Cosmo First Limited (COSMOFIRST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the investor call of Cosmo First Limited to discuss the Q2 and H1 FY '24 results. Today, we have with us from the management, Group CEO, Mr. Pankaj Poddar; and Group CFO, Mr. Neeraj Jain. Starting off with the statutory declaration. Certain statements in the conference call may be forward-looking. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subjected to uncertainties and changes in circumstances. The statements are not guarantees of future results. [Operator Instructions] Please note that the conference is being recorded. Now may I request Mr. Neeraj Jain to take us through the opening remarks, subsequent to which we can open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, Neeraj-ji.

Thank you. Very good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Neeraj Jain, Group CFO at Cosmo First along with my colleague, Mr. Pankaj Poddar, Group CEO at Cosmo First. Our financial results for the September '23 quarter as well as the investor presentations are available on company's website. We will start today's call with a brief on the performance of the company, which may be followed by questions. The improved quarter 2 EBITDA of INR 72 crores is actually backed by a couple of factors. First is enhanced BOPP film margins, primarily due to festive season demand pickup, partial revival of export demand and the range bound movement of raw material prices, which was not the case in previous quarters. Clearly, the company continues to outperform in large part of the industry. With an objective to rationalize cost, the company is also in the process of shifting the extrusion coating line from South Korea to India and has accordingly carried out operational restructuring in South Korea plant during the quarter 2. Consequently, the consolidated results for the quarter 2 are affected by onetime restructuring cost of INR 3 crores. The export market showed signs of improvement with better quality of specialty orders. Overall, specialty volume in September '23 quarter was about 65% of company's total BOPP volume. The corresponding period last year was 62%. BOPP film margins have been running at close to INR 18 per kg during September '23 quarter versus INR 10 per kg in June '23 quarter. The margin still remains low compared to the average historical margins. It may be noted that even in such a challenging market, the company's specialty margins broadly remained intact in line with the last year, except for some sales mix change impact and uneven orders from a specialty export customer for a high-margin specialty film. We expect these specialty orders to flow back from next year. Now coming to a brief about the September 2023 quarter financial results. The consolidated sales for the September '23 quarter is INR 654 crores (sic) [ INR 664 crores ], which is higher by 1% from June '23 quarter, although volume was higher by 7% compared to previous quarter. Average raw material price in quarter 2 was lower compared to quarter 1, which gets passed on to the customers in terms of selling price. The quarter 2 sales growth in value terms is appearing as 1% despite 7% volume growth. The EBITDA for the quarter is INR 72 crores compared to INR 55 crores in June '23 quarter and INR 124 crores in September '22 quarter. Moving to a little bit about the outlook for the coming period, more particularly on the margins and cost rationalization efforts. First, on the margins. Near-to-medium term BOPP and BOPET margins are expected to remain subdued, and this is more so for BOPET films due to an industry-wide supply overhang. There has been 58% capacity increase over December '21 capacity in BOPET and 23% increase in BOPP during the same period. Further, an incremental 17% more capacity is expected by March 2026 in BOPET and 40% capacity addition is expected in BOPP by March 2026. The company is working towards BOPET margin improvement over the next couple of quarters on the strength of shrink films and many other specialty films already launched. Besides specialty films, the company shall also focus on various cost rationalization initiatives during FY '24, aggregating to close to INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores in annualized impact, which broadly includes renewable power and cost rationalization at Korea plant. Now moving to packaging growth projects. Under our new initiatives, the company has launched its rigid packaging business under the brand name Cosmo Plastech, which will manufacture thin-wall containers and sheets for a wide range of FMCG products, particularly for food industry. This is a large market of about INR 10,000 crores in India. Cosmo's capacity in Phase 1 shall be 4,800 metric ton per annum, which should be able to generate between INR 70 crores to INR 80 crores of annual sales. The company has also started metallization of capacitor film recently, which shall serve the rapidly growing electronics industry in India. The market size of capacitor films in India is about 15,000 metric ton. Cosmo's capacity in Phase I shall be 600 metric ton per annum. Both of these businesses, which is rigid packaging as well as the metallization of capacitor film are closely related to existing flexible packaging business, which is company's strength area. There's a strong synergy for flexible packaging in several ways, including raw materials, customer base, et cetera, et cetera. Work on BOPP and CPP line is progressing in line with the plan. Both the lines will be the world's largest production capacity lines and will increase company's production capacity by close to 50% in a phased manner by March 2025. With high-speed, large [indiscernible] line which will rationalize the cost of production also by -- between 3% to 5% depending on the product. The CPP line and BOPP line will promote sustainability and it will offer mono layered structure. Now moving to Specialty Chemicals subsidiary. The Specialty Chemicals subsidiary has got good initial response with its packaging and lamination adhesives. Now we expect to scale up the same in second half of FY '24. Adhesives along with master batch and coating vertical will drive future growth for the company's subsidiary in Specialty Chemicals. Moving to Petcare vertical, Zigly. Company's Petcare vertical is expected to grow rapidly and now, in fact, in monthly GMVO, INR 4 crore rupee has been clocked, largely on the back of the expanding retail footprints, which currently, we have 19 stores and increasing online presence. The company shall now look for consolidation in Zigly in the second half of FY '24 before initiating next round of growth in FY '25. At macro level, Zigly is all set to make substantial impact to India's Petcare industry. Moving to balance sheet and debt levels. The company is looking for close to INR 490 crore of CapEx to be incurred over the next 2 years, which is mainly on BOPP line and CPP line, which we discussed. As at September '23 end, the company's net debt is INR 502 crores, which is 1.7x to EBITDA and 0.4x to equity. So fairly healthy strong balance sheet. With this, I would like to open the call for the questions, please.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Jatin Damania ] from Swan Investment Manager.

Sir, just wanted to understand from you on the industry perspective. Now you indicated that near about 58% of the new capacity has been added over December '21. In your press release, you also mentioned that probably another 40% and 17% of the new capacity will be added by March '26. So do you think that the demand will pick up substantially to cover the entire capacity? Because even if you assume that 10% improvement in the demand and 75% as an operating capacity, there will be substantial oversupply in the market for another 3 to 4 years and will pressurize on the overall margins. So, your call on that?

See, if we talk about BOPET, then BOPET right now is struggling with a lot of extra capacity because of huge additions. And what we expect is that BOPET should get corrected in next 2, 2.5 years' time. Until then, it will gradually improve. We do not expect any immediate improvement when it comes to BOPET margins. There will be some improvement happening over a period of time as the supply balance improves. As far as BOPET is concerned, till December '24, there's hardly any line getting added. If at all, there will be any addition, it will happen in December '24. But beyond that, in '25 and middle of '26, there are multiple lines coming during that phase, and that is the phase when we expect that there will be an excess supply, and there will be pressure on the margins in the calendar year '25 and '26.

Okay. Sir, then probably at one end, you are saying that the demand is growing and we are moving into more of a specialty. So the lower margin, the commodity will continue to drive, and what are the cost initiatives? I mean definitely Q2, we did -- we see some improvement in the margin. So how much do we allude that to cost initiatives that we have taken?

See, one is we are -- there is already a note by our CFO, Mr. Neeraj Jain. We are moving to more and more renewable power where the cost is coming down. We are doing a lot of other initiatives also. The second thing is, new line will have a far better cost proposition versus the existing lines. So there are multiple initiatives happening when it comes to raw material, when it comes to power. These are 2 main areas where we are taking initiatives. So there is power -- there is cost coming down. But having said that, Cosmo will remain focused on expanding specialty sales where the margin stability is much better than the commodity products. And obviously, any new line that comes up has always got a lower cost than the older lines. So to that extent, the new line that Cosmo is bringing will have some advantage. But we do see bunching up of capacity. Having said that, what we're also seeing is that a lot of players are either trying to cancel their contracts -- we've already seen at least 2, 3 lines where companies have decided to either cancel their contracts or delay the lines. So I'm sure some better sense will prevail in the industry where some more players will decide those who are coming up with their lines in '25 and '26, they will still have the opportunity to delay their line. I mean that decision obviously will have to be made by such players. But so those possibilities are also there where some players can defer it. We have seen that in polyester as well. But in polyester that opportunity was not there as much with the players, but in BOPP, that opportunity would be there. But if it is not there, in '25, '26, there could be softening of margins.

Sure. And sir, on the specialty front, now last quarter, you had indicated that there was a delay in a couple of customers' order and you are expecting that customer to come back in the month of August and September. Now we are expecting that this new specialty order or the customers' order to start flow from the next year onwards. So how is the trend on the specialties when looking at from the near-term perspective?

See a lot of recovery has already happened in specialty or -- specialty, if you remember a few quarters back had come down to 57%. And from current quarter, it is now stabilizing and has now touched 65%. There is one particular specialty category where the sales happened with one particular customer. That customer there is some sales revival expected in this year also. But the majority of the sales, they are saying that will happen only in the next year. And we had a pretty detailed call with them, and they had their logical reasons for that. So there, we have no choice than to wait. But otherwise I would say that largely, the demand is coming back in majority of the segments. And even exports is now getting better because inflation is under control in Europe to a large extent.

The next question is from the line of [ Aditya Rathi ] from Aequitas Investment.

Sir, like you mentioned that we already have oversupply in BOPP and BOPET and a lot of players are already deferring their projects. So do we also see our projects getting postponed because of the oversupply?

As far as Cosmo's concerned, we are moving ahead as per the time line itself. So we've already moved quite ahead on this. And Cosmo, I would say is much better protected because of the specialties and a lot of other reasons. So Cosmo is going ahead as per the plan itself. But we do see that -- I think this would apply more for the new entrants because they may not have enough experience to operate in this industry. But it's a call to be taken by every company. As far as Cosmo is concerned, we stick to our schedule, and we'll go ahead. What we really expect is that right now, the BOPP is not so much of overcapacity, it's quite balanced position. I would say slight overcapacity, polyester is in an overcapacity zone. Polyester would become more balanced, as I said earlier, around 2 years from now. While BOPP will remain balanced until '24 and '25 onwards, there could be an oversupply in BOPET.

So sir, continuing with this, how confident are we on utilizing our specialized line versus commodity line?

See Cosmo, because of various reasons, what we have historically seen is that we are always able to utilize our capacity. We never had that challenge in the past.

For specialty products, right?

No, no. Whether commodity or specialty because commodity content is very less. And many of our specialty customers do need commodity also. So even now when we see that there are dearth of orders, Cosmo's lines are normally remain occupied for next few days in any situation. So I mean until now we've been comfortably placed, and we see no reason that -- and the other thing is one of our -- I mean the new line that we are coming up we will be one of the early ones to come up with a new line. And that also should give us the advantage to fill up the line relatively faster than the competition, which would come a little later.

Okay. Sir, I'm actually specifically asking about the new line that we are developing and how confident are we on utilizing it?

You're saying rigid packaging?

No, no, sir. BOPP and CPP.

We are quite confident at this stage. I mean with the brand name that Cosmo enjoys, obviously, any new line comes up, it does take 3, 4 quarters to fill it up. But with the branding and with the product portfolio we have, we should be able to fill it up fairly fast.

Okay. Sir, and what will be our capacity utilization at good quarters?

Other than the breakdowns, we normally operate at full capacity.

Sorry?

I mean barring the breakdowns if at all it happens in any quarter, we always operate on full capacity utilization.

Full capacity utilization. Okay. Sir, my last question is regarding the rigid packaging that Cosmo Plastech and metallized capacitor that you mentioned. You mentioned that we'll be able to touch an annual sales of INR 60 crores to INR 70 crores in rigid packaging. So sir, when should we expect this to come up completely?

It should take being -- I mean that's a very related business, though it's a new business. So we expect this should also take 12 to 18 months to fill it up completely. I mean the overall potential could be higher. I mean I personally feel it can go even beyond INR 70 crores. But yes, it would take 12 to 18 months.

And sir, for capacitor?

Capacitor should happen faster. We should be able to fill it up in quarter 4 of this year.

Quarter 4. And sir, what is the annualized sales that we are expecting from this 600 MTPA line?

The 600 metric ton line...?

How much annual sales are we expecting from this?

As far as capacity is concerned, the revenue should be close to -- full potential close to INR 40 crores.

Between INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores...

Yes. Around INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores.

And sir, margins on rigid and capacitors?

And then obviously, we have to see as we move along, it's too early for us to predict anything. But both should have stable margins that's for sure.

Sir, not in terms of guidance, in terms of what are we targeting?

Guidance is not allowed as per the SEBI regulations. But I mean, effectively, what we've been saying is that we would like to maintain higher ROCE and ROE numbers.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Mukesh Panjwani from WC Securities.

Yes. Am I audible?

Yes.

Sir, my question is like the products we have launched recently, rigid packaging, films and capacitor films. So how should we categorize these? Like are these commodity films or the specialty films?

Both. See, both have very stable margins. Capacitor, if you really look at, there's a very high level of import happening in the country. And therefore, the margins are reasonable, I would say. And rigid packaging is, again, there's a cost-plus pricing with the brands directly. And see, rigid packaging has a lot of synergies for us because this gives us a direct entry into the brands without competing with our customers in film business. And having a bigger entry in the brand helps you in many different ways, even in the film businesses. So both have a lot of similarities and benefits, and that is what we expect. But both will have a stable line of margins unlike selling where the margins fluctuate a lot, they should not fluctuate as much.

Okay. Okay. And sir, what about this Zigly business? Like by when we should like go for the demerger of this business?

As we've said, there are 2 to 3 years. So most likely, we'll do this in FY '26, but it's too early to predict. I mean that's the planning that we've done initially. And at this stage, that is the time frame we are looking at, but we will see more closer to that date that -- when do we get profitable in this business and accordingly, we'll decide. But tentative date is FY '26, '26 end basically.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And sir, like our target is to get 80% volume from specialty. So when it happens, would we be like not facing such pressure -- pricing pressure, which we are facing right now. Can we hope for better scenario?

It will certainly reduce.

Okay. Up to what extent? Can you give some percentage if possible in the terms of OP and EBITDA?

See, every -- just give me a second and let me do my back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Sorry?

Just one second.

Yes, yes.

See, it will have an incremental impact of 2.5% to 3% to our EBITDA.

The next question is from the line of Jinal from Emkay Global Financial Services.

So I have few questions. So first is, how much is the revenue contribution from domestic market as well as exports?

Sorry, come again?

How much is the revenue contribution from domestic and as well as exports?

So very broadly, domestic has been close to 55% and export, 45%.

Domestic is 40%...?

55%.

55%. And exports is?

45%.

45%. Okay. Sir, second is, how are we placed in terms of pricing domestic as well as and exports? And what differentiates Cosmo First among its peers in the entire industry in terms of sizing?

Yes. We have talked about this many, many times in the past. Our main differentiation is the specialty business, our innovation, our culture, our people. So there are many differences. But by far, all this results in better specialty and therefore, more stable margins than many of our peers.

Okay. Okay. So third is, in value-added products, sir, how much is the contribution of value-added products for the entire business? Again, sir, how are we different from our peers in terms of -- how are we different in terms of peers in value addition products?

You can look at that from the competition. But typically, in a bad market, it depends where exactly the commodity market is there. What we have seen is in a good market, we stay 2%, 3% above when it comes to the margins. And in a bad market, it can be even 6% to 7% difference.

Okay. And last question is, sir, I was reading somewhere that this quarter packaging business has not done that well. So I just would like to know that what is the long-term impact on this business going forward? And how will be the industry going forward, packaging industry?

See, it is an ever-shining industry. Obviously, every industry has its good tides and low tides. So right now, there is some bit of extra capacity. But if you really see, even in these such troubled times, Cosmo results are quite decent. And yes, there are tough times. And I mean these are some cycles which everyone has to go through. I mean even in these bad times, we have double-digit EBITDA quite a decent return on capital employed, so the differentiation we have been able to create in the business.

The next question is from the line of [ Vipul Kumar Shah ] from Sumangal Investment.

Sir, can you break the sales in tonnage for commodity, semi-specialty and specialty because you give your capacity in tonnage, but in presentation, sales is mentioned in rupees only. So is it possible?

This is something we never share.

For competitive reasons?

Yes.

Okay. And sir, what percentage of our power comes from renewable sources right now and where we see it 2 to 3 years down the line?

See, within next 6 months, close to 40% to 50% of our power will be from renewables, more towards 50%.

And what type of impact it will have on the P&L?

See, some impact has already come and some impact will come in the near future. So again, from a disclosure perspective, we'd like to stay away to share too much information about this. But certainly, it has had good positive impact on our P&L. And you will see more of this from next quarter.

And sir, you mentioned that BOPET is facing glut these days. And the BOPP market is relatively protected. So is it possible to break down our shares between BOPET and BOPP? Or that also you would not like to give for competitive reasons?

That could be a good suggestion, we'll certainly consider that.

Sorry, sir?

That's a good suggestion. Maybe we'll look at this from the next quarterly financial presentation.

Any ballpark figure you can share now?

I will not remember off the cuff. We will certainly like to include this from the next quarter.

And sir, this INR 450 crores expansions that is for BOPET and BOPP line combined, right, sir?

It's BOPP and CPP line.

Okay. So BOPET is completed, right?

Yes. BOPET is completed. It's actually 4 assets. It's BOPP, it's CPP, metallizer and PET sheet line. All 4 put together, that is the CapEx we have committed.

And out of INR 450 crores, how much we have spent till date?

It's still over and above that we have already spent.

Sorry? Would you come again, sir, please?

This is already over -- this is over and above already that we have spent. So some money has already been spent till date, which has been excluded. It is over and above this.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Amit Agarwal ], an individual investor.

This is regarding Zigly. Sir, some stores are more than 1 year old. Can you give us what is the same-store Y-o-Y sales growth?

It is growing at a quite a good pace from a percentage perspective. But given that numbers are still small, we would not like to boast of it. I mean last when we had looked at last year, we had a 9x growth from the year thereafter, and this year itself will have a very substantial growth. But given that numbers are so small, that there's no point in terms of talking about growth.

I'm talking about same-store sales.

Yes. I mean we are continuously opening new stores, right? So it's very difficult to share numbers like that. But overall, if you would have seen quarter-on-quarter, we are showing growth. And what we are saying is that we will -- after opening 23 stores, we will give it a pause of roughly 3, 4 months to see that whatever we are doing is it done nicely, are there areas for improvement and then we'll again restart the next phase of growth from April of next year. As of last quarter, we have started to touch INR 4 crore GMV.

Okay. And my next question is like oil prices are falling again for last 15 -- for last 1 month. So should we consider this as a negative news?

Sorry?

Because raw material gets cheaper?

Lower raw material is always good for the industry. It may have a short-term negative impact because when the raw material comes down, at that time, the customer sentiments -- or everybody want to defer the purchase. But lower raw material in general is very positive. Once it stabilizes at a certain level, it's very positive for the industry because the working capital comes down and there are a lot of other hidden benefits.

Okay. And my last question is, if I'm allowed to ask, because I was late in joining the call, how much investment is done for rigid packaging?

How much what?

Investments going to be made in the rigid packaging boxes?

See, that also -- right now, we have done close to INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores investment, but this will -- investment will continue to grow as we start to earn revenues and profits out of this. But the initial investment is somewhere around INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores.

Is it already done? Or is it going to be done in phases?

A large part of this is done. As I said earlier that we are going ahead with another polyester sheet line, which is under progress. That would happen in quarter 4.

The next question is from the line of Neeraj Sharda from Solan Capital Management.

Am I audible?

Yes.

Sorry, pardon me, if I repeat the question, I joined a bit late, but I had a couple of questions. I just wanted to ask that if you look at the competitive landscape in which you operate, most of the other players, they have a backward integration in terms of the resin plant, and I don't see that with you. Is there a specific reason that is there that you don't have a backward integration? What's your thoughts on this?

See, backward integration is a very large project when it comes to this. At this stage, we don't feel we are ready for this.

But since most of the other people have it, do you think that it adds substantially to the bottom line aspects and insulated from raw material input costs?

Globally, we are one of the players which have maximum backward integration when it comes to backward integration of coating chemicals and master batches. But otherwise, I mean, there are only 1 or 2 players in the world who also have the polypropylene resin being made. Those are very big projects. I mean 1, 2 maybe less, maybe 4, 5 players will be there globally. But doing a backward integration of polypropylene is a very large project. At least in India, nobody done it till now.

Okay. My next question is that over the last couple of years, there has been a projection of moving into 80% specialty chemicals, but the target seems to be moving ahead as we go forward. Is there a specific challenge that you're facing to reach a level of 80% specialty chemicals?

Not really. It takes its own time, and we are working towards it. We did face a headwind in between. Then last year, we realized that everybody had overstocked. And therefore, a lot of inventory corrections happened and then inflation happened in Europe causing the demand to come down, but those factors have normalized now more or less. So we are again seeing a revival of the growth when it comes to specialty products.

So the current target that you have given 2025 is achievable for 80% specialty business? Am I correct in understanding that?

Yes. Initially, the target, yes, was FY '25. And we feel that we should be -- by end of '25, we should be able to touch those numbers. Though obviously, this last 8, 9 months have really given us a jolt because by now, we should have had started touching 70-plus percentage, and we are still at 65%. But now we are seeing traction, a lot of traction. And hopefully, things should be back on track in terms of our growth targets.

The next question is from the line of Harsh Sheth from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on good numbers. So I just wanted to get some understanding on Sunshield films that you launched last quarter. If you could help us understand what kind of response are we getting and what could be the revenue potential. Additionally, if you could throw some light on our innovation portfolio and pipeline?

We have multiple products getting launched and obviously, we've also launched new business lines. So a lot is happening in the company. When I talk about film products, we continue to add new range to our synthetic paper. There's a TeploR film that we had launched first time in the world. Then we have launched susceptor films. We have launched lidding films. There is a lot that we continued to launch. There is shrink film that we had launched, the window film that was launched. So there's a whole range of products being launched, and they are in different phases of its growth. And similarly now we have new businesses, which is capacitor films and rigid packaging, Zigly, Cosmo Specialty Chemicals. Within Cosmo Specialty Chemical also, the packaging adhesive and lamination adhesive has stabilized, but there also we have come up with just the vanilla products. There itself, we'll have to have a much more detailed range. And as the time progresses, we'll continue to invest in research and development and launch bigger range of adhesives.

Glad to hear that. But sir, if you could put some numbers to that, what could be potential size? Who are the competitors here? Are we the only ones? And what could be the potential in general over the next 2, 3, 4 years?

See, the potential of each of the product -- our product line is pretty large. Obviously, what we are right now targeting is to take our specialty from 65% to 80%. That is the initial internal target that we've taken. But from a potential perspective, right now in synthetic paper, we would hardly be 5% or less than 5% of the global market. So there's a huge potential there. Shrink film, we have just started. It's 150,000 tonnes plus market. Similarly, window films is a couple of billion dollars market. So a lot of these markets are fairly big. And we've just entered, and some of the areas there where we are the first ones, like TeploR is a film where we are the first player in the world. Lidding film, again, very few players in the world do the entire set of end-to-end production on lidding. I would say the biggest competitor there is Dupont. So these are some very innovative products and they will take its own time in terms of development and growth.

Right. So these products have good export potential as well. And how does that look on margin front, I mean, vis-a-vis domestic markets?

Again, all of them have different margins, very difficult to generalize anything.

The next question is from the line of Neeraj Sharda from Solan Capital.

I just wanted to ask, even when we look at the competitive landscape, most of the players in India, they have plants all across the world, whereas Cosmos doesn't. So is there a specific strategy to not go beyond? What's the thought on that? And the second is on the debt equity levels. Even if you compare the landscape, debt equity level of Cosmos is on the higher side. Do you have a specific target in the next couple of years, you want to bring it down to a certain level?

Yes. See, as far as debt to EBITDA is concerned, within our industry, 4:1 debt-to-EBITDA ratio is considered very strong, while we continue to hover at 1.7 level. So we are sitting at a very comfortable position. What is your second question, sorry?

Regarding that other competitors in India, they have plants all across the globe, whereas Cosmo mostly is concentrated in India in terms of production capacity. So is there a specific reason for that?

See, one is we are able to better manage costs if we are situated in one region. And secondly, we're very close to the port area. And for us, exports is a very important market, unlike many other competitors. Almost all our competitors are dependent on the local market, while we are always looking more at the export markets. So for us, the export market -- the Western part of the country really serves us well.

So do you think that people situated with their plants in other parts of the world, they are not going to be more competitive than you in terms of serving their customers?

Yes. When it comes to export, definitely being in the West helps. It's quite obvious.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today's conference. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

So to conclude, we think near to medium-term outlook for the BOPP and BOPET film may remain challenging. The company, although strong, specialty film portfolio shall continue to help during this period, which in any case we are further expanding. We are working on several core specializations and R&D projects, which obviously would help in the coming quarters. In the last, I would like to repeat the statutory declaration. Certain statements in this con call may be forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. These statements are not guarantees of future results. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone, for joining.

Thank you. On behalf of Cosmo First Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.