Deutsche Telekom AG (DTE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Ladies and gentlemen, I hereby open, this is Annual General Meeting of Deutsche Telekom AG. My name is Frank Appel, and according to the Articles of Incorporation, I assume the chairmanship. On behalf of the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management, I would like to welcome you, the shareholders and shareholder representatives, as well as representatives of the press and guests here in Bonn. If now and from now on, I use the German masculine form, this is merely for the sake of linguistic simplification. The German masculine form includes all genders, of course. We are very much pleased to welcome you again this year in-person here at the World Conference Center in Bonn. With the exception of Mrs. Schöttke, who is unfortunately unable to attend, all members of the Supervisory Board are present at this year's Annual General Meeting. The same side to the Board of Management. To my left, I welcome the notary, Dr. Christoph Neuhaus, who has been appointed to take the minutes of this Annual General Meeting. A few remarks regarding these premises. The main room of today's meeting is this room here, New York, including the gallery, which is accessible to you from the outside. We have lots of guests, therefore, probably we also have guests up there. Then you can also follow the meeting in sound and vision in the Nairobi room. Audio transmission is also available in the other areas of the meeting. The attendance area includes all rooms that are open to you after passing the so-called accreditation. In addition to the rooms already mentioned, the outdoor area accessible to you from the inside, as well as all other adjoining rooms and areas including the foyer as far as the exit or accreditation counter. This bigger registration counter is located here in the main room at the right-hand side from -- as I see it. And we also set up an information stand for you. This is located in the foyer on the entrance level. The shareholders and shareholder representatives present will be entered into the list of participants. It is kept electronically and updated on an ongoing basis. It can be viewed at the terminals. These can be found in the main room to the right of the speaker registration counter and in the Nairobi room. Convening of the Annual General Meeting, together with the complete agenda and the management's proposed resolutions regarding the announced agenda item was published in due form and time in the Federal Gazette on the 29th of February 2024. And it was also published throughout Europe on the same day. A printout of the announcement is available to the notary and can be viewed at the speaker registration counter. The notary will enclose the printout of the minutes as attachment. You can also view the documents relating to today's Annual General Meeting, which have been made available on the company's website in addition to the invitation and agenda since the convenience notice has been published at the speaker registration counter. The countermotions and election proposals to be made accessible have been published on the company's website with all the necessary information. Copies of these can be found over there at the speaker registration counter and at the information stand in the foyer on the entrance level. The company has not received any motions for additions to the agenda pursuant to Section 122 of the German Stock Corporation Act. Today's Annual General Meeting will be broadcast in full on the Internet in audio and video and will also be recorded for documentation purposes. These opening remarks as well as Mr. Hottges' speech and any further remarks by Mr. Hottges can be accessed later on the Internet. For the sake of order, I'd also like to point out that the Management Board is supported by employees in the back office when recording the questions and preparing the answers. In order to ensure that the questions are recorded correctly, a short audio recording will be made and then deleted. Please understand that it's not permitted to make your own video and audio recordings of the meeting. At the accreditation counters, you received an AGM card for today. You will need this to exercise your rights as shareholder at today's meeting, in particular, your voting rights. You'll also find all important information on this AGM card, regarding leaving this meeting early and issuing authorizations and instructions. I therefore refer you to those. The AGM card must also be presented at the exit control when leaving the Annual General Meeting early. We will conduct the debate on the items on the agenda in the form of a general debate. Any speaker may address any item on the agenda and ask questions. I should add a bit more to doing this morning, unfortunately. I apologize. Perhaps this extends the meeting a little bit, but I'll try not to make it too long, sorry. Okay. Shareholders who wish to make use of their right to speak and/or ask questions are kindly requested to present their AGM card at the speaker registration counter over there. There you will receive forms for requesting the floor, which you should complete and hand over to an employee at the speaker request desk. I would like to ask those shareholders who intend to speak to submit their request to speak as early as possible, starting now, so that we know how many people -- how many shareholders would like to speak. I will explain the voting procedure in detail immediately before the votes. As a precautionary measure, however, I would like to point out now that the votes can only be cast here in this main room. Only here in this main room. As an acoustic signal to indicate the start and end of voting, we once again have the gong at our disposal. Let me use it now for demonstration purposes only. Following these organizational remarks, we will now move on to the agenda. Agenda Item 1 is submissions to the Annual General Meeting, pursuant to Section 176, Paragraph 1, Sentence 1 of the German Stock Corporation Act. In particular, the annual financial statements, the consolidated financial statements, the summarized management and group management report, and the report of the Supervisory Board will be presented under this agenda item. These and other documents relating to today's Annual General Meeting are available on the company's website. You can also view them at the speaker registration counter. You will also find terminals in the foyer where you can view the online version of the annual report and the invitation and agenda for today's Annual General Meeting as a PDF file. So much for the organizational remarks. Ladies and gentlemen, I would now like to pass the floor to Mr. Hottges, who will present this report -- his report for the Management Board.

[Interpreted] Ladies and gentlemen, dear shareholders, welcome to our AGM 2024, and I'm pleased to see you all here. Now the same thing in English again. The first version was in German. Same statement in different languages. Ladies and gentlemen, I would rather like to welcome you personally, welcome to our Shareholders Meeting of Deutsche Telekom in 2024. What you just saw live was my avatar run by AI. So you can see me in countless versions, and it turns me into an encyclopedia, a dictionary, a contact partner for anyone in the virtual world. Everybody talks about artificial intelligence. AI is the talk of the town. But what does that actually mean for a company? And my showcase this morning is about the question, how Deutsche Telekom is practically using AI in its day-to-day operations. We have more than 400 use scenarios, application scenarios at Deutsche Telekom where we are using AI, one of which you just saw. I can basically communicate with all our employees in all languages on any subject. But what are we doing with AI practically? And why is it so important? Bitkom recently published a study, a survey of 600 companies asking how important AI is for their business models. 31% said that it has no significance. 69% of all companies surveyed said that this will lead to a fundamental change of all the business processes and workflows in their company. And I am part of that last group. I think that over the past few decades we haven't seen any other technology that changed our fundamental technologies in a way as AI will change it from now on. And that's why it's so important for us to actually deal with it in every detail. But how can we use it practically? And where and how are we using artificial intelligence today? I'm in my living room here today. I'm a Deutsche Telekom customer. And let's say that tonight, I want to watch a football match. Last night we had a draw with Arsenal in the football match. But yes, I am watching MagentaTV, we have the broadcast rights. But what happens? My Internet breaks down. What can I do? I can call up the hotline. And so I can try to talk to the Telekom agents directly. But we also have Ask Magenta, a chatbot, that you can use in this sort of situation. Let me show you how it works. So I'm using my telephone here, and I'm communicating with Ask Magenta. Hello and welcome to Ask Magenta, your digital assistant. A lot of my answers are given using artificial intelligence. I'm still making the odd mistake. Therefore, I would ask that you double check on any important information. Now on your questions, please give me your question in a short sentence. My Internet broke down. Well, first of all, we need to make sure that the problem is not a problem with your line. Now I have the customer data for your line here. Is this the line that we are talking about? Yes. Okay. I'm trying to find a solution to your problem. Let me just quickly check your line. Okay. I just looked at the situation, and I have an initial solution, which I would like to test. In many cases, it is enough to just restart the router. I am now going to restart your router. Internet, telephone and MagentaTV will be interrupted. Is that okay with you? Yes, please. Hurry up. Yes, please. The router has been restarted. Is the Internet working again? Yes. Now my Internet connection is back. Thanks a lot, [ Mags ], for your support. Ladies and gentlemen, you won't believe it, but in 30% of all errors, such routine requests actually solve the problem. And this is not actually managed by people on-site. This is automated. The chatbot understands quite naturally what the problem is and can then find the right technical solution in an automated way. Last year, we had 6.2 million customer queries which were dealt with by our chatbot. And this makes us the leading provider of such AI-based tools in Germany. We regularly came out #1 in this field by Computer Bild, for instance, in connection with the use of this automated avatar. Of course, there will be many more things that we can solve using our automated chatbot. However, there will always be a person in the background, a person in flesh and blood who can take over if the chatbot cannot find a solution. So we will always have someone who can help you to sort things out personally, if need be. But AI is not just important in our dealings with our customer. We are also using it internally. If Telekom knew what it knows, then it would be even stronger. And that's why all the knowledge that we have at Telekom is digitized and then made available to our employees using AI. Let's use a query like, what sort of training can I book at Telekom? For instance, on artificial intelligence, we have a chatbot which is called askT. So let me give it a shot. What sort of training would you recommend to me in order to improve my AI skills? Okay. So now this chatbot is checking all the knowledge at Telekom, is syncing it and now it comes up with 2, 3, 5, 6 more training sessions. Apparently, I need to do more to really improve my AI skills. So the chatbot just recommended 6 training sessions to me that I can use as an employee. So usually, you would have to open a website and kick off a manual process. Usually, I would have to spend 20 minutes to actually generate information based on the knowledge from Telekom. However, using the askT chatbot, this information is made available immediately. And we can also use it to provide information on pensions, salaries, holidays, et cetera. All that will be made available to our employees in an automated fashion through the askT chatbot in the future. But we're not just talking about customers or employees. In the engine room, we are also using a great deal of AI today. Let's look at the various use scenarios. Well, on the web, of course, AI is extremely important. You may have seen this vehicle before. It is driving through Germany. And it is analyzing its environment by way of radar virtually. Why are we doing that? Because we are rolling out fiber everywhere, or that's what we want to do anyway, and for that, the vehicle is analyzing the environment. Our T-Cars have traveled 140,000 kilometers all over Germany, scanning the environment, digitizing the information. We made more than 145 million photos and we actually analyzed 735 terabytes of data from our environment. Examples are like, what does this environment look like? Would it be possible to set up a gray cabinet here for our optical fiber line? Or we look at surfaces. Do we have tar or do we have cobblestones? And the radar also analyzes the trees along the streets. Are these shallow roots -- trees with shallow roots or not? So we are using AI to generate a proposal for our technical service providers in order to figure out where to lay the fiber cables in the best possible way and how and what the ideal location is to set up the cabinet. And that has improved our efficiency by 75%. Let me give you another example. Let's say, we have a field staff technician, and he just kicked off the process for fiber. But he's got a problem. And I can tell you that building regulations, quite something in Germany. So of course, the technician can try to learn all these building regulations by heart, but that's not possible. Last year alone, we hired 1,000 new technicians. How would it be possible for them to have all that knowledge available just like that? And for that, we introduced another chatbot that basically provides all the information we need in order to roll out fiber. And this information is provided in an automated way. One example is the optical fiber cable and the way it is laid. If there is an obstacle underground, for instance, a big stone or a foundation, then the optical fiber needs to be laid around it. And we actually refer to that as a particular radius. It's called the bend radius. And if the radius is too small, then the cable will break and then the signal can't go through. So here, we can ask the chatbot, what should be the bend ranges when we are trying to lay an optical fiber cable here? And this is what the employee is doing right at the building side, on site. And the system immediately generates or provides a technical answer. It's a bit technical, I'm afraid. So ultimately, we're talking about a 10-centimeter bend radius for this optical fiber cable. So as you can tell, in the engine room, so to speak, we are also using a great deal of AI. And by the way, your image with MagentaTV, your Internet, all that is controlled automatically and analyzed in the background. And if there are any issues, then sometimes they are fixed automatically in the background without people having to intervene. The last example comes with Lisa from Innovation Management, a colleague of ours. And AI really was the #1 subject at the Mobile World Congress. Lisa, where are you? Hi there. Lisa from Innovation Management. I mean we all know the situation. I mean how many apps do you have on your smartphone? What are we doing with these apps? How much data actually runs through those apps even though I may not even want this? How often does it happen that I'm trying to find a piece of information, but I don't know what app I should be using? What do we need apps for to begin with? Well, let me tell you that Deutsche Telekom is working to make apps superfluous, redundant. And Lisa is going to present the AI phone to you now.

[Interpreted] Yes. I've brought one of our prototypes here. It runs on the T Phone, and it revolutionizes the way we are using our mobile phones. It makes it much more natural, much more intuitive and much simpler. Shall we show a little showcase here?

[Interpreted] Yes, let's do it. And let's come up with a complicated case to demonstrate how it might actually work.

[Interpreted] Okay. So how about say you need a new gift for your dachshund. Yes. So a friend of ours got a dachshund and we need a present for him. And of course, I want to have a Magenta present. So that's the search that we need to do now. Okay, let's test it. So we have this button here. Only works in English. Recommend me a gift for my sausage dog. Okay. So usually you would go to Google, you would enter the search there. Then Google would route you to Amazon, Zalando or whatever. Then maybe you have to watch a video on YouTube. And at the end of the day, you may find it cheaper on eBay anyway. So now it wasn't working. But I have -- I'm prepared for that. It's a demonstration effect. So this is what it would look like. There are different options for presents, you can scroll down and look up more things.

[Interpreted] Okay. So let's say I want some more product information from Amazon. How can I skip the various domains and ask about what sort of material is used for this product?

[Interpreted] Well, that's relatively easy. You just press a button, and then you say, show me more product information or product videos. Let me test it. Show me a product video. And then you can see that it is loading product videos from YouTube. And then you can click on UI. It's a little slow right now, probably because we have so many people using the Wi-Fi here. But you can stay within one user interface and there is no need to go back and forth between different apps. and it saves a lot of time and it's much more intuitive.

[Interpreted] Well, of course, we could use this in any Internet-related situation. If I want to book a flight or a hotel room, then I don't need to use a dedicated app for that. I'm just telling the system, book me a flight from Barcelona to Palma de Mallorca, and then the phone will come up with relevant offers from the Internet, right?

[Interpreted] Yes. I mean, usually, you would have to browse various portals to compare flight prices, et cetera, but you no longer need that. It's kind of your personal travel agent, if you will.

[Interpreted] Yes. So we are working to make apps redundant. We want to be able to use voice, make it more intuitive to use all the functions the Internet offers in order to get just one relevant answer to a question rather than 100. So it's very customer-centric. Yes, just the right answer. Thanks a lot, Lisa, for this product demonstration. Ladies and gentlemen, artificial information is here to stay. We currently have 400 use scenarios -- use cases at Telekom. We want to become the leading telco -- the leading digital telco, and for that, we need AI. It makes us better vis-a-vis our customers, it makes us faster in processing customer queries, it makes us more productive and more efficient in our work and that gives us more capacity to use our technology with greater efficiency. So just meant to give you a glimpse into this very important topic for the future of this company. [Presentation]

[Interpreted] The future doesn't happen by chance. It takes confidence. If we do the right thing today, success will follow as a natural consequence, inevitably. And that calls for the right attitude. So listen, be open to new technologies like artificial intelligence. To knuckle down, get stuck in and always do more than the competition. And to trust, believe in your own power for change. Ladies and gentlemen, Deutsche Telekom delivers all 3 of these ingredients. And they are the very reason I enjoy being here. It's not only about the business, but the people around me, and the tech unit, and out there, and sales, with our customers. And that motivates me. We do what we can to become better by the day. 2023 was another record year for our company. And my warmest thanks, therefore, go to all the people working for Deutsche Telekom regardless of where you are right now. Dear shareholders, ladies and gentlemen, dear customers, I have been CEO of Deutsche Telekom for 10 years, making this my 10th address to the shareholders meeting. And I think that is a great opportunity to look ahead. To look to the future. What more can we do to safeguard a positive future? What will make us strong going forward at Deutsche Telekom? This is what I'm going to talk about today. First of all, the future needs growth. What you can see here in the background is what we call our flywheel. It describes how we grow. First, we invest, incidentally, more than our competitors. That helps us attract customers because they can see that we offer compelling service. This boosts on revenues, which also boosts our efficiency because we can utilize our big machines more, which means that our earnings are rising and then we have more money left to invest. It's that simple at Deutsche Telekom. We've invested EUR 173 billion over the last 10 years. We are winning almost every single mobile test in Germany, and almost all of the customer service tests. And that's why we are winning a lot of new customers, in the U.S., in Germany and in Europe. Last year, overall, we gained 7.6 million new mobile customers alone, plus 610,000 new broadband customers and 357,000 new TV customers, which is why our earnings are also up. Service revenues up 3.6% to around EUR 93 billion, earnings up 6.9% to EUR 40.2 billion and free cash flow up 40.7% to EUR 16.1 billion. Now the last increase, ladies and gentlemen, is a particular importance to you because today we -- another important instrument, the dividend, is in your hands, which should be up 10% to EUR 0.77 per share, providing you approved our proposal. Ladies and gentlemen, our goal used to be to become the leading European telecommunications company. Well, we achieved that. Your Deutsche Telekom today is worth more than Vodafone, Orange, Telefonica, KPN and British Telecom combined. Our new goal is to become the leading digital telecommunications company, because we believe that digitalization is the future. It helps us to improve customer satisfaction, it will help us to earn more and it cut costs. So how does that work? Needless to say, much of our business is local. Our networks in particular, networks are always where you are. We are also local when it comes to our customers, because every market is different. But our costs are largely incurred elsewhere. For instance, for the development of products or software. Just take routers for the whole world, or applications for business customers for the Internet of Things, or computer programs we develop ourselves to manage our networks. The costs are the same, always. Even if we are developing this for many customers, but the more customers we have, the less consequential these costs become. Today Deutsche Telekom has 300 million customers worldwide. And our task going forward will be to leverage this advantage, because scale lightens the load. Our business combination in the U.S. shows just that. This is where the flywheel is moving at a particularly strong pace. We originally anticipated economies of scale worth USD 6 billion as a result of the business combination of Sprint and T-Mobile U.S., but we now expect to hit the $8 billion mark per year, by the way. T-Mobile U.S. is paying out dividends for the first time, around half of which come to us. And it was around $375 million last year. From this year on, however, we expect as much as $1.4 billion from the U.S. coming to Europe. However, we can use even more advantages. For instance, we are a leading provider for business customers in Germany and Europe, but not in the United States, despite having the best network there. Our fixed mobile convergence product bundles are also leading in Europe. So far this does not exist in U.S. though. And these are fields where we want to improve our cooperation between the U.S. and Europe. T-Mobile U.S. are benefiting from our experience just like we are benefiting from theirs. Without the U.S., ladies and gentlemen, our high investments, last but not least, in fiber in Germany, would not even be possible. And as you know, these investments are of great importance to us. And secondly, future needs infrastructure. This is the core of Deutsche Telekom. However, our core is constantly under pressure from new and established competitors. And that's why we make sure that we continue to be the #1 with our networks. We are rolling out optical fiber in the fixed network, fiber-to-the-home, FTTH. In Europe, 70 million households can subscribe to a fiber optic line from us, 8 million of these in Germany. We are building 2 out of every 3 new lines in Germany. Last year alone, we installed 2.6 million lines. And this infrastructure is used by 1 million customers already. And we will keep up the pace of this rollout in Germany, regardless of all the things that are happening around us, even as it becomes harder to do so because inflation is affecting us as well. Everything is getting more expensive. And this also holds true for our network build-up, especially civil engineering works, which is why it's important that we are permitted to make cables more cost effectively, what's known as microtrenching. It's allowed in some municipalities, but not in others. But they should all allow it. Because if you don't need to dig that deep, then it becomes cheaper. In mobile communications, the future is already here. It's called 5G. Our 5G network covers 67% of the population in Europe, around 98% in the U.S. and 96% in Germany. The network in Germany, by the way, is clearly better than its reputation also in international comparison. At least that holds true for Deutsche Telekom's network. Industry magazine Connect gives our network a score of outstanding and video streaming is possible from virtually anywhere with Telekom now. 5G is good for our customers. The network is clearly faster. And we process way more data using this infrastructure. Nonetheless, however, I also look at 5G somehow critically. Because for us as a network provider, 5G came with large investments. At the same time, we have fierce competition here in Germany. So from a merely economic point of view, so far, this has not proven to be profitable for us. Technologically, we made a lot of progress. However, there was still a step backward in terms of regulation because we now have a fourth provider on the market, who is actually put in a privileged position by the regulator. They got important frequencies. And right now, these frequencies are largely untapped, because this other provider rarely builds a network of their own. Our competitor is saying that they have the "most modern network," and I quote that here. But basically, it is just one big white spot. Another next problem is around the corner. The third-party providers as they're called, they don't have a network of their own and they are using ours, until now at fairly negotiated prices. But now they are calling for regulated prices, as low as possible, which would mean, you lease, you win. You build, you lose. Ladies and gentlemen, it looks unlikely that there will be an auction for the next available mobile spectrum, which is good for starters because we'd rather invest the billions of euros in our infrastructure. However, if the money is not actually invested in the network but in the third-party providers instead, then this will not benefit the mobile build-out in this country. And that's why we advocate a clear and honest procedure when it comes to allocating frequencies, to prevent a situation where things actually get worse rather than better. A politician recently said to me, and I quote, "Germany wants everything at the same time, maximum competition, lowest prices, highest investments, and full coverage." Truth is that can't work. And my proposition is maximum buildout, fair prices, but also fair competition among all the players in this field, meaning a flywheel rather than a downward spiral. And we also need momentum, ladies and gentlemen, when we are talking about our permits. We are now having a lot of troubles here. Sometimes it's preservation orders, like on the [ b465 ] in the Taunus region where there is a [ rogue ] settlement, or due to nature conservation. We have butterflies very often. We also have to relocate anthills because the Dusky Large Blue butterfly lays its eggs in the anthills. Ladies and gentlemen, we at Deutsche Telekom really love butterflies. And of course, everybody has a good cause, nature conservation, conservation of buildings. Yes, that's right. But what about our future? What about our future regarding power lines, wind turbines and mobile communications? In Germany, it has become easier to build. Some things are getting easier. But the planned law for fast rollout is still stuck in the cabinet and is not released. Ladies and gentlemen, having a joint is possible in Germany, but we don't seem to have a concept for mobile rollout. Investment needs security, and the future needs security. This is my third point. The world has changed since we were young. Much of what we learned about ethics, about morals is currently being swept under the carpet of history. And this has implications, ladies and gentlemen. And this is why we give security a higher priority. At the same time, it has become a business for the future. We have now a dedicated unit looking after online security, called T-Security, with a revenue of EUR 344 million in 2023, which is an increase by 9%. A month there looks like that. 56 million attacks on the network identified and defended. 200,000 customers protected against the botnet attack. 116,000 customers warned about potential misuse of their data. And this means that the customers can change their passwords before anything happens. And this is the reason we upgrade our security. Together with the Cologne Chamber of Commerce and Industry, we have now created a dedicated training program in this area. Ladies and gentlemen, our most important asset are safe networks. And this is what we are very well aware of. Wherever data comes together, we are building higher walls, we set up barriers, and we develop our own software. And now I would like to mention Open RAN. And for antennas, we now have more providers, which makes us less reliant on individual vendors in the world. Ladies and gentlemen, your Deutsche Telekom is the provider to the western world exclusively. And this also is where you need 200,000 employees' work. This provides more security to all of us, even if the world is getting ever more dangerous. In other parts of the world, the risks are much higher than in the environment of Deutsche Telekom. So we are very well positioned for the future. And this brings me to my fourth point. Future needs innovation. Businesses must keep reinventing themselves. Nokia used to be the global market leader for cellphones, then the iPhone came along and the rest is history. And this means that Deutsche Telekom also has to constantly reinvent itself. With the help of AI, I already showed you some of the examples, and this helps us improve quality, it brings us closer to our customers, and it enhances our productivity, in the field of software development, for example, by more than 50%. But also for innovation, one thing is true. Scale lightens the load. Deutsche Telekom now is the largest European telco in Europe. And we are also the most valuable telco company. And T-Mobile U.S., by the way, is now the most valuable company in this sector, and we own the majority of T-Mobile U.S. But we are competing with large companies such as Amazon, Google, Nvidia and others. And we do not want to be the shrimp among the whales. This is why cooperation is a very important part of our future strategy. First example, secure online shopping. When you shop online, you are asked to verify your identity with a password, and very often you receive a second, a text message with another password. This is called 2-factor authorization. And we have now developed technology, together with Vodafone and O2, that automates this process. A text message is no longer required and the cellphone handles everything in the background. Second example, the automated customer advisor. I already showed it to you. And right now, we are using existing technology, so-called large language models. The most famous of them is probably known to you, it's ChatGPT. These models have a good level of general learning, but they have very little in the way of expert knowledge. And they reproduce text parrot fashion. We, however, want them to actually speak to our customers in the way we interact with our customers. And this is why we are now working on our own language model. We are doing this with partners such as SoftBank, SK Telecom in Korea or Singtel in Singapore. And this is a product that we, in the future, can also sell to other companies. So we are using AI not only for ourselves, but AI is also a business model for the future, especially for our B2B customers. And talking about our B2B business, we now have more than EUR 15 billion of revenues with our B2B customers every year. Major customers, big customers are served through T-Systems. T-Systems struggled for a long time. Compared to many competitors, it was too small. So we had a disadvantage regarding the scale, and our wage costs in Germany are higher than elsewhere, and our classic business is shrinking. But one thing that remains, every Deutsche Telekom business must make a positive contribution to the results of the entire group. And this is now also the case for T-Systems. In 2023, for the first time, T-Systems managed to make a positive contribution because we transformed the business and focused on 2 markets. First of all, on cloud services and on digital services, digital solutions for companies. Two examples. First, safe driving. In the automotive industry, parts are cut from aluminum, for batteries, for example. And these have to be absolutely error-free, otherwise, it will end in disasters. T-Systems has designed artificial intelligence that can perform necessary checks. Second example, cancer diagnosis. Radiologists view thousands of patient scans every day on the computer screen. It's easy to miss something. But AI can also make an automatic check and will tell doctors if there is an irregularity somewhere. And these examples go to show that AI is not a threat, but it makes our life easier, more secure and also longer, in fact. Many of our business customers are served by Telekom Deutschland. Revenue in 2023 was EUR 9.3 billion, up 2.4%. But the legacy business, the core business is in decline there, too. But here again, we are more and more focusing on digital solutions and Telekom Deutschland is collaborating even closer with T-Systems in this area and talk to customers together. We are a one-stop shop for all customers' needs: telephone, data centers, security, cloud and digital solutions, and so we can generate major growth. And it helps that our customers have known us for years and trust us. Artificial intelligence plus human empathy for us both belong together. And this brings me to my fifth point. Future needs people. Ladies and gentlemen, Deutsche Telekom is changing. We count on experience. We rely on new talents. The future means bringing these 2 together. Deutsche Telekom is multi-generational. 5,350 young people are currently in training at Deutsche Telekom, or they are studying at Deutsche Telekom, only in Germany. The average age used to be almost 50 years, and it's currently at 41.4 years. And at the same time, we are training our own employees. 78,000 employees have already gone through AI training, and they are now fit for the future, fit for the next generation. Solidarity makes us stronger. Deutsche Telekom is an inclusive company. And this means we always invest into the telecom community. We are always right in the community. We support the weakest links in the community, for example, with special discounts. For children who can't afford digital tools, for people who can't afford telephony or we aid after natural disasters. Our social activities last year had an equivalent value of EUR 1.5 billion. And we also stand up to online hate and propaganda. We raise awareness of the issue. For example, with TV and commercials. But most of all, we support organizations that focus on tackling the roots of this problem, 40 overall. This is important because here, it's about the future of democracy. Ladies and gentlemen, Deutsche Telekom does not divide but it connects the world. And this is what our brand stands for. And by the way, since last year, our brand has been the #1 brand in Germany. We are the #1 brand in Europe and we are the #1 brand of telcos at global level with EUR 73 billion worth and this takes us to the level of Apple, Google and Amazon and we are extremely proud of this. And my last point, future needs transparency. For years, we believed we were living in the information age. But today, we are heading into the disinformation age. Online, you find a mix of facts and fake, that 2 stand side-by-side with fiction and people create their whole worlds for themselves. We are tackling this with radical transparency. This is a program that we have defined for ourselves for 2024 because radical transparency builds trust. We explain our actions. We talk about our successes but we also talk about our mistakes, the good, the bad and the ugly. Take, for example, our report on sustainability. We don't greenwash Deutsche Telekom but we say it like it is. On the positive side, we continue to cut our carbon emissions, minus 11% compared to the previous year. The future is net zero by 2040. On the negative side, only 25% of used cellphones are returned to us. We can only recycle a fraction of the cellphones we sell and the future should be 100% circular economy. On the encouraging side, our openness is appreciated. Our report on sustainability is winning awards. For example, the Building Public Trust Award in the DAX. And also our financial communication has been showered with accolades. In 2023, we were awarded the Investors' Darling twice. Ladies and gentlemen, we weren't always the darling. Many people of the [ cliche ] betrayed the trust for a very long time. I'm talking about the new economy, the share price dropped by around 90% 20 years ago and this is precisely why Deutsche Telekom has a particular responsibility to seek dialogue to explain its business and its strategy over and over again and to make its decisions transparent. And this is why we have a face-to-face shareholders' meeting here. And we are always trying out new formats, for example, on YouTube, on YouTube, I dealt with questions from retail investors. We invited the so called finfluencers, people who talk about stock trading in social media and I already got some practice for your questions later on. So the season is open. Yes, shareholders, everybody can reinvent themselves as they seize the opportunity and Deutsche Telekom has done just this. And if you have been loyal to the Deutsche Telekom share as a retail investor since 1990, you now have a full -- you have a good dividend and you have 400% dividend since the IPO in 1996. We used to be a slow moving [indiscernible]. When I started, we were receiving 4.5 million complaints by customers a year. Today, it's only 300,000. 10 years ago, 10% of all the technicians appointments were canceled. Today, it's only 0.5%. 10 years ago, the share price was around EUR 11. And today, it's more than EUR 22. The value of Deutsche Telekom has doubled in 2014, EUR 55 billion, at present EUR 110 billion. Who would have thought 10 years ago that we would get there together. But this also makes me optimistic in spite of all the headwinds and in spite of all regulation, we made this. And we look into the future, we continue to invest around [ EUR 16 billion ] are planned for this year and this wins us customers and enables us to grow. This year alone, we will increase our earnings by 6%. Regarding the free cash flow, we again want to grow by another 16%. And regarding the earnings per share, we plan to increase the value by 10%. This is great news for your dividend because it is based on exactly [indiscernible]. Ladies and gentlemen, it is important for us to answer the question, how can we grow the value of your Deutsche Telekom by another EUR 50 billion. We are gathering the necessary momentum now with the best fully automatic networks in all our global markets, by unlocking the benefits of our economies of scale, becoming more and more efficient, by always getting maximum customer satisfaction and by acting profitably in all the markets and segments. By staying curious over time and using artificial intelligence to become faster and to become the leading digital telecommunications company and by taking responsibility for the people and for the environment, wherever we are active. But above all, [indiscernible] with new products in established markets, like optical fiber in the United States or with a new smartphone of the future that we just presented. The future for us is not far away on the horizon but it starts right at our feet and we are shaping the future with every step we take. And ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't stop at the horizon. We won't stop. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Höttges for very comprehensive and outstanding presentation showing how successful our company is and how many new ideas the company has. So my special thanks go to the Board of Management and of course, to the employees of Deutsche Telekom for their work in the past financial year and for what they have achieved. And I believe I'm doing so also on behalf of these shareholders and their representatives. So thank you very much. Takes me now to the report of the Supervisory Board. We have time later, if you wish to take the floor, please request to do so at the speaker registration counter. This comment cannot be heard by the interpreter, it's the mic. I would like to ask you to -- request to go at the speaker registration desk later on. Please stop your remarks now because I'd like to move on to the report of the Supervisory Board. Again, I would like to ask you, if you wish to take the floor, which is your perfect right, to do so to request the floor at the speaker registration counter in the back later on, so that I can -- see it now. As I said, I will now explain the report of the Supervisory Board, which is on our -- in our management report on Page [ 7 ] forwards. I will summarize the overall report and be brief. The detailed report can be found in the annual report. The Supervisory Board, again, closely monitored the management of the business by the Management Board in the last year. We had 31 meetings in total, 7 primary meetings, 1 closed-door meeting, 23 committee meetings, attendance rate was 97% and that's very high, cooperation with the Management Board was and still is very good and very trusting. Due to the high frequency of meetings, we are in close regular dialogue with the Management Board, as you can expect from us. The main basis for the fulfillment of the statutory supervisory duties where the written and oral reports of the Management Board, the Supervisory Board regularly discuss the current situation of the company at its meetings. The Management Board fulfilled its information obligations comprehensively and promptly. The content and scope of the reports met the specified requirements. The Management Board also reported on individual issues in writing or in discussions between the meetings. In addition, I also exchanged views with the Management Board in particular, with the Chairman, Mr. Höttges, at regular meetings. On the basis of its reviews and the auditor's report, the Supervisory Board has come to the conclusion that there are no reasons to doubt the appropriateness and effectiveness of the financial statements, the internal control system and the risk and opportunities management system. We discussed the transactions and measures that the management -- was submitted to us for approval in accordance with a catalog of transactions requiring approval in fiscal year 2023 with the Management Board and [indiscernible] in detail and we approved the measures presented in each case. The auditor audited the annual financial statements and the consolidated financial statements as well as the summarized management report and group management report and issued an unqualified audit opinion in each case. Supervisory Board approved the annual financial statements and the consolidated financial statements following its own review at its meeting on the 22nd of February 2024. The annual financial statements have thus been adopted. Allow me to briefly summarize the main focus of the Supervisory Board's work in the past financial year. It's quite a long list because we intensively looked at many topics. So first of all, of course, we have the annual and consolidated financial statements but also the implementation of telecom strategy on its way to becoming the leading digital telecommunications company. Other key topics were the private client business, client approach, platform business model and the portfolio strategy. We also looked at the business strategy and development in the segments, use of artificial intelligence, which Mr. Höttges intensively presented earlier on. It was, of course, another important focus. And I agree totally with Mr. Höttges that Artificial Intelligence will have a major impact on all parts of the business. Then we had the dividend policy and share buybacks at Deutsche Telekom AG and Telecom Mobile U.S. and of course, we welcome, same as the management that for the first time, T-Mobile U.S. is going to pay out a dividend. The effects of the global semiconductor and supply chain crisis and how to deal with were another topic and it remains to do so. It's not over yet. The market and competitive situation have also been intensively discussed and we have been able to convince ourselves that the company is extremely well positioned here and prepared. The financial and debt situation have also shown positive development. ESG, the abbreviation of sustainability-related areas of responsibility of the company, environment, social and governance and we have again focused intensively on this topic and congratulations on the awards you have won in this regard. It shows that this company is really well positioned here. And the budget and the annual financing plan for 2024 and the medium-term planning for 2024 to '27 have also been discussed. Then we have personnel matters, I will discuss that later in greater detail. We had the resignation of Mr. Adel Al-Saleh and the appointment of Dr. Ferri Abolhassan and we reappointed Mr. Gopalan. Regarding governance, we made some adjustments as well. I will explain the details in a minute. We changed the structure of several [indiscernible] committees. Regarding the 2023 financial year, it has been another very strong and successful year for Deutsche Telekom despite the challenges caused by geopolitical tensions, increased energy prices and the high inflation. Fortunately, the inflation rate has gone down but for a company with many retail customers, the price increases cannot just be handed down. So it has been a real challenge. Sales rose by 0.6% to achieve EUR 112 billion, adjusted EBITDA AL saw a strong increase of 4% to achieve EUR 40.5 billion. I think it makes sense to report this. Now the reported consolidated net profit was more than double the value of 2022 with a EUR 17.8 billion. Mr. Höttges has just described the financial figures. But the operative business has shown very good development in all areas. [indiscernible] shows that this is also very important to cooperate here with T-Systems. The company is developing into a leading digital telecommunications company and is now prepared for the opportunities and challenges of the future and has thus laid a very good foundation for future successes. The very good business result confirms the outstanding work of the Management Board. And on behalf of the entire Supervisory Board, I expressly thank the Management Board and all employees for their hard work and their success. The team has certainly deserved this. Based on the results achieved in 2023 financial year, the Management Board and the Supervisory Board are proposing a dividend of EUR 0.77 per share in line with the announced distribution policy. The task is now to consistently pursue Deutsche Telekom's strategy shown and outlined by Mr. Höttges in his speech and I'm confident that the Board of Management and the employees will succeed and continue to demonstrate the strength of Deutsche Telekom. Let me now speak about the personnel matters. As you know, there has been a change on the Management Board in October 2023. We terminated the appointment of Mr. Adel Al-Saleh to the Management Board of T-Systems with the effect of the end of the 31st of December 2023 at his own request. At the same time, we appointed Dr. Ferri Abolhassan as a successor with effect from the first of January 2024 for 3 years. Now, with Dr. Ferri Abolhassan -- most welcome, we have found a proven expert in the field of digitization, cloud, security and artificial intelligence for this challenging position. He already knows T-Systems, thanks to his many years as T-Systems Managing Director and with over 20 years of experience in IT, he has the necessary expertise to successfully continue Adel Al-Saleh's work. Of course, I also enjoyed myself and I had been able to follow the activities of Mr. Abolhassan in the past and I've been able to convince myself that he, at any rate has the necessary qualifications to continue the work of Adel Al-Saleh. So congratulations and the best of success for your work going forward. And I am also very much pleased that at the beginning of this year, with effect from the 1st of January next year, we re-appointed Mr. Srini Gopalan for another 5 years to the Management Board to Germany. Of course, I've known Mr. Srini Gopalan for a very long time, we cooperate very intensively. The business -- he is very important for this group and he expanded it and developed it further with a lot of success. He has had a lot of success with the build-out of optical fiber network. So the reduction of copper and the build-out of optical fiber. So we have no doubt, at Supervisory Board, that Mr. Gopalan will of, course, strengthen our position in that regard going forward. And so we're really happy that he has extended his contract for another 5 years. So welcome, and we're glad to have you on Board for another 5 years. Now this brings me to the changes in the Supervisory Board. On the side of the shareholder representatives, we have the following changes. First of all, Mrs. Margret Suckale and Mr. Harald Krüger were reelected to the Supervisory Board in April 2023 and Dr. Reinhard Ploss was newly elected. So these 2 will remain in the Supervisory Board and Dr. Reinhard Ploss will be new. The terms of office of Mr. Lars Hinrichs and Mr. Karl-Heinz Streibich end with today's Annual General Meeting. We are proposing both of them to be reelected for another 2-year term because we are convinced that the mandate that Supervisory Board members normally end after 12 years. And therefore, we are extending their term of office for 2 years because they've already been on the Supervisory Board for 10 years. So we're following what is being requested by many investors to limit the term of office in the Supervisory Board and the new members are appointed for 4 years instead of 5 years because they can have a maximum of 2 extensions. Now regarding those 2 persons, Mr. Lars Hinrichs is, among other things, managing partner of Cinco Capital GmbH, Hamburg. He has years of expertise in the areas of entrepreneurship, venture capital, business development and strategic partnerships. And he has broad knowledge in the areas of e-commerce, social networking and social media. Mr. Karl-Heinz Streibich is Honorary Chairman of the acatech senate, the German Academy of Science and Engineering in Munich. He was previously Chairman of the -- on the Management Board of Software AG and he has particular experience in the areas of IT services, telecommunication services and also in managing international IT and software companies and he's also well versed in artificial intelligence. The CVs of the candidates can be found in the invitation to the Annual General Meeting and have been published in advance on the Internet. Of course, the Supervisory Board has based its search for candidates on the competency profile that it has adopted. And this ensures that the areas of expertise considered to be essential are covered by the Supervisory Board as a whole. Both candidates are ideally qualified with their areas of expertise for our Board. And this can also be seen in the qualification metrics, which is available on our Annual General Meeting website. Now on the side of employee representatives and the delegates meeting on the seventh of November 2023, Mr. Odysseus Chatzidis, Mr. Constantin Greve, Ms. Petra Steffi Kreusel, Ms. Kerstin Marx, Mr. Frank Sauerland, Ms. Susanne Schöttke, Ms. Nicole Seelemann-Wandtke and Ms. Karin Topel were reelected to the Supervisory Board, while Mr. Eric Daum and Mr. Christoph Schmitz-Dethlefsen were elected to the Supervisory Board for the first time. Ms. Nicole Koch and Mr. Lothar Schröder did not stand for reelection and stepped down from the Supervisory Board on the seventh of November 2023. First, I'd like to welcome Mr. Daum and Mr. Schmitz-Dethlefsen. I'm delighted to have you here today for the first time. But on behalf of the Supervisory Board, I would expressly thank Ms. Nicole Koch for the work carried out but in particularly, also Mr. Lothar Schröder, who served Deutsche Telekom as a member of the Supervisory Board for over 17 years and for their dedicated work to both of them in the interest of the company. Now, if you like to follow today's proposal for the reelection of those 2 persons, I would really be pleased because cooperation with those 2 candidates is excellent. We are having a very critical but also very constructive dialogue amongst ourselves but also with the Management Board and this is something that you can expect from the Supervisory Board. Ladies and gentlemen, this brings me to corporate governance. As you can see from the annual report, Deutsche Telekom has complied with the recommendations of the German Corporate Governance Code in 2023 since last the declaration was issued with the exception of recommendation C.5. In the current 2024 fiscal year, we will fully comply with the recommendations of the German Corporate Governance Code C.5, concerns my position due to my temporary dual function as Chairman of the Board of Management of Deutsche Post and as Chairman of the Supervisory Board of Deutsche Telekom. And this dual function has now ceased with my departure from the Board of Management of Deutsche Post in May 2023. So as I said, I can say that both for Deutsche Post, DHL, they fared well during that time, as did Deutsche Telekom. And I don't believe that the dual function led to my -- either of those 2 companies not being led in the proper manner. But what's perhaps also important to note is that I have taken part in all meetings, in all Supervisory Boards in which I have been a member. And apart from that, I have attended all the meetings also of the committees, as is my duty as Chairman of the Supervisory Board and also required to know what's being discussed in the various committees. Therefore, I am also a regular guest at the Audit Committee meeting led by Ms. Kollmann. I think this is my normal duty as Chairman of the Supervisory Board that I do so, although I'm not a member in that committee. And this has many positive aspects because it clearly improves the work of the Supervisory Board as a whole. Next and in this section, I'd like to inform you about a change for our internal Supervisory Board governance. With effect of the first of January this year, the Supervisory Board has adjusted the structure of its committees. First of all, we have created a new committee, which is the Strategy, ESG and Innovation Committee, and I am deviating from the text here because I was responsible for this. I think it is essential that the Supervisory Board deals with a long-term strategy intensively in the form of a committee. And this also -- this should also be linked up to ESG. In the past, we had the T&I, Technology and Innovation committee and ESG was not so clearly focused in that committee. And this year now, gives us the opportunity together with the Management Board, to discuss those very important topics in a very focused and concentrated manner. Secondly, the finance and audit committees were combined because we're convinced that both the -- look both into the future and to look back needs to be combined. Therefore, the workload of the new committee will clearly increase, especially in the field of remuneration. And we want to make sure that the entire world of figures is covered in a uniform and holistic manner by the Audit and Finance Committee. So we will have 1 committee dealing with ESG and strategy and innovation, 1 dealing with audit matters and finance matters. And then in addition, we have the Procedure Committee and of course, Personnel Committee. Now regarding remuneration. As a consequence of this change and agenda item 8, we are proposing to adjust 2 areas. We have 2 points. First of all, the background, of course, is the change in committee structure. On the 1 hand, the level of remuneration for the work of the merged Audit and Finance Committee should be adjusted in line with the expanded range of tasks. Committee members should receive an increase from EUR 40,000 to EUR 50,000 and the Chair, an increase from EUR 100,000 to EUR 120,000. Furthermore, the appropriate remuneration needs to be granted also for the work of the newly formed Strategy, ESG and Innovation Committee. For members, there would be a change from EUR 30,000 -- with EUR 30,000 and for the Chair EUR 70,000. Now, apart from that, the remuneration structure, composition and amount of the Supervisory Board remains unchanged. Now moving on to the remuneration of the Management Board, the remuneration system for the members of the Management Board was last approved at the 2022 Annual General Meeting. The structure of the Management Board remuneration has not changed since then. We have submitted our remuneration support to you for approval at this Annual General Meeting, as every year. Now ladies and gentlemen, allow me to summarize my report on 2023 as follows. The Supervisory Board closely monitors the work of the Management Board on the basis of legally compliant and effective corporate governance. The Supervisory Board is convinced that Deutsche Telekom is strategically well aligned and structured, is clearly on a course for operational growth and is also in a good financial position, thanks to a solid balance sheet ratios and a strong free cash flow. Therefore, the Management Board has thus laid an outstanding bases for mastering future challenges. Dear shareholders, this ends my report as Chairman of the Supervisory Board and thank you for your attention.

Thank you. I will now call up agenda items 2 to 9. Please refer to the invitation to the AGM published in the Federal Gazette for the wording of these agenda items and the corresponding resolutions proposed by the Board of Management and Supervisory Board. With regard to agenda item 2, I would also like to point out the following. As part of share-matching plans, treasury shares, in other words, shares of the company were transferred to planned participants in the current financial year. The company also repurchased treasury shares. As a result, the total number of shares entitled to dividends has decreased compared to the number stated in the invitation. The Board of Management and Supervisory Board have therefore adjusted their proposed resolution on agenda item 2, as announced in the invitation to the Shareholders Meeting for this case. The Board of Management and Supervisory Board then propose that the resolution be passed. The net retained profits of [ EUR 12,311,000,000 ] be generated as follows: distribution of a dividend of EUR 0.77 per dividend-bearing share totaling [ EUR 3,816,544,283.42 ] carrying forward the remaining amount to the new account of [ EUR 8,495,368,000.42 ]. You can view the amended proposal for the appropriation of profits on the company's website and at the speakers' registration counter. I am now announcing the current attendance. Attendance of the shareholders meeting on the 10th of April 2024 in Bonn. Right now, we have [ 3,608,081,332 ] dividend-bearing shares. This corresponds to the relevant amounts in euro or 32.3%, that's [ 4,986,458,596 ] dividend-bearing shares of the shareholders' stock. In addition, postal votes were submitted for [ 21,118,776 ] dividend-bearing shares. These will also be taken into account for the vote, which means that we have [ 3,629,292,007 ] dividend-bearing shares here, which corresponds to 72.7% of the shareholder capital. That's the current status. It's always a big challenge to read out these numbers but I understand that my colleagues double check that the figures I quoted were correct. Which brings me to the general debate. Some housekeeping, as Chairman of the meeting, I am also guided by the German Corporate Governance Code, that an ordinary AGM should be concluded after 4 to 6 hours at the latest, which is also in your vested interest. With this in mind, I will ensure that today's AGM be conducted swiftly. In order to do justice to this, in the interest of all shareholders present and in view of the request to speak that have already been received, I am limiting the speaking and question time to 10 minutes per speaker from the outset, just like last year. Previous experience here and at other AGMs has shown that 10 minutes are sufficient to adequately deal with even complex issues. You will be informed of the expiry of your speaking and question time by the notice on the lectern. If the progress of the rest of the meeting makes it necessary, I will further limit your speaking and question time. Of course, you always have the option of making a second comment if you have any further questions. The Board of Management will respond to questions from a small number of speakers, just as in the past. I will answer questions directed to the Supervisory Board, myself. The Board of Management has stated that unless it disagrees with my answers, it will adopt them as its own. In the interest of all shareholders and in order to concentrate the meeting, identical questions from different shareholders will only be answered once and summarized. I would like to ask shareholders who have a concern in their capacity as a customer of this company not to raise this question in the general debate but to contact customer service representatives instead. Please go to the information desk in the foyer on the entrance level. In the interest of all shareholders, we will not answer questions that are not relevant to the agenda during the general debate. And Mr. Höttges already demonstrate that Telekom is getting many fewer questions than before because of the well automated tools we have. So if you have a question relating to products of Deutsche Telekom or any technical problems, please refer to our customer care staff here. I mean every question or every complaint rather is one too many and we will always try to answer it but please let's not do this as part of our general debate here, which brings me to our first group of speakers. Okay. I'd forgotten that we always play some music before we continue with the next group of speakers. Mr. [ Henrique Schmitz ], from DBS investment, is first followed by [indiscernible], DK Investment and then the third speaker [indiscernible] from Union Invest. So Mr. [indiscernible] from DBS Investment GMBH, you have the floor.

Thank you, Dr. Appel, Mr. Höttges, ladies and gentlemen, members of the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management and dear co-shareholders. My name is [indiscernible] and I am representing DBS Schmidt Investment GmbH, one of the biggest European investment funds and we are representing the shares we hold. Mr. Höttges, first of all, a word of thanks. I very much liked how you presented to us in your introduction, what Deutsche Telekom stands for. And how you described how you're dealing with technical challenges, very impressive. Well, let me state that in the past fiscal year, Deutsche Telecom continued to successfully improve its organic growth path and improved its earnings. And I would like to, therefore, thank all current and previous members of the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management for their commitment and the excellent work. And please pass this on to whom it may concern. And Mr. Abolhassan, we wish you all the best and we hope that you will give us, shareholders, a lot of reason for joy. Couple of numbers of free cash flow, which is up EUR 5.7 billion. And then we have deleveraged by EUR 2 billion, which is also impressive. However, the reduction of net debt considering the proceeds from the sale of the Towers business doesn't seem that perfect to begin with. So let me give you a couple of examples from the German market. My first question is, how do you assess the current competitive situation in Germany? And what changes may result from the establishment of the fourth mobile provider. Mr. Höttges already talked about it. What will the abolition of the ancillary cost privilege mean for the German fixed network segment in the medium term. Your fiber rollout continues to be a strategic corporate goal. What is the effect of inflation and the lack of skilled labor here? Will this impact on the speed at which the network is rolled out, will it mean that investment costs will be up? Then I would also like to ask you to give us an outlook or an update on the current situation of the fiber rollout. Then let me talk about inflation, technology, security and selling or disposal of shareholdings. To what extent is Deutsche Telekom's situation affected by the current inflationary environment? What measures have you taken to counteract that and which areas are affected the most? Infrastructure investments have risen over the past few years. Again, what is the impact of the inflation situation here? What is your outlook to 2024 and your forecast in this regard? What is the current status regarding the review of Huawei technology and what might be potential financial implications? Last but not least, according to media reports, the German government is planning to reduce its stake in Deutsche Telekom. First question, can you comment on that? And secondly, what implications might this have on the capital structure? Pleasantly enough, Deutsche Telekom proposed a 10% rise in the dividend and also announced a share buyback program, how are you going to prioritize things here in the future? Will the Board of management give priority to a higher dividend or to a continued share buyback. Net debt at Deutsche Telekom, including lease costs is within the target range or not within the target range, when will you reach this target? So we got EUR 0.70 dividend last year. This year, you are proposing a dividend of EUR 0.77, which is 10% more. And earnings per share now stands at EUR 3.50, which means that it is more than twice as much than in the past. Based on that, the distribution ratio of around 21%, however, is below the communicated range of between 40% to 60% of net profit. And according to the annual report, you had proceeds of more than EUR 12 billion from the sale of the Tower business. So the question is, why aren't you using these funds, at least in part, to fund a higher dividend for us, shareholders? The planned share buyback program has been designed such, according to you, Mr. Höttges that shareholders will be compensated for the capital increase from 2021. So you are trying to do that retroactively. But how can you make sure that we really benefit from this supposed -- that network of yours. About the U.S. The takeover of Sprint by T-Mobile U.S. is showing the synergies that we were hoping for and cash flow has increased significantly. However, on a negative note, your U.S. subsidiary is also making headlines in other fields. There is a lack of data security. The antitrust authority has launched an investigation. What measures are you taking in order to counteract that? Has the Supervisory Board looked into this matter? When can we expect further measures? And when will the Supervisory Board safeguard a better control? From our point of view, hacker attacks and data theft are among the biggest problems for customers in the telecommunications industry. That's why this should be a top issue for this Board of Management, particularly for this very company where the trust that you expect customers to place in you is part of your customer value proposition. U.S. subsidiary, T-Mobile U.S. was also covered on Pages 159 to 161 in the annual report. There was a total of 7 antitrust proceedings against T-Mobile U.S. And for over 12 years, there has been a legal battle over promises made as part of your prospectus. As the risk is pretty low and as this topic is not deemed to be highly relevant, it has not been covered that much. This to me looks like a sigh of relief. And there have been various trials with a total amount of more than EUR 1 billion. Following the business combination in the U.S., several trials are now pending. The first of which was admitted in Chicago in November 2023. Again, you said that you can't reliably estimate the financial implications. On Page 171 of the annual report, you said that you made provisions to the tune of [ EUR 8 billion ] for this purpose, which means that the total costs are slightly down by EUR 100 million but the long-term provisions compared to the short-term provisions increased by EUR 470 million. Can you please tell us how this increase came about and what the reason is? That said, your U.S. subsidiary as a result of various hacker attacks and a lack of sufficient data protection measures is also criticized by others. We also pointed this out at last year's AGM and we asked several questions back then. Back then, we asked you, how you make sure that the group's data protection regulations be observed in the U.S. as well. You then said that T-Mobile U.S. is deciding on that independently. I would like to state, however, that this is not in the very interest of the company. It is not acceptable for the group to accept any risks in terms of data protection in the U.S. and I think it is not acceptable either that I need to tell you again that it is really necessary to take resolute measures here, which is in the best interest of you and this company and us. For a couple of years, we have also discussed the current status of corporate governance in this company. In the past, we raised some deficits, some of which have been eliminated by now. However, there are still a couple of aspects which are still relevant and we repeatedly requested you to change things here. Specifically, we still criticize a lack of independence of the members of the Audit Committee. But not just at the very top of the Audit Committee but overall. And this is the reason why we are not going to approve the actions of the Supervisory Board at today's AGM, just like last year. We critically remarked last year that Dr. Kollmann has been a member of the Supervisory Board for 10 years. That's why we don't consider her to be independent anymore. We don't think that this is acceptable. At the same time, Mr. Karl-Heinz Streibich is proposed to be reelected to the Supervisory Board, the first time he was elected to the Supervisory Board was 2013. So also more than 10 years ago, which means that we don't consider him to be independent anymore. And last year, the Audit Committee only consisted of nonindependent members. Electing Mr. Streibich would continue the situation, which is why we will disapprove it. Mr. Streibich will only be elected for 2 years and we believe that it is important to prepare the company for a successor. And it's really important to really redefine responsibilities of the audit and finance committees. We will approve Mr. Hinrichs election because we have received ample information on how this mandate is handled. We believe there's still room for improvement when it comes to proving the competence of the members of the Supervisory Board using the relevant matrix. And it is important to look at the competence profile, what comes with 30 buzzwords and it's important to describe every competence. From our point of view, however, it would be much more effective to really allocate competencies quite clearly to every individual member. Saying, for instance, this is an expert when it comes to data protection. Last year, Mr. Schröder left the Supervisory Board, who had been incharge of that before. So my question is, who is now in charge of data protection on the Supervisory Board, especially considering the pending trials in the United States. Let me wrap up my comments. Ladies and gentlemen, it has become clear once again that the disclosure of the annual report and the corporate risk report only happened with a delay. I mean you did get an accolade and I'm happy to confirm that. But given reporting obligations, in line with CSRD, we don't think that the delay between that was acceptable. When can we expect that the finance and sustainability reports will be combined or integrated, which means that this information is provided simultaneously. On Page 90 of the sustainability report, you said that you are using the materiality analysis from 2022 for your report in 2023. Can you already tell us what changes you're expecting here for the future? The last point that I would like to talk about is to do with the proposed capital measures. You said that you want to -- that you want to use some contingent capital. However, right now, there doesn't seem to be any intention of issuing an authorization for such contingent capital. And the -- this is also to do with participation rights. We believe that participation rights should no longer be relevant. And that's why we are going to reject the relevant item on the agenda. And we demand or request that the Supervisory Board no longer refer to any such participation rights. So apart from that, we will approve all the other proposed items and we wish you, the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management all the best for 2024. And we are hoping that the share price will continue to develop positively, which is in the vested interest of the shareholders here. Thank you.

Thank very much, Mr. [indiscernible] from [ DWS ]. Now I would like to remind the following speakers that it would be good for everybody to restrict their speaking time to 10 minutes. So now we'll have [indiscernible] from Union Invest. And then Fredrick [indiscernible] of DSW, the protection community for small shareholders.

My name is [indiscernible]. I am representing [indiscernible]. Just like last year, I would like to start my presentation with a great praise. You are holding a Annual General Meeting in the form of a presence meeting, face-to-face meeting. Thank you very much for that. Please keep it up for next year as well. Ladies and gentlemen, after an excellent year 2022, the Deutsche Telekom share, including dividends in March 2023 could see a plus of 20% and was ahead of the DAX companies. But it's important to compare this with competitors, not only in the operational business you were better but the Magenta share was having an 11% premium over the telecom stocks index, so a very good year for Deutsche Telekom again. Mr. Höttges, you really brought Deutsche Telekom back to a success path, not only in the operational business but on the stock exchange as well. And this is not only true for 1 year but it seems to be a permanent development. The most important point here is T-Mobile [indiscernible] U.S. The success of the subsidiary in the U.S. is also now showing its consequences here. And we think it's a good idea to use this company in order to improve the cash flow. The increase of the dividend by 10% and the share buyback program is based on the success of the business in the United States. T-Mobile is accounting for 2/3 of the adjusted earnings of the company. And we have a mobile phone company with a smaller share in Europe now. So we are now depending on the U.S. So if T-Mobile U.S. gets a cold, probably it will develop into an influenza here and the operational business of T-Mobile U.S. cannot be properly controlled. We are not against T-Mobile U.S. But please take into account the risks involved. This is even more important as in the United States, cable and phone operators are competing more and more. There are [indiscernible] products to win over mobile phone customers and we can also see that the markets are almost saturated now. And the strategy change towards fiber will now also come in the U.S. and this requires billions of investments. How can you make sure that this is best done? What is your aim? You, Mr. Hottges are also in the Board of T-Mobile US. What are you demands regarding the local management and are you happy with the increasing dependence on the U.S. business? What we have in your strategy, if there is a downturn at T-Mobile U.S., and how can you make sure that the customers will be happy in the long run? Will you need more investments in the future? And what do you think about the competitive situation in general? How fast will you go for convergence and combination products. And then there is another aspect for the U.S. business, the balance sheet structure, only a very well running machine in the U.S. will make it possible to also reduce debt if a machine in the U.S. is no longer working properly, you will have a problem here with your indebtedness. We always want to have a strong balance sheet, and this is something that we are still missing at Deutsche Telekom. What are your plans regarding the leverage ratio in the fields of fiber to the home, 5G rollout and T-Mobile U.S. Let's move to the business in Germany. So the fiber rollout. With all of the enthusiasm regarding the future investment into fiber, there doesn't seem to a lot happening right now. You're focusing on connovations, but we, as investors, are supporting the investments as fiber and 5G are definitely the technologies of the future. But the earnings expressed in the ROCE cannot be under the capital costs in the long run. The next, EU Commission should not regulate the earnings on newly built networks. So please raise your voice in Brussels and in Berlin. The expensive fiber network should not be just to drain our funds, but should be profitable for us. What is the take-up rate regarding the fiber technology? Do you see the increased cost for private households also at risk? And what do you think about the risk of increased regulation from and Brussels and Berlin. Ladies and gentlemen, the Capital Market Day in October will probably give more clarity, but some of the aspects already have to be raised today. The business model needs to be expanded and what is very important is the unregulated business where Deutsche Telekom can really show its expertise. What is your view on the unregulated business? Do you see opportunities here? What do you think about vertical integration? Do you want to invest more and more into data centers and towers and the opportunities and risks are very big in this area. This is a question which is central to us as shareholders because it can become very expensive, very quickly. You always have to move carefully and you should never lose sight of the quality of the T-share. One buzzword that is heard everywhere is artificial intelligence. This is a technology which will completely change the value generation in all the companies, not only today, but also in your quarterly report, you talked about more than 200 applications or use cases, but Deutsche Telekom has not the economies of scale of the big U.S. companies. What does artificial intelligence mean for you strategically and how fast can you generate revenue based on artificial intelligence? Is your size big enough? Or do you have to join forces with your competitors? Ladies and gentlemen, climate change is happening very fast and major companies are in a special responsibility here. Business processes will change, and you will have to develop a climate strategy do this. But Deutsche Telekom has made a lot of progress regarding sustainability and has developed a sustainable -- sustainability policy, which is unprecedented, but you also have to keep it up, and this needs to be mentioned as an item on the agenda of the shareholders' meeting. The shareholders should have right to also make their voice heard. And in other countries, this is already done. And this would give you more backing for the implementation of the sustainability industry. What do you think about, say, on climate? You don't have anything to hide here quite on the contrary. Ladies and gentlemen, finally, I would like to turn to view the agenda. We are against the reelection of Karl-Heinz Streibich because of the reelection, Mr. Streibich will be a longer -- more than 10 years in the Supervisory Board, and this means that he's no longer independent, and there are no independent members in the Audit Committee. And we also would like to see a new generation in the Supervisory Board, especially regarding the balance sheet complexity of the U.S. subsidiary, we need financial expertise. And with Mr. Appel, the quality of the Supervisory Board Chairman has [ wizened ] we will not approve your activities. For all the other agenda items, we will vote in line the proposals by the Board. We now wish you a lot of success and we are looking forward to another face-to-face shareholders' meeting next year and on. Thank you very much for your attention.

Thank you, Mr. [ Speich ]. Next on the list is Mr. Henrik Pontzen from Union Investment, then we'll have [ Ulrich Beckendorff ] from DSW followed by Florian Hanselmann by the [ Susco Mine ] Capital and Legal [ Indiment ].

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Henrik Pontzen and in the portfolio management of Union Investment, I'm responsible for the topic of sustainability and active shareholders. We are one of the largest shareholders of Deutsche Telekom, and we represent the interest of our 5.8 million investors. Ladies and gentlemen, from a shareholder's point of view, the Hottges era is a clear success story. The figures speak for themselves. Ever since Mr. Hottges started in 2014 as a CEO, the T-share has provided total return of 170 -- 167% based on the share price development and the dividend. This is an extraordinary outperformance compared to the tax only providing total earnings of 96% and the European telecommunication sector, only 12%. So 167% compared to 96% and 12%. So this is really a difference in quality. Deutsche Telekom has the majority of T-Mobile U.S. and can finally harvest what it sold and invested in the past. What are the priorities that you now have for the use of the funds that are generated? Do you want to continue to reduce debt, debt that can be a problem in times of high interest rates. If so, to what extent and until when. So I would like to support the previous speaker. There is still room for maneuver here. Mr. Hottges, your contract is -- will expire in 2026, what do you want to achieve by that time? What are the risks and opportunities you see regarding artificial intelligence. You already talked about the opportunities. It doesn't stop at an avatar. But the risks are also obvious. You are not only being faster and larger and more efficient, but you will also be more vulnerable and more dependent. So how do you want to control the risks and what are your strategies in this area? What are the expectations you have regarding the fiber rollout in the United States in view of the expected size of the business. The scope of the investments and the expected returns compared to other investment possibilities in the United States. What are your expectations regarding the development of the U.S. mobile phone market? Ladies and gentlemen, as a sustainable investor, we place a lot of emphasis on ecological, social and governance-related criteria of ESG for short for climate protection, Deutsche Telekom is a pioneer and is very high on the climate ranking of Union Investment. They are ranking #1 at present. Congratulations for this achievement. This is really commendable. But at the same time, there are still major governance deficits, and this leads me to our vote. We praise very clearly things that can be praised, but we also have to criticize things that can be criticized. And here, the structure of the Supervisory Board is not correct, especially concerning the Finance and Audit Committee. The Chairwoman, Ms. Kollmann is not independent, but independence is not a luxury, but it's an absolutely necessary an indispensable element of the work of the audit and finance committee. The problem here is not restricted to the Chair, but also the composition of the committee is not sufficient. Most of the members are not independent, and this is why we will not approve of the actions of the members of the Supervisory Board under Item 4, and we will also vote against Mr. Streibich as a member of the Supervisory Board. He is no longer independent based on our criteria. The same is true for Ms. Kollmann and Mr. [ Wintels ]. So now under the Item #7, we think that your plans regarding the profit participation rights are not in line with our strategies. I already mentioned the outperformance of Deutsche Telekom. Mr. Hottges, it's also your success, as I said, and excellent work also needs to be excellently rewarded. But success always has many fathers and mothers and some of them were heard in the video that you showed in the beginning. The success, the base, let's say, income in -- your basic income has increased so much that it's no longer in proportion between 2013 and 2023. Your fixed income was raised by 42%, 42%. Mr. Appel, what about the remuneration of the employees of Deutsche Telekom in the same period? And how do you explain the difference in the development? And we also see that the latest increase by more than 20% of the fixed income cannot be seen in the remuneration report. The remuneration report does not provide the transparency that we would deem necessary. We see some weaknesses regarding the content and we will reject the approval of the remuneration report under Item 9 of the agenda. All the other agenda items will be supported. Thank you very much for your attention. See you next year, and we hope that we can celebrate successes again, and I hope it will be another face-to-face meeting in Bonn. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Pontzen. The next speaker now is Mr. Ulrich Beckendorff then followed by Florian Hanselmann by [ SDK ]. And after that [ Jack Abramovich ] which would close the first group. So first, Fredrik Benkendorf from DSW in Dusseldorf.

Chairman, Dr. Appel, ladies and gentleman, my name is [ Ulrich Beckendorff ], and I'm speaking on behalf of those shareholders who have transferred their voting rights to the DSW. First of all, I would like to express my pleasure that this year's shareholder meeting of Deutsche Telekom, again, happens in a face-to-face meeting in Bonn. This is really a good tradition. But this is not a matter of course, unfortunately, and I'm kind of based on the fact that this form of a shareholder is a good indication of the appreciation that a listed company shows towards its shareholders. Regarding the participation of the shareholders in the shareholders' meeting, Deutsche Telekom has really been a prime example among the DAX companies. Ladies and gentlemen, for Deutsche Telekom again, had a positive and successful year 2023 in the view of the many special effect affecting this for example, the divestment of GD Towers, the tower business in both Germany and in Austria and the many unadjusted and adjusted KPIs, regarding organic and inorganic growth rates makes it difficult to really see what the growth was. Organic growth by 4% in earnings AO and free cash flow increased by 41%. However, show that it was a strong year. And for this great achievements in the past year. We would like to especially thank all the employees of Deutsche Telekom, and we also would like to ask the members of the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management to pass on our thanks to the workforce. The already mentioned GD Towers transaction and with a 49% minority share still with Deutsche Telekom was to participate from future value increases compared to the last shareholders' meeting, you did not see any risks regarding further impairment but in the fourth quarter 2023, you had to down -- and now the book value is only -- is down to EUR 3.4 billion. Perhaps you can now explain the background of the impairment. And in how far you think it is possible to have a value increase in the coming years, and please also take into account the slightly improved business outlook for GD towers. Let's say in Germany, fiber rollout has gained pace and the target for 2023 was to be 2.5 million new lines and existing business of 8 million FTTH connections. The internal ambition of up to 3 million new lines, however, were missed. What were the main reasons? Was it a lack of capacities in the construction industry or a deliberate slowdown in view of the higher rollout costs? What were the average costs in 2023 compared to 2022? We see a gap between the booked and the already-established lines. The take-up rate -- the active take-up rate is at 13.5%, 13% to 15%, compared to 30% for your competitors. So don't you have to take into account earnings in rollout? Why don't you do what the competitors do, pre-selling the fiber connections in order to get money in. And looking beyond the Atlantic, an important milestone was the ensuring of the capital majority in T-Mobile U.S. At the end of the year, the majority was at 50.6% but now you have been selling T-Mobile U.S. shares in the market. What is the logic behind these sales? The great development of T-Mobile U.S. is undoubtedly a big success story. But now T-Mobile U.S. is accounting for 2/3 of the earnings and the revenue. So people are already seeing the danger of agglomeration risk. Do you also see risks in the U.S. business? Or could you also imagine to even expand your participation in T-Mobile U.S. ? Last year, there were rumors about Amazon's offer to take over some part of the business, and this resulted in a great turmoil in the market. At the end of the day, there was a cooperation between Amazon and DISH. What do you think about the current competitive situation in the United States has this become fiercer last year and how can T-Mobile U.S. still show its strength? And let's now come to the worry child. This is the systems business, which has lost market share and it only -- and it's no longer as successful as in the past. The positive news in 2023 is that the T-Systems business made a positive cash contribution of EUR 11 million. So that was no longer a cash burner. And the target to have an EBITDA, a margin by of EUR 9 million is now still intact. What are you now planning Mr. Abolhassan, as a new Board member? What do you want to do differently from your predecessor. Mr. Hottges in T-Mobile World Congress in Barcelona this year, you, together with 3 other companies, appealed to the politicians to come up with a new regulation approach. And you also talked about EUR 200 billion gap in the requirement of capital. There was a white book on the telecommunications sector submitted by the European Union that also included the Digital Networks Act. What do you think about the suggestions made by the EU Commission and how probable do you think is an overregulation of the telecommunications industry in Europe. Before I come to the agenda, I would like to talk about the pleasant share price development last year. There was an increase by 16.6% in January of this year with EUR 23.22. There was a new record high for more than 20 years, but still the possible sale of shares by the Deutsche -- by the German government is a threat and is -- do you have good capital allocation. Well, it would be desirable if the federal government has a responsible main shareholder should tell very soon what they want to do. Do you have any information on the timing and the plans of Deutsche -- the German government. And now I would like to turn to the agenda. Under Item 2, you suggesting a 10% increase of dividend to EUR 0.77. And in line, we see dividend policy, you wanted to appropriate 40% to 60%. And this would mean -- we would have a share of 48.1%. So you are already making a huge step towards profit-orientated dividend payment of around 50% of the adjusted earnings. We welcome this, but this should not be the end of this. What are the ideas of the management Board regarding future dividends. The 2 gentlemen suggested for election to the Supervisory Board are met with our unrestricted approval. But last year, we already criticized the published qualification metrics regarding the competency profile of the Supervisory Board, and I would like to congratulate you today, you do not only have the most competence Supervisory Board that I ever saw, but it has even become more competent. Now it fulfills 109 of the 120 possible competence fields, and we would like to ask you to revise the form in which you presented the competency metrics. Regarding the remuneration report, we would like to ask you to answer the following questions. What are the reasons to change the target remuneration of the Board of Management compared to last year? Why were the target values regarding the ESG factors, a reduction of CO2 emissions and energy consumption was higher than the values in 2022, although the -- it is now based on the values without T-Mobile U.S. And for future remuneration reports, we also would like to see a comparison on target values and the actual values. And we also would like to ask you to change the illustration and this would result in a more transparent presentation and give us a better opportunity to assess the remuneration, but we are planning to approve of the resolution. And as last year, there is the special termination right on the part of the CEO for the remuneration. Mr. Hottges, after more than 10 years as CEO of Deutsche Telekom, you are really at the height of your power. And I don't have the impression that you lost any of your aggression vis-a-vis your competitors. Last time, you said you were really interested in fighting your competitors or also vis-a-vis the politician when you are criticizing politicians in Germany and in Europe and say that in this case, it would be better to invest in the United States. Can you share some ideas on what you plan for the rest of your life if you -- do you want to completely your term of office until 2026? Or will you just stay until the time when you are favored for the successor will take over. And in how far do you already have succession plans? Let me come to the end of my contribution. Ladies and gentlemen, for the current business year, in line with the financial figures that you committed to in 2021, you expect further growth. 6% for adjusted EBITDA AL, 16% for the free cash flow and an increase by at least 10% of the adjusted earnings per share. Also for future dividend development is a good outlook for Telekom shareholders. Now I would like to thank all the employees and the Board for the work done, and I would like to wish you a lot of success for the year 2024. Thank you for your attention.

Thank you, Mr. [ Benkendorf ]. Next, we have Florian Hanselmann for SdK, Schutzgemeinschaft der Kapitalanleger, the association for the protection of investors. And then we have Mr. [ Jack Borich ] to end the first talk, and then we'll have answers to all these questions and then have the second band of questions. We start now with Mr. Florian Hanselmann.

Yes. Thank you very much. Dr. Appel, ladies and gentlemen, and Mr. Hanselmann, I'm a speaker of the association for the protection of investors, shareholders, Protection Association, which attends up to 400 shareholders' meetings annually. And ladies and gentlemen, I can only underline the congratulations of the previous -- this regarding present at this shareholders' meeting. Unfortunately, this is not evident for many other DAX-listed companies. And I hope that the situation will continue for Deutsche Telekom in the coming years. The upward development of this company. Here it is difficult to set this into context. While regarding the adjusted values, we have sales that went down 2.1% and regarding service sales we had minimum growth of 0.6% and without the special effects from the sale of The Towers. The net earnings would have gone down by [indiscernible]. Unadjusted, thanks to the cell towers, there has been multiyear high with a result of [ EUR 3.50 -- 3.60 ] per share. This is something we haven't seen in a long time in regards of the company. So besides remarks regarding the agenda, I will limit myself to the risks and I'd like to take a closer look at those risks. Our most important participation with 66% of sales. It's not only a financial participation, which we can just allow to run its course. T-Mobile really managed to be profitable in the U.S. market and growth that with seeing in the group against a clearly increased net debt, which has doubled up to EUR [ 200 -- 142 billion ]. This has gone down to EUR 132 million, thanks to the cell towers, but profitability suffered due to integration costs. But as I said, the figures shown by T-Mobile seems to have been decent. So everything seems to be well on the track and operative terms. And then finally, the cooperation with Sprint also paid off. The mobile network in the U.S. that we're having there is better utilized than we had expected. But there are some things that we need to be taking a closer look at. First of all, you've been saying 50% plus X that's your target, this is what you want to be measured by, and this is what you announced during the last Annual General Meeting. And you said you were successful and you achieved that goal earlier than that. Now we did have an immense improvement due to the deal with the SoftBank 48.75 million shares will be received and so this improves our share, but we might have to buyback. It is a very good deal not for us though, but for SoftBank. As if this isn't difficult enough, you also endangering our majority participation by participating in the share buyback program. Now regarding the strategic setup of T-Mobile, we have issues here. A few weeks ago, there was the announcement of joint venture with Lumos, that wants to enter the optical fiber business. This is something you can do, but in September '22, the fixed net and fiber business of the old Sprint was sold to Cogent for $1, which gave us EUR 1 billion in depreciation and impairment in the balance sheet. Now with regard to corporate governance, this time, we don't have a hacker attack, but an increase in customer complaints in the U.S. They feel damaged by T-Mobile, even if it's is a strange situation because monopolies investigations is something of the public authorities. And if customers of Verizon, Verizon and AT&T feel damage, they should return to their own company instead of complaining about T-Mobile. And this is in fact which we currently understand. But now this complained and went forward. And therefore, we deal with Sprint might have to be reversed. This is a risk, the risk of very expensive arbitration proceedings. It is a risk that cannot be neglected. I have a lot of questions here with some points that I'd like to raise in this context. First of all, market capitalization of Deutsche Telekom is significantly below that of the U.S. subsidiary, T-Mobile share buyback of T-Mobile. Is that a suitable means of generating value for telecom shareholders? [ USD 16.2 billion ]. The amount of money required for share buybacks exceeds the accumulated payout to shareholders of Deutsche Telekom. Do the Board wish to expand the valuation and the value of -- between parent company and subsidiary. Now the charter of T-Mobile shares to SoftBank, does this cover all the compensation mechanisms? Are there other claims that need to be fulfilled and to what amount? Third, if the strategic goal to maintain and secure the strategic majority at T-Mobile, why does Deutsche Telekom, which anticipate in share buybacks of the subsidiary. Is there a danger that with its insider knowledge, the Board members would be speculating against other market participants. Fourth, how does the assess and evaluate the litigation of our consumers in the U.S. and after the litigation has been admitted by court. Sixth, even though the integration of Sprint on the whole fulfilled expectations, this fusion is reflected in the net debt in the past fiscal year due to the partial sale of the cell tower business, there has been some amount of correction. And how far do the Boards assume that the absolute amount of debt can be maintained, especially against the massive share buyback plan by T-Mobile. Since the [indiscernible] announced that they wanted to build out their own fiber network. So what's the charge for CapEx that the board expected and if T-Mobile moves away from being just a mobile operator, what are the effects of that and why were the fixed net and fiber mobile network sold to -- for $1. This full regulatory requirements or was that sale a strategic mistake that we should have avoided? At this point, I'd like to underline that we are not against participation in T-Mobile U.S., but we need to take into account that between 60% and 70% sales cannot be considered a mere financial participation that is allowing to run its course without being checked. I'd now like to speak about the agenda. You will get approval for all items on the agenda, especially we are pleased about the payout of the dividend, although we believe that it could have been higher given the revenue from the sale of the cell towers. There's 1 point that we do not go along with this, Item 7 because we already limit for resolutions regarding equity and because we also have a critical view on participation rights. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to thank you for your attention. I'm looking forward to receiving answers to my questions. Thank you very much.

Mr. Hanselmann, to end the first round of question, we now have Mr. Jack Abramovich. After the first questions have been answered, I'll have Mr. [ Schmitz ] of that, Mr. [ Michael Ibarguen ] [indiscernible]. But first of all, before the questions will be answered. We will have Mr. Jack Abramovich.

Thank you very much Mr. Hottges, the management team and the employees of Deutsche Telekom and the shareholders. I'd like to thank all of you, not once, not twice, but three times. First of all, I'd like to thank you for the great work from which meant that the Deutsche Telekom became the most valuable brand in the world and is among the 10 most valuable brands worldwide. You've been able to increase the value of the brand by 17% to EUR 33.3 billion. That's an increase of 84% since 2020. [indiscernible], I'd like to thank you for the great development of the share price and the dividend. Last year, the share price increased by 16%, and the dividend is to increase by 10%. This is good for investors and employees who have much more shares, but most of all, I'd like to thank you for combating hate on the Internet with a strong position of Deutsche Telekom, as a pioneer in this regard. And they did still be for a certain conference took place in [ Potts 24 ] we heard about that in June or July last year. So thank you for that. It is and remains extremely important to show personal standing and courage. And I'd like to thank you for that. I still remember the times and all those who doubt to [ stream ] will take and those who had predicted the end of growth in the U.S. Nevertheless, 2023 was the year with the fastest customer growth rate in the U.S., T-Mobile U.S. is a clear market leader in 5G and gets remarks from Google and even has a great coverage in the rural areas by the broadband and 5G. The Deutsche Telekom will have paid out more than the original stock market price in the times of your interest rates, Deutsche Telekom was a very good share and it still is. So what I'm concerned about is still the build-out of Fiber. As it doesn't tell us anything because you can only manage if you connect customers to the fiber network. So in the future, you should talk about homes connected and have the corresponding forecast at the end of 2023 and not even 1 million customers who are connected to a fiber network. Also this disputes regarding the build-out of fiber in rural areas are not ideal, and we're great to have our solutions on it that to have fair access for all and it will also be good to take into consideration the investments needed, both for Deutsche Telekom, but also others who were there first. Now parallel build out. Currently, it doesn't help us in Germany with the lagging behind in comparison to other countries. I'd like to welcome Dr. Ferri Abolhassan regarding T-Systems. And I'd like to speak of something about T-Systems also worries me. In 2023, we had a reduction of sales -- of orders of 8.2% that's EUR 3.6 billion. What's positive is the growth in Digital Solutions about that the classical IT business is like your catastrophe monthly. For years, the different management staff have been promising improvements but T-Systems remains a burden on the otherwise good part of business results with a positive cash contribution of just EUR 11 billion in 2023. Therefore, my question is this, will the management stick to that kind of business forever. Is it flexible and good enough to hold position against international competition. I wouldn't think it make sense rather to move away from classical traditional IT business and to consolidate on cloud digital solutions. We will approve all items on the agenda, except for Item 7 which is out of date, and it is surprising that Deutsche Telekom still wants to go along with participation rights. Apart from that, 2023 was a very good year the Deutsche Telekom and the shareholders. And I'd like to thank everyone for that. And I'd like to thank you all for your attention. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Abramovich. Now I'd like to start with the answers to the questions that I already with that. I have here the answer for Mr. [ Schmidt ]. He had 2 questions. First of all, how is the Board dealing with that topic, it was a question regarding network security at DWS. And how far the Supervisory Board is dealing [indiscernible] multifold. First of all, the Supervisory Board regulatory is looking at cybersecurity during its meeting the management also explained to us what has happened and how they dealt with it. Next, the Audit Committee in each of its meeting receives a report on cybersecurity, which also includes the situation in the U.S. And then, of course, they ask back and the Chief Security Information Officer provides a report. And last year, I spent several days with T-Mobile US during the occurrences. I also asked to speak with their Chief Information Security Officer, who explained to me very extensively the measures taken in order to avoid such things in the future. The second question by Mr. Schmidt was this, at what point are data privacy and data security being considered by the Supervisory Board, especially in regard to the current litigation cases in the U.S. Now I already spoke about cybersecurity. Of course, the audit committee also looks at data privacy and data security, but we're also discussing this in the supervisory. On the whole, we also have Deutsche Telekom, the security -- the Security Advisory Council. We have several members here. Amongst them, Mr. [ Sauerland ], and we're very glad that Mr. [ Sauerland ] will continue to remain the Chairman of that advisory council despite his leaving Supervisory Board. Now I would like to add this. You asked how we assess the situation. Well, first of all, there was the independence of Supervisory Board members being raised on their qualifications. Let me say this. I already said this in the past and also in bilateral discussions with some of the speakers. I understand that there is a formal criteria such as the length of office in the Supervisory Board, but another thing is how you act within the Supervisory Board. From our own profile, you know that I've been active in 5 Supervisory Board. I've been Supervisory Board Chairman during the financial crisis at the Postbank, I'm in the Supervisory Board of Adidas and [ Fresno ] and for the last 2 years, I've been Chairman of the Supervisory Board of Deutsche Telekom. And over -- apart from that, I also let Supervisory Board at Deutsche Post and DHL. I cooperate with many audit companies with their auditing repeatedly. We just had the change about the Deutsche Telekom to move over to Deloitte from DWS. And I think I can assess what independence is? What it looks like and what topics need to be addressed. And of course, I'm pleased to find that the DSW, the Association for the Protection of Investors last year, what it means the price of good governance. And if you look at the list of companies there, you'll find very many renowned companies. Now regarding the persons, Ms. Kollmann and Mr. Streibich, I can assess that these persons are highly independent, although they've been on the Supervisory Board for a long time. Of course, it is my task in the -- to attend Audit Committee meetings and finance committee meetings regularly to see how the discussions are being led. How difficult issues are being addressed and discussed and how is this being asked. And this is certainly the case for those 2 candidates. And therefore, I think it does make sense for Mr. Kollmann to continue chairing that committee and for Mr. Streibich continue on the Board. Now I just wanted to explain to all shareholders present, my reasons and how I assess how the members are, whether the members are independent, is this something you can expect from me. I'm just looking at the formal criteria whether they are fulfilled, but I think we can really say that there is very good governance and supervision in this company and by the Supervisory Board. I would like to ask you to follow our proposal and approve the appointment of reappointment of Mr. Streibich and Ms. Kollmann. Then the qualification metrics. They are certainly justified criticism on how this is legally regulated. It is perhaps a difficult, I, myself, also believe we done differently. There should be a list of qualification Supervisory Board member should name [ 3 ]. But if Telekom was the only company, but to implement that, then everyone would ask us how are we just having so few qualifications. Therefore, the legal requirements should be changed, that I was saying regarding the listed criteria. Every Board member should mention a few criteria which they feel particularly suited, then you would get a good profile. If you're talking about my person, I feel qualified for all the topics and the member should handle. Otherwise, I wouldn't trust myself was doing this job. If I wouldn't -- didn't take offerings anymore, I wouldn't be doing my job. So it's not so much just ticking off these boxes. I'm sure that the Supervisor Board members are suited to do their jobs, but we also want to have certain profile and that would make sense to have only limited number of qualification that you take off. But for that purpose, we would have to have change of the legal requirements. Otherwise, we would be the only company doing this. So those is not so much an answer to the questions, but a remark, but it perhaps helps create transparency for all the shareholders to understand our reasons for making those proposals. And now I'd like to hand over to Mr. Hottges for answering questions to the Management Board, and then we'll come back to the other questions.

Thank you, Mr. Schmidt. You asked a couple of questions on the company's strategy and the ancillary cost privilege. The evolution of the performance-based privilege means that for the first time, we can reach 12.5 million new households because they can now choose what provider they want to use for their TV. Previously, this was a privilege of the cable operators, which means that this market has now been opened. This monopoly has been dropped, and I would like to thank the regulators for allowing free competition in this field after all. We believe that this also offers additional market potential for our optical fiber. And I mean, as long as we weren't able to offer this to 12 million households, of course, we weren't happy about that. We believe that now that this is possible, it will offer new impetus to our MagentaTV product and our fiber rollout. In fact, we already set up some partnerships with housing associations, which will make it possible for us to get in touch with the 12 million households. Then you asked about how fierce competition is in Germany. In Mobile Communications, we've seen that competitors recently have been very aggressive in bringing their prices down. The German mobile communications market continues to be highly competitive. Not only are there the big network operators here, but there are also what we refer to as the multicolor cards like the [ LED ] legal supermarket chains that are also active in this field. We want to position ourselves on the basis of the best network, superior network. Secondly, best customer service and needless to say, we also want to increasingly integrate the families, not just for mobile communications, but also for the fixed network. So an overall connectivity offer. And I think we are very well on track, and this helps us to stand apart from our competitors. At last year, we were clearly the winner here in Germany. With politician with support from politicians, with support from asymmetric privileges, however, there has now been introduced a fourth network operator, 1&1. We believe this is a wrong decision because it means that not a single new antenna will be built. In addition, expensive spectrum that we would like to acquire will become even more expensive. And this is a spectrum which is not even used for customers. In fact, customers are prevented from using it. I believe that the market will become even more competitive as a result of the regulators' measures. And it's basically a question of who's faster and who is more efficient. We need to be better prepared for what happens. We need to make sure that we all find better answers. So far, we've been very successful. And now I can't wait to see whether 1&1 will really roll out an infrastructure of their own. Then you asked a question about how inflation and higher cost impact on our fiber rollout and whether we have reduced our targets. Well, first of all, yes, we have witnessed a massive increase in civil engineering costs in Germany. And yes, interests are also at a very high level in this market. And yes, the fiber infrastructure has become more expensive than we would hope. Having said that though, we put our blinkers on and we'll just see it through because now it's the right time to roll out the fiber network. Last year, we announced 2.5 million, came out at 2.6 million. I always tend to be more ambitious than our internal goals. We considered to do 2.3 million to 2.4 million. And well, of course, building capacities are also an issue. And sometimes it's not possible to reach all your targets, but we won't stop. In 2024, we want to go beyond the 10 million mark in Germany regarding the number of fiber lines. And we want to connect another 2.5 million households in Germany, and we have this big rollout program here. Telecom is building 2 out of 3 lines here, and this is the potential that we have to generate revenues in Germany in the future. As of today, we expect investments to increase further in the Germany operating segment this year and in the next year. We are at EUR 4.6 billion right now. This is the amount that we are investing in this segment in Germany per year. So that's a huge amount, which is invested in the infrastructure. So including T-Systems and including group headquarters, we have investments that are even slightly higher than that. Then you asked a question on Huawei, and how we expect things to develop from here. I cannot predict what the outcome of the current political debate is going to be. Right now, we are not assuming that anybody wants to take part of the mobile communications network out of operation. When it comes to the Huawei access network, I mean here, some things are certainly dependent on the relevant deadlines and dates. However, a short-term switch off of all Chinese antennas is not possible. It's not even technically possible nor would it be acceptable from a security point of view and customers would have to suffer from it. That's why we are still using Chinese components for our antenna network. However, when it comes to any other network components, be it the aggregation network or the core network or software where data is converted into information. For all that, we are not using Chinese components anymore. At the same time, we are making major progress with regards to the Open RAN technology. What is it? It means that we are segregating software. It would mean that we would ultimately have a much bigger choice of antenna vendors: Nokia, Ericsson, Chinese suppliers as well, but also new suppliers from Japan and Korea that we could possibly use. We are making major progress in this field. And next year, we want to establish 3,000 new antennas in Brandenburg and replace the current ones, which I think the breakthrough of Open RAN in the mass market is imminent. And this will give us more flexibility when it comes to selecting vendors in this field. Then you asked a question on the overbuild for optical fiber. Well, that's a bit like a storm in the tea cup. Overall, maybe you can say that 2% to 2.5% of all rollout areas in Germany have parallel structures for the fiber rollout. And nobody seems to bother that our competitors are doing a 100% overbuild of our network in the areas of their responsibility. But at the moment, we overbuild a network which was built by one of our competitors, there is an uproar. But honestly, I mean, this is such a very small share of areas where this is even the case. And our hometown of Bonn, this is the place where we were the first to roll out fiber. And apparently, the town now invited E.ON to overbuild our infrastructure here. Well, thank you very much. So it's been -- we've seen decades of regulation. Now we have competition in the infrastructure segment as well, but this does not only affect telecom. And I think customers -- it's good that customers have a better choice to use different providers for the infrastructure rollout. It's good that the telecommunications markets have been liberalized and we also have a sound legal framework for telecommunications companies in Europe, which is good. It's convergent. And with that, I'd like to hand over to Christian Illek.

Thank you. Question from Mr. Schmidt on the role of inflation and its impact on business and what measures we've been taking to mitigate the situation. First of all, energy costs in Europe, in particular. We hedge them long term, including staff costs, wherever we didn't have any long-standing contracts, mainly in Europe. And then civil engineering costs, Mr. Hottges already commented on that; and thirdly, interest rates. So what did we do? In the Energy segment, the share of power purchase agreements has increased. Our goal is to reach 50% by the end of 2025. In actual fact, we increased hedging for the next couple of years. And when you look at forward pricing today, then you can see that it is possible to do something for energy prices here right now because energy prices have decreased considerably. When it comes to cost control, we've taken various measures. When you look at discretionary costs, for instance, we often said, "Okay, then we're not doing it." We refer to that as stop doing. And then we change from variable funding to fixed funding. 91% of our funding in Europe is fixed now, which means that there is no risk regarding the future. In Europe and in Germany as well, we increased prices in order to overcompensate the effects of higher inflation rates. And Mr. Hottges already talked about our reduced target of the fiber rollout. And right now, we are taking various measures in the field of procurement, renegotiating contracts. And in some areas, we are dealing with monopolies, especially in the civil engineering segment, and we've also launched measures to improve the efficiency of our fiber rollout. So much on the topic of inflation. And there was another question on infrastructure investments. Over the past few years, investments have increased. What are the priorities regarding the future, you asked. Well, first of all, there is a minor decrease year-on-year. Last year, we spent EUR 16.6 billion. This year, we are planning EUR 16 billion. This is mainly driven by the U.S. This entire decrease comes from the U.S. Ex-the United States, ex U.S., there is a minor increase or it remains flat. In Germany, there is a minor increase as in Europe. In the U.S., the reason for the situation is that the network integration is complete now, which means that current CapEx is enough for this year in order to achieve our corporate goals. And in terms of our systems business, well, systems business is flat. But CapEx is an issue, especially in terms of civil engineering. We need to become more efficient here regarding the fiber rollout, and we need to discuss with our vendors what prices are acceptable and which prices are not. Then you asked about proceeds from the sale of our tower business and why we don't use it to pay a higher dividend. Well, this is based on adjusted earnings. It does not include proceeds from M&A transactions. And we've also demonstrated to you how things have developed over time. And we don't want to make ourselves dependent on possible fluctuations resulting from M&A transactions. And here, we are at a 48% distribution rate right now, and we believe that, that is quite good. It is within the communicated range of between 40% to 60%. And -- and of course, we did use the proceeds from the sale of the tower business to make sure that we stick within our target range to bring net debt down, and we are well on course to achieve our target here for 2024. Now Mr. [indiscernible] asked several questions on how we want to further develop our business model. In the next couple of years, the lion's share of our value creation will also come from our networks, which is why we are massively investing in state-of-the-art technologies, fiber and 5G. At the same time, we are planning to invest more in growth business. And for that, we have set aside EUR 2.5 billion, which will be invested in growth fields. This is about areas where we want to complement our core competencies, meaning we are going to acquire stakes and companies in order to exert an influence and to make sure that we as a group can also use these state-of-the-art technologies. Sometimes, we may acquire a majority stake, sometimes a minority stake. But at any rate, we want to have a share in the innovative power of start-ups. This is about things like network security, Internet of Things, generative and artificial intelligence, expansion of our core business in cooperation with business customers. These are the most important aspects of the EUR 2.5 billion that we will be investing in these growth segments. But the core will continue to be our network infrastructure. Then you asked several questions on the fiber rollout. And you asked whether this is a long-term venture. I already answered that. Yes, it is. Right now, by the way, 60% of the households in Germany are using a super vectoring line and 90% of the households are using a VDSL line. So these are lines with -- that offer up to 250 megabytes per second. And I can tell you that customers are very happy with that. And now we are offering a gigabit line and customers are wondering, do I really need that. And that's a discussion that we need to have, of course. And that's why the level of acceptance for new fiber lines is still fairly low because customers who are using super vectoring are already quite happy. And they don't really see how they can benefit from an even faster line. But we are, of course, trying to win new customers. Right now, we are making a lot of progress with the fiber rollout. This year, we want to go beyond the 10 million mark in Germany. And these will be 10 million households that can actually get a fiber line. So it doesn't really -- we will no longer then distinguish between homes passed and homes connected. In 2023, we've already been quite successful. We gained 300,000 new customers for FTTH. This year, the goal stands at 450,000 new customers that we want to migrate to this new technology, FTTH. There will certainly be more demand for higher bandwidth that is as certain as can be. But once the demand is there, it would be too late to start with a rollout, which is why we are already starting now even though the level of utilization may still be fairly low, but we already anticipated that in our business case. Then you asked a question of the impact of European regulators' policies. Well, I will not tire of pointing out the deficits here. At the Mobile World Congress, I also discussed this with my peers and we were sitting there on that stage saying we do need to see a new thought from Brussels. And for that, the EU Commission has launched a white paper that covers several subjects such as what would be an adequate involvement of big tech companies in sharing the cost of infrastructure rollout. You know that huge investments need to be made and others do not have to pay for it. The deregulation of the fiber market is part of that white paper, the harmonization of the sale of spectrum across the 27 member states and EU taxonomy. These are further topics that are discussed there. So access of the European telecommunications industry to tools that make it possible to assess the level of sustainability. This white paper addresses a lot of important subjects. It is a step in the right direction. The new commission will certainly deal with it. Whether or not this will actually be ratified, whether it will lead to this market being more consolidated, more liberalized and becoming more fair regarding the big tech operators, that is speculation. I mean we will -- we are still hoping that this may happen, and we hope that this white paper be ratified by whom it may concern. Then you asked a question about data centers, and you asked whether we should be investing in deregulated markets. Well, first of all, yes, data centers are an important business model for us. In Poland, in the Netherlands and the Czech Republic, we do have such data centers. Our DT Venture Capital Partners entity is also using it. And you might want to check it out for yourselves, we are one of the biggest data center operators in Germany. Then about into towers business. You know that we sold our majority in the towers business in Germany and Austria, which means that we will -- but we will still keep a 59% stake. And this means that using the rights we still have, we can still get back to acquiring the majority rights. We are very happy with the proceeds from the sale, and we already pointed out that we look at the towers business as a growth business, both organically and nonorganically. And we want to have our share in that. And right now, we are preparing the spinoff of our towers in our European subsidiaries. This offers us more potential for growth and also more potential to monetize this business. Then there was another question on climate. I think if you follow us on social media and other areas, sustainability and social responsibility is a core of our identity and the brand DNA, also referring to inclusion. And in the society, we want to be seen as a responsible company having a positive impact on society. And this is not only true for Germany, but for all countries because then the customer will believe in us and will buy our systems. So we are doing this also to profit, and we know about the need to reduce CO2 emissions and the use of energies. We are really making sure that we can autonomously control our energy supply based on PPAs, power purchasing agreements, so that we directly buy electricity from renewable electricity suppliers. 50% of our need is already based on PPA so that we are not dependent on the general trading market. So we are on a good track here. And we are fulfilling the corporate governance code, and we want to make sure that we well position in our company. Now let me continue with the next questions. Although there are still a number of questions open from the last round, but we don't have the answers yet. So now I would like to ask Daniel Schmidt, then Maximilian [indiscernible] and then Mr. Lars [ Oswald ]. First of all, Daniel Schmidt, please. Daniel Schmidt, are you here in the room?

First, I would like to apologize. It's my first time at shareholders' meeting. And whenever you have the first time, you are very nervous. And I would like to thank the chefs for the lunch. The chicken they served was really tender and great. But now let me continue with my address. I've got some questions to the Board of Management. How many subsidiaries does DTAG have. It's very difficult for me to gain transparency. And I also would like you to see how much revenues to expect with omnichannel in Germany and in Europe and this shift the ratio between Germany or the EU and U.S. And then I would like to know how much you invest into AI research. You already saw the AI fund and the [indiscernible] speaker, for example, was terminated because of the big competition from Google, Amazon and so on. This is the end of my first address to the shareholders meeting. For the first time, I wanted to be quick.

Thank you very much, Mr. Schmidt for this contribution. And next, I would like to ask Mr. [indiscernible], followed by Hans [indiscernible] and then Peter [indiscernible], but first, [indiscernible].

That's great. Thank you. This was faster than I expected. First of all, I would like to thank all the employees worldwide. And please tell me later on in how many countries Deutsche Telekom Group active right now. I remember it was 28 in the past. And revenues in Germany in 2022 amounted to 23% of the total group. Then I would like to thank Dr. Appel. Now you're no longer the CEO of Deutsche Post AG and this means that you have a lot of time to focus on the mandate as the Chairman of the Supervisory Board of DTAG. 31 meetings in 1 year, it's really remarkable, but I would like to know how many of those were virtual meetings and how many were face-to-face meetings. And now there is a point where probably I will be criticized, but it's my suggestion as people were also talking about the remuneration of the Board of Management. My suggestion is that you should get 20x as much as the average pay of a normal employee in Germany maximum. Then I would like to know how the Management Board and the Supervisory Board wants to reduce the extremely high bank debt. There is something that I don't understand. And this is that you are making a lot of profits [indiscernible], but why don't you use part of these profit in order to pay back your debt with the banks. This is not for free. And then there is another point which is giving me headaches. As you know, the largest single shareholder is the government in the form of the KFW, and if we heard this correctly in Germany, I think it was in February of this year that the KFW sold major part of the shares of Deutsche Post AG, and this is a reasonable thing to do because we need money for the government. But now I would like to know the following. The Supervisory Board and the Management Board could not prevent this. So what would happen? The current share price, as was said, is excellent. But if the KFW now sold shares, 5 billion of shares to just put it on the market, what would this mean for the share price? And then the next topic. Perhaps you still remember Donald Trump and unfortunately, he wants to become the next President of the United States again. And he does not really like German companies a lot. So what will this mean in view of the strong focus on United States at present? Can this have negative impacts for the companies [indiscernible] subject to fines. I think the United States are more brutal in this way than Germany. So the power of one single person seems to be very strong there. And I can remember 2 years ago, Mr. Hottges told us that we want to make it possible to have perfect communication at Deutsche Bank AG. I do not know whether this topic is really still very important, and it doesn't give you a lot of revenues. But there's one point which should not be underestimated. What happens if it's not artificial intelligence. Well, how can you put it. Telecom AG also possibly focuses again on communication between human beings from human being to human being and perhaps also employes more severely handicapped people because you could take small steps which create positive impact, more money perhaps for fun and entertainment in the company. Fitness, for example, jogging, that's something to be noted. But the shareholders get a reasonable dividend of EUR 0.77. I hope that the employees will also get an additional bonus because without the employees, these fantastic results would not have been possible. And in this context, I also look forward to one of the following speakers and the counter motions presented. And I think we should all fully support discounter motions. And one thing is very clear, I would like to pay a big complement to the Board of Management and the Supervisory Board that there is not only one deal offered for the lunch break, but 2 and also thank you very much for the great framework program, supporting program here. But I am quite surprised last year, apparently more shareholders were present. Perhaps many were [indiscernible] in Stuttgart today, I don't know, but it's really great to see that you are one of the few companies who are not afraid of meeting people face to face.

I represent the card 25565 and I'm not here with my own shares, but in order to not give rise to any misunderstanding. I'm here on behalf of shareholders. I've known for years and to trust me and also Deutsche Telekom AG, otherwise, they wouldn't [indiscernible] any shares. And they are also, of course, very happy about the EUR 0.77 dividend and they hope that the Board of Management and the Supervisory Board will then also not give up to the strong headwind that we expect from the United States. Now I would like to thank everybody for the mindfulness. And I also would like to thank for the great organization. This is something that, I don't know from other companies, sometimes you are not given the right to speak very early. So thank you very much for this. And if you also want to experience another telecommunication shareholders' meeting, then you could perhaps go to one [indiscernible] to Frankfurt in the Opera building. Because there, all the figures will be presented that are published in the annual report and there won't be a real show like here. But thank you very much and you can see, I did not use up all my 10 minutes, and I'm grateful, but even if I don't have a script in front of me, I could probably get across all the messages that I wanted to share with you and it's really a great and entertaining show and thank you very much for the mindfulness you are showing here. And I wish you all the best for all the rest of the shareholders meeting and get access to the next speaker.

Thank you very much, Mr. [indiscernible] for this refreshing contribution. And now on the list, we have [indiscernible], then Peter [indiscernible] and then finally, [indiscernible], whatever. But first of all, [indiscernible].

I brought you my computer in order to watch the time, but you'll probably remind me if I don't use too much time, and if I [indiscernible]. So I hope that my computer works now. Well, the rostrum is very high for me. I'm not that tall, but I will manage somehow. My name is [indiscernible] and I am in the Board of Association for Housing and I would like to welcome all the visitors here. Let me talking about Item 1 of this. I would like to express my thanks to the telecom employees for all the work done in the last business year. Now we are back here in the telecom show for Shareholders' Meeting. This is what was said by a journalist. There are boards of management and supervisory boards who just wanted to give us a [indiscernible] show. Are you also one of them. I would like to get a statement [indiscernible]. Over and over again, the shareholders' rights are disrespected by Supervisory Board and Management Board. And now I would like to ask a few questions to these members of the Board. But I would like to ask you to give me 3 answers, not just read out what the back office sends you, but just talk to us freely and Mr. Hottges, you can do this, you are good speaker. [indiscernible] you are doing this very nicely, and I can only complement you. You really know how to do this, you really turn your shareholders' meeting into a safe event. I really like this. You are doing something for the business, you foster sales, and you also show the press and the public to do something. You're really very convincing. In sales and marketing, you are really very good. Thank you. Mr. [indiscernible] shareholders' meeting is not for cuddling with shareholders, but it is an exchange with the shareholders, the real owners of the company. Please give us your view on this. The headline, the share price of Deutsche Telekom threatens to go down. What is your total debt and what is the interest rate that you have to pay for your debt. Please give us a comprehensive answer because this is a very important topic. And in the past, I sometimes missed a real clear answer on this topic. So perhaps give us real clear statement. Why should we approve of the activities of the Supervisory Board and the Management Board in view of the debt ratio. Do you have the highest debt for all the DAX companies? Are you kings of debt? Do you have a plan to repay your debt? Or are you without a concept here. So here, I also would like to get some more information on this. Well, once upon a time, this is how all the fairytales started. Once upon a time, the share price of Deutsche Telekom was EUR 105. Now it went down. And now at present, we are at a share price of around EUR 22. Mr. Hottges, yes, you did a good job, but it was not very difficult to get the share price up from EUR 18. But nevertheless, it was a good performance you showed in the past 10 years. This is also something that you have to appreciate. But you also have to accept a little bit of criticism and the previous speakers of DSW and SDK and also [indiscernible], he gave a great speech. I'm always surprised by what he can do without a script. Many shareholders lost a lot of money with the Telekom share, but what happened to the shareholders' action against the company. We no longer hear anything about this. Perhaps you can share some information. The shareholders -- I would like to ask the shareholders to support my countermotions. My countermotions and the elections of -- proposal for elections were again censored by the Boards of Management and the Supervisory Board. Mr. Appel, you should do something about it because I'm surprised to see what you made out of my counter motions and my proposals for election. Not once did you mention that there are also other candidates for your Supervisory Board. You got a lot of criticism today from the institutional shareholders, and you did not mention once that there are also other proposals for election. This is not democratic and I do expect you to correct this. I now raise countermotion on Item 1. I would like to have the shareholders meeting in a hybrid form, and you should adjust your shareholders meetings and you should make sure that we have a hybrid meeting so that all the shareholders have the possibility to attend the meeting, also from abroad either physically or virtually. EUR 0.77 of a dividend. This is just ridiculous, compared to the maximum pay of EUR [indiscernible] and this is 35x as much as our Federal Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, gets and he has to answer all the questions raised to him himself without the support of a back office. Frank Appel thrown out by Deutsche Post and flown into Deutsche Telekom. This is how you are presenting yourself to us. That was I have to say. Yes, you do have some good sides. You are normally very fact based, you're not very emotional, you cannot really see what you feel inside. I do like your calm way of leading the meeting. That's also something that I would like to mention here. The Telekom shares insider trade, I didn't find you. Don't you own any Telekom shares, Dr. Frank Appel. For Mr. Hottges, I found 0.5 million of Telekom shares. This is to be praised Mr. Hottges and I'd like to get some more information on insider trades. Well, this is perhaps your private matter, but it might also be public. It would be good if you talked about it, but if members of the Board of Management and the Supervisory Board owns shares of the company, we like it. And then I would like to submit another countermotion regarding the remuneration report. The Supervisory Board should just cut the salaries of the Board of Management by half on a promotion period until they prove that they are up to do their job. And also in times of Corona, the pay was inappropriate and respectless, especially if you even raise your salaries during these times, EUR 9.1 million in maximum pay for the CEO without any pension benefits and extra benefits and there are so many other benefits. This is a whole list. It would take me hours to describe who gets what from where. But this is all in the annual report and you can read about all of the details if you're interested in. EUR 9.1 million maximum pay, this is 460x as much as a salesperson earns, 430x as much as somebody with a minimum wage earns. This is the daily wage -- a daily wage of EUR 43,000. This is really a lot of money that you are earning or that you are getting everyday, not necessarily deserving this. This is more than EUR 5,000 per hour. How do you want to explain this to a normal Telekom employee? And how do you want to justify such salary? And coming back to a comparison. The CEO gets more than 32x the salary as our Federal President, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, and 40x as much as our federal chancellor, Olaf Scholz. And this leads me to the countermotion #3 on Item #3 to reject approval of the actions of the Board of Management. And I would like to see individual votes on individual members. Many shareholders in our area also think that the remuneration report should also be called a fairytale. The Grimm Brothers would really be envious. And we, as shareholders, are always surprised if you as the Chairman of this meeting reduced the speaking time for the shareholders with the excuse that the shareholders' meeting should be over within 4 or 6 hours. The Board of Management members or the Supervisory Board members have an unlimited time for their interventions, but you should also now do some overtime when you're meeting the owners of the company here in the shareholders' meeting.

This was a good comment, Mr. [indiscernible]. You already exceeded your speaking time by 3 minutes.

3 minutes? Well, that's unbelievable.

We're not doing this because we don't want to sit here longer, but because we want to give all the shareholders the possibility to take the floor to get their questions answered. So please come to an end.

Dr. Frank Appel, I already expected this and I'm well prepared for this. That's obvious. So let me just call out to you. In view of the remuneration that you get, you do have to work longer every now and again. And if you -- if I see you what you did to my countermotions and proposals for election, this is incredible. Just go to the Internet and take a look at what is published here. I've 4 candidates and here, the Supervisory Board members were criticized. So please use this and elect my candidates. They are much better, and then there is no so no criticism about the 10 years -- 10 year. They will be fresh and they would really do a great job.

And now Mr. [indiscernible].

Talking about the [indiscernible]. Can you imagine? I can well imagine [indiscernible] behind the plow, with a whip in her hand you in front as the [indiscernible] horse and then you just plow through the streets and you bring in the fiber -- you lay the fiber lines. And then we get some more millions every year probably. Mr. Frank Appel, if you wish so, I will limit myself and I will request the floor another time because we have a counterproposals and so and according to the Shareholders Stock Corporation Act, unlimited time to speak, correct? I will come up with something so that you also get your right and the now that the Annual General Meeting can be finished at [ 15 PM ] sharp. But perhaps, we just add few hours so that you earn your other remuneration.

Mr. [indiscernible], could you please ask your questions.

Well, thank you for your generosity, Dr. Frank Appel, and I wish you good continuation and I'd also like to work [indiscernible]. I also got to know her in other annual general meetings, especially at Allianz, where she spoke at length about me, but I don't bear grudge against her. I can bear that burden. So talk to you later, doctor.

Thank you for your praise. And now we continue with [indiscernible] and afterwards, Mr. [indiscernible]. And after that, we will again answer the questions.

Ladies and gentlemen, and I am talking to all of you. I don't exclude anyone. So this is the first praise earned by the Board that preserved this against this terrible language, mix up and confusion of gender appropriate language [indiscernible] Chairman. I will continue with my thanks. This is real, in my case. And please bear with me that I repeat what several speakers have already said, I'm glad that we are having a face-to-face meeting here. This is not only a question of respecting us shareholders and of respecting the culture of shareholders, but also a question of democracy, the democracy of shareholders. And I think it's astonishing and regrettable that the initial point to hold, be able to hold virtual Annual General Meetings without having a pandemic or a national emergency. So I am glad this is possible. This is an attack to the democracy of shareholders. And I particularly regret that the starting point for that attack to an important part of our democracy was -- or emanated from the federal government -- Federal parliament, the only elected body -- general body that we have. I can only suggest that you read the minutes of July 2020 of that meeting. And apart from the fact that vote took place far after midnight, which is the hour of witchcraft and ghosts. But at the time, there was a lot of [indiscernible] votes against us shareholders, especially us small shareholders. So it's really astonishing to see that politicians reproach their fellow countrymen that they are not being democratic. We're coming here because of democracy. I didn't bring or read a text from Google, but it's really amazing if Members of Parliament who love to eat for free, reproach us of doing so at AGMs. So this is completely [indiscernible] point. It should be rejected. This reminds me a bit of the worry of the lion who loves to eat meat who is complaining that there are carnivore plants. Now according to the motto, everything has been said by everyone, just not by myself. I want to come back to this question of holding these meetings face-to-face. Shares are an important element to secure our old age security and to better distribute wealth. Therefore, I appeal to all of us, myself as well -- myself included, please go into the world and advocate shares. The ownership of shares is so important, not only in our society, but in general, our shares should again be appreciated and valued. More than 60% of tax capital is in foreign hand and not only by some plutocrats, but also in the field of old-age pension funds, firefighters, New York and so on. And the new socialist countries, such as Norway and Sweden, who are well known for their social culture are also putting their stake on shares. And therefore, the shares are very important, and we should advocate them. Now I have some questions for the board, which hopefully can be answered. First of all, I would like to go along with that question regarding the debt situation and the interest burden. And for the time from 2020 to 2023, I would like to have an overview in that regard. Next, what about fulfilling the ratio of persons with disabilities in the company. Has it been fulfilled, overfulfilled, unfulfilled? Please give us exact percentages or provide measures to remedy the situation. Next, I have a question regarding the gender pay gap. How many clearance have you received within the company? And what's the current situation in that regard to Deutsche Telekom? Now next, the question is do you have considered at all how to deal with the lack of qualified staff in that regard, create opportunities for elderly people. And regarding the lack of qualified staff, I'm coming back to the German Parliament, the lower chamber, not to admit that all AGMs without pandemic as a necessity. This shows the lack of our expertise of so at that level? And now I'd like to show this to you. This is in the almanac of the Bonn Jazz Festival. It says, we in Bonn support a multiple offer in terms of music and sports and other events. So what do the Telekom baskets are getting? What are you paying to the Bonn Jazz Festival? And this question not only applies locally here, but also across Germany. And if you have figures on that, I welcome them. We've also spoken about remuneration. And I don't know who looked at the invitation -- the remuneration for the invitation. It's symptomatic that it covers almost half of the entire text of the invitations. And I'm firmly convinced that it is not only this just this crazy Harvard business school jargon, but that the authors of those lines are unable to write this in simple words, subject-verb-object to explain this to us layman. So that should be the idea in the background that a modern new remuneration system should be created. I have no difficulty with high salaries. However, I think that they should be in proportion. Now it is difficult to show and describe these proportions mathematically. I remember that both Telekom and the Post, at some time, both companies were one company in the past, led by a Federal Minister, and there have been made comparisons already regarding state representatives. Now that today, they get a salary of EUR 300,000. There wouldn't die of hunger, but now people are being paid about 55x as much. I think we should to stop this terrible bonus culture. And as an offer to the 21st century, this is a query, a task for the Supervisory Board, let's create a new fixed system. The bonus should be scrapped. And let me give you this a ballpark number, who doesn't work for us -- want to work for us. So EUR 5 million can become a pop star or basketball player or investor banker or whatever, but he shouldn't be walking here at our Deutsche Telekom. I know it's difficult. But let's be innovative. And in the various bodies that's consider the various options, and then we will be able to master the technical difficulties. Now regarding our voting intentions, there's more light than shadow. Therefore, with the exception of the remuneration report, and this integrated [indiscernible] situation, on behalf of my family, especially my wife, I will agree with the other items on the agenda and other proposals.

Thank you for sticking to the speaking time and then to finish up the second round, I'd like to ask Mr. [indiscernible] to speak.

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I'm [indiscernible] shareholder Deutsche Telekom. I will only ask 3 questions. There have been some letters that were sent before Easter and that were left without an answer. And I hope that in the coming days and weeks, you will find the time to add to them because they also have perhaps [indiscernible]. Let me start. Why was the shareholders' letter to the Management Board dated 1st of March, not answered? We have indications here of the prosecutors in Berlin that have found and that have started investigations in that regard. Why was the next shareholders' letter to the Management Board on the 4th of March, not answered and made available, accessible to all shareholders? We also have here the problem of a delay of insolvency proceedings. Why was the letter of the best [indiscernible] lawyers in Germany, not made available to all shareholders? No. If we look at the situation, we have the problem that your supplier is dealing with data of customers of the Deutsche Telekom. We also have the link here to data privacy and the problem of possible violations of data protection of business, secrets and the unauthorized utilization of protected data according to various legal stipulations. The penal code now for all persons. Of course, we assume the lack of absence of guilt, and I hope that in the coming decent weeks, you can answer to these letters. These are conferences letters also from the prosecutors. And regarding tax flow, you've also -- you've already been caught in Germany. I would be pleased to receive an answer in writing. And if this was also shared with other shareholders, there are also penal proceedings in Hanover. And probably your successors have to work on this. Thank you for allowing me the time to speak and I hope that you will receive this charge. And we might meet again over the coming few years.

Thank you, Mr. [indiscernible] for your questions. We will now proceed to answer those questions. I will start with a question raised to the Supervisory Board, [indiscernible] regarding the base salary of Mr. [indiscernible] between 2019 and 2023. It has risen by 42% and then how did the salaries of the employees of Deutsche Telekom evolved in that period? Now the development of the average salaries of the employees of Deutsche Telekom can be seen on Page 26 of the remuneration report. So I don't have to read out long tables and figures, you can see it quite nicely in the report how the development was in comparison to the Management Board members. Now the calculation you made for Mr. [indiscernible] is correct. You may be surprised by the base salary rose from '22 to '23. This is due to a situation that in '22 took [indiscernible] for 1 month. Therefore, the remuneration was reduced because [indiscernible] was unpaid. And this explains the difference between '22 and '23. The Supervisory Board, of course, looks at these topics on a regular basis. And of course, we compare ourselves with other businesses, other companies in our industry and the outcome is that the remuneration of Mr. Hottges is commensurate with those paid in other companies. And therefore, it has been increase in the past years because that remuneration was not always appropriate. So -- and we made that correction and therefore, this remuneration rose. So this is correct And then I would like to remind you how much value was generated by Mr. Hottges and the Board, the EUR 50 billion over the past years. And therefore, the management Board needs to be paid in a way that is competitive in the market, and this is something we have achieved. And this is also the view held by the Supervisory Board. And beyond that, Mr. Hottges is one of the Board Chairman with the longest term and salaries with the -- you tend to increase with your term of office as Chairman and management -- of the Management Board, as is also the case in other companies. So that was for that question.

Okay. Then there was a question regarding network security at T-Mobile U.S. and how the network and the customer data are being protected, especially after the occurrences you have mentioned. First of all, we have a very intensive and close cooperation on both sides of the Atlantic with our so-called security teams who work in Germany, T-Mobile U.S. is part of our group YDT International IT&T security leadership team which meets at regular intervals and has regular exchanges. We cooperate here at this level, we also cooperate with external companies. In addition, the U.S. had their own activities. We have a new [indiscernible] leader that has been hired, a very experienced person from the banking industry, who is now going to restructure the entire area. We strengthened the organization. We hired new staff. We changed the employee structure, and we also changed and adjusted the structures and processes and the entire company after those are currency. In addition, Supervisory Board of the T-Mobile U.S. reports regularly about the progress they made. They have a so-called Domination Governance Committee. And in that committee, the progress made is being discussed and presented. And let me say now just off hand, we have made massive progress in the U.S. regarding IT security. This is recognized -- being recognized both internally as externally. And this is true also against the background that, of course, in the past, we had 2 different companies. We have T-Mobile and Sprint that we need to integrate and the same applies to the IT systems. We are making big progress there, and we are regularly reporting on those 3 internally. Then there was a question regarding AI. I think I spoke about that explicitly today. The core of -- it was a hot piece of my speech. I don't want to repeat all the details I presented. We have some 400 that we're already having. We differentiated between models that we purchased from cell type, where simple takers, then we are -- have models that where we are shapers where the foundation, the large language models are being enriched and trained with our own data and aligned according to our own rules. And then there are malls where we are the makers where we are developing our own AI phone or where we have the model that we are developing with our partner, SK and others are setting up our own telecom-specific LLM. At the same time, we want to be a facilitator. So what we have is AI, we want to make that available to our business customers in the form of a business model so that we can implement -- regenerate sales together with our clients who do not have the capacity and the money to build up their own capacities. This is a very comprehensive topic for us. There is a paper that -- a presentation I made at T-Mobile work congress which you can download on the Internet. Can you -- before you speak about the next question, I forgot to mention who is going to speak after these questions have been answered. So next we would have [ Mr. Markus Dufner ] from the Association of Critical Investors and Mr. [indiscernible]. So just you can prepare yourselves. Thank you.

The next question was what I want to achieve until the end of my current contract. And I remember what [indiscernible] who used to be the coach of Bavaria once used to say, [Foreign Language], German actually meaning I'm not done yet. And the same holds true for me. I still have a lot to do, finishing fiber rollout in Germany and Europe, a question whether we are going to have a convergent business model in the U.S. market leader mobile communications, artificial intelligence, making our management of rejuvenating our management team, modernizing our IT architecture. There's the question of the further enhancement of our brand and its significance for society. And as long as I can help to boost the value added of this company, I will continue and I'm really enjoying it. We've set up an excellent team, a very diverse team as well. And the Board of management, the work on the Board of Management is a lot of fun, even though it sometimes is difficult to find the right way, given the fact that there are so many different opinions. But I dare to say that we are the industry's best team anyway. So I'm thinking about all the tasks I have at hand rather than when I would like to stop. Of course, I am thinking about the future, though. And as for the question of who is going to be my successor. Well, yes, this is a discussion we need to have together with [ Frank Appel ] as Chairman of Supervisory Board, and that will be an issue over the next 2 years. I don't want to end up an old man walking through Deutsche Telekom's halls. Then there was another question on AI. Has that made us more dependent and more vulnerable? Well, yes, of course, this also comes with a risk. But one thing is quite important to note, Deutsche Telekom started issuing guidelines on how to use the Internet as a self-commitment at an early stage. In fact, we were the first company in Germany to do that. And we wanted to give ourselves a framework from how we are handling data. And this is used as a point of reference, also with regards to ethical questions. And of course, customer orientation, transparency, security, getting ready for the future. These are all things that need to be borne in mind. Our security experts are checking things internally. We put internal control mechanisms in place. You need to look into all these things specifically. And yes, we need to be very careful here. But if you are skilled, then you can also prepare yourself for potential negative effects and do something about it. And that's precisely what we are doing in the context of AI.

Mr. [ Speich ] asked about the stake in T-Mobile U.S. that we are striving for. As you know, we gave a guidance to the capital market that did not mention a specific figure, but we said below 50. No, actually above 50, but below 55. At the end of the year, we stood at 50.6. I think we want to give ourselves a bit of a bigger buffer so if it becomes more than 50.6, don't be surprised, whether or not there will be a fundamental change of our stake. This is something that we will discuss at this year's Capital Markets Day in October. Another question was what is -- what are your demands towards the other members of the T-Mobile U.S. Board? Well, we are the biggest shareholder. And I mean, I think the dialogue that we've set up with them is good, whether these are discussions on day-to-day business or the medium-term trend of the business, it's all covered. And I think you've seen that the Americans have always exceeded their targets as they have this year so far. And therefore, we do have a promise that they at least meet their targets, not just in terms of the infrastructure rollout, but it also applies to revenue per customer and a lot of other KPIs. I mean it is for a reason that T-Mobile U.S. is the world's most valuable telecommunications company. Next question was, how can we make sure that we gain a sustainable competitive edge in the U.S. with our network? Well, first of all, we offer the largest 5G coverage, 98%, as we've heard, our speed is about twice the speed as the one offered by AT&T and Verizon, which is proven by test every month. That figure doesn't come from us and the same holds true for customer service. J.D. Power have confirmed that we offer the best customer service. And we are still ahead of others by 12 to 15 months even if we didn't do anything for a longer period of time. We offer different kinds of spectrum. There's also C-band spectrum that we might want to also continue investing in. So therefore, the Americans continue to expand their competitive edge regarding networks. That's part of their value proposition. How do we assess the competitive situation in the U.S.? And how do we want to achieve convergence there? Well, regarding convergence, that's the one million dollar question. And well, convergence, that remains to be seen. There is not a clear trend that would tell us whether convergence is coming or not. In some non-European markets, such as India, we can see a trend towards convergence and others, we don't see that at all in the U.K., for instance, and in the U.S., that question is still open. What we do is we come up with convergent offers called fixed wireless access in the U.S. and we are also looking into the marketing of a fixed network infrastructure in the U.S. And I also wanted to say that there are rumors there about possible transactions, and these are just rumors. We haven't entered into any transactions here. Next question was how do you make sure that the billions of euros invested in fiber will pay off? Well just as Mr. Hottges was saying, the fiber rollout will continue be an issue for the next couple of years, probably beyond 2030. Basically, we need to offer nationwide optical fiber in order to be ready once the demand is there. Right now, we already have a highly efficient super vectoring infrastructure. Last year we had a fixed network market share of 80%, which means that a lot of customers choose Deutsche Telekom deliberately. And in the long run, we need growth in this company. And what we need to do, especially regarding efficiency is, we need to improve in order to meet our financial goals and to have enough money left for our investments in optical fiber. And as for the Americans, they have contracts that make it possible to buy fiber from third-party providers that you can then resell. They are also considering joint ventures as another option, but this has not yet been decided. And yes, this is how this is handled on the other side of the Atlantic. Next question, what security mechanisms did we put in place in order to prepare ourselves for a negative trend in the U.S.? Well, there's no indication for that. Last year, the U.S. increased their guidance 3 times. So there is no precedence really. But we've also seen that the Americans, last year in particular, are always able to respond quickly whenever it's necessary to improve their cost structure, for instance. What they did is they cut 5,000 jobs in the back office roles and in the technology. And the Americans are self-sustained. Don't forget that. They are not funded by Deutsche Telekom, by us, and we have a share buyback program which has an effect of around 1 billion per month. So we would be able to make adjustments in the U.S. anytime if necessary. But I don't see any indication that the U.S. business may take a nose dive. The next question came from [ Mr. Schmit ] on the stake which the German government holds in this company. [ Mr. Smith ], we have no information whatsoever about whether the German government wants to sell part of its stake in this company. Apparently, there are plans to gain proceeds to the tune of EUR 4 billion. Whether or not this will also affect us directly, we don't know. What we can do, however, regarding the share price is that as part of our share buyback program, we can respond by increasing volumes, if necessary. And as we have more free float, this will also be absorbed by the hedge funds, so about 20% of sales volume. But I don't know whether it happens at what dimension and when. Then there was a question on shareholder remuneration. In the future, the Board of management, it does -- the Board of management think that a higher dividend as a more important than other factors. Well, the dividend is based on the adjusted earnings per share. And we have a payout ratio of between 40% to 60%, which will also put to a vote today. Of course, there's always the option of a share buyback as well as an alternative. But we've always said that we decide that from 1 year to the next. There is no mechanism that would automatically determine whether we opt for a higher dividend or for a share buyback. But yes, generally, the dividend is center stage. The next question was about Deutsche Telekom's net debt. Net debt, including leasing, is still above the target range. [ Answer ], we said that we will come out at 2.75 by the end of the year or last year. But then we came out at 2.82. That doesn't sound like a lot, but at least it was EUR 4 billion reduction in net debt, while EBITDA remained flat. So it's quite something. That was at the end of last year. And this also supports our activities in the U.S. and the fiber rollout. And depending on our stake in the U.S., this may also have an effect on our net debt. But I wouldn't say that we are far away from the target range regarding our net debt. So we'll stick with our goal for the end of the year. Then there was another question. The share buyback program looks like you want to undo the capital increase. Doesn't that mean -- doesn't that have a dilution effect? And how do you make sure that the shareholders really benefit from the best network? Well, first of all, the dividend, that's the lion's share of the shareholder remuneration. Then we will decide from one year to the next, whether we want to continue with the share buyback as well. And at what dimension? We believe that our earnings per share -- our adjusted earnings per share will rise by 10% this year, and that will have a positive effect in other fields as well. We'll stick with a payout ratio of 40% to 60%. Right now, we are at around 50%. And we're fine with it. So there is no new policy in place. The next question was, when can we expect the finance and sustainability repos to be consolidated and to happen simultaneously? Well, in 2016, we already adapted our result to the United Nations Sustainability Goals and we give an outlook to what we have achieved and what we failed to achieve. And we won an accolade called the integrated [ SDG ] report in this field. Of course, our reporting in the future will be much more comprehensive in this field than what you've seen so far, and you will see a combined report of sustainability issues and finance KPIs. There is one more, what change do you expect regarding the materiality analysis compared to 2022? Well, our sustainability strategy has been geared to the same criteria for basically 2 decades. We look at what the global reporting initiative requests from us and what other standards are in place. We look at positive and negative trends, a long environment, social issues and human rights and we also look at energy consumption, Scope 3 emissions et cetera. And of course, we will be using the CSRD directive as a guideline. Oh, there is one more. A question on long-term liabilities that increased by EUR 470 million. Question was, how did that come about? EUR 300 million come from the higher provisions for BAM, the health insurer, EUR 100 million come for a higher risk of litigation. But we're not saying that this is really necessary. It's just a precautionary measure, and this explains EUR 400 million out of the EUR 470 million.

Thank you. Let us now continue with the next round of questions. The next speaker is Mr. [ Markus Dufner ] followed by [indiscernible] and most speakers that you can see here on the screen. Mr. Dufner, you have the floor.

Good afternoon. [Foreign Language]. Members of the Supervisory Board, the Board of Management, dear shareholders. I think I covered you all now. My name is Markus Dufner, I'm the Managing Director of the Association, the Umbrella Association of the critical shareholders based in Cologne. And at today's AGM, we are representing more than 275,000 voting rights, mostly from foundations, environmental associations and small investors. And today, I would like to talk about climate protection, supply chain, corporate responsibility, Chinese vendors and job cuts and doping allegations against the T-Mobile cycling chain. Now, whenever technology giants team up, then you can move mountains. That was a headline of an interview that under the heading of responsibility with Saima Ansari, who is a marketing strategist and marketing expert, a brand expert actually in our company. And in this interview, Mr. Ansari, talked about how the company make sure that the company's vendors support the circular economy in order to jointly change the world. And the manager said that there are always risks in connection with Ericsson and other vendors and that these risks definitely need to be covered. She said that such vendors are real giants in the market. And just like any other telecommunications companies, "we rely on them providing us with important network equipment". Well, yes, it's clear that telecom equipment, such as routers, switches, antennas, et cetera, are necessary to build, operate your networks and to offer your customers the best possible network, that goes without saying. And these are a lot of [ saprolites ] here. Maybe we would have to double check whether all these things that you claim are true. Then Mr. Saima Ansari said, "that's why every year, we are buying lots of equipment from our technology vendors." So now ladies and gentlemen, there is an important piece of information. And I quote Mr. Ansari said "but these big vendors also have a major carbon footprint". In order for Deutsche Telekom to reduce its carbon footprint by 55% by 2030, all the vendors need to be brought in, and this is only possible over the next 6 years, if all vendors join in according to Mr. Ansari. Because most of the carbon emission cuts need to happen on the side of the vendors. Well, [indiscernible]. My question to you is, don't you feel that in this way, you are shifting most of the responsibility for the achievement of your environmental goals to your vendors? [indiscernible] also talked about it. And my question is, when will the Board of Management launch an initiative in this field?

It might be a good idea to put as an item on the agenda of next year's AGM, climate protection, something that the shareholders would then be able to vote on. Questions. Please tell us how the carbon footprint of Deutsche Telekom developed between 2022 and 2023? Please tell us about Scope 1, 2 and 3. What vendors in accordance with the scorecard of Deutsche Telekom showed the best performance which the worst performance, which were the biggest shortcomings among vendors, and what was the performance of Huawei? And as we're talking about Huawei and the partial ban of Chinese components in mobile networks, we've heard a lot about that. But still, together with Telefonica and other providers, Deutsche Telekom is criticizing -- sharply criticizing the German government's plan to use or to ban rather network or certain components of Huawei and other Chinese providers in the German core network. This had been agreed also with other countries. Sweden have said that from 2025 on, Chinese components will longer be permissible in the Swedish core network. So you see it's possible. And I think you've had enough time to prepare yourself for such a ban. Why haven't you done so? Mr. Hottges, why is it -- does it not make sense to you that there needs to be a balance between innovation and investment security? How big is the risk that we are suffering from the fact that we are using Chinese components? And what alternative do you see some of the Chinese components were to be banned? Is there a risk for T-Systems in South Africa? I mean, this is a topic that has not been dealt with. Mr. Hottges, today, you have the opportunity to bring our shareholders up to speed here. So give you -- let me give you some background. [indiscernible] means that state resources are distributed to certain clients. T-Systems was the second largest profiting company of safe capture mechanisms and it became known that the Frankfurt General Prosecutor's update investigations against these systems. In this case, is of great interest is shown by the fact that the media have always talked about it. And last year, I asked you whether the Frankfurt general prosecutor gave Deutsche Telekom insight into the documents. And your answer was that Deutsche Telekom or T-Systems have not yet received any information. So my questions, what do your lawyers know about the investigations? When did Deutsche Telekom or T-Systems get view of the documents? There are still investigations ongoing against Deutsche Telekom or T-Systems. When do you expect with the open of criminal proceedings or do you expect it after all? What are the provisions in the case that the state capture case in South Africa proves to be negative for Deutsche Telekom? Patriotic investment and job cuts. Mr. Hottges, how patriotic was the investment of Deutsche Telekom in the past and how patriotic will it be in the future? This is the term you used last year, last summer. This threatened to move investments abroad because of the high prices, but you said that you are still investing patriotically, but the conditions are getting worse and investments abroad could be worth more than in Germany, slight threat here. And you said if the framework conditions don't change, we feel ourselves forced to use our strength in other countries, for example, in the United States, where the revenues in the mobile phone industry is 3x as high as in this country. My questions on this. What do you think about the situation for investments today? What do you plan to invest into Germany in 2024, '25, '26? And how much will you invest into the enlargement of the 5G network? Mr. Hottges, with your boost the program, you want to save costs? Is it really necessary to cut so many jobs, how many jobs will be affected and where exactly will maybe cut? And now doping at Deutsche Telekom and injunctions. At the end of last year, a documentation of Jan Ullrich was in the headlines. Mr. Hottges, of all the other Board members, did you see the documentary on Jan Ullrich and perhaps this reminded you of a negative chapter in the history of T-Systems and Deutsche Telekom? Long before the documentary, it was already clear that Deutsche Telekom is a sponsor of the Deutsche Telekom cycle team was acting negatively and then there was an injunction against speaker publishing this information and you said that somebody was commissioned to go through the hotel rooms in order to collect syringes every day. And if this phrase was repeated, a lot of high fine was blooming. So you can still read about this article in the speaker magazine. Mr. Hottges, starting in 2000, you used to be Managing Director for Finances and Controlling. And then you had a T-Mobile in Germany. And since 2006, you were the head of the T-Home, then you were group CFO. And since 2019, you have been the CEO of Deutsche Telekom. Since when did you think that these allegations were credible? Were you involved against the -- or in the actions against vehicle? If so, why? If not, why not? What do you think about the activities today? Was there any apologies either towards the journalists of the [indiscernible] journalists who reported about it? It was on the 27th of November 2007 that Deutsche Telekom said that they would immediately withdraw from cycling sponsoring, the slogan of Deutsche Telekom always was to hide things instead of really making information available.

Mr. Dufner, you are already 1 minute above your time. Please come to your close.

Yes, last point on Item 8, the newly founded committee for ESG strategic innovation should have the same remuneration as the audit and financial committee because the ESG topic should not be worse paid than the topic finances and auditing.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dufner, and we will now -- well, first of all, I have to tell you something, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Oswald has requested to have individual ratification of the actions of the Supervisory Board meeting members and the management Board members. And if a certain number of shareholders support this motion, we have to take individual votes, whether the quorum is achieved will now be investigated on the basis of the [ HV cards ]. So Mr. Oswald, you and all the shareholders who also would like to see individual ratification of the actions of the Supervisory Board and Management Board members are asked to go to the speaker's registration desk and show their cards so that we can count this. You have 30 minutes to go there. So around about until 7 minutes to 3 and please go to the speakers' registration desk, and I will then give you the results of this before we move to the votes. This is important, I think, in order to make sure that we take into account Mr. Oswald's request. And this now leads us to Mr. [ Will Miller ] and then to [ Savas Georgiadis ]. And then this will be followed by [ Sven Herling ] and finally, Dr. [indiscernible] speaker on this round.

Great to see you again. [Foreign Language] and all the other persons. [indiscernible] situated in [indiscernible] 14A, and I know exactly that I, Mr. [indiscernible] -- that I am Mr. [ Will Muller ]. I welcome all of you, and I'm the Managing Director of an unlimited partner of a company that was founded by my ancestors. I'm representing my own shares and I immediately would like to apply on item 2 of the agenda that unlike your motion, a dividend is not paid in the euro currency, but that it will be paid in the suitable currency by having one or several ordinary shares of the company, [ readable [indiscernible] AG, we bought on the stock exchange and one or several shares of this company should then be paid as a dividend or should be used in a raffle for all the shareholders of Deutsche Telekom. And my reasoning for this counterproposals is that the shares of the company is the most usual means of payment in the world, and I want to establish it like this in the world. And for the [indiscernible] in your invitation, and thus, less important, I would like to apply on item #3 that we will have individual -- that you will have ratification of the actions of the members of the Board of Management. And the reason for this is that I really like this event here today. Then -- and this is even further down in your agenda and this is why it's even less important. I would now like to suggest on Item 4 on the agenda, that none of the members of the Supervisory Board will be approved for the actions. And this counter motion is based on the fact that there is something that I don't like at all. And this is that I am not Mr. Will Muller, but I am [ Wilm Muller ]. And I really can't stand this. On the agenda, I also would like to apply for an additional item to be put on the agenda, and this under miscellaneous. This item on the agenda should make it possible for all the shareholders to either congratulate for the ratification of the activities of the Board members or to submit their protests. That's everything that I wanted to say.

Thank you, Mr. [ Wilm Muller ] and apologies that we did not mention this before, but I welcome you very nicely. And I think it's a pity that you don't want to approve of our activities but we just have to acknowledge this. This is you're right. Then we move on to the next speaker, who will be Mr. [ Savas Georgiadis ]. I hope that I did not mispronounce your name, then [indiscernible]; and then Dr. [ Barbara Grinberg ] before we answer questions again.

Thank you, Dr. [ Appen ]. I am not such a drama player as the previous speaker, but my name is [indiscernible], I just wanted to mention this. And I would like to speak on Item 6 on the agenda, the election of the Supervisory Board members. I would like to make proposal for election. I am not really pleased about what was done so far. I think it's okay. And I think it's okay that you have your own favorite candidates. But for fairness reasons, I also would like you to mention other candidates or possible candidates for the Supervisory Board. And this brings me to my countermotion, first of all, dear participants of this year's shareholders' meeting. Thank you for following my statement very attentively, I decided that I wanted to take the floor here because I would like to suggest myself as a new Supervisory Board member. In order to get a better impression, I would like to present myself, and I try to stick to the time allotted to me. My name is Savas Georgiadis. I was born in Cologne. I grew up in Cologne. And at present, I'm living in [ Ornberg ] with my family. After training as an electrician, I studied electrical engineering with a focus on electronics. In the past 16 years, I have been working as a Managing Director of [indiscernible] [ GmbH ], and I'm supporting the automotive industry and the development of vehicle functions for autonomous driving brakes, steering assistance and others. And I'm also working as a voluntary judge at the financial court in [ Ornberg ]. I'm also a member of several committees at the Chamber of Industry and Commerce on trade and services, but also on securing skilled workers for the future. I would be happy if you supported me as a candidate. I would like to use my experience in the past in the Supervisory Board in order to bring about positive benefits for the company. Thank you very much for the attention. I hope that we will have a fruitful shareholders meeting here.

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. [ Georgiadis ], and thanks for accepting my apologies that I mispronounced your name. Thank you for your coverage to speak up here. And then the next speaker is [ Hulling ], followed by Dr. [ Barbara Rimbach ] Mr. [indiscernible] first.

I first need a glass of water, please? Dear Mr. [indiscernible], dear Mr. [indiscernible]. I can really say "dear Mr. [indiscernible], dear Mr. [indiscernible]" because I wanted to thank you for abolishing apps. I really like it. There was an association at [indiscernible]. Can I tell the people that the app will be shut down? Or is it too early for that? I can't say that? Okay. So I am here today. Well, I asked people here. I come from [indiscernible] and it's difficult for me to talk here because I'm quite nervous. I got some criticism when I went to the shareholders meeting of the [indiscernible] and I praised Deutsche Telekom at that time because this shock is in mall, and the mall is [indiscernible] and I asked the managing director to shut down the store and I asked you, Mr. Hottges, if you think about also ask the shop in the water front. It's invested with [indiscernible] also ask this shop to be closed down. But this is something that you have to decide for yourself. But now another question. I've got a question to Mr. Hottges and Dr. [indiscernible]. I'm not quite sure you said that we have complaints of this, and I ask people here whether I can ask this question. And if you say, no, this is not opportune here. I want to follow the rules here then you can say, no, I don't want to talk about it. It's about the boxes here, such a box in [indiscernible] I really like it. I really want to speed up a little bit. I'm very nervous, I have to tell you. So if you won't pass these boxes in [indiscernible], there is a helmet up there. There are these little [indiscernible]. Could you also mention this in a different way, graffiti, full of rubbish and dirt. Can you also imagine this? This is why I protect the Deutsche Telekom in the meeting. I hope you understand all this. I would like to ask you to -- if you think about it, that you also think about closing the shop at the waterfront because it's [indiscernible]. And I want to mention something else. I have a little problem. I've got some sort of a problem with the payment of the share price. I am partially retired and a partially retired person, I can get some money from the social office and other pensioners can also get extra money because the increase was brought about by bitcoins and I can't fight against bitcoins. Otherwise, I am forced to go to the social office to the legal office and to get some money, but now they are only paying my rent. I have another 6 minutes. Well, I'm really speaking here without any scripts. And I'm not reading out anything. And I would like to ask for something else, Mr. [indiscernible]. I come from [indiscernible], and I just want to know how much policies are here because you said that here, the federal government also is part of the company. So is this a party? Is this part state owned and the other half is sold on the Internet? I don't really know about this because in [indiscernible], there is a housing company. They are trying have to start to be part state-owned and part -- well, how can I say this? Privately owned. And I do have some problems with this. I don't like it very much because this will only be to the detriment of the shareholders because many companies, unfortunately, no longer have any money. So Mr. [indiscernible], thank you. A big, big thank you. I also thank you for the EUR 0.77 and I hope that when -- well with the bitcoin that this increases EUR 200 that we will get to EUR 2.77 or slightly more because of the, bitcoins, it's getting more and more. And -- well, then the pension is here will also profit from that because at [indiscernible], they talked about the pensions based on shares and this is not possible at present. It was promised to them by the politicians in the federal state that they could get their pensions based on shares, but most the companies who are not paying any dividends, any money, they just say, we don't have any money. Please don't laugh about me. I will be finished very soon Mr. [indiscernible]. I hope I did it right. I hope it was right to say this personally to you with boxes here. This is very important and now you have to take a decision yourself how you want to deal with this. And now I would like to spend my last first 4 minutes saying the following. Well, I come from [indiscernible] as you know, and our Mayor was accused of crimes against humanity on Facebook. So if you're on Facebook -- well, you don't get money from them. You don't get a cent of them. I can tell you what I got.

Please talk about our topics here.

Yes, yes, this is part of your topics. I'll make it short. I wanted to ask you, will you give me a tablet? Unfortunately, mine was destroyed, and I would be very happy. So I would like to have an [ SM tablet ], which costs more than EUR 1,000. And if the apps are the shut down, it will no longer be worth anything. So I would be very happy about it Mr. Hottges so I wish you all the best and I would like to ask you to really go undercover come to Bremen and to take a close look at what is happening there, do not show this publicly, just go there undercover so that nobody recognizes you. And Mr. [ Adel ] I would like to ask you to do the same thing if you are willing to do so. And if you have time to do so. This is very important because it's about shareholders, and I really tried at [indiscernible] to praise your company, and I hope that you are grateful to me and that you reward me for that. And I'm really very grateful for your applause because I wouldn't know how you respond. Well, I think this is really important. I didn't know that I that I was on a meeting of [indiscernible] because it was [indiscernible] economy is calm. And on the Internet, they were said that they are a communication and Internet company. And suddenly, I was sitting there in this meeting, and we do know where I was and one for sentence on the Internet, I was really a very big, big fan. Well, I thought the Internet is great. It's great movies, great music, but now no, I no longer think that because there are people who now want to own the Internet, and they ask the citizens to pay a fee, in addition to their fee and their Internet costs, they have to pay more and more money because these gentlemen just said "Hey, hey, hey" and they were just rubbing their hands, and I also did this "ha ha ha" when I got Facebook, and I was dancing, I can now go to the U.S. No, I didn't get anything. But just to close this, I wanted to thank you and I will also communicate to the Managing Director of [ Posi ] that their app would be dead. And if you want to give me a tablet because I was -- my tablet was destroyed by a party and they don't want to give me a new one, although they've got enough money based on bitcoins just as our mayor and he was at Markus Lanz. I've got another 50 seconds. He was at the Markus Lanz broadcasting show, you will still find it under the media library of ZDF and ARD. This is in the magenta box or however you call it. So, I go into streams for these gentlemen with [indiscernible] contacted me that I should go to part of a fair and I do this. I think it's from they get what they want and I hope you support me because I really like it, and I hope that you support me as well, Mr. Hottges, please also talk to the broadcasting station so that I can advertise for you there. That's everything one more sentence. No, no, Mr. Hottges, if you leave us -- well, you are still in my heart. We have always been good friends. And if you give me a tablet, then it's great. And please go undercover and come to Bremen and check these cabinets. Thank you for this press.

I'd like to remind all speakers that the 10 minutes is not a target number, but a maximum number. You don't have to utilize all the 10 minutes. It can be brief, which would be in the interest of all participants. And the next speaker is Dr. [ Dr Barbara Glenbeck ]. My request nevertheless, so that I don't have to restrict speaking time even more. Please remain below those 10 minutes. Thank you. Dr. Barbara Glenbeck, nice to have you here again.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm glad that you are pleased about my coming, what was not so nice is that only have 10 minutes or even less to speak -- you know, sometimes women just take a bit longer. And actually, it starts right away with some criticism. In your speech, you said yourself that you're master at listening, are you trying to listen to tackle things and try to improve the world. But this does not include your saying from the start that the AGM should last only 3 to 5 or 6 hours, it is dependent on how many participants you have here at this AGM. And you said it would be nice to have a dialogue with the shareholders, a critical one, but also one that gives room for improvement. So it might take a bit longer. On the one hand, you said future needs growth and therefore, investments, but if you want to be successful, then it would be really positive, not to pay an extraordinary dividend because more money would remain within the company, equity would increase and thus liquidity. And therefore, then also your operating would improve, it's not so great right now. Somewhere in the management report, I saw BBB or BBB+, there is better than that, also of other companies. On top of that, investments and being successful in the future includes as I repeatedly told you a different salary system for both the Management Board and the Supervisory Board. I said this repeatedly in the past because you as you're sitting here as Boards are quite a big good cost factor, you said that Germany has the highest wage costs than Europe and actually it's in the world and that really impacts competition and your competitive position massively. But it also has something to do with your remuneration in the Board, which goes into the millions. It's good to have a face-to-face meeting here with that dialogue. But as I said, limiting speaking time is not something nice. Moreover, yes, talking about constructive discussions. And you kind of dealt with my multiple applications in a much nicer way. Why didn't you even start by trying to implement the salary system I have proposed because that's a decisive factor because to put it bluntly, you're all state employees in the end. And if you put that into relation with what Minister or ministerial employee gets or state secretary, then you're overpaid also in relation to a Minister who gets a bit more. And I believe that you should really consider my proposal and then check my proposal against your salaries and implement my proposal. In the context of transparency, you've been talking about and it's also mentioned in the management report. I think it said that you no longer have the external presence. In the past, there used to be buses, which displayed advertisements of your products, and we no longer have the various information stand in the 4 years that we used to have before the COVID crisis that would have given us some nice insights. Then we had this nice introduction by Mr. [indiscernible], who presented the new app, something that my -- the previous speaker spoke about regarding that check queries, but it's not so new at all. We've had this at the WAZ, the Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper, local newspaper. They have kind of this for the last 4 to 5 years. You can query those and then you get -- you call them, you get the automatic voice that responds to you repeat your question or at least the key elements of your question and aspects whether it got it right or not. So it's not so new at all. The same applies to health insurers who have a similar query system or have you been advised by them. Then you were talking about your construction sites, optical fiber, AI regarding different lines and so on. If you are going to use that system since when have you been using it? I think it was questionable. There has been an explosion, the house exploded in Bochum at the South west of in Linden when the optical fibers were laid, the house has exploded. There was one person died and then there were 2, I believe, who were severely injured. And then you're saying that with trucks and buses, you've been driving more than 140 kilometers to Germany, making billions of pictures, taken billions of photos. So actually imitated Google by collecting pictures, picture frames, and I would be pleased if you could send me a print out, first of all, of the streets that I live on in Bochum and then perhaps also send me a nice picture of my home. That would be a nice thing to do. On the other hand, you also said your appreciation of the shareholders is important. Yes, I can only repeat myself, appreciation of the shareholders is not compatible with limiting speaking time. It is not compatible either with not allowing a vote on changes of -- or increases of the salaries of your Board. The shareholders can vote on the other items, capital -- increase of capital and so on, shares and participation rights. And the same should be possible in connection with your salary increases and not only regarding report about them. Now I received the 310 pages of the management report in paper. It contains a lot of things, but I didn't find a single page, which displayed the salaries of the Management Board members and the Supervisory Board members. Neither the fixed salaries nor the variable remuneration. They are not contained in the print version that I received. Now in the context of your Security Committee, you said you not mentioned the persons that are included there. Now one person who has been on this committee for a long time, is going to leave as far as word, but will remain there and take on an advisory position. Now for [indiscernible], does he also gets such a position. Now in the context of civil engineering, you said you have the approval to use reduced heights. How deep are they? What's the normal depth and what's the reduced depth and what's the cost of both of them. Furthermore, on transparency. I don't think it's a nice thing. If you look at the telephone register on CD RAM or in the Internet. For instance, the address with telephone number of Deutsche Telekom is not contained. They contain only either private customers and advisers and perhaps a cell phone number. But just one single number, nothing else. The general address of the group headquarters is not listed. Okay. I already spoke about salaries. Next, you repeatedly underline how valuable the brand of Deutsche Telekom is but actually, it's only a virtual value. You cannot sell the company. It is to improve your immaterial assets or intangible assets, and that helps you with the credit rating, but the rating, but nothing else. Furthermore, in the Page 27 of the management report, you're talking about more than 80,000 antennas, what's the power consumption of those antennas. On Page 28, you're talking about Euro gate. Well, Eurokai was the overarching stock-listed company. What's your relation to those? Did Dr. [ Ekaron ] contact you? Or did you contact him, Page 28. You're talking about Canvas networks, was that a tender on award due to EU contracts? Or did you apply as a national -- submitted tender as a national provider in Germany? And then you're also speaking about the Federal Army IT regarding tank communication in operations and satellite use and the mishandled conference call that foreign agents were able to listen in to. Now in the context of your Canvas networks on Page 29, you're talking about the industry frequencies. But actually, we used to have this around 1980. At the time, we called them fixed or permanent lines between headquarters and the various subsidiaries and operations where you were able to clearly receive respective revenues and [ sales ]. Now I exceeded my time. I saw that. On Page 34, transport, you're talking about value generation. What do you mean by this? Forwarding agencies, papers and so on are the various sites of loading and unloading. What do you mean on Page 38, 57, about paid customers, the figures that are paying later? Do you mean me, I pay my connection fee and then afterwards the units I've consumed. What does it mean on Page 42 in the context of catastrophes and telephone for free, will there not be any phone charges in that context. Page 88, you are talking about 100% green power you're using also in the U.S. This, I think, is a big lie. If you're looking at the German power market or electricity market with gas-generated electricity and so on. And then in the U.S., you even have the oil sands, which are used to generate electricity. And furthermore, we're saying that no end devices are leased out anymore in the U.S. What were those these devices, routers, telephones or whatever, what were these. Now what's the cost of the dismantling of the telephone or phone -- cell and how many of those are -- do we have in Germany? And what's the cost of dismantling them. And on the 4th of April, we had an article in the local newspaper regarding cell towers in natural protection areas. And how far have you been considered nature protection, nature conservation in that regard. And then if you're definitely generating profits, those profits should be divided by 4 of 1/4, this includes August as well, should be paid out for the advisers or reserve for advisers and so on. Bonuses, then 1/4 for maintenance and repairs, 1/4 for 1 quarter for dividends and 1/4 as provisions for crisis and such like. Now regarding the salary remuneration system for management board members, you should consider that it is certainly feasible because you has formally scheduled post office, German postal services, you had major structural changes because there was a differentiation then at some stage between the Deutsche Telekom and the postal service and that was further modified and there was the transition from being civil servants to being employed staff and import the other modification that occurs as in the same manner that we no longer have, telegrams and so on. You should take that into consideration, I believe. And we should consider that you are not the owners of the company, you are perhaps to a certain extent because some of you do hold shares. But actually, you are employees and almost state employees and the SME entrepreneur as a shared company is looking for a new Managing Director. And if that person doesn't come up with results after some time, then they get warnings and rating and then he will -- she has to leave. So we should consider this as well. If we are talking about remuneration of the management board. And then we're talking about thresholds for social security for the various parts, sickness insurance, social security and care insurance -- and then you have those honorary contracts, several millions, if you work well, but you have to pay taxes on that and [ it's yourself ].

I expressly ask you to come to an end. You've had the longest speaking time by far, but in the interest of everyone, I'd like you to limit yourself.

And she should take all that into consideration EUR 1 billion of your bonuses actually employees and some of you or many of you, they get less as a salary, but they contribute more to economic growth than you. I keep up my application and I thank you for allowing me to speak a little bit longer. I wish you all the best, and please do consider my proposal in dividend because all those bonus systems, this can continue in Germany. The same as the pension, insurances and pension payments have been shortened and similar measures are going to be implemented. Thank you.

Thank you for having finished your remarks. Ms. [ Glenbeck, ] I can inform you now as announced, that the term now of 30 minutes has elapsed regarding the obtained quorum on the proposal mentioned earlier on. Now in the light of the request to speak, I see myself forced to further limit the speaking time. therefore, limit the speaking time of the coming speakers to 5 minutes. I hope you can understand this. Furthermore, now let me look for this here. I would like to ask you that in 15 minutes' time, I can close the list of speakers, that would be a quarter past 3. So 3:15 p.m. I would close the list of speakers. So if you wish to take the floor, please file your request at the speaker registration desk so that we can allow everyone to have a word. Now we will now answer the last questions. I will start with Mr. [ Beckendorf ] who have 2 questions. How detailed -- did you look at the succession planning Mr. Hottges. Mr. Beckendorf, of course, this is an ongoing topic for the Supervisory Board, especially for the procedural committee. We're informing ourselves on a constant basis about our talents, I keep having talks with employees and leaders at the respective levels to see how qualified our staff is to see and know what type of potential do we have within our group. We look at different criteria according age for instance, how long managed board members can remain on the Board. And of course, the Supervisory Board and myself, we are aware that Mr. Hottges has a contract until the end of '26. So we are always in discussions on how are we going to search a successful successor for Mr. Hottges and what criteria are we going to use? But I'm sure that given the outstanding position of the company, I believe that within that period, of time, we will find a very qualified successor. The next question is what are the reasons why the target remuneration has been adjusted once again in 2023 compared to 2022. I already mentioned that, that was due to the sabbatical. There was no salary increase with a technical effect. Why were the target values for the target achievement of decreasing energy consumption was above the numbers for 2022. When determining the values for T-Mobile U.S. We've been told by the back office that they don't understand that because according to the remuneration report, the target values for 2023 are below the level of 2022. And that's because the vision level 2023 did not include T-Mobile U.S. And then you said that there are many questions on the remuneration report. The approval rate for the remuneration report 2022 was something like 92%, but last year was slightly above the year before that. so much for Mr. [ Beckendorf's ] questions on remuneration. And Mr. [ Evila ] ask the following question. What's the question about 31 Supervisory Board meetings. And these were plenary and nonplenary sessions, 8 of them were virtual meetings and 23 of these meetings were physical meetings. Individual Supervisory Board members were granted permission to attend some of the physical meetings virtually, but the large number of meetings were completely held face-to-face. Mr. Hottges?

I would like to briefly answer Mr. [ Hollings ] question. sorry, have -- have I forgotten to mention the next -- to mention the next speakers. Okay. So [indiscernible] is going to be the next speaker after this Q&A. Mr. Hollings question referred to a building in Bremen a store there. And thanks to fairy [ Abu Hassan ] who's in charge of service we know exactly what this situation is all about. So what -- you talked about rats in the building. And in fact, we've done a lot of things to actually fight the rats we brought in an exterminator, we use poison, et cetera. So you can see that our Board members even know about such a case where one of our stores is battling rats. The second topic was multifunctional cabinets and casings, which are often dirty. And that is a nuisance that we come across lots of times in Germany. We are spending a lot of time to retrofit and renovate these cabinets and nowadays, we often put telecom information on these cabinets. So whenever we roll out fiber in a region or wherever we improve 5G coverage, we use such space for advertising. And it's good, too, because this is sort of our business card, if you will, and that's why we're really annoyed to see vandalism whenever our cabinets are treated badly. Well, I'm afraid I can't follow your request to give you a tablet for free. If we do that, the next year around, we have another 20,000 shareholders who want the same. Now Mr. [ Beckendorf's ] question on the T-Systems. And you asked whether they are still part of the group and will continue to be a member of the group. Well, we've put T-Systems on a new footing. And that starts with IT service, AI, security services, cloud services, digitization services, these are things that we offer our customers personalized services in the area of software. And we've seen a good EBITDA growth and a positive cash flow at T-Systems last year. And in this, we created a basis a sound foundation, so to speak. I mean this likely will never become a multibillion business, but we are doing -- we are making EUR 5 billion in revenues nowadays. We have a good footprint in Germany and other European countries, a good international footprint with customers wherever they are also outside of Europe, and we'll continue to evolve that business because we believe that companies much more rely on digitization now than they used to. In terms of revenue and market share, we are among the large operators in Germany, but internationally, we are a smaller player. And we look at 2 factors as central factors for establishing ourselves successfully in the long run in this segment, namely, we always need to have people on site, we are not serving our customers from, say, India or so we always have German-speaking staff on site who support their customers right there. And this is also reflected in customer satisfaction. The TRI M value stands at over 90%, which is excellent by way of comparison, and that is also to do with the fact that we are so close to the customer. At the same time, we offer a high level of stability and reliability. Maybe that's somehow made in Germany that comes with a claim. And we have a high level of security failure -- failure security, rather, and with digitalization and cloud business becoming ever more prominent, we will continue to support our business customers here. So we stand by our, we will stick with our T-Systems business. Then you asked about the new fiber customers as opposed to customers with an old contract. The fiber rollout is a long-term project. Like I said, we are rolling out the infrastructure for the next couple of decades. I always say, 3 generations after me will still light a candle for us in the church, thinking as for rolling out the infrastructure for the future now. And customers will be able to use it for their digitization purposes in the future. And we are not only focusing on metropolitan areas, but also on rural areas where traditionally, we have a large market share as well. The premarketing for fiber is part of our toolbox, but it is not the only factor. It doesn't matter whether we achieve 30% or 50% of premarketing. Once we've decided to rollout fiber in an area, we try to sell it as best as we can, but it is not necessary to first have a fixed number of customers in order to then continue with the rollout. Then you asked about my further plans for my life, well, I think I've already answered that. Then Mr. Schmidt asked about the number of our subsidiaries. We have 379 affiliated fully consolidated companies and 70 associated companies and other investments, meaning companies that Deutsche Telekom does not hold a majority in or not any more partnerships, et cetera. Given the international footprint we have, these numbers make sense. Mr. Schmidt then you asked whether the artificial intelligence is an integral part of our strategy to become the leading digital telco. Answer, yes it is. And what's the role of the Magenta smart speaker in this context? Well, we took the smart speaker off the market because it simply wasn't successful. Maybe it will come back at some stage, but we did not develop the technology for the speaker in vain anyway when you're using your TV and you take your remote control in your hands, then you can use this very voice assistant to call up programs, to search movies and to ask questions, meaning the technology we use for the smart speaker is still in use, only in connection with our Magenta TV platform. And those of you who haven't tested it yet, you might want to do it because it's a great service and often makes it much easier to search something on your TV. Mr. [ Evila ] you asked them what future election -- a possible selection of Donald Trump as new President would mean for us. Well, that's hard to answer as the Trump team have not yet published the cornerstones of their plans, we don't know. But traditionally, the Republican camp stand for a more liberal approach. And the business combination of Sprint and T-Mobile U.S. was under a Republican leadership. The Democrats actually rejected it. So therefore, we, as a group benefited from that. And we were not the only ones. The American people also benefited from it because they now have the top 5G coverage, which was one of the obligations we had to enter into when doing this transaction. Then you asked what kind of policy will a possible Trump administration pursue vis-a-vis Deutsche Telekom? Well, we don't know. There are certain procedures in place that may govern that. And so far, we've always fared well. Okay. A question from Mr. Hansmann after a transfer of 49 million shares to SoftBank, are there going to be more dilution effects in connection with the Sprint integration. The answer clearly is no. I mean there's always a dilution effect in the form of the management compensation because the U.S. team is also paid in the form of shares. But this is something that existed even long before we even talked about the merger, at the time where T-Mobile U.S. was still a stand-alone company. Second question, how do we assess the complaints, the complaint by consumers against T-Mobile US. This is a class action. For those of you who don't know, there are customers from AT&T and Verizon, and they sued T-Mobile saying that as a result of the combination -- the business combination with Sprint, AT&T and Verizon had to increase their prices. Now we don't think that this has any merit, but the complaint was admitted and we're not expecting any negative outcome or a negative ruling. Incidentally, we as -- I mean, we are no longer part of this trial to begin with. Then there was a question about the market, question about the market capitalization of DTAG as compared to T-Mobile U.S. Is the share buyback program and the compensation for the Board of Management adequate. Answer, last year, we launched a 15-month program with a volume of up to USD 19 billion includes $3.75 billion in dividends being paid or that we would get in part and another $15.22 billion in the form of share buybacks. So we have maximum flexibility. We can sell into the share buyback, for instance, which is what we are doing right now. And the cash that we're getting can be invested either to reduce our net debt or to support our own share buyback. And this was another question that came up. The question was what is the target stake in T-Mobile U.S. that we hold in U.S.? Well, we could increase it, of course. The question is why is the -- why does T-Mobile U.S. have a better rating than DTAG? That's a difficult question. We believe that in the Telecommunications segment, the U.S. are the world's most attractive market. We have a homogeneous market with [indiscernible] market, we have a much higher ARPU, less regulation all in the United States, and that plays a role. I mean if we had a formula for doing the same here, we would use it, but these are probably the main reasons why T-Mobile U.S. has a better rating than DTAG. Then there was the last question on [ Lumos ]. These were just rumors in the press. And no decision has been made by the U.S. team on it. So I can't tell you what the financial implications from that may be. Then we said that as a strategic goal, we want to safeguard the strategic majority in T-Mobile. The question was, does it then make sense to sell into the share buyback? Answer, there's generally no risk of us losing those shares. We can always stop the buyback of T-Mobile shares, which would mean that our share would go up. At the same time, we have access to 6.7 million shares from SoftBank at a given price that -- and right now, the share stands at around $160. In addition, we have access to EUR 28 million share options from SoftBank based on market prices. So yes. I mean there's no risk that we might be losing the majority in T-Mobile U.S. share whatsoever. Then the next question was why has the Sprint fixed network business been sold to Cogent. And have we done this to meet regulatory requirements. Well, in the wake of the merger with Sprint, we also acquired Sprint's fixed network business, which was very much loss-making. So we did the math and it turned out that selling that business was more economically viable, which is why we sold it, including liabilities to the tune of EUR 600 million. Then Mr. Oswald asked about amount of liabilities plus interest. At the end of last year, that was EUR 132 billion, and interest payments amounted to EUR 5.5 billion worldwide. Then Mr. Beckendorf asked a question, the shareholding in DG Towers and the impairment. Well, that was described in the management summary. We said that the operating outlook of the business has actually improved rather than deteriorated. And we said that the business is likely to grow and the valuation increased by 7.68%. And if the WACC comes down again and if a business develops as planned, then we can do a markup again right up to the amount of the proceeds. Then you asked about sales in the market at T-Mobile U.S. I already said that we are selling into the share buyback in the U.S. also to use the proceeds to bring our own net debt down. But we are not going to put the consolidation in the U.S. and jeopardy through that whatsoever.

Okay. Well, there are more open questions, but as it is already quarter past 3, let me tell you that we have now closed the speakers list, and we are not going to accept any further requests for the floor that are newly registered.

Getting back to Oswald, on item 3, Mr. Oswald requested that approval of the members only be granted individually. Now shareholders representing part of the shareholder capital supported that. But in accordance with the statutory requirements, the necessary quorum was not achieved, which is why it is not necessary to only grant approval to the actions of the members here individually. Mr. Oswald then demanded the same for the members of the Supervisory Board. Beforehand, we are talking about the members of the Board of Management. Again, a certain number of shareholders supported this request, but let me state here for the record that on in accordance with the statutory requirements, a quorum was not reached, which means that it is not necessary to vote on approval of the actions of the Supervisory Board members individually. We can do that collectively, both for the Supervisory Board and for the Board of Management.

Now let's continue with the next speakers the names will be shown here on the screen in a moment. I take it. Can I remind speakers to stick with their 5-minute speaking time, please? Mr. [ Ku Michel, ] are you here? If Mr. [ Ku Michel ] is not in the room. We will then move on to Mrs. Costa Hillen, then Mr. [ Hansoff ] and then Mr. [ Eberhard ].

Good afternoon, everybody. It's my first shareholders' meeting ever, and I think it's highly interesting. It's really great to see the truth being told here. I didn't really expect it here. My question refers to 5G and the health risks involved. Mr. Hottges, earlier on this morning, you said that 5G is good for the customers. This is what I noted down. With AI, we can recognize cancer and future needs transparency. And there were other quotes from your speech. And I have to say, today, we are talking a lot about money, we are talking about the future, about shares. What is missing here is the human factor, although you said that human beings are important. I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother and I am always happy for every tower, which is not built because I'm firmly convinced of the fact that all these towers are of health risk. This is something that you can read even at the website of the radiation protection agency that it cannot be excluded that there are health risks involved. The WHO in 2011, already said that it's -- it might be carcinogenic or promoting cancer. Do you also take this into account topics such as radiation protection, when you talk about 5G, we are talking about electromagnetic radiation frequency. Some of you might know that electromagnetic weapons are already used in wars, there is microwave pistol that was already developed in 1992, in the [ taz ] newspaper, you find a report that this weapon can result in psychological and psychic damage, disturbances of the mind. How are you observing this? I work a lot in the forest, in nature. I can see that many trees are dying, that many trees are destroyed, and many forests are cut with the idea that the radiation will reach people more quickly. I think it's pity how much is destroyed. So this is a very important question for me. And what is the ratio between fiber and 5G, fiber is deep in the earth, not only 20 centimeters deep would probably help avoid a little bit of 5G. And this morning, in your charts, you said 6G, did I see this right? Were you talking about 6G, "wow oh my god," then we will be dying even faster. And then there is a second question. There are rumors that there are 10,000 telecom employees who are not working on a project. It means that 10,000 civil servants will get their salary sit at home and don't have any work. Is that really true? Are there so many people without a project that still get their salaries? And how much money are you spending on them. And then knowledge is something that you always have to get. This is what I want to tell the audience. So always ask questions. Ask, ask, ask until you get the answers. Thank you for your attention.

Thank you. Before Mr. Oswald, will take over I can already answer 2 of his questions. You asked whether I have telecom shares. Yes, I do have a significant amount of telecom shares, but I bought all of them before I became Chairman of the Supervisory Board, and I did not buy any new shares. So I do own shares but I didn't buy any new ones since I took office. And then what did you do about my countermotions and proposals for election. It was not mentioned, and this is not democratic. We published your countermotions and the proposals for election on the website, and we are treating them in line with the legal requirements.

And Mr. Oswald, you asked many more questions, but we will answer them later on. But now you've got the floor for the second round of questions.

I can see the clock is ticking already. I think it's not good that you are again shortening the speaking time. Mrs. [ Glenbeck ] made a comment already, and I also proposed her as a candidate for election. She knows how to speak, and this would be new candidate nobody who is depending on you. You should also perhaps listen to a woman every now and again.

I'm really surprised of what you are doing here, we see a restriction of speaking time. I can remember during the corona pandemic, shareholders could ask 50, 100, 150 questions. Mr. [ Lina ], I saw you. I welcome you. Can you still remember me. There used to be speakers asking hundreds of questions.

Yes. Well, and the shareholders' rights were better protected at that time. It's inappropriate what you are doing here. But let me now. Well, -- now my mouse is missing, last time I forgot to bring my glasses, but perhaps you can give me my mouse. I wasn't talking about a mice in your telecom stores. I also have mice in my garden, and I always catch them. And release them again in the forest, perhaps one of them reached your stores. Well, I would like to make another motion Mr. Frank Appel so that you are also busy. I'm just scrolling through my computer now, there is this wonderful Stock Corporation Act, and I love hearing your voice, you are speaking so nicely. And this is why now I would like to put forward the motion that you, Mr. Frank Appel. Well, I now raise the counter motion #3, the Chairman of the meeting should slowly, carefully and clearly read out the results of the vote so that all the shareholders can easily understand and ambiguously perceive the results of the vote. Over and over again, when I listen to the vote results, 99%, I am really starting shivering. Is it really possible to get as a result of 99% or last time, I think you even said it's 99.6%. This was not even possible for Putin, he only got 87%. And the notary public didn't see him, is he there somewhere, yes, you are there, just a notary public, I also would like to welcome you of course. Well, I would like to speed up a little bit. Otherwise, Dr. Frank Appel will get a fit here. We would love to have look into the IT system together with you in order to get some more knowledge of the IT system because the thing about 99.6% is incredible, and it's not possible to have these election results. Just imagine, there are shareholders who have 1%, 2% or 3% of the share. If for example, one shareholder holds 3%, and we have presence -- well normally 50% of shareholders are present for Deutsche Telekom it's slightly more and then the 3% if there is a 50% presence are basically 6% and then it's not possible to get only 99%, but only 94% is possible. But probably, you have to have a PhD to understand this, but it's really not sounding very credible if you are always insisting on 99.6%. So I would like to ask you to show me the IT system in detail or are you also authorized and do you have the knowledge, can you really go into the systems and check whether the results that are presented are actually right? And you can give me your answer personally, I would be grateful for your answer. No answer here. No answers also is sort of promising. And the strong boss has strong employees. Weak bosses, weak employees.

Mr. [ Oswald ], your 5 minutes are over already. So please come to a close.

It's always difficult with you, Dr. [ Aput ]. It's difficult with you. Coming back to the remuneration. You're raising the remuneration over double again. You were the CEO at [indiscernible] and Mr. [ Nicolas ] from [indiscernible] was this Chairman of the Supervisory Board. He is the remuneration professor. He actually managed under your auspices to raise his salary 5x in a single year by 100%. It's incredible, and this is then called the horizontal remuneration spiral. We are not as shareholders meeting of Deutsche Post the HL. I know. I know that we are not there, but this is just a comparison and the remuneration spiral is just heated up and you then justify your remuneration by saying that there are even higher elsewhere and you are saying that it should always be like this.

Thank you very much for your generosity Mr. Aput. I would like to say goodbye to you.

Then let me ask again with Mr. [ Ko Michel ]. [indiscernible] Ko Michel is now in the room. He also wanted to take the floor, but this is not the case, so we will now continue with Mr. [ Ibara Erisman ] before we answer some questions again.

Okay. 5 minutes are running. And I also wanted to make a comment concerning the speaker's time. There were complaints that there are restrictions, but now I think that there are at least 30 speakers during a shareholders' meeting. And if everybody speaks only 1 minute longer than expected, this will make the shareholders meeting longer by half an hour. And if they speak 2 minutes longer, this is already an hour. So I don't know how to do this now 4.5 minutes. So the first question, well, this was a question regarding artificial intelligence and how far this could get out of hand so that the artificial intelligence gets controlled about us because [ carbenetics ] should not control us, but we want to control carbenetics. We want to control technology. But Mr. Hottges already said that there are some security mechanisms built in there. And the second point, data protection. Here, I found if I go to the Magenta cloud that there is a field where you can approve cookies and you can either approve essential cookies or all cookies. Now if you accept all, then this means that you accept that people get access to your device and to process the data and that this can be also sent to third-party countries, for example, the United States. Now last year, we had the 10-year anniversary of the MSA affair. So now the question is, what are the risks involved? And I also saw it outside, there was also a text shown at a computer. Well, now we still have Joe Biden, but you never know. Perhaps it will be Donald Trump's soon. But it's also about other countries. Perhaps some of the information is just -- reach other countries. So it's always said, for example, when I go to the Magenta cloud, this was about the question of data protection. So how safe is it so that you do not, in some way, really have data going to countries where the Mafia is strong? Third point, when competition was established in 1998, 26 years ago, we had the case that we, as Deutsche Telekom, had to make available our lines to the competitors at a price which was lower than the cost or the service. Now Mr. Hottges, if I remember correctly, said is -- that something similar is now it's booming that those persons who leaves are at an advantage over those who own line. So now I have asked this question over and over again during the shareholders' meeting and Mr. Obermann said a few years ago that this is a distortion of competition, that we were forced to make our lines available at dumping prices and that the competitors, of course, did not want to invest into their own networks. So my question is, is this threatening again that we are forced to make a loss? Okay, 4 minutes were enough for me. Thank you.

And this was my last speech here in my decade of life because during the next shareholders' meeting, I will be old. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Erisman. Let me ask again whether Mr. [ De Markel ] is still here. Otherwise, we would delete him from the speakers list. Well, I can't see anything right now. So we will answer some questions again. And after the answers, we will then have Mr. [indiscernible] and then Mr. [ Ute ]. But first of all, we will asker some questions. Mr. Oswald, you ask another question addressed to me, is that Mr. Hottges is EUR 43,000 per day, EUR 5,000 per hour. How do you want to explain this to a normal telecom employee?

Well, I already told you that we take a look at remuneration intensively over and over again. And of course, the size and the importance of the company is playing a role here because we want to get the best management members for the company, and this is only possible if we have the best remuneration. And as you know, we lost one of the members of the Management Board. We would have loved to keep Mr Adel Al-Saleh but we are happy to have found a great successor, but it's our obligation to appropriately pay the Board members. And this means in comparison to other companies in Europe. I don't even want to talk about companies in [indiscernible]. And this is why the Supervisory Board is deeply convinced of the fact that the remuneration that we offer today is the right remuneration for the Board of Management. And I hand over to Mr. Hottges for further answers.

Thank you very much. I now come to a difficult question raised. Mr. Schmitt. He asked how the omnichannel sales are developing in Germany and Europe, and whether the balance between the capitalization of Europe and of U.S. are changing. Well for omnichannel sales, it's about sales in one channel, for example, shop and then a new sale in another channel. So the core center made the first -- get the first advice and then the shop makes the deal. The advisory and the contracts are happening in different systems. In Germany, we generate about EUR 1.3 billion of revenues with new customers and existing customers and B2B customers in the same year and EUR 90 million of this 1.3 million transactions, 7% are transactions where the advisory and the contract happened in different channels. In the Europe business, Dominique Leroy's business, it's similar. But this does not have any impact on the ratio regarding the market capitalization between T-Mobile, U.S. and our German Deutsche Telekom. And then somebody asked about the number of countries Deutsche Telekom is present in, of course, the focus of our business where we have our network interest structure are in the U.S., T-Mobile U.S. and in the European countries, but especially due to systems which companies, our European customers worldwide. We are also present in other countries in Brazil, in Mexico. So all in all, we have a footprint of more than 50 countries in the world. And then you also ask what are the -- what will be the impact on the share price if KFW sells its shares. My colleague, Mr. Christian Illek already explained this in detail. This would just be mere speculation. I don't know. I would have wished for this to happen as soon as possible so that we've got clarity again and that we don't have this overhang looming on our share, but our major shareholder will probably act responsibly.

Then what about the mobile connections along the railroad lines?

I was talking about the flagship dock in some years ago. We did a lot since then in Deutsche Bahn and the project of supplying mobile connection and all the railway lines, it's -- we made a lot of progress. We've got 20 -- well, our agreed target for all the long-distance tracks were achieved. And also for the smaller tracks in 2023, we mainly reached our targets, and this was far ahead of the date that we announced, but we are not happy with that yet. We are still working together with Deutsche Bahn to improve the mobile phone connections in the train, but not only depend on the masts and towers, but this also requires some changes in the trains. The Deutsche Bahn currently is working on a project for laser and coated windows so that the radio signals from outside come into each wagon so that we do not need repeating [ weapons ]. There were clear improvement, which was also shown in the tests. But this project is here to stay with -- because it's not easy to have a good coverage in all tunnels and at all lines. Mr. [ Ebel ], you asked about human-to-human communication, for example, with disabled people in spite of artificial intelligence. Well, I hope I could get it cross during my speech how important our employees are for us. This was the most simple point in my speech. If I didn't get across the message that we are inclusive, it really didn't across that. We also include severely disabled people who are an important part of our workforce and I'm in touch regularly with representatives of severely disabled people. If it's about accessibility in our buildings, a new agreement on inclusion that we renewed in 2022. And if it's about inclusion, offices and inclusion support in our company, I think we are a role model at Deutsche Telekom based on our responsibilities, our history, but also our understanding of ourselves. We want to integrate any type of minority, and this also holds for true for severely disabled people. We now have 7.6% of disabled people working in the company. The legal requirements outperformed significantly.

Mr. Oswald raised the question in the context of the AGM with a [indiscernible] and -- now let me read this out with my colleague said, you're not here for the first time, Mr. [indiscernible]. You're a regular customer here at our telecom AGMs. Was it your feeling that we don't take you seriously, you our shareholders?

I can assure you also from my side, we are having this face-to-face meeting because we're taking you seriously. We're having the face-to-face AGM because it's important to report on our business transparently, this is -- this shows our appreciation of our shareholders and everyone has the possibility to speak about the matters that are relevant. And we appreciate the exchange with each and every one of you. For us, this is a lived culture shareholder culture. We are every time looking forward to this AGM. Furthermore, Mr. Oswald, you asked, did you -- did we invest in our shares. And I said I've invested in more than 500,000 shares, but I actually have clearly more because since the beginning of my time here at Deutsche Telekom, next year, 25 years, every year, I invest, reinvest in Deutsche Telekom. I think it makes sense that the Chairman, our CEO, invests in the own business and feels like the owner of that business then he will do the right things and take the right decisions. And now publishing Mr. [ Allah ], publishing your letters regarding GMV companies. The information that you have provided to us, we took note of this. And not only today, but it is a matter that we have been dealing for quite some time. With regard to the information provided by you, we furthermore still have not detected any violations on the part of the Deutsche Telekom or any need for action by us. Please understand that regarding matters that are beyond that concern with our matter. We cannot be involved as Deutsche Telekom and will not wish to be involved in as Deutsche Telekom.

Okay. I'll now continue the question of Mr. [indiscernible] regarding the financial liabilities of Deutsche Telekom, how we're going to reduce them in after terms.

We're looking at a different figure, the ratio of our net debt liabilities and the revenue. This is ratio and increasing EBITDA leads us to a reduction of that. Nevertheless, in 2023, we reduced the debt by EUR 10 billion in absolute figures, mainly due to the sale of the cell towers. And this then led to the situation that we have an indebtedness ratio where we are at the upper level of our intended target of 2.75. And it has been mentioned repeatedly. The Americans are doing about 2/3 -- our accounting about 2.3% -- 2/3 of the EBITDA contribution, but they account for 75% of the bid. Now regarding the additional bonuses, patient -- employees and our schemes occurs through certain programs. It's called shares to you. All employees can take part in that and become shareholders themselves. And within 3 years for 2 shares purchased, they will be given one for free by Deutsche Telekom. And of course, they're also participating in the dividend payout. Now for the leading leaders, there is an additional scheme. Now the question of Mr. Oswald regarding the debt level. And similar to what I just regarding Mr. [ Abler ], we are reducing our indebtedness via the increasing EBITDA, not by reducing the debt in absolute figures. And currently, this has led to a situation where we're actually quite well on track, 3.07% with an indebtedness. At the end of '23, you're seeing that this indebtedness is going down. And this is also appreciated by the rating agency. We have now a B+ with all the -- BBB+. So this is -- will proceed as well. Then you asked a question regarding the complaints by shareholders. I think this is the prospectus liability proceedings regarding the third IPO. We presented this in 2021. This was also approved by the court. We have come to an agreement with most complainants. And where we haven't, we have made corresponding provisions.

I have a question from Mr. [ Duffner ]. He asked about the development of the emissions in our value chain in the 2 previous years.

We had emissions on scope 1, 2 and 3 in '22, which stood at about 12,000 kilotons CO2 equivalent. And in '23, we had 10,700 CO2 equivalents. Now I'm giving you the exact values now, but you can also read them up in the report. Scope of one 212 kilotons in 2022, down to 199 kilotons of scope 2 from 21 ton to 18 kilotons in 2023. And now the biggest contribution to our footprint, which happens in the supply chain, meaning the production of the hardware produced by our suppliers and the use on the part of our customers and development scope three 11,800 kilotons in 2022, went down to 10,500 kilotons in 2023.

Your next question growth in the direction of purchasing climate protection equipment of the network suppliers. Aren't you moving a major proportion of the responsibility for climate protection to the equipment providers?

Since we are purchasing our equipment on the world markets, we can only jointly achieve our climate production goals together with the providers and suppliers. Therefore, we are using a so-called scorecard with the most important information about our suppliers' products at the end of the life cycle, how much is being recycled and so on. Now we ourselves are constantly investing in new network technology, thus optimizing the energy efficiency of our devices and equipment and our CO2 footprint in Scope 1 and 2. We're going down to 0. Currently, we're very much trying to reduce our own energy consumption and the rest that remains recovering that with renewable energy. Scope 3, we want to achieve the same thing, but we need the supplies for that and, of course, the consumers. We want to optimize technology. And once we've completed the switched off copper only have the optical fiber network, we have a huge potential for saving energy consumption in our network and in our group. And by taking over data centers that we're running for our business customers, we are relieving the burden of the customers for their CO2 footprint. So we're taking that on and on the whole, are optimizing the energy footprint of industry in our partners. Furthermore, you're asking about the vendors and the footprint of Huawei. Huawei is one of the participants in this entire structure where we're defining exactly with our suppliers and discussing how to reduce CO2 emissions with respective devices. I can assure you that Huawei with its attendance is one of the most energy-efficient suppliers that we are currently using in the field of antennas. And then you asked why we're not going to prohibit high-risk suppliers in the core network, why we aren't prepared for that. Now let me repeat this and reiterate it. They don't need a legally binding prohibition of high-risk suppliers. Deutsche Telekom -- as Deutsche Telekom, we have decided very early that in a safety critical elements of our network, we're not using any components of risk countries. Of course, we are using U.S. suppliers who support us. And the current political discussion in the press does not refer to the core network or the IP aggregation network, but the so-called RAN, R-A-N, the access node networks. So those antennas on the rooftops. And here with the open RAN technology, we're focusing on a technology, which in future will make us much more independent from current suppliers and will offer additional procurement possibilities outside of China or Europe. Let's think about Korea, for instance, or Japan.

Okay. Let's go to now with the next speakers. First of all, we have Mr. [ Udo Hutter ], then Mr. [ Rainer Martin Helmand ] and then Mr. [ Thomas Kushner ]. And let me start with Mr. Udo Hutter.

Dr. Appel, ladies and gentlemen of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board, dear shareholders, I'm Udo Hutter and I represent my own shares and the shares of third parties. I see 4 minutes, 46 seconds here on the clock, and I would like to complain to you, Mr. Appel as Chairman of this AGM because you're treating shareholders unequally with their right to speak. I already requested to speak, and then you allocate the second round to Mr. Oswald before I was able to start with my first contribution. And this inequality is not acceptable. Now what's important in the shareholders' meeting, especially if it's happening face-to-face. First of all, what the Management Board says that's important, what other speakers say here from the audience. But what's extremely important is how we as owners and you as shareholders react to what the management Board presents to us and what the speakers say by appreciating what you say or by applauding or rejecting what you say. And that's a major sign of this face-to-face or hybrid AGM, no one sees and hears that reaction in a virtual AGM. So it's absolutely correct that you continue on this path to either a face-to-face meeting or in a hybrid form to discuss with us very openly. Mr. [ Herkes ], you raised one point today at the very beginning. And I don't want to be switched off after 3 minutes here. I want to have the same speaking time accorded to me that the other speakers or the speakers at the beginning had so that I can say what I have to say. You spoke about AI as an important element, major element for future development of Deutsche Telekom. I would like to say that what's more important is human intelligence in the company and to promote that. If you've seen this over the past 20 years, we, as shareholders, really suffered from the fact of what happened with Deutsche Telekom 20 years ago. Deutsche Telekom was a ruined company with share price of EUR 6 and EUR 7. And only afterwards, when Professor [ Lina ] and good managed members put telecom back on its feet. We -- that we, as shareholders, have the opportunity to benefit from this. This would never have been possible if Dr. Lina and the Group Management Board and the good supervisory hadn't done this major ground work and hadn't made it possible that Deutsche Telekom comes back from that trough, from that ruinous phase and stands today now with very good results. And I would like to thank Professor Lina most cordially also on behalf of all shareholders that he has made this possible. There are clear differences between companies that are holding Annual General Meetings. On the one hand, there are companies that focus on virtual meetings, virtual AGMs. And you can observe, especially this year, which companies are doing so. The companies that are holding their AGMs in presence, face-to-face, are showing respect towards shareholders. Often those are the companies that have good results to show for. On the other hand, we have the problems where there are other companies that have poor results or that are dependent on other parent companies fear or shy away from taking on the responsibility in those face-to-face discussions. And I would like to speak to the representatives of the federal government, who are here on the Supervisory Board. And I would like to advocate this topic that this -- be picked up again by German politicians. Originally, the German legislature wanted to create some rules during the COVID crisis to allow resolutions to be passed. So they enabled AGMs to be conducted virtually. But this is being abused meanwhile, especially by companies that are dependent on other parent companies in order to avoid negative discussions or complaints by shareholders. And this is a point that needs to be changed again. And at the same time, I would like to appeal to the voting rights advisers. Originally, they decided to agree to those changes in the [indiscernible] only for certain situations where it is not allowed to hold these AGMs in presence, face-to-face, due to the COVID pandemic or otherwise. And they were convinced by the German Institute for Shares by letter that those -- they agreed to holding virtual AGMs even without the need of pandemics or similar. And next time status are going to be changed, that should be limited to 5 or 6 years. And these matters should not be decided against the wish -- the explicit wish of the shareholders. More than 50% favor the face-to-face AGMs and you shouldn't counteract that. Another major point, Mr. Illek, I would like to take you to task here on that matter. We were talking about the indebtedness of the company. Last year, we had the outstanding free cash flow due to the sale of the cell towers, and we had the special effect, which reduced the liabilities by about EUR 10 billion. But we are looking further ahead into the future for 2024 and '25, we can only expect a free cash flow of some EUR 8 billion. That's what the analysts expect. And if we expect the dividend to remain more or less the same at about 70%, this takes about another EUR 4 billion, so that -- this leaves just about EUR 4 billion to pay back debt. And I'd like to hear a plan or a sketch from you today what you are proposed to plan for the next 3 or 4 years to increase the debt, reduce the debt, maintain it. And what means you want to generate for that? And how do you want to give us the assurance that we will move away from the tight indebtedness. We have the debt in the U.S., and we have the high cash flow there from there. But that will not be a thing that will go on in the future with competition in the U.S. Verizon ITT and aren't resting on their laurels and are not sleeping. We've had a growth market and this allowed us to achieve the huge cash flow, but it's not assured for the future. And I would like to hear a few words from you what the situation is with our competitors at present. What are Verizon doing, AT&T, T-Mobile perhaps to attack again? And they might try to win customers back from us and that might not allow us to maintain the growth. And that, again, would not allow us to reduce indebtedness. I'd like to hear about your plan a bit in more concrete terms, and you've done so far so that we get a better idea of the situation there. What's also important for us, private shareholders, are not unimportant for a company. Many stock corporations are focusing on institutional investors, but institutional investors are often foreign investors. And I can only underline what Mr. [ Strachan ] said earlier on. Foreign investors participated out of proportion in the value generation of our company, politicians still haven't understood it. Politicians still -- let me put it this way, they don't understand that creation of wealth and insurance income in old age is only possible if the German economy generates profit and that profit can be distributed. Private old age insurance with shares is something that was started but only very timidly and it almost failed again. This is something politicians don't understand. Please, as a company, deal positively with the private investors, as you've done in the past. Advocate this publicly.

Yes, you asked for 5 minutes, not 10.

Thank you for Mr. Appel, for again, interrupting me, but that's not necessary. I think the audience would like to hear another few sentences from my side, and I'll be quick. And my appeal was -- I'm not saying Appel, but my appeal was that you become active again. For instance, we have the German association for the protection of investors that you advocate in those for the telecom share. The more people participate in the company by means of shares, the bigger we will be our purchasing power in Germany and the more reliable our income and old age. Thank you for your attention, especially to you, Dr. Appel, I'd like to thank you for your patience.

Thank you. So next, we have Mr. Rainer Martin Hamish and Thomas Kushner and [indiscernible] But let me start with Mr. Rainer Martin Hamish.

Thank you for giving me the floor. My name is Martin Hamish. I'm a very small investor, so I'm only representing my own shares here. Sometimes, I'm also a spokesperson of the SDK. And I would just like to mention that the German Protective Association for shareholdings was mentioned here, SDK, my association can also offer that. I just meant to mention that. I spent the first 2 hours at my computer this morning following the perfectly hybrid format of the shareholders' meeting online. And I would like to really say a word of praise here. I very much liked it. And it's nice to see just how full of life this shareholders' meeting is. Mr. Hottges, this is what I very much like about you. Not only do you know how to motivate people, but you really spice things up and I find that quite impressive. And please continue along these lines. Now here's a little but. What I didn't quite understand this morning, but I'm sure you'll be able to explain it to me is, well, you said that AI is important. You mentioned an avatar, an AI avatar. You also talked about a chatbot. And then there was this lady or a gentleman who was supposed to solve your problem. And I thought it was quite remarkable when this computer voice was asking whether the router, whether it would be okay for the router to be restarted in order to solve the problem, which actually is a good idea. Then the chatbot also asked whether you, as a customer, accept that your Internet connection is disconnected for a moment, including the call. So that happened, but the call was still ongoing. So how did that work technically? I didn't quite understand it, and maybe you could explain it to me. And I felt that, I don't know, you were trying to wind me up, but maybe -- yes.

There is an explanation. And at any rate, there is no way around for us to dealing with this AI and hopefully it will be more of an advantage than a disadvantage. And then there was something that I thought was quite funny. Your vehicles have traveled the distance of 140,000 kilometers in Germany, figuring out the right spots for the fiber rollout. And I mean, as you know, there are the ESG topics. And I think on the pictures of your vehicles, I only saw combustion vehicles. I don't think there were any vehicles running on electricity or hydrogen or something like that or combustion.

Have you ever thought of optimizing that a little bit? I know that these are not usually the kind of things that we like to discuss at the shareholders' meeting, but I don't really want to deal with all those numbers on net debt, et cetera, as the previous speakers. Instead, I just wanted to mention the fact that you might want to use more environmentally friendly vehicles for these 140,000 kilometers here in Germany for your fiber rollout. Then you talked about providers of the Western world. I always understood that telecom is fighting racism and is fighting for freedom of opinion, you are fighting against fake news and things like that. The company has always made it clear where it stands. But then you said -- you referred to yourself as a provider from the western world, and that doesn't sound so open after all. Maybe you could comment on that. Maybe there's something I misunderstood. I don't mean to trigger a political debate here, but I thought the way it was phrased was slightly unfortunate, but maybe you meant it in a completely different way and in the same context, you said and Dr. Illek also referred to it that there are providers such as Syntel, Huawei, and others that sometimes are not quite so unproblematic. And at this point, I would like to briefly refer to Mr. [ Smettle ], who used to be the German chancellor and the eves dropping scandal that we had with the American spec then. And now we are working with the Americans as well. And I think we should be somehow sensitized. And to wrap up, and I know that we're under time pressure here, Dr. Appel. I would like to just come back to one topic that Dr. Illek briefly mentioned, namely the third IPO. And we've heard about the prospectus liability. And in the management report, you also referred to that. And it turns out that in the meantime, you've been able to reach out of court settlements with almost all plaintiffs. Maybe you could specify that a little bit. I think you could give us the exact numbers in millions or so. And you said that originally, it was EUR 78 million plus interest. Now if you calculate that over a 20-year period, then that's quite a bit. So it will be nice if you could give us the detailed numbers here. And I mean, I'm guessing there are more potential plaintiffs, people you might want to also enter into an out-of-court settlement. And you only sent the offer to the plaintiff 6 months after making the promise in November of '21. And since then, we've seen various dividends paid out. We've seen a rise in interest rates. So I wonder how do you intend to deal with all that interest? I mean there may be still the odd plaintiff who's willing to enter into an out-of-court settlement. And then maybe he is paid, I don't know, 3 dividends plus interest. That would still be an acceptable amount overall, I guess? It would be nice if you could tell us that. And then maybe there won't even be the final complaint. And you said that this is just a very low risk. How so because actually the Federal Court of Justice issued quite a clear ruling and that ruling is based on the amounts involved. I will leave it at that. Thank you for listening. And thank you for your answers in advance, and I wish you every success. And Mr. Hottges, once again, carry on. It really makes fun following you and seeing that you are so motivated.

Thank you, Mr. Hemi. The next speaker is Mr. [ Kushner ] followed by [ Joseph Stover ].

Good afternoon. My name is Thomas Kushner, I'm a shareholder, private shareholder and I saw that it says here, T, we are the network. So infrastructure and the network. That's what the T stands for. And my question or my appeal is this. Mr. Hottges in his speech, many times, he said we are the greatest. And in terms of numbers, we are better than all our competitors combined. And he said we are the #1 network and network coverage is the best. And the Board keeps on telling us how great the network coverage is in Germany, obviously, network coverage from T-Mobile. The thing is though, there are still a lot of white spots in our mobile network in Germany. But Telecom doesn't see that because telecom only looks at the number of households and against the number of people who live in this country, and that's how you come up at a network coverage of over 90%. You might want to calculate the actual network coverage against the backdrop of the size, the area of the Federal Republic of Germany. And I'm not talking about 4G, 5G, fiber or copper. I'm talking about the standard network that you can use to issue an emergency call, for instance, let's say, U.S. somewhere in a remote area, in a forest where nobody actually lives. Why don't we look at such spots as well? After all, Telekom is a company that has very strong ties to the German government as well. So I wonder, I mean, there are 2 disadvantages. Of course, it comes at a higher cost to offer 100% network coverage. And at the same time, as a large company, you bear a great deal of responsibility to cover the whole of Germany, the entire area. And there is a disadvantage to it that Mr. Hottges also mentioned, namely that because Deutsche Telekom is the greatest operator, competitors can use its network at lower prices. So my proposal, one possible option may be that you are starting with the 2G network. So let's say, when I'm in a forest, then I don't care whether I'm using E-Plus or any other provider to make a phone call. If I have to place an emergency call, then I don't care what provider I can use for that. It should be possible. That's the main thing, even in remote areas where telecom is not making a lot of money with it. What I'm saying is in every area in Germany, one provider at least should be obliged to ensure an adequate level of coverage. That's my proposal. And I just meant to ask you whether you are satisfied with the previous way of calculating the level of coverage. And what you have to say about my proposal here on how to recalculate it.

Thank you very much, Mr. Kushner, and this brings us to Joseph Stover.

Good afternoon to the entire team here. And I would like to praise the whole loan team. We've learned that usually you say, thank you when you get something for free or to someone who does something as a volunteer and well, I mean, at Telekom, employees are paid decently, including the Board, I guess. And anyone who knows me knows that I believe that the work of a cleaning woman is just as important as the work of a Board member at Deutsche Telekom. Special praise goes to Mr. Hottges. You will remember or may remember, what I said last time. I said America is a very difficult place for German companies. But there is one -- there are positive examples of Chrysler, for instance, and Mercedes. I mean, they initially were successful, but then basically sank $14 billion back then. But you have learned from the mistakes made by others. You have set up a business combination in the U.S., and the business is working very well. It is profitable. So I am critical towards America myself. I'm being quite frank about that. And for me, ideally, all profits would be transferred from the U.S. to Germany. But at any rate, I would like to praise the way you've set up that business. Now there's one thing that got me a little concerned. People in this country now have started talking about using shares for people's pensions. And I was amazed to hear that from the liberals in Germany. I don't know. It looks as if we don't have enough funds for that, Mr. Hottges. So if shares are really used to fund people's pensions in the future, then the Telekom share will certainly also play a role for that. We should just bear that in mind. And the Telekom share initially was sold as the people's stock was a long time ago. And back then, we had a red, green government. And nowadays, I don't think we would still call it that. But at any rate, you have managed to actually make it into -- to make it a successful people's stock. However, in -- with regards to the work in the U.S., some things also seem to be going in the wrong direction. And there are a lot of losses. I mean, VW, they had some experience in that area EUR 30 billion is all I'll say. And yesterday, I heard on the radio that, that was about COVID. A lady and AstraZeneca, she sued AstraZeneca because she said that she had suffered some damage after vaccination. She said that she suffered a thrombosis after the vaccination and almost died. Part of her intestines had to be removed and -- I mean, I don't know if this lady would have been able to even sue that company in Germany. I mean, imagine, if you do that sort of thing in the U.S., then you can sue the company for as much as 250 million in the U.S., that is. And I wonder, we used to have a basic in a lot of green teachers in the past. Today, it's a lot of lawyers. And I wonder, why don't we have laws in Germany that make it possible to sue companies the same way here as you can sue them in the United States. And if it's EUR 2 million here, then probably it would be EUR 2 billion in the U.S. Just mentioning the [ wirecard ] scandal and you know the scandal that [ Olafson ] Chancellor is involved in, that's another case in point. Now back to another subject. Telecom is developing software again. And at the last but one shareholders meeting, that was the time when this unfortunate Ukraine war was started. And back then, we developed some software in Russia. And back then, we still have 2,000 employees in Russia. What has become of these employees? Have these employees come to Germany, who is now developing that software? And by the way, this is something that I've seen with several store corporations. Apparently, the Russians are very act when it comes to developing software. And one software developer, once told me that that the Russians are completely stupid, but that they are good software developers. Now talking about lack of skilled labor at Telekom. Do you also have that problem? Do you have a problem finding skilled labor in IT or elsewhere? It's a problem that we can see all over the world. There has been a lot of reports on health and mental health. And according to one report, I read one in 5 employees got sick because they suffered from mental health issues. So what do you do to make sure that your employees remain mentally healthy, so to speak? Then somebody mentioned [ Huawei ] and the EU took some massive steps against China and Huawei, but then Telekom still relies on Huawei to some extent. And last year [ Mr. Lima ] from the [ CSU], a member of Parliament. He's also takes a very -- how can we say that? I have to watch my tongue here, but let's say he was fairly critical of Russia, and he also criticized China saying that China had been using balloons for to -- for spying purposes. But then one of our ministers went to China and just with photograph with a panda and stuff. And I wonder, I mean, why would you allow someone to just be shown with a toy Panda. Our foreign minister [indiscernible]. She went to an automotive trade firm and explaining to the entire automotive industry that it would be necessary for them to withdraw from China. Well, that but won't be possible.

Can I ask that you come to an end with your statements?

Thank you for listening. Well, maybe I'll make my statement earlier on next year so that I have the full 10 minutes.

Thank you. Today, it's not really easy to handle this AGM in an efficient way. Now we have the last 3 speakers. Please stick with your 5-minute speaking time. So the next no, first, we'll answer the previous question.

I still have one of Mr. [indiscernible] question. He asked about the newly founded committee for ESG and said that this should have the same remuneration as the Finance and Audit Committee because -- the topic of ESG should be well paid. Thank you for wanting to give us more money, but the Supervisory Board had an intensive discussion about it. ESG is a very important topic. And as is shown in our publications 40 pages are doted on ESG and personnel. So you can see that it's very important to us, but we also have to say that ESG, the Audit Committee requires a lot of work, and this is why the Supervisory Board such that ESG should have the same relevance as the Executive Committee. I hope that you understand this. But nevertheless, thank you very much, Mr. [ Duffner ] for even suggesting that we should get more for the activities in the ESG committee. And now over to Mr. [indiscernible], please.

Mr. [ Muller ] had questions on cycling and especially the injunction against the [ speaker ] magazine. This injunction is 25 years ago, Mr. Muller. The cycling commitment was stopped 17 years ago. And this was in line with a very comprehensive investigation work and we supported all the investigation authorities very much. And in the following shareholders' meetings, we made statements on the topic of cycling over and over again. So please bear with us that we cannot go into details on this topic that is a long time ago. And the former communication Boss, Mr. [indiscernible] also publicly apologized what the [ speaker ] journalists. And I also would like to clearly say that we never try to conceal everything we did. Quite on the contrary, we dealt openly with everything that happened, and we drew some consequences, and we then also withdrew from the cycling sport, unfortunately. And it was definitely very bad for the generation of cyclists following that such an important sponsor withdrew from their sports. A question by Ms. [ Grinberg], you asked about the photograph of your house taken on the basis of the AI car. We clarified this. We checked this, and this is possible based on artificial intelligence, and it's also very quick to do. The street that you mentioned in [indiscernible] was not photographed by the [indiscernible] yet. So there, unfortunately, there is no photograph of your house in our database. But we will keep dealing with this and perhaps we will drive past your home at some point in time. Mrs. [ Grunbeck], you also asked about civil engineering and what is the micro trenching and what does it cost? Well, the normal trench is 30 centimeters wide, 60 centimeters deep and micro trenching is only 30 to 45-centimeters deep and has width of 15 centimeters. So it's 20% cheaper than the standard trenching. So why Germany still has the integrated rules? You have to go the 60 centimeters deep and 30 centimeters wide? It does not only damage our roads in Germany, but it costs a lot of money. It doesn't exist anywhere else in Europe, but sometimes, it's difficult in Germany. Then Mrs. [ Grinberg ] asked about the mobile phone standards and asked what the average electricity consumption of an antenna is 14,230 kilowatt hours is the average requirement for a mobile phone antenna. So they need a lot of electricity, and this is why we are trying to do some projects where we've got batteries where we can charge the batteries overnight and use the electricity over night or have solar cells close to the mobile phone antennas to get some support, but this technology is not mature enough yet. If you think that we've got 80,000 antennas, this is 1.1 gigawatt hours that we need in this area, and this is quite a lot of electricity needed.

Okay. Then I can continue with one of Mr. [ Striann's ] questions on the gender pay gap. On the topic of gender pay gap, we had 63 requests and 448 questions since 2013. On the topic of equal pay, we have been doing the equal-pay check since 2018, which is also checked by the authorities. Until now, we don't have any indication telling us that we have a discrimination here. Second question on our indebtedness. Well, I do the financial debt without the digits after the comma. In 2021, EUR [ 220 million ]; and in 2023, EUR 123 [ billion ]. So the interest paid was EUR 4.4 million. 5.0, 5.4 -- and 5.5 billion in the respective years, and most of the interest is be paid in the United States EUR 4.5 million. And now the question on skilled workers in how far we've got a program for pensioners, for retirees. We don't have any. But last year, we had 10,700 new recruitments in the business, 4,000 in Germany. Tim [ Hedges ] already mentioned it. We've got about 5,400 trainees in training at Deutsche Telekom and 635,000 qualification days or training days in the European business which is almost 5 working days per employee. So we are well equipped and well positioned in order to meet the challenges of the lack of skilled workers. Then you also asked about sponsoring costs just on the fly. We've got sponsoring costs of EUR 65 million in Germany. This is part of our communication mix. It's not only sports but it's also cultural sponsorship, musical sponsorship. You might remember the Telekom festival or our Jazz Festival and for the bond side, for culture and sports, including Telekom baskets, we spend about EUR 5 million per year. Question by Mr. [indiscernible] which vendors are well assessed based on our scorecards? The answer might sound very simple. All of them have a good score because otherwise, they would be on the list. So those who don't meet our standards will no longer be used as vendors and will no longer be taken into account in our ESG scorecards. So all have good or at least appropriate standard. Next question regarding the balance between security and innovation when we choose the components of Huawei. I think just banning these components for political reasons would not be a good idea. I already mentioned this. We always have to see both sides of the metal. If we don't want to be lagging behind in technologies, we have to be aware of new technologies, existing all around the world in all sectors. And you also asked a question regarding financial risk because of Chinese components, vendors. If you take a look at procurement and vendors, the value risk is between EUR 200 million and EUR 500 million max for the group. We have tied capital of EUR 450 billion. It's relatively little. As an absolute figure, it might sound very high. Then you asked for alternative suppliers for network components. I already mentioned [ Open RAN ] technology now opens up new vendors to us next to Nokia and Ericsson, whom we are using already. There are suppliers such as Samsung, Toshiba and others that are now also possible for our network infrastructure. So we've got plenty of opportunities to use other antenna service providers. Then you also asked about the Booster program. Is it really necessary to cut 2,000 jobs, where exactly? And how will they be cut? Well, we have to be aware of the fact if a company like us invest EUR 173 billion a year, then we have to do everything in order to have a good efficiency in our company at the highest level. And to really keep good cash flow so that we can also continue to invest into the infrastructure for our company in the future. We are doing this and we had a project testing the cost structures, especially in our [ board ] and headquarters. And these were classical cost types such as how many office rooms do we have? How much square meters in office space do we have? How many people do we employ and what are our HR costs? The largest levers in this program is the rightsizing of office space, the reduction of IT costs, the use of digitization, the quantification and automation of the centralized data structures, the optimization of our procurement, the reduction of HR costs, leaner organizations and flatter hierarchies and all this taken together was the Booster program and we handle this in a socially compatible way for all the affected people. But let me tell you very clearly, in Germany, we have a disadvantage in wages compared to other countries, and we've got clearly high -- more highly paid people compared to our competitors, Vodafone and Eins&Eins and we have to come up with a higher productivity. Otherwise, we will lose out vis-a-vis our peers. And this is just the plain truth that we have to see. And this also means that we have to go for these efficiency programs, which are not fun but they are necessary. Then you also asked about state capture. The investigations by the Frankfurt General prosecutor still is ongoing. We are cooperating with the investigation authorities. We don't know anything about the current status [ GTAG ] antisystems have not received any insight into the documents. We are building provisions based on the legal requirements as far as is necessary. And we will keep you up to speed on this situation. Okay, then last 3 speakers: [indiscernible] and finally, Frederick [indiscernible] again. First of all, Mr. [ Amin Klein], please.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It fits in with the last answer about the job reduction very socially compatible. I got some information. There was activity by [ Wade ] and you and the German DC that the people will not be hired, but that they will be leased out to another employer, and that they can't stay there until they reach a certain age. This is really a role model, and this is really great. I think it was the first time after the war that this happened. I thought that this was excellent. I want to place this and I think you couldn't have handled it any better. Second topic, we heard about the pension. And do you plan to have shares for the employees? And if so, who will be the eligible persons. Thank you for your information, and have a nice day.

Thank you very much for the very focused questions. But now Mr. [indiscernible], please.

Dear Board of Management, dear co-shareholders, I came here. And I hope that I would get a beautiful pen again, like in previous years, but I didn't get it. And I was deeply disappointed the staff all have their pink Magenta pens and additionally, I didn't get any paper, which I know from other meetings. So perhaps you could take it into account for next time again. On remmunication, I would like to contradict Mr. [ Arput. ] There is a country where the salaries are not rising as quickly and this is Japan. I do not have the current figures, but normally, they have the 10x to 15x as much as the average salary, this would also be used in Germany because this what reduced with costs. Germany really has to now take a different view because these are very high costs for the company. And I think the shareholders could also be happy with that if in the next year, we have an increase in dividends, again, then all of us would be happy and satisfied, and we then don't criticize the high salaries of the Board members any longer.

Thank you. Mr. [indiscernible], we've got a pen for you, 2 even. Then you've got one for your wife. And now finally, Mr. Frederic [indiscernible]. He is on his way already.

Just one more question on the ESG targets in the STI. You said the back office didn't really understand the question. So let me spell it out again on Page 34 of the invitation, you describe the target values for the ESG targets, reduction of CO2 emissions and energy consumption for the 2023. It's 185 and 4,871. If I take a look at the report, then on Page 47, I find values for year 2022 without T-Mobile U.S. of 179 and 4,704. These are not reduction goals, but these are goals for the total consumption. In my understanding, the target values for 2023, thus were higher than the actually achieved values in 2022, and this is something I didn't understand, and this is why I asked why this happened.

Thank you very much for this question again. I hope that the back office can provide an answer. Thank you so much for the short and precise question. This leads us to the end of the speakers list and we continue with answering some of the questions. But let me point out that after the completion of the general debate, we will take a vote and that then the possibility to pass on the voting rights to proxy voters are ending, and you can no longer change any of the previous instructions. So I'm saying this right now in order to make sure that it's not a big surprise you when we start the voting closes. But first of all, answers to the questions raised by Mrs. [ Grinberg]. Mrs. [ Grinberg ] asked about her application. Why didn't you make any more positive feedback on my application? Well we treated your applications in line with the relevant requirements -- and the -- and we also published your proposal for election on our Home Page. And otherwise, we don't make any positive or negative statements on the proposed candidates. And then you said in the last annual report, I couldn't find any information on the remuneration. You will find this in the remuneration report. This has changed in recent years. Previously, it was done in the annual report, but now there is a special remuneration report. Ever since 2021, we have been publishing all the remuneration information in a separate remuneration report, and you find this on the Home Page and MX4 in the end -- in the invitation to the shareholders meeting. It's a very lengthy report, but this is due to the legal requirements. And your final question to me, [ Mrs. Grinberg]. The committee on security, how well the previous Chairman retired but now is still an adviser. Do we have the similar lead for [ Mr. Lena ]. [ Mr. Shroder ] is still the Chairman of the date Privacy Advisory Board. It's not a committee by the Supervisory Board. He already had this post before when he was still in the Supervisory Board, and he continues this. And now Professor [ Lena ], I do no longer see him. Otherwise, I would have loved to welcome you. So welcome to you, Mr. [ Lena ]. It's great to see you here. After he left the Supervisory Board, he never had any further tasks or mandates to Telekom any longer. And now over to you, Mr. [ Hedges.]

The question by Mrs. [ Grinberg ]. She was interested in novelties, checkbots, and she pointed out that at the local newspaper [ WAZ ] such systems have been in use for quite some time. That's well observed. But our check for fact Magenta has been in news since 2016 as a digital assistant. There is a difference between machine learning and AI. At the time we work with machine learning tools and since the fall 2023, Magenta voice is available at the mobile hot line, and this is based on artificial intelligence as presented this morning. Therefore, a dialogue and natural language is possible. It also understands local language and dialects, it learns it over the course of time and understanding language allows a better solution of problems. By means of the assistant, we can react even faster to complex requests by means of this automatic system. If the health insurers were advised with the accurate systems, I do not know that. I can't answer to that. But I believe all companies that use an under process, customer requests and queries will be for long use AI-based chatbots. It will never replace all the people in our service organizations, but they will accomplish standard tasks that are highly repetitive. Another question, [ Eurogate ], Mrs. [ Grinberg ] is asking whether there was a public tender in which many companies took part. Deutsche Telekom is due to is convincing concept won this tender, and yes, there was a public tender on this matter. For the moment, Mr. [ Grinberg ] asks regarding postpaid customers, whether she is a postpaid customer, I'd like to apologize for our difficult telecommunications language, yes, she is a postpaid customer. What is it? It is someone who has signed a permanent long-term mobile contract as opposed to a prepaid customer who first has to pay and then can use that balance for making calls, a postpaid customer usually has a permanent contract with us, a long-term contract with us. And they are highly valuable because they stay with us for a long time. So she is a postpaid customer. And I'm grateful for you being our customer, Mrs. [ Grinberg ].

Please continue. I have a question for Mr. [ Guner ] regarding investments in Germany and in the U.S. Now in 2024, '25 and '26. How much will you invest on the whole in Germany during those years? And how much will be invested into the mobile network.

Sorry -- if I am difficult to hear. Okay, we don't have the figures yet for '25 and '26. I would limit myself to '24. We are in the region of EUR 5.5 billion here. Then I can tell you by way of indication for the following years, we are expecting a slight increase in '26. This will also be part of our capital market communication. So for mobile, we have about EUR 1 billion of those EUR 5.5 billion that are going to be invested comparing this to the U.S. and [indiscernible] $8.6 billion. This is EUR 7.8 billion compared to EUR 8.5 billion for the current year. And in the medium term, the outlook will also be part of the Investor Day of the U.S. Americans. But the U.S. are 4x as big as we are. So you have to put this into context. Compare the figures. Second, the leasing of end devices in the U.S., it's a question [ Mrs. Guner ]. You may remember that this is an old business model that we inherited from Sprint, where end devices are covered in the balance sheet and then depreciated over time. Therefore, regarding the sales, there are no costs. This massively burdened us and this was the difference in the definition of EBITDA. This has been reduced by more than EUR 5 billion in the past years, and now we're expecting sales in that regard of just of EUR 100 million. Then we had yet another question by Mrs. [ Helen ] [indiscernible] with our project. There's a rumor there is 1,000 of [indiscernible] Telecom without project. We don't have a explanation for that rumor because we only have 12,000 civil servants and the majority of those civil servants are all employed according as required according to their positions. And of course, we're trying to find external opportunities of possible servants reduce that number, but where those 10,000 come from. I can't tell you because we just have 12,000 civil servants on the whole. So it might be a translation error. Then I have further questions by Mrs. [ Grinberg ]. Mrs. [ Grinberg ] asked questions regarding the business report, management report Page 34, related to transport and value generation, what's meant by that? Regarding transport business, we're talking about public transport here in the management report. We have digitization and focus here, which we're supporting in public transport by providing digital solutions of Telekom infrastructure and the operations and for the comfort of passengers and also providing technical support here. On Page 42, what's the context with catastrophes, emergencies and telephone for free. Weren't any fees charged there? That's the very topic I raised in my speech. After catastrophes such as the earthquake in Turkey, in Syria, in Morocco. Deutsche Telekom immediately stopped requiring and charging fees for text messages or phone calls, and we provided and offered connections for free to the people living there. This is our business model. Very quickly, we open up the lines so that people in crisis areas can enter the contact with each other. This also applies to our customers, by the way. And we, therefore, thus want to show that we are solidary. We want to be pragmatic, helping people and we also had similar activities when there was the flood in the area in all Germany in Western Germany.

Thank you. Mrs. [ Grinberg ] you also asked regarding campus networks for the Federal army in 2020. Received the order for 5G network on the campus of the Federal Army in Hamburg, and we implemented this. The tender was awarded in the form of a public tender by the service provider of Deutsche [indiscernible] which is responsible for communications at the [indiscernible]. Therefore we cannot speak to the communication listening in Singapore, and I wouldn't speak to that against the background of modernizing the Federal army. We, as Deutsche Telekom, of course, are being awarded many public tenders and offers and trying to support public infrastructure. You're also talking about cell mass -- cell towers in areas of natural conservation. On our home page, you can find the sites that are not approved that we requested and that are not approved. This is how we are trying to be transparent where we're trying to say we want to build and we don't have the economic restrictions to build, we just lack the approvals for certain sites because the customer often doesn't understand when there is a white spot. But objectively, we don't have the option because those sites are being approved and this often happens in areas of natural conservation. Those are challenges. Protection regulations are quite tight, and we don't have the normal approval process here. And usually, those approval processes take some 3, 4 years, and there are no replacement side. We are in constant dialogue with the public authorities and responsible persons to find solutions, but this is certainly a very, very tough matter. And then you asked about those telephone booth. All remaining 12,000 telephone booths in the public area were taken out of operation. They are gradually being dismantled and recycled according to plans. This dismounting will take until the beginning of 2026 and then we complete it. For dismounting those public telephones provisions were made in the past in order to cover those costs and thus, those costs do not burn our operative results. Further questions were received from Mrs. [ Helen ]. Deutsche Telekom pursues the debate about the effect of electromagnetic fields very carefully and have done so for many years. And also in -- with regard to 5G, we are relying on the expertise of national and international expert, be it the commission for protection against radiation, the international one, other German. And they confirmed in thousands of analyses again and again that the safety standards sufficiently protect both humans and the environment. So we do perceive your worry, you're concerned, but there's no evidence or proof whatsoever that mobile networks are unhealthy or magnetic fields only occur when there is an electric current, but we use glass, optical fiber, we don't have any electromagnetic radiation in this case, therefore, the risk can totally be excluded in this case. And therefore, this is nothing that being discussed in the public whether optical fiber is damaging to health. Another question from Mr. [ Iceman ] regarding artificial intelligence and the risk that it could gain power over us humans. Robotics should not control humans, but it should be the other way around. We absolutely see it in the same way. We should always keep control over AI and they don't share the worry that creativity or the possibility to take your own decisions or to formulate goals. This is something that is still far removed for artificial intelligence and we want to keep things transparent. We use those machines to facilitate our routine tasks our, day-to-day work, and we're all trying to make sure that all use of AI is transparent for the customer, perhaps via a website where we are documenting those applications so that you know what's happening. And regarding your data, you are protected by the European GDPR and corresponding national laws and regulations. Another question from Mr. [ Iceman], if the network is should again be overloaded or overstressed due to the third provider should we -- is there a risk that we have to give up our products at reduced prices? And the answer is yes, that great worry that the concern that we keep having that mobile, the infrastructure that we've built up, that it is being made available to third parties at reduced prices. This immediately leads to the fact that whatever price you call that, that price will always be too high. So you're discussing with someone because you're legally required to do so. You are discussing with the Federal Network Agency about what price is acceptable and adequate. Is it the purchase price, the procurement price as the variable costs that you have? We will have to have a basic discussion on that. We have competition regarding infrastructure, and that competition should not be regulated once again and then furthermore include regulation of the price because this would entail the risk it might do so. But the danger is there, and we have to keep an eye on that, Mr. [ Iceman]. So what we used to have in the past in fixed line is looming on the Verizon and mobile. And we need to make sure that the market will not be overregulated. Then you asked about passing on data when you're using cookies, passing on those data into the cloud outside of Europe, especially to the U.S. Okay. The times of cookies are almost over. As you know, the cookie -- cookie times are almost passed. When using cookies, we always offer the possibility of accepting them or not accepting them. You can nevertheless still use the Magenta cloud completely entirely. So use of a Magenta cloud is not tied to you accepting the cookies. In the case of many apps, however, you accept the cookies and you accept that your data are being used and any of the apps free of charge, earn their money with the data that you are making available via cookies. So often, this is highly transparent and we've been fighting this for a long time. Of course, we're trying to have data transferred only if the customer has agreed to this. And we will always adhere to the data privacy regulations and the data of privacy framework and similar regulations. Now let me pass on to further questions. You asked about the showcase and the -- how you keep up the computer of voices when you reboot the computer and when you use a chatbot doing so by using the Magenta app on your cell phone. So if your Internet [indiscernible] at home, your mobile network still be working. Otherwise, of course, you would have a problem, then you would have to wait for the new start function and the Internet would have to be relaunched. I just assumed that my cell phone and my Magenta can be used parallel, while the local network, Internet is not working. You we're asking whether the -- speaking about the Western world is in line with talking about a company which is open. Is this a contradiction? I don't think so. We are open and open company open to the world, and we've often been approached of cooperating with Asian partners. Nevertheless, our profile was set in such a way that we don't have a risk profile with regard to Africa, to South America. No active business in India or China. Our infrastructure, our networks are exclusively located in the Western world. And if you're looking at creditworthiness, other the legal framework conditions the Western world is still considered to be a better, safer market than the markets I just mentioned. Therefore, we are at an advantage. This is part of our DNA that with our huge infrastructure equipment, we are present only in Europe and the U.S. And we're using that advantage also with regard to our investors because they're saying, it's -- you're better off to invest with us because you have more transparency than if you had such markets as Africa and so on. Then you raised the question regarding our commitment to e-mobility and the 140,000 kilometers, we did with the AI vehicle, Mr. [ Hinged ] asked that question. Okay. First of all, within a transformation of our entire fleet, our target is gradually and continually to convert all our vehicles to climate-friendly drives between 2017 to '23, we've been able to reduce our CO2 emissions of our vehicles in January by 35,000 tonnes. '23 at Telekom Deutschland, we issued the internal requirement only to purchase and order vehicles which are E-vehicle. So we continue driving using the vehicles we have, but all new vehicles purchased and procured. We need to have electric drives. For our systems business, we already implemented this in 2023. On that basis, the business vehicles in Germany have almost at 100% being switched over to e-vehicles. Furthermore, the retaining period for business vehicles has been raised to 3 years, which makes for better utilization and greater sustainability. The full electrification of our service vehicles which includes vehicles for field service, for technicians, requires ample preparation 2023, the necessary requirements or conditions have improved, especially in the [indiscernible] segment, the vehicles offer. We need to have vehicles which can carry replacement parts and tools so that situation has improved. However, the market still does not provide for efficient small transport vehicles with the necessary reach and mileage of -- so if we are going to switch over to e-mobility there, we are relying on the necessary mileage. Regarding the measurement vehicles or test vehicles. I also asked that question when I use it. I remember that the answer at the time was they are too heavy to build an electric drive was extremely inefficient because the vehicle has to be on the road permanently and it required diesel engines. But in the long term, there will certainly be a solution to this problem. Mr. [ Kushner ] then asked about network coverage in relation to the number of households and the number of people who live in Germany. And you asked why we are measuring coverage of households rather than coverage based on area. Let me be quite clear here and tell you we are measuring both. In my speech today, though, I only talked about household coverage. But in Germany, we have a coverage of 96% of the population with 5G. And right now, we have an 84% coverage of the area in Germany with 5G. So that's a difference. But when you look at 2G, so emergency coverage, and we are talking about a 99% coverage of the entire area in Germany with mobile communications. So you may be saying we are still short 1% or 2% that also need to be covered. These are the conservation areas and forests. And here, our goal is to achieve 100% as well. And in future, this may actually become possible using satellites -- we are working on it. But right now, we cannot guarantee a 100% coverage of the entire area in Germany. But we've entered into partnerships with O2 and Vodafone, not 1-in-1 because, once again, 1-in-1 we're not willing to take part in the antenna rollout but we are working to also establish antennas in these areas together with the 2 companies that I just mentioned. Then you asked about, yes, the different providers that can be used to make emergency calls, I already talked about that. But I got couple of additional answers here. So Mr. [ Beckendorf ] you had a follow-up question on our climate goals. You asked about how things developed here. Thanks for your precise observation. The reason for the slightly higher values in our ambition is that we are continuously expanding our network, which means that we are continuously setting up new antennas making the network dense, which means that we are using up more energy. That's the trade-off. On the one hand, we want to have nationwide coverage of optical fiber and 5G, but that means higher electricity consumption at a higher cost. But data volumes are also rising. Customers are using up more data volumes. And therefore, it is extremely challenging to say that at the same time, we want to keep energy prices at the same level. I think what we need is a KPI that is based on volumes, maybe gigabytes or something like that. But so far, such a KPI has not yet been defined. But the reason is the continued network rollout also and particularly so in the U.S. Mr. [indiscernible] then asked about mental health issues among Deutsche Telekom employees. You asked about diagnosis and how things have developed and how we look at that. We offer a lot of easy-to-use offers to support employees who are affected by mental health issues, psychosocial consultant, by experts we are offering workshops to raise awareness on resilience on healthy self-management. We are offering our employees to use gyms in order to remain in shape or physically to stay in shape physically. And yes, this is something that we definitely need to take seriously. And we do. But this is not a problem that would be particularly striking at Telekom, but we are taking it seriously. Then you asked about a lack of skilled labor. Well, we already commented on that. Incidentally, I think that AI, artificial intelligence, a subject that is keeping us busy the whole day here may also prove to be helpful here, may help us to compensate for the lack of skilled labor in this country to some extent. But after all, we have a global resource management system in place. Telekom has thousands of employees across the globe, providing services. For instance, IT-related services, we have software developers, a software development center in Spain, in Greece, we have software developers in Eastern Europe as well. And we have a big team in India as well who are helping us to provide IT services just because we don't have enough skilled labor for that in Germany. Then you asked about our business in Russia. As you know, we used to have 2,000 software developers in Russia. You asked what has become of them? Well, after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, we decided immediately to shut down our site in Petersburg, and we then offered our software developers to work at various locations in Europe, which also means that these people then have to leave Russia, at least those who wanted to work for us in Europe. We were pleased to see that over 1,000 employees then decided to leave Russia in order to continue working for us in Europe. And these people are working for us right now. The biggest sites they chose can be found in Greece and [indiscernible], where there has always been a large Russian community. And Spain because it's so nice and warm there. Why is Telekom still using Huawei equipment even though policymakers are trying to oppose the influence of China? Well, I think we've discussed this at great length today. When it comes to security relevant components, we are not using Chinese products. And we always try to remain independent of vendors regardless of where they come from, and this also holds true for new technologies that are currently being developed. Let me continue with the question from Mr. [ Huta ]. How do we want to bring down net debt? I already said before that we very much focus on the level of net debt, and we want to bring it down by increasing EBITDA. And when you look at the guidance, and you look at what we achieved last year against our guidance, we said EUR 2.3 billion EBITDA, growth of 6%. Is that way above or below the level of previous years? Well, let me refer to the last press conference on our financial statements. We had 8% EBITDA growth in 2020. Then 8% to 7% in the years after that, up to 2023. So that was an ongoing trend. And therefore, we are confident of going back to our -- the defined range for net debt. The guidance was 18.9. I thought you were saying 18.9, but the guidance actually said 19. Then the competitive situation in the U.S. market. Well, there's fierce competition in the U.S., but that didn't just come up last year. Both Verizon and AT&T are very active in the market, promoting their services. Cable operators are very aggressively attacking the mobile market and offering very low prices. But we have the best network, and we offer the best value for money in the market, which was also reflected in the numbers for '23. In addition, T-Mobile U.S. has a lot of -- has various special levers that they can use. In rural areas and in small communities, where we've been underrepresented -- where we used to be underrepresented, we now have 5% more customers. Then there's the business segment that is growing much faster than the market. And thirdly, our high-speed Internet where we gained 2 million new customers last year. And therefore, we are quite confident of seeing another successful year in the U.S. in '24. Then there was a question from Mr. [ Klein ]. You asked about whether we are offering shares to our employees. Yes, we have a program in place, Shares for You, which makes it possible for employees to invest up to EUR 1,000 in shares. If they get 4 shares, then they get 1 share on top for free. We rolled it out. 36,000 employees chose to take part in this program, and the plan is to also roll out this program internationally, to our subsidiaries. Then there was a question from Mr. [indiscernible]. I don't know if he's still here. It was about out-of-court settlements in connection with the third IPO. 91% of all plaintiffs accepted an out-of-court settlement, which means that we basically covered EUR 70 million out of the EUR 78 million that were originally claimed and 99.5% of those addressed accepted our offer. Why not 100%? Well, because we weren't able to find some of them. Apparently, some people had already passed away. And in other cases, we didn't have any information about their whereabouts. But we are convinced that this is a very good offer. Otherwise, 99.5% of all the addressees haven't accepted it. But yes, some of the cases are still pending. That's it from my side.

Right. We have now dealt with all the comments. Mr. [indiscernible] said that he now wants to table a motion requesting that the Chairman of the meeting be removed from office. So you have 3 minutes to present your motion here, and I would ask that you stick with that speaking time. You might want to use a mic. Otherwise, we are not able to hear what you have to say. All questions have been answered. So with the exception of Mr. [indiscernible], we can assume that all questions have been answered. I'm asking, is this the case? I'm asking everyone here with the exception of Mr. [indiscernible]. If not, then please go to the mic.

Last question. You've talked about towers. Is it possible to look at the inside of a tower, say, in Bremen, just for us to have the option of seeing what they look like from the inside? So would it be possible for me to contact you and say, look, I would like to check out what these TV towers look like, I'm a telecom shareholder, or is that not possible? Because I think actually people should have a right to see what those TV towers look like on the inside.

Okay, let me confirm that unofficially. But first of all, we only own a minority of these TV towers, but Mr. Langheim is here, and he hasn't done anything today so far. So he will certainly be glad to go and see and inspect one of these TV towers. So why don't you send an e-mail to Mr. Langheim. I will give you his e-mail address in a moment. And then he will make sure that you can inspect such a TV tower from -- yes, I can basically promise that.

Okay. And I'll be done in a moment. But one last -- can you confirm one last thing. It's about Radio Bremen. So I'm taking part in all the streams. I'm all Magenta and I'm attending the TV shows. Can I go to Radio Bremen and tell them that they can switch off your app?

Well, there are millions of apps in this world. And we are using AI to develop a terminal device that will make apps redundant. Once the customer uses that and uses a voice to call up a certain function, then these apps will no longer be needed. No need to even switch them off. Therefore, personally, I don't care what you are telling that lady, [indiscernible], at Radio Bremen. But we are trying to make things as easy as possible.

Now you've answered all my questions. Thank you. And one last comment on the tablet. Somebody broke my tablet here. You might want to give me a new one. And I went to One and One, and they also broke some of my equipment. I don't know. Maybe it works again, but I don't know. It was a Samsung tablet. So thank you.

Okay. So let me ask once again with the exception of Mr. [indiscernible], whether there are any questions which have not yet been answered?

Thank you for giving me the floor once again. Now I'm not trying to sell you a radio show or something like that. I'm just glad to be here. And I don't want a tablet either. I just have a simple question regarding the litigation. Dr. Illek, you tried to explain it in detail. But question is about how do you want to handle the 0.5% of people who did not accept an out-of-court settlement? And that's also about interest payments, right? And it might be a good idea to reach out to those remaining 5% [ 0.5% ]. I think most of them have commissioned lawyers, so maybe it should be easier than you would think. And yes, that would still be important to me. That's it. Thank you for this meeting.

Do you want me to answer the question immediately? Okay. Well, with an approval rate of 99.5%, we don't see a need to reach even more. But how about interest rates? How do you intend to cover them? Our provisions also cover that.

Okay. So you would be able to cover that using the provisions that you've made?

Of course, we will use the provisions as we need them. If we don't need them, we will resolve them.

Okay. Mr. [indiscernible], would you now like to present your motion here?

Thank you for being kind enough to give me another 4 minutes. The right to speak is one of the main rights of any shareholders, and it is also embedded in Stock Corporation Law. As a head of this meeting, you have oppressed that. And this has been criticized by a lot of shareholders, not just by me. Others criticized it even more than I did. And this will have a major influence on the election results and distort them. If you give a shareholder the right to speak, but then limit it, then this will have a bearing on the results. And it looks as if you are doing this with intent in order to have an influence on the results. And therefore, I would like to table the motion here for the removal of the chair from office, and I would like to ask the shareholders to support me in that motion. Then something else. There is one location where telecom installed fiber network, but some errors occurred and the building site was shut off. But the builders continue to work, and the authorities then told them to stop. I am, myself, heading an association -- a housing association and I told you, Mrs. Paula from Deutsche Telekom on WhatsApp about this incident. I sent her various newspaper articles on WhatsApp. In fact, I brought some of these articles here about this poor work done by Telekom, this botched up job from Telekom. And I think it is very detrimental to Telekom's reputation. When you open up the street and then cut the electricity and make it impossible for people to use their telephones because some of the telephone lines were cut as well. And then the pavement was damaged, all the building works weren't done in line with the regulations. The builders didn't have a toilet or anything that they were able to use. And I sent various reports to Mrs. Paula from Telekom, asking her to forward them to you. I don't know if she did, but we might want to discuss it. At any rate, what I'm saying is that such things are very detrimental to Telekom's reputation and the company [indiscernible] is associated with Telekom in some sort of way. There may be a connection through an Australian company. And it would be nice if you could look into that. I know that sometimes you are going to building sites yourself to inspect them. Well, in this case, I was affected myself. On one Sunday morning, there was no electricity. It wasn't possible to make any phone calls. Then it was raining and they stopped working again. And there was no electricity, like I said.

Mr. [indiscernible], understood, and we will look into it. We have a lot of building sites that we are working on. We have a lot of service providers who support us in that. Whenever errors occur, we apologize for them, and we will look into it. This sounds like -- sounds a bit out of the ordinary that electricity -- that there was a blackout, but we will look into it and we will inspect this building site. But I think it is an exception, certainly is an exception. And yes, our claim, of course, our goal is to make sure that residents and fiber-to-the-home customers are satisfied.

Mr. Hottges, I don't want you to apologize for this, but I would like to ask you to use proper construction companies. They come from a former Yugoslavian state. Mr. [indiscernible], I gave you the opportunity to talk about your motion. Mr. Hottges gave you an answer. They will look into it. And now, I'd like to ask you to talk about your motion.

I already presented my motion.

So then you can take your seat again. Okay. And I will now comment on your motion, and there were so many people who criticized the speaking time and you cut many people short. Mr. [indiscernible], I now would like to ask you to take your seat again. So Mr. [indiscernible] submitted the motion to remove me as Chairman of the meeting. I now wanted to say a lot regarding the shareholders democracy. And the benchmark for behaviors is the parliament that used to be just a head in the building, and there was also a proper order, and this was based on good reasons and sometimes very important topics are handled in 3 or 4 minutes. Otherwise, things won't work. And I think what is true for the federal parliament can also be true for our shareholders' democracy. And so I am against the motion submitted by Mr. [indiscernible]. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. [indiscernible] for supporting me. And now, let's say, again, Mr. [indiscernible] submitted the motion to remove me from my office as chairing the meeting. Well, removing from this position is only possible for a very important reason. Mr. [indiscernible], I could not see any material reason in your statements that would make it possible to remove me as Chairman of this meeting and the points mentioned by you are no reasons that doubt my abilities to lead this meeting. So I cannot have a vote on your motion. We checked this already legally and the restriction of the speaking times did not result into a discrimination against any of the shareholders. Okay. Nobody spoke up, so we assume that we answered all your questions. Let me say that this is to all the questions have been answered. If you come to this, Mr. Muller, we will come to the other countermotions, but there is no question in the general debate any longer. So I'll close the general debate. I would like to thank all the speakers for the questions and the Board of Management for answering the questions. And we will soon move to the vote. And now we have some music again. So we will come shortly to the vote. In accordance with Section 17, Paragraph 2 of the Articles of Association, it is my responsibility as Chairman of the meeting to determine the type and order of voting. Votes will be cast using tablets as mobile recording devices and electronic collection boxes. Votes will be allocated to the shares by scanning the QR code on your AGM card. The votes recorded using the tablets are transferred to a computerized system for counting. The votes, the transfer and the subsequent count are monitored by a notary. The addition method is used to determine the result of the vote. The votes in favor and against are counted separately and added together to determine the number of votes cast. Abstentions are not counted. In order to ensure notarial supervision, you can only cast your votes here in the main room that is in this room New York, including the gallery accessible from the outside. If you would like to take part in the voting, please come to the main room now and have your AGM card ready. For the sake of order, I would like to point out that votes cast by the company's proxies and votes cast by intermediaries, proxy advisers and shareholders associations who make use of the [indiscernible] voting card service differ from the above. They are carried out by means of a release of the previously electronically deposited votes on the part of the proxies present or the representative present of the respective intermediary proxy adviser or the respective shareholders association. After this approval, the votes in questions are also entered into the computerized system for counting the votes. Shareholders also have made use of the postal voting option. These votes are already stored electronically and are taken into account by the computerized system when the votes are counted. I will now tell you the current presence. So here, we have the current figures. The presence of the number of shares for which the [indiscernible] has changed. At present, we have 3,609,393,345 votes present and this is [indiscernible] 9,420,444,920 [indiscernible] 72.8% of all the ordinary shares of the stock [indiscernible] 1,765,364,000 [indiscernible] EUR 5.76. Apart from that, we had postal votes for 21,159,038 shares and they will be taken into account when deliveries also counted. This means 3,620,452,338 votes are here or represented by postal votes and this is 72.18% of the [indiscernible]. Regarding the countermotions and the proposals for elections submitted by some shareholders, I would like to point out that I first ask you for a vote on the proposals made by the Board. If these are confirmed, then there will be no longer any necessity to vote on the countermotions. Let's now move on to the first items on the agenda. On Item 2, we will see vote on the updated proposals that are already presented in the beginning of this meeting. The deviation from the motion in the invitation, a result from the change in the number of shares entitled to dividends compared to the number on which the invitation was based. As already announced, the dividend to be distributed in accordance with the proposed resolution remains unchanged at EUR 0.77 per dividend bearing share. The resolutions proposed by the management on agenda Items 3 to 9 will be put to the vote with the wording as set out in the invitation to today's shareholders' meeting published in the Federal Gazette on the 29th of February. With regard to agenda Items 3 and 4, I would like to draw your attention to the voting provision pursuant to Section 136 of the German Stock Corporation Act. For the sake of order, I would like to point out with regard to the agenda Item 5, that anyone who wishes to reject only 1 or 2 of the Deloitte appointments proposed under sub-items A to C must vote against the entire proposed resolution under agenda Item 5. If this draft resolution is rejected by a majority, I will conduct a separate vote on the sub-items A, B and C. With regard to agenda Item 6, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that you can decide on the election of each candidate separately in this resolution. The resolutions on agenda Items 2 to 9 require a simple majority of the valid votes [indiscernible]. The resolution on agenda Item 7 requires a majority of at least 3/4 of the share capital represented when the resolution is passed. The resolution on agenda Item 8 also requires simple majority of the share capital represented when the resolution is passed. If you wish to vote in favor or against one of or more of the resolutions proposed by the administration on agenda Items 2 to 9, you must now present yourself in the main room, that is here in the room New York including the gallery. The votes are summarized. This means that votes are cast separately for each of the items put to the vote, but in a collective process using the tablets. You decide independently of each other to what extent you participate in the voting processes by casting your vote and whether you vote yes or no or abstain. Once the vote has been opened, give a clear show of hands to the employees who are authorized to receive your votes. An employee will then come to you, first present your AGM card so that the QR code on it can be scanned. You then inform the employee for each of the resolution proposals of the administration for agenda Items 2 through 9, whether you wish to support the respective resolution proposal of the Board, that is vote yes or against the respective proposal, i.e., vote no. If you wish to abstain from voting on individual agenda items, please also let us now. Then check the voting request displayed on the tablet, confirm to the employee that your voting request is displayed correctly. After this confirmation, the employee will finally cast the vote. If you wish to abstain from voting on all items on the agenda relating to the resolutions, you do not need to inform our employees of your wish to vote. Our staff will be happy to answer any questions you may have about the procedure. I now would like to ask the staff to take the votes here in the room. The vote is now open. Dear shareholders, I assume that everybody now had the opportunity to cast their vote on the agenda Items 2 to 9 that they were able to cast their votes. If you still need to cast your vote, then please raise your hands very clearly if this is the case. Mr. [indiscernible] would like to cast his votes. Okay. Let me ask again. Do you still need to cast your votes, please give a clear signal with your hands if you still want to cast your votes. This is not the case, so I will announce that all votes on agenda Items 2 to 9 have been cast, and I hereby close the vote. I will announce the results of the vote as soon as I have the results. The additional -- wish on the agenda to have an additional item of miscellaneous is not possible for legal reasons. There will be a break now. And once I've got the results of the vote, we will continue and I will inform you accordingly. But first, we'll have a short break. [Break]

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now continue. I have the results of the vote. Annual General Meeting adopted all the resolutions proposed by the management on agenda Items 2 to 9 with required majorities. The detailed voting results will be shortly displayed on the screen for each resolution separately. All interested shareholders can also obtain results at the registration desk or view them afterwards on the company's website. If you agree, I will, therefore, limit my comments on the resolutions to the fact that the required majority for each resolution proposed by the management was achieved. So results of the votes during the shareholders' meeting of Deutsche Telekom AG is [indiscernible]. I will now announce the results and I will acknowledge the results. The shareholders meeting have voted with presence of [indiscernible] 3,609,384,931 different votes taking into account 21,164,890 postal votes, so there was a total of the shares and the following votes were cast. On Item #2, there were 99.92% of the votes cast in favor of the appropriation of the profit and the payout of dividend of EUR 0.77 per dividend. This was based on the adjusted resolution -- motion on resolution proposed by the Board of Management, which I announced to you at the beginning of the meeting directly after the start of the meeting. On Item 3 of the agenda, the shareholders' meeting accepted the proposal of the management with 99.46% of the votes and gave approval of the actions of the members of the Board of Management. On Item 4 of the agenda, the shareholders' meeting gave approval at 93.51% of the votes cast and thus gave the simple majority and gave approval of the actions of the members of Supervisory Board for a period under review. Thank you for your trust. On item 5 on the agenda, there was approval by 98.99% of votes cast and [indiscernible] Munich has been elected as an auditor and group auditor for the financial year 2024, as an auditor for review of the condensed financial statements and the interim group management report for the financial year 2024 and as an auditor for any review of additional interim financial reports for the financial year 2024 and the first quarter of the financial year 2025. On Item 6, the shareholders' meeting has approved the election of [indiscernible] with 99.26% of the votes cast, reaching the simple majority of votes. On the election of Karl-Heinz Streibich, he achieved 93.93% of our your votes cast, also achieving the necessary simple majority of votes, so he was elected as a member of the Supervisory Board. Congratulations to the 2 of them. Thank you. On Item 7 of the agenda, the shareholders' meeting with 94.11% of the votes cast, so the necessary qualified majority has granted the resolution on the granting of an authorization to issue bonds with warrants, convertible bonds, profit participation rights and/or participating bonds or combinations of these instruments with the option of excluding subscription rights and the consolidation of the contingent capital 2018 and the creation of new contingent capital 2024 based on these statutes. And the full content of the resolution can be read under the agend Item 7 in the indication. On Item 8, the shareholders' meeting approved the resolution by 99.21% of the votes. So that was the necessary number of votes and this was the resolution on the amendment of Section 13 of the Articles of Incorporation and the remuneration of the Supervisory Board as described in the invitation. On Item 9 of the agenda, the shareholders' meeting approved the resolution with 91.04% of the votes. So the remuneration report was approved. This means that the resolution proposals by management were all accepted with necessary majority, so it will no longer be necessary to vote on the countermotions or the other proposals for election. Thank you very much for your approval and the trust shown. This leads us to the end of our agenda. I would like to thank you on behalf of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board for your participation in this year's shareholders' meeting. And I also would like to thank you for your positive comments on the face-to-face meeting which will probably continue. I would like to now thank all the employees who contributed to the meeting, to the preparation and the organization of this meeting. Thank you. And finally, I would like to point out that the next Annual General Meeting of Deutsche Telekom AG is expected to take place on the 9th of April 2025 in Bonn and we would be happy to welcome all the shareholders again. I wish you all a safe journey home. See you soon. This concludes today's shareholders' meeting. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]