Curatio Healthcare (I) Pvt Ltd (500420) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day. And welcome to the conference call of Torrent Pharma Limited to discuss acquisition of Curatio Healthcare India Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Aman Mehta, Whole Time Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, and welcome to the investor call for the discussion of the acquisition of Curatio Healthcare announced today. The purpose of this call is to share some further details on the rationale behind the acquisition and the plans that we have in place for integration of the business. So just to share some highlights. The deal is valued at an enterprise value of INR 1,885 crores. The revenue in FY '22 is INR 224 crores for Curatio. YTD growth is looking pretty healthy at 25%. And going forward, we believe that a similar level of growth in this year may sustain until the end of the year. The rationale behind the acquisition is part of our overall capital allocation approach that we've been sharing for the last several quarters of focusing more on the India market and filling our therapy gaps through inorganic acquisitions. Curatio fits in quite well here because while Torrent does have a presence in dermatology and cosmetic dermatology, we are a fairly small player currently. Our existing business rank is about 21 in dermatology. We have a strong brand, Ahaglow, which is about INR 70 crores, growing quite well. Rest of the portfolio is quite small and niche and so about INR 120 crore-odd dermatology business that we have as the existing base business. What Curatio brings to us is a completely complementary set of brands in a segment where we don't have much of a presence. This is more of a specialized portfolio in pediatric dermatology. It's a part of both cosmetic and pediatric dermatology. The existing Curatio business covers a wide number of pediatricians, which Torrent currently does not cover. The base of the business is really driven by brands that are focused on infant treatment, infant care or infant wellness and treatment. And led by the spearhead brand, Tedibar. Tedibar had the sales of about INR 76 crores in the previous financial year and is growing at about 15% this year. Tedibar is prescribed for the treatment of atopic dermatitis across all pediatricians and dermatologists. And this is a segment that has an increasing prevalence across the country. While the existing base would continue to grow at this similar level of high double digit, we believe there is further potential to increase our reach across pediatricians in the country. Currently, there is a high skewness in regional contribution that the business has moved particularly towards the South zone and West zone. And this is also where the general cosmetic dermatology market is skewed towards. So there is a potential to create further awareness in the North and East markets. Once we start adding more prescribers in the field force and adding more coverage, the intent is to increase and make it a more even national contribution, though it may not be significantly higher or may not happen immediately because the market is skewed in these 2 regions. Apart from Tedibar, there are other very strong brands with high market share in the portfolio. Atogla is one, which is actually the brand that the company started with in about 2005, 2006 and it's also for the same indication, atopic dermatitis used for. It's a lotion used for treatment of atopic dermatitis. This brand is around INR 32 crores -- INR 30-odd crores, sorry, in this financial year and also growing very fast, high market share and all falls under the theme of the increasing prevalence of atopic dermatitis in the country. Beyond this portfolio, beyond these brands, there are also similar pediatric cosmetology brands that are part of the basket. Many would have been recently launched but have niche indications where Curatio has been first to launch to the market and hence has that advantage in lion share of prescribers. There are also additional medical dermatology brands which are fairly small in nature, but can grow further with higher coverage. And the idea is to build further on the existing base of this INR 224 crores. We expect that this year, the growth should sustain and possibly touch about INR 275 crores and the gross margins of the business are quite identical to the base business that we have currently deployed in India business. And while the margins of the acquired business are slightly lower, I think there is a possibility to bring these margins up to the existing India-based business level in the near term. So there are possibility for synergies, both on the cost and revenue side that we see visible and hopefully, should start playing out within the next couple of quarters. And we will keep everyone informed in the progress as we move along. So I have Sudhir with me, our CFO, here as well. So we'll open up to questions for the listeners. Thank you.

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sriraam Rathi from BNP Paribas.

Considerations on this deal. A couple of questions. Firstly, I mean, if you look at the previous acquisitions by Torrent, I mean, generally has been very reasonably valued. This slightly looks on the higher side or placed on the yield to revenue comes to around 8x plus on FY '22 basis. Despite the fact that it is more mainly therapy concentrated as well as, I mean more than 50% of the revenue is coming from just top 3 brands. So I mean, any rationale for the same, if you can just share with us? And also, I mean, what is the EBITDA margin of this business, if you can share that?

So we think it's more appropriate to look at the multiples on the current year basis rather than the trailing year basis, particularly because this is an asset which is still in a build-out phase. And we see a reasonable growth potential that's yet to be seen in terms of top line. And given that the top line base is still relatively smaller compared to our existing base, the operating leverage should start playing out in terms of margins. So I think both factors here, the top line growth, which would be higher than the industry growth plus possibly our base business growth. And the additional levers for margin expansion as we go along. That's why we felt this is a justified opportunity. And as I mentioned earlier in the earlier brief there are opportunities that we can further leverage as part of the Torrent integration that can further drive some of these synergies. Sudhir, do you want to add anything else?

Yes, Sriraam, I think as far as the EBITDA numbers and margins are concerned, I can share with you something which has been there in the public domain, right? I mean, for example, I think FY '22 numbers which were there in the public domain was that top line of INR 224 crore with EBITDA of a little over INR 60 crores. So that's the kind of margin which it has made in FY '22. And with this -- with the growth being significantly higher than FY '22, this year, as we spoke that YTD basis, the business has been growing at 25% and we should expect this momentum to continue for the full year. The operating leverage is playing out much better way -- in a much better way, right? I mean I'm us giving you some guidance on the margins, right? So that you can consider for the purpose of the valuation based on EBITDA multiple, right? All that we can convey here is that I mean there's a good amount of headroom as far as margin expansion is concerned. And what we believe is that in the near term, the margin should be reaching the margins which we have for our base India business. So that's something which will play out going forward. In terms of the overall, I think, EBITDA margin, what I can indicate to you is that at least from an overall company perspective, it's a little higher than the overall company EBITDA margin. So from that perspective, it's not going to be dilutive from a company perspective. But I think on a positive note, as we go forward with the revenue and the cost synergies playing out you will see improvement in margins coming similar to what we had done with Elder and Unichem in the past.

Okay, okay. And that's really helpful. And secondly, I mean, if you can just share some idea, I mean, as to how should we look at the interest and amortization because of this acquisition. I mean, at what rate the funds will be raised and over what -- how much will be the intangible asset and accordingly the amortizations?

Absolutely. So I think we've been following a policy of 15 years amortization. So that's something which we would follow for this asset as well. And as far as the interest cost is concerned, so the closing is going to happen in the next 1 months' time, right? So basically, the consideration would be on mix of internal accruals and debt. But as far as the interest cost is concerned, I think we can look at a range between 7% to 7.5%, maybe, anywhere between that is what I can indicate.

The next question is from the line of Prakash Agarwal from Axis Capital.

Just one clarification on this AIOCD data. I mean when we look at the full year, it shows about INR 178 crores, you are quoting INR 224 crores. So is there an OTC angle which is already there or is AIOCD not reporting correctly. How should we think about it?

Yes, Prakash. So the Curatio hasn't subscribed to either AIOCD or IMS. So the reflection is not correct. That's one of the factors. Additionally, the way AIOCD uses the stock as sample data. It's spread evenly across the country, whereas as I mentioned, this is a skewed contribution in Curatio. So because of that, the reflection is just not correct. If you look at IMS, it's slightly closer to the real picture, but still that would require some correction. We don't subscribe to the IMS data set. So we don't have the exact breakup, but I think it's somewhere around INR 250 crores in IMS versus the INR 170 crores that we mentioned in AIOCD. So the INR 224 crores -- sorry, in addition to that, there's also a significant component of the OTC sales that is coming, which is through the non-pharma channels, through the online sales mainly, which would I think about somewhere between 15% to 20% of the business is coming from that channel, which doesn't get captured either in AIOCD or IMS at all.

So in that way, it is fine, right? So INR 180 crores should be the Rx and about INR 40 crores should be the OTC. Is that right?

Roughly about that, but we will be working with both the data set providers post integration on correcting this. So we can share the full data set possibly by end of next quarter.

Okay. Okay. And your endeavor would be to have both Rx channel as well as OTC channel and includes some baby care, pediatric products also alongside since you have doctor coverage now? And what is the thought process?

So initial plan will be to focus on Rx mainly. Right now, it's -- the promotion and promotion spends are all towards the Rx business. There's very little spend in OTC growing right now, but still there is a sizable contribution of OTC because this is more chronic in nature and the stickiness of the product is quite high. So possibly by next year, beginning of next financial year, we would be looking at increasing the OTC spend here. But the idea is to have most of the growth coming from Rx and incrementally from OTC at least in the near term. And long term, we can see how the brands are playing out, but this certainly does have a very high OTC potential, almost all of the brands.

Okay. And the second part was on the Baby Care products. Do you plan to introduce those also like Baby derms, et cetera?

Baby Care products, meaning for which one?

Which was like ones you now have pediatric exposure in terms of doctor coverage. So would you launch more products for these divisions? Or what are you working with the existing products?

Yes, that would be part of the plan. So either from the existing base business to the Curatio division or vice versa, so that would be part of the plan. So the acquired portfolio is mainly in the pediatric care anyway. So it may not be a very high number of products that can be launched immediately in the -- rather new products that we launched. But certainly it provides a kind of a cross pipeline potential with our existing cosmetic dermatology and this pediatric dermatology.

And how would you rate the pricing of these products? Or is there any enough pricing levers or the synergy is mostly cost levers?

Yes. So pricing of the main product, example -- for example, Tedibar is much lower than most of the competition. Though Tedibar has the highest market share in Rx, the pricing is significantly lower. Right now, it's about INR 165 per unit, whereas there's many other products which are at INR 250, somewhere between INR 200 to INR 250. So not exactly show on how we can look at pricing at this point, but there is significant headroom for increases in the future as well.

So both price and cost levers are the reasons?

That's right. That's right.

Okay. And lastly, just one more clarification on the margin side. So what I heard, correct me if I'm wrong, fiscal '22 was around 26%, 27%. What you aspire to be in the first few quarters or maybe in this financial year would be the company-level margins and going forward inch towards India-level margins of your business?

Yes, I would say so, Prakash. That's the way to think.

The next question is from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC.

Sudhir, my first question is, you mentioned that this deal will be funded through a mix of debt plus internal accruals. So can you roughly indicate like how much of that will be debt funding? And what will be the payback period for this deal in your view?

Yes. Damayanti, I think out of this total consideration, maybe 80% to 85% should be debt and probably the remaining should be from the internal accruals. That's a ballpark figure, which I'm talking today. But as we progress over the next one month, it will be more clearer, right? I mean there will be some additional accruals which may come in. So probably, the debt funding should be between 75% to 85% is what I believe at this point in time. I think payback in a sense, you -- I believe you're talking about the debt position or the business payback you ask?

The business payback, the consideration which you are taking for this one.

So Damayanti, the way I see is FY '22 my debt position -- the net debt position was roughly INR 3,400 crores, FY '23 and '24 put together, there is a repayment schedule of around INR 2,000 crores. So let's say, around INR 1,400 crores by end of FY '24 for the existing debt. Add to that, the new debt which will come in this year, approximately, let's say, INR 1,700 crores. So by end of FY '24, we are talking about a net debt of INR 3,100 crores. FY '25, I should be able to pay substantial part of the debt, possibly around INR 2,000 crores from FY '23 cash flow. So basically, FY '25 -- end of FY '25, my net debt should be roughly around INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,100 crores, which should be basically 0.4x on a net debt-to-EBITDA basis.

Okay. So broadly by '25 or fiscal year '25 or '26 do you see most of synergies realized and then the deal nearing...

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Because I think FY '23, '24, my existing debt most of it is getting paid off and FY '25, the cash flows, which would get generated, a substantial portion can be used for the payment of the debt, which I am taking today.

Okay. That's helpful. My second question is like you have got the entire intra of Curatio with this acquisition. So do you foresee any kind of investment which you need to do for this business to achieve the numbers or the margin trends which you've mentioned some time back.

No, I think already there is a reasonable percentage of spend that's going in the business. So it would not change that much. In fact, when we look at the overall combined entity, it could be slightly lower than our overall company average as well. So the spends are quite adequate. And in the near term, we don't see a significant increase or even a slight increase from these levels.

That's helpful. And just a last clarity on the margin. So FY '22 margins were somewhere around 26%, 27%. And in near term itself, you are hoping to inch it towards corporate average? Or it will take some time for you to say, reach 30% plus margin for this portfolio? Like a general time frame which we should know.

Damayanti, that's what we said. The overall company margins today, for example, quarter 1 was 29.2%. So Curatio will not be lower than 29.2% for this year because there's an operating leverage, which is already playing out because of the higher growth, which is seen in the current year. And then as we move forward with the integration, you will see the margins getting better and better with the potential to reach the similar margin as we have for the base India business.

Next question is from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal.

Just would like to understand on Tedibar side, in case of atopic dermatitis, in terms of the range of treatment, where does it stand in terms of the taking order in terms of the business just on...

Sorry, I couldn't get the question. Could you repeat that, please?

In the taking order for the treatment of atopic dermatitis, Tedibar as a generic product, let's say, where does it stand in terms of the treatment?

So this is a bathing bar. So this is not a medical treatment per se. This is something that is advised by pediatricians as a kind of ongoing skin care routine rather than any kind of spot treatment. But obviously, the end result is that it significantly improves the condition of atopic dermatitis. So this would be prescribed along with a few other brands, I guess, as well. So the whole basket has to be seen together, Tedibar, Atogla and the other brands together.

Got you. And what would be the reach of this company in terms of number of doctors, it has been kind of servicing till date?

The dermatologists is about 6,000 to 7,000 and pediatrician is about 16,000 out of the total coverage of maybe 25,000-odd.

So pediatrician, 16,000?

16,000, sir.

And any rationalization of the online force as a part of synergy.

No, we haven't planned anything as of right now. We would want to see how the business is progressing. But from a PCPM perspective, I think the growth itself allows us to reach a reasonably high PCPM over the next 1 or 2 years. Currently, our base business, obviously, is at a very high PCPM. But this does have the potential of reaching maybe 7 lakh, 8 lakh PCPM over the 3-, 4-year period.

The next question is from the line of Abdul Puranwala from Elara Capital.

Just one question on the supply agreement for 3 years. So this is through the promoter of Curatio. So there is a manufacturing involved in this case?

So these are all P2P arrangements which we have. So we're just as part of the tooling process, we ensured that these contracts are extended minimum for 3 years now.

Got it. And sir, just one more on the growth of these particular brands. So if I refer to the presentation what you've shared, much of the brands are in the high-growth market, but somewhere down the line, 3-year CAGR, I mean, barring the impact of COVID, have still lagged the market growth. So I mean, it's being laggard. So any primary reason you would like to highlight what had earlier went wrong and why the growth in these brands were not in comparison with the market?

I'm not sure which data set you're referring to, but the CAGR also of the portfolio has been very strong. It's been, I think, at least a 14% CAGR plus over a 5-year period, minimum, I believe. And it's accelerating further as the new products that they had launched last year or 2 years ago get added into the base. So the market -- the growth of the portfolio has been far above the market for the last couple of years.

The next question is from the line of [ Nitesh Shah ] from [ Nirmal Bang. ]

Actually just following the last question. In your presentation, you have given the Tedibar and most of your brands for the 2-year CAGR of around 11% -- 10% to 11%. So is that substantially distort the growth of your major products during the COVID? And what would be the long-term growth for this top brands of the company?

So I think that growth will be referring to the market growth, if I'm not wrong, not the brand growth, and the market growth being 10%, 11% itself is quite high. This would be part of the overall cosmetic dermatology segment, which is about INR 3,600 crores. And at least CAGR is somewhere close to 15%, 16% over a longer period. So within that Tedibar even in the faster-growing segment. And Tedibar has the highest market share in this pediatric cleanser. So does Atogla has the highest market share. So the growth of the entire covered market is significantly higher than the IPM growth.

Got it. On the -- what is the fixed cost effect in this acquisition? How much you said?

Sorry, what is the question?

What is the fixed assets?

Fixed assets, nothing much, nothing major. These all intangibles, which are coming in.

The next question is from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America.

Sudhir, just wanted to understand the cost synergies part that you mentioned. Based on whatever you've mentioned, it seems like a lot of the margin improvement will actually be driven by increasing penetration of the brands that are there in this portfolio. So what are we changing on the -- so is it purely operating leverage that will improve the margins? And would you need any further investment to be able to increase penetration of these brands, particularly since you talked about increasing regional distribution, et cetera?

So Neha, in terms of cost synergies, what we are looking at is from a procurement perspective. So basically, the COGS, there should be some improvement, which will start flowing in because I think between Curatio and Torrent, Torrent has a better reach and negotiating cost. The other one is, of course, the productivity improvement, which is going to pan out over the next few years. And the third is certain fixed expenses where our cost structure is more efficient compared to Curatio. So once this business is merged and come to the same platform, there would be cost synergies flowing in. And in terms of investment, I think, Aman has already spoken, right? I mean on an immediate basis, at least for the next 1 or 2 years, we are not looking at any incremental investment. It's basically driving the white spaces, which are there for increasing the reach and getting a better revenue base.

The next question is from the line of Kunal Randeria from Edelweiss.

So I just want to understand the potential for line extension and, let's say, Tedibar, I guess what you have is Tedibar soap and it competes with, let's say, Galderma Cetaphil. Now I think Cetaphil has several products, moisturizing lotions and a lot of baby creams and stuff like that. So do you already have that in the portfolio? Or is there some potential on it going forward?

So that would be part of the future plans. Right now, it's only focused on a very specific indication for Tedibar whereas the other brands that you mentioned are very widely spread across many different indications. But there is potential certainly for adding new indications and extensions and life cycle management also would be part of -- I mean part of life cycle management. And additionally, they would be at the right time, the OTC lever as well, which can be further brought in. So definitely part of the plan going ahead.

So it would be fair to sort of assume that in the next 2 or 3 years, you'll slowly launch a lot of these line extensions.

Over a 2-, 3-year period, yes.

Okay. Sir, just to just push you a bit more on the price. So Tedibar is priced at around INR 165, other products have between INR 175 to INR 210, so how do you see this kind of pricing? Is it like a pharma kind of a pricing where you take 7%, 8%, 10% price hike every year? Or you can take maybe something higher maybe at one go and maybe keep it at par with others?

So historically, this brand has taken not more than 3%, 4% increase on an annual basis. And that also every alternate year. This year was an exception, I think, because there were inflationary pressures so that onetime high increase of 10% was taken, which will now start playing out in the inventory once the new stocks come in the market. But generally, I would say 5% kind of price increase is something that can be sustainable.

The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital.

Aman, these products, most of these are in the drug license or in the cosmetic license?

Almost the entire portfolio is non-drug license. It's either cosmetic or food license.

Okay. So in terms of on our -- so to the extent want to -- based on the restriction or ability to take price hikes?

Yes, there would be no cap on price hikes, that's right.

Okay. Now secondly, on you mentioned about we have 16,000 pediatric coverage right now with 25,000 as well as 6,000/7,000 dermatologists coverage. I mean from a revenue growth lever perspective, what is our primary lever here, our ability to increase the coverage of the pediatrics and the dermatologists or what else is the primary revenue growth leverage for us?

Yes. So as a national revenue contribution for the entire segment and for the brand as well, North and East is significantly lower compared to the national average. So that's something that we would intend to cover more intensely and more deeply. And additionally, there is enough organic levers in the existing coverage where increasing prevalence of the atopic dermatitis cases, particularly in the South and West, which are just getting diagnosed. That number seems to be increasing quite a lot as well. So the sheer population growth provides that additional room for the existing coverage to add more unit growth. So both would start playing out over the next couple of years.

And this portfolio, as you see what can deliver significantly above market growth for a reasonably long period of time.

We would think so because that's the general trend that we are seeing in the cosmetic space. The cosmetic dermatology space has seen consistently higher growth than the IP barring a few years. And I think that trend is something that is what, in fact, is one of the main attractive factors of this deal because it's a space which is growing steadily as disposable incomes increase. And cosmetics overall, skin care overall is seeing a large increase in usage intensity and usage this year number of patients or consumers on it. So those are the real long-term macro factors that we feel are going to be favorable.

And for us in transition part of this portfolio to an OTC route, are there any regulation that prevent us or it's going to be just our tactical view on the opportunity at a point of time?

No, regulatory, there's nothing that could be a barrier. In fact, we have already started -- Curatio have already started OTC promotions in I would say, a small way last 1, 1.5 years, and it's already shown and this is mainly through digital promotions. They've already seen pretty good response. So the platform is already in place. Now it's about really putting that platform to a much bigger use. But I think at the right time because OTC, the spend can tend to be quite higher than the usual prescription business. So we want to calibrate all of that once we have the integration in place, the RX platform in place, the field force in place, that's when you start looking at this opportunity.

And secondly, on our INR 120-odd crore portfolio for here that we have on dermatology right now. I mean does this acquisition really provide a lot of strength to sort of pushing that portfolio also?

Yes, it would because Curatio has a pretty strong equity at dermatologists and pediatricians. So there would be that opportunity for cross-selling. And we have now experience of both Elder and Unichem and how that has been playing out. So it wouldn't be the main kind of growth driver, but it would definitely add incrementally to growth.

And secondly, Sudhir, when you look at their accounting policy, if you're going to follow in terms of -- and you said bulk of the proceeds or the consideration that we're paying is going to be in form of tangibles, which you're looking to write off maybe over 15 years. And with the interest cost, which is there on this transaction. So by when do you foresee this transaction become EPS accretive from a pure accounting perspective?

Yes, Nitin, what I would suggest is we're just waiting for the merger to happen, which would take maybe 4 to 6 months for actually the synergies to play out in a very nice way. So possibly quarter 4, end of quarter 4, we'll start talking about it, Nitin.

Next question is from the line of Prashant Kothari from Pictet.

This is Prashant. Just a couple of questions. What happens to the earlier management of Curatio?

So almost the entire team will continue except the few key senior management who have opted out.

Understood. Okay. And then on the pricing, it was very surprising to me. I thought that usually the brand with the largest market share also come out the best pricing in that segment. So now it is not true for Tedibar. Can you just explain why that is the case?

I think this was really the concept creator, the brand Tedibar. So and affordability was probably at the core of the concept as well back in, I think 2010 or '11 when the brand was launched, it was a new concept altogether. So probably because of that, it was kept in mind at that point of time and probably being -- keeping that value of the brand is affordable and effective treatment efforts continue and the payers will come in later on, probably wanted to price a bit higher than that. So that's -- I mean that's my insight into why I think that's the case right now.

And you believe this pricing gap can be reduced over a period of time?

It can be, but that's not necessarily part of the plan right now. But I mean the second and third brands are priced significantly higher. They're also seeing decent growth. So yes, there is a headroom to increase the price further.

And you said that a lot of sales are concentrated in South and West. Is that because this -- and this thing is also more prevalent in South and West? Or is it just the awareness bit?

That's right. The entire SKU of this particular market, cosmetic dermatology is much higher in South and West particularly in Bombay region as well. That's been historically the case. So it could mean that patients are more aware, doctors are diagnosing it more, but that's just how the segment has been. And because of that, the contribution also has ended up being in that fashion. North and East is also growing. It's been growing faster in the last few years, but it's still far off from where South is in particular, and even the West is. But there is a potential to grow in those regions as well.

The next question is from the line of Bharat Celly from Equirus.

Yes. Aman, just wanted to understand on the -- so we have competition from something with Siga, Beta derm medicines. And we referred that considering Rx data, we are among the top 10. But when we look at OTC and Rx, how will we stand in the market in the terms of rank?

So there is no clear dataset that indicates exactly where each brand is standing in a combined set of OTC and Rx. We are looking at this purely from an RX perspective right now and eventually the OTC source. So from an Rx perspective, in terms of competition, there is a significant lead in market share of Tedibar compared to others. I would think if I'm not wrong, the SMSRC dataset shows that Tedibar is ranked first in prescription, followed by the other 2 brands are also active here. Most of the other brands have been following more of an OTC approach and not through this pediatric segment approach, and that's where really the strength of this brand lies.

Right. And you mentioned that we are actually initial 75% of pediatric doctors. So just wondering that we have around 75% coverage and despite that, our revenues are more skewed towards South and West. So what is the particular reason considering that we are already touching almost 75% of the nationwide doctors.

For historical reasons, I guess, would be probably to start in particular pockets and then go across and eventually keep increasing. I think last couple of years, we have added quite a lot of field force for all of the brands. So I guess the plan would have been for the Curatio team to increase over time rather than add all doctors at the same time, which is what we have been following for our base business as well. We don't cover 100% of all specialties. You look at a brand from a particular base if there's further potential and keep adding incrementally over time. And that's how we would see this as well. From the current coverage to the next level of coverage, we don't intend to immediately add all new doctors. It will be happening gradually over time.

Right. And the last one, again, again, the convert or something related to first one I asked for. So we have looked at Cetaphil and these are like big brands Himalayas and also company like trading in the OTC platform. So do you think that the growth can be deterrent because of these brands because these brands are very expensive. In one of the article even mentioned that they have increased their promotional expenses by almost like 3x over the last 2 years. So could it actually work or happen for what we are projecting in terms of growth?

So I won't say this is competing with any of these brands that you mentioned directly right now because this is purely a prescription-driven demand, particularly more contributing from pediatricians and even dermatologist. Now to my knowledge, the other brands aren't focusing as much or even present in that particular segment of pediatrics where the dominant share is coming from Tedibar. In the OTC space, it could be a completely different game. So that's why we believe that Tedibar does have the existing captive user base of young parents and parents who have used this product before and the positioning can be differential enough to give us our own space at the right time. So competition in the OTC space could be different and I wouldn't really want to comment on how that may play out because that's somewhere further down the line. But I feel there is a significant dominance in market share, particularly in pediatrics.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be our last question for today. On behalf of Torrent Pharma Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.