Digi Communications N.V. (53N.F) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Digi Communications N.V. Investors Half Year of 2025 Financial Results Presentation. A copy of the corresponding report is posted in the Investor Relations section of Digi's website at digi-communications.ro. The conference is being recorded today, and a replay will be available shortly after. [Operator Instructions] Before we get started, you are advised that certain statements in this conference call are forward-looking and therefore subject to material risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from those stated or implied by such forward-looking statements due to the risks and uncertainties associated with Digi Communications N.V., which include, amongst others, various risks related to our business, risks related to regulatory matters and litigation, risks related to investments in emerging markets, risks related to our financial position as well as risks related to the notes and the related guarantee. I would like to introduce the speakers for today's call, Mr. Serghei Bulgac, the CEO of Digi Communications N.V.; and Mr. Dan Ionita, the company's CFO. We may now begin the call.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Digi's Second Quarter 2025 Results Call. We are very happy to host you in our meeting room, and we would like to present our 2025 results. So another outstanding extraordinary quarter in terms of growth in revenues, also customers. We've exceeded more than EUR 1.1 [ billion ] in sales, representing 21% growth year-on-year. RGU numbers approach 30 million milestone. I believe as we speak, this milestone is already surpassed by our group companies. Overall, year-on-year, 17% growth, again, an outstanding result. Adjusted EBITDA, EUR 339 million, 2% growth. Adjusted EBITDA without IFRS 16 numbers at EUR 278 million. Romanian RGUs, higher 7%, robust performance, robust growth, very much in line with the previous quarters and with the previous year, of course, mostly or significantly driven by mobile users. And also, it's pretty nice to present very round numbers, 7 million mobile users, 6 million Pay TV users and 5 million Broadband users for Romania. Spain, another outstanding quarter, almost 30% growth in terms of RGUs. And similarly, most of the growth driven by Mobile, 24%, up to 6.6 million units. Broadband, 35% growth to 2.3 million RGUs and Fixed Telephony 33% growth to more than 700,000 RGUs. In 2025, we continued our strategy. I think we had many significant -- well, many changes in comparison to our previous quarters. We continue focusing on expanding our mobile segment, the largest segment representing about half of our portfolio. And again, just repeating the previous numbers, Romanian mobile RGUs being up 13%, Spanish, 24% and Italian 12% during the period, outstanding results, outstanding growth achieved by our group companies, by our colleagues, of course, thanks to our customers. We continue network development, most importantly in Spain and of course, in other markets as well, Romania and Portugal. And we continue focusing on Portugal and Belgium, as we will discuss in more detail during the presentation. As of the second quarter, we had almost 800,000 RGUs in Portugal, most of them in mobile. And we had 62 sic [62,000] mobile users in Belgium on our MVNO network operating in partnership with Proximus. Just a few words on the recent announcement, recent developments announced by us. So a few weeks ago, the Romanian Competition Authority, the Competition Council has approved that Digi and Vodafone take over the mobile operations of OTE Deutsche Telekom Group in Romania. The company is called Telekom Romania Mobile. As a result of this approval, we have the administrative clearance to take certain assets like frequencies, customers and -- prepaid customers and a certain number of mobile towers from this transaction. The transaction is not complete yet. It's in the final stages of completion, just subject to several -- few amendments or few changes to -- a few actions to reach the final agreement between the 3 parties I mentioned earlier and the approval of ANCOM, the Romanian mobile -- the Romanian, sorry, telecom regulator. Another announcement that we made in mid-July is the fact that we streamlined, we simplified our Belgian operations in partnership with Citymesh, our partners in Belgium. As a result of this change, on one hand, the entire group of Belgian companies is controlled by only one company, which is Digi Communications Belgium. And we, Digi Group own 51% of this company. It should help us, on one hand, consolidate financially the results of Belgian operations, starting with the second quarter. We hope it will also help us streamline or simplify the management structure of the Belgian operation going forward. So moving on, coming back to the numbers, EUR 560 million of revenues in the second quarter. Just a second, please, just a second. EUR 560 million of revenues in the second quarter, almost EUR 300 million in revenues in Romania, EUR 240 million in revenues in Spain, EUR 17 million in Portugal and almost EUR 9 million of revenues in Italy. EBITDA for the quarter, EUR 168 million. And as I mentioned, RGUs 30 million group-wide, almost 90 million RGUs in Romania, almost 10 million RGUs in Spain, 800,000 in Portugal and 500,000 in Italy. So yes, we see this as an outstanding performance and continuation of both our efforts and the commercial momentum that we have in both -- in all markets, established and new. Just going further into details of our results. We had revenues of EUR 549 million in the second quarter. So revenues excluding other income with other income, it's EUR 560 million, as I mentioned before, compared to EUR 475 million a year before. EBITDA, including IFRS 16, EUR 168 million on par with EBITDA of EUR 170 million a year ago. CapEx of EUR 226 million in the second quarter, less than EUR 240 million a year ago, somewhat higher than we had in the first quarter at about EUR 180 million. As we were discussing, group revenues had a very good performance, 18% in the quarter, more than 20% in the first 6 months, primarily driven by Spanish operations by the growth in customers -- outstanding growth in customers that we achieved. I think we'll discuss Spain in a bit more detail later on, but followed by a very robust, very good performance in Romania and of course, followed by the additions to our operations from Portugal. As you may recall, a year ago, we did not have any revenues, any sales in Portugal. So EUR 17 million that we generated in the second quarter in Portugal with a pure addition year-on-year. As I mentioned, EBITDA stood more or less flat, EUR 168 million in comparison to EUR 170 million a year before. If you look at EBITDA less IFRS 16, we had EUR 138 million in comparison to EUR 145 million a year before in the quarter, which is a 5% decline. It's a rare event in our case. In fact, probably we -- since we listed the company and apart from the moment of selling Hungarian operations, we did not have any decline. On the other hand, I just want to say that we see this as a temporary situation, particularly connected to the launch of the Portuguese operations. It's the [ second ] quarter of Portuguese activities in Portugal since we launched. It's the second full quarter in Portugal. And this is the moment when we are seeing most of the costs crystallizing, but we still have to gain more market share to be efficient. And this is exactly what we are doing. We are making our operations both more efficient, and we are focusing on sales and distribution to make sure that we are covering these costs well in the future. Coming back to CapEx, which I mentioned a bit earlier. So I did mention that we spent EUR 226 million in the second quarter. The overall CapEx spend for the 6 months of 2025 was somewhat less than EUR 400 million, EUR 395 million. I mean, still in line with our expectation for the full year CapEx of EUR 750 million, EUR 750 million plus, again, a bit higher than in the second quarter in comparison to the first quarter. Now we will probably discuss it in the Q&A. I think the guidance for the CapEx is increasing slightly towards EUR 100 million, maybe it's EUR 110 million, EUR 120 million for the rest of the year. And this including the telecom acquisition, this including -- this includes the CapEx of Belgium once we consolidate the Belgian operations. And this should also, of course, include the CapEx that has been already spent. So RGUs, we are very proud about the number of almost EUR 30 million. You'll hear this information again during our next call when we will announce certainly more than EUR 30 million RGUs. It's a big milestone for us, of course, more than 30 years of continuous work. Most of the RGUs that we gained during our operations, certainly more than 90% are the result of organic growth. This basically underlines strategy and the focus of our group, of our company. This also shows the success of our engagement with our customers, also the trust of our customers, but also the hard work of many colleagues across all the countries that we operate in. As I mentioned just a bit earlier, 14.5 million mobile RGUs, almost half of our customer base is mobile users at this moment, 7.4 million broadband users and more than 6.1 -- sorry, close to 6.2 million Pay TV users, a portion -- so -- so far, since we sold Hungary, we were reporting mostly Pay TV users -- sorry, we were solely reporting Pay TV users just for Romania. In the meantime, in the last 6 months, we launched TV operations in Portugal. We launched TV operations in Spain. And as you see, this worked very well. So all in all, we exceeded 6.1 million -- we have almost 6.2 million users. Spanish operations are 9.7 million RGUs, outstanding growth of almost 30% year-on-year from 7.5 million RGUs. Romanian RGUs also at a robust growth trajectory of 7% almost 19 million from 17.5 million users a year ago. And the Portuguese operations, 790,000 users, combining both the Nowo operations and Digi operations that we run combined in the territory. Not to mention, of course, Italy had also a good performance with more than 12% growth at 512,000 RGUs in mobile. Excuse me, the PowerPoint is frozen. Sorry, I'm missing my buttons. Now should be okay. Yes. So what we want to present here, and this is the first time we go into more details about Spain. And I think this is somewhat long overview. We were supposed to maybe go into more details about our Spanish operations some time ago. But this is a deeper dive into the structure of customers, of networks of assets. And once again, we are extremely proud to have added more than 2.1 million RGUs during the last year ending on June 2025. 1.3 million mobile additions, 600,000 broadband additions and almost 200,000 fixed telephony additions. I mentioned telephony earlier -- I mentioned TV earlier, 90,000 customers in the first 6 months of the operation. From a total of 2.26 million broadband users, 1.8 million are on the Digi Smart footprint. And just to explain, the Digi Smart network is a network that has originally been built by Digi, some of it owned and controlled and operated by us. Some of it owned by Macquarie or Macquarie through Onivia and some of it is operated by our joint venture with Aberdeen. All in all, this is 81% of our customers. So as you see, most of our customers are on our network. And the coverage of our smart footprint exceeds now 12.4 million homes. These are active homes, serviceable homes, homes that we can address and connect in real time as we speak. This is part of the total commitment to build in the next year -- in the next few years, 20 million homes passed. So we are -- and as you see in the last 12 months, the increase was from 9.6 million to 12.4 million users, an increase of almost 2.8 million homes passed. This is high speed given that all this development is organic and is driven by our large and committed teams in Spain. And maybe the last, I hope you appreciate this number. The take-up of Smart footprint is almost 15% today. Of course, it varies with all the networks having significantly more than 20% penetration and new networks having smaller numbers. But overall, we wanted to share these numbers, which are outstanding. And yes, we can't emphasize enough on how committed are we to these numbers and also how satisfied with these results. So 15% penetration on our smart footprint to date. Portability in Romania amounted to almost 380,000 users in the first 6 months of the year. In the same period, in Spain, profitability, gross profitability exceeded 670,000 users, of which net profitability was close to 430,000 users. It's a continuation of both our efforts, but also the appreciation of the customers for our services in these 2 markets. And this shows the quality of our sales effort in these territories. Just a few numbers -- a few words on the financial profile. We have the total net debt at EUR 1.58 billion with leverage at 2.8x. The debt has increased by around EUR 200 million since the beginning of the year due to refinancings and financings that we did both in Spain and in Romania. On the right-hand side on the upper chart, you see the repayment profile with EUR 72 million due this year, EUR 100 million due in 2026 and EUR 252 million due in 2027. So pretty reasonable repayment profile. We have no expectation -- I mean, there was a slight increase in the leverage ratio from the end of 2024 from 2.3x to 2.8x. There is no intention for us to go higher. We will certainly remain by the end of the year in this territory of 2.5 to 2.8, 2.9. And eventually, we will decrease at the end of the year, beginning of next year coming back to 2.3, 2.5 zone at least. So no changes in our strategy or intentions or profile outlook. And to conclude, we are -- I'd say we are very happy with the performance. We are very much committed to our established markets, Romania and Spain, which will continue developing their operations as we go. We are focusing on Spain to improve profitability, especially in the second part of the year, given our transition to Telefonica RAN sharing model from the MVNO model that we run up until today. We are also focusing very much on streamlining, on improving the growth and improving the profitability in both our Portuguese and Belgian operations. So this remains our focus. Lots of work to do. And we certainly will continue coming back with strong both growth results, but also robust profitability as we did in the past. And having said this, I think we are complete with the formal part, and you are welcome to start the Q&A.

Sorry, Zoom has changed a bit interface for showing the questions. We need to figure ourselves out somehow, but we will start. So -- and by the way, it looks like a chat room. So every person has its own room. And if you ask questions later and we don't see them, we'll have to figure out how we do about it. Yes. But first question is from Ganesh from Barclays. Could you please provide some color on why RGU momentum slowed in Belgium in second quarter? And how do you see the trends ahead? I think we had -- we experienced more or less the same dynamic in Portugal and in Belgium, the fact that there was great expectation, big expectation from the market from the entrance of the new operator that has been satisfied to a certain extent by the launch of our operations in November and December, but also during the Q1 which has stayed somewhat in the second quarter. Having said this, we are busy in both markets in establishing further increasing our distribution channels. As we know, this is the most important way of doing sales from our past experience, both in Romania and Spain. And we will certainly regain this momentum in the coming quarters. But I think this is a very simple answer to your question. The second question from Ganesh. Are you considering taking wholesale route to offer fixed services in Belgium? Look, we are always open to any opportunities in all markets. We are offering wholesale services in Spain, and we can offer wholesale services in any other market. So far, we were not able to reach agreements or terms with other operators that would make this attractive. So we're not considering this at this very particular moment, but it's not a norm. Now we move forward. So we have 2 questions from Piotr Raciborski. You have revenue in Portugal in second quarter '25 declined versus first quarter of 2025. I'm not sure -- Piotr, I'm not sure I follow you. We don't have revenue declining. The revenue is certainly higher, both combining our Nowo and our Digi operations. If you refer to something else, kindly rephrase it. And second question from Piotr. The net adds in Portugal doesn't seem especially strong. Are you satisfied with the performance in this market? So I think I've already touched in answering Ganesh's question a bit earlier. We see the same dynamic both in Portugal and in Belgium. We don't see this as [ resolutary ] or final in any way. We are working to connect to the customers that would be -- that are interested for digi services, and we certainly intend to improve it in the quarters coming up. Yes. Sorry, just coming back to Piotr's question and Dan has corrected me. The -- indeed, there's a slight decrease in revenues in Portugal in the second quarter in comparison to the first quarter and it comes only from the fact that we are migrating Nowo customers to Digi. The migration is done on the ARPUs of Digi, which are more than historically what Nowo customers paid in the past. And basically, that's why we have a decline. But we don't have decline towards our expectation. And yes, we are pretty satisfied with our revenues in Portugal at this moment. Yes. A question from Bojan Djurickovic. Could you please explain tax income tailwind in the second quarter? So the tax income tailwind in the second quarter comes from the Portuguese operations, of course, being at the beginning and having large operational losses, they come also with the opposite effect of deferred tax assets, and this is the result. The question from [indiscernible]. Congratulations for the results. When do you expect profitability to improve? What are the financial implications in changing Spain from MVNO to MNO? Thank you very much for the appreciation, and thank you very much for the question. First of all, we do not -- if you look at 2025 overall, we do not expect 2025 to be worse than 2024. What we see now in the second quarter is, I'd say, is a cumulative effect of the fact that we are -- we have just launched the Portuguese operations on one hand. And second, we also see to a certain extent, less profitability in Spain, given the fact that we have adjusted the pricing of certain packages and ARPU has declined, as you have seen probably from the presentation from EUR 8.8 a year ago to EUR 8.1 per RGU this year. So these 2 factors -- these 2 factors have impacted us. If you -- on the EBITDA level, if you look also at net income level, there was a less material factor in Romania, particularly ForEx. We had a ForEx cost of about EUR 10 million in the second quarter related to the depreciation of RON from 4.97 level to approximately 5.07 level by the end of June. Of course, we all know this was -- this happened somehow in the context of the Romanian election. But most likely, this reset and psychological jump from less than 5 to more than 5 is going to continue. On the other hand, our expectation for the exchange rate is to remain continuous. So we don't expect further losses from here. Coming back to the main factors, coming back to the most important ones, and I repeat myself, but I will try to repeat myself as many times as possible. The largest operational loss comes from the Portuguese operations. And we do not expect this loss to be higher than that. We will do our best efforts to maintain it and to certainly improve it, one, by growing our customer base; second, also managing controlling the costs as we do everywhere. In terms of Spain, it's a bit different. Spain benefits from growth in customers. And as we continue our operations, the Spanish profitability improves. And yes, Spain is also changing its model from MVNO and MNO. And this -- and these changes itself, the natural growth and the change in model should add at least I'd say, EUR 25 million, EUR 30 million addition to EBITDA in the second half of 2025. So our Spanish operations are turning around, improving rapidly, having very strong momentum. Our new operations are basically in the most difficult part, launch relatively low number of customers and lots of work for us to adjust and to improve. But all in all, we do not expect a decrease. We expect rather a small increase in EBITDA for 2025 in comparison to 2024. And of course, we expect further growth in EBITDA more or less in line with our previous results going forward. Next question from Christian. How would you characterize Belgium operations and Portugal operations start? Is it according to plan? Well, I think I mentioned it many times. We don't have rigid plans. And we have -- in our view, we have very good response from the customers. We have very good -- I think we see customers that have expected services like ours, and we see continuous demand. So it's really for us to adjust our activities to adjust our operations, just to connect to our customers or to our future potential customers through the appropriate sales channels. So it's a lot of work to organize sales as we go forward. But having said this, yes, we -- once again, we see good demand. We see good traction, and we see good response from the customers in these categories. And this is important for us. Question from Andre. When do you expect to start the stock buyback approved in shareholders' meeting? I mean, we -- the Board is authorized by the shareholders' meeting to buy stock for certain reasons. There's no immediate plan to do so. If we change our decision, we'll certainly announce the market, but there's no immediate plan to do so. How do you see the profitability in the second half of 2025? So I think I described it, certainly improving in comparison to the first half of 2025 in line and higher with profitability of 2024. So yes, I hope this is helpful. A question from Giovanni [indiscernible]. Can you please update us on, one, amount of undrawn credit lines available to the group as of second quarter 2025? And second, number of homes passed and sites rollout in Portugal. Giovanni, I think we owe you this answer from our last call. Let us come back to you in the coming minutes as we speak. Number of homes passed and size rollout in Portugal, we are not disclosing this number. So what I mentioned on the previous calls is we are working -- we are working towards the end of this year, beginning of next year to more or less cover half of the Portugal, and this work is on track. But we are not publishing more detailed results at this moment. That's helpful. The next question, can you please comment on the EBITDA impact that we expect from the consolidation of Belgium for third and fourth quarter 2025? Yes. So thank you very much. Indeed, we expect negative EBITDA because, of course, we are beginning our operations in Belgium at this moment. And this expectation is in the area of EUR 10 million to EUR 20 million for the second half, all in all for 2025. For 2026, I don't have a guidance at this moment, but we would do our best so that this number is not deepened, but to the contrary, it's improved. A question from Laura [indiscernible]. What is the consideration for Telekom Romania assets? And does this mainly include spectrum? Thank you for the question, Laura. We will abstain from going into details on this topic in any case before the transaction is completed. So we cannot comment more on this point of view at this point. But certainly, the transaction includes spectrum and spectrum is important to Digi as we are a growing operator in Romania also. And second part of the question, can you confirm full year 2025 CapEx guidance of EUR 750 million? So I just repeat what we mentioned a bit earlier while going through the slide. Looking at our results so far, we are more or less in line. However, with the consolidation of Belgium and with the acquisition of Telekom, this number may go up slightly towards EUR 800 million -- yes, EUR 800 million, maybe just above EUR 800 million. Thank you, and I hope it's helpful. Will you consolidate Belgium going forward given your 51% stake? Yes, I believe so. It's an accounting question, but this is our intention. Do you still expect Portugal to reach breakeven within 1 to 2 years? Well, thank you. It's a question that is very much on our minds as well. And we certainly aim to -- I mean, we certainly want to improve to reach breakeven in 1 to 2 years. It may be that the breakeven comes in 2 to 3 years. But more or less, we are in line with your expectation as well. A question from Jeremy [indiscernible]. How will consolidating Belgium impact leverage? How much CapEx do you expect to spend in Belgium on fixed and mobile? Is the plan still to get to 50% fixed coverage in Portugal by year-end? And what is the current coverage? Well, thank you. So the first question, our Belgian operations do not have any financial debt at this moment. So consolidating the Belgian operations is neutral on the leverage from the debt perspective. And from the EBITDA perspective, there's certainly a small decrease, as I described earlier; however, at this moment, this decrease is compensated with growth elsewhere in the group. So we do not expect the addition of Belgium or consolidating Belgium at this stage to change our leverage. And once again, this is not our intention to worsen the leverage for any reason also for the reason of Belgium. I do hope that my explanation is both helpful and clear. How much CapEx do you expect to spend in Belgium on fixed and mobile? So while we are consolidating Belgium and while we are operating Belgium with 51% ownership, it's still a partnership in which we participate both of us [indiscernible]. So we expect that going forward, the Belgian operations will be funded -- will continue to be funded by both of us. Speaking of our share, I'd say that the CapEx spend on Belgium should be in the area of EUR 50 million per year. Is the plan still to get to 50% coverage in Portugal by year-end? And what is the current coverage? So we're not really disclosing the coverage. But yes, we are working towards that, as we mentioned earlier, be it the year-end or soon thereafter. The question from [indiscernible]. How many RGUs added a loan this quarter, not counting Nowo existing clients? How will you control costs in Portugal to improve the losses? Yes. Sorry, I think it's a valid question. And it's a valid question. But the positions that we have, the -- yes, one second, the 34,000 RGUs that we added in the quarter, these are mostly the additions to Digi network because we are focusing on sales mostly in digital operations and less so in Nowo operations. So I think the answer is relatively simple. We, of course, have churn in Nowo's operations, which gives the total number of gross additions in Digi somewhat higher, but I don't have the numbers handy to reply at this moment. How will we control costs in Portugal to improve the losses? Well, at this moment, as I mentioned during the presentation, we are in the second full quarter of operating -- of operations. We have set up mostly all the necessary systems in terms of technical teams, sales teams, customer support teams, but also the network setup is there and so on and so forth. Of course, being at the beginning, the share of fixed costs in relation to particularly the mobile network is pretty high, and it's there to stay. So we are working to increase the number of customers. We will not expand into any other areas except of sales to make sure that our operations are streamlined rather sooner than later. So this is -- in a few words, these are the areas of focus for us going forward. A question from [indiscernible]. Will you deliver another part of the Spanish network to Macquarie this year? The agreement was to deliver over 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. What will be the impact of delivery on Digi's P&L? So yes, we continuously deliver homes to the Spanish Macquarie network. Basically, sale of homes passed to Macquarie is a profit to us. Difficult -- sorry, I don't have numbers handy, but basically, any sale that we generate profit. Question from [indiscernible]. If Altice decides to sell its Portuguese subsidiary, would you be interested in it? Look, I mean, it's not our focus. As we mentioned throughout most of our discussions, we are organic player. MEO, Altice Portugal is -- the Portuguese incumbent, is a very large company. So not a typical target for us. But yes, you never say never. So -- but this is something we can say we're not working on at this moment. What is the EBITDA outlook in Spain in the second half of 2025 given the affordable products in place and the transition to MNO model. So I think I mentioned that we intend to increase EBITDA in Spain in the second half of the year by at least EUR 30 million from what we achieved in the first half of the year. But the growth could be -- EUR 30 million, but the growth could be higher. When can we expect the consolidation of Telekom Romania Mobile? So this is a work in process. I think all parties aim for completion in the coming weeks, but there's nothing more to report at this moment. When it will be finished, when it will be completed, we will come back to with our results. Yes. So I have to apologize, I think, in a way, there was some change to the Zoom interface, and we were getting questions in a strange manner. We hope we answered all of them so far, but that's all that we got, so 30 minutes of discussion. If there are questions that we couldn't answer for technical reasons, we kindly invite you to send us e-mails, and we will respond to you, if not today, in the coming days. But yes, so far, so good. These are all the questions. And yes, we'll stay on the line for a couple of more minutes. And if there will be no questions, we'll leave. Excuse me, Giovanni, still on the line. [indiscernible] facilities as of June 30 were EUR 280 million, comprising the Romanian facilities and the Spanish facilities. So close to EUR 300 million. On top of that, if you think of liquidity, you should also add basically the stream of funds that we continuously receive from Macquarie, which also act as boost of external liquidity unrelated to our EBITDA or to our current operation. Yes. And a question from Mark Chapman. What, if any, cash costs are associated with the change in structure in Belgium? I'm not sure I follow the question. But if you refer to us having to pay for this restructuring, the answer is no. So we were in an almost equal partnership with Citymesh in Belgium and rebalancing of few percentages between the 2 of us did not involve cash payments or any financial costs. Once again, I hope I understood the question, and I hope this is the answer. I mean, I hope this is what you're looking for. And the second question from Mark, how much of the ARPU decline in Spain is about lower prices per product versus about the changing mix of products? Well, I think it's both, but it's difficult for me to answer. Yes, I hope I'll cover this better during our next call or I will do my best to invite Varzaru Marius, the CEO of our Spanish operations to present this personally. Yes. So I think at this moment, we run out of questions. No new appearing. We thank you very much for joining us on our first half results call. And we look forward to speak to you on November 15 or around November 15 for the third quarter results. Thank you very much once again, and have a good rest of the summer. Bye-bye.