CrowdStrike Holdings, Inc. (CRWD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Good afternoon. Thank you very much for joining us for another great session. This time, we're focusing on one of the fastest-growing companies in my space, CrowdStrike. And with us, we have the CEO and Co-Founder, President, George Kurtz; and we also have the CFO, Burt Podbere. And I would like to, first of all, welcome you, and thank you for joining us.

And second, I want to start with a simple but a complicated question. Why are you more successful than most other competitors? What is the differentiation that you bring to the market? Remember, we always start our calls from a top down, so we're going to start with a high-level question and then drill down.

All right. Great. So thanks, and thanks for having us here. I think it's a pretty simple answer, and it really comes to the fact that we spent the time and effort to build our platform out. And when you look across this market, there really hasn't been a cloud-first platform company in security, and I think that's really what the market has been missing. When we think about Salesforce, CRM cloud, when we think about ServiceNow and ITSM cloud, when we think about work in HR cloud, there really hasn't been a security cloud. And a big part of our success has been the fact that we've had the patience, and we had the investors came in that allowed us to be patient as a private company to be able to build this platform out, where we can collect data onetime. We can then reuse that data many times. And with a friction-free model of deployment with our agent, with our threat graph and with our module framework allows us to immediately add value to our customers, and in fact, replace many of the existing technologies they have. So it becomes a very strategic sell for us. It's not a point product or an AV product. It really is a cloud-based endpoint platform, and we're really defining the security cloud. So I think that's a big part of our success, is the fact that it's a platform that works. It delivers value. And one of the most important things that we focused on early on, obviously, it's a big part of what we do today, but we've added adjacencies, is getting the right outcome for customers. My background, I had -- I was in the vulnerability management space, had a company called Foundstone. I sold it to Mac. We spent 7 years there. And whether it was Mac or Symantec or anyone else, people were buying lots of AV, and they were buying lots of firewalls. But I didn't believe they were getting the outcome that they wanted, which was not to be breached. And if you think about every breach you've ever read about or heard about, they have 2 things in common. They had AV and they have firewalls, and they weren't stopping the breach. So we focused on stopping the breach, and we also focused on having a very contemporary architecture. And in 2011, I can tell you that was not a fashionable thing to do, but it has paid dividends for us today as you see.

Got it. Discuss the reasons why would a company -- because I'm going to use an old term, antivirus. Antivirus market has existed for many, many years. We have seen very few changes in the market. The market was stagnant for many years. I remember once, a CIO of a big firm told me that in the previous 5 years, you hadn't had the need to rebuild a single machine because it blocks off everything. It blocks off Facebook and Snapchat, et cetera. So there's just no risk coming to the network to the endpoint. But we've seen clear change. Even those that were conservative before are changing now. So the question is, what drives them? What drives the need to suddenly go back to a market that existed for 20 years and make the change now versus before?

Well, if you look at that market -- and that's just one of our 11 modules, right? So we do a lot more than that. But if you look at just that market, again, I believe that they were solving the wrong problem, right? And let me just put it into context. And I asked CIOs and chief security officers this all the time. So stack rank for me what's most important in order: is it stopping breaches or is it stopping malware? And when I think about it, I've never had anyone come back and say stopping malware, right? It's stopping the breach. So why was it that every company in the antivirus space was totally focused on stopping malware? They weren't thinking about stopping the breach, and there's more to it. Half of the attacks don't even use malware. So we built a system that provides visibility, prevention and control across all workloads and allows us to get the outcomes they're looking for, which is to stop the breach, particularly in the antivirus space. Customers are also not looking for signature updates. They couldn't keep up with the volume of threats. And if you think about your comment a few years back and that -- the person who talked about not having an issue for 5 years, I mean today's environment is vastly different just from 6 months ago, enterprise ransomware. Yesterday, I was on CNBC, I was talking to Cramer about the fact that there are ransomware groups that actually have a rev share model. I mean that's how organized they are. They'll actually give you their platform, and they take a 20% cut on your success. So that's much different than just a short time ago. And the current suite of technologies are not capable of keeping up with it. And the reality is the firewall is nothing more than a policy enforcement mechanism, and it's not going to stop a lot of these advanced attacks, right? The endpoint has really become the new firewall, and that's even more important now in a remote work-from-home environment.

So when you address new opportunities with customers -- I want to start with a question that normally I put at the end, but here, it's more important. Discuss the competitive landscape. How -- what do you normally -- who do you normally compete with? Or what kind of solution do you normally compete with?

Well, if you look at just endpoints, let me make a -- I'll answer your question, but I do want to make a distinction between endpoints and workloads, right? So we get lumped in the endpoint market. I think that's actually pretty limiting because to me, an endpoint is a desktop and a server, right? That's 2009. 2020, I think about next-gen workload protection. And that really is about cloud workloads, ephemeral workloads, containers, IoT devices, mobile devices, data centers. So you have to bifurcate those. But if you're looking at just traditional "endpoints", of course, we're going to run into the incumbents, the McAfee, the Symantec trends, lower down the market, the Sophos, Kasperskys, et cetera. So somebody is going to be there from just a "AV" perspective. Not a lot of those companies have really robust EDR offerings or other modules, but just AV, we're going to see them. If you look at some of the next-gen players, we've seen Carbon Black. We've seen Cylance. We've seen host of players that are out there. Obviously, Microsoft is in this environment. I wouldn't categorize them as a next-gen player by any stretch because they still really focused on signature-based detection prevention. But those are the likely suspects that we see in the market. And I think, obviously, there's players in it. But as you've seen over the last year, lots of them have been -- being cleared out, being acquired because it looks -- it's playing out, in my view, a little bit like Salesforce and Siebel. The clear leader became Salesforce, and the other players began to fade away, including the incumbents like the Siebel.

You spoke about workloads. VMware made an evolution in the space. Do you see them more aggressive now?

I don't know if they're more aggressive or not. We certainly see them in the marketplace. I think given our success and what we've been able to put on the scoreboard, I mean, I think it clearly shows what we've been able to do versus what they've been able to do. And it's a big market, right? So they're certainly going to win some, and we're going to win some as well, probably more than not. But at the end of the day, customers are really looking for a solution that encompasses a broad platform and started from the cloud. And we started -- we pioneered cloud-delivered endpoint security in 2011. A lot of the technologies that VMware acquired or from Carbon Black came later on with acquisitions that were fairly immature, particularly around the cloud offerings.

Got it. The -- when we talk to legacy players, they say we're cloud, too. We transitioned to cloud. When we talk to next-generation players, they were -- according to them, they were born in the cloud. Still, 2 years after, we thought that there is a clear group of new and old kind of player next gen and old gen. Two years after, the next gen disappeared, the old gen is losing share. What's happening in the market? Why don't you see stronger competition from even newer companies that had the opportunity to rewrite their software?

Well, first, I'll say it's tough to be a customer and an investor because it all sounds the same. It's pretty easy to copy somebody's website, say the cloud, right? But let's unpack that for a bit. So let's take the legacy players for a moment. I'm going to go back to Siebel. Siebel had a cloud version. How'd that work out? Right? If you have an on-premise version, it's very difficult to transition to cloud because essentially what you do is you try to package your on-premise version. You put it on Amazon and call it cloud. That's not going to work. You have to be built from the ground up, all microservice architecture, all API-driven. And you know what, we don't offer an on-premise technology. And the biggest telltale sign that I would reference is the fact if you go to our competitors and they have an on-premise technology, they're not cloud native. They're just not. They took what they had, and they packaged it up in Amazon or cloud -- another cloud provider, what have you, and they call it cloud. There's a difference between being cloud-native and cloud-delivered, right? You can have a cloud-delivered offering with a management console in the cloud, but basically, you're keeping all the data on the endpoints, right? Part of the secret sauce of the fact that we've got smart filtering technology that allows us to dynamically figure out what to take up to the cloud, there's always a baseline, but we can open and close that aperture. And that basically increase the performance on the endpoint. There really is no performance impact. It doesn't overburden the network, and it certainly allows us to increase our margins. And most of our competitors, if you look at it, they keep all the data resident on the endpoint. In fact, something like Carbon Black uses osquery to actually clear the endpoint because that's where all the data is. So it's just a different architecture. I mean it all sounds the same. I mean it's like one person has a car, the other person has a car. Well, it's both a car. But when you get down to it, different performance, characteristics, different engines, et cetera. And that's really what we've seen, and that's really what customers have seen, and I think the market has spoken in terms of what we're able to do versus the competition.

Got it. Burt, a question for you. You discussed -- George just discussed 11 modules. What are the key modules? What are the modules that are growing and what are the modules that are yet to develop a potential?

Sure, Tal. So first, we like to call them the big 3. The 3 modules that the majority of our customers have are prevention, detection and managed hunting, our OverWatch group. So those are the big 3. And those are the ones that, again, the majority of our customers have. And those continue to grow, and those continue to become more and more of the staple of security for our customers. What we were able to tell folks on our earnings call was that our fourth module, what we call discovery, which is in the IT ops area of security -- or it's actually beyond security, it's IT ops. That one has grown significantly to the point where 45% of our customer base has that particular module. And that's been -- that's a tipping point for us. We've been building that for 2 years. It adds real-time response. It's able to spot rogue systems, asset management in general, privileged access. It does a lot of things that we didn't even realize we could do. It was our customers that told us that we had the data, and we should do that, and we were able to do that. So we entered into that IT ops area, which has been really significant for us in terms of its growth. And then we got a variety of other modules, which have been gaining traction, for example, vulnerability management. George started his security career and founded a company called Foundstone, which was in that space, and that's been gaining traction, as well as something that we call Falcon X, which is our intelligence. It's coupled with some sandboxing and malware clearing, which is very, very additive to the portfolio and to what customers want to see and how they leverage the entire platform to do what George had really talked about in terms of the outcome, which is about the breach.

And you sell your products in buckets. Can you talk about the price difference? And then what's the experience in being able to upsell to customers? They start with the basics or somewhere in the middle and then they go up?

Yes. So one stat that we give out is we give out the stat of how many of our customers have what percentage of the modules. And you've seen that climb over time. So we gave up the stat of how many of our customers have 4 modules, which is 55%. And then how many of our customers have 5 or more, it's over 35%. And that gives you a clue as to how customers are thinking about purchasing from us. It goes to -- it talks to not only new customers, but it talks to already our installed base. So new customers, who would come in, then we sell the value. And we show customers that if they go with us, they can consolidate a bunch of their security systems that they have and are able to save money. And that's really important in terms of, "Hey, am I getting the right benefit, which is to stop the breach? And am I able to do it in a cost-effective way and we're able to produce?" For the customers that we already have, as we continue to offer new technologies, they're able to easily and seamlessly be able to augment their security stack with us by click of a button. We have in-app trials and they're able to press a button, and lo and behold, they have a new screen that tells them this new -- whatever it is they're looking for in a very easy-to-look-at dashboard. So it's been really, really helpful for our customers when they think about continuing to put more and more of their trust within us, and we've seen that stat augment over the quarters because we're able to show customers more and more value and more and more functionality.

Got it. So if I think about your growth, there are kind of 3 ways to grow. You can get a new customer. You can increase the number of licenses per customer, or you can sell more modules to customers. Can you think -- can you kind of categorize for us what's more important in your numbers, what's less important in your numbers? Where do you find faster growth than others? Is it gaining the customer? Or is it growing within the customer? Or is it upselling the customer to the customer?

Yes, Tal, that's a great question. And for us, first, let's just look at last quarter. It was a great quarter for us for both new logos. It's our second largest quarter ever, and expansions were strong, too. So as we think about why has the new logo been very good for us, and we believe it's the 3 things. One, it's the competitive environment. George talked about that. We've seen opportunity with some of the legacy players. Two, it's the ease in which we deploy. George, when he founded the company, he said, "Look, we got to have a great tech, but we got to make it really easy for customers to deploy and have value right out of the gate," and our time to value on our deployment is immediate. And then third, security is mission-critical, and endpoint or workload security is critical to protect a remote or hybrid workforce. So that over -- that is the overarching kind of way that we see how we think about protecting our customers. And so from our standpoint, we think about going after both with equal fervor with respect to new customers or expansion. And for us, we see a lot of headroom in both. Today, we have just over 6,000 customers. That's really small compared to some of the incumbents out there, so we have a lot of opportunity to go after new logo. And at the same time, we've got a real opportunity for cross-sell and upsell, and we encourage and we incent our sales team to go after both because the key for us is net new ARR, and we feel that we have opportunity in both areas to go after both new logos and expansion.

Got it. Drilling deeper into your portfolio question to both of you, some of your newer efforts include mobile market, firewall management and also cloud application protection. Can you elaborate on these areas?

Sure. I'll start with the mobile piece. That's something that we're working on for several years, and we really had some nice wins last quarter, some big school districts, hundreds of thousands of these mobile devices at a time. As you might imagine, not everyone could procure a laptop for students, and they get expensive. And it's fairly inexpensive to procure an Android device, as an example. So what we developed there is really the first EDR for mobile, and it's not a mobile -- it's not an MDM-type service, set of management type service. And we're able to wrap the application. A lot of what people care about is like these critical company apps, what are they doing and where are they going and where are they sending data to. And that's been very well received. So still in the early innings there because people are just getting their head around mobile threats. But visibility might even be more important than mobile threats because a lot of the mobile devices are fairly well locked down. So that's one piece of it. I think when you look across the cloud, we put a lot of effort into our cloud run time protection, and half of our customers use the cloud. If you look at -- or over 6,000, half of them are running somewhere in the cloud, and that's a big focus for us, and we've really added a lot of capabilities there. We've spent a lot of time with AWS in their marketplace, and we bake it in for easy deployment and billing. So that, I think, was very well received. And overall, some of these other modules like firewall module was well received, too. And that was, I would say, a bit of a blocker because that was still part of a legacy suite. So we came out with the firewall module, which wasn't all that hard to do, and that removes a blocker from a legacy suite that's there and makes it super easy to manage these. When we say firewall module, that's managing the host-based firewall, right? And we manage with whatever's there by the operating system. We don't build our own. It's more of a management layer, and customers really like that. So -- and the thing that I would say is because we took the time and effort to build a platform, we're able to rapidly build new modules. Some of the new modules only take 3 months because it's more of assembling. Like we -- the hard part, if you were to start a company and try to replicate what we do, you'd have to build the agent, you'd have to build the cloud architecture. You have to collect the data, you have to build a data store, you have to build the workflow. That's done already. So we just need to build the workflow on the data we already collected. That's the beauty of the modular framework.

How -- Burt, simple question for those that get to know you. How do you charge? What's your pricing model? How does it work?

Yes. So we charge -- we price per endpoint per module per year. So that's how our model is running. But we do have bundles. And obviously, the pricing will vary on the number of endpoints that you purchase. That's how we think about our pricing.

And do you have any stats on average price per user or average price per license, how it evolves over the last few years, meaning more...

Yes. Tal, it's very tough to kind of zoom in on anything like that because we sell to everybody. We sell from companies that have 5 people up to 1 million plus. And so it's very hard to stratify what those -- as a group even within the groups to be able to figure out what that is on a per customer basis. So we tend to just look at specific segments and look at it that way. It gives us more information. But we don't disclose that, and it -- because there's a lot of variability in those numbers.

Got it. I want to ask a few more product questions before I get to kind of higher level again. The cloud, the cloud workload. Can you discuss why an endpoint vendor like yourself is suitable to offer cloud -- workload protection? And what exactly do you offer there? What makes you better than others in this particular area?

Well, we fancy ourselves, as I said, as next-gen workload protection, right, because I think just endpoint is too limiting. And why are we perfect for that environment? Well, we were born in the cloud, for the cloud and everything else. So it's just so easy to deploy. And the technology -- in the cloud environment, you've got to be able to deploy it easily without any friction. You can't give them away. The developer has got to be up and running. Customers love the fact that they can protect these cloud workloads, monitor and manage them as easily as they can their on-premise technologies in one console. That's a real value add. There's no -- if you think about a legacy vendor, there's no other servers to set up a configuration. You just roll out the agent and go. So that's a huge difference between us and what you would consider a traditional legacy endpoint vendor. In terms of the way we operate, we basically operate at the OS level. So whether it's containers or whether it's a cloud workload, it's very easy to use because we were able to have that visibility deep into the operating system. And even in virtual instances, we can -- like containers, we can keep track of all the containers that are running. We provide good run time protection, visibility in those containers, which is really hard to find. So I think, again, why do people buy us? It works. It's easy to use, easy to deploy, very cost effective. And they love the fact that it's one console, whether it's on-prem, hybrid, private cloud. And that's different than a lot of other players out there. We don't have to run, as an example, let's say, containers. And we don't have to have an agent on every container, which our competitors do. We can actually run at the operating system level and do introspection into all the containers. So that takes a lot of the friction away from the deployment model with developers in terms of putting yet another agent into every container.

And how big is this area of cloud workloads or virtual machine? How big is it of your revenues? Or if it's not -- if it's new and -- too new and not big now, how long does it take this market to develop?

Well, we don't break that out specifically, but what I can tell you is half of our 6,000-plus customers actually have some cloud workload protected by CrowdStrike, which is huge, right? So that could be 2 workloads or that could be a million. I mean it depends, right? But we've been working at this for some time. We were born in the cloud, and we have a lot of customers. And we have one financial services customer that I know, off the top of my head. They have 80,000 workloads, probably 100,000 now in the cloud. And they still have a huge on-premise environment, right? But they're transitioning everything over. We're very effective in Linux. We have one of the most robust Linux offerings. We have one of the most robust Linux coverage because you quite -- you imagine there's 100 different versions of Linux, right? That are out there. So we support all the major ones. And that's been, I think, a key driver for us as well. It just generally doesn't matter what they're running. Generally, we support it. And now with digital transformation, when we think about -- work from home is, again, I think, a subset of digital transformation. And as people migrate to the cloud because they want to go cloud direct, all those workloads are going to need to be protected. And typically, they're only protected with VPCs. They're not really protected at runtime. So that whole cloud workload environment represents really greenfield opportunity. It's not like we're displacing anybody over there because it's mostly unprotected just from a workload perspective.

Got it. I have 2 questions from the audience I would like to run by you. First one was, what are the privacy risks for a customer if the agents are processing all the data and sending it to the cloud?

Well, we have an intelligent agent. So again, that's part of the secret sauce. So we have a mini graph on each workload, and then we have a massive graph in the cloud, which we call the Threat Graph. And what we're sending out is telemetry information. So as you might imagine, we've gone very deep on privacy as a cloud vendor, as you might imagine for any cloud vendor, a Salesforce, Workday, ServiceNow. I mean that is part and parcel to our DNA, is the privacy piece. We're very transparent in what we have. We work all across Europe. We've got some of the largest customers in Germany that we've worked with, which is the most privacy-centric region. We have some of the largest Swiss banks. And it's basically security telemetry. It's equivalent to what the Tesla is doing, not where the passenger is driving, right? So that security threat data is -- give us an idea of what's happening from the threat landscape but doesn't put the privacy of the user at risk.

Got it. Second question, I'm going to expand a little bit on the question. The question was for most of the vendors in the market, vendors of networking equipment, networking security equipment, also have an endpoint. And they say that the value is if you take the information from the endpoint and you combine it with information from the firewall and from the intrusion detection and you're on filtering, you get a better protection, better system altogether. And the question is, how do you see yourself versus those that are -- Cisco has an endpoint, Palo Alto, Fortinet, you name it. Almost every networking -- network security company has an agent or an endpoint solution. So how do you see yourself? And what are the areas where customers choose you and maybe areas where customers choose the other way because of the benefits that they're highlighting?

Well, sure, I think you have to start from the top of network and endpoint together. And you see a lot of vendors try to go in that area. And typically, it doesn't end well because it's 2 different selling motions. And we've seen that -- saw it at McAfee. We've seen it in other places. We've seen some of the cloud, some of the public firewall vendors that have added the stumble over the quarters because they didn't have their sales model right. So from our perspective, I think what we wanted to focus on was endpoint. We believe it's a huge market. And at the end of the day, if you just think about it, the destination of an attack is an endpoint or a workload, right? It's not the network. The network is a highway that people are driving on to get to the home or business to go rob. So we did the hardest part. And the reason why a lot of network vendors were big years ago into IPS and sandboxing and things of that nature was it was too hard to do on the endpoint, right? We sort of figured that out with our architecture. And when you think about the data on the endpoint, it's 10x or more richer than what you see on the network. A lot of the network data is net flow, ports and protocols, and it's very difficult to crack open the encrypted code. So we can tell you exactly what's happening on the endpoint as opposed to just the metadata from a network perspective. So there's a lot of value in that. And then our customers, if they want to enrich it with network telemetry, I mean we work really well with Zscaler, which, again, is a best-of-breed cloud networking company. And our customers can assemble best-of-breed platform, which we think is ultimately going to win. You take us, you take a Zscaler, you take an Okta, best-of-breed platforms, you put them all together. And if you want network data and you have traditional firewalls, people -- Splunk is a big customer and they're a big partner as well. They put that data in the Splunk and they can enrich it with anything else, but they're really looking to instrument the endpoint because that's where really all this rich telemetry comes from.

Got it. I want to -- I got another question from the audience and someone is asking, what do you think -- when you look at the number of modules you have, did you get more or less to your target number? And from here, it's more penetration with existing modules? Or do you envision a long runway with adding more and more modules to your platform?

I think there's a long runway. I get that question all the time, and my answer is, I have no idea how many modules we can come out with it. I mean I think the sky's the limit. You look at what we built, obviously, we're core. We started in security. We added IT ops, which we talked about on the call, really helping the IT organizations with use cases outside security. And that was a real tipping point this quarter. And then you look at threat intelligence, right? Those are 3 core areas, and we've got modules in each one of them, multiple modules. And then we added the CrowdStrike Store probably 2 years back. And we're the only endpoint player that has a store like that. And why? Because the platform is there, right? We built the architecture to build our own modules, and we've exposed that to other third-party ISPs. And they can build modules in workflows that we don't build. Maybe we don't have expertise in an area like micro segmentation, right? But we have all the plumbing to do that. They can build workflows in those areas. And that's a real win for a customer because we consolidate agents, right? We consolidate the spend and the complexity, and they don't have to roll out yet another agent. So I always like to say we have that very valuable beachfront real estate, which is on the endpoint, and we want to make it easy for our customers and partners to be able to leverage the data and the architecture we've already created for them.

Got it. We only have 2 minutes left, so I'm going to finish with 2 questions. The first one is IoT security. What's the implications? What are the implications for your business and the fact that many IoT devices do not have a way to have an agent?

Well, yes, I would -- I mean I would maybe take a counterpoint to that. And I think when you look at 5G and you look at these IoT devices, I think when you really dig down into it, there are some flavor of Linux, and there's some flavor of Windows. And that's what we run on, right? Our agent has tightened 35 megs, can easily run on an IoT device. And with 5G, you're going to just see an explosion there. So I can't even contemplate how many devices you're going to be out there, but you got to get in early on the cycle, right? So that you can build them in before they're shipped. And those are things that we're working on with various partners, being on the front end and having it built in. What better area than to have a cloud-based architecture? Because wherever that IoT device is at the edge, right? It's going to be all about edge computing. You're going to want to have protection. You want to have it connected to the cloud. So I think there's a big opportunity for us. Some of the existing devices out there, not necessarily, you can't always get on because they're already baked and shipped. But I think in the future, being part of the build process would be important.

Great. So my last question is the sub du jour COVID-19. Just trying to understand, do you have any way to know if demand part of the growth is related to temporary drivers? Traffic is spiking, people are working from home. There is sudden demand -- temporary demand for more licenses. Do you have a way to understand what's temporary and what's longer term? Or what's your view on it?

Well, I would say, let's start at the top in terms of the drivers and the tailwinds, right? So when we think about work from home, I think about it a little bit differently. I think about work from anywhere, and I think there's going to be a hybrid model. Not everybody is going to go back to the office. I think everyone looks at this and say, "Man, we can save a lot of money, and we were still productive, and we'll have a hybrid model." It won't be everybody in the office. It won't necessarily be everybody at home. It will be a hybrid. But I do think less people will be in the office. So I think that's a long-term trend start there. Two, then work from home is really part of a digital transformation. And I've said this to a number of folks that -- in our customer calls are 100 by 100, where we're talking to customers. I talked to a CIO, and so tell me about your digital transformation road map. And he said, "Oh, it was a 2-year road map. We executed one night in March." I mean that gives you an idea. So people are accelerating their digital transformation, which is a multi, multiyear journey, and I think work from anywhere is just as a component of that. So when we look at what happened with COVID, we actually had some free programs that we allowed people to burst, and they're still running through June. We haven't even converted those. So we look at it as a much more sustainable tailwind of people working from anywhere in digital transformation as opposed to a onetime pop that happened in Q1 specific to COVID.

Got it. Unfortunately, our speed dating is over. We are 2 minutes over time. And I want to thank you very much, Burt and George, for joining our call today. As always, to the investors, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to send us. And if I don't know the answer, I always -- can always get the help of Burt to help me understanding it. Thank you so much, and have a great day.

Okay. Thanks, Tal.

Thank you.