Corbion N.V. (CRBN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. My name is Mathieu Vrijsen, and I'm the Chairman of the Corbion Supervisory Board. I hereby open the Annual General Meeting of Shareholders, and would like to welcome you at this Annual General Meeting of Shareholders. Since some of the participants do not speak Dutch, the language, therefore, this afternoon is English. For those who do not speak English, the meeting will be translated. You can follow this translation via the webcast. I hope this will enable everyone to follow the discussions. [Foreign Language] I realize that this meeting takes place under special and difficult circumstances due to the coronavirus situation. Since the beginning of 2020, we all have been affected heavily by the coronavirus, both in our private and business lives. The directions given by the Dutch government have caused us to organize this meeting as a virtual meeting, allowing you as shareholders to participate via webcast. We truly regret that we are not able to meet you in person this year, and we hope that such opportunity will be available again at the next occasion. I now would like to introduce you to the members of the Supervisory Board and other participants on behalf of Corbion that are here in the [indiscernible] in Amsterdam and are joining us via webcast. Via video conferencing are participating Liz Doherty, member of the Supervisory Board; Mrs. Dessi Temperley, nominated member of the Supervisory Board; Steen Riisgaard, member of the Supervisory Board and Chairman of the Science and Technology Committee; Rudy Markham, Vice Chairman of the Supervisory Board and Chairman of the Remuneration Committee. And in Amsterdam, present are Ilona Haaijer, member of the Supervisory Board; Jack de Kreij, member of the Supervisory Board and Chairman of the Audit Committee; Jurgen te Nijenhuis from KPMG; Mariette Mantel, secretary for this meeting; Olivier Rigaud, CEO of Corbion; and Eddy van Rhede, CFO of Corbion; and Harry Noppers to my left, the company Secretary. All legal and statutory requirements have been complied with to convene this meeting. The convocation documents for this meeting were published on Corbion's website on April 7, 2021, and as of that date were also available at Corbion's offices. Shareholders who were registered in the shareholders register and on record date for this meeting have been nominated by letter. Mrs. Mantel will make the minutes of this meeting. And after the meeting, I will request her to sign the minutes together with myself. In connection with the orderly conduct of this meeting, I inform you that for each specific agenda item, as announced in the convocation documents, only questions that have been submitted in writing prior to this meeting by shareholders will be answered by the company. The questions that have been submitted will be addressed per agenda item. We will share the questions and answers on the screen, which can be followed via the webcast. Furthermore, the shareholders who have submitted questions prior to this meeting are allowed to ask follow-up questions during the meeting by sending an e-mail to [email protected] and during this meeting. Any follow-up questions will be addressed at the agenda item, any other business. If possible, please submit your questions in English. If you however prefer to do this in Dutch, feel free to do so, and your question will be translated into English. As explained in the convocation documents as posted on the Corbion's website, the voting on all agenda items has been completed prior to this meeting. Shareholders have had the opportunity to use electronic or written proxies to cast their votes. For each agenda item that is a voting item, the text of the proposal that has been voted on will be shown on the screen. For each voting item, we will provide you on the screen with information as to how many votes have been cast in favor of the proposals, how many votes have been cast against the proposals and how many votes have been abstained from voting. After that, I will inform you whether or not a specific voting item has been accepted. Votes were cast for 45,220,076 shares, representing 76.81% of the issued and qualified to vote capital. Every share was entitled to one vote. We will now start with the agenda item #2, the Annual Report 2020. As usual, the Chairman of the Board of Management, Mr. Olivier Rigaud, will give a presentation on the development at Corbion. After this presentation, we will address the questions asked with respect to this annual report. May I please ask your attention for the presentation? Olivier, please go ahead.

Thank you, Mathieu. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I will take you now through, let's say, the major development across the 2020 year and the financial performance. So if you remember, we launched our Capital Market Day a year ago, 9 of March. And a week later, the world went into lockdown. So it has been an extremely challenging year, and I'm very pleased to report a strong performance of Corbion despite this challenging environment. We achieved an organic sales growth of 7% on our core activities across 2020 and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 16.1%. In terms of business progress, we launched our Advance 2025 plan. And a detailed execution road map also profiling our new purpose around sustainability on preserving what matters. And we, let's say, reemphasized that everything we do as an organization has to be fully aligned with sustainable development goals and as well as 100% of our innovation projects. We also had a full review of our portfolio, managing for exit some of our business as the frozen dough business in the U.S. or our consumer algae oil business in the U.S. We also initiated a very key project with the construction of a new lactic acid plant in Thailand, and also announced further development through our joint venture with Total on building a second PLA bioplastic plant in France. We also made strong progress in terms of sustainability where we got, for the first time, A rating from the Carbon Disclosure Project, something we can really be proud of. Of course, as I said, COVID came in the way, and we've been very successful of firstly, making sure that our employees would remain in the safer condition during the period, but also, I mean, the close community and our providers. And of course, also securing business continuity. Pretty proud, of course, of making sure our customer would continue to be supplied as we provide essential products to the wider society. Across this period, we, of course, experienced disruption, but no major one, and we were pretty proud not to let down any single customers during the period. During the period as well, we started new projects. One important one is in the implementation of our new ERP system. And we've been through some go-live processes successfully during the period, primarily in Asia and early this year in Europe. Last but not least, obviously as, I guess, I mean, most of you, we experienced a COVID fatigue, and I think it was important for us to also keep focusing on mental health and well-being of our colleagues. Although now it looks like we see some light at the end of the tunnel, this is, I mean, still quite a high topic on our agenda. Starting now with our performance on safety. As you can see there, it was not a good year. We've had 23 recordable accident. And if you look to the total recordable injury rate of Corbion, we achieved a number of 0.87%, so far from our target there. We took the opportunity in 2020 to start a major culture -- safety culture assessment program with an external company and came with a program based on 3 pillars that we're going to roll out over the next years to become a best-in-class company in terms of safety. As we speak, we are busy with the first part of this program, which is around safety leadership and training program. Now looking to the business and starting with our largest busy unit, Sustainable Food Solutions. There we saw a very strong growth over the year, with a 6.8% organic growth and an EBITDA margin of 17%. Again, it was a very specific year after a strong Q1 that was primarily driven by pantry loading. If you remember back in March 2020, we had a softer Q2, but then a very strong second half of the year. And we've seen that momentum continuing across Q1 2021. This business has primarily been led by natural preservation. There, we still see despite the pandemic, an ongoing strong momentum from our customers to replace fossil-based and synthetic preservatives by natural alternatives. So that has been driving quite a lot of our growth. The second part of our business is Functional Systems that has been, to some extent, hit by the drop in foodservice and out-of-home foodservice. Although there, we've had a low single-digit growth, it was more modest than preservation. Looking at the initiatives on Sustainable Food Solutions. As we announced in our strategy, we implemented some programs into what we call close adjacencies, moving into a complementary product lines as the natural antioxidants, some specific food ferments, but also dairy stabilizers in order to build up some additional platform for growth for the years to come. In the period, we also had a significant investment in terms of go-to-market capabilities by also primarily investing into new R&D application labs. So we built a brand-new application labs in China. We doubled our premises in Singapore. We built a brand-new lab in the U.S. on natural antioxidant as in a dairy food system. And we staff up consequently, technical service and technical sales resources across the globe to build up longer-term commercial pipeline. Moving to our second business unit, Lactic Acid & Specialties. Very solid growth as well here, with a 6.2% organic growth and over 22% EBITDA margin. Obviously, the growth has been driven there by strong lactic acid sales to our PLA joint venture with Total. But we've seen also strong performance into our pharmaceutical business or our electronic business as well. The only segment that did suffer from the COVID pandemic is related to our biomedical biomaterials, where there, we saw that what we call elective surgeries were postponed. As you know, hospitals were full with COVID cases. So that's the only part of the business of Corbion that has been severely impacted by the COVID pandemic. Disclosing for the first time, the total Corbion PLA joint ventures numbers. We've seen, I mean, a very strong momentum there with almost EUR 130 million sales and a very healthy EBITDA margin, above 36%. In terms of initiatives, we made several announcements across 2020 and early '21. One was to have a series of debottleneck program to add another 50,000 tons capacity to our current lactic acid production for a EUR 65 million capital investment. And this will happen across many sites in the network, being primarily the United States, Brazil and the Netherlands. But we also announced the start of the construction of a brand-new technology plant we call gypsum-free with a much better sustainable characteristics in our site in Rayong. And their construction has started there despite, again, the COVID constraint. This will be 125,000 tons lactic acid plant that will start within the second quarter of 2023. We've also announced that we were exploring the construction of additional lactic acid plant, most likely in Europe, to further feed the PLA growth going forward. In terms of further initiatives and looking at lactic acid derivatives. Next to, of course, PLA, we've seen a very nice pickup in terms of home and personal care products where lactic acid and derivatives are being used as disinfectant, and we've seen some drive also there indirectly related to COVID. Now moving to the Incubator. And you might know that the major initiatives we have within Incubator is related to our algae ingredient platform. There, we committed to achieve breakeven by 2022. So we've had also, I mean, a strong growth momentum with an organic growth above 13% (sic) [ 30% ] last year, basically with a big drive to increase customer adoption of our new value proposition. So we also invested in new products form, launched liquid versions of our products to, again, develop our commercial pipeline. We also adapted our pricing strategy to be able to convert more wild fish oil into our algae solutions. And basically, also pretty proud of, let's say, the R&D team that in the middle of the pandemic had been able to develop and scale up a new algae strain that could enable us to have much better yields, but also proposed, I mean, a superior quality products to the market and transfer the technology from the labs to the plant without being able to travel. So that has been a major breakthrough in our algae business across 2020 that is leading today to increased sales and better business momentum. So we are on track to achieve our breakeven target by 2022 on the algae omega-3 business. So I mentioned about the algae strain and the new products. We also invested in algae into -- again, as in Sustainable Food Solutions' go-to-market capabilities by recruiting people on the ground in the major aquaculture market being Chile and Norway. Also recruiting some business development people and more salespeople to continue to develop the strength of our commercial pipeline. Last point on Incubator and also stimulating open innovation. We took some positions in 2 investment funds that are longer-term fund, one in the Netherlands being SHIFT Invest III; and the second in Germany on ECBF, so European Circular Bio-based Economy Fund (sic) [ European Circular Bioeconomy Fund ]. And this is, I mean, again, to give us access to a solid pipeline of start-up new technologies going forward, preparing for the future. Looking at the overall scorecard. I mentioned safety where we were not happy with our own performance. You can see all the rest, I mean, scored pretty well, whether it is, again, top line growth, EBITDA margin, but also very important, all the sustainability items that we are tracking and measuring at the top level. Whether it is, again, about the way we source our material, but also, of course, I mean, emissions and life cycle assessments of our products. So transition and sustainability. As I said in the introduction, we have decided to fully align our business and everything we do behind 3 Sustainable Development Goals from the United Nations, being the Sustainable Goal number 2,3 and 12. So it's, I think, again, today, 61% of our revenue, and we are aiming for these 3 to represent over 80% of our business by 2030. At the same time, we've revisited our innovation portfolio and agreed that 100% of everything we're going to launch and we did launch as from 2020, would fit and would have to fit and be fully aligned with these 3 Sustainable Development Goals. Moving now to also how do we translate that to, let's say, our internal organization and our employees and make sure that sustainability is, of course, also embedded fully in the organization. An initiative we launched pretty recently around the platform and what we call preserve what matter platforms, is to generate across the globe in all our locations, initiatives around how we can also from an employee and community standpoint, energize sustainability projects. And we've seen a very good adoption and momentum there. After a couple of months, we already have 48 initiatives and almost 500 people out of the 2,500 people of Corbion that already registered and participating into the sustainability initiatives. A second initiative that actually was launched last week, so very recent, when you speak about COVID and the COVID fatigue, I think everybody is getting really a bit sick of the situation and fed up. And we've seen across our employee base, a lot of stress level, despite the strong company performance, a lot of tension. So we launched with Headspace, in partnership with that space, an app that we provided to all our employee base to take care about their mental health and well-being. And this is around motivation exercise, a good sleep and moving. So -- and that's something where also we see a huge amount of adoption and positive recognition from our employees. Now looking forward, and you might have seen, I'm sure, our Q1 results already. We had a very strong Q1, again, in the continuity of what we demonstrated during H2 last year. And this is confirming the positive momentum we still see in the business. And although we still have a lot of uncertainties related to the COVID pandemic and how we might get back to normal, we've raised our top line guidance, which is now between 7% and 10% organic growth for the core activities. We did not change our margin guidance above 15%, as we see also some quite steep increase of commodity prices in terms of raw material or processing aids coming right now in the way. So that's also an important aspect that we need to consider. Next to the fact that we heavily invested in our business by adding some resources, as I mentioned in the go-to market, but also in innovation and also not forgetting that we are building, as we speak at 2 new plants, factories, where we need to recruit people to run these operations. So about the pandemic, we are continuing to be close to the ball, making sure that we, again, still secure the health of our employees and make sure that we also secure a high level of service and security of supply to our customers. Last but not least, investing much further in the sustainability nature of Corbion and again, making sure that we do not compromise on our alignment with the Sustainable Development Goals. To end this presentation, I'd like to show a small video on basically and give a tribute to the Corbion people and employees, because without our employees and their commitment across this period, we wouldn't have achieved such a strong year into in 2020. So we're going to see the video right away. [Presentation]

Thank you very much, Olivier. And I would like to thank you in the name of the Supervisory Board, and I expect all the shareholders for this phenomenal achievement in a very challenging year. Your organization have shown what they are capable of, and thank you very much for that.

We have received questions from VBDO on this subject. And they have asked 4 questions which will be answered by Mr. Rigaud. I will read the questions for you, and then Mr. Rigaud will answer them. Let's see. Question number one. Corbion's materiality analysis indicates that the greenhouse gas emissions are one of the top priorities for the company, resulting in the need for an ambitious climate strategy. VBDO applauds Corbion's use of a scenario analysis to assess the potential climate-related impacts of a transition risk, greater -- less than 2% centigrade and physical risk, plus or minus 4% centigrade on parts of his business in line with the TCFD recommendations. In terms of mitigation, Corbion confirms that its current emission reduction plans are in line with the Paris Climate Agreement to keep global warming well below 2% -- 2 degrees centigrade. Could Corbion commit to go one step further and set targets in line with a more ambitious goal of 1.5 degrees centigrade scenario? Olivier?

Corbion has approved the Science Based Targets aligned with, indeed, the 2 degrees centigrade strategy and is committed to achieve a 33% reduction per ton of product by 2030 compared to 2016. We have committed to our targets by the end of 2020 and are currently focused on delivering on this commitment. We've already achieved 11% reduction last year. So when we set our target at that time, the SBTi did not yet have a method to set the target aligned with a 1.5-degree scenario. So the methodology is now available, and we are currently evaluating what is required to increase our ambition to the 1.5-centigrade level, including, by the way, a net zero commitment. But before making a firm commitment, we need to fully understand how we can deliver on it. We believe it's important for our stakeholders to communicate a clear road map when setting such a target.

Question number two. Corbion has joined the science-based targets for nature, SBTN, Corporate Engagement Program. And within this program, Corbion will work with other stakeholders to co-create methods and tools for integrated target-setting necessary to evaluate biodiversity impacts. VBDO supports Corbion's steps related to biodiversity and playing its part in building a nature-positive future. Can Corbion commit to update its stakeholders annually on developments related to SBTN program, but also its own management approach?

To deliver on our commitment to preserve the planet, we've joined the Science Based Targets Network Corporate Engagement Program at the end of 2020. As a bio-based company, we depend on nature for the production of our renewable agricultural-derived raw materials. We aim to minimize negative impacts on nature and have a positive impact with solution, such as our AlgaPrime DHA as well as by implementing regenerative agriculture together with supply chain partners. As part of this SBTN program, we will perform a materiality assessment and value chain mapping to identify key issues to support and complement the existing sustainability initiatives. And we will update -- provide an update on our progress in our next annual report.

Thank you. Question number three. Corbion has created mitigation plans for 96% of high-risk suppliers, including supplier engagement, SMETA audits and identification of alternative raw materials or suppliers. VBDO would like to gain more insight in Corbion's supply chain risk management processes and results related to high-risk suppliers. Could Corbion start reporting on more -- could Corbion start reporting more extensively, either qualitatively or quantitatively on how it mitigated risks related to labor conditions? VBDO was especially interested in the outcome of mitigation plans as to illustrate the company's ability to effectively address and reduce potential human right risks in its agricultural supply chain. Olivier?

A significant part of the environmental and social impact in our value chain is upstream of our operations. And to safeguard a number of positive environmental and social impact of our sustainable solutions, we need to ensure our raw materials are sourced responsibly. We assess all of our raw materials and suppliers on potential risk related to sustainability and in our security of supply assessment, which is updated annually. To increase transparency for our stakeholders, we started reporting on the outcome of this assessment in our 2020 Annual Report. As a next step, we will include qualitative information on the results of our responsible sourcing efforts in our next annual report.

Question number four. VBDO has not found reference of a commitment towards fair and equal remuneration, either in the Code of Business Conduct, the diversity policy or the annual report. A commitment towards equal remuneration signals the intention to reward female employees for their performance the same way their male colleagues could be rewarded, which is especially important in male-dominated companies. Could Corbion commit to include equal pay for equal work in its Code of Business Conduct and report on the gender pay gap for different levels within the entire workforce?

In 2020, we started the communication about our inclusion and diversity policy and set specific targets to gender diversity in senior management positions. We as well developed inclusion and diversity awareness workshop, which will be implemented in the course of 2021. As stated in our Code of Business Conduct, we do not tolerate discrimination in any form against any employees or applicant. Fair and equal remuneration is an important aspect of this commitment, and we will make this commitment more specific in our Code of Business Conduct and policy. Regarding reporting on the gender pay gap, we will implement this in due time.

Okay. The next 6 questions come from the VEB, and those questions will be answered by both Mr. Rigaud and Mr. van Rhede. Question number one. In the coming years, Corbion is faced with significant investments, CapEx. How does Corbion expect to meet the financial requirements, given the expectations that the operational cash flow will not be sufficient for the required investment? Eddy?

We regularly evaluate the financing structure following the short-, mid- and long-term cash flow forecast. For example, in September 2020, we've already signed a new U.S. private placement of $170 million, amongst others, that we used for repaying the revolving credit facility. And in that nature, we increased the flexibility. There is still quite some headroom in our net debt capacity. Per year-end 2020, our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio was 1.7 turns versus our loan covenants of 3.75 turns.

Thank you. Question number two. The Advance 2025 strategic plan presented at the beginning of last year was based on an average annual investment for a new factory in Thailand of EUR 55 million for the period 2020-2022. In 2020, that was approximately EUR 9.8 million. To what extent were these investments last year lower than initially forecasted? And does Corbion expect any impact on future growth? Eddy?

In our Advance 2025 strategy, the phasing, the plant investment for 2020 was already relatively low. And we're still on track having the gypsum-free lactic acid plant in Thailand to be ready and operational in 2023. Although the COVID pandemic has had some impact on the project timing, so far, this has not had major consequences for the 2023 implementation date. As communicated earlier, additionally, we are expanding also our lactic acid capacity through debottlenecking investments in several of our existing sites as to further facilitate the growth in our lactic acid markets.

Question number three. During 2020, Corbion has lowered its sales price for lactic acid. At the same time, there is cost inflation, including raw materials and increasing competition. What opportunities does Corbion see to increase its prices in the short term? Olivier?

Yes. No. So this is not correct. We did not lowered our prices in lactic acid in 2020. So you may be referring to a negative mix effect but no lower price.

Question number four. Which factors, according to the Board of Management, give Corbion the best starting position in the competitive field for long-term financial value creation? Olivier?

The strength of Corbion are, amongst others, our deep fermentation knowledge and market leadership in natural food preservation and lactic acid. So position, portfolio, customer relationships, cost competitiveness, the fact that we have a global presence, the scale and obviously, the market knowledge.

Question number five. The collaboration between Corbion and Nestlé for the development of proteins on the basis of algae has ended. Why has Nestlé stopped this activity? And what is the financial impact for Corbion of ending the collaboration? Olivier?

As we understand, Nestlé is putting on all R&D activities that explore the use of microalgae in their product. As far as we know, they will continue to explore some plant-based ingredients in line with their efforts to deliver sustainable, tasty and nutritious product. The termination of the project will have no effect on the communicated financial outlook for algae ingredients during the strategic period.

Question number six. Corbion aims to realize EBITDA breakeven position for the omega-3 DHA activities by 2022. A, what does Corbion see as the main threats to that ambition; and b, what is the potential of omega-3 in terms of turnover, and when can this be achieved? Olivier?

The market adoption speed is a key element, and there today, many multiple initiatives in retail, in salmon farming, feed production to reduce the CO2 footprint and the dependency of marine ingredients. In that respect, algae omega-3 do play a key role in these initiatives. However, these initiatives are also dependent on the transformation of the supply chain. In terms of input costs, DHA has a different cost structure than fish oil and marine ingredients. Obviously, a higher sugar cost could impact our cost structure and could impact our margin. As we shared previously in our Capital Market Day in March 2020, we currently see a USD 400 million attainable market for omega-3 DHA. Since this market is in a very early development stage, the timing is quite difficult to predict there.

Okay. This concludes the questions from VEB. Then we also received a question from [ Mr. Velzeboer ]. He has asked 15 questions. And Mr. Rigaud and van Rhede will answer these questions. Question one. Corbion's strategy focuses on 3 business units: Sustainable Food Solutions, Lactic Acid & Specialties and Incubator. The latter currently requires the most investments. When does Corbion anticipate the breakeven point of these investments at Incubator? And what is the total amount in euros of the investment in the coming year? Olivier?

The EBITDA margin breakeven for algae ingredient omega-3 is planned for 2022. Next to the omega-3 initiatives, the annual EBITDA investment for the other initiatives in Incubators are expected to be in the range of 0.5% to 1.5% of core net sales.

Question number two. What synergy is there between the 3 business units? And what added value does that give to each business unit? Olivier?

Corbion's purpose in preserving food, food production, health and the planet has proven especially meaningful and relevant in this time of crisis. Everything we do from product offerings and operations to investment and innovation is perfectly aligned with urgently felt needs in markets and industries around the globe. So the overall strategy is cohesive, and different business units are building on each other's strength and leveraging knowledge managed by the Executive Committee. For example, the fermentation knowledge is used for all 3 business units.

Question number three. We saw it in the U.S. on the East Coast with the oil pipeline, that hackers had broken in and demanded money. ICT systems are the biggest hacked link. How vulnerable are the ICT systems to such a hack? Eddy, could you answer this?

Well, the exact reason of the Colonial Pipeline hack is yet unclear. It is believed that the attack was successful due to the providing of remote access to COVID-19 and successful phishing. Corbion's tech measures are in line with industry best practices to reduce and mitigate these kind of risks. Some examples are to be found in the multifactor authentication on external interfaces and the continuous awareness program we are running with all of our employees, especially regarding phishing. We believe that measures like these reduce the risk of credential abuse from off-premise individuals, although we'll never provide a full guarantee. Internal network measures and dedicated security monitoring should also reduce the impact of such an attack.

Question number four. Corbion's Purac has entered into a JV with Total, 50-50. How satisfied in terms of points is Corbion now regarding this cooperation and development. Olivier?

No, we are very satisfied with the progress made with the JV. And our announcement to further expand our capacity together with our JV partner, Total, is a sign of our good cooperation and development together.

Question number five. Are there more of these type of large joint ventures to be expected? And I'm referring more to Incubator, a part that many companies are working on and sometimes [ REIT investment ] are then done twice. Working together and discussing together could turn from small steps into big steps with the underlying synergy. Or is it already being done? Olivier?

Corbion is continuously evaluating the strategic options within the Incubator business in line with the Advance 2025 strategic plan. We also embraced the concept of open innovation and thereby building on each other's strength there.

Question number six. Has the mutual strategy of the 3 business units already being set up in such a way that the income of one can support the development of the other in order to be able to achieve the goal in 2025? And we, Corbion, don't need other parties? Olivier?

The overall strategy is cohesive, and different business units are building on each other's strength and leveraging knowledge managed by the Executive Committee. As an example, the fermentation knowledge being used by the whole 3 business units.

Question number seven. Corbion will explain itself about COVID-19, but the way of working will change permanently. I would like to see what Corbion will say about those changes. I mean 3 days working from home and 2 days from -- at the office. I'll just mention a change of work as an example. Can you comment on this, Olivier?

Yes. COVID-19 has had a big impact on our way of working, meaning that for many of our colleagues had to work from home and many meetings were held virtually. Today, this is still the case in many countries where we do operate. So we will take the learnings of this homeworking into account when we will discuss the new way of working at Corbion, but only once COVID-19 is behind us.

Question number eight. The coherent development in the Incubator group, I mean, PLA, DHA and FDCA. This last point was one of my questions to Mr. van Rhede, but then he said it will come next year. Can the wise man of today tell us something about the coherence and the development on this still -- of this still commercial sense or -- excuse me, or is this still a commercial-sensitive information read in connection with competition? Olivier?

As part of this Advance 2025 strategic plan, FDCA was classified as an exit business line to have a more focused portfolio. So today, the Incubator strategy is focusing on DHA, algae protein and copolymers. PLA has clearly progressed to a more mature position and is now managed as a 50-50 joint venture with Total. So PLA is now not part of the Incubator unit anymore.

Question number nine. What I read about the versatile possibilities and use of the BLA and the way I respond to it, read, among other things, new factory, the growth and demand for PLA as raw material will increase significantly. What percentage should I think of? Olivier?

PLA is indeed a versatile polymer with a wide range of applications. So at the moment, PLA is still a niche polymer. How big the actual market for PLA can become is difficult to forecast since the development of application is still ongoing. But also other factors do play an important role there, such as the availability of raw material and the capital for the market as a whole.

Question number 10. In the past, Purac was the world market leader in PLA, within 80%. What percentage should I think of now?

No, this is not correct. We -- Corbion has not been market leader in PLA so far, but we are catching up via our joint venture with Total. We are, however, the market leader in lactic acid and remain very strong here.

Question number 11. I've read in the media that Corbion has just received extra demand for disinfectant. Does Corbion feel that the demand is permanent? And what extra turnover does that generate? Olivier?

Yes. The antimicrobial and antiviral properties of our Sanilac selected derived products being used in disinfectant has supported the growth in demand of our products in the market, and this is expected to continue.

Question number 12. Approximately more than 50% in permanent hands, the free float is limited. This encourages manipulation, and I have seen -- I've been seeing that for the last 10 years, especially in the last 5 minutes of the trade. From 5:30 p.m. to 5:35, about 40% or more of the total of the day trade goes. Can there be consultation with the liquidity provider to prevent this kind of foreign conversion and trade? Eddy?

In the Netherlands, the supervisory authority, AFM, is responsible for investigations into possible irregularities in the trading of shares in listed companies. So we have to refer [ Mr. Velzeboer ] to contact the AFM.

Question number 13. Risk management is becoming an increasingly important point of attention for companies and pension funds. What is the size of this in terms of time and personnel? Many pages are devoted to it in the Corbion 2020 report. Eddy?

Yes. Corbion considers risk management to be an integral part of the management of the company as described in the second paragraph of the risk management chapter in the annual report to ensure all decisions are being taken with due consideration of risks. The director of internal audit spends about 10% of his time to facilitate the Executive Committee in the risk assessment and the monitoring of follow-up of mitigating actions. In addition, several risk committees have been established to manage specific areas of potential high risk for Corbion. They generally meet once per month and include executives. These are committees like Treasury, Risk Committee, Commodity Risk Committee, information security board. Additionally, several second lines of defense departments have been established to assist our various locations in risk mitigation. These departments comprise over 100 FTEs and cover areas like regulatory affairs, legal compliance, safety and environment, information security and internal control and QA and QC.

Question number 14. Are Corbion employees allowed to participate in or own Corbion shares? If so, how does this work? I would be in favor of stimulating share ownership for all employees. This can increase passion for the company. Eddy?

Yes, Corbion employees are allowed to own Corbion shares, provided that they comply with the Corbion insider trading policy. Corbion has a long-term incentive plan, whereby members of senior management receive Corbion's shares if certain financial and sustainability targets have been met over a 3 years period. Over time, we'd like to expand this long-term incentive plan to other layers within the organization. Currently, we do not have an additional program to stimulate and please the purchase of Corbion shares.

Question number 15. I heard that the cost of the external auditor amount to approximately 1% of the turnover. Is that a fixed fact, Eddy?

No, that's incorrect. An audit fee of 1% of sales will be far from reality. The audit fee is disclosed on Page 160 in our annual report and is EUR 885,000 for 2020, which is slightly below the 2019 amount. So it is less than 0.1% of our sales.

Okay. With no further questions, we move to the next agenda item, which is the adoption of the financial statements of 2020. The Board of Management, with the approval of the Supervisory Board, proposes to the General Meeting of Shareholders to adopt Corbion's 2020 financial statements. An explanation of the activities of the Audit Committee and the cooperation with the external auditor can be found on Pages 81 and 82 of the annual report. We received one question from the VEB for Mr. te Nijenhuis from KPMG. And Mr. Nijenhuis will now give an explanation and the presentation as the external auditor and will address the question in his resume.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jurgen te Nijenhuis, and I'm the independent external auditor who signed the auditor's report on the 2020 financial statements on behalf of KPMG. Before I answer the question of VEB, I will give a short summary of audit approach for 2020. We have audited the consolidated and company financial statements, and we concluded that those financial statements, both consolidated and company financial statements give a true and fair view. We also looked at the audit information included in the annual report. And we verified that the audit information is consistent with the financial statement, does not contain any material misstatements and also complies with laws and regulations. We also look at the sustainability information, and we review that information. And that means a limited level of assurance. And what we do there, we conclude actually that nothing believes is that there would be a material misstatement actually in those sustainability indicators, as mentioned in the assurance report. I continue now with the information about the financial statements. And what you can see there is that we use the materiality of EUR 5.5 million, which is 4.9% of the result before tax -- normalized result before tax. If you look at our group audit, Corbion consists of a number of company, mainly legal entities per country. And those entities comprise a large percentage of revenue and assets than these that are in scope. And we focus mainly on the significant components, entities in the group, and that is based on if they are significant based on revenue or on assets or if there is likely to be a significant risk included in one of those components. 2020 was also, for the audit, a special year due to COVID-19. And we amended our audit approach in 3 ways. That means actually that our component auditor based in the Netherlands was aimed to visit the U.S. and do the audit there. He did the audit remotely and also changed the communication methods. And we still, of course, refute the file of the component auditor to make sure the adequate procedures were performed. For Brazil, we also get access to the file of the component auditor remotely and also ensure that the right audit procedures were performed there. Specifically, I would mention the stock count procedures, which really differ per country, where in the U.S., for example, we are still able to do the stock count procedures physically and in other locations, we also did that remotely. I would like to conclude on the key audit matters that you can see on the screen, and they are related to the valuation of algae ingredients business and the capitalized licenses. And you can find further details on the audit procedures in our auditor's report, which is included in the annual report on Page 191.

Then I would like now to continue with a question of the VEB. And the question is, can KPMG elaborate on the audit procedures with respect to the identification of fraud risk factors as a result of COVID-19? In our auditor's report, we described the scope of audit in relation to irregularities, including fraud. And in accordance with Dutch auditing standards, we are required to obtain a high, but not an absolute level of assurance, that the financial statements, taken as a whole, do not contain any material misstatements, whether due to fraud or to error. And I would like to note that the audit is based on the auditing standards and is not specifically designed to detect fraud. What we do specifically in identifying fraud risk is actually a 2-step approach. First, as part of our overall risk assessment, we evaluate fraud risk factors with respect to financial reporting fraud, misappropriation of assets and bribery and corruption. Secondly, together with our forensic specialists, we evaluate those fraud risk factors to consider whether those factors really can have the level of risk of material misstatements for the financial statements due to fraud. And if a fraud risk factor indeed elevates to a fraud risk for audit, then a specific audit response is required. I can inform you that based on our audit procedures, there were no indications of changes in processes or controls as a result of COVID-19, which increased the fraud risks. Also based on our analysis of fraud risk factors, we have not identified any specific additional fraud risk factors related to COVID-19. We've communicated the identified fraud risks throughout our team, and also we communicated to all the component auditors, and we also communicated our risk assessment to the Board of Management and to the Supervisory Board. And then I would like to conclude with the auditing standards. Based on them, we did identify 2 for directors, and these are the presumed fraud risk factors and are in line with prior year, so not related to COVID-19. And these are the risks related to overstatement of revenue and the risk of management of right of controls and a detailed response to those fraud risk is included in our auditor's report. And I would like to thank you for your attention. And Mr. Chairman, I would like to return the floor back to you.

Thank you. With no further questions, now I will conclude this agenda item, and I read the voting results that have come in. And for the adoption were 45,178,316 votes or 100%; so 0 against; and 41,760 votes were abstained. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Then we go to agenda point 4, that is the remuneration report 2020. The next item on the agenda is the remuneration report 2020. The remuneration report describes the implementation of the remuneration policy for the Board of Management and for the Supervisory Board in 2020, which is set out on Pages 81 and 93 of the annual report. The Board of Management, with the approval of the Supervisory Board, submits the remuneration report to the General Meeting of Shareholders for its advisory vote pursuant to Dutch law. It's proposed to cast an affirmative advisory vote.

We received a question from the VEB. And the question will be answered by Mr. Markham, the Chairman of the Remuneration Committee. And the question is, according to the remuneration report, both TIP and LTIP had, for sustainability, 5 respective -- respectively 4 performance targets. Can the Supervisory Board indicate for each of these performance targets what the ambition at target level, a target level and what the final score achieved was? Rudy, can you answer this question?

Thank you. Yes. Firstly, the LTIP 2018 to 2020 had no sustainability target at this stage. The shift 2020 have the following sustainability targets. The first is [ total pay rate ], which a target was set at 0.65. The achievement or lack of achievement versus the rate was 0.87. So that fails to achieve the target. The second was the verified responsibly sourced cane sugar, verified through Bonsucro certification or independent audit versus Corbion cane sugar code by quantity. The target level was 50%, and the achievement of these verifications was 66%, so that exceeded the target. The third was the reduction of Scope 1 and 2 greenhouse gas emissions per ton of product compared to the starting point of 2016, which is our SBT target. The target level was 23%, and the achievement was also 23%. The fourth target is products with environmental claim covered by life cycle analysis. The sales quantity of life cycle analysis products with environmental claim, divided by the total sales quantity of products with environmental claim, and the environmental claim is defined as a contribution to the environmental sustainable development goals in the SDG contribution assessment. The target for that ratio was 70%, and the achievement of the company in 2020 was 80%. Thank you again. Now Mathieu, back to you.

Thank you. As all questions have now been answered, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For votes were 40,977,120 votes or 90.62%; against were 2,000 -- 2,569,343 votes or 5.68%; and abstained were 1,673,613 votes or 3.7%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Then we turn to point on the agenda number 5, and that is the reservation and dividend policy. Corbion's reservation policy is aimed at creating and retaining sufficient financial capacity and flexibility to realize our strategic objectives while maintaining healthy balance sheet ratios. The current dividend policy is the ambition to pay out annually a stable to gradually increasing absolute cash dividend amount per share, progressive regular dividend policy. With no questions received, we move to the next agenda item, which is the determination of the dividend. The Board of Management, with the approval of the Supervisory Board, proposes to the General Meeting of Shareholders to determine the dividend on ordinary shares over 2020 at EUR 0.56 per share in the form of a cash dividend. Payment of the dividend will take place from 1st of June 2021. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 45,219,617 votes or 100%; we had 13 against and 446 abstained, which both concluded to 0%. I confirm that the majority of the vote cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Then I move to agenda point number 7, discharge of the members of the Board of Management in respect of their management duties. It's proposed to discharge the members of the Board of Management in office in 2020 from liability in relation to the exercise of their duties in the financial year 2020, to the extent that such exercise is apparent from the 2020 financial statements or has been otherwise publicly disclosed prior to the adoption of the 2020 financial statements. As we did not receive any questions, I will conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 43,539,942 votes or 96.28%; against were 1,532,296 votes or 3.39%; and abstained were 147,838 votes or 0.33%. I confirm that the majority of the vote cast is in favor of the proposal, and the proposal is adopted. The next agenda point is the discharge of the members of the Supervisory Board in respect of their supervisory duties. It's proposed to discharge the members of the Supervisory Board in office in 2020 from liability in relation to the exercise of their duties in the financial year 2020, to the extent that such exercise is apparent from the 2020 financial statements or has been otherwise publicly disclosed prior to the adoption of the 2020 financial statements. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 43,541,842 votes or 96.29%; against, 1,532,296 votes or 3.39%; abstained, 145,938 votes or 0.32%. I confirm that a majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Next point on the agenda is the reappointment of Mr. Eddy van Rhede van der Kloot as CFO of the company. In accordance with Article 12 Paragraph 3 of the Articles of Association, the Supervisory Board nominates and proposes to reappoint Mr. van Rhede van der Kloot for a period of 4 years, starting after the Annual General Meeting of Shareholders in 2022 until the Annual General Meeting of Shareholders in 2026. The details of Mr. van Rhede van der Kloot are included in the agenda, and an overview of the main elements of his contract of assignment is attached to the agenda as Annex 1. The decision to reappoint Mr. van Rhede van der Kloot also constitutes adoption of its remuneration package as outlined in Annex 1. We put this decision on the agenda already this year to avoid any doubt or confusion on whether we have continuity in the function of the CFO of the company. And we are very glad that Mr. van Rhede has accepted the nomination of the Supervisory Board. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For are 45,013,763 votes or 99.55%; against, 1,197 votes or 0%; and abstained, 205,116 votes or 0.45%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal, and the proposal is adopted. And I would like to congratulate Mr. van Rhede van der Kloot with this reappointment. And Eddy, we are all looking forward to continue working with you, which has been a pleasure over the last couple of years. And again, congratulations. That brings us to agenda point number 10, appointment of Mrs. Dessi Temperley Mr. Jack de Kreij, Chair of the Audit Committee, has indicated prior to the Annual Shareholders' Meeting in 2020, that taking into account a sound succession planning and his personal focus on other activities and business activities, he will not be available for reappointment in this year 2021 after then having served 10 years as Supervisory Board member. Mrs. Liz Doherty will succeed him as Chair of the Audit Committee. Mrs. Doherty is a member of the Audit Committee since May of 2015 and is a financial expert within the meaning of Clause 2.6 of the Audit Committee Charter. And Mrs. Liz Doherty, thank you very much for accepting this responsibility. And we also look forward to working with you to -- to continue to working with you, but then this time in the capacity of the Chairman of the Audit Committee. In accordance with Article 14 Paragraph 4 of the Articles of Association, the Supervisory Board nominates and proposes to a point Mrs. Temperley for a period of 4 years. Mrs. Temperley will become a member of the Audit Committee and is a financial expert within the meaning of Clause 2.6 of the Audit Committee Charter. The details of Mrs. Temperley are included in the agenda. And I would like to ask Mrs. Temperley now to briefly introduce herself. Dessi, please?

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I hope that you can hear me. Firstly, I'm delighted to be nominated to join the Board of Corbion, as Corbion is a company with a [ strong perspective ] for innovations and value-enhancing growth. Beyond that, very shortly about myself. I started my career as a graduate trainee with Royal Dutch Shell after completing a degree in economics. I then land as a [ new case out ] as Management Accountant, and later, I did an MBA. Most of my career I spent with Nestlé in the food and beverages sector in a number of finance roles, including the CFO of one of the regions, as they evolve Nestlé Purina EMENA division. And my last one with them was Head of Investor Relations. In the last 3 years, I was an Executive Board Member and CFO of Beiersdorf in Germany. So I'm really excited to be part of the Board of Directors of Corbion and to contribute to the future success of the company. Thank you.

Thank you, Dessi. And we are also very excited to have found you and you being available and to become part of this Board. And I don't have to explain any further that you are very qualified person to be on the Board and on the Audit Committee from a financial, but also from a business perspective. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For are 44,931,664 votes or 99.36%; against, 1,147 or 0%; and abstained, 287,265 votes or 0.64%. So I confirm that the majority of the vote is in favor of the proposal. And Dessi, welcome to the Board as an official member of this supervisory board. Congratulations. And looking -- we all look forward to working with you.

Thank you. [indiscernible].

And then I would like to say a few words to Mr. Jack de Kreij. Jack, today, you step down from the Supervisory Board after 10 years of service. And in those 10 years, contribution has been enormous. I can remember when I joined the Board, that we kind of developed a relationship that you became a mentor for me to get me comfortable in what was all going on. And I remember that one of the first things that we had to decide on was a product that you were the co-author of or co-architect, and that was a transition of CSM to Corbion. And that was quite a decision and quite a transition. And then you were very instrumental in developing the strategy for Corbion, but also the implementation of that strategy. And you were always there with the right questions, but also with a sense of humor in it, so it all was very pleasant that we could really well work together. I know that you have helped and assisted the CEO and especially the CFO enormously, and we thank you for that very, very much. I know that you have other plans for the future, and we wish you all the best in your new endeavors. And I can also tell you that at a later date, when some of the COVID restrictions are gone, we will more appropriately say farewell to you and thank you for everything that you've meant for Corbion. Thank you very much, Jack.

Thank you.

That brings us to point number 11 on the agenda, and I would like to hand over to Rudy Markham, the Vice Chairman of Corbion.

Thank you, Mathieu. The next item on the agenda is the reappointment of Mr. Mathieu Vrijsen as Supervisory Board Member. Mr. Vrijsen will reside by rotation this year. He has indicated that he will stand for reappointment for his fourth term (sic) [ third term ]. In accordance with Article 14 Paragraph 4 of the Articles of Association, the Supervisory Board nominates and proposes to reappoint Mathieu Vrijsen for a period of 2 years, which term is in line with the Dutch Corporate Governance Code. The details of Mathieu Vrijsen are included in the agenda. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item, and we'll read the voting results. If it could be put up on the screen, then I can read them. For the appointment of Mr. Vrijsen is 44,440,967 votes or 98.28%; against are 778,644 or 1.72%; and abstentions are 465, which is 0%. So I confirm that the majority of the votes is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. So I'd like to congratulate Mr. Vrijsen, on his reappointment. And on behalf of the rest of the Supervisory Board, say we're really looking forward to working with you for a further period. Great stuff. Thank you, Mathieu. I'll hand you the chair.

Thank you, Rudy. That means that we are now moving to item number 12 on the agenda, the authorization of the Board of Management to issue ordinary shares up to 10% for general purposes. I refer to the agenda for an explanation on this item. And as we did not receive any questions, I'll now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 42,918,743 votes or 94.91%; against were 2,300,246 votes or 5.09%; abstained were 1,087 votes or 0%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. This brings us to point number 13 on the agenda, authorization of the Board of Management to restrict or exclude the statutory pre-emptive rights when issuing ordinary shares pursuant to agenda item 12, the previous voting item. I'll refer to the agenda for an explanation on this item. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. And that is for, 42,703,648 votes or 94.43%; against, 2,513,166 votes or 5.56%; abstained were 3,262 votes or 0.01%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. That brings us to agenda point number 14, authorization of the Board of Management to issue ordinary shares up to 10% in the events of mergers, acquisition or strategic alliances. I refer to the agenda for an explanation on this item. And as we did not receive any questions, I'll now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 25,048,185 votes or 55.39%; against were 20,170,804 votes or 44.61%; and abstained were 1,087 votes or 0%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Point number 15 on the agenda, authorization of the Board of Management to restrict or exclude the statutory pre-emptive rights when issuing ordinary shares pursuant to agenda item 14. I refer to the agenda for an explanation on this item. And as we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 19,278,545 votes or 42.62%; against were 25,943,335 votes of 57.37%; abstained with 3,196 votes or 0.01%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is against the proposal and that the proposal is not adopted. Then we go to agenda point 16, authorization of the Board of Management to acquire ordinary shares in the share capital of Corbion. I refer to the agenda for an explanation on this item. And as we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 44,912,497 votes or 99.32%; against, 274,282 votes or 0.61%; and abstained, 33,297 votes or 0.07%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Then we have agenda point number 17, cancellation of the repurchased ordinary shares to reduce the issued shares capital. I refer to the agenda for an explanation on this agenda item. And again, as we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For were 43,031,744 votes or 95.16%; against were 2,187,825 votes or 4.84%; and abstained, 507 votes or 0%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. Okay. Then we have item number 18, reappointment of the external auditor for the financial year 2022. It's proposed to continue the appointment of KPMG Accountants N.V. as the external auditor for Corbion for the financial year of 2022. The responsible partner of KPMG is Mr. te Nijenhuis. The choice for reappointment is taken independently, and the collaboration with KPMG is satisfactory. As we did not receive any questions, I now conclude this agenda item and read the voting results. For is 45,216,768 votes or 99.99%. Wow, that's high; against, 50 or 0%; and abstained, 3,258 or 0.01%. I confirm that the majority of the votes cast is in favor of the proposal and that the proposal is adopted. .

And then we are at agenda point 19, any other business. And here, we will cover the follow-up questions that we have received during this meeting. And we have actually 3 follow-up questions of the VEB. Question number one. The press release of Advance 2025 of March 9, 2020, indicated that the investment in other Incubator initiatives lie between approximately 0.5% and 1.5% of the total core activities turnover of Corbion. Corbion currently indicates, and that's Page 9 of the annual report, that these investments amount to approximately 0.5% to 1.5% of Corbion's total turnover. The difference between the total core activities turnover and the total turnover is EUR 105.5 million in 2020, which means that the investment in other Incubator initiatives are or could be substantially higher. The question is, what is the reason for increasing investment in other Incubator initiatives? And do these higher investments also lead to faster growth? Eddy, can you maybe shed some light on that?

Yes, I can. So yes, you are correct, that is saying that we have a target level of EBITDA investments, as we call it, of 0.5% to 1.5%. That's really of the total core sales. However, in the current phase of still the development of the omega-3 towards a breakeven position, that means temporarily in 2020, that is, we are cruising at a slightly higher EBITDA investment level for the Incubator. So last year, it was 2.2%. And going forward, we indicated to go for the breakeven position on this omega-3 into next year. And that implies that next year and onwards, we will cruise in the Incubator in terms of investments, EBITDA losses of 0.5% to 1.5% range.

Thank you, Eddy. The next question is in 2019, a substantial write-off took place with regard to the algae business. To what extent was the remaining book value supported by the collaboration agreement between Corbion and Nestlé? Eddy, can you...

Yes. I think there was also still a previous question -- answer on the previous question, so that we did not raise the level of investment on other Incubator projects. In fact, Advance 2025 strategy was all about rebalancing the investments from the Incubator to SFS and loss. Where it's concerning the question on, is there a potential write-down on the termination of the development agreement with Nestlé? I can confirm that there will be no write-down as a consequence of that announced termination.

For the next question, I think I have to pass it on to Rudy Markham because I think that question concerns myself.

Indeed. Thank you, Chairman. This is actually not a question, but more remarks, so I'll read the comment. This is from the VEB. They would like to note the following on this agenda item, which we have already pursued and, of course, approved. The proposed reappointment of Supervisory Director pricing concerns a new period of 2 years. The Dutch Corporate Governance Code, [ brackets code ], stipulates that the maximum term of office of a Supervisory Director is, in principle, 8 years. Any reappointment for 2 years must be voted by the Supervisory Board. In accordance with the code, the VEB considers a maximum term of office of 8 years as a starting point. The final appointment of 2 years is only possible for compelling reasons and in exceptional cases. And response to that note is the motivation for the reappointment is included in the notes to the agenda, which we have already discussed and has already been provided for people to read. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll pass it back to you, if I may.

Thank you, Rudy. We have covered now all the follow-up questions, and we have answered them. And that means that we can conclude this agenda item. And then we come to item number 20, that's the closure of the meeting. And I hereby close the meeting. I would like to thank you for participating via the webcast. I know this is not as easy as when we are all physically together. And we hope we are able to meet you in person next year. Thank you very much. And with this, I close the meeting for today.