CTBC Financial Holding Co., Ltd. ($2891)

Welcome to CTBC Holding 2026 Q1 Earnings Call. Today's meeting will be chaired by Rachael Kao, President of CTBC Holding. Also present are Megan Hsu, CFO of CTBC Holding; Pai-Hung Yeh, CSO of Taiwan Life; and Justine Shen, Head of IR of CTBC Holding. [Operator Instructions] Now I'd like to invite President Kao to give her opening remarks.

Good afternoon, distinguished investors and media guests. Thank you for attending CTBC Holding 2026 Q1 Earnings Call. CTBC Holding delivered impressive performance in Q1. Pretax net profit reached TWD 28.3 billion. After-tax net profit, TWD 23.1 billion, which is a new record Y-o-Y and up 16% Y-o-Y. EPS, TWD 1.18. ROE was 18.3%, which is high. Overall, CTBC Holding has maintained sound fundamentals, while growth momentum continues to improve. The BOD passed the TWD 2.5 per share dividend based on the stock price yesterday. The dividend yield rate is roughly 4.56% and the payout ratio is higher than 60%, which is 61.3%. So these dividend numbers will be finalized on June 12 during the shareholder assembly. CTBC Bank performed strongly in Q1 2026. After-tax net profit reached TWD 16.6 billion, which is up 23% Y-o-Y, setting a new record high. In terms of core business momentum, deposit and loan base is still solid, and thanks to global demand for AI and investment and exports and trade finance going up at the same time, so loan in Q1 grew by double digit, 10% Y-o-Y. In addition, NIM continued to expand, driving NII to grow by nearly 24% Y-o-Y. As for fee income, thanks to the active global capital market and investment momentum driven by AI, wealth management showed very strong momentum. We are already #1 on the market, but investment-linked policies, mutual funds and structured products, sales continue to grow, driving a 28% growth Y-o-Y in wealth management fee income. Corporate finance and credit card also showed strong momentum, and the overall fee income grew by nearly 20% Y-o-Y. The overseas business also performed well, driven by geopolitics and industrial supply chain restructuring. The supply chains of high-tech and electronics continue to relocate to India and Southeast Asia. We have local presences to meet the needs of investment and expansion of Taiwanese businesses. We provide all sorts of different services and solutions to them, which can effectively enhance customer loyalty and depth. In Q1, overseas pretax profit was TWD 7.1 billion, up 12% Y-o-Y and accounting for 35% of the bank's overall profit, which is higher than previously about 30 or 1/3 of the overall profit. This also shows CTBC's advantage as Taiwan's most international bank. Our second largest subsidiary, Taiwan Life, reported an after-tax net profit of TWD 7.8 billion in Q1, driven by investment income, existing CSM amortization and accounting standard adjustments. And there's high growth in traditional and investment-linked policies. FYP went up 142% Y-o-Y, showing that the Life Insurance business continues to heat up. Now I'd like to give the floor to our IR team, who will first provide more details on our Q1 financial performance before the Q&A session. Thank you.

Please turn to performance highlights on Page 4. Holding reported net profit of TWD 23.1 billion, up 16% Y-o-Y, marking a record high. EPS was TWD 1.18. Holdings ROE was 18.3%. CBC Bank's net profit was TWD 16.6 billion, up 23% Y-o-Y, ranked #1 among peers. Bank's capitalization was solid, and asset quality stayed stable. Taiwan Life reported net profit of TWD 7.8 billion, mainly driven by valuation gains from bonds and funds, steady contributions from CSM release and the remeasurement impact of investment-linked policies following IFRS 15 adoption. In terms of business momentum, FYPs increased 142% Y-o-Y, supported by stronger sales of participating and investment-linked policies. Other subsidiaries, including CTBC Securities and CTBC Venture Capital, benefited from strong capital market performance with net profit growing 111% Y-o-Y. Page 5, profitability. Holding EPS was TWD 1.18 in the first quarter. ROE was 18.3%, and ROA was 1%. The Board recently decided to pay out a cash dividend of TWD 2.5 per share, implying 61% dividend payout. Page 7, capital ratio. We remain well capitalized across the group. Group CAR was 112.5%, primarily due to Taiwan Life's transition to the TIS regime. Taiwan Life maintained a TIS ratio of 125%. Bank card was 14.5% and CE Tier 1 ratio was 11.1% Page 8, profit breakdown by entity. CTBC Bank continued to deliver strong momentum, with profit growing 9% Q-o-Q and 23% Y-o-Y, supported by increases in both net interest income and fee income. Taiwan Life's earnings improved, driven by valuation gains from bonds and funds, CSM release and the impact of IFRS 15 adoption. At the holding company level, the adoption of IFRS 15 for investment-linked policies also resulted in adjustments to bancassurance fee recognition. Overall, the holding company's net profit was up 16%, both Q-o-Q and Y-o-Y. Benefiting from stronger capital markets, other subsidiaries saw increased contributions, accounting for 11% of total profit, while the bank contributed 60% and Life 28%. Let's go to our banking business. CTBC Bank delivered trading performance with ROE reaching 15.02%. Page 11, revenue breakdown. Revenue increased by 13% Y-o-Y. Net interest income accounted for 56% of total revenue, growing 23% Y-o-Y, mainly driven by loan growth and NIM expansion. Fee income represented 37% of revenue, increasing 19.7% Y-o-Y, supported by solid momentum in wealth management, corporate banking and credit cards. Meanwhile, trading and others declined to 6% of revenue, down 43% Y-o-Y, mainly due to lower swap income. Next, on loan growth. Total loans grew by 11% Y-o-Y, with growth mainly driven by mortgages, [ unsecured ] personal loans and foreign currency loans, all showing double-digit growth. NT dollar corporate loans increased by 3%. If excluding government-related lending, growth was close to 12%. Next on foreign currency loan. CTBC Bank has capitalized on supply chain relocation opportunities, achieving a 9% Y-o-Y growth in foreign currency loans and 14.6% growth, excluding FX impact. The growth momentum mainly came from Southeast Asia, North America and Japan. Within Southeast Asia, the Singapore branch, LH as well as the Vietnam and India branches performed well, all delivering double-digit loan growth. In North America, the primary growth drivers were the U.S. subsidiary and the New York branch. In addition, lending momentum from OBU and DBU remained robust. Page 14, bank deposit mix. As of the end of Q1, total deposits reached TWD 5.8 trillion, grew 8% Y-o-Y. NT dollar deposit mix remained stable, while the proportion of foreign currency [ CASA ] increased slightly. Page 15, loan-to-deposit ratio. NT dollar LDR was 85.8%. Foreign currency LDR was 63.6%. Overall LDR was 76.4%, continuing to improve. Page 16, NIM and spread. NIM increased to 1.68% in Q1 2026, up [ 4 ] basis points Q-o-Q and 20 basis points Y-o-Y, supported by lower FX funding costs and reduced [ wealth ] provisions. Including swap income, NIM was 1.72%. Page 17, fee breakdown. Total fees were up 20% Y-o-Y, supported by solid business momentum in wealth management, corporate banking and credit card. Wealth management continued strong growth in Q1, driven by bancassurance, mutual funds, structured products and custody services. Corporate banking fees were supported by loan growth as well as solid performance in structured finance and offshore private banking. For credit cards, higher spending supported fee income growth, up 14% Y-o-Y. Page 18, wealth management fee. For wealth management fee breakdown in Q1, the proportion of mutual funds increased benefiting from favorable market conditions. Page 19. In Q1, the cost-income ratio improved by 1.4 percentage points Y-o-Y, reflecting solid core business growth and well-contained OpEx. Next on asset quality. Asset quality remained stable with NPL ratio at 0.5%. NPL coverage ratio was 298%. Credit costs were down 5 basis points Y-o-Y, reflecting prudent risk management. Moving to Life business. Taiwan Life reported net profit of TWD 7.8 billion in Q1. ROE was 16.9%. Profit growth was attributable to mark-to-market gains from bonds and funds CSM release and the impact of IFRS 15 adoption. Total comprehensive income reached TWD [ 38.7 ] billion. Page 23, CSM movement. As of the end of Q1, the CSM balance stood at TWD 172 billion. This was driven by new business CSM of TWD 3.6 billion, partially offset by CSM release of TWD 3.2 billion and TWD 7.4 billion from CSM interest accretion FX and solid investment performance of participating policies. Next on premiums. Taiwan Life's product strategy focuses on value-driven products, foreign currency policies and investment-linked policies, driven by strong growth in participating and investment-linked policies. Total premiums increased by 53% Y-o-Y and FYPs grew by 142% Y-o-Y, reflecting our business momentum. On the upper right-hand side, the product mix was -- also shows an increasing proportion of traditional products, benefiting from strong sales of participating policies. On the lower left-hand side, foreign currency policies made up 48% and NT dollar policies 23%. Regular paid products represented 43% of FYPs, while single paid products accounted for 29%, mainly driven by foreign currency interest-sensitive products. On the lower right-hand side, in terms of channels, the proportion of CTBC Bank increased to 49%, reflecting increased sales of investment-linked and foreign currency policies. The proportion of external banks also rose to [ 33% ], driven by higher sales of participating policies. Page 25, investment asset mix. By the end of Q1, investment assets reached over TWD 2 trillion. Taiwan Life continued to adjust its asset deployment to improve the return. Following asset reclassification, the AC portion declined from 63% to 49%, while OCI increased from 14% to 42%. Page 26, investment yield and cost of liability. Following Taiwan Life's adoption of IFRS [ 17 ] starting in 2026, investment yields are calculated based on the reclassified asset portfolio. In Q1, total investment yield after hedge was 3.08%. Including realized gains from OCI, the investment yield was 3.3%, pre-hedge recurring yield was 3.39%, while cost of liabilities was 2.44%, resulting in a positive spread of 95 basis points. Page 27, hedging mix. On the left, 37% of overseas investment assets were foreign currency policies, 28% were fully hedged, 30% were unhedged, and the rest was OCI position. On the right, Taiwan Life continued to strengthen FX reserves. As of the end of Q1, FX reserves amounted to TWD 30 billion. Following the adoption of the FX amortization mechanism for AC bonds, Taiwan Life gradually reduced its hedging ratio to lower hedging expense. As a result, mandatory reserve provisions increased and hedging costs rose to 1.24% in Q1. Turning now to ESG highlights. CTBC Holding has continued to gain strong international recognitions for its ESG performance. We have been included in the S&P Global Sustainability Yearbook for 7 consecutive years, ranking within the top 5% of global bank this year. We also maintained the highest leadership Level A rating from CDP, reaffirming our leading position in sustainable finance. This year, we partnered with TSMC Charity Foundation and our local partners to establish Asia's first sustainable chemistry governance trust, creating an innovative model for biodiversity and circular economy development. Slides 29 to 31 present highlights related to CTBC's sustainability efforts for your reference. That concludes the presentation. We are now open for Q&A.

I'd like to thank the IR team for their presentation. I will first answer some precollected questions from investors and also from media. Later, if you have other questions, we can answer them during the Q&A session. First of all, overseas profit, which we talked about a while ago, our overall profit grew by 12% Y-o-Y, which contributes to 25% of the bank's overall profit. If we look at the details, the growth momentum comes from Southeast Asia mainly. The Y-o-Y growth is 53%, benefiting from geopolitics and industrial supply chain restructuring. Supply chains accelerate to move to Southeast Asia and India, and we seize the opportunities of the expansion and investment of Taiwanese businesses. So in Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam and India; we enjoy double-digit growth. In North America, the profit growth is 28% Y-o-Y, benefiting from our subsidiaries and New York branch business expansion, enjoying also double-digit growth. We also see the opportunities of Taiwanese businesses going to the U.S., and we provide integrated services for them. And you also asked about our future overseas deployment. Our deployment focuses on the U.S., Japan and Southeast Asia. These are our main coverages. At the same time, we also hope to benefit from the geopolitical changes and supply chain restructuring opportunities, hoping to help our customers with these adjustments and changes. We will continue to strengthen our overseas operation platforms to provide customers to satisfy customer needs. In Southeast Asia, we already talked a lot. What's special in Singapore, we successfully partnered with large regional enterprises there, and the performance in Singapore continues to go up. As for Thai subsidiary, it benefits from Taiwanese business expansion growing steadily as well. In India, India sees increased loans driven by rising working capital needs. And at the same time, CTBC now has 3 locations in India, which is the biggest coverage among Taiwanese banks. Our Delhi branch has existed for 30 years. And yesterday, we officially opened GIFT City location, which also -- and this is a duty-free zone. So in India, we can provide very comprehensive financial services for customers. And we also have other Southeast Asian locations, which can mutually benefit each other to cover the entire Southeast Asia and the ASEAN region. As for the United States, CTBC Bank has New York branch. And as Taiwanese businesses invest in the U.S., we will continue to expand in the U.S. by the end of this year. In L.A., we will set up a new branch. And in Texas, we will establish a new office. Our CTBUSA, our subsidiary in the U.S., now has 20 branches in the U.S. And in Phoenix, we will establish a subsidiary. We have submitted application to the local authorities, we hope to do that by the end of this year because there are many Taiwanese businesses in the Phoenix area. We hope to strengthen individuals and institutional services such as salary and also mortgages. As for Japan, in Fukuoka, we plan to establish an office. We have received the approval of the authorities. And we hope that by the end of this year, we can open that up. And in Tokyo Star Bank, we want to expand the scope of Kumamoto to elevate its level. And in Q4 last year, we received the approval for our Sydney branch. We are now talking with the local authorities and to prepare ourselves. So these are some questions regarding our overseas profit and deployment. As for high net-worth customers and the outlook about them in the second half of this year, we mentioned that our wealth management business continues to grow rapidly, both in terms of business volume and fee income. We will look at product needs of these customers, and we will also look at global investment trends to provide diverse products and comprehensive services. Especially for high net worth customers, we will combine with the Asia Asset Management center in [ Kaohsiung ] in Southern Taiwan, we will combine with this policy, some products such as private equity infrastructure and some alternative investment products can be launched there. At the same time, faced with inheritance needs and aging society, we will use -- we will strengthen our inheritance trust consulting to help high net-worth customers with more flexible asset planning. So these are some directions for the second half of this year. You also asked about insurance quite a lot. First of all, Taiwan Life's outlook, we are quite optimistic that new business premium can grow by double digit and face with customer needs, diverse customer needs. We will also actively deploy U.S. dollar interest rate-sensitive products and participating policies. And we will continue to launch products that meet customer needs to strengthen value-added and differentiation to boost our premium momentum. You also asked about the progress of our retirement village. This goes through our subsidiary, CTBC Retirement, and we are planning the first ever retirement village in Taiwan, which is a cooperation with CTBC University of Technology, hoping to leverage some campus resources. For example, some [ dormitories ] are idle due to lower fertility rates. So we want to establish this type of -- new type of retirement scenario, and we hope that it can open by Q1 next year. Initially, there will be 100 rooms. We will have some demonstrations and we will continue to look for suitable locations and to stream together with financial services and products to meet the needs in retirement life. You also asked about our OCI stock disposal in the first 4 months of this year. So in terms of Q1, our after-tax profit in Taiwan Life was TWD 7.75 billion. And after adjustment, the profit was TWD 10.65 billion. If you look at YT4, after-tax profit was TWD 8.4 billion and the stock disposal profit was TWD 8.3 billion. And if we look at the holding level, the number is TWD 39.6 billion in total. If we look at EPS, YT4, TWD 1.46. Including OCI, it becomes TWD 2.03. So these are questions about insurance. Now there are some questions about macroeconomics. We're not economists, so -- but we can share with you some major indicators. When it comes to interest rates in the U.S., on May 12, they announced the recent CPI, which was 3.8% due to wars in the Middle East. And the job market risks are controllable. So we believe that before the end of this year, the Fed will keep the current interest rates. But geopolitical risks continue to exist, and some capital is more willing to stay in U.S. dollars. But also due to spread issues and also financial fiscal deficits of the U.S., it seems that when it comes to the NTD, foreign capital continues to invest in AI-related industries. And the Central Bank's monetary policy is tighter, it seems. So before the end of this year, there can be some increase in the foreign exchange. It could reach TWD 30 to TWD 30.5 to USD 1. The latest numbers show that in Q1, the export grew by 50% Y-o-Y -- 51% Y-o-Y and the economic growth for the entire year may reach over 8%. It seems that the impact of the wars in the Middle East is limited. And the Central Bank's monetary policy seems tighter than before. So internally, we believe that as early as in June, there can be an interest hike of 12.5 bps. And later this year, there will be another 12.5 bps interest hike. If there is an increase of 25 bps, the impact on -- the positive influence on NIM is 1.7 and the influence on NII will be TWD 1.1 billion. Now we open the floor for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Jemmy Huang first.

I have a few questions. First, the President mentioned that if there is a 25 bps of interest increase, there's 1.7 basis points impact on NIM. So is the assumption that the CASA cost will also go up along with time deposit just as in 2022 and 2023, is that based on this kind of assumption? If CASA deposit cost doesn't go up at the same time, the NIM expansion can perhaps be more than that? This is my first question. Second, the second question is about Life Insurance. If we look at Page 23, TWD 3.6 billion, and the footnote mentions TWD 2.6 billion for new business [ and TWD 1 billion ] from deferred cases. So this TWD 1 billion here, what is the detail for deferred cases? And how do we link this to the asset and liability? So what are the influence factors behind this? One follow-up question. If you want to calculate CSM margin, should I use TWD 2.6 billion divided by FYP or TWD 3.6 billion divided by FYP? Another question is on Page 23, others, TWD 7.4 billion there; could you break down this number for us? Because I remember you said, you mentioned some reasons during the presentation. So by amount breakdown, could you give us the details, which will be more helpful to us. On Page 26, cost of liability 12.44%, does that include participating policies? If we exclude these policies, what is the cost of liability there? Another question. In Q1, in Taiwan Life's profit, how much comes from FVPL mark-to-market, so which means excluding FX influence, if we only look at [ FVPL ] mark-to-market, what is the amount? In Q1, there's IFRS 17 -- IFRS 15 transition as an impact. So I don't know what are the amounts on the Holding and on Taiwan Life, respectively. If we look at other operating results, TWD 2.9 billion on the slide, if we remove the one-off impact, what is the recurring number? I think it should be a negative number, but I don't know exactly what number is.

Let me first answer questions about the interest rate sensitivity analysis. So as I said, 25 bps increase and NII increases by TWD 1.1 billion in a year. This already considers the CASA sensitivity. As for insurance, Mr. Yeh will answer the questions.

For question number one, on Page 23, we say that TWD 10 billion comes from deference. Some policies didn't collect premium before approval, and the premium was only paid after approval. So according to IFRS 17 standards, the date fell on the end of last year, but we only collected premium this year. So there might be some time difference in the recognition. And this corresponds to what you said, if we want to look at CSM margin, we need to use 3.6 divided by FYP because this is the FYP collected this year. This is the first part of the question. As for others, what is the content there? For interest rate, there's TWD 960 million. When I calculate CSM, it's current, right, so from the beginning to the end of the period, there is the factor of interest. So along with time, the interest has to be calculated in and the other part goes into the cost of interest. So after a quarter, this 960 is the result of accumulation. Another part is FX. We have some foreign currency policies, right? So when we convert them back into NT dollars, there are different timings and different FX. So the FX is TWD 780 million. Another part is participating policies. When the returns are good, it adopts VFA, which means that all of it goes into CSM. This is because participating policies has good return on investment. So -- and the number here is TWD 5.63 billion. As for cost of liability, including participating policies, 2.44; without the numbers, 2.40. I didn't hear one of your questions, but let me answer the final one. In IFRS 15 one-off impact after tax, the number is TWD 3.7 billion. This is in other operating outcome, which has to be deducted. Could you repeat your -- one of your questions, which I didn't answer.

Yes. Fair value FVTPL in Q1, what's the impact of mark-to-market? What is the amount?

Mark-to-market, to answer your question, it's roughly TWD 1.18 billion reflected on PL. And so the number is negative, so minus TWD 1.18 billion.

One follow-up question. So when NIM goes up -- so NIM goes up by TWD 1.1 billion. I didn't quite understand. So the assumption -- is the assumption that CASA will go up along with it or otherwise?

The number reflects the cost of CASA. So the reflection is it's a complete reflection of the impact. So if CASA is not as fully reflected as interest hikes, then we will benefit more even.

[Operator Instructions] Another question is from Eric from KGI.

I have another question. Will you adjust -- so I want to ask you a question about the bank. Do you have exposure to [indiscernible]? If so, how much is that? And in April, the bad debt was TWD 2.2 billion. Is it still possible that for the entire year, it stays at 25 to 37 bps? And you also talked about the loss of TWD 27 billion. So what was the unrealized situation for stocks and bonds? And there was an item of negative TWD 5.7 billion. Could you share with us the fair value -- insurance fair value change in Q1? What was the decrease of fair value in foreign currencies? Can we look at it that way? Or we have to use the sensitivity analysis to look at this number? I also want to ask you the payout ratio this year is 61.3%. Well, it's too early to tell for next year, but can you tell us if the payout will be adjusted -- will be based on adjusted profit? Or how is it calculated? And what is the reason of the decrease from 112 to 110.5? And in Q1, the hedging cost was higher than 1.1 to 1.2. So the hedging cost -- if hedging continues to go down, will the hedging cost be higher than the guidance of 1.1 to 1.2 previously mentioned? And another question, sorry, I'm curious, you mentioned the retirement village. Where -- what is the IRR that you use to look at the return rate?

The current NIM doesn't include the interest hike assumption just as the President told you a while ago. And you mentioned exposure to [indiscernible], our exposure to them is about TWD 600 million. As for credit cost, it's slightly higher than what we told you. The reason is not because any specific cases. It's because our loan momentum has been very strong recently. And according to the rules of the regulator, we have to take out 1% of the general provision -- as general provision. If a new position increases a lot, our credit cost will have to increase as well. Currently, it's between 28 and 33 bps. You also asked about CAR. In Q1, why the CAR ratio went down at the holding level? The main reason is the insurance RBC turning into BIS, the impact there is about 13%. You also asked about payout ratio. Will we use realized stocks for the calculation? Normally, companies don't do that. But if you want to calculate with that adjustment, that's also fine. Regarding the TWD 25.7 billion number, we are now checking for the unrealized part. By the end of March, the unrealized number in OCI was negative 20.2 and equities positive TWD 21.5 billion. And at the end of -- at the beginning of April, it went up to about TWD 100 billion. So this -- as for another question, along with time when our NDF matures and which we don't continue, in that situation, in our estimation, the full year hedging cost is around 1.1 and 1.2. Our hedging ratio is 44%. The current number we see is 1.24, which corresponds to the expectations of the company. As for the [indiscernible] or the [indiscernible] projects, we have hurdle rates for these projects, which are around 3.5.

The next question is from Michael Zhang of Citi.

I have a few questions to ask. I want to clarify in terms of CTBC Bank, I remember that the guidance was around 1.73, but now it's already 1.72. If the policy rates don't change, maybe the next 2 to 3 quarters, we will have a more stable NIM, right? My second question, overseas asset quality. we see that the NPL ratio goes up overseas. So when we look at asset quality overseas, is there a deterioration there? My third question is for Life. The sensitivity of FVTPL, because there are no stocks, they are mainly bonds and funds. So in these funds, what kinds of funds are there? Are these equity or debt-related funds?

To first pass to -- to answer the question about NIM. In Q1, the number we gave you was 1.72, but there's the February factor because some foreign bonds and loans used 30 days as interest calculation. But in Taiwan, when we combined, we used 28 days, we used the actual number of days. So in February, NIM was higher as a result. In Q1, if we calculate back, in Q1, the number was 1.7, which corresponds to the outlook of 1.7 to 1.73; we expect NIM to increase in the future still because over the last 2 years, U.S. interest rates have been going down. So there is a positive impact as a result. And when we invest in marketable securities, our earnings ratio goes up. And in terms of NPL, it went up slightly in Q1, mainly because of our American subsidiaries loans because our customers, the tenant of the real estate went bankrupt. So there were some risks involved. But after our assessment, we believe that the value of our collateral is higher than the loan amount. So there won't be actual losses in the future. As for FVTPL, the funds are mainly ETF funds, and these are fund-oriented funds.

The next question is Alex Ye from UBS.

I have a few questions. First, for CTBC Bank, we see 51%, which is lower than 53% last year. This is different from our expectations. We thought that the bank would assume more pressure from having to submit the dividend. And we also see similar situations with Taiwan Life. So what are the considerations behind -- you need to -- the bank needs to reserve more capital to face with growth potential? So the future number maybe will not be as high -- will not be higher than 50%. And some banks at the beginning of this year said that loans were very in high demand and there was fierce competition on capital. So do you feel the pressure? And what's your outlook on the acceleration of deposits and also for loans? The third question is about the numbers in April. In April, the external environment was strong, but the U.S. bonds had some fluctuations. So we see month-on-month minus 7% decline. We want to know the reasons behind because in April, you said that loan growth was still quite strong. I have one question for Life. In the report, in our calculation, there is a positive TWD 1.1 billion to TWD 1.2 billion difference, and we want to know the reason behind.

For loans, our outlook, we said high single to double digit. But now due to AI demand being very strong, there's more capital demand. We want to move our outlook to double digit. And this is related to asset quality, which is between 28 to 30 bps. You also asked about deposit attracting deposit. Are we nervous? Well, on the market now, the supply of deposit is a bit tight indeed. But when it comes to CTBC Bank, we have no problem with attracting deposit. It seems that we continue to grow our deposit. In April, there was growth in deposit. As for profit in April, we mentioned loan growth in April increasing by TWD 140 billion. So it seems that our after-tax profit will be relatively weaker because of the submission that we have to do. So I didn't hear clearly your question. Yes -- so because April has only 30 days, and there are -- there were relatively fewer working days in April by 2 days. So this has an impact on NII and on NIM as a result. So per day, the interest difference is TWD 300 million. So for 2 days, there's a momentum difference of TWD 200 million. As for trading for others, in April, FX and interest rate also had some impact in April. As for the question on Taiwan Life, you said that in our P&L, there's an other item. Is that what you mean?

I just want to very generally ask about this.

Under the item of others, it means that all the contracts are categorized. Some policies, for example, there are different reasons. They can be categorized into losing or onerous contracts. And some policies can turn from loss to non-loss contracts, which can be reflected on our results. You also asked about our payout ratio, which is slightly lower than previous expectations. When we issue dividend, we look at growth momentum for the following year as well. The more dividend we pay out, the lower our growth rate will be. So we look at all the different operation factors before making the decision. It doesn't mean that every year, we will still submit to the holding level 50%. We will look at the situation of each and every year.

[Operator Instructions] We don't have any further questions. This concludes our earnings call. Thank you for your participation. Goodbye. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]