CyanConnode Holdings plc (CYAN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the CyanConnode Holdings plc investor Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself and the company review all questions submitted with publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. I'd like to submit the following poll. Before we begin, I like to run a short introductory video. [Presentation] So now I'd like to introduce John Cronin and Heather Peacock, CFO. Good afternoon to you both.

Good afternoon, Paul.

Okay. Right. Let's get started. Firstly, the question we've got here is, look, can we just go through, John, your investment case and why people should actually look at investing in CyanConnode?

Absolutely. And I think just to pop up the slide there just so people can see it. I'll just get to the right number there. So slide -- thank you. Okay. So welcome, everybody, and compliments to the season. I hope you're all keeping warm in this chilly weather here in the U.K. So just to refresh our minds about in Cana, we thought we'd put the video up to explain what we do and how the product is implemented. And we are all about wireless communications. And we do have PhDs based in Cambridge that do the architectural design and also the hardware and the software of the system, the end-to-end system that we have. And we go to market through multimillion dollar organizations such as system integrators, [indiscernible] to manufacturers, EPCs, et cetera. And I think most of you know that we offer an end-to-end solution and not only for electricity metering, but for gas water or anything in the neighbor of network that we can connect up. The really exciting moment that we're in now is that India is rolling out over the next 2 years 250 million smart meters, I should say, ordering 250 million smart meters. And these smart meters actually are prepaid smart meters, which is really important as opposed to the postpaid that has been there to date. If you look at that market, a 250 million prepaid smart meters, the addressable market for CyanConnode is worth about $5 billion. So it's a huge market for us to go at. I'm not saying we're going to win all of that, but I'm going to be saying that we're in a good proportion of that. And if I just put an approach to what I think we can do in the next 5 years, right about 20 million, 30 million smart prepaid meters, the communications of would give us a revenue of between $400 million to $600 million. So it's a huge amount for a company that this year, we're aiming to do GBP 12.5 million as a combined entity, never mind just in India. And since only the last few weeks, the number of tenders that are out there right now out of the 250 million is 75 million smart meters, and that has a potential work to us well in excess of GBP 1 billion. And it's really important that we're at the forefront of this technology, we're at the forefront of what we'd be doing. We've been in India for the last 10 years. We are #1 in RF communications in India and why is that? Well, what we've got is a standard-based IPV6 LoWpan standard that's an international base standard that's really important for India. We also play to a standard IS 16444 that is applicable just for India, and we give a tick in the box in that. In fact, we sit on the standard-based committees in India and actually offer advice going forward as to what the standard should be adopted going forward. What really is important that what we offer in our solution, our platform is a performance level of throughput of data from the meter in the home all the way through to the business system of the utility, a performance level of 99.5%. That's really good process actually. In fact, we can do 99.95%, but we're really pleased with what we often know mobile operators, they're somewhere in the region of 90% to 95%. And therefore, they need to really look at maybe a hybrid approach with us to actually get them up to 99.5% plus. Our network as well is a fairly secure private network unlike the cellular network. As we all know, the seller network is an open network that any of us can tap into. So if you leave a football match, a cricket match, rugby match and you try and use a mobile phone. You know the cell gets clogged up and not everybody can make the call at the same time. With our private network, we configure it for the peak amount of data throughput, and that's why we can guarantee 99.5%. Nobody out is going to steal any of that capacity, any of that bandwidth. The other good thing about it is, well, we are meter agnostic. I'll just take India where traditionally, we were integrated with 3-meter manufacturers. Now we're actually completing work to integrate up to 9 meter manufacturers. Why? Because of this huge growth over 250 million smart meters, in our platform as well over the last sort of 12 months or so through innovation with a low cellular to be able to connect to the platform, NB-IoT and PLC and we're always looking at innovation, looking at cost game as well as the product. Already, we've got quite a hefty chunk of some of our silicon because the silicon providers can see the opportunity that's coming through now and the volumes that are coming through. So we're really pleased with getting quite a significant reduction in the cost, something in the region of around about 25%, which is really good part of innovation as well, long-lead traditional RF mesh would go to about 1 kilometer. We're now getting with long range, 9.5 kilometers. And that's another reason why our performance is high and that we don't always have to rely on cellular. But we're always -- well, if our customers say we want cellular or NB-IoT or PLC, we say, look, okay, Mr. Customer. It's not about the platform and the technology. What you want is the performance level of 99.5% plus, which is really important. And also a proven model for us, we've deployed worldwide 2.7 million units to date, which is really exciting. And also a part of that is about 1.3 million that we've deployed in India to date.

That's great. Thank you very much indeed, John. You've obviously released interim results for the half year ended 30th of September 2022 today. Heather, can you just provide some highlights, please?

Yes, Paul. So revenue for the first 6 months was an amount of GBP 1.3 million. Obviously, this is down on last year, but the main reason for that, we hedge by the end of the last financial year, we delivered majority of the hardware on all the previous orders. So as you know -- or just to refresh, we've taken orders for 1.3 million units prior to the end of March this year. And most of the hardware that have been delivered. So what we've been -- what we're reporting on those contracts is really the software and the services element of it. And then during the first 6 months in India, as we'll talk through in a bit more detail, they'll be going through a process of putting place this revamped sector distribution scheme and improving that and improving the empowerment process as well. And all of that has been going through in the first 6 months. We've won, as I said earlier, 1.3 million units further in India since the start of the financial year. So we've actually doubled our order book. in the 6 months. And the largest one of those orders actually came through on -- in August. So if you think in terms of revenue, obviously, we weren't going to take very much really on that in the first 6 months. So we got that GBP 1.3 million that we won as well as $9 million worth of revenue from the orders that we won in the Middle East region and all of that is rolling out at the moment. So it's understandable that the first half was going to be lower. It was always in terms of our market expectation that we put out because as you know, we only put out numbers into the market towards the end of September. So as always, with the first half, what was the majority of revenue weighted towards the second half. Just continuing on some of the highlights. The gross margin was 49% for the first 6 months, that's because the majority was more of the sort of software and services, whereas as we move back into hardware, we expect those margins to be slightly lower because they are lower on hardware. There was a small increase in operating costs. I think most of you know that over the last few years, we've been very cost conscious, and we've been keeping costs to a minimum. But as the company grows and also you will know about current inflation, I think inflation in wages, it's understandable that there's a small increase in the operating costs, which then led to the operating loss and the reason why the operating loss is higher than last year is obviously because of the revenue. But as the revenue comes in, in the second half, we expect that to sort of smooth out. Our cash at the end of the 6 months was GBP 1 million included actually in the balance sheet was about 350,000 units, long lead-time components that we purchased because as we've mentioned previously, there have been shortages in the market just to make sure that we can deliver on the orders that we've got from 1.3 million, we have been stocking up and purchasing the components, the long lead chance that we've got it available for that. And as I've mentioned earlier, there was 1.3 million units won in India, which doubled the order book and $9 million of orders for the MENA region. Just then talking about the debtors on the balance sheet at the end of the period because that's a question that we get asked by many of the investors. Obviously, it's the key to make sure that we are collecting cash and getting paid for the contracts that we're rolling out. So you can see that there was a reduction from GBP 7 million at the end of March, down to GBP 4.6 million. And in the GBP 6 million, that includes certain milestone payments that are not due yet. The models that we've had for the orders that we've won prior to the end of last year, they were based on sort of where we're shipping the modules, we get paid for those within anything up to 60 days with the majority on this is on [ credit ]. So all of that has been collected. And then all the services actually, there are sort of elements of milestone payments included in those dates where we have to achieve milestones such as, for example, implementing when we install, for example, 10,000 meters each 10,000 meters, we reached another milestone, and it triggers another payment. So within that GBP 4.6 million, not everything is actually due yet. We -- so we've received GBP 4.5 million cash from customers during the period and a further GBP 2.3 million since period end. Improved payment terms of customers. So part of the reason for that increase in cash received from customers is because we've got, for example, the contracts in the Middle East. Those have got where we require them to pay out front before shipping. So there will be an element that they pay when they call off the shipment. And then before we actually ship it to them, they'll pay the balance. So we get all that cash upfront. There's no sort of waiting after shipping. And also on the 1 million unit contract that we won, the payment terms on that, we basically -- we're using -- we've set up Genus who's a meter manufacturer and do their own meters. So they are going to manufacture our modules that will go into their meters as well. So obviously, payment terms on that as we receive cash from the one end of Genus will pay that. So there's no waiting time in between that as well. Improved costing on components, we've managed to get a significant reduction in the cost of our components because the suppliers recognize the large opportunity in India, and we're working very closely with them to ensure that we can meet the supply chain as well as, like I say, getting the best costs from them. The additional manufacturing capacity, so that includes setting up Genus. It includes setting up other contract manufacturers as well just to make sure that we can meet the demand as we go along. And then the final side within the interims is just talking about first period end. So what has happened since the end of the period end is we took $0.5 million from a subscription that was from an existing shareholder who had participated in previous [ facings ] and previous investments, dividend subscription, which was GBP 0.5 million. and substantial increase in revenue, as we've said in the quarter that ends December, we will have taken 3x as much as what we took in the first half. So you can see the ramping up as we start to deliver those orders that we took in the first half of the year. As I've mentioned before, further GBP 2.3 million cash received from customers taking the total to the year-to-date to GBP 6.8. Cash versus as at the end of November was constant of GBP 1 million. And then I think as John mentioned in his slide earlier, the current tenders in India for more than 75 million. I think when we presented at the time of our AGM only a couple of months ago, it was around about 40 million, 41 million units that work for tender at the time. So you can see the ramp-up in that, just a natural period of time that the government moves with that target of growing out the 250 million. And further investment in component stocks to ensure we can deliver on the orders. We've -- we had 350,000 units in stock at the end of the financial year, and we're continuing to take stock of, I think it's up to about 450,000 as being delivered at the moment and into the next quarter to ensure that we meet those targets and orders.

That's great. The Indian government recently announced approximately 30 billion revamped power distribution scheme, can you refresh us on the key points regarding the scheme and how CyanConnode is able to take advantage of that opportunity now that you've been established as a leading position in the market.

Yes, indeed, Paul. So as we've just described, there's a huge volume that's going to be ordered in the next number of years. So the government wanting to really improve the efficiencies and financial stability of the utilities have come up with this scheme the rebound distribution sector scheme. And really this is to put money behind the plan to actually ensure it does happen. And that's certainly to the values around about GBP 30 billion worth of investment by the Indian government and that equates to around about 15% to 22% of the projects. So each utility will get 15%, 22% is grant money, so free money basically, to encourage them to roll out prepaid smart metering, which is really important. And they're looking at the efficiencies of the data going through of not less than 98%. And as I mentioned earlier on, at CyanConnode, we operate at the SLA level at 99.5% plus. So we're well above that threshold that they put out there for the utilities to be able to build correctly and collect the cash. And as you know, within prepaid, it's really important because the consumers are paying the money upfront and what guarantees that the electricity will be there when you want it. Part of the process as well that's been going on in the last number of months is that have come out with a process called empanelment. And this empanelment is in panel, the AMI service providers, that's the advanced meter and infrastructure service providers. These are the big infrastructure funds now that are coming into bid directly to the utilities for these large contracts and anything from a contract might be 1 million to 6 million units, et cetera. So there's sort of 30-plus companies now that have gone through this process, and we've been part of many of those to show that there's a full end-to-end solution that can be delivered and there's a tick in the box to those AMI service providers before they actually even get into the tender stages. And the tender stages then -- there's a prequalification that happens -- there's a technical design that happens, demonstrations that happen of the equipment. And then there's a commercial and then there's the award up to the lowest financial bidder for getting to what they call the L1, the Level 1 award of contract. And we're involved in many of these. And that's why -- well, this program really only kicked off when the Prime Minister Modi kicked it off in August this year. And also the empanelment has taken a little bit longer to do. And in the main, most of them have done. But I think it will be a continuous program as other players come in, they'll go through an empanelment process before they're allowed to bid for these contracts. Not only have -- we've done that in the time, but for the market as well, we went to Shimla in the HP region and proven the long-range radios. So instead of us around about 1 kilometer though, it's 9.5 kilometers and the engineers have been out there, proven it climbed up the mountains and got that sort of range, which is excellent really from a performance point of view, and we'll bring in a lot more remote areas into the smart metering program. So hopefully, Paul, that gives you an idea of that program there. And look, it's not just about either -- it's not all about India. There's other places of world we're working in apart from the U.K., apart from Sweden, Thailand, we have spoken about it in the past. But the real one that's coming on is UAE, where we're working both in Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, and that's really going well. We have won sort of $9 million of contracts there this year, and most of that will be deployed by March. So you can see with what's happening in India, what's happening in the UAE, for instance. This is where we're confident about hitting the numbers that we put -- the analysts have put out in the market at GBP 9.5 million -- sorry, GBP 12.5 billion because of that and because of the other areas that work in that. And we are involved in Africa, and we're also looking to other areas of the world that's listed here to implements and win new contracts.

That was going to be my next question, actually, John, you able a great management team. You've delivered these projects, large-scale deployments and with global partners. You've got that footprint you have now -- you touched on some of those areas where you are going to expand. Is there any area in particular that you're really focusing on?

Well, yes, I mean, what's really important that in the last number of months, the last 6 months or so, we're really putting -- place key -- additional key management personnel with the right skills, the right experience and right knowledge. And that's what we've been doing both in the U.K. and in India. And we continue to recruit as well. all the way through from the finance to engineering to sales. And as you know -- well, I should say, with sales, we use the partner's sales machines to go to market. As you know, we go through third parties, as I mentioned at the beginning of this. And it's really important that we have all of that to ensure that we can take on board what we won, what we plan to win and ensure that we've got the growth of the company. And as Heather mentioned as well that it's not -- the cost isn't exponential to the revenue. I mean until sort of the beginning of this financial year of our cost base, was the same since 2018 to now, yet our revenues went from -- in '18, something like GBP 1 million to in excess of GBP 10 million, but the costs stayed the same. And as Heather mentioned, yes, there's some costs that will go up, et cetera, in different areas because we're recruiting people, but that's because we know we're winning more orders. And the good thing about it is to create in these other countries like the UAE, we just got to have more people to deliver those projects. It's as simple as that really.

It's fantastic. John. And Heather, I think one area I'd like to touch on with you, really. In 2021, you received the London Stock Exchange Green Economy mark. Can you explain a little bit more about this award, what it means, what it means for the company and how it positions you.

Yes, I think that this is something -- it's an area that's becoming more and more important. Everybody knows the importance of making sure that we sort of try to meet the goals of the green economy mark is for funds that generate 50% or more of their total annual revenues from products and services that contribute to the global green economy. And obviously, and they went through quite a detailed process of looking at us technology, what we have rolled out. And I'd say, it's great that we were awarded this -- just on the next slide, there's some information just around what the savings are that are being made, in particular in India, from the units, the 1.1 million that are rolled out in India at the moment using our technology. If you look at this number here, the INR 199,800,000. So that works out to being about GBP 2 million saving per year as a result of these initiatives, savings in CO2, savings in fuel, all sorts of savings at the utilities that you're seeing. And obviously, this technology is then helping contribute to the goals of India and as we roll out in other countries to their goals, too.

That's fantastic. In summary, I guess, what are the key priorities and points for shareholders to look out for over the coming year? Also, do you have any thoughts on the share of the Indian smart meter market that you might be able to capture and what could that be or in module and additional services and software revenue going forward. So quite a few things at the end there, but just as a bit of a summary, please.

Yes. Absolutely. Look, I mean, the government of India are very ambitious and rolling out and that giving orders for the 250 million smart prepaid meters in the next 2 years, they've proven that by 75 million now actively being tendered. And right now, our partners at CyanConnode partners have won as the L1 status, that is 25 -- in excess of 25 million meters. And if we were to win 100% of that, not saying we will, by the way, got to be great if we did, wouldn't it, with all of that. It's equating to GBP 360 million revenue to CyanConnode. And if you look at where are we today? Well, we have the installed base that's already there, we're 25% of the market in India. Since April this year, we're actually at 27% in terms of volume of winning the business. And if you take 27% of the 25 million, that equates to about GBP 100 million in revenue. And again, I'm not saying we're going to win all of that. But if we only win part of that 25 million, the 25 million, if we only win the 27%, that's still an awful lot of units and great revenue for us. So really, we're very confident now that the real orders are coming, the avalanche, if you like, is coming. And we see it as a bright future for continued growth. In the last 3 years, we had year-on-year revenue growth, and we continue to do that and well into the next year is coming as we predicted and we see the volumes coming along and what we can deliver. And of course, it's not only, as I say, just in India, we've got backup both in Thailand and the MENA region that I talked about in the Middle East as well. So really good outlook for us. And that's why we're working 8 days a week at the moment. I mean people working long hours in India and the U.K. doing a great job because there's an awful lot with the empanelment, the demos that we've been doing and then the tenders that would be going out and tendering for and then, of course, getting down to contract stages. You have to understand that each tender, we may have multiple partners that's bidding. So we may have 3 or 4 partners all bid in for a tender. And of course, that means we've got to do 3 or 4 different credentials, different criteria for each one of those bidding. So it's multiple amount of work that we all have to do to get through to the end goal and make sure that with the right partner, is going to win and make sure that between us all, we can deliver and collect the revenues and ensure that people are delighted in the utilities and the performance that CyanConnode gives.

That's great. Thanks, John. A lot going on by the sense for next year, which is a great stuff. A few other questions. I know some that you've had in and we've touched on some of the submitted question you've had some of the live ones as well. What is it the difference CyanConnode proposition versus a competing solution when you're tendering, why are you better than the competition? I guess something that you come up against all the time.

Yes. So I think the real key is, look, we've been -- our credentials are really first class. We are #1 in India in terms of capabilities. We've been there in excess of 10 years, so we're showing that we can be there when we've just got a few orders, and we can see that we're going to be there for the next 10 years. And that's really important that our customers look for is longevity and ensuring that we're there for the long term because these contracts now have been awarded for 10 years. So they want to make sure that with a company that can perform that deliver know what they're doing. Look, we've deployed 1.3 million units to date. We've got orders since April, another 1.3 million that we're heavily involved in now and rolling out right now. That's why we've got the orders. We don't need any new orders to meet the GBP 12.5 million revenue this year. So we're actively deploying and executed against those contracts. And that's what they're looking for is a quality product that delivers, as I said earlier, on a couple of times, 99.5% performance, and that's what we do. So we always go the extra mile in the end-to-end solution. So if oracle-based systems need some extra tweaking on the software from the billing platform, we have real clever people that -- technology people that can do that and actually help our partners tweak whatever they need to tweak. We help the meter manufacturers to make their dumb meters smart and we make sure the end-to-end solution is there so we could all get paid. So going the extra mile is something that we do and proud of within CyanConnode.

That's great. Thanks, John. A question as well we've got here. Sometimes, I think people can lose sight of it. And if someone who doesn't know the company well with the entry, would you explain to me why it is the solution you provide is needed. And again, I guess that's pulling it right back to basics, but sometimes these things are great to understand what is the basis to how you actually grow your business.

Well, we've all seen the extra costs there coming in the electricity going up just in the U.K., et cetera. And really these controls need to be put in place to ensure we're not wasting the electricity, that electricity has put their at the right time for when people want it. And part of that, I mean, to give you an example, in India, look, they generate electricity, they distribute some of the electricity but they don't collect the cash. And in India particular, they lose $32 billion a year, every year they lose through theft and the inefficiencies of the infrastructure in the utilities. That's a huge amount of money, and they have to fix that to grow the GDP of the country. So electricity is vital at every country, including the U.K. So you need to know who's spending -- who's burning electricity when -- are they paying for it? Where else should they build out the infrastructure to put this? So it's really important that they have the right sort of infrastructure and the right platform to be able to do and know who's using the electricity. So it's kind of important really. I mean when you look at what they want to do with India as well, well, the whole world in terms of -- if you look at the power industry, it's a bit like the telecommunications industry. So we're going from analog world in the power industry, the utility industry to a digital world. We're going to rule -- use and rule by sort of technology in terms of measuring the performance of electricity going through the net-net so is people got solar panels, et cetera, that's going to feed into the network. You've got to net that off the bill that people are using, et cetera, you got to have the right tools to do that. So it's moving them to making the utilities because it's prepaid, profitable. So they get money upfront before they have to spend that money in the wholesale markets. Now, they're profitable. And in India, they then want to get and sell off those assets to the private industry, the same as what happened in the U.K. in this number of years behind where we are, but that's their plan. So it's going analog digital, profitability and then selling off those assets to move to even greater things within those power industry utilities.

That's great. Thanks, John. Just we're going through that. And I get a technology question, you're at the forefront of this industry, I guess. So what could see procedural solutions as an alternative? Could you become obsolete as technology moves on? How do you keep up with that whole development, which we all know is moving at such a rapid pace.

Always. There -- I've been in the industry sort of 40 years now. So I've seen a lot of change from the world of no mobiles to where we are now with the mobile as big -- as powerful as stand-alone mainframe computer holding your hand on these smartphones. So we're constantly looking at innovation and that's what we pride ourselves on. When I first arrived, we're looking at a proprietary system. Now we've got the IPv6 6LoWpan. Now we look at a platform that not only does RF mesh but cellular and PLC, et cetera. we look at being able to put a canopy out there into the network. We're agnostic in terms of any meter manufacturer and really getting agnostic in terms of whatever communications is out there. So we're keeping up to date all the time. I mentioned long-range radio that we're looking at. I look at what we call in-meter gateway, so you can put the gateway instead of being on an external pole all that technology sits inside the meter, still does the same job as a gateway, but it's inside a meter. What does that offer, better security, cost opportunity as well to keep the margins where they should be. So we constantly look at that all the time. And give you an example, if only we'd as Cyan were known and being involved in the U.K. market. We won the contract through Connode when we acquired them in 2016, and that's why we're known as CyanConnode. But in the U.K. I wouldn't have done it this way, how it has been done. It's cost in all of us in the U.K., round about GBP 13 billion to rollout of smart meter in the U.K. Well, guess what's going to happen here now they've rolled it out on 2G and 3G and the move -- they want to upgrade to 4G, not 5G, 4G, and they're going to go back to the government and ask for GBP 4.5 billion more to upgrade to 4G. And that means going to have to disrupt all the meters that are already being put out there to upgrade them in the homes as well as this extra cost. Now if would have done the hybrid where the local loop could have been RF mesh and the backhaul from the gateway would have been cellular, all we needed to do was upgraded the gateways. No disruption to anybody in the house and nowhere near that cost because we worked it out that instead of it costing GBP 17.5 billion in the end for the U.K. rollout, just to 4G, remember, when they go to 5G and extra cost 6G, 7G, we could have done the whole country for about $4.5 billion all in. But there we go. That's another story as I've written to people in the government to explain this to them. Yes. So we're always looking, really, Paul, at innovation and keeping as much as we can ahead of the game.

That's great, John. I think you touched on this the question we've got here, how much operational leverage just the company had you talked about your cost base really increasing over quite a long period of time, yet the revenue has driven through. There should be significant profit upside given that fixed cost as and when new business comes through. Can you just touch a bit and perhaps Heather as well just on the operational gearing of where that sits within the business?

Yes, I'll give you over to Heather for that one, yes.

Yes. I mean that is quite true that yes, I mean, our cost base is not going to grow exponentially, but there may be a little bit of growth as I said before, recruitment that needs to happen, wages going up a bit and inflation. But if we look at the opportunities and the size of the opportunities and the revenue coming in from them, they were far way the increase in costs. So yes, there will definitely be a significant profit upside.

Fantastic. And the last one here, we have obviously got a lot that we've had coming through today's meeting. And I know for 40 minutes. So we have gone over that. But if you've got time, we'll carry on and we'll get through as many as we can. Of course, you can review these post-event were published responses where appropriate to do so. But final one here on the screen is how fundamental is your solution to the modernization of some cities. Obviously, we're just talking about the infrastructure across the upgrading, future-proofing, I guess.

Yes. And I think, Paul, just to add to that, what we've put out there is under RF mesh is a radio canopy, which can hook up many things in the city. So really moving to a smart city, been able to get all the data from point A to point B that whether it's a utility or is someone else that wants to get data from within the city. So as I said, moving electricity, gas, water, street light TV charges whatever is out there, that not only for utilities but for other -- also other companies that really want to be part of the smart city movement.

That's great. That's great. Thank you. So let's just go into some of the questions we've got throughout today's meeting, and there are quite [indiscernible] what to do, why don't we spot buy cameras that we're a bit bigger. The first one, [indiscernible]. Why does the share price appear to fall after declaring positive news? And what is required to achieve the true value of the company? I'm personally dumbfounded with the lack of reality considering the huge potential opportunities for the company.

Yes. I guess -- I mean, look, we don't control the share price. I mean there's other sort of dynamics that occur in the market, and we're outside of that. I mean we have day traders and quite rightly, they want to make 20% buying and selling. I mean we can't do anything about that. That's their life and business. But at the end of the day, we're doing what we're doing to show to shareholders, to investors, look, there's a big opportunity here. How many companies now can actually show you this sort of potential growth and that's what this presentation has been all about it is. And this is what we've been doing. We've had numerous conversations today with different brokers, et cetera, and analysts explaining to what we're doing and we're going to continue that to the Christmas period and then in the new year, we're doing further conversations with people just to get the message out really of what is the potential. And I know it's difficult for a number of people in the U.K. we're doing a lot of business in overseas markets. You're looking at India, you're looking at Thailand, you're looking at the Middle East. You're looking to Africa, potentially Bangladesh, Indonesia, et cetera. People will be saying, what are they doing IT? What is this all about? And sometimes it's just getting the message over and sometimes we're not that clear. And then when we go so far, people ask further questions quite rightly, just for that understanding. So we are, I suppose, quite a complex business in the way of technology. But at the end of the day, it's simple, we're out there to win business, get revenue, get profits. And obviously, that will then shown in the share price.

That's great. And you touched on you're seeing brokers and analysts, I've got a question here. So can you please to point to any usual recent analyst reports covering CyanConnode.

Well, even today, there's been a couple of outsiders. So there's one from Arden partners that come out with -- an analyst has come out there. Also, Cenkos has brought out a note as well. we have Hardman that covers us. And then there's other that come out independently as well. So those are the 3 that I can mention today that's actively [indiscernible] on us.