Digi Communications N.V. (DIGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to have you on our September 2022 results presentation. I will sit together with you through the slides, and I invite you to ask questions and to get a discussion thereafter. On the first page of our presentation, you see our Q3 results, group sales of EUR 385 million, a 20% increase year-on-year, and these results are presented on a continuous basis. So the comparison does not include the results of Hungarian operations, which were sold at the beginning of this year. RGU increased to 20 million units RGUs, which is a 15% increase year-on-year. This is the first month when we communicate EBITDA as a replacement measure for EBITDA excluding IFRS 16 treatment. So we generated EBITDA of EUR 107 million, which is a 10% increase over the last year figure in the same period Q3. Also, you only see to see it on the slide, but you see it in the financial report that we shared earlier this morning, we generated a net income figure of EUR 21 million in the quarter. And for the first 9 months, the net income amounted to EUR 441 million, of course, including the results of sale of our Hungarian operations. Just looking briefly at Romania, we posted 10% RGU growth. Overall, we grew 17% in the mobile segment, reaching 4.7 million users. We grew 12% in the broadband segment, reaching over 4 million users. And we are very happy to show you the 6% growth in the Pay TV segment, reaching a total of 5.4 million users as of September 2022. In Spain, we continued our growth with 39% growth in the customer base in the number of services that we offer. Mobile users grew by 29% to 3.6 million users from EUR 2.8 million a year ago. And in Internet, we surpassed 700,000 users, representing 90% growth year-on-year. Just following our description and narrowing down our numbers remain a generated sales of EUR 260 million in the quarter; Spain, almost EUR 128 million and Italy had sales of EUR 7 million, and Romania and Spain generated EBITDA of EUR 92 million and EUR 15 million, respectively. Just very fresh news. The Romanian national telecom regulator announced early today that the 5G auction was closed, was finished. As a result, we were awarded frequency blocks in 2,600 megahertz frequency band and in 3,400 megahertz frequency band, a total of 4 blocks in 2,600 and the total of backlogs in 34 radio companies. These frequencies will lay the ground for further 5G rollout of 5G development, but as well will strengthen and will grow our frequency portfolio, allowing us to provide even better services to our customers. So you see just in more detail, revenues, EBITDA and CapEx. So I'm moving away from EBITDA. And as you see, we generated sales of EUR 385 million, an increase from EUR 624 million a year ago, 90%, as I mentioned already. EBITDA, the EBITDA [indiscernible] amounted to other than 27 million, an increase from EUR 119 million a year ago. And EBITDA an increase to EUR 107 million to EUR 97 million a year ago. CapEx amounted to approximately EUR 405 million in the first 9 months of the year. Well, our expectation for 2022 is to generate CapEx of approximately EUR 550 million. Of course, most of it goes into the expansion of the Romanian networks in Spanish fixed networks. Moving on, we have RGUs split by segment and by country. And as you see, we are very happy to show consistent growth, robust growth across major segments, ATB in Romania, broadband, mobile telephony, mobile telephony, broadband in Spain, but as well as growth across all geographies, Italy included. So we have established a mature business in Romania, what we enjoy this commercial momentum and very good customer engagement. This is replicated to a certain extent in our Spanish market, also in Italy, and we have very happy about these results. We're also grateful to our customers and to our colleagues for helping us achieve this outcome. So on the last slide from the presentation. This is the financial snapshot. Total gross debt, EUR 1.260 billion. Cash and balance sheet is EUR 220 million and net debt of almost EUR 940 million. Net leverage, 2.3 times. And as you see, we cleared or maturities for 2022 at the beginning of the year when we made repayments of our financial instruments and also 2023 and 2024 are relatively clear of maturities with $33 million due next year and EUR 115 million due in 2024. So this is pretty much it. This is my short dive into the presentation. Maybe making a comment before we go into the Q&A, making a comment on the activity. For us, it was a continuation of our operations and our efforts that we did also at the beginning of the year, but also in the last few years. We are extremely happy that the continuous investments and high-quality networks and very well good services or high-quality services that we provide to our customers, continue to generate significant commercial momentum. As you see, we are growing at a pretty good double-digit pace across all our markets and in our major segments. This contributes to our top line growth, but also to our profitability. So we are extremely happy and we want to continue in the same key in the coming quarters. So the fact that we were able to secure additional spectrum the frequency auctions also in Romania is helping us to consolidate our position even further going on. And speaking of the new territories, Portugal and Belgium, we are still busy setting up our operations. We are still busy researching, and yes, we're making sure that sometime in the future, we will start opportunities also there. So pretty much this is description, and I do welcome your questions, kindly use the chat box for that.

First question comes from Nicolas Hirst from MLex Europe. Origin was [indiscernible] in Spain. The European Commission will probably make them give remedies. Would you be interested in taking remedies to expand in Spain. Well, I think we were discussing this question in our previous calls. So in a way, we are repeating ourselves, but the simple answer is we will look if remedies are provided. If remedies are imposed by the authorities, we'll certainly look at our options and make a decision at that moment. I don't think neither us nor even [indiscernible] that mission have any visibility at this moment. So we don't necessarily have a strategy around the remedies. This question comes many times and a lot, but this little we can say at this moment. But secondly, it's a developing story, and we will continue focusing on making sure that we do best for ourselves but also for our shareholders. The next question comes from J Heck. Can you please elaborate on the erosion of energy costs in Q3 and how it impacted your margins? So our exposure to energy prices is the biggest in Romania. And maybe some of you know that Romania had a protection regime up until 1st of September 2022, whereby residential users, but also most companies benefited from fixed price, free fixed energy prices. Now this regime was changed as of 1st of September. The prices are unregulated for businesses up until the end of the year. There is an expectation that these prices will become regulated again since January 1, 2023. In addition to that, there is a broad expectation that the volatility that we faced in the energy market since the beginning of the year, mostly, will be somehow managed and controlled by the state authorities or state actors so that both the population but also the B2B sector has less risk associated with this, let's say, energization energy prices. All in all, let's say, the worsening of the energy situation as of September 1, which already affected Q3 in comparison with Q2 and Q1. And certainly, this effect will be felt even more in Q4 because it will impact all 3 months of Q4 and not just 1 month as in Q3. We expect this to translate into a smaller margin, but in the low percentages area in the low percentages in the area. I move on. And there's a question from Peter [indiscernible] Could you please update us on the development of your mobile business in Portugal and Belgium? Yes. Thank you, Peter, for your question. I think in a way, we're just repeating the previous discussion in a way that Portugal is more advanced than Belgium. And in Portugal, we are busy at this moment, expanding both our fixed and mobile networks. In Belgium, we are still in the design and research phase, and we have not started building the networks as we speak. Now this is pretty much it. I'm sure this question will keep popping up in the coming questions. We don't have visibility on launching the services. And as of now, we will not comment on the date of launching the services. In any case, our intention is to do as well a launch as we can. A question from George Curtis. Can you give me an update on the auditor situation and when KPMG are expected to get audited results out by? Is there a risk of receiving another qualified report? Thank you, George, for your question. As we announced to the market last week, we do expect and we are pretty sure that the report will come out today, the report and the opinion are issued broadly as expected by us originally, meaning if I speak of the report, well, it's a more complex report, first of all. It's a long report with probably more in description of our activities of our operations. But if I were to stick to the numbers, there are, let's say, very small immaterial differences in revenues, EBITDA and total assets. So the numbers that we presented earlier are very much relevant for any analysis that you might have done up until now. As I mentioned, the opinion is expected and the airport is expected to arise later today. And this report will replace the report that we have published at the end of May. Sorry, I missed one point in your question. It was about the qualifications. So the report clears all the qualifications that we had in our previous report. Except for one. And the last qualification that remains in our final 2021 audit report is the one that is related to IFRS 16 for our Hungarian operations, the ones that we sold, but because our engagement with the Hungarian with our former Hungarian subsidiary was limited because we did not receive sufficient support from 4G Group from the buyers of Digi Hungary. There was no possibility to finalize the analysis of IFRS 16 treatment in Hungary, and that's why this one qualification demanded. But once again, we hope that in few hours time, we will publish this report on the website, and you will be able to appreciate it for yourself. Could you comment on the audited annual report for 2021 when they expect it to be issued. So thank you. I think I did answer. I hope it was sufficient. [indiscernible] CapEx we expect to record in 2022 and 2023 estimated. Yes. Maybe I spoke a bit too quickly, but while I was on the slide, I did mention that my expectation for 2022 is approximately in the area of EUR 550 million. Now the expectation for 2023 is probably in the same region for the reason that we do expect Romania to decline in [indiscernible] We do expect Spain to continue its activity. We do expect Romania to be somewhat replaced by Portugal and Belgium. And all in all, this effect should maintain our CapEx constant. A question from Alexander. Could you please explain how you will handle increasing energy wages costs, especially as ARPU down. Question 2, do you think the AR for 2021 will finally be published soon? So the only report question we answer today, as we replaced our previous report that we issued in May. And coming back to the first question, in a way, I could translate it into my language, it's a question about price increases. And the answer is we're not planning price increases. Certainly, we are just the same ability as everyone. We're living inflation, both personally on but also on the corporate level. So far, so good. We can handle it. And so basically, we do not intend to increase our prices in the immediate near future. Or just to come this question from a different angle. So we will certainly invest into alternative energy means. We will try to rationalize and cut costs even more if we didn't do it until now, as much as we can plan to maintain our offering and pricing level at the level where we are today. A question from Lorana. 2 questions. When do you consider to raise tariffs across the group? And the second question, what is the validity of the newly acquired spectrum usage rights in Romania? So for the first question, I think we just touched it in the previous discussion. For the second one, it's a pretty specific question. Usually, I believe the 2600 spectrum is varied throughout 2029. And I believe that the 3400 spectrum, it has actually a pretty long life. It's in the area of 20 years starting in 2025. But excuse me, I cannot give you a precise answer at this moment. But it's a pretty long way. So a question for Peter. What are your plans regarding 5G royalty in Romania? What will be the CapEx on infrastructure? Will use 2.6 gigahertz frequency for the 5G road? Well, thank you, these are good questions. I think just for you to understand our mobile philosophy in Romania, we work on several fronts also today, and we will continue this work in the future. We're currently expanding the coverage of our sites as much as we can. Secondly, we are improving the technology mix on every of our sites. And as you are aware, we acquired frequency spectrum also a year ago in 800-megahertz band and in 2,600 megahertz band. But at that time, it was 2,600 TDD, while today, it's 2,600 FDD. So there's a bit of difference there. And basically, what we are doing, so we are growing horizontally, if I can put it this way, increasing the number of towers and number of sites, but we are also growing vertically, if I can put it this way, increasing the number of technologies that are available on our sites or on most of our sites. Now together with this, there's also a self-dimension, the 4G, 5G dimension. And we will certainly continue rolling out the 5G network, along with improving the physical coverage, but also improving the technology on our website. So this was just a long introduction to explain to you how we think of all these. And second, speaking of money, we don't have a 5G budget as such. We will continue deploying actually 5G in urban areas, and we will continue also deploying it in rural areas in the second stage. For now, we will focus on 4G, 4G+ technologies in rural areas, because these are sufficient technologies going forward. And the last part of your question, whether we will use 2.6 gigahertz frequency for 5G, yes, the answer is yes. We will see exactly when. So, it's not clear to us when. Next question comes from Peter Jurich. What are your plans for capital allocation for 2023 and beyond. We have multiple markets and options. For example, Spain Remedy's Portugal network rollout, where do you want to spend a most? Seems like Romania is coming to the end of its CapEx cycle. The latest we think can start spending CapEx in Portugal, given the minimum coverage requirements you have to achieve there. Well, I think just broadly, the one question I cannot answer from this list is the Spanish remedies because we don't know what these are, what the cost is, what the opportunity is. So certainly, we will have a look at it when it comes. So this was an easy answer. But otherwise, the question is quite serious and difficult. But the answer is I think we treasure our markets well not necessarily equally, but we treasure all of them. And as Romania comes to the end of development, and we're significantly done it's not mostly done here. We will certainly, as I mentioned earlier, we will replace our capital allocation from Romania with Portugal and well, Spain, Portugal and Belgium. As I said earlier, we are already busy building the networks in Portugal, both fixed and mobile. And we're not concerned about coverage applications in that market. Now once again, I think we have started, I mean we have entered these 2 territories, Portugal and Belgium in a very serious manner, and we will invest in these markets, just like we do in Romania or Spain or Hungary previously when we used to operate there. So I don't think there is a priority difference between these, they will all come in due course. Question from George Curtis. Could you also give some guidance on CapEx for 2023? So I think I mentioned that it should be pretty much in EUR 550 million area. Balance sheet is elevated versus historical levels after the Hungarian sale. So presumably, we should expect this balance to reduce, as you find the expansion into new territories. And is year as 2023 free cash flow will be [indiscernible]. Well, CapEx, I did mention already, we do despite the pressures on EBITDA because of inflationary pressures in the energy and salary costs, we still expect EBITDA to increase in 2023 in comparison to 2022. But other than that, it's difficult for us to give a precise guidance on the free cash flow. So next question comes from Alvaro Mata, but when do you expect to keep spending CapEx well above your operating cash flow. Don't you see your current strategy of increasing your debt increases your credit risk? Only reason why your debt is not really high is due to the disposal of the Hungarian business. But this was a one-off. If you keep your current strategy for a few more years, I think you will have serious difficulties to refinance your debt. Well, thank you for the warning and the cautionary message. I don't know, I mean, it's a point of view, and I think it's a valuable point of view. We believe that as long as we have opportunities to expand and to develop that as long as we have funds to fund this opportunity, we should do so. Now our logical philosophy is that as a priority of capital allocation, we certainly have to service our debt first and then CapEx follows. So we will steer away from any problem or any credit risk issue going in the future and therefore our approach all the time. But once again, at this moment, we keep the opportunity to invest. And yes, enjoy this opportunity or we want to enjoy this opportunity. A question from Peter. Do you plan to increase the service prices in any of the countries that you operate in? So I mentioned it and just repeat, not at this moment. A question from Russell Waller. Can you please talk about the strategy for Portugal and Belgium to gain share and under the target share goes? What do you see the big funding requirement for both markets in terms of CapEx, how much it will cost to roll out mobile networks in both countries. How will you offer a fixed product in both markets? Well, thank you for the question. Basically, these are new markets for us. We believe that we have a model that works very well for us or works very well for us in Romania. They did work very well for us in Hungary, and it works very well for us in Spain as well. And somehow, we want to use this model, meaning high-quality networks, high-quality services, affordable prices, I wouldn't say low prices, but affordable prices for the users, and we want to apply this model both in Portugal and Belgium. I believe both markets offer an attractive niche from this perspective, and we hope that we can be successful in the future. Now in terms of target market shares, there is no necessarily these both Portugal and Belgium are 3 operator markets. And in Portugal, we used to be 5 bidders for the mobile frequencies. But as you are aware, very recently, Novak has announced its sale to Vodafone. So it's a market that is back to 4 operator market. And again, in this context, we clearly see a niche for us to clearly see an opportunity for a sense. What else? In terms of targeted market shares, I said there is no such figure but we aim at least for 10% market share, which should make us break even, and we hope we can achieve this in a reasonable time. And yes, we are also working on fixed products for both markets as we intend to provide the full package. At this moment, let's say, we don't have full visibility on how exactly the entire technology and the product mix will look like, but we are working on it. So a question from Lim Shales. Can you please provide any details on your plans to enter Portugal with regards to timing as well as intentions on possibly building our network. So just to repeat, I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey. We are working at this moment as we speak, in rolling out our mobile network in cooperation with Cellnex using additional Cellnex towers as our host tower operator. And we are also rolling the fixed networks in certain areas of Portugal. So we are busy working and we are visibly building the networks as we speak. Yes, a question from Francois. Do you intend to increase prices in Romania to offset current electricity costs? Even though we expect that prices will become regulated in January 2023? So not for the moment. Questions from Jean Rene. You have been postponing the release of your audited 2021 annual report several times. Can you explain us the reason? And when do you expect to release it? I have to stop for a second and explain and I will gladly do so. So as I mentioned earlier, we're expecting to release the report later today, and the report will replace the one that was published in May 2022. And I mentioned this a bit earlier, the report in terms of final results is very close or the differences are immaterial. Now we also did a good thing of clearing all the qualifications on our May 2022 report, except for one IFRS 16 as I mentioned earlier. Now on the delays, well, it's not a long discussion. But to explain ourselves, the base the following. As we communicated and as we import the market as long 1.5 years ago, well not exactly 1.5 years ago, but yes, I believe August last year, our relationship with our previous auditor, EY, was suddenly interrupted by their decision. And we had to find a new monitor ourselves for ourselves in a record time. And unfortunately, the Dutch audit market and Dutch company is very small because there are only 6 companies authorized to audit listed entities. And these are the big 4 companies, plus video and [indiscernible] So our list of possible auditors was very small and the ability of any auditory Netherlands to take new clients is delayed by the highly regulated market by the highly regulated sector. So as a result of this, while we announced to the market subsequently in September that we have changed the auditor and that we are progressing to engage KPMG, we were the onboarding procedure for us took a long time up until early 2022. And as a result, the audit started effectively in spring -- well, in late winter, early spring 2022. That made the audit report come later in comparison to previous years, and that made also the audit procedures to be performed at a later stage. So to summarize the answer, to answer briefly to the question, late appointment of the auditor, the onboarding procedures, the procedures related to the first year audit, which are different in comparison to subsequent year audit procedures were no different, which are more expensive in comparison to the subsequent year only procedures and the fact that we have complexities around the sale of Hungary around getting information from Hungary. This all made this process long, lengthy, and unfortunately, it made us and KPMG postpone the deadlines for a few times. We do hope that we do not repeat ourselves next year and that we have a much better and a much clearer financial communication calendar. All in all, in between, we were in time with our quarterly reports, as you can see and as you may appreciate. And as you see, the company has performed pretty well, pretty robust and pretty comparable terms with its past performance. So we certainly do not have any financial issues or issues of any other client. It was really late appointment of the auditor and the fact that the first year audit is, let's say, more complex than another year audit usually that made us be so late. We apologize for this. We are sorry for this. And again, we will work to make sure that we sort out the 2022 audit in better ways. But once again, thank you for the questions. Thank you for the opportunity to answer it also from this angle. So what is the EUR 62 million additional debt issued in Q3, major characteristics price, etc? We did not issue any new debt in Q3. We have we have a Spanish facility, which we announced to the market, which was an engine this summer. So in addition to the Spanish facility, we did not have any other. I hope it helps to [indiscernible] the question. So what is the CapEx expectation for 2023, '24, '25 in total? I think we have only visibility for 2023 for 2024 and '25, we will have to assess our markets or opportunities, our repayment maturities, as we were discussing previously, and we will address this question later on. There was a question from Elena Poshan, A question from Glad. Can you comment on EUR 45.5 million you will have to pay for the newly secured frequency rights in Romania? Is there more or less than what you had previously anticipated? Look, we did not make plans to pay 10, EUR 20 million, EUR 40 million or EUR 100 million. We wanted a certain spectrum, and we got that spectrum. I think this is not asked by you, but I'd say that overall, the prices of the Romanian auction were significantly high, they were pretty high, they were high, we believe, for the Romanian market, and they were high in comparison with other frequency auctions that we attended in Europe or are taking place elsewhere in Europe. But yes, we are, let's say, happy with what we got. Maybe a small addition to this. Out of EUR 45 million, EUR 13 million have to be paid this year, while the remaining is deferred over the next years. So cash flow-wise, it is not an intensive for the exercise. Yes. I'll move on. The question from Peter Jurich. Can you remind us what your current infrastructure mix is in Spain? How much mobile is on versus MVNO network? And how much fixed is owned versus wholesale? Well in Spain, we are 100% MVNO operator. We have 0 mobile network that is our own, except for the core network and other network elements that we have to run alongside Telefonica's network. But all of the radio network elongs to Telefonica. And as I mentioned many times on our previous calls, we are very happy with this cooperation because we believe Telefonica has and provides a very good technology and very good service to us. In terms of the fixed network, it's a difficult question to answer because we are building our own fixed networks in certain areas of Spain in areas where we believe we should expect better traction from our customers. But we also cooperate with Telefonica. And as you appreciate, the size of Telefonica's network to our network is incrementally bigger. So basically, Spain is Telefonica market, and we are using more of Telefonica's infrastructures than [indiscernible] A question from Jean [indiscernible] you expect to incur external financing for the build-out of the Belgian JV and what kind of financing structures have you considered so far? Yes, medium and long term, we are open to financing solutions. And we are pretty much open to any solutions, be it classical debt be it, I don't know, some sort of infrastructure sale and so on, I suppose. So it's an open-ended question. We're open to, and we will be looking for financing solutions, but that is it for now. Next question also comes from [indiscernible] What are you planning to do with the more than EUR 300 million on the balance sheet? Well, these funds will be available for CapEx for expansion, possibly for debt repayment. Question from Andrew. Would it be possible to provide further clarity on the likely path of CapEx in the new markets? On the Q2 call, it sounded like you will spend low hundreds of millions over a couple of years in each market. Does this mean EUR 100 million in Portugal and 50% of EUR 100 million in Belgium? Will you be able to offset increases here with reduced CapEx in Romania and Spain, such as the CapEx envelope remains at EUR 400 million? Well, thank you very much. Andrew, you got it very well. This is the logic behind my statement in Q2. And yes, you pretty much got the picture and the idea. And by the way, it's correct that the expectation is to use 100% of our funds for Portugal and to use 50% of our own funds for Belgium. But in both markets, we will use some sort of external debt financing one way or another. So it will not translate as if we are spending 100% of our own money in each of these markets, let's say, for the full project line. Now the only comment to your question is that most likely, it will not be 100, it will be over 100 still it's in the low hundreds of millions. I mean I'd rather not provide this guidance at this moment. But you got it right. Thank you. A question from Lena Foshan. Any plans on how you will deal with the 2021 maturities, which are trading at 90? Could the cash be used to buy back some of the debt like competitors are doing by the -- coming Ireland or do a tender. We have this on our mind. We have not made a decision. And if we do, we will come back to the market. It's a serious question, and let's say, we are still considering this as a possibility, but no decision. So next set comes from George Curtis. How did the spectrum costs in Romania compare with your expectations? Well, look, George, as we see the result of the auction, there was little competition in the auction, meaning there was no external bidding. In my understanding, the 3 operators that joined the auction, Orange, Vodafone and us pretty much got all the spectrum that they wanted, and they got it at the starting price. So it's not so much the competition between the operators. But I think that the authorities have set the price high. This also may explain the fact that not all of the spectrum was sold. Question from Francois Peter. When is the payment due for 5G auction in Romania and installments? So as I mentioned, this year, EUR 13 million, and the rest will be deferred in installments for the next years. But sorry, I don't have the precise brand of this information. A question from Peter Jurich. How do you evaluate capital spending? You say you look at all markets, but presumably, these markets compete for capital allocation and then use some metrics to make decisions? Do you look at IRR, payback time, etc. What financial metrics do you look at to make a decision to spend more capital in one market as opposed to another? I'm not sure we have such, let's say, detailed framework. The idea is that we are looking for market segments, niches that allow us to be profitable on a long-term basis. It allow us to generate 30% to 40% EBITDA margins and that allows us to have a payback, but this does not have to come in the first 2 years of the project. Now saying these are now are not very helpful. But historically, we understood opportunities with the payback of 3, 4, 5 years, and we were pretty happy with these opportunities. I think if you look at our history, the way we developed, we mostly like to replicate our historical operations also in the new markets, and that's how we more or less think. Yes, a question from Lat Podent. Could you please comment on the rather volatile PP or plant and equipment depreciation expense over the last 3 quarters? Sorry, I personally would not be able, but maybe we can just address this very specific question offline, and we'll try to be helpful in the coming days. This was it. It's almost 5 o'clock in Romania. We'll wait for a few moments. And if there are more questions we'll address. If not, we will cross the line. There's a question also from [indiscernible] I'd like to understand you're rolling out 5G in Romania, up to [indiscernible] But you just mentioned you are planning to reduce CapEx in Romania. I think yes, we can clarify it. The CapEx reduction in Romania comes primarily from the fixed network area because our coverage has been improved significantly over the last few years, and we do expect the effort in this area to decrease. Having said this, we will still continue rolling out the mobile networks as I was explaining earlier on the call, horizontal vertically technology-wise. And for this reason, we do expect normal CapEx to continue to persist in the next 2 to 3 years. I think the 2 answers do not compete each other. Okay. Well, thank you. It was pretty intensive for me to read the questions. I hope it was clear enough, and I hope you could follow the questions and my answers. And once again, thank you. It was a pleasure to discuss these outstanding results. We hope to follow up in a few hours time with our 2021 audit report. And in the meantime, I wish you all the best, and we speak probably in mid-February, discussing the Q4 results. Thank you, and speak to you all soon. Bye-bye.