CSB Bank Limited (CSBBANK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I am Bharti, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to CSB Bank Q4 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Praveen Agarwal. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

Thank you, Bharti. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to this earnings call of CSB Bank. We have with us Mr. CVR Rajendran, MD and CEO; Mr. Pralay Mondal, President, Retail, SME Operations and IT; Mr. B.K. Divakara, the CFO; and Mr. Ganesan V., who is the Head of Credit Monitoring and Recovery. I would request Mr. Rajendran to take us through the brief of the result. Post which, we'll open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, Mr. Rajendran.

Thank you, Mr. Praveen. Good evening, everyone, and hope you're all safe. Thank you for joining us today. We are in a situation where COVID 2 is passing a cloud of uncertainties on the economic development. However, with the large vaccination drive, governmental support, foreign aids and accommodative stance of the regulator, let us continue with our optimism. At CSB, I would say we were able to counter the pandemic impact with a clear focus, prompt response to regulatory prescriptions, both traditional and nontraditional, clear business continuity plan, digital push, technology support, strong processes, and above all, the dedication of our staff. At this point, let me appreciate the struggle put forth by all the COVID warriors in the field of health, police, defense, et cetera, who are serving the people by risking their lives. As bankers, we also take pride in the role that we played to support the people and the economy during this difficult situation. So let us see the bank's specific aspects, in this centenary year, I feel that we paid a befitting tribute to our organization by mark of overall improvement in top line, bottom line, asset quality, branch expansion and capital comfort. As far as the top line growth is concerned, we had a decent financial year closing in terms of overall business numbers, where the banking industry has a whole cloaked a growth of approximately 12% in deposits and 6% in advances, we could register an overall year-on-year business growth of 24%, where deposits grew by 21% and advances by 27%. Current deposits have crossed INR 1,000 crores mark, growing at 61% year-on-year. Savings deposits have grown by INR 1,100 crores or by 29% year-on-year. Our overall CASA has grown by 33% and mix has improved to 32% from 29% year-on-year. Total deposits have grown by INR 3,350 crores, that's by 21%. Net advances have grown by INR 3,072 crores, by 27%. Gold loans have grown by INR 2,331 crores, that is 61.35% year-on-year. 76% of advances growth is contributed by growth in gold loans. Agri and MFI vertical business crossed INR 500 crores during the current year. Two-wheeler business grew by 120% to reach almost INR 200 crores of our book size. Priority sector advances have surged by 45%. Non-fund business grew by approximately 80%. Total business has grown by INR 6,421 crores, that is 24% year-on-year. Thus in the centenary year, the bank has growth 1/4 of the total business it grew in 99 years. CRISIL reaffirmed the highest rating on short-term deposits and CD. CD issuance and refinance availment helped us to reduce the overall CASA fund. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, total deposits grew by 8% and advances by 10%. CASA ratio improved from 30.38% as on 31/12/2020 to 32.19%. That's an improvement of 1.81%. Now coming to bottom line. I feel pride in announcing that we crossed the double century mark in terms of net profit for the current year, the net profit being INR 218 crores for the current year, which is supported by improved net interest income, treasury profits and other income. This could be achieved despite the increase in OpEx on account of AS 15 provisions, VRS, et cetera, change in the depreciation policy and opening of 101 branches. The practice of accelerated NPA provisioning and standard asset provisioning on account of COVID was maintained during the Q4 as well. Net interest income has grown by INR 349 crores or by 59%, contributed by reduction in cost of deposits, increase in yield on advances and investments and increase in business volumes. NIM for the year ended improved from 3.74% to 4.81%, that is by 107 basis points. Treasury profits have improved substantially over previous year to INR 125 crores, as bank made full use of the yield swings to its advantage, apart from making substantial investments in non-SLR securities at attractive rates, availing LTRO and TLTRO. Non-treasury other income grew by INR 84 crores or by 44%, contributed by increase in processing fees, PSLC commission, bancassurance commission and [indiscernible] commission. There was an increase in headcount by 976. And this, together with the increase in AS 15 provisions, as cost -- staff costs increased by 50% or INR 165 crores. Pension cost component of AS 15 expenses increased by INR 79 crores, as there were large-scale retirement and VRS totaling to INR 193 crores. And change in assumptions by actuary -- actuarial mortality, the impact is about INR 39 crores. Now define the benefit pension of these account for only 14% of the workforce, down from 24% in the previous year. To the exactly number, which used to be about INR 1,700 crores, has come down to INR 579 crores at the year-end. Other OpEx has increased by INR 29 crores or by 15%, as the bank increased its footprint by 101 more branches. Depreciation expenses has increased by INR 12 crores, mainly on account of change in assumptions as the useful life of some fixed asset category. Operating profit increased by INR 333 crores. It is by 119%, as increase in income far outweighs the increase in expenses. Our cost to income ratio is at 54.31% as against 65.53% as on 31/3/2020. NPA provisions increased by INR 60 crores, due mainly to migration of accounts to higher provision categories and accelerated provisioning over and above RBI guidelines. Standard asset provisions have increased by INR 110 crores, as the bank is holding provisions of around 25% on its stressed assets starting from 1-day default. We're also providing 25% on all the restructured accounts as against a requirement of only 5%. Overall, net profit increased from INR 12.7 crores to INR 218.4 crores. That is by whopping 1,616%. The excess provisions held over and above RBI policy prescriptions amounts to INR 250 crores as on date. On a quarterly basis, our net interest income improved by 10% and other income improved by 90%, with nominal treasury profit. Now let us look at the asset quality. We have reported pro forma NPA of INR 210 crores as on 31/12/2020. The pro forma NPAs have also been appropriately classified as per RBI guidelines, issued following the final judgment of Supreme Court. However, we could contain the total gross additions, including the Q4 slippages, to INR 188 crores. Total recoveries in the return of accounts amounts to INR 75 crores. As you know, we had, as a prudential measure, decided to accelerate the provisions for NPA. During the current financial year, the bank had further increased the NPA provisioning rate considering the prevailing uncertainties. The amount of provision for NPA, including technical write-off created by the bank in excess of the RBI provisioning requirement, is INR 155.86 crores as on March 31, 2021. The COVID-related standard asset provisions in excess of RBI requirements amount to INR 89 crores. As mentioned earlier, we are maintaining a conservative provision of 25% on the entire SMA portfolio, including 1-day default. Bank's overall collection efficiency stands at an average of [indiscernible] till April. Gross NPA decreased year-on-year by INR 16 crores or by 4%. Gross NPA percentage decreased by 86 basis points to 2.68%. Net NPA decreased by INR 48 crores or by 22%, while net NPA percentage fell by 74 basis point to 1.17%. PCR has improved to 85% from 80%; ex technical write-off, it has improved from 47% to 57%. Capital adequacy. The capital position of the bank continued to be strong as on 31st March 2021. Despite significant growth in credit, CRAR could be maintained above 20%. It's 21.37% to be precise, thanks to the plough back of profits and increased standard asset provisions. Leverage ratio also is maintained above 8%, despite significant balance sheet growth, [ banks accreditation ] in Tier 1 capital due to ploughing back of profits. Branch expansion. Despite the challenges posed to be the pandemic, we could achieve a historic milestone of opening 101 branches in this 101st year of bank's existence. Out of these 101 branches, only 9 branches were opened in the home state and 92 branches were opened outside Kerala, predominantly Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Karnataka, Maharashtra and northern parts of the country. Almost 65 branches were opened towards the end of the financial year. The branches were opened in locations with good CASA, gold, agri, MSME potential. We will be able to fully tap the potential of these locations in the current financial year. In the financial year '22, we have plans to open 200 more branches on a pan India basis. Our intention is to frontload the opening of these new branches, get maximum business during the current year by managing the COVID-related lockdowns and restrictions, which are posing some challenges in this direction. Now coming to the digital push. As rightly said, in the midst of every crisis, lies an opportunity. Considering the pandemic condition, moving the customers to online channel was the best option available to the banks. The pronounced digital push yielded good results. And the digital transactions reached almost 78% of the total transaction numbers. We also launched WhatsApp banking during the year. The introduction of online account opening portal could enhance the customer convenience and customer experience, and resulted in better account opening TAT. We are continuously working on improving the channel activations, which are beneficial to the customer as well as the bank on account of reduced transaction costs. I'll stop at this and take some questions. I hope all of you got the investor presentation. I'll take the questions. My colleagues are also there to support me. Thank you, Praveen. Over to you.

[Operator Instructions] First question comes from Mona Khetan from Dolat Capital.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes. So first thing, just wanted to check on growth. So when I look at your segmented growth, I see about 14% sequential growth in corporate advances. So if you could just throw some light as to where that has come from and...

Corporate advance is not our focus area. It is only parking of funds, okay. So most of the corporate advances are given with a 6-month call and put option. So most of them were given originally to NBFCs, with the AA and AAA rating. But due to the surge in liquidity and the reduction in the market-related borrowing, most of the NBFCs have started closing, and we are seeing some negative growth in the wholesale banking. The new accounts are also identified, that is in rating, and mostly from the manufacturing segment. These are all the manufacturing industries with a good potential, which is improved during the COVID period. And they seems to be COVID proof. That kind of industries only we have taken up. For example, we have invested a bit in auto ancillaries booking and some in the food processing, dairy, textiles, spinning. These are the areas where we have invested our money.

Okay. And what would be the average ticket size and the yields in the incremental loans that we are giving out in these segments?

Normally, it is about INR 25 crores, may go up to INR 100 crores at the entry level. And yield should be around 9.5% average. Of course, contractors are also one more major segment, where nonfund base limits are given in a large scheme.

Okay. So the growth that has come about in this quarter is not from the well-rated NBFCs or is that we were doing previously for getting the corporate growth. Is that the right understanding?

They are not AAA rated. Originally when we were not having capital, we were constraint in lending projects. So we had chosen the AAA-rated corporates at a much lower level. Today, AAA-rated corporates are borrowing at 4.5% to 5%, when it's not the rate to lend. So naturally, we have moved to that stable risk. We have given the -- I mean, rating-wise allocation. 52% of our corporates are A and above rated, and almost 30% -- 32% is rated to the investment grade. So 89% of the portfolio is on investment grade and above.

Sure. And what explains a sequential rise in your lending yields. It's up by about 30 bps Q-on-Q, despite the fact that incrementally growth -- a lot of growth has also come from the corporate book, which is at much lower yields than the gold loan, so.

Mainly the growth has come from the gold loan. Gold loans are done at a better level than the remaining portfolio. So naturally, it has a pulling effect on the yield. The proportion of gold loan is more, our yield will move up in the -- as the proportion of gold loan goes down, naturally, our yield will also pull down.

Okay. So could it be the lagged impact because at least this quarter, we are not seeing -- we are seeing a higher growth on corporate book versus the gold book, but could it be the lag...

But on a yearly basis, if you look at it, it is 61% year-on-year, okay? So the last quarter per se, growth is not very big. But the impact comes with a lag effect, right? The interest income comes with the lag effect. So naturally, gold is the main reason for us increasing. Apart from that, we have made -- in the TLTRO, we have availed a substantial amount and invested in the corporate bonds, okay. That also has helped us pull the yield on the treasury side.

Okay. Got it. And the slippages of INR 188 crores that we have reported, that is the net of recovery, right, which you -- where we had slippages in previous quarters from the gold book and so on?

No, recoveries are accounted separately, right? So every time you take in the yields and make a provision, the NPAs as on 31st March and make a provision as per the standard table, the table which I have given. Recoveries accounted separately, right? The numbers are available. INR 75 crores were recovered from the return of accounts. Substantial amount we have recovered on the NPA principal amount. If I remember correct, around INR 65 crores or so. And substantial amount of interest is also corrected from the NPA accounts. That is one reason for the yield going up. The NPA recovery includes the interest recovery which is not accounted earlier. Now it is recovered, that also adds to the interest income and helps us to show a better yield on advances.

Okay. Sir, the reason I was checking this is because if you look at your pro forma slippages of Q3, it was about INR 210 crores, if I'm correct. And if I just add the -- so the slippages of this quarter and the non-pro forma slippages of previous quarter, it adds up to about INR 2,000 crores. So essentially, that way, it will be negative in this quarter, if I'm correct, right?

I don't know where from you're getting the INR 2,000 crores number. My portfolio itself is only INR 14,000 crores. That may be wrong. See pro forma...

Sorry. Sorry. I was mentioning INR 200 crores basically.

Okay. Probably. See, the pro forma NPAs of December consists of INR 125 crores of gold loans, okay? The gold loan NPA in the March has come down to INR 44 crores. That itself has reduced the NPA by INR 80 crores, okay? Apart from that, there are upgradations and recoveries in other accounts also, pro forma accounts. So the overall NPA has come down substantially from the December level to March level. But in spite of that, whatever provision we have created for the COVID provisions which we have created and pro forma was created, we have got out the provision requirement from net provision, but we have not reversed the excess provision. We could have reversed about INR 23 crores of provision, if you go by the same formula adopted by the December end. Whereas we have not reversed the excess provision. We have retained the INR 23 crores provision in the system as a cushion for the COVID-related issues coming through the second wave.

Okay. And just one last data-keeping question. So I think I missed your opening remarks, what was the SME book that you mentioned?

SMEs, that's less than INR 400 crores, could be around INR 385 crores if I remember correctly on which we have provided 25% again.

And this includes INR 385 crores is for the entire book?

Come again?

And not the reported SME.

No, all the accounts. Except the gold loans in the SME, we are not provided for. So all other NPA by stressed accounts in other portfolio, which amounts about INR 385 crores, we have provided 25%.

Okay. So this is special mention accounts, right?

Yes, special mention accounts, which meet even 1-day default. SMA 0 is only 0 to 30 days, that also we provided 25% at this time.

[Operator Instructions] Next question comes from Haresh Kapoor from India Infoline.

Am I audible? Hello?

Yes.

Am I audible now, hello?

Yes, yes, go ahead.

Sir, just a couple of things. One is, in terms of near-term outlook, just want to get a sense on that. So obviously, a lot of work happening on new products that you want to introduce. Maybe that gets pushed a little bit because of COVID 2. And also in terms of Kerala, I think they're talking about not really pressing towards recovery of loan accounts, et cetera, even from, I think, [indiscernible]. So just wanted to get your sense, how do you look at asset quality behavior in the near term? And how do you look at the portfolio buildup for this quarter or maybe a couple of quarters then?

The year 2020/'21, all the 12 months we had this corona program, right? It started in the March last year, and it went through that process. And there were lockdowns on a large scale. There were sensitivities around the election. So politicians were not supporting the recovery efforts. And courts were not functioning. And in spite of all these things only, we have recovered more than INR 185 crores during the last year. So considering our portfolio, it is very substantial money. So the challenges will continue during the current year. Of course, governments will also give these kind of directions. But I'm confident that we'll be in a position to maintain the same spirit and recover. We don't go for a forceful recovery in any case. We don't have recovery agents through whom we recover. It's all only persuasion. From our own side, we just talk to them, educate the customer about the need for paying the loan in time to maintain a credit history and also support the customer whenever they need. If they need actual working capital, additional support, we always supported the customer. So our relationship with the borrower is so good. And I don't anticipate much of problems during the current year. Of course, the realization of the assets, and we are selling in the COVID situation is much less than what we might have got otherwise, okay? That challenge is there. That we are willing to compromise. So realizable value has been brought down. We have taken the latest valuation and gone ahead with the sales of properties also.

Sure, sir. And the growth -- near-term growth, how are you looking at that for H1 now? Is there any thoughts around that?

Growth is a challenge, of course, okay, because complete movements are restricted. So -- but it is what was there in last year also. I hope it should not constrain us to a large extent. And [indiscernible] are not keeping offices open, NBFCs are not open their offices. So in a way, that's an opportunity for the banks, which are keeping the offices open today, working. Even if it is alternative dates, it's fine. Last time, our gold loan growth was so good, where NBFCs were not there in the field at all. Once the customer comes out of NBFC and comes to a bank, he will not go back to NBFC because value proposition in bank is better. The rates are very low. So whatever we gained during that period, we will be retaining. And probably, this pandemic will also help us of more new clients from the higher interest segment, okay, which should be good for us. It's a good value proportion for the borrower. It's a win-win situation.

And sir, just one thing I just want to reconfirm the SMA number that you're giving out, that also includes retail or that is just about INR 5 crores? And COVID...

SMA numbers includes everything except the gold. Gold is not included in SMA, okay?

Sure. So even retail accounts are basically part of it?

Yes. All other accounts. Except gold, everything is taken in the SMA number of INR 385 crores.

And the buffer that we have is just INR 23 crores that we're carrying into next year, that the excess buffer that we have?

That's right. That's right. In total, extra provision over and above the regulatory requirement is about INR 250 crores, okay? Because of our accelerated provisioning policy, we have more than INR 120 crores of excess provision. And because of the COVID provisioning policy which we created in December, we have more than INR 80 crores. And others, also there's just an explanation in the presentation. We are holding INR 250 crores over and above the regulatory requirements as on date.

Next question comes from Susmit Patodia from Motilal Oswal.

Hope everyone at CSB is safe and healthy. Sir, I wanted to firstly understand how has this crisis been on employees? Have you had any big challenges? What is the bank doing in terms of effort towards employees? Just wanted to get...

Substantial number of employees are in Kerala because branch network is -- 42% is there. So Kerala managed the COVID on very well, not much of losses were there. So naturally, we have not heard any bad stories during the last round. During the current year, we have lost 2 employees. One in Kerala, who is about 59 years old, got into ICU and he could not come back. And there is another young girl in Delhi, 34 years old, a marketing officer. These were the 2 deaths we have seen. We are taking all possible steps to support the people. In Kerala, it is not a challenge because we have a lot of medical institutions with our -- banking relationships are there. We have extension counter. So we can get the hospital beds and other things. That is not a challenge in Kerala. Even in Kerala, for the common public are also the hospitalization is not a challenge. But outside Kerala, we have limited reach to provide these services, but we provide all kind of support. We have group insurance. We have group medical insurance. And in some areas, we have provided much more than what is eligible under the insurance also. We provide all necessary support to the staff, both monetarily as well as emotionally to work on this problem. And those who opted for leave during this period, subject to people being available, we have also permitted them to be on leave. And we have asked only 50% of the people to come to the office. And most of the administrative people are allowed to work from home. So reasonably, we have managed well so far.

And sir, the second question was, last time you had the call, we had a lot of background noise. So if you can give us an update on that, how is that effort gone?

Certainly, no more [indiscernible], that is the only day [indiscernible] of 3 years. Now it seems to be silent, okay. It is okay see, when the industrial level settlement was there, when the people have not got it, naturally, they got educated. But we had 2, 3 rounds of conversation with them and told them why we are not able to offer it. So if you go through the entire presentation, only area if you compare with the peer banks, where we are weak is on the productivity, even now, good results. My productivity is hardly 60% to our industry level productivity. So unless the productivity increases on the industry level, I don't want them to come to the most efficient bank's productive level. Average industry level productivity when we reach, we will think about a wage revision, that is what we told them. But anyway, the IGA employees today are miniscule percentage. They are hardly 24% or something like that. So the other non-IGA employees on a very larger scale. So even if there's an agitation, it doesn't affect us. But secondly, [indiscernible] return of all the employees and hope that a better industrial climate will prevail going forward.

All right. And my third question, sir, is if you can just explain this a little bit more, sir, this change in extra provision of -- due to change in the mortality table?

Mortality rate. Okay. See, there was actuary who was giving us these evaluations over the year. We don't know about this mortality table, what's mortality table he has had and all. He has adopted previous table, and he has given evaluation all along, for which we have already provided. On a comparative basis, when I came in, I just compared the provision held per employee by this bank with other banks. So I was happy about it because our provisions was comparatively much larger than any other bank's provision per employee. So I thought it's fine. Now the previous person passed away during this period. He has given the evaluation for the current year, subsequently he passed away. So then we shifted to a different actuary. The different actuary said that, "I would like to go by the latest mortality table." We said we have no problem. Whatever assumption you are making, that is your job. Whatever actuarial evaluation you are giving, we'll provide for that. So this is on the higher side by INR 38 crores. We accepted that. And we have provided for it.

And sir, what will be the increase in recurring because of this...

No, no. This is only one time. Now that can be adopted next table, 2014/'15 table we adopted, so we updated ourselves. There won't be any further increase, right. See, there are only 579 employees on this defined pension as on date. There were 1,800 employees, 1,200 have already retired. Out of this 579, I think 22 people are -- 25 people are retiring doing this month itself, and 200 people are retiring in the next 2 or 3 years. So what will be left out will be hardly about 300-plus employees over a period of next 20 years. So pension is not going to be a major challenge for this bank. Except that we have to provide for that VA portion of the employees and everybody is going into the current expenditure. Otherwise, I don't think pension will continue to be a problem for the years to come. For these 589 employees, we have more than [ INR 275 crores ] or something as a provision, which is again on the higher side when compared to the peers.

Next question comes from Digant Haria from Green Edgewell Services.

Question from my side. One is that, see now that the LTVs for gold loans will revert back to the 75%. Like last 12 months, we had a special dispensation of 90%. Will that have any bearing on the growth that we can do in the next 12 months in the gold loan segment? That's my question number one. And question number two, sir, is that we had a bit of gold price volatility in the last 12 months. So how did the bank deal with the customers in terms of like whether there were any auctions or whether we had to call for margins or we could very smoothly sell-through because we never gave such high LTVs? And you know what -- and did we reduce our LTVs this quarter because of this gold price volatility? Yes, sir, these 2 questions. Any insight on these would be appreciated.

The higher LTV was permitted only up to 31st March. As RBI has not extended the scheme, it has come to an end for all of us. So we have gone back to the original way. Now it's only 68% which we are giving at the maximum, okay. Normally, it's 63%. So at the peak, it has gone up to 83% LTV, okay. Now as on yesterday, it has come to 77.8%, okay. The portfolio level, loan to asset value even today is only 77.8%. Fortunately for us, gold prices have also started moving up, okay. Again, it has come back to the -- near to the peak now. So I don't think there could be big losses. But we are monitoring the mark-to-market for these gold loans. And it was INR 1.14 crores for the portfolio of INR 6,000 crores during the last weeks. I'm confident subsequently the prices have moved up a lot and the mark-to-market losses should be 0 as on date. At individual account level, there could be some accounts where the loan to asset value might have exceeded 90% or even 100%, okay. But we have given auction notices to all these people. And most of them, when auction notice is given, 90% of the loans will be redeemed. Only 10% of the people will allow the jewel to go in the auction. Normally, we were very sentimental about this gold selling. So there are a lot of sentiments attached to the gold jewelry. Once you sell it in an auction, people won't come back you. So we give enough time to the people. Our past experience shows 2014/'15 also, we never lost anything worth -- maybe INR 70 lakhs or something was loss, which I have seen. That also being recovered. Slowly the recovery is coming in that also. At that time, portfolio was INR 3,000 crores. So it won't cause any major impact on the gold loan portfolio. We have larger provisions for the gold loan, whatever be the NPAs, INR 44 crores was the NPA in March 31st. So that we have provided for 25%. Out of the INR 44 crores, at least INR 10 crores may have been closed by the same, remaining auctions are going to happen during the current week. So you must be seeing in the newspaper a lot of auction notices are coming up. So this problem is there for all the banks, financial institutions and NBFCs. But as the gold prices have recovered, nobody will incur any worthwhile losses, most of them will be in operational to recover the money.

Right. Right, sir. That's the auction number, sorry, I could not -- was it INR 44 crores or did it happen or it will happen?

INR 44 crores was the NPA on 31st of March.

Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. Sir, and the gold loan -- one just follow-up that in gold loans, generally higher LTVs, you can charge higher yields on loans if you give higher LTVs. So now if the LTVs come down, do we foresee any change in the product yield as you know for gold loan as a whole -- because this INR 6,000 crores of gold loan portfolio will also reprice over the next 12 months at a much lower LTV than last year. So will the yield change for us to a little lower level?

Till the April end, we have not linked the LTV to the rate, okay. Only in May first week, we introduced the concept of linking LTV to the rate. So it won't have any impact on the yield, which you are having because when we given higher LTV, the yield will be much more than what we were charging in the costs because we understood the risk now. That should have a positive impact on the yield, not a negative impact.

Next question comes from [ Manav Vijay ] from Deep Financial Consultant.

So sir, my first question is regarding the VRS policy that you had mentioned in quarter 3 call. So you had mentioned that you have offered that option to the employees and it's going to be roughly INR 80 crores hit that we should expect in quarter 4. So now you just mentioned that you had a couple of [ pounds ] with the employees. So if that option is now off the table that means those employees will stay with the bank, and as and when their retirement comes or they decide to leave, so that natural attrition will continue?

We have not made any specific provision for it in the last quarter. We just estimated INR 80 crores for 232 people who are eligible for it. But hardly 34 people have opted for the VRS, which is 33 were given the VRS. So that doesn't cost us much. The additional discrete share payment, which is paid was about INR 2 crore, INR 800,000 or something like that, which is accounted in the profit and loss, of course. It was available only up to February last year. And that was finalized in February. And March, the payout does happened, and then otherwise, because of the gratuity payout, PF payout and buying up annuities, everything is completed in March. So there won't be any additional impact on it. Of course, their salaries will be same for the future, that is only advantage. So otherwise, it never had an impact on the profit and loss.

Sure. My second question would be, sir, so after in almost 100 branches last year, now you intend to add 3,200 branches in this year. And you also mentioned that you want to frontload them so that you can have the benefit for the rest of the year. So out of these 3,200 branches, how many you intend to have as your gold branches? Or again, it is a mix of products from those branches?

No. There is no specific gold branches. When we open the branches, we take into consideration various factors. The clusters, which are very familiar for MSME clusters, SME clusters and there are particular classes where Gold Loan is to invest. All the data is available in the public domain. So we have opened the branches where CASA is the focus. Where SME is the focus, where MSME is the focus. And many branches are having focused on the Gold Loan also. Almost 70%, I can say on a ball [ bottom ] but, maybe 70% of the branches have come up in the Gold Loan potential area. It doesn't mean only Gold Loan, they will do. They will do MSME, SME, everything in that area. But Gold Loan will be picking up much faster. Gold Loan doesn't take time to build up, right? There are branches which have reached INR 10 crores off of Gold Loan business within 2 months when we opened at the right location. So Gold Loan can happen immediately. Other businesses takes time to build up, right? CASA will ramp up over a period, MSME, SME will ramp up over a period because they're all small indicators. But Gold Loan can happen faster. So there is no specific Gold Loan branch. Every branch is a full-service branch. There could be to start with to make the branches viable, we are given within the ES side most of other branches should become breakeven. Only in metro areas, they should breakeven within 18 months. It is a time line. So accordingly, they are focused on the Gold Loan [ many stages ] to breakeven, then simulteanously they build other businesses also.

Sure, sure. So sir, my next question -- so on a -- as of now, we have current branches of 514. On top of that, we're adding roughly 200 branches, which was almost a 40% addition. So now -- so how does that impact our cost-to-income ratio, let's say, for FY '22? So first of all, would you be adding employees in the same, [indiscernible] to the same extent? Or the -- or let's say, in those new branches, employees would be lower because we will have, let's say, higher digital usage?

Sure. See, the new employees are coming at a much lower rate. We don't recruit at the IBA sales now. IBA skills recruitment they stopped 5 years back. So new employees are coming at market-related service. Just like any other private sector bank, most of them are sales force where the payout is much lesser. Of course, over a period, they get incentives and they go up faster in the area, they will be making more money. By the time they [indiscernible] much more productive. So we recruit the people mostly from the market. There may be 1 or 2 people going from the existing legacy staff. Legacy staff are only 1,400 today. So on now to the legacy stuff may go there to establish the systems together. Otherwise, right from the branch manager to the sales staff, [indiscernible] recruited from the market, either from the other private sector banks or from the NBFC or from other consumer regulatory industries. So the costs on the staff costs is not much higher. And the capital -- CapEx also, we have brought on very substantially. One strategy adopted by [indiscernible], the public sector banks, which have gone into a merger mode have closed out multiple branches in the same location. Some of them are really good, well furnished. We have just taken up the premises along with the infrastructure, [ paying ] the book value and started functioning within a week's time. There, the CapEx is very low. The strong room is available, the deposit also are available. SMEs are also available. Securities are also available. Generator was available. Mainly the full setup was taken over. So wherever we have taken over these close to branches premises, the branches have come up much faster. One more advantage of branch expansion during the current year is that the landlord expectations have come down. There are a lot of commercial establishments which are closed. You are able to negotiate for a better rate. Remember, this will be for the next say 10 years, right? All our agreements are for 5 plus 5 years. So when you negotiate at this point of time when there is a distress, particularly for real estate and commercial space, you get it to a much, much competitive price. So reducing the rent, reducing the CapEx, reducing the employee cost, helps us to breakeven at a much, much faster rate. So I think the strategy would define so far...

Sir, like we ended this year FY '21 with a 54% kind of a cost-to-income ratio, so.

Cost-to-income ratio, you would have seen it was 67% last year, it has come to 54% during the [ current year ].

Okay. Correct. So now this year, since you intend to, I mean, add [ branches ] subjectively so...

Our target is to bring down to 50% within a short period and 40% overall longer period. That will happen. Anyway, we will review these under branches. We are reviewing it on a monthly basis. We will review. And only if this branch expansion is working in the right direction, we'll continue to expand. Otherwise, we may not. See, the organic growth seems to be much easier than the inorganic growth. So we are sure that we will be in a position to breakeven within 12 months. And if that happens in all the other branches, naturally, these 200 branches will be done, first and more. Otherwise, will slowdown on the branch expansion, okay? So over at this point of time, our thinking is -- so acquiring a bank and putting them into our mode of functioning will take time. And the staff part is killing, particularly if they are on the IBA package, the pension cost is killing. The industry as a whole, nobody has calculated the real cost of pension. That define the pension plan with the DA adjustment, requires very large provision what the industry is holding today. So taking one more bank with 30,000 people, 40,000 people or already on pension, another 30,000 people are eligible to [indiscernible] their pension. For many years, we cannot breakeven. So we feel organic growth since our right strategy at this point of time, which we are putting in place.

Sure. Sir, my next question regarding your advancing growth. So FY '21, we add roughly INR 3,000 crores of advances, of which, roughly INR 20 to INR 100-odd services [indiscernible] like you mentioned came from the Gold Loan. Now next year, since, let's say, [indiscernible] will come down as far as the LTV is concerned. And also, you have aggressive plans on other secured retail assets. So what kind of impact is it going to have, first of all, on your NIM, if you can explain that? And second, sir, so you have started to grow your loan book only last few quarters in that time. So before that we were actually consolidating. So now when you started growing your advances you need deposits as well. And as far as the cost of the CASA is concerned, they're actually one of the lowest one. So do you intend to offer higher rates on the deposit side to actually fund the advancing growth?

So first, let us look at the advances. Not that we have not grown other portfolio. My corporate banking as well as SME has grown very substantially, but the growth is not visible because of our exit policy. In the SME area, we had an exit policy, where we identified in the beginning of the year, these are all the accounts from which we will exit for various reasons, and we keep on existing the SME portfolio, which was around INR 4,000 crores has come down to INR 2,000 crores because of the exit policy, but that only protected our portfolio today. We got out of all the [indiscernible]. In the Corporate banking, what has happened was we are hiring [ triple-edited ] companies on a very large scale, which we are paying 9% and double because these loans are tied up when there was a liquidity problem at that side. But subsequently when the liquidity issue was addressed and when liquidity becomes surplus, these corporates have returned the money in a very big way. More than INR 1,000 crores was [ returned ] last year by these NBFCs and large operators. So that money got redeployed in other assets. Maybe 1,000 crores was a disbursement, but that is not visible because of the repayments, which just happened. So now there are no -- I don't left out on the [indiscernible] category, which has the option to [ reading ]. They are [indiscernible] accounts, but do not have the option to repay. So I don't think there will be any negative growth on that account. So the normal growth, if it happens also, that should be sufficient. And we have recruited a large number of new people as a relationship manager, underwriting officers, as [indiscernible] as product managers and all. They are all settling down, and there will be an opportunity to initiate the business. Many of them are in the field now. In spite of the COVID, we are seeing reasonable amount of flow of new proposals. So I'm sure this time also, we'll have a decent growth. I cannot give a forward-looking number. We will have a decent growth subject to the constraints placed by the external environment. But Gold Loan may not get affected by all these things. When the LTV has brought down, it is not only for me, it is for the [ 10 industries that's ] brought down. So naturally, we must be in a position to grow. And we have a good sales force, which will push the sales. We may not go 61%. But certainly, we will have a decent growth. All along, we were growing for the past 5 years, except only where we are growing 17 years -- 17%. All years we have grown by 24% or above in advances. So I think our intention is to keep it at that level.

Next question comes from Mahesh M.B. from Kotak Securities.

Just 3 questions from my side. The slide that you have on Gold Loans. So the [indiscernible] that you have reported there is Gross NPA or is it a Net NPA?

It's a Gross NPA.

Gross NPA. Okay. And the INR 188 crores [indiscernible] that you reported for the quarter or, let's say, on a full year basis. Can you just give us how much of it is [indiscernible] by volumes or [indiscernible].

INR 44 crores is from Gold Loan, remaining in [indiscernible].

What were the others, sir?

That could be SME, MSME, retail loan. Retail loans are also...

[Operator Instructions]

Of INR 188 crores, INR 44 crores has come from Gold Loans. What would the rest be?

Sorry, this is mostly different. [ We have some at quarter 4, some at ] retail portfolio. No single corporate has [indiscernible] the last financial year. Some [indiscernible] and transfer account was [indiscernible].

One clarification here, these accounts were originally just 1, 2 years or it's been a kind of a historical account?

Pardon? Please repeat.

These slippages that you saw in the SME book, are these originally in the last 2 years? Or was it some historical account for the back?

[indiscernible] So some of them are [indiscernible] accounts. [indiscernible] operate with us for the past 5, 6 years, operating omni buses, and omni buses are not running at all for the past 2 years. Naturally, you could not repay. All the Volvo buses are still [indiscernible]. And we have not even renewed the insurance, which we are paying now. And you cannot sell it in this market. So naturally, that code has become an NPA. So many of these resorts and related accounts and all resorts, hotels, restaurants [indiscernible] is a tourism spot. So those accounts are also in travel agencies. These kind of accounts have slipped, but these are accounts that are with us for quite a long time and [ lawfully ] secured accounts. We have collateral securities on land and properties. And maybe we don't want to put so much force now. But if they revive, there will be an opportunity. Otherwise, we have the legal course to recover this money.

Okay. Sir, last question. Yesterday, there was a news article that Kerala government has enforced certain restrictions on recovery in the state. Is this true?

[indiscernible] recover actually. They are given some records to the bankers not to go for the recovery during this COVID-19 second wave period. That is a request. They are not mandatory. But this has been the record for the Kerala almost for the past [ 1 ] year and there have been time and they are requesting not to go for the recovery.

Okay. Okay. And is true only Kerala or is it true for all states?

No. It is only in Kerala. In other places, [indiscernible].

Next we have a follow-up question from Mona Khetan from Dolat Capital.

Yes. Just a few [indiscernible] questions. So ex of the provisions that you have included in the PCR, how much would be the additional standard asset provision?

[indiscernible]?

Sir, let me replace. So INR 104 crores is the additional standard of the position we have [ made ], in addition to the NPA provision.

Okay. And this includes the ones made towards SME accounts and the restricted account?

Yes, of course. All the reaches [indiscernible], which we have provided already 5% and 25% in 2 categories. But in all those reaches in, we have provided 25 percentage across the board for all. And in addition to this, whatever SME account is there for all those SME, we have provided 25% across the board, then from the SMEs, right from day 1 [indiscernible] [ 280 crores ].

Sure. And these are part of the INR 104 crores that you mentioned?

Yes, of course, correct.

Okay. And how much would be the ECLGS investment for us?

Pardon? Please?

Disbursements under the Emergency Credit Line fees.

[indiscernible] SME and that I don't have the same [ period ] data, but not [indiscernible]. SME is a [indiscernible] given to the existing account all this. So [indiscernible] SME is a part of the [indiscernible]. But they are not [indiscernible] has already become NPA [indiscernible] small amounts. And other than this SME, this deal also may have been included. But I don't have the quantification right now readily available with me.

Okay. And what would be the restructured book, including those under implementation?

Restructure book overall, whether we are having the [indiscernible] books up to INR 63 crores outstanding [indiscernible] [ 31 3 ]. After this, we have got the [indiscernible] in the previous 2 years flat [ relief resure relief ] for the MSME accounts are also available to us. So that other than this, as for the some SME guidance, there was a onetime [indiscernible]. We have got about only INR 25 crores, INR 23 crores was at a one time INR 25 crores. It is including standard, substandard of leveraging together. This INR [ 60 ] crores is MSME [indiscernible]. And other than this COVID-related ratio, I think it is only small personal loans. We are not giving this for [indiscernible] any of the corporate account. Only some personal loans around 13 [indiscernible] one time around INR 1.33 crores were issued. It is mostly the salary, the school teachers whose salary has not been issued on time, they want [indiscernible] the payment of the repayment has been done on those cases. Overall, [indiscernible] is only INR 65 crores.

INR 65 crores, including everything. Okay.

Including everything, [indiscernible].

Okay. And including what is still under implementation, should be implemented by June, how much would be that alone?

So far, nothing is pending for implementation. Whatever is that we've already done in [indiscernible]. And in June, that's for the second new circular, we may be getting some application. I'm not sure about this. We are not sure anything so far, then we will be able to calculate how much we are to go for it.

Okay. And just one last data point. So what would be the slippages for full year FY '21?

This year?

Yes.

Nothing.

This year or...

Yes. The gross slippages for FY '21?

FY '21, we are slippage of total INR 181 crores net. I'm totaling for the financial past year.

Next, we have a follow-up question from Mr. Susmit Patodia from MOS.

Just 2 questions. One is on this Gold Loan limit of 40% approved by the Board. Is that continues to be a hard limit, because if majority of your all new branches are in the Gold Loan heavy area. So would you stick to that limit or that limit is flexible?

No. As of now, there is no name because recovery is also happening. And actually, the gold has grown negatively after the year-end. So there is no need. And other portfolio is growing. So if there is a need, we can go back to the Board and take a increase in the limit. We won't stop the business anyway.

You won't stop the business. Okay. And sir, next is just Mr. Sudhin Choksey coming on Board. He's like the father of affordable housing industry in India. So any specific plans there on housing? And currently, how much is housing loan books, sir?

Pralay, would you like to take it?

Yes. Yes, sir. So yes, I mean I've been in discussion with Mr. Choksey already to get his guidance on this. So we had 2 discussions. We're building our strategy around this. So housing loans, which will divide into 3 parts. One is the premium housing or housing, which is done at a very attractive rate, which is difficult for us to do at this stage. B, is housing for the mid sector. And third one is which you're talking about, affordable sector. So what we plan to do is for the low [indiscernible] business, we are planning to tie up with somebody. Still, the announcement is not yet out. So we are not discussing that. So we have planning to tie with somebody for which we will do some kind of a partnership. So that we continue to offer them a good product, a marketable product. And hence, they don't have to go to another bank or another HFC for getting their loans because that is what happens [indiscernible] EMI from the savings account, and hence, the primary [indiscernible] the savings [indiscernible] housing loan been very important. So to the extent that will be a defensive strategy, which is and also in the process, land that business. So that's 1 part. The second part is we will continue to look at the affordable housing as well as the interest which the segments where we can afford to do business at this stage because obviously, when we do businesses, retail business at a high level, we cannot really compete at 7% and 6% kind of a thing. So that is something which will gradually build up that franchise over a period of time, not right now, but we'll build it. But as we are talking, we also do home loan business. It's not that we are now doing. We do it for our customers and -- but not a very concentrated separate particularized segments, et cetera. We don't do it. We do it only as a [indiscernible]. The third part, which is doing for on-lending kind of businesses, that is another strategy, which will build up over a period of time. And for on lending businesses, we will talk to maybe certain organizations, HFCs, et cetera, which should take a little bit of a time. So overall, we are building up a strategy on our entire home loan business, either through partnerships or through on lending or through directly doing affordable housing. All 3 will do.

And Pralay, how much will be the housing loan book today?

Right now, it's very small. The overall our housing and mortgage together, there's a LAP portfolio also. The housing loan book will be very low. And incrementally, we do very minimal kind of a business. So that's a very small portfolio right now.

INR 300 crores and LAP could be about INR 350 crores.

INR 300 crores and INR 350 crores, right, sir?

So the incremental business on housing loans, we don't do much, but the instrumental business with LAP, we have started doing, looking more recently. But obviously, we'll look at the credit cycle and decide. But last, we have started a little more aggressively right now.

The next question comes from Jehan Bhadha from Nirmal Bang Securities.

Sir, was there any one-offs in the employee expense of INR 180-odd crores? Or is this a new normal?

It's a new normal. See, we have explained earlier, INR 38 crores, we have provided as a one-off on the pension provision, okay? And even otherwise, the pension -- when the employee returns, we buy an annuity, but that ensures he gets a pension as on the date for his remaining lifetime. But when the DA increases, CPI index goes up, we have to pay in dividend. So every time when the DA goes up, the buyer, top of annuity also. For example, if there is a INR 1 increase in DA, my annuity cost would be INR 154 for a recently retained employee. However you want rupee increase. So that is one thing which is killing the [ mines ]. This was very high during the last year because the CP index has gone up very substantially. And the wholesale price was negative CPA inflation of around 6%. So throughout last year, the CPA index was very high. So initially, the DA obligation has gone up. During the current year, for the first quarter, DA has become negative, which means I may not pay any additional amount for this quarter. So if the inflation rate goes down, the additional annuity costs will go down. And as far as this INR 38 crores is concerned, there is a change in the actuary because the previous actuary [indiscernible]. When you actually came on board, he had a different assumption than what the original actuary made. So very actually has his own assumptions about that future inflation rate of authority rated [indiscernible]. He had offered a different table for mortality, latest updated table. So then that resulted in INR 38 crores additional provision. That is only one-off that is in the employee's provisions. So which will reduce our future obligations when the employee retires and we'll buy -- we'll be in a position to buy only from the provisions without contributing additions. So there is nothing more. During the current year, the one-offs will not be there. And the DA provisions should be hopefully less.

Okay. So sir, broadly, if we adjust for this one-off expense, then our ROA for the quarter would be in line with the full year at around 1-odd percent. So for next year ...

In the calculation, the dotted line we have shown by removing the one-off expenses, okay, INR 38 crores is here. INR 12 crores, we have provided additional depreciation because we reduce the assumption for the life of the useful life of the assets. Thereby accelerated the depreciation also, which has resulted in [ toll ] crores as a one-off. The future of it will come down. So the INR 50 crores if you add, what will be the result we are showing by way of dotted lines in our presentation.

Right, right. So sir, so broadly speaking, in line with the aggressive branch expansion strategy for next one year, the return on assets for the bank should be at similar levels for what it was for FY '21? Is that assumption right?

Not like to give any forward-looking statement. But the new branches, as I explained, should break even in the first year when these other branches are built. The CapEx [ in order ] is very low, the [ furnishing ] cost is very low. The CapEx [ in order ] is very low. Salary restructure is also low when come back to the existing employees. So the OpEx is also on the lower side. So the breaking -- breakeven happens in the first year. I don't think that will post much a threat on the cost income ratio. You might have seen the cost income ratio, which was [ 3 ] but it came to 69%, 67% last year, has already come to 54% during the current year. We will take it below 50% within a short period, and it should be below 40% over a period. That is what we are targeting.

Next question comes from Naveen Bothra from Subh Labh Research.

Yes. Congratulations for good set of operating performance. My question is to Mr. Pralay Mondal regarding the India stake this account aggregator services are going to start very shortly. 4 or 5 banks are participating in it. What is our strategy? Because we want to expand our SME and MSME books. So what will be our strategy regarding this technology, account aggregator and all these things?

No. I didn't get your question. What is this aggregator you're talking about?

Account aggregator that India stake is launching, HDFC Bank, Axis, investing and Kotak is participating for UPI type services are giving launch to SME and MSME launch, that account aggregator stake is being launched now in India on technology platform.

Okay. No, no, understood. Okay. Okay. So that is no, but that we are not -- at this point of time, we are not in that mode right now in that participation mode. I've understood what you're saying. So our entire payment ecosystem as well as all this ecosystem, which -- and now we are doing some more technical -- internal technology case right now. So we are not participating in those kind of things at this point of time.

Okay. And my second question is regarding the digital -- extending the digital footprint and all these things because I myself is a digital savings account holder of CSB Bank. I think in Delhi area, I am the first one. So how we are planning to ramp it up because the video and all these KYC homes has been legalized by RBI. So are we going to extend it at accelerated speed to build our deposit franchisee?

Yes, of course. So we'll have a full-blown digital strategy that will get played out for us in the next few years. At this point of time, see, digital has 4, 5 parts to it. So what you're talking about what is primarily account acquisition through whether it is the [ QIC ], whether it is digital account opening and those kind of things. So we are going to launch the QIC. We are working with a vendor right now, so we'll launch the QIC soon. But the real digital strategy will be to work on partnerships with fintechs and partnerships with other players where there is large [indiscernible] because we as a bank don't have a very large customer [indiscernible]. So one of the critical job will be over the next 3 years, not right now, but in the next 3 years, to build API, build a -- kind of a partnership model with other organizations. The way we are doing it, I just explained on the home loan side, for example, what we do on the insurance side. So similarly, we'll work with some of the other partners and give banking solutions by which we'll be able to on the fly on both customers into our bank. And that can happen for any products. It can be payments, it can be reliability. It can be assets, it can be fees whichever way. And in the process, we will create a digital stack out there. So -- and some of this technology is available in the cloud will it be [indiscernible] play, et cetera. And some of these things we're already starting to do. But coming to a first question, which is on the video QIC and some of the other stuff, which already started working upon. And we will do that. So that was without saying. The other digital part, which is internally, whether it is a straight through process having upfront whole bank to the customers on a mobile -- mobility platform or to the data shapes or to those kind of things. So those are the kind of things which should be in the next 12 to 18 months.

Okay. In the February con call, you had with some select institutions. You talked about the credit card and all these things, cobrand and all these things. If you can explain it a little bit more.

So we are working on a proposition on that on the payment ecosystem at this point of time. So when the time comes, there will be an announcement. But we are not building -- see, credit cards and those kinds of businesses, as you know, is in a very heavy investment and very high decision payer business right now. So we are, again, there working on partnerships, saying that it's too early for us to get into full fledged [ vision class ] or [indiscernible] or those kind of incidents at this stage. So we are going to again work with fintechs as well as the other partners, but not with banks, but with other partners where we have a win-win kind of a situation. So we are at a stage -- at a final stage of discussions. Once we are able to sign off those things, we will make those announcements.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Mr. Ashutosh Mehta, an individual investor.

Sir, just a couple of questions on the asset quality. In the Gross NPA table, you've shown an incremental NPA of INR 188 crores in this quarter. Would this -- and this looks like quite a granular NPA, not a single account impact. So would this something will worry you? Or is it something a one-off kind of thing? And a follow-up on that, on the slippage slide also, you've shown a slippage ratio of about 5.76% for the quarter. If you could just throw some light on this. You have a green dash bar also there, which I've not been able to understand.

Out of the INR 184 crores, which you are talking about INR 44 crores has come from Gold Loan. Normally in Gold Loan, we don't see NPAs because even though it is a 1-year loan, normally, it is closed within 4, 5 months. The same because of the income not being sustainable. Many Gold Loans have got it to NPAs. That is for the industry as a whole. This problem is there. Many of them are closed. Out of INR 44 crores, more than INR 10 crores is salary recovered, remaining or planned for an option during this period. Of the INR 44 crores, INR [ 140 ] crores is the NPA out of which is INR 30 crores to INR 40 crores must have happened in the other retail portfolios. Where collections are happening, but collections are happening at a lower end, right, it's a delay. So housing loans, the car loans, the vehicle loans, the [indiscernible] loans, small and medium enterprises loans, everywhere, there are some delays because people are not as regular income. It's an extraordinary year. So even INR 140 crores is only 1 percentage of the portfolio, right? So it is not very high. And all these loans are secured loans. We are not in unsecured loan business at all. And we talk about the SME, all the SMEs loan are secured, but from the primary security by collateral security of buildings or lands. So normally, by -- for example, the amount of NPA was much higher in December. By March, we were able to upgrade more than INR 30 crores, INR 40 crores. So out of this INR 145 crores, substantial amount could be upgraded during the current year or closed completely. That is possible. Some of them may not be closed, then we have to go through the legal process and recover the money. As there are assets, a chance of recovery, as always high. In our case, NPA doesn't mean an estimate loss. In all the NPA accounts, recovery possibilities are good during the current year, we have recovered more than INR 195 crores further. So it's not a small amount when compare to our portfolio of NPA. So it's only a process. So it takes time. But definitely, we'll be in a position [indiscernible] securities available. Even other ways are the industry standards, 1% of NPA is not very high. 1% of slippage is not high.

Yes. But I think most of the slip is coming in Q4 only. So that's far as I can..

No, there is. Because the Supreme Court has placed [indiscernible] NPA during the year. So [ first 6 months ] the moratorium was there. Next 6 months, almost, there was a restriction on declaring, which we have declared as a pro forma NPA earlier. The format is nothing but NPA, which could not be declared because of the court order. So if you take that into consideration, March NPA is lower than the December NPA. It's not an easy year. So naturally, slippages are happening even during the current year, you will see some slippages because the situation is very pretty bad. All the businesses are having a difficult time. We have understand that.

That would be the last question for the day. Now I hand over the floor to Mr. Rajendran for closing comments.

Thank you. Thank you for making it on a Saturday. Normally, we would like to have it only on a working day. But having it on a Saturday has some advantages. And we have it on a watching day. The Board members and the all committee members are given [indiscernible] only on the table because the [indiscernible] around the data. And they are not able to react -- interact properly. So when we have it on a Saturday advantages, we can hand over these results after Friday market hours. So they can go through the [indiscernible] meaningful discussion takes place in the room. That is the intention why many of the banks have moved the results to the Saturday. This being the first year of turnaround such a big way. And a lot of accounting policy [indiscernible] were that we are accounted for additional depreciation, additional provision, accelerated provision. So we wanted to have a reasonable time for the Board members to absorb the data and to discuss about it. So we organized it on a Saturday. Probably during the quarter ends following, we will try to have it on working days so that you will not be disturbed. And thank you for making it on a Saturday. We're making it more meaningful interaction. And if you have any further questions after seeing the presentation, in the presentation, we are explaining everything. If you need any further clarification, you can be in touch with us. You can call me directly or any one of our CFO, Mr. Divakara or Mr. Pralay, or Mr. Ganesan on the record report will be available to you for a discussion. Thank you. Thank you once again. Thank you, Pravin, for the excellent arrangements.

Thank you, Pravin.

Thank you.

So thank you. Thank you all.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Thank you, everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you and have a pleasant evening.