely. Our undiscounted loss ratio for the year was 84.4% versus 68% in the prior year. The difference there primarily being driven by the -- some of those events that I just discussed in 2024. Our net discounted loss ratio was 73.3% versus 58.2% for the prior year. You can see a slightly higher impact from discounting on the 2024 ratio compared to the prior year, and this was primarily driven by the higher loss ratio, which was somewhat offset by the relative impact of movement in interest rates year-on-year as well as a slight reduction in the duration of our reserves. Our combined reinsurance operating expense and other operating expense ratios were 12.7% versus 13.9% in the prior year, trending down in line with expectations, as we've previously discussed as the business continues to gain scale. Our combined ratio on a discounted basis was 86% versus 72.1% for the prior year. On an undiscounted basis, the combined ratio was 97.1% compared to 81.9%. Turning to the investment side for a moment. Our net investment return was 4% for the year versus 5.8% in the prior year. We'll go into a bit more detail on this when we turn to the next slide. And just to close out here, our return on equity for 2024 was 12.7% compared to 22.0% in the prior year. Moving on to the next slide. Just a quick overview of the investment portfolio. It's a highly conservative portfolio focused on liquidity, very high credit ratings and a modest duration. Our book yield at the end of 2024 was 4.1% compared to 3.7% at the end of 2023. This results in the portfolio earning more income than in the prior year as we saw a substantial increase in net investment income. The business is also generating more cash now, and our invested assets have increased meaningfully year-on-year. So that, along with the higher book yield, it produces more income as well. Overall, for the year, we had a small net unrealized gain. As noted in the previous slide, our investment return for the year was 4%. This compares to the 5.8% generated in the prior year, which was driven by a sizable reduction in yields in the fourth quarter of that year. Some of the specifics of the portfolio duration just continues to nudge up very slightly, up to 2.5 years from 2.4 years as of the end of the prior year. The average credit quality remains AA, and you can see the pie chart of the asset allocation breakdown. Just to close out on investments here. The slide shows both the cash investments in the portfolio as well as the net investment income. As you can see, as we've grown the business, the portfolio has increased pretty substantially in size. Our investment leverage is now up to 1.7. We generated $65 million of net investment income in 2024. That was a 57.4% increase over the prior year and making a significant contribution. I'll now hand it back to Trevor for some closing comments.

Okay. Thanks, Brett. I think a lot of these are summary points from the slides that we've already talked through. But just basically in summary, '24 was a good year for us in terms of the progress that we've made, still growing strongly, and the market is still there in front of us. So we saw that good growth through the year. And the ROE of 12.7% is pretty good in the context of the scale of the market loss. We did produce a 22% ROE in '23, but that was largely driven by lower loss activity and also some of the unwind on the realized gain on the investment portfolio. We always remain focused, highly focused approach to building the portfolio and how we go about building that. Clients are always reviewed very much ground up as to how they continue to write their business, how we then reinsure them, the basis on what that reinsurance structure is. And as I said before, on casualty, that's really important to understand exactly how clients are underwriting and changing policy forms if they are year-on-year as to how that could increase or decrease our own claims experience. So that's very much a ground-up approach as a reinsurer, not typical of all reinsurers. We take a more top-down approach. But for us, it's very important to understand what's going on at that grassroots level. I mentioned already where pricing is very attractive generally, but some classes we've already called out where there's been some softening. And we've actually, through the course of '24, I can think of a couple of classes where we have actually started to cut back our involvement because we see the signs of the market softening. And that was actually a point around some of the property catastrophe business at Jan 1, where rates came off 15% or even 20% in some cases. In the main, we were on those, but we offered them new and largely we declined. So we are underweight in terms of pure property catastrophe having gone through the Jan 1 renewal season. And there's an element there of keeping the powder dry for the renewal seasons, which come through typically April, May and June. Yes. So probably in closing, and we can move to Q&A. The balance sheet is really strong, as I said already, we got over $1 billion in capital at year-end, no debt and conservative investment portfolio will continue. A.M. Best, as we said, we revised the financial strength rating outlook positive from stable, and we've got the headroom for growth. So we're focused on driving long-term returns for shareholders. I think we've built a business that's got a strong underwriting culture. We follow it from the ground up level. We understand what goes on in the underlying markets, a very good distribution network, as I said, accessing business globally here on the island. It's a very efficient way to access business. Probably last of all and our own costs and structure, we do -- as we said we would do, we do run the business on a very competitive operating expense, which is sort of in that sort of sub-5 level. We knew we would get there over time, but it does give us a significant edge or advantage particularly as the market softens. We've got an edge there, we think, over the competition in terms of a head start when it comes to producing a margin and the combined ratio over the year. So thanks for your time and we should move to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] We'll get straight into the questions with the first one here, which reads as follows. How does the company view its future growth prospects following the recent industry losses?

Okay. The growth prospects that we thought we had when we put the plan together basically got a bit better, particularly in the property arena. So we have said on the broader open market call that having gone to January 1, we saw good double-digit increase in premiums written at Jan 1 -- soften in some areas, and we held back. So I think if anything, as I said before, parts of the property market, particularly in the states are really going to uptick now. So overall, the recent industry losses through '24 and wildfire really served to increase demand for what we sell. The companies want to buy more cover. So in that respect, [indiscernible]. Move to the next one. Yes. How did Conduit manage to reduce its total reinsurance and other operating expense ratio? That's essentially by virtue of continuing growing our business faster than we're growing our additive cost. Good example, writing 11% more premium at Jan 1, so double-digit growth at Jan 1 is achieved without adding any additional resource or staff over the course of the period to achieve that. So the systems and the costs that we put into that are some costs that we continue to invest. But it's really around ability to continue to write business. And in the reinsurance world, it's probably the key to it. When we write a contract here, typically, we are alongside a number of other reinsurers. And for example, we could have 5% of a contract and maybe we write that 5% in the first year. As we get to year 2 and we start to really appreciate and like what a client is doing, and we think it's marginally accretive to the portfolio, we can move that from a 5% to 7.5%. And that's where growth then comes from. So I think often in the world of insurance growth is associated with, you've got to sell more policies, you've got to sell another 1,000 homeowners or another 10,000 motor policies. That's very difficult to do. And that's where expense comes with it. But in our world, we're essentially writing the same contract, just changing our share of it. And that's really where the efficiency gains sit within the reinsurance world.

The next question here, how has Conduit performed compared to its initial IPO targets? And what factors contributed to this outcome?

Yes. So overall, when we set the business up, we set out to grow the business over 5 years to just shy of $1 billion. So on that measure, we are considerably ahead with $1.1 billion written through our fourth year. And that's really the tailwind that's been there from the marketplace. Rate adequacy was stronger than we thought. The demand has really increased for areas where clients want to buy more cover. The casualty inflation environment, social inflation, jury awards, if you like, have been larger in the back years going back to '14, '15, '16, '17, '18 and up to 2019. And what that's done is create a somewhat a bit of a fear factor around the casualty market, and it's underpinned it. So larger emerging losses from the back years is sort of underpinning the pricing there. So casualty was inflation-driven pricing. And property has been more loss experience and the need to buy more cover. So in that respect, that's why that's growing. In terms of net income or comprehensive income, we basically had a delay in that because we basically decided in the market to switch the approach to write more quota share ground-up business rather than volatile excess of loss. That nature of that contract basically earns a premium over 2 years. It doesn't earn it over 1 year. So whilst we've written a headline item, a larger number at the top than plan, $ 1.1 billion versus plan, the way that flows through into your financials has got a 12-month lag. So in that respect, we've been slower reporting net comprehensive income and the ROE. And so '23 was a 22% ROE and we're sort of in that low to mid-teens for '24. So that's really been the impact. In terms of delivering on people and the expense ratio, we're actually ahead of it. We've got to where we are with slightly less headcount and our operating expense is slightly ahead of where we thought it would be.

The next question here, is your strategy purely based on organic growth? Or do you see M&A opportunities as well?

Yes. So depending on the cycle, at the moment, certainly if you look at my career over 40 years, you can plot the M&A activity relative to where the premium cycles are. There's the upside of the trend line and the downside and when M&A activity takes place. For us, it's all about organic as far as we can see at the moment. It's such a broad universe that we're in. We've made, I think, a material impact in terms of relevance with clients that we're on. But when you consider we are $1 billion of written out of the industry of several hundred billion, then plainly, we have enormous universe that we can continue to grow in. Just a word around M&A is just a more general observation in the businesses I've been involved in the past. Any M&A that's taken place in the industry, which is wholesale bought into a business, including all of the back years or the management of those has very often been a challenge to integrate and to manage profitably. The M&A that we've seen and I've seen work in the past is really more around acquiring teams of people. So -- and the renewal rights to business. So the ones that have worked [indiscernible] when company has sold the real right to a portfolio. So you get the right to write renewal of their policies without the headache of trying to get to grips with in sometimes several decades of back here reserving, which has been a challenge. So yes, that's we see at the moment.

The next question, when are you likely to see the wildfires reflected in higher rates? Does your mid-teens ROE for this year assume this happens?

We believe and we understand from our clients that the reaction to that will be fairly immediate. The wildfire either in terms of a rate increase for that peril in the state or an exclusion in broader contract, which is quite important. There are a number of contracts out in the industry where ostensibly, they all the property in the U.S. and it contains wildfire. And I think there will be elements of where that will be squeezed out by exclusion, which essentially is adding value to the contract with that out. Where it's been written specifically, there definitely will be rate increase coming through. On portfolio, where we're sharing in those policies ground up with clients, they are written every month, every day, policies are attaching to the companies, and we're sharing in those. So in those treaties that we have as we speak now this week, there will be renewals of homeowners policies being written and quoted with rate increases that are in that portfolio of a company that we reinsure. So we are getting the benefit of now that now almost virtually, if you like. So that's happening now. In terms of our sort of forecast for the year and the low to mid-teens ROE, there is an element in that, really dialed up the rate increase meter to reduce a number in ROE. We just simply looked at U.S. property and where we thought there may be some reductions in some of the passes, we basically leveled off some of those. We think in the model, I think flat would be a reasonable place to go. So that's put some sort of context in there that it's not purely built on crossing our fingers and hope that the U.S. property doubles, which is not.

The final question we have here is you're trading well below IPO share price. Have you considered share buybacks?

Yes. Thanks for the question. We have discussed capital management routinely in these presentations and going back even to the IPO presentation and materials. So we've had a level dividend essentially since our first year of operations, $0.18 at each half year and full year. So capital management is obviously something that the management team and the Board discuss regularly. And we do keep a close eye on where the shares trade and the relative value. So buyback is one of the tools that is a capital management opportunity. And I think we've said since the outset, our primary focus for capital management is to deploy into attractive conditions. And we certainly still view the market as attractive. And if there is excess capital on top of what we need to fulfill our plans, we will consider share buybacks or adjustments to the dividend or special dividends.

Thank you, Brett. That's great. And thank you for answering all those questions from investors. Of course, the company can review all the questions submitted today, and we will publish the responses on the Investor Meet Company platform. Just before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which is particularly important to the company, Trevor, could I just ask you for a few closing comments?

Okay. Thanks very much. Well, first of all, thanks very much for your time and listening. At times, the reinsurance industry can be somewhat murky, and I think people understand an insurance policy. We all buy them on our homeowners, our house and our cars. We understand the nature of how insurance companies can react in terms of rate increases and coverage. When explaining the reinsurance industry, sometimes it's a bit of a challenge. But essentially, it's the same principle that we ensure the insurance company, and that's kind of the way to think about it. So thanks for your time and for your patience. Interesting market at the moment, obviously, not just with the wildfires but with other market events. Thanks for your time. Look forward to seeing you online at the next visit.

Thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order the management team can better understand your views and expectations? This is going to take a few moments to complete. I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Conduit Holdings Limited, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.