Cosan Limited (CSAN3) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, everyone. I'd like to start by welcoming you all in this webinar. Our plan here is to talk about ESG and the sustainability reports of Cosan and our controlled companies. I would like to kick off by talking a little bit about what ESG means for us. Luis is also going to talk about the recently issued sustainability reports, and then we'll open the floor for a conversation of 3 of our key shareholders that have actually been very important partners of our ESG journey. And we would like to discuss what we're doing, what we can do better, what are the best practices and how do we make sure this continues to be a very important agenda for Cosan and for the entire investment community. So I'll pass the word to Luis, who's going to do the introduction, and then I'm going to call each of you and give a brief introduction of each of the participants. So Luis, to you.

Sorry. I was on mute. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for having us here, Daniela, Christian, Fernando join us to a live conversation, and I'm sure it'll be a very good one. We are rather working -- been working and discussing a lot of these issues with the community and all of you. But let me start first talking about our reports, but more broadly, what is our journey around that? I think, first, what we look at our company in the journey ahead is about our commitment to the energy and logistics industries and about our commitment to Brazil and all the countries we operate. And one of the questions I ask myself when I'm talking outside the professional work or investor community, in my family or friends about what is the impact of our group on a day-to-day [ activity ]. So when we think about -- if you look at this, 20% of the people, 1 in 5 in Brazil, moves every day to their work, to their leisure, to the hospitals, et cetera, because of high [indiscernible], for example, right? So we fuel cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplanes to make people move. So the importance when I close my eyes, I say, if I isn't -- doesn't wake up, what we're going to have to Brazil? The same I could say to whom, right? So 1 in each -- 1 in 4 of each grains in Brazil that's exported goes to the Rumo system. So if the people in Rumo don't wake up or the trains don't run, what is the impact on the food value chain and other industry in the world? The same we could say to Comgás, where 30% of natural gas goes to their network in a lot of hospitals, schools, residents do not have hot water, for example, if Comgás and the people in Comgás didn't wake up and make the job. And the same with Moove, where 1 each 5 of the machines in a given industry wouldn't be lubricated and wouldn't be operating efficient if the people in the Moove not producing, distributing, working with that. So the point for me here is that it's having a big impact on people lives, we have to be very responsible. We have to be very safe, and we need to take care of the people around us and the people that can work with us. So this has been, over the last years, a key feature of our operation, a key feature of our management's thinking, a key feature of our working practices. And a good example I'd like to talk about, that's safety. If you go back years ago, in every industry that we operate, it was normal to talk about fatalities. So we could lose a life. And people will talk about that for 1 day or 1 minute and life would go on. And if you look about the journey about reducing accidents that the whole world has gone through and our industry and ourselves have done over the last few years, you can see the progress that people and leadership and execution can make. So today, we are very proud that in our -- all the companies we invest, they have benchmarks about safety. And when you have an accident or a [ myriad ] risk, this is thoroughly discussed and people review it. I'll just give an example. Every meeting we start in our company, we start with a [ safety moment ], where people talk about safety in their daily life or a problem that they have, et cetera. This is getting embedded in our culture. So when we have -- and unfortunately, we have a fatality in operation, this becomes something that's very, very, very serious, and is treated about the learning, the casual learning, what we're going to do to avoid it and have a list, and it counts on the remuneration of people and the scorecards of every level of the organization because this is, for us, a stable state. We don't do the operations if we couldn't guarantee safety. And I can remember, like 4 years or 5 years ago, when I was the CEO of Comgás, and we had 1 of this leadership meeting. And I talked about how I can make an impact of people that's already very good in safety. Comgás always has been very good since we acquired that in 2012 with the journey from BG and [indiscernible]. How we can do even further? And I decided that I'm going to go in the stage in front of 300 people, and we'll talk about safety, my daily life and special feedback that we'd have to myself, not only on the personal side and emotional side, but also the financial side. And at that time I said, "Look, guys, for every lost-time incident we have, I will lose 10% of my bonus." I stand up in front of the people on the first day and I said that. And I remember I was talking to my management. I was like trying to convince everyone to go and people was reluctant that I said, I didn't talk on the one and I said, "I will go." And I announced that, [ that doesn't surprise ] to everyone and said, if -- every lost accident I have, I would lose 10% of my bonus. And on the second day of the meeting, I started the meeting putting a photograph of my 2 daughters and my wife and the phone number of my wife. And I said, "Guys, we are committing with you that if I have a lost accident, one of you are going to call my daughters and they say that they're not going to go to Disney World because I have lost 10% of my bonus." And say, "Go write down this number. This is the name of them. This is the photograph, and now it's your problem to deliver with me that they're going to go to Disneyland next year." And then suddenly, I'm just using that example because all these things you're talking about today is our personal things that we are doing because we believe it, and we think it's good for our family. It's good for our society, good offer. And then naturally, on the following years, the 10% was incorporated in everyone. So now in most of our companies or all of the companies have penalties if we have lost-time incidents because we connect the scorecard of the company if they're delivering, and what we learned that we became more efficient over time. So we are targeting safety. But at the end of the day, what we got is a more efficient operation as a whole. So what we've been doing over the last years and have seen our Cosan Day and Paul and Mark with Marcelo and the team talking about ESG, the same way we are doing that. So we first trained at home, and we're trying to get more understanding and got more traction. And then we decided to announce it more broadly this year with the 10 commitments and improving our report with the help of a lot of you that are on the call today and all the people around that, because it's one of our bucket list, we like to deliver stuff. We are a group of people that believe that execution is key. And we like to talk not much and work more, and then we go and talk about what we have. And then I'm very proud today, when I look back and see, for example, the report from Rumo that has just been issued today, the sustainability report from Rumo, when you look at the evolution is the fourth Rumo report, if I'm not wrong. And if you look at the evolution, you look back on the Tier 1s and the ones today and see what the team has done in terms of working committed for the future about reducing emissions, improving diversity, working with the communities, et cetera. So this is a development that people are now more and more believe and incorporate, this is the only way to go. It cannot be a brand. It cannot be a statement. It cannot be just a logo on the door in a beautiful thing that is going to work. We need to leave that, and we still have a lot of things to live on that. But I think my job here is engrained in the companies, in the culture, ESG, like we have done with safety and like we have done with our execution, fashion and the other things we have done. But this will attract more people, and this is why we're doing, of course, it makes sense for business. We're going to attract more people. Our brand will build more value. Our cost of capital will go down. We'll be more efficient. We're going to -- our products are going to be better because we're doing that. And at the end, we're going to be doing more with less. So this is what we decided to increase our voice about that because we think the society is a good time. It's the best time, and we have been preparing the company further. We have things to show, and we have a lot of things to learn, and we have things to develop for next year. So we are very excited about that. I think the company is getting a lot of momentum. And of course, we have a lot of challenge about developing people, creating knowledge, creating more depth inside the people. But when you look at our industries, we can deliver that. And I think what's the beauty about that was exciting because it's easy to create a new business and say that this business have all the ESG engrained. What is difficult is having a business like energy and logistics and do that on a better way. And I think this is -- a lot of times I'm talking with young professionals and say, "Come work with us and help us to get this industry better." Because it's easy to be outside and criticizing it to say, you should be more of this and more of that. But okay, come here and help us do that. And this is how we transport billions of tons every year more efficient. How we do a lot of trips to deliver fuels to the sites and do that. And we look at everything that we pack, we can do a lot of things. So when I look at E2G, what we are doing. We look at biogas, we are doing. We look at tracking of our efficiency. We look at fuel efficiency on the railroad. So we like a lot in our company the word E. So we need to do ESG and deliver good financial results, right? We need to move the world, which still need a lot of fossil fuels with things that are going to make fossil fuels more efficient and want to create the path to energy transition because the word [ or ] is very simple, right? So we have a lot of market share with no profitability. You have a completely clean business, but you have no business. So the challenge is doing both things at the same time and doing this transformation. So this is what we are trying to achieve. This is what we commit in our report. This is going to be tracking every year and paying back our commitments to you, like we're doing in the areas -- or with the hard numbers, in finance, on capital structure, et cetera, but also on these other elements that we brought to the table and will be more split. But we believe that when you put targets, you put good people to deliver, you follow up, things progress. So you're going to see the same discipline you have seen in all of the things we have been doing in this space, and we are fully committed and very excited because we think this will bring better people to our team, better customers, our brand will be more value. And we -- hopefully, we have the recognition for the investor community with lower cost of capital and more support. So I stop here because I know that Dani, Fernando and Christian has a lot to share with us and discuss. So let's move on, Paula.

Yes. So we're going to talk about those 3 little letters, the E, the S and the G. I think maybe if we think about it from bottom-up, G is something that has always been part of the debate among the investor community. But I think there's an important evolution that goes from G being a debate between ownership and corporations or being a debate about specific things to a broader concept of G, which at the end of the day, means good management and long-term thinking. We're going to talk about social, which in the past had more of a legacy component, people talking about labor and stuff like that to a point where we think about real investments that impact the communities and impact the businesses, both in a positive way and create a virtual cycle. And we're going to talk about the E which in the past was more of risk management license to operate, not necessarily urgent. And I think at this point, it's very clear to everyone that not only is urgent, but it can be a good business. And then building on Luis' point of the E, so it has to be good, but it has to be a good business as well. So I'm going to invite first Daniela Acosta. She's a portfolio manager and country specialist with the emerging markets, teams and [ Robeco ] being -- having been in other assets like Nomura and [indiscernible]. I want to make a statement here and a thank you to Dani because she's one of the investors that joined us in this crusade and helped us identify the gaps and where we could see areas of improvement more than 2 years ago, and this has been an amazing journey together. So I'll open the floor for Dani to talk a little bit about why she embraced that cause and why is this important for her? And what are the questions that she wants to ask to Luis.

Thank you, Paula. Thank you, everyone. So I will tell from the start, when now -- we started talking about ESG at Cosan. So in 2018, we saw additional upside to Cosan's price. There was a big potential in unlocking value to shareholders via an improvement in some metrics. And then, yes, it would be corporate governance improvement, but also ESG metrics. So we decided to increase our position and take a more active role. What was very fortunate from this process is when we started intensifying conversations with Cosan, we found a very fertile ground with a company opening to talk to shareholders, that's key for a successful journey together. So we have Paula, Phillipe have been very active, I mean, we had a lot of conversations in the meanwhile. We knew that the company was trying to restructure, to simplify the shareholding structure like is doing finally right now. There was the attempt of doing it previously. But then, yes, because the company couldn't do it in a full process, then, yes, the shareholders had to give back some information that eventually, we would prefer a complete process. The company listened to us, listened to our shareholders and pulled back and then waited for a better moment to restructure itself. That was really incredible that we could be heard. Then we, and me and Paula more specifically, we started talking about the ESG metrics of Cosan. Cosan has a huge natural capital. And then what we saw was that there were a lot of information in subsidiaries that needed to be consolidated in the holding company. And then Paula took leadership in this project in consolidating everything. She built a team, and then Camilla joined, Phillipe also always helping on that, and other people involved as well. But then it was a huge effort of Cosan in order to consolidate all the data that was already available in the operating subsidiaries and bring it to shareholders so we could have a better grasp of what was going on. So that was a process that started after the 2017 report, so it was an improvement that came in the 2018 report. It was already seen. But then now even further, when looking to the targets that Cosan has achieved. For us investors, ESG is becoming more and more important. I mean, we, [ Robeco ], we integrate more than 90% of our investments with ESG practices. We believe that ESG will migrate from a niche kind of product to mainstream. We think mainstream investing in the future will be integrating ESG practices. Our clients, they have been demanding for it. We see clients, they want to know that they are making a difference and investing in companies that are sustainable, that have sustainable goals. It's something that is aspirational for investors, is aspirational for our clients. And also, we see that ESG practices and better ESG goals, they also can translate in better shareholder returns, a more quality of management and the long-term return for companies. So we strongly believe that Cosan in that sense is on the right path because it's pursuing all those goals that we want to hear more about.

Okay. So now, Dani, you want to ask a question or you want me to introduce the others and then go back to the questions? I think if you have a question to Luis, maybe it's a good time to put it.

Okay. No, if I can continue. So Luis, since we were talking about goals, I wonder if you could tell us how can you follow the new sustainability goals that the Cosan Group has established? Do you have that in your KPIs? Or management has that in KPIs? How does it work? Can you talk about these KPIs? Are they related to ESG? What's the rationale behind it?

Good question, Daniela. I think let me start. You know that our model is a lot about giving the companies a lot of mandate and independence to run the different business. What our role in the -- in Cosan as a holding is to encourage, support it, follow up and make sure that things go. So we are focusing a lot, as you know, and this was -- we're using the same model. This is why I speak a lot about the safety. Because this, I think, is a very successful model to ensure that people get it, use it, deliver and are rewarded by them, right? So what we've be doing is using that same model. So we have established the big goals, the 10 -- those 2 quantitative and 8 qualitative that like to work on that and understand this is our expectation. So this is -- as Cosan is always expectation that all the companies that we participate, invest or control, they need to adhere, they need to go through. The way they would translate to their own operation, of course, vary. The operations are -- have different opportunities and different challenge, et cetera. So this is the first one. So all the CEOs of invested companies are fully behind the 10 commitments. This was not done on the space or on the high level or in the ivory tower. This was discussed and constructed and agreed in a sense that we, as the team, believes that we can achieve. So Phillipe, Marcelo, Nelson and Berto as well as the smallest investments we have like [indiscernible] and [ PAYLI ], [ Ato ], et cetera, fully behind it and have participated and established to that and have supported in the discussions we have with the Board about that. So the Board has supported the managers behind. Now as I said, it's about execution, right? So we have a lot to improve on that. So we have different KPIs, like take, for example, diversity, which is a big challenge. For us, the industry come from is industries that have low diversity, but that's not excuse that we cannot achieve diversity on the very different levels, not only gender, but all the different aspects. And we have used, for example, respect as our main flag around diversity. It' about respecting different points of views, about respecting different behaviors, about different -- respecting different preference, et cetera. And every one of the company have goals about achieving their improvements year-on-year about diversity. The way we translate that to remuneration, of course, is different. Some are hard numbers on the remuneration like safety, as we talked. Some are more qualitative that we use around when we have decided our panels and our split of our bonus pool about the different drives that we take care onto safety part, but the qualitative part about values and the way people behave bring the way we want to be the Cosan or the company way that people are inviting that. But all of them are becoming more and more measured, more and more stretch goals because the way we like to operate and follow through. And again, as I said in the beginning, we're going to be exposing that and be completely transparent in the areas that we are falling short, and we need to get better. The areas that we have done bad and then we talked in the beginning in on that. So diversity is a key issue for us. We believe we can do much better. I think we have addressed it and have a great plans in terms of the projects that will improve our carbon footprint. And we believe, firmly believe, and as you know, we have been one of the companies that have helped and have worked very hard to develop [ Genova Pi ], which is our first way to a market-driven way to give carbon pricing in a way, right? So it's only certain products, but still, I think it's a big start, which Brazil can again lead that. And you have seen how we've been very vocal about all the opportunity that Brazil has in becoming a green powerhouse. And I don't know what's the translation of vira lata to English, but I think we need, as Brazilians, to get out of this mindset, but we don't have good thinking, right? So we have a tremendous clean energy natives in Brazil, both in transport and energy generation. Of course, we have a lot of challenge in the way you are seeing Amazon and others. But let's talk about things that we do already very well. We are an envy of a lot of European or other countries in the world about having our metrics. And we have penetration of ethanol, 45% of clean fuels in our metrics, right? So which other countries completely all the way around. They have 85% of dirty fuels on their metrics. So the thing is that we have translated in action, right? So the ethanol second generation, the biogas, the reduction of fuel consumption is booming, the ability of Comgás to deploy their network with lower carbon footprint, the expansion of our core generation and distributed generation plants with solar and biogas. So there's a lot of movement in the company that people understand that our mission is to help our customers to have less carbon emission, right? Because at the end of the day, we are enablers of things we do. We are enabler to other industries. I think the beauty of our portfolio that we touch every inch. So if you think about every household and every professional can be a customer for Cosan Group, right? So you can have a small butcher in São Paulo that's consuming gas to a large mill that is using our diesel, to a customer at the pump that's selecting ethanol to using their car. So that's every one of the Brazilian business or every one of the Brazilian people, the other day was thinking about delivery, right? So if you look about who has been the leader in oil for motorcycle, so every delivery that people receive from [ Hapi ], from [ Radi ], from Uber Eats, most likely one, each of the 3 motorcycles that are delivering in your house use one of our products. So everything that we can do to improve the lubrication of that vehicle, reduce their emission working with Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. We are doing our job to enable the reduction. So this is the way, Dani, that we are going about it. So we have created the commitment at the top level of the organization. It's not my commitment. It's our management team commitment with all the CEOs, and Marcelo and the Board, cascading down, having clear metrics of that, incentivizing people to look at it and follow up, and creating the recognition of people that go the extra mile on these metrics. So it's not only about delivering the targets, the financial targets, how you go about the financial fund. We had -- again, we come to our E word. We want people that are able to do both. We don't want superstars on financial that are lousy on that, and we don't want superstars on ESG who are lousy on their financial [ plan ]. That's not good enough. The challenge we want people to be able to do both things, and we're going to support them with our encouragement, our training, our being together, and we're going to face certain things, we assure, but we're going to be there to make sure that people embrace that journey and continue to deliver.

Okay. So I'm going to hand it over to Fernando. Fernando Perez is at Dynamo since 1996. Dynamo been a great partner of Cosan, is an important shareholder of ours. And I think maybe tracing in parallel to the work that we did with Dani, Dynamo has been amazing with us in the process of developing governance and understanding that governance and ownership can walk hand-in-hand and fill -- and fall into that category of the ease that Luis mentioned. Those things can very well be done together. And I think it reinforces our view of the role of governance and management. And so again, thank you, Fernando, for joining us. You can talk a little bit about ESG at Dynamo and then ask your question to Luis.

Okay. Paula, thank you. Thank you very much for your words and for inviting me. Thank you, Paula and Luis, for inviting Dynamo to participate in the important milestone for Cosan. It's really a pleasure to be here together with Daniela and Christian, distinguished colleagues. Okay. I'll touch a little bit more on the G aspect. It's got enough, as we have been engaged in corporate governance discussion for a while. Well, first, there is a lot of interesting stuff to cover. It's a long story of relationships. I took some kind of notes to not lose the argument and try to be as [ fast ] as possible to save everyone's time. We know that corporate governance is an evolving process, and a broadened complex team and from our experiences like to select 2 important aspects. One is fairness, and the other is in respect. Know that fairness is this -- at the end of the day, trying to bring more equilibrium, the relationships, increasing asymmetries in respect to the ability to listen to the others. To put on the other shoes, as Cosan said in this report, it is for empathy. So this is both important and in some cases, fairness in codes, the current rules and values. And respect, it is some kind of lead indicator, in our view, where the evolving structures we're going to emerge because it essentially comprised different tier of the integrations of the participants. So respectful interactions are the incubators of innovation and progress in corporate governance. Cosan is exactly that. Our experience of interaction with Cosan was basically exactly on this framework on an evolving process, basically on fairness and respect. It's a long story. You all know since the IPO, we saw Cosan had a very strong entrepreneurial DNA. I think that meaningful growth has always been part of this entrepreneurial vein of Cosan. And at sometimes, it dominated Cosan's mindset in the beginning. So if you take the episode of [ leasing ] CZZ in 2007. At that time, there were kind of noise when new local shareholders were well protected under the Novo Mercado standards and we are some way pressured to migrate to more uncertain restriction. And of course, that leads up today, we understand that this kind of approach was the dominance of the entrepreneurial view at that time as you compromise forecasting huge opportunities for the ethanol distribution in the U.S. market. And then in 2011, we had another very, very important event in Cosan's users. The deal with Shell, a joint venture in 50-50 for a major company with high standards of compliance, accountability and transparency. And from this point on, as we understand Cosan somehow a way to another fundamental dimension in the life of an organization, which is the ownership structure that achieves the relationship between shareholders. So from then on, we have reserved important improvements in Cosan offer [ involving practice ], like the first steps to establish a true partnership where this level is active, that were important factors for the success of the company also become shareholders. As we understand in Dynamo, we think that it is a major achievement, one that investor community in general didn't seem to give the due way. And of course, along this long interaction with Cosan from our side, first, I think [ Peter Marcelo ], our dear [ Peter Marcelo ] and Bruno [indiscernible] and many other guys from our investment team, you know. That's for several times and not the [indiscernible] of Marcos, Marcelo, Luis Henrique, Paula. And we are always, and respectfully, listened to us. We made our point, frankly, is a lot of shareholders with the solid interest in the progress of the company. We -- if you look at the hindsight, maybe as a self-criticism, we don't know maybe -- I don't know if my questions agree with me at this point, but maybe we push it too hard. Our concerns regarding the quality of the [indiscernible] and the ethanol business, and the data are proving important for the company looking at the ESG perspective, maybe we're a little bit myopathy regarding the future of -- with respect to biomass, second-generation of ethanol. But in the other hand, we have been convinced that simplification of the structure, of shareholder structure will be accretive for everyone. And maybe this was an agenda from other investors as well, the company capital is in everybody and then recently a bold movement, Cosan announcing the terms of the corporate restructuring collapse in the holding company. We have been the weighting of the golden shares. The terms of change in valuation will be defined independent committees. It will be submitted to shareholders approval in a very clean and fair deal, now it unlocks value, and prepare the company for future growth. So I think today, the ownership structure of Cosan is very -- it's a very interesting one. We have a threefold with shareholders of reference. The original entrepreneur with founder mentality. We have a group of competent executives, as entitled with shares with drive and skin in the game. And we have a [indiscernible] minor institutional long-term shareholders that have [indiscernible] engaged with the [ partners ]. I think this is a very robust construction. Of course, it is not a guarantee that all the feature will be rules. Property reputation is also something that is slowly built and can be quickly waste away, not a minor false step. So there are challenges down the road, especially if the E2C will come up. We will enter in a stage of reputation, conflicts of interest, depending what box you are. But we are convinced, confident that Cosan today is a mature organization. The recent corporate resurgence and evidence that the company has learned and have honed a longer time. It is positioned to capture the outstanding opportunity of its portfolio of investments. So these are my not so deep. If I have some remarks on the [indiscernible], I'm afraid you have done over a few. Or can I just [ wince ] one column on ESG.

Go ahead with your question, and then we'll go back to Luis.

Okay. So well, ESG, we are long-term investors and sustainability, it's part of our investment process. Now we are focused more on the -- on the E. We'll try to be more -- a deep understanding on the issues and in Cosan in general. I think that there has a deep momentum looking at the company through different angles, which is reverting interest aspects to somehow were waiting for us. We have to recognize that. But we think that the -- our investment process has been becoming a bit more robust. We think that the companies in Brazil are still in a diagnosis level in general collecting data, accessing the carbon footprint. And we're defining where they are and where they want to be. And of course, regarding Cosan, we have reserved each year for August that materialize in this important sustainability report. And this year, the disclose of the 10 commitments is a major improvement because for us, investors, we can move from just counting and putting that to measure real [ fast ], which is very important. It's completely different, it's a completely different dimension. So thank you for your efforts. Okay. I make it -- I'll make it short. The question, please. If you look on an authentic and reverse the approach to sustainability that Cosan is doing, it has to do with corporate future. Maybe some companies need some kind of corporate future, some future transformation. In the case of Cosan, I think that the reality is a little bit more challenging as you have a portfolio of companies. So the question is how do you manage at the holding line on the challenge to infuse a Cosan way of being and at the same time, respect in the autonomy and the identity of the [ EVC ] company's level?

Thanks, Fernando. Thanks for the retrospective detail. I think it was very, very well said on that. And I think this -- I think there's a couple of points on that. I think if you look at the way over the last few years that we have formed this portfolio [ from everyone ] was about the partnerships, right? So we constructed things with other companies, different companies, different styles, but all of them brought good things for us through the acquisition. They brought good people. They brought strong cultures, and they got opportunities for us to evolve their models, right, because of the way they were managed or the structure or being multinationals, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that has led us to learn about on this process, that what's very important is the autonomy of the business. It's very important that the businesses have their own culture because of the industries they are competing. But also, it's very important that we try to create some points that -- points that helps that culture, that business to be better, which is called an ingredient of the DNA, right? So you like injecting DNAs in the different companies. And I think one of the key features of that DNA was increasing the freedom in the autonomy and the mandate of the management, of the [indiscernible]. So if you think about the characteristic when we did the downstream business, when we did their homework, when we did Comgás, and we did what's moved today, one of the key feature that is getting the people to do what they believe and have the ownership of that and of course, the accountability. So I think it's the first, I would say, if you use the DNA that, in our view, will continue in over the life of the organization. We have a lot to do with the view of the founder, right, and it has to do a lot, I think, with also the things that people that came from other structures that were more mature or more difficult to operate that's loved about it. People that came from Shell, the people that came from Exxon, the people even that came from BG, people even that came from ALL, et cetera. So we've got that environment that you could try on the things that you believe, that you have the support. So we continue -- and we'll continue to drive that way. And we believe that's the best way. Never the culture of Raízen, will be the same as the culture of Compass, will be the same culture of Rumo, would be the same as Moove; because if you do that, you're going to fail because the industry, they compete; the customers they serve; the supply chains or ecosystem that they have built, they are there. So what we have done is safety and what will we do with ESG, we do over the last few years, is injecting that stimulus for people to do on their own business, what's the right thing, looking at these principles and values, more than how about the micro management of the target, other things, you need to do this and that or what. So -- and you're going to see that from the reports and the sustainability report. They have some common traits, but they have a lot of unique things that has to do with the culture of that [ platform ], and we truly believe on that, on managing the culture is as important or more important than managing CapEx or managing your capital structure, et cetera. We have a discipline in all the leaders that are managing this business. They do that, they talk about that, they spend time about that, and evolve because culture is something that you evolve over time, right? So you see a lot of companies that have failed because have not recognized that the culture should evolve towards society, employers, customers' want, and they believe that their way to do is the only way to do and they keep doing it the same way because of the success of the past and it's not guarantee of the success of the future. So what we have been doing over the last few years, and we're doing even more and now it's to embed it, the thinking, the values of ESG in the minds of the management, that you -- on their own way, get that solution through the culture of the company. So you're going to see different ways that the companies will evolve, on the way they're going to manage that issues because it has to do with their own way to do that, and we think that's the best way. So my role on that and the role of a Chairman, the role of Marcelo, the role of Paula, is to help them to be successful. We believe that our mission here is to unblock staff, to give them resource and to help them. It's not to be the protagonist than to be the guys who are going to be doing it. They need to do it, and they need to believe. And we want to charge them, we want to reward them, we want to cultivate them, and then unblock the challenge they have. We're going to do a lot of best practice sharing. And I think sharing with you one of the benefits of the COVID-19, if there is any, was about putting us even more together. So I think us as a team is much more because we have to face some common challenges that are not unique to the company, that we need to do together. And I think this has helped a lot, even more transfer of best practice. It's going to mute after the COVID is improved, about the company's work even more together, maintaining the unique definition of their business, the culture, and the way of work. But I think our challenge like installing some of the DNAs of the 23 sequence of the DNA of the human being, some of that if you do that 2023, and we should have -- you're going to see 3 or 4 or 5 of these things being integrated in every one of [indiscernible]. This is, what for me, would be success for us. And we are working in 3 important points. And just to share with you. So yes, 3 or 4, the journey on technology and digitalization, which again, is an important component there. And the third one is people. Of course, I think we can get even better although this is besides allocating capital and looking at the portfolio. So my time spent between these 3 things and capital allocation, of course, a lot of work is said now about the simplification. We have a lot of work to deliver what we have promised. So we are very busy working in putting it together and [indiscernible], as we agree spent a lot of -- but is -- we need to see that as a film. It's an evolution also, which has to do with the founder evolution together, the way he built the team, the way he supports on the partnership, the way he learned from the partners -- company partners that we're [indiscernible], and I think this means things are maturing over time. Like everyone, we need to do it at the right time. And I think the right time has to come, and this is why we are accelerating now.

Thank you. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much, Luis.