DEXUS (DXS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

February 13, 2023

Australian Securities Exchange AU Real Estate Office REITs earnings 46 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Operator

operator
#1

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Dexus 2023 Half Year Results Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Darren Steinberg, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#2

Good morning, everyone. And thanks for joining us today for our 2023 half year results. As an owner manager and developer of property across the country, I'd like to start today's presentation by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the lands on which we operate, and pay our respects to their elders, past, present and future. Today, you'll hear from Keir on the financials, Deb on our funds business, Kevin on office, Stewart on industrial and Ross on investments and our development pipeline. We'll then take any questions you might have. Despite subdued market conditions, it's been an active 6 months. We've announced nearly $800 million of divestments since the FY '22 result, recycling capital into higher returning opportunities and maintaining a strong balance sheet with low gearing, substantial headroom and 85% of debt hedged. We continue to grow our health care fund and our opportunistic fund, raising equity in both funds. We maintained high occupancy levels across both the office and industrial portfolios with strong leasing activity. We've also progressed city-shaping developments, with Atlassian, Central and Waterfront Brisbane commencing construction. And finally, building on our ESG track record, Dexus was again recognized as a global leader in the S&P Global Sustainability Yearbook. Our vision is to be recognized as the leading real asset investment manager in Australia. We aim to achieve this through providing a superior risk-adjusted returns for investors through investing balance sheet capital and managing investments on behalf of our third-party capital investors. Our balance sheet provides resilient cash earnings from a portfolio of high-quality investments, and our funds business adds capital-efficient, higher-growth exposure while maintaining the overall risk profile of the business. Going forward, we don't anticipate a material change to the size of the balance sheet. Overall, AUM will increase as the funds business grows. Our medium-term target is to expand the proportion of income generated from active earnings to circa 20%, up from 11% in FY '22. Balance sheet capital will increasingly be invested alongside third-party partners. As a result, the balance sheet will become more diversified over time due to the expanded set of investment opportunities available across the funds management platform. Capital will also be selectively utilized to warehouse high conviction opportunities. We updated the market in January on the acquisition of the AMP Capital platform. As a result of completion being delayed, we have renegotiated terms with AMP, and the maximum total consideration payable by Dexus has been reduced to $225 million, which equates to an attractive 1.2% of FUM. An alternative transaction structure is being agreed to provide timing certainty with the transaction to now occur in March. This transaction has the potential to add a further $18 billion to the group portfolio and will underpin our next phase of growth, bringing with it an expanded product offering, new capabilities in infrastructure and an enhanced retail platform, providing a complete offering for third-party investors. We continue to be globally recognized for our leadership across ESG, with DJSI, CPD (sic) [ CDP ] and GRESB reaffirming our status over the half. Our office portfolios' NABERS ratings remained strong as a result of our ongoing investment in energy efficiency. We achieved our first health and safety rating across 45 office properties, giving our customers confidence that their well-being is a focus. And we raised awareness of modern slavery through a comprehensive training program with our people and suppliers. I'll now pass you on to Keir to cover the financials.

Keir Barnes

executive
#3

Thanks, Darren, and good morning, everyone. Turning to the composition of the result. Our property portfolio delivered AFFO of $300.5 million. Office like-for-like income growth was 3.2%, and industrial like-for-like income growth was 2.4%. Rent collections remained strong at 98.9%. Management operations and trading profits grew significantly, which I'll discuss in more detail shortly. The external independent valuations resulted in a total of $242 million or 1.4% decrease on prior book values for the 6 months to 31 December, with positive rent growth partially offsetting the impact of cap rates expanding by 16 basis points on average across the portfolio. Turning to the results in detail. Office property FFO reduced due to divestments and nonrecurring income on development-impacted properties in the prior half, partially offset by contracted rent increases. Industrial property FFO increased due to a full period contribution from Jandakot, recently completed developments and leasing success. FFO from management operations increased significantly driven predominantly by development-related milestone fees. Net finance costs were up, mainly as a result of higher floating rates, partially offset by a lower average debt balance. Net other expenses increased primarily due to tax expense on the management business. Trading profits of $48.7 million post-tax was secured from the sale of 2 assets, with a further $5 million pretax to be realized across FY '23 and FY '24. Overall, funds from operations per security was down 1.9% on the prior period. AFFO CapEx reduced due to the timing of project commencements, with AFFO per security growing by 2.8%. Distributions per security were $0.28, in line with the prior corresponding period, while NTA reduced to $12.01, primarily driven by property devaluations. Moving to our capital management. Since FY '22, we have secured over $2 billion of new and refinanced facilities and further diversified our sources of debt. We now have substantial headroom with $3 billion of cash and undrawn debt facilities. At 25.6%, our gearing remains below the 30% to 40% target range. Combined with our ongoing approach to strategic asset recycling, this provides capacity to fund growth initiatives in funds management and development. Our percentage of hedged debt averaged 85% in the first half this year, up from 65% in FY '22. The weighted average maturity of our hedge book is 4.8 years, providing material protection against interest rate movements over the medium term, and we remain committed to maintaining prudent hedging positions through economic cycles. Thank you, and I'll now hand over to Deb.

Deborah Coakley

executive
#4

Thanks, Keir, and good morning, everyone. We continue to deliver strong performance for our funds. Our responsibility for performance extends beyond the financial with Dexus' global leadership and sustainability aligned to our capital partners' ambitions, with DHPF being recognized as a global sector leader by GRESB in 2022, as an example. Current market conditions have led to a pivot in some investors' strategies with the crystallization of gains in real estate through reducing allocations. In response, we have been able to provide liquidity to those investors whose strategies have required it, with approximately $5 billion of liquidity facilitated over the past 2 years while growing funds under management by $10 billion over the same time period. This half, we raised $550 million in new equity across the platform, predominantly in support of DREP1 and DHPF as well as executing on developments, divestments and acquisitions in line with individual fund strategies. Having the investor at the center of our business has always been a core focus and understanding their business has never been more important. To this end, we look forward to opening our new office in Singapore and developing our on-the-ground presence in the region, which will enable us to be closer to our Asian-based investors and attract new equity to our platform. We have a demonstrated ability to quickly achieve scale in funds. Our opportunity fund was launched in 2021, the first in a series of closed-ended funds that leverages our integrated platform's capability and trading track record. DREP1 has now closed with $475 million in equity since inception, taking the fund's investment capacity to circa $1 billion. We saw an opportunity to enter into the growing health care sector that is underpinned by long-term demand drivers, and we believe the timing was right. In DHPF, we have built a $1.8 billion high-quality health care portfolio, which is delivering attractive returns to investors, 13.4% per annum since inception. Of the equity raised by DHPF during the half, over 80% came from existing investors, demonstrating confidence in the fund's strategy. Looking more broadly at investor sentiment. Australia remains an attractive destination, although not immune to global investment decision-making factors which are considerations for our investors. Investor support for our pooled funds, DHPF, DWPF and DREP, remains strong and ongoing new business conversations with capital partners are continuing across all sectors. Thank you, and I'll now pass you to Kevin.

Kevin George

executive
#5

Thanks, Deb, and good morning, everyone. Office portfolio occupancy continues to outperform the market, remaining consistently above 95%, demonstrating the resilience of our high-quality assets despite some market uncertainty. Stabilized leasing volumes were up compared to the second half of FY '22, with around 1/3 of vacant space leased despite the challenging operating environment. The average weighted lease expiry was steady at 4.6 years. As Keir mentioned, like-for-like income growth was 3.2% for the period, above the 10-year average of 2.7%. Incentives have increased to 31.8%, largely as a result of leasing in Brisbane. And incentives are expected to remain elevated in the near term, although our premium assets should perform better, particularly in Sydney where the portfolio vacancy rate is around 1%. Moving on to our expiry profile. The space we currently have available is concentrated in both Sydney and Melbourne where we have made progress and are in advanced negotiations with a number of tenants. Expiry levels are below our target threshold maximum of 13% per annum over each of the coming 4 years. Our diversified and high-caliber customer base presents limited concentration risk, with our top customer, Woodside, representing 3.2% of income; and our top 10 customers combined representing 16.3%. I'll now share our market observations from the first half. There is continued evidence of a flight to quality, demonstrating the value of well-located, good-quality workplaces. For example, Sydney Premium had positive 30,000 square meters net absorption, whilst lower-grade buildings recorded negative absorption. We also observed a number of organizations moving into the Sydney CBD from suburban locations and taking circa 20,000 square meters in aggregate. Incentives are, however, likely to remain elevated over the 12 months as the existing supply pipeline completes. Larger inquiries picked up across the market, but deals in general are taking longer to convert as customers remain cautious about the potential impacts of escalating interest rates. Companies are becoming increasingly concerned with negative impacts to organizational productivity and corporate culture because of its significantly dispersed workforce. As labor market pressures subside over the next 6 to 12 months, we expect many more organizations to move from encouraging staff back to the office to mandating minimum days of attendance. The return to the office is becoming more evident in PCA data where, in some cases, physical occupancy is at pre-pandemic levels. There's been a notable uptick in Melbourne with a visible buzz of activity in the Sydney CBD core. Office demand is expected to benefit in the long term from employment growth. Last year, 22,000 white-collar jobs were added to the 4 main CBDs while net absorption was only 48,000 square meters, about 1/3 of the long-term run rate. We expect some of this latent demand to flow through from late 2023 as more normalized office utilization resumes. Thank you. I'll now hand you over to Stewart.

Stewart Hutcheon

executive
#6

Thanks, K.G., and good morning. Turning to the performance of our industrial portfolio, we leased 154,000 square meters across our stabilized properties, which is well above volumes in HY '22. And combined with the development leasing of 60,000 square meters, our total leasing volumes were more than 214,000 square meters for the period. The quality and national footprint of our properties, along with our national customer base bodes well for future leasing efforts as rising transport costs increasingly favor our well-located industrial assets. Portfolio occupancy reduced slightly to 97.4%, driven mainly by expiries at Axxess Corporate Park and our distribution center in Gillman Adelaide, which has since been substantially leased to an existing major Australian customer. Occupancy, excluding business parks, was 99.9%. Incentives reduced to 10.9%, and our portfolio delivered a 1-year total return of 10.2% to the 31st of December. Approximately 46% of space leased in the half was pleasingly linked to annual CPI increases. Effective like-for-like income growth was 2.4% driven by contracted rental growth, offset by downtime and reversions at 2 of our larger facilities. Thanks to strong market rent growth and our leasing efforts, our portfolio was 9.3% under-rented and is set to benefit from our continued market rent growth. However, there is only limited opportunity for rental reversions or stronger like-for-like growth in the very near term due to our lease expiry profile. But looking a bit further out, there is the opportunity to grow income by resetting the rents on vacancy and upcoming lease expiries across approximately 20% of the portfolio by FY '24. Now taking a closer look at what's driving demand. Industrial take-up remains above long-term averages as businesses invest in extra distribution space to cater for last-mile fulfillment. This demand is really broad-based, including medical, supermarkets and retail, transport and, of course, e-commerce. Onshoring of manufacturing will likely continue following the global supply chain uncertainty caused by the pandemic. Warehouse demand is being supported by growing inventory levels as firms adopt a just-in-case business model as a long-term theme. And Dexus' development capability is supporting our customers' growth requirements across Australia and delivers quality new product to the group portfolio. So importantly, we are seen by our customers as a truly national platform. Thank you. Over to Ross.

Ross Du Vernet

executive
#7

Thanks, Stewart, and good morning, everyone. It's been another busy period. We continued with our strategy of capital recycling to improve the balance sheet portfolio quality and provide capacity to fund our growth drivers, being the development and funds businesses. As you can see on the slide, at a group level, we were net sellers for the first half of FY '23. For the balance sheet, we announced nearly $800 million of new sales, bringing total divestments over the past 2 years to over $3 billion. The depth and strength of buyers for assets continued to be weak during the half, with the exception of some of the alternative real estate subsectors like health care. We expect demand for quality assets to marginally improve this year, but we do remain cautious on the prospects for secondary assets and markets. During the half, we reviewed the development book and the underlying assumptions, and circa $1 billion of early-phase concept projects will no longer be pursued. Pleasingly, the remainder of the group's $15 billion pipeline is profitable, with average margins expected in the teens based on current market assumptions. After 6 years of prework, we commenced construction of the first stage of the Waterfront precinct in Brisbane. The project is 45% leased and is expected to complete in 2028. Waterfront takes the balance sheet's development commitments to circa $3.5 billion, of which $2.5 billion remains to be funded over the next 5 years. Beyond Waterfront, the next tranche of projects will focus at derisking and committing our 60 Collins Street in Melbourne and Central Place in Sydney. The group industrial development pipeline sits over 2.5 million square meters of land, of which the balance sheet holds a little under half via a number of funds and JVs. Group development completions for the first half will be marginally lower than we anticipated at the beginning of the year with 250,000 square meters now expected. This is driven by a few factors, including weather and the decision to delay some procurement to improve the competitive tension and project returns. Development leasing has also been slower than anticipated during the first half, with Dexus securing just over 60,000 square meters, but we do expect a second half skew and should finish the year above 150,000 square meters of leasing. Keir has already referenced the trading profit result for the first half. We have a number of opportunities in the existing portfolio, but we're also seeing some interesting deal flow in the market, which we may participate in through the opportunistic fund DREP or via trading depending on the circumstances. Thank you, and I'll now pass you back to Darren.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#8

Thanks, Ross. So to conclude, we have demonstrated resilience in a challenging environment, with our portfolio maintaining strong occupancy and continuing to benefit from the flight to quality. Recycling assets and proactively managing capital has also enabled us to maintain a strong balance sheet. Continued macroeconomic uncertainty and higher interest rates will continue to impact our results for FY '23. Taking all of this into account and barring unforeseen circumstances, guidance has been updated to deliver a distribution of $0.51 to $0.515 per security for the 12 months ended 30th of June 2023, reflecting the higher end of the previously stated guidance range. Thank you, and we'll now open it up for any questions you may have.

Operator

operator
#9

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Sholto Maconochie from Jefferies.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#10

Just a quick one on the guidance. It seems you've tightened at the low end. Is that mainly just due to the lower leasing and maintenance CapEx? I know it normalized in the second half a bit. But is that mainly the main driver of that upgrade?

Keir Barnes

executive
#11

Sholto, it's Keir. CapEx is certainly skewed to the second half. That's pretty consistent with what we've seen in prior periods as well. In terms of guidance, when we originally set guidance, there are a lot of moving parts, including around interest rates, trading profits and potential asset divestments. We now have increased certainty around each of those items, which has given us the confidence to narrow the range. Floating rates are tracking in line with forecast. We've secured trading profits, with the majority realized this half. And we've also made really good progress on asset sales. As Darren mentioned, it's close to $800 million that we've announced so far, $350 million settled in January, which is a bit earlier than we had expected. And outside of those things, our results are tracking slightly better than expected across the business.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#12

That makes sense. And then just an update on the bid-ask spread. You still got quite a few assets in the market. What sort of vendor versus buyer expectations? How far apart are you guys? And where do you think they land?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#13

Yes. Well, look, we've just recently revalued the portfolio. So you'd hope that we'd be very close, if not on valuations, at this point in time. So I think what we saw at the end of last year, there was a lot of uncertainty in the market. There's still a lot of capital out there looking for product. And we certainly -- if you think about the first few weeks of this year, we've had a lot of investors coming in from offshore to review market and to look at assets. So we'll see how it plays out during the course of the next 6 to 12 months. But I think you'll see more capital being deployed this year, hopefully, at valuations. And I'd anticipate a lot of that will happen around the mid- to the back half of the year so, say, Q3.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#14

But you wouldn't -- if say, you have an asset you want to sell, you wouldn't take a 10% discount to the latest book?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#15

We look at all offers that come in, and we have more insight than most in the market. And we look at the alternative -- the returns from the alternative use of that capital at that point in time.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#16

Okay. And then just one for K.G.. It looks like the office leasing went up quite a lot in the period. If you look at it, it was up quite materially on the half and sequentially. And if you look at it in the second quarter, like 63,000 was done and the deals look like a bit bigger. Can you talk about the leasing market and what was driving that increase in the leasing volumes in office?

Kevin George

executive
#17

Sure. A lot of the leasing in the period was forward leasing. So not directly impacting this period, about 60-odd-thousand square meters was forward leasing, Sholto. But we are -- the volume was down, I think, on the corresponding half by about 5%. The previous half was up 20-odd percent on the half before, so it was a busy period. But generally, inquiry volumes now, since the end of the calendar year, have picked up again substantially. And so I think it reflects broader business conditions that are still quite solid, quite positive. And so we're seeing that in general inquiry levels, businesses having confidence to commit to their workplace, their workspace. And we're seeing it across the board, too. Last year, there was probably a little bit of a tick down in some of the larger businesses, more of those in the market now, thinking about future requirements. Small business continues to be active. So we remain cautious because the impact of interest rates will have an effect on some. And we've seen a slowing in transaction volumes. Downtime is pushed out a little bit. But at the moment, it doesn't -- the outlook doesn't look too bad from an occupancy point of view.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#18

Yes. And I guess, that's why the leasing maintenance CapEx probably ticks up second half for that strong leasing in the first period where you potentially pay it out.

Kevin George

executive
#19

That's right. We've got about a 9% skewed to the second half on the CapEx.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#20

Okay. And then, can you talk about any redemptions in across the portfolio from the gross equity flows or any redemptions you had in the fund management business?

Deborah Coakley

executive
#21

Sholto, Deb here. We do have -- we talked at sort of high level about the redemptions we've been fulfilling over the past couple of years. There certainly has been a quite large project involving ADPF, the AMP funds that we bought across sort of 18 months ago. And that redemption facility is just completing now, we're probably 10 days away from finishing that off and stapling that to DWPF. So that has been a very purposeful divestment of assets specifically for that strategy and for those investors. DWPF does have redemptions within its core DWPF investor base at the moment, and we're working through that. Some of that will be facilitated in the next couple of weeks as a result of some divestments that fund has already undertaken. But they're all manageable, and we have certainly a large time period in which to facilitate those, so sort of at least 12, if not 18 months, depending on the fund and its terms and conditions.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#22

And the quantum of the ADPF and DWPF redemptions, do you have a number?

Deborah Coakley

executive
#23

Yes. I think it's probably worthwhile just reiterating that DWPF is a $15 billion fund. So the redemption number, I'd have to say at the moment is entirely manageable. It's not excessive. I don't -- it's a matter for that fund, but just remembering it's a $15 billion fund.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#24

And DWPF?

Deborah Coakley

executive
#25

That is DWPF, the $15 million fund.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#26

We don't disclose third-party capital.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#27

The AMP one, sorry.

Deborah Coakley

executive
#28

The AMP fund was circa $3.5 billion when we acquired it. There was a -- we publicly noted redemptions in that fund and that will be -- it will be clear once that fund staples, what its end value is.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#29

Okay. And then just finally on -- can you talk about the leasing spreads that you got in industrial and office, what they were in the passing rents?

Stewart Hutcheon

executive
#30

In Industrial -- sorry, Sholto, it's Stewart here, and thanks for the question. The spreads in the renewals and industrial, around 17%; and on expires, around 14%.

Kevin George

executive
#31

And Sholto, overall in office, we were negative 19.1%, but that was substantially impacted by Brisbane and leasing. Sydney was negative 10%; Melbourne, negative 11%. Melbourne, pleasingly, sort of moved from the last period negative 15% to negative 11%. And the Brisbane, Perth numbers, they're a little bit skewed because we had some first-generation leasing from developments rolling off at both Alluvion and 480 Queen Street. And our methodology, the original incentives in those developments don't wash through in the amorts through the cash flow. So you have this impact of re-leasing off a clean cash flow. So that's why the number looks light, but...

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#32

Negative spreads, what were they again?

Kevin George

executive
#33

Sydney, negative 10%; and Melbourne, negative 11%. So coming in...

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#34

And the Perth and Brisbane ones, were they negative and how much?

Kevin George

executive
#35

About negative 40%.

Sholto Maconochie

analyst
#36

Okay. And that's clearly effective on that number.

Kevin George

executive
#37

Correct.

Operator

operator
#38

Your next question comes from Stuart McLean at Macquarie.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#39

First question was just at a high level, just regarding the slight shift in that vision from being Australia's leading real estate company to being recognized as Australia's leading real asset investment manager. I was just wondering, what does that mean in terms of proportion of balance sheet asset, portion of FUM and going into infrastructure and other subsectors? What does that shift from real estate to real asset mean in practice?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#40

Yes. Good question, Stuart. We'll be giving further details in the market after we've closed AMP at the back end of the year. But I think if you think at a high level, think about 80% of income coming off fixed assets and 20% more active earnings. And what you will see over time, we've seen a lot of merging of these real assets and things like the hospitals, are they infrastructure or are they real estate; student accommodation, a similar question. With some of the airports, for example, there's a very large industrial land banks around them. So we are seeing a bit of emerging of the asset classes there. So I think you can expect over time that potentially, we'll be taking some of those assets into that coinvestment income. And the returns of those are looking very favorable compared to some of the real estate assets as well.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#41

Should we expect a reduction of real estate assets on balance sheet as a result and maybe holding some more of these infrastructure-type assets on balance sheet? Or is it mainly by coinvestment in real asset funds that's housing that? Just wanted to get the capital opportunity.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#42

I think assume coinvestments, but there may be periods from time to time where we do warehouse really good assets on the balance sheet and then sell them down later on.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#43

Okay. And just a follow-up regarding Collimate. When the deal was originally penned, you provided some guidance on earnings saying they'll be broadly earnings neutral in FY '23 and accretive in FY '24. Just given you've had a bit more time to look at where the fund is going to land, et cetera, I'm just wondering if you can provide a bit more of an update in regards to the earnings impact coming through from that $18 billion of FUM coming onboard.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#44

Yes. Look, obviously, there's been delays now. So assume broadly neutral to this year, no impact. There'll be some accretion coming through in '24, but because of the delay, there will also be some more upside coming through in '25 now, and it's purely because of timing.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#45

Okay. And you also said that, that bridge from 10% to 20% of more active earnings in the funds management book, how far does AMP gets used there from that 10% to 20%? Do they get you halfway there, do you think? Do they get you the majority of the way there?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#46

No. Look, we'll give more detail on that at the full year.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#47

Okay. Great. And then just another one, just regarding -- maybe a question for Keir, just around the convertible that occurred in the first half and just around the reasons for needing to go to a convertible and with conditions that are [ essentially struck ] in the CB holders' favor with the dividend protection. Just why was there a need to go to the market for that facility?

Keir Barnes

executive
#48

Stuart, look, exchangeable notes have been a part of our capital management strategy for a number of years. If you look at the environment last year, there's a lot of volatility. There's only one rate issuance in the domestic MTN market last year. And we're seeing elevated credit spreads in offshore debt capital markets. So we didn't think it was the right time to lock in long-dated debt at those rates. What the exchangeable does provide is diversification of our funding sources. It provides 5-year fixed rate debt, and it also gives us optionality around how we choose to deal with it ahead of its maturity in 2027. So with the benefit of that, we're now sitting with a very strong balance sheet to support the business. Now gearing is 25.6%, well below our target range. We've got a lot of headroom, and we're 85% hedged with a term of close to 5 years now.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#49

Okay. And how do you think about the cost of that facility as it maybe starts to mature to more than just the 3.5% coupon? How does that compare to the [ maturing ] and maybe compared to what you're seeing in offshore markets?

Kevin George

executive
#50

I'd said it's meaningful cost savings versus what we're seeing in alternate sources of debt available at the moment. I think in terms of what it looks like going forward, really, it's going to be a factor of timing and the price at conversion. And naturally, we'll give you more of an update as we get closer to that date.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#51

Yes. Stuart, I think if you go back in time, there's been a lot of uncertainty this year. There was talk of capital markets freezing over. One thing we were very, very focused on is making sure there was never going to be a massive dilutive equity raising from Dexus. That's something we do not want to see on the watch of this management team. And you've seen overnight, in other markets, that kind of thing happening. So rest assured, we are very focused on the balance sheet. It's part of our normal funding package, and we think it was a sensible move at the time, and we still do today.

Stuart McLean

analyst
#52

Okay. And just a final one for me, just on some of the developments. Just looking at maybe 60 Collins Street, as an example. It seems like you're being maybe a little bit more cautious there with less messaging to the market, saying that you'll look at the commerce and capital funding. What are the -- what do you want to see to kick off 60 Collins Street, for example, a sort of derisking needs to occur there to make that comfortable for yourself?

Ross Du Vernet

executive
#53

Stuart, it's Ross. So ideally, we'd like a tenant that would help really to validate the product there. I don't think we're looking for a significant pre-let, but we are looking to push the envelope in terms of the product we want to bring to market and the price point for that. So I think getting some validation of that product from a high-quality tenant, seeing some momentum behind that initial tenant, would be sort of key. And we are very focused around how we bring capital partners into either that project or other projects in the book, very mindful of the significant funding commitments we've already made in the development book. We've got $2.5 billion to fund over the next 5 years, we have certainly capacity within our means to do that. But as we look at these incremental projects, we do need to solve for funding. And that's part and parcel of what we're working through.

Operator

operator
#54

[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from Simon Chan at Morgan Stanley.

Simon Chan

analyst
#55

I've got a question on funds management. So you guys have done really well, over the last 6 months, raising a stack of capital. Just wondering, what's the outlook on actual capital deployment? If I use DREP1 as an example, that's $1 billion now, and you've spent very little. Are you guys waiting for vendors' price expectations to come down before you invest in some of those more opportunistic assets? Like, yes, what's your thoughts on that deployment?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#56

Yes. So that's been a really interesting insight into the market for us that fund. So last year, we were getting sort of 3 or 4 interesting deals a month. I think in the last month, we looked at over 60 transactions. So if you think about that fund, it deals with debt, it deals with equity, it's anything to do with real estate in Australia and right across the asset classes. So deal flow is increasing, and that will be probably deployed over the course of this year, probably more towards the middle of the year. But there's a couple of interesting transactions we're looking right now in funding and there's some interesting industrial real estate plays in there as well.

Simon Chan

analyst
#57

Great. My second question, Darren, if I go back to last year's presentation, I think you were talking about looking to slow down 35% of the Atlassian. I think there were some nonbinding HOA done there. You still have 100% now. Is that deal still a work in progress? Or has there been a change in strategy?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#58

Yes. So I think if you think about that asset, we think it's going to be one of the best assets in Sydney when it's finally completed. The construction is going very well. Back end of last year, there was a lot of uncertainty with third-party capital and what's happening in markets. And to be very upfront, we just couldn't agree at the right pricing with the capital partners, there are a couple in the room. So what we've decided to do is just to make further progress with the development. It's in a position to sell down at some stage. In the coming years, we'll look to sell down a proportion of that property.

Operator

operator
#59

Your next question comes from Richard Jones at JPMorgan.

Richard Jones

analyst
#60

Just in relation to the alternate capital structure on Collimate, is that just a lower price? Is that what you mean by the alternate transaction structure?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#61

Yes. It's quite a complex structure involved in the actual makeup of the business. Remember, it was put together over sort of 30, 40 years. So there's a bit of unpicking of structures and some governance stuff that we are working through. It is a very complex situation. And as we disclosed, the price has been revisited as well.

Richard Jones

analyst
#62

And just the progress on the shopping center fund, there was some press suggesting that investors had elected to stay with the existing management. Can you just confirm that?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#63

Deb, do you want to comment on that?

Deborah Coakley

executive
#64

Sure. The management of that fund is still with AMP Capital and will be. I believe, very publicly GPT have withdrawn their interest in that fund. And we are in constant engagement with the investors of that fund as we work through its current liquidity window with the fund team over at AMP.

Richard Jones

analyst
#65

Okay. And sneaking a third question, if I may, just can you give us, Darren, an example of a high-conviction opportunity that you would be happy to warehouse? Just what type of opportunities are you looking at there?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#66

Let's say, a proportion of Melbourne Airport came up, that is something potentially that we could warehouse and then sell down to some of our capital partners.

Operator

operator
#67

Your next question comes from James Druce at CLSA.

James Druce

analyst
#68

I was just after a bit more color on some of the development yields. I mean, the range for Atlassian is 4% to 5%. That's a very wide range. And Brisbane, similarly at Waterfront, 5% to 6%. Do you expect to be hitting the upper end or the midpoint of those ranges? Or where do things sit today?

Ross Du Vernet

executive
#69

James, it's Ross. Look, well, I don't think they're particularly wide ranges based on how we've reported in the past. These are long-dated projects. I think Atlassian finishes '26, Waterfront is 2028. And if you take Waterfront as an example, there's actually -- there's good momentum in that market. So actually, where we land those final rents may actually have a pretty big impact on the upside to it. So that's what's driving, I guess, some of the variance there. And I think we do like to -- I wouldn't say surpass on the upside, but we would like to be at the top end of those ranges. But there's a lot of time to pass and a few moving pieces still, so we leave it at that.

James Druce

analyst
#70

Okay. And maybe one for Kevin George. Just the CapEx that you've leased ahead, the 63,000 square meters that you spoke about, when do the incentives hit for that?

Kevin George

executive
#71

Most will hit in FY '24, some in '25, James.

Operator

operator
#72

Your next question comes from Ben Brayshaw at Barrenjoey.

Benjamin Brayshaw

analyst
#73

Could you discuss what you're seeing in relation to office markets and take-up? Perhaps a question for yourself, Kevin as well, just around what tenant types you're seeing the strongest demand from. And what are you seeing in relation to tenants in terms of how they're responding to low levels of utilization?

Kevin George

executive
#74

Sure. Look, the interest in the market has been fairly diverse, widespread from government and some segments or sectors to professional services, some parts of financial services. I think the weak elements of the market might be some of the tech players. And interestingly, in the U.S., it's an interesting proxy for what's going on here, but since COVID about 870-odd thousand jobs were created in the tech sector, which is about 6% of their white-collar workforce. And all the layoffs announced recently amount to about 9% of those new jobs that were put on since COVID and not quite similar things happening here, but similar proportion, I think. And so -- but yes, across the board, demand from wide and various sectors. And I think in the city, I mentioned in my remarks that we're seeing a lot of companies coming into the CBD in Sydney particularly, Melbourne, the fringe markets as well. So some of the outlying suburban markets are losing companies, too, that are coming closer into the city or into the city. And I think that's a feature of the flight to quality normally seen in this part of the cycle. And so as it relates to more broadly workplace issues, I mentioned in my remarks that companies are increasingly becoming frustrated with what they see as detrimental productivity outcomes, dilution of their cultures, and are very keen to get their people back to work. I think the labor market pressures that are coming off, companies are moving as fast as they can. The HR teams are willing to let them to push people back into the office, and more and more mandating minimum days back. So I think you're going to see utilization rates significantly increase over the course of the year. I think different companies will have different strategies. I think we still have a little ways to play out in terms of what hybrid working means for many organizations. But I think you're seeing a real shift now to much more of a normalized return-to-office utilization.

Benjamin Brayshaw

analyst
#75

Yes. That's great, Kevin. And I was wondering if you could expand on which markets you're seeing face rental growth come through? And are there any instances where that is also translating into a reduction in incentive?

Kevin George

executive
#76

Look, face rent growth has been a feature of all markets, pretty much since COVID. I think we think the equalizer, if you like, the market adjustment has been through incentives. So face rents continue to grow. And I think Sydney, particularly, we saw incentives at the premium end come back from, in our book, 31% at FY '22 back to 27.2% this period. So the top end of the market in Sydney, there's certainly signs of life and improvement as it's getting tighter. The new supply over the next 5 years, I think average is just a bit over 1% a year. So I think the top end of the market in Sydney looks pretty good for the next few years. I think some of the rest of the market will have its challenges depending on the extent of demand through that period.

Benjamin Brayshaw

analyst
#77

And could you offer any comments on face rental growth in Melbourne as well, please?

Kevin George

executive
#78

Well, as I said, face rent growth across all -- has been a feature of all markets. And I think Melbourne, no different, that will continue to grow. And I think the leasing spreads in Melbourne came in over the 6 months too from, as I said before, negative 15% to negative 11%. So incentives again at the top end of the market there, improving, and face rents continue to grow. So I'll just would add to, just in terms of face rents, there is still life in the development pipeline of ours and others in the market and new development with increased costs, with potentially softer cap rates. The economics of new development is meaning that rents required are going up. And so some of those rents obviously will translate into the broader market for existing assets, and that's obviously having a positive impact on our existing portfolio.

Operator

operator
#79

Your next question comes from Tom Bodor at UBS.

Tom Bodor

analyst
#80

I was just interested in your comment around growing the fund business to sort of circa 20% of the active business and just what the capital implications are from what you need to coinvest and whether that could have implications for the payout ratio over time.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#81

Look, I think we'll give further color as the year progresses. But I think -- don't expect that we always have to put coinvestment into funds. So DWPF, our largest fund, we've been running it for 30 years, $15 billion, as Deb mentioned earlier. We have no coinvestment in that fund.

Tom Bodor

analyst
#82

Okay. Sure. So is that another way of saying that you think the payout ratio can remain where it is as you grow that business? Or...

Darren Steinberg

executive
#83

I think at this stage, yes, our payout ratio is in line with free cash flow. That's what we pay out. And if there's any change to that, we'll update the market accordingly.

Tom Bodor

analyst
#84

And then on the Collimate business, sort of putting financial metrics aside, can you just comment on sort of the people that you're bringing across now that the funds under management have thus changed a bit since you sort of initiated the transaction. I think it was initially around 600 people. How many people do you expect to integrate into the Dexus platform?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#85

I think with the changes that happened since we first announced -- remember, when we first announced it, it was about $28 billion. So the $18 billion we're bringing across now, there's circa 450-odd people that will be coming across that are coming across now, and our teams are actively working on a daily basis with those people. So there's a lot of 2-way flow between the 2 organizations, and we're super excited about bringing them onboard and onboarding all those funds, and we're working with the investors and growing those funds over time. It's a challenging time in funds, as we've spoken about today, and you're seeing across the whole market. But we are super excited about what bringing together those 2 platforms does for us and our ability to grow that over the coming years and, as we said before, into, hopefully, Australia's leading real asset manager. And we have a lot of great different avenues to grow our business with that acquisition. And we're seeing -- from the insights we're getting now, we are super pumped about it.

Operator

operator
#86

Your next question comes from Andy MacFarlane at Jarden.

Andrew MacFarlane

analyst
#87

You just mentioned before in terms of physical occupancy, just wondering, one for Kevin, maybe wondering what the current physical occupancy or utilization is across your portfolio and how does that differ.

Kevin George

executive
#88

Yes. So the -- I think we're still waiting on the latest industry stats to come. But in our portfolio, and we're sort of tracking broadly in line with the PCA data, it's ticking up around, on average, 50% to 60%, 65% and I think probably skewed more to the premium and better A-grade buildings in the portfolio, in the central downtown locations. So they are the ones that probably are pushing those pre-pandemic levels of 80% to 90% physical occupancy through the week. But yes, some assets, some of the more fringe assets and suburban assets and/or government assets in Melbourne, particularly Premium there seems to be very relaxed about when the public service come back to the office. They're much lower.

Andrew MacFarlane

analyst
#89

And just one other, just in terms of the guidance. Just wondering -- I mean, you sold $800 million across the first half. You got $350 million, I think, you said coming in January. How much does guidance assume in terms of capital recycling for the full year?

Keir Barnes

executive
#90

Andrew, it's Keir. When we issued guidance back in August, we assumed we'd do circa $1 billion of asset divestments, and we still anticipate we'll realize something in that order. I expect settlement, though, for those ones will probably be toward the back end of the year.

Andrew MacFarlane

analyst
#91

So anything that you're selling it at the moment, you're expecting it to be FY '24 outcomes?

Keir Barnes

executive
#92

Generally, I think by the late FY '23 or early FY '24.

Operator

operator
#93

Your next question comes from Alex Prineas at Morningstar.

Alexander Prineas

analyst
#94

Just on the -- noting the sort of improving NABERS ratings and ESG ratings and so forth across the portfolio, what would it take to get the remainder of the portfolio up to sort of 5.5-, 6-star NABERS Energy ratings. Is it -- can that be done by sort of incremental improvements? Or does a lot of the remainder would have to be done by kind of knock down and rebuild?

Darren Steinberg

executive
#95

Well, knocking down and rebuilding isn't very sustainable in the overall context. But look, we'll come back to you on that. It's quite a complex answer. It's not a one -- there's not one size fits all. But Kevin, do you want to make...

Kevin George

executive
#96

Yes. I think there's a number of assets that are in the portfolio that are earmarked as part of development sites, and it doesn't really make a lot of economic sense to play our investment into those to get the NABERS up for a year or 2 before they're redeveloped. But yes, they are -- I think that's probably where the drag on the portfolio is. But I think the stabilized portfolio where we have made an investment over of more than a decade, approaching 2 decades, has been a very good investment because the portfolio is very well placed. And so I think we're not going to spend abortive money on assets that are going to be leveled in the next 4 or 5 years.

Stewart Hutcheon

executive
#97

And to add to that, Stewart here, product like what we've done down at Ravenhall. Some of that 6 star and obviously skewing things upwards as we recycle capital into those sorts of projects. That's where the industrial portfolio is going.

Alexander Prineas

analyst
#98

Okay. And just on Slide 18, on the statistics around 64% of tenants that renewed expanded the space and only 2% of renewals were contractions. Presumably, that's only including tenants that renewed with Dexus. So I was wondering, if you looked at tenants that sort of exited the Dexus portfolio, is there any reason to think those stats would look significantly different?

Kevin George

executive
#99

Yes. So of the tenants that moved into the portfolio, 53% of the new deals, the customers were upgrading. And about 23% of those, we're taking more space.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#100

Some market color, the CBRE have a good report out recently that shows there is a significant skew to the upside in terms of the rents that customers are paying upon renewal. And I think on average rent, customers are paying 9% to 10% more rent upon renewal. And yes, there is a small tail that is downsizing and paying less rent, very cost conscious, but the SKU is definitely on the upside.

Operator

operator
#101

That concludes our question-and-answer session. I'd now like to hand the call back for closing remarks. Thank you.

Darren Steinberg

executive
#102

Thanks, everyone, for joining us today, and we look forward to catching up with many of you over the coming weeks. Have a good day.

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