Demant A/S (DEMANT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our conference call following the release of our interim management statement for Q1 2025 after market closed yesterday. For the call today, it's business as usual, and we plan to run through the presentation followed by a Q&A session. The presentation should now be available on our website. As per usual, we plan for the call to last no more than 1 hour in total, including the Q&A session. On the call today, we have Soren Nielsen, our President and CEO; Rene Schneider, our CFO; and myself, Gustav Hoegh from the IR team. That's it for the practical element. And now over to you, Soren.

Yes. Thank you very much, Gustav, and welcome, everybody. I will today take you through business highlights and key financial takeaways, a quick review of the business area, and we will take you through the outlook as well and then get to Q&A. Business highlights in first quarter. We have seen a negative development in the global hearing aid market coming from increased macroeconomic uncertainties, most importantly in the U.S. market. And this is different than our original expectation. So I'm sure you have already seen, we lower our full year guidance for market growth. I think this is number one key takeaway. As expected, hearing aids was impacted by a strong comparison base, strong introduction last year as well as the changed strategy in managed care and the following loss of share there, but below expectations solely due to the soft market development. Hearing Care continued to deliver solid organic growth well above the market growth rate, and we continue to consolidate distribution in line with our strategy and the underlying consolidation taking place in the market. The market for diagnostic instruments continues to be soft, impacting growth, although we estimate we have maintained our share in the period. Key financial takeaways. The group realized organic growth of 0%. This is below expectations, but it is due to the lower-than-expected growth in the global hearing aid market in the first quarter. Adjusting for this market slowdown, we find the underlying performance in line with expectations. Gross margin declined as expected due to the very strong performance in the hearing aid side last year, but also slightly lower than anticipated as the negative U.S. market have caused a change in our mix across geographies that naturally leads to a following ASP decline for our portfolio, our hearing aid sales, just like we have seen in the global market. OpEx is -- saw a slight organic growth following the cost-saving effort in second half last year. which has -- acquisition has naturally added to growth, but also here in line with expectations. EBIT following the slowdown in the global market was below expectations. In addition, we have seen exchange rate also have a slightly negative impact on the profitability on EBIT. We continue to see very strong cash flow from operations and -- where we are both higher than last year and supported by working capital development. The change in the estimate for the global hearing aid market of 2%, 1:1 translates into a revised outlook for our organic growth, previously 3% to 7%, now 1% to 5%. The loss of profitability from this reduced organic growth and the negative development in currencies since February and then a little bit on tariffs lead to a downward [indiscernible] an ambition for share buyback unchanged above DKK 1.5 billion. We'll get back to the various growth rates. But to the right, you can see organic growth. And you can see Hearing Aids external, minus 4%. However, with a strong growth in own retail or Hearing Care and in that growing share of wallet, then a higher growth rate internal and leading to a total growth of minus 1%. Hearing Care, 4%; Diagnostic flat; and then all in all, 3% from acquisitions coming in both in Hearing Aids, but of course, primarily in Hearing Care. A few more details on the business areas, starting with the hearing aid market in first quarter, you see the table with the statistics where we estimate that Europe in general, have grown 4% against last year's 3%. North America, U.S., Canada have grown minus 3% against the 6% last year. But U.S. commercial is where the big deviations to expectation is. It has declined 5% compared to first quarter last year and compared to a full year growth of 7% last year. Rest of the World estimated Q1 4% against the full year 3% last year. All in all, 2% so far in the year against our normal expectation of 4% to 6%. I know you could argue there's a little bit in the comparison base, but still this is below our expectations. And again, the development in the U.S. commercial market is significantly below expectations. We do expect some recovery during the year, but it cannot fully close the gap. The ASP globally is slightly negative, where we originally guided for flat. This is purely related to the change in mix that the development for the full year is expected to do and for the first quarter, of course, more dramatic when U.S. is -- commercial is down 5%. So Europe, the growth there was driven by NHS, also good growth in Germany. France was slightly positive, in line with expectations. We still and remain to have strong expectations for the full year; however, knew that it will be a soft start since we have to get clients into the funnel and have them out in trial before they can actually be invoiced. Again, U.S. commercial down across the various channels, private pay and managed care. The growth in VA remains slightly negative. This is in line with what we saw last year and still mainly attributed to capacity constraints of various kinds. We saw solid growth in Canada. Rest of the World, slightly positive in both Japan and China and good development in a number of emerging markets. So 2% in the first quarter and somewhat -- soft start to the year was expected, and we have seen that. This was based by -- or the reason for that was the very high comparison base driven by the Oticon Intent launch last year in February and the following market share loss in managed care in second quarter last year, so the last quarter with full strong comps in managed care sales; however, still below expectations due to the negative development in the U.S. commercial market. In terms of external sales, unit growth was flattish, while the market development in U.S. resulted in negative development in ASP. But again, this attributes purely to geography mix changes with larger growth rates in Rest of the World than in North America. Europe, solid performance in Europe, slightly positive growth in France following the market development. Negative growth in U.K., below market growth rate as we still have a weak position in what's called [ AQP, ] which is private fitting of government NHS instruments, something we work on improving our position in, but currently cannot follow up with the increased amount of people that seek this route. North America, positive growth and market share gains in VA, negative growth in U.S. commercial due to loss of share in managed care in Q2 '24 and of course, also the comp base as we spoke to. Strong growth in Asia with solid growth in China due to market share gains on the wholesale side, very strong growth in Japan and solid growth in Australia. Hearing Care, first quarter, solid performance, outgrowing the market. Again, 4% organic growth, obviously above the underlying market growth. We saw very strong performance in Canada, in Germany and several of our midsized markets. Solid performance in U.S. relative to the weak market. We continue to see a, you would say, an improved mix between instruments that have no co-funding from managed care and those that have, and this benefits the business. Continued contribution from acquisitions in the period, primarily in Germany, Denmark and Italy. all countries where we have done significant acquisitions within the last quarters and therefore, with a good strong effect in the first quarter. Growth mainly driven by units with a slight ASP tailwind from positive product mix as well as geography changes. Slightly positive growth in France, as I said, and there are continued strong expectations for sales and growth in the coming quarters as we expect the market to pick up and us capturing a good strong share in that. Diagnostic in the first quarter continued the headwinds from soft market developments in general and the market remains soft. We estimate that it was flat in the period. We estimate that we have maintained our share as we have also been flat. Our service and consumable business continued to perform well in the geographies more specifically, strong growth in U.K. and France. Positive growth in U.S., negative in Canada due to very strong comps and then negative growth in China due to continued access issues to public markets due to insufficient product portfolio, which is made in China, but again, something we work to improve. Good growth in several emerging markets in the diagnostic business as well. So coming back to outlook and market estimations. Of course, the world is uncertain. This is our best estimate. It is based on a core assumption of recovery in the hearing aid market. We see this as a postponement either of your buying a first hearing aid or a renewal especially in U.S. driven by increased consumer uncertainty. We expect this uncertainty to improve and therefore, people spending more again. The global hearing aid market, as I said, saw a 2% unit growth in Q1, all coming from U.S. On the full year basis, we revised this to a 3% to 5% growth, meaning 1 percentage point down, which, of course, implies an improvement during the year. We don't know the exact timing, and it can go a little bit up month-to-month, but the trend is an upward positive development. It cannot fully close the gap. That's our assumption, and therefore, the 3% to 5%. On the ASP [indiscernible] minus 1%. Well, this follows the revised unit growth expectations across regions and not isolated any changes like-for-like pricing as such. So all in all, a revised outlook from previously 4% to 6% in value to now 2% to 4%, meaning a lowering of 2 percentage points in the overall growth for the market. And this is, of course, what we have carried on in our own organic growth expectation, as I said. Currency have also worked a little bit against us, and I will give the word just shortly to Rene to elaborate a little bit further on the details in that.

Yes. Thank you, Soren. And yes, it has been an unusual development in the past month, and we will here try to, let's say, elaborate somewhat on the impact on Demant and also our expectations. But since our publication of the original outlook on 6th of February, we have seen a significant depreciation of almost all currencies against the euro and thus also against the Danish kroner. And if I could draw your attention to the table on the top right-hand side, you will see how some of the main currencies that we are exposed to have changed since our previous outlook and thus what we have incorporated into our expectations for the full year since our expectations are already -- always based on the current sort of exchange spot rate. But you would see major currencies like U.S. dollar, Canadian dollar, Australia [indiscernible] now incorporated into the full year expectations. These are currencies that we hedge actively. And then you see also some other main currencies like the Chinese yen, Brazilian real and Turkish lira also being down significantly. These are currencies where we do not hedge because the cost of doing that is kind of prohibitive. This changed currency environment translates into a significant change in top line expectations from currency. where we previously expected a plus 1% growth on the top line from currency, we now expect minus 2%, both rounded numbers. So all in all, this is on the revenue side, a change negatively of more than DKK 800 million. Despite the fact that we hedge, this does give an impact to the EBIT side. When we look at the non-hedged currencies where there is a big drop-through, we estimate the impact to be DKK 50 million, whereas on the hedged currencies, meaning our -- all our main currencies, the impact is "only DKK 75 million" since we have a quite significant hedging gain that hits the P&L. And then in addition, we have other natural hedges that you will see positively in the cash flow statement under investments that will also be, you can say, less expensive in DKK. So all in all, this gives us a -- with the current exchange rates, a negative impact of DKK 125 million compared to our original outlook. I think that's it on currencies.

Yes. Thanks a lot, Rene. And if we then try to summarize it all of the rationale behind changing the profit outlook and the organic growth outlook for the full year. I think I have iterated enough on the organic growth, we basically lower it exactly with our lowered expectation for the full year value growth in the market. On the EBIT, in round numbers, the lowering of growth assumption leads to a minus DKK 250 million EBIT. Rene just shared the rationale for the minus DKK 125 million on exchange rate. And then we have a minor tariff impact from Diagnostics, which for the group is immaterial, but still yet different than what we assumed in February. So all in all, these 3 factors is purely the reason for lowering the EBIT guidance with DKK 400 million. The DKK 4.1 billion to DKK 4.5 billion entails the same list of potential up and downs and gains and wins and losses and the same uncertainty and the performance we have seen in the first quarter is within that framework, not more to the up than to the down. There are different things that are slightly different. That's always the case, but we are still in line with original plans. And therefore, summarizing the outlook assumptions, the changed market we have iterated on, we still expect but not changed the French market to grow in the high single digits and with the flat or slightly positive development so far in the first quarter, this entails a significant uplift to growth in France, and we have good indicators for that. So we maintain and reiterate that assumption. The discontinued business being communication as well as the bone-anchored performed in line with expectation, and this is why we maintain our full year expectation for net profit of DKK 0 million to DKK 50 million and no changes to that either. We expect to allocate cash to bolt-on acquisitions in a slightly higher than normal level due to acquisition level, pipeline, et cetera. And this is what have -- with what have happened so far this year, no changes to the expectation for the year, but we have seen a good piece materialize already. We expect currency changes. Again, Rene went through that. Most of it is still ahead of us and reflects a change that have happened. We don't know if it continues. But if the prices continue as -- or exchange rate continues as they are today, then this will be the impact. We have no visibility to any further changes in tariffs that should impact the group. And that's why we, at current state, iterate or not iterate, we state the DKK 25 million in Diagnostic as the expected tariff impact for the full year. So summarizing outlook, 1% to 5% organic growth, EBIT DKK 4.1 billion to DKK 4.5 billion, more than DKK 1.5 billion share buyback. Acquisition remains 2%, revenue coming in from that, that's confirmed. FX growth changed from plus 1% on the top line to now minus 2% on the top line, unchanged tax rate, unchanged profit from discontinued operation, and we still expect to end our gearing ratio in -- well within the medium to long-term target of 2% to 2.5%. So with that, over to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Giang Nguyen with Citi.

I have 2, please. The first one is, I want to ask you about the managed care headwind to hearing aids wholesale in the quarter and whether you can talk to expectations for the rest of the year with regard to this topic? And the second question is if you could please provide any color on pricing of the new VA contract, even ballpark figures? And can you also confirm whether Oticon is included in the new category or not?

Yes. Thank you very much for the 2 questions. Q1 developed exactly as expected. We lost share, significant share Q2 last year. This is what we have seen in the first quarter. So no fundamental change to what we have seen during the fall of last year on a run rate perspective. It is true we have expanded our offering of products into one of the players in that field. And based on that, we expect a gradual increase in share during the year or for the rest of the year as we pass the full [indiscernible] share a lot of details, but pricing have been adjusted as part of renewing contracts. It will come out eventually how it is. But I can confirm that we are present in all categories that VA have offered and think we have a competitive offering in the various categories.

I can add that you asked about the managed care headwind on hearing aid in the first quarter. It is around the 3%, which we have communicated prior -- on wholesale, exactly.

Your next question comes from Maja Stephanie Pataki with Kepler Cheuvreu.

Two questions from my side as well. So, maybe Q1 surprisingly soft, should be improving throughout the year. Can you talk a bit about if there have been any pricing initiatives taken by you or your competitors that have been making the market even more challenging? That would be question number one. And then the second question relates to the French market. We've seen some headlines or some news that there is a debate in France to lower the contribution on hearing aids going forward. Any thoughts about how this regulation could change and what the time frame for that could be?

Yes. Thank you very much. No, I don't think we have seen anything in particular. A lot of the U.S. market pricing is not a spot market, whether it's VA or it's managed care contracts or it's large players. There is, of course, always a competitive situation in the field, but there's also been new technology out that's obviously pushing for better pricing. So the mix tends to compensate. That's basically our communication why we said we expect the market normally to have a flat pricing development and what we have seen evidence for in the past many years. And I think that's still intact. So no significant worsening or change there. The French market, there is various discussions going on. I don't know them in such detail that I can speak to any potential timing or so on. I think that's highly uncertain and unclear at the moment. A very general comment is that markets with very high reimbursement often ends in my opinion, in a little bit of all regulation. So we are not very concerned about changes long term. It's good for patients to have free choice. So there is a good opportunity to allow for additional funding from the user, driving a better product mix. So in general, we like a free and open market where consumer choice is still an option.

Understood. Maybe quickly a follow-up, if I may. On France, you're indicating early signs of an acceleration and you still stick to your high single-digit growth for the year. Could you confirm this is on unit terms? What are you expecting from an ASP perspective?

Absolutely correct, Maja. It's in units. And we do assume that many of the clients coming in from renewal have a free-to-client category type of products. We have -- we saw a big share of those in the first year, then we saw less of them in the following years because that's where the market contracted. So that's also where we expect the expansion. So yes, the ASP will, for that reason, go down. But again, it's a pure and natural mix following, you would say, the installed base pattern, will we try to -- now people have tried a hearing aid and maybe their hearing loss have grown to argue for buying a better product with co-payment back to my comment before. Yes, absolutely. But still, the assumption is it will be with a lower ASP than we saw in comparison last year in France. Yes. Operator, we can't hear anything. I don't know if there's any questions in line or whether we lost the line. Hello, operator? It seems like we have lost the operator. Do we have a question coming up?

This is the operator. And you ready for the next question?

Yes.

Our next question will come from Andjela Bozinovic from BNP Paribas Exane.

I have 2 as well. First one on the guidance. Can you give us any indication on your market growth assumptions by region? Specifically, if you anticipate a global market growth of 3% to 5% in units and France high single digits. What are other countries that are driving the slowdown? And any insight on the U.S. commercial market assumptions for the rest of the year? And the second one on NHS. Can you give us any color on the loss of market share in the U.K.? And how should we think about the share going forward? Was this market share loss anticipated? Is it a change in legislation or anything similar?

Yes. Thank you very much. It's, of course, if you look at a single market, then each market have a big uncertainty than when you add them all together because it's structural. So no -- except for the U.S. where we have started obviously, very different than core assumptions. That's also where we, for the remainder of the year, see the main drag. Could there be other markets? We can see there are markets that hanging a little soft compared to the 4% to 6%. Will they stay there or will they come back up? Very difficult to say. That's why we normally say 4% to 6%. France is, of course, an obvious better than average. And other than that, I don't have eye of sight to anybody that are particularly good or particularly bad. So see it as a mixed basket with France in the positive end and U.S. in the assumed recovery normalization end, but not able to close the full year gap. And on NHS, the loss of share, yes, it's all in the government business, meaning hearing aids paid where both the service and the product is paid by the National Health Service. Most of them are fitted at government-driven clinics in hospitals, but a growing share is fitted by private operators that get a fitting fee and buy and it is like hearing aids to fit the clients. This channel is growing. Our position in that channel is not as strong as it is in the hospital part of the business, where we are very strong. And therefore, we lose our total share when that private fitted channel grows at a higher pace. We are working to strengthen our position in that channel. But in the quarter past, we lost out there. I hope that helps.

Your next question comes from...

I think we lost the operator again.

It seems like we lost the operator again.

Carsten, if you can hear us, please go ahead.

All right. The conference now been reconnected...

All right. Can you hear anything right now? Noise, right now?

But with a bit of echo.

Okay. I hear you. You sound like you are far, far away.

And you sound like you stand in a railroad station...

Somebody is talking in the background, I think I cannot hear anything. I can try to ask my question and then we can see. All right. For the United managed care contract here, there seems to be a big contract to [indiscernible] when comparing to where you were before the exit in 2024, how much back in managed care are you now? How much more do you need to win back or get back on in order to say that you're fully back? And also, I had expected you would enter with the Bernafon and not the Oticon brand. So why did you decide to offer the Absolute Premium brand to managed care here?

Yes. Thank you very much for the question. I hope you can hear my answer. We have had contract...

This is the operator. We will just try to get that line reconnected.

Can you hear me?

I still hear you, but there's an echo...

I assume we are back and you can all hear me. I have your question here. And it was all related to United and contract back and reentering with Oticon and why not Bernafon? I will iterate. First of all, important 30,000 feet. We have contracts with basically all players in the managed care sector. These contracts contain several subsegments, and it's quite detailed what are you in and what are you out of. The summary of it all is we have expanded our portfolio of products offered on parts of the managed care administrated under United. And this will assume leading to growing market share during the year. It will not be back to where we came from for various reasons, but it will lift our share from where we are now. That's the assumption. It cannot fully be predicted in volume, how the market reacts to it and the different channels that fit them, but we will not be fully back. We are still trying to pursue our strategy of a broader utilization of our brands in the group, but it has been important for us to reenter with Oticon in parts of United to be able to grow our share in the managed care channel.

Your next question comes from Susannah Ludwig with Bernstein.

I have 2, please. First, I guess, you're just a bit more conservative than peers on the outlook for the global market, which seems to come from a different view on the U.S. recovery. Maybe could you talk a little bit about how the U.S. market performed in April and so far in the start of May and sort of what you're extrapolating for the rest of the year and whether you see any sort of pent-up demand from users who didn't see hearing aids in Q1? And then second, just on your retail business, it's obviously performed well over the past several quarters, and you seem to have been outperforming in the U.S. So just wondering to what extent has sort of exiting managed care and sort of taking a smaller role in managed care in the U.S. played apart in the better performance versus the market?

Yes. Thank you for your questions. You can say, yes, we might be a little more pessimistic than some of our competitors. Maybe we also started a little more optimistic. One difference is the ASP assumption. And it's not to communicate we believe prices are going down. We just say there is a following consequence of a different geography mix. Specifically speaking to the U.S. commercial market, we have no anticipation VA will change fundamentally. So the commercial market, minus 5% [indiscernible] already seen and timing [indiscernible] new introductions this year. Yes, we have seen that trend and believe in it. It's part of why we have come to this conclusion that this is our new estimate. That is also based on what we have seen in April. I don't think any of us have a very, very bright crystal ball for the development of the U.S. market. So it is primarily related to the uncertainty centered around consumer sentiment in U.S. And this is our best estimate. It is implying quite a good improvement of the run rate, but not an ability to fully compensate. And you can say that's the assumption. And then on the retail performance, yes, sorry. It is definitely part of it that we have seen an improved mix from managed care where we receive a fitting fee and an income for a hearing aid versus a full sales that is part of driving the organic growth in Hearing Care.

Your next question comes from Martin Parkhoi with SEB.

Just a question on the midterm and long-term targets. Of course, you raised the market expectations back at the CMD in March, and that was after a very strong year for the market with huge commercial growth in U.S. If you should set the targets for the market for the next 3 to 5 years now, would it still then be the same? Or are you maybe a little bit cautious also on the mid- to long-term ASP development? And then the second question is also based on your own ambitions to see organic growth to 6% to 8% for Demant that has, of course, been a little bit challenging last year and this year with both the slowdown this year as you expect on Hearing Healthcare, but also Diagnostics, which is also part of, of course, the growth business is how far we are away for you to return to that midterm growth again? And then just a final question. Are you satisfied with the R&D efficiency in Demant? Do you believe that your -- the number of products and form factors stuff like is coming at the speed that you actually like it to come?

Thank you very much, Martin. Overall, yes, we are still firm in our mid- to long-term guidance and expectation for growth for Demant. I think with the strategy we have, which we also went through on the Capital Market Day, fueling innovation, continue to participate in consolidation, adding new markets, et cetera, this is definitely our target and our ambition. It entails winning share, and it also is based on this core assumption of a value growth of 4% to 6% and then taking share in that market. And that's still intact. We have had, yes, a headwind last year, which was maybe more coming from our own activities this year, does reflect that we have not seen the market development we anticipated. And that's, of course, an assumption behind such a mid- to long-term outlook. You also touched on the diagnostic. There's also no fundamental changes to the diagnostic in order for the global market to grow 4% to 6%, you would fundamentally also have to see a 4% to 6% expansion of the infrastructure, whether it's all the way up to screening and so on and down to the actual fittings. And there are many places in the world where infrastructure are being built. The main headwind for us apart from a little soft market these years is the access to the China market. And there's also no doubt that there is some level of correlation with the size we have of our own ability to bring out new products that push a little harder for renewal or incentivize a little harder for renewal. And there, we have some of our most important products are aging, and there's no doubt we have a lot of focus on bringing out new products over the coming years, which I'm sure will fuel growth. So I think that's the -- that together with China is a key driver for Diagnostic. R&D efficiency is always a difficult one to measure. But yes, I think we bring out many, many strong innovations. We have seen a very continuous flow of new products of very high quality 2020, 2023, 2024. If you look at some of the market research done in U.S., it confirms a leadership in audiological performance, sound quality. It also confirms a best-in-class in reliability and with that, the belief in the product robustness. We have seen a significant improvement, which is something we have focused a lot on in ease of use, including connectivity. And I think these are all important factors that's a testament to high efficiency. Remember, we are not the biggest, and therefore, you also have to look at capacity. There are players that spend in absolute money more than us. So yes, I think we have an effective R&D organization.

Your next question comes from Julien Ouaddour with Bank of America.

I have one, and sorry if you already answered to it. But I'm looking at the hearing aid business. So you reported minus 4% in Q1. The market was growing 2% volume, negative ASP. But if I understand correctly, you expect to catch up with the market growth for the full year, which means that you expect to deliver market share gains in the remaining 9 months. The question is, does it include the tailwind from the managed care for the remainder of the year? Or does it rely on the new product launch during this year?

Yes, you're absolutely right. The less good than market performance in Q1 does relate totally back to the loss of share Q2 last year in the managed care channel. As I just explained in another question, we will not fully recover that with the changes there. And all these things, ups and downs are within the list of things that could happen during the year and are part of our original guidance. So yes, it's all within the expectations. So is the upside in France, et cetera. All of it is gaining share as we move during the year and a stronger market growth in the remaining of the year than we have seen so far.

Okay. Okay. Perfect. I mean -- and you -- like you haven't mentioned maybe the launch of a lot of new platform at some point this year also to drive share gains?

Yes, we comment on new products when we have them and are ready to present them and can speak to the details of what they do.

Your next question comes from Martin Brenoe with Nordea.

I had some issues with the line. So sorry if this question has already been answered. But last year, when you pulled out of United, I think that you were quite vocal that this was something that the independents were very happy about and supported and you expected some market share gains in that segment. How has the reaction been now where you completely come back to United and even bring in the Oticon brand, which you were sure you could leave out instead you would have Bernafon in there. Just curious if you had any reactions on the independent side from this.

Yes. Thank you very much. It is, of course, something we have also discussed with the market, our customers in the market. And I think we all realized that we did not see the level of upside on the independent channel we had anticipated. Secondly, the consequence was stronger than anticipated for us in the managed care. It was never the intention to lose as much share. It was never the intention not to play in -- among all the major players in managed care. So yes, you could say it's a total reassessment of the situation where we have had to realize that in order to balance [indiscernible] of course, including pricing to optimize your total positioning. And it is assessing all these various parameters. And I would say, I think this is, again, also a shared view by a number of independents that it might not have given them as much as they thought as well. So this is our decision, and this is how our continued dialogue with specifically this customer have played out, and we now see how that goes into the market.

That concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over for any closing remarks.

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for joining us on the call this afternoon. We hope to see many of you on the road in the coming weeks. And if you have any follow-up questions before then, and especially in the light of the disturbance on the line today, please reach out to us directly after the call, and we'll do our best to help you out. Have a good day.