Digi Communications N.V. (DIGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Digi Communications N.V. Investors 2023 Preliminary Financial Results Presentation. A copy of the corresponding report is posted in the Investor Relations section on Digi's website at digi-communications.ro. The conference is being recorded today, and a replay will be available shortly after. [Operator Instructions] Before we can start, you are advised that certain statements in this conference call are forward-looking and therefore subject to material risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from those stated or implied by such forward-looking statements due to the risks and uncertainties associated with Digi Communications N.V., which include, amongst others, various risks related to our business, risks related to regulatory matters and litigation, risks related to investments in emerging markets, risk related to our financial position as well as risks related to the notes and the related guarantee. I would like to introduce the speakers for today's call, Mr. Serghei Bulgac, the CEO of Digi Communications N.V.; and Mr. Dan Ionita, the company's CFO. We may now begin the call.

Thank you very much, Mariana. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our 2023 full year results call -- full year preliminary results, but I hope we will have an extensive discussion and we'll try to explain in as much as detail as we can everything we did. In a nutshell, 2023 was one of the best years for Digi in terms of growth and in terms of results. Revenues were up 13% to EUR 1.7 billion, RGUs increased 15% on a group level to almost 24 million units and EBITDA was 19% higher at EUR 509 million. I mean in a continuous manner, these great results, this success is due to outstanding performance of our Spanish operations, but also a very strong and very robust performance in Romania. Just commenting on a few key points related to our achievements in 2023. We are proud to be able to continue sustained growth across our markets, primarily Romania, not last because we are a very well-established, long-term established and mature business here. Despite this, we continue our growth, also thanks and help -- and with the help of Spain, which has had outstanding results in 2023. Broadband users, just as an idea, grew 63% by the end of the year in comparison to the numbers from a year ago. Mobile users have increased 23% in Spain and 18% in Romania. We continued expanding our network in 2023. In Romania, we'll be concentrating more on the mobile -- on the improvement in our mobile network, rolling out the equipment to service the new frequencies that we acquired in the last years. In Spain, we continued significant efforts to grow our fixed infrastructure, reaching -- exceeding at this -- or reaching this point approximately 8.7 million homes passed, which is an amazing achievement of our Spanish products. In fact, as of today, they have almost equaled the result of Romania, which is roughly 9 million homes passed. And in Portugal and in Belgium, we are preparing to start operations, to start up sales this year and we are grateful to our colleagues for the continuously sustained work that they perform in these markets. So last week, the European Commission has approved the merger -- has finally approved the merger between Orange and MásMóvil in Spain. The approval is conditional on a commitments package offered by the merging companies. And basically, as part of these commitments, Digi, as the remedy taker, benefits from 60 megahertz of radio frequency spectrum and an optional national roaming agreement which we can choose, we can decide to use or not. And just to explain this remark, we have signed already an agreement with Orange and MásMóvil for national roaming. We are not obliged to implement it. We have the freedom and ability to negotiate similar agreements with other players in the market. And depending on the best outcome, we are able to choose that agreement. And finally, the merger, I think, is still pending approval from the Spanish authorities which, in my understanding, all parties are busy working on. So normally, we expect to share further news in the coming weeks about this story. And moving on, so I'll come back to the numbers. So all in all, 13% growth in 2023 in comparison to 2022, of course, led by Spain, 28% growth, sales reaching 640 -- exceeding EUR 640 million. Romania also grew by 5%, reaching [ EUR 1.022 billion ]. This is the year where we surpass the EUR 1 billion mark. Last year, we were slightly below. EBITDA for the group [ EUR 509 million ] helped by Romania, almost EUR 400 million in EBITDA and significant improvement in Spain to EUR 115 million or almost EUR 116 million. And of course, the underlying basis for this success is the growth in the number of users, the number of people that trust our services who we are very grateful to. And in Romania, we reached almost 17 million RGUs; in Spain, almost 6.5 million RGUs; and in Italy, we exceeded 400,000 RGUs as of the last year. Moving on, you see basically our results in a bit more detail. So in the fourth quarter, we generated sales of EUR 486 million, 20% more in comparison to EUR 400 million -- excuse me, 14% more in comparison to the last quarter of 2022 when the results were EUR 400 million. We generated EUR 162 million of EBITDA in the last quarter. Now this number includes IFRS 16 numbers. And we had a total CapEx -- sorry, in the quarter, CapEx amounted to EUR 160 million and the total CapEx for the year amounted to EUR 730 million. Now if you follow the page and look in the right bottom corner, you will see that our CapEx has, in our view, in the organization factor of EUR 110 million without which CapEx on a continuous basis, on a comparable basis would have been EUR 620 million in 2023. So I would compare that EUR 160 million that we had in 2022 to EUR 620 million and the extra EUR 110 million refer to purchase of mobile equipment, which was financed with ECA type of facilities and the payments for this CapEx was accelerated unlike in the previous years. So for this reason, we think of our CapEx in 2 ways, total CapEx, EUR 770 million; normalized CapEx, EUR 620 million. Moving on, just a few numbers on customers. Basically, mobile segment is the largest segment. It's also the fastest-growing segment with 20% increase. We almost reached 11 million RGUs in -- across the 3 markets where we operate, Romania, Spain and Italy. Broadband also grew by 18%, reaching almost 6 million RGUs, primarily in Romania and Spain. Pay-TV, only Romania, amounted to 5.7 million RGUs, a very strong and, I repeat, robust performance for us. And just on the right-hand side, Romania reached almost 17 million RGUs and Spain almost 6.5 million, as we mentioned a bit early. We continue to be the leader in portability and so last year, in Romania, we had -- we benefited from 866,000, almost 67,000 basically portability customers in Romania and portability in Spain exceeded 955,000 users. Net profitability in Spain amounted to 600 -- to over 600,000 users. So we are very grateful to our customers, both existing and the new ones, for choosing our services but also we're grateful to our colleagues for performing outstanding efforts to convince new customers and to increase the customer base. And the next slide shows our financial position. It's a little changed from our previous quarters. So net leverage is 2.5x with total net debt amounting to EUR 1.27 billion. We do not have too many scheduled payments, repayments this year, just a bit over EUR 100 million for 2024. Next year, we have total payments of EUR 610 million, of which EUR 450 million represents a bond tranche, basically -- bond tranche, which is due in February 2025. Now the intention on our side is certainly not to wait until the very last moment. But we intend to repay this bond tranche basically in the last quarter of this year. So we expect our financial payments to exceed EUR 500 million this year as we will repay just before the maturity the bonds, the bonds that become due next year. And I think with this, we are almost done and maybe very few words on 2024 prospects. In a few words, what we wish from this year is, I think, to capitalize on the outstanding achievements that we had so far, including in 2023 and just be able to continue with the same trends in all our markets. So this is a very, very brief summary. And going into detail, we'll certainly continue expanding our mobile networks in Romania and strengthen our presence in the fixed markets. We would like to continue gaining more or less the same number of customers, if possible. We want to continue growing in Spain, and we want to continue expanding our fixed network just like we did in the last few years, more or less with the same speed if the market allows, if the situation allows. We're also -- we will embrace the new opportunities that we have offered in the last weeks by the merger between Orange and MásMóvil by the effort of the European Commission and the Spanish authorities. And we certainly hope that with these new assets and new position, we will be able to both strengthen our presence in the market, but also provide even better services to our customers. And certainly, the focus continues to be to launch new services in both Portugal and Belgium in 2024. So this is just -- apology, as usually, I asked you through the presentation. These are the key items, the key elements of our operations and our progress in 2023. This is a very brief outlook for 2024. And for now, the floor is yours. And I and Dan will be happy to answer all your questions. Thank you very much.

Just maybe half a minute for questions to start showing up, and we will start this -- we'll start the discussion. So thank you very much. We have questions. The first question comes from [ Laura Ponce ]. How do you intend to refinance the 2025 bond maturity and the remaining EUR 140 million maturities for 2024 and EUR 160 million for 2025? Have you already secured the financing or commitments? So once again -- well, sorry, I connect to the previous calls and the previous discussions. And basically, most of the funds for 2024 intended payments are available as we have cash on balance sheet of approximately EUR 230 million as of the beginning of the year. And we have also undrawn facilities of EUR 250 million, which are fully available to us. In addition to this, depending on the evolution during the year, we may borrow additional amounts but in -- let's say, from an overall perspective in not so significant amount. I mean we don't see that we need extra facilities in excess of EUR 150 million to EUR 200 million. So that is the requirement for 2024. For 2025, I think it's early on to discuss it now, but once again, looking at our financial profile, EBITDA revenue growth, I think the EUR 160 million number that you mentioned is not significant. Okay. So I hope it's helpful, and I will go forward. But once again, we can come back to this question as many times as we need because I think it's really important. A question from [indiscernible]. You mentioned in the last conference call that the company is looking to grow organically and not through acquisitions. But in Portugal, with NOWO in a sale position with several assets, including the spectrum acquired in the same 5G auction, wouldn't this be a good opportunity for Digi? So this is the first question, and I'll address this first. So to my knowledge -- to our knowledge, NOWO was sold in Portugal to Vodafone and there is an ongoing process basically for finalizing the transaction and closing the transaction. So the question, while strategically relevant, technically is -- basically addresses an impossible situation. The company has been sold and it's pending closing, it's waiting for the closing of the transaction. We'll see how it goes. There is, again, to our knowledge an ongoing process between the buyer, Vodafone, and the Competition Authority, and we will monitor and just to see how it goes. The next question also from [indiscernible]. What is the forecast for the start of commercial operation in Portugal? And will the commercial offer on fixed line start at the same time as the mobile operation? Yes. So this is a difficult one. Last year, we mentioned in various occasions that we will launch the services this year, which we will do. However, I will abstain to comment exactly on the time of launch. Please be patient. Please bear with us. We are -- our colleagues are very busy to start the operations as soon as we can. But I think we will stop commenting on exact launch date as it's not helpful, and it is quite difficult to predict. On the second part of this question, whether we will offer fixed and mobile services at the same time. Yes, as much as we can, we will do so. A question from Piotr Raciborski. What level of CapEx, do you expect to record in 2024? So thank you very much, Piotr, for the question. I think 2023, and I'll come back to it, was -- we had a large CapEx. So as I mentioned earlier [ EUR 770 million ]. Our expectation for 2024 is in the area of EUR 650 million. So we have also a couple of questions from Cosmin Patruti. When do you expect to start operations in Portugal and Belgium? So -- excuse me, sorry, this is repeat and just to say the same, both Portugal and Belgium, we'll start in 2024, but we will not comment on the exact date. How many RGUs and what ARPUs do you expect for Portugal and Belgium in the first year? And how many do you want to add per year in the following years? Unfortunately, this is very detailed. It is difficult to -- we'll see how the market evolves. Also, the exact answer depends on exactly when we start and frankly, it's almost impossible to answer. On top of it, we do not really provide guidance. So there's no answer to this question. Do you have an RGU target for 2024? Can you please break it down by the country. Well, I'm sorry to not be helpful here as well. We do not provide guidance. But as I mentioned during the presentation, we hope to continue the efforts and the growth results that we achieved in 2023. Of course, with certain variations, especially given that Romania, in the fixed operations, we are already very mature with both the market and us and our acquisition is pretty strong. So we do expect further declines in this -- further declines in growth in this area. Do you think we will continue to see a decrease in ARPU in 2024 as well? Well, if you look at our ARPU numbers, it is continuous. It's EUR 5.8 at the group level. We do not forecast an increase. We do not forecast a decrease. And basically, our policy is to maintain our prices. And certainly, there will be a variation in the prices, but it will come from the new customers taking new packages. And it may be that there will be somewhat downward pressure on the ARPU, again, if more newer customers take smaller packages or less expensive packages. So only from this point of view. Other than that, we certainly are not decreasing the prices. And we're also not planning to increase the prices in the coming future. I hope this is helpful. So the next question is, how will the Spanish spectrum purchase from December affect the cost of MVNO agreements? And if we keep the same number of RGUs and ARPU in 2024 as in 2023, after this acquisition, by how much the cost decrease? I think the question is a bit too specific, and again, may be less relevant in the context of 2024. Just to correct a few things. We did not acquire any spectrum in December. And as I mentioned during the presentation, the commission has announced only last week that it has approved the merger between Orange and MásMóvil and the commitments are part of this approval. Now maybe to give a bit more background, the transaction is still pending, pending the final approval of the Spanish authorities, which is expected to come in the near future. Once it is complete, there will be a preparatory phase, and we do not expect -- we cannot benefit from the frequency on -- from the frequencies during this year, just because if successful, the joint venture between Orange and MásMóvil will need time to release the frequencies as today they are engaged for their operations. So in the context of 2024, this is probably a less relevant question and a bit too specific to detail. Now strategically, overall, we will certainly -- having new frequencies will certainly help us develop our own network and in conjunction with roaming agreement that we expect to conclude with 1 of the existing operators from the market. We [indiscernible] and estimate that our operations will be improved. But again, it's something for the future not for 2024. What is your goal in terms of debt? So today, we have a leverage ratio of 2.5x. We do not intend and we do not expect this ratio to change significantly over the coming -- in the coming quarters. And on the long term, we intend to decrease the leverage. Do you want to refinance your 2025 once this year? So this was addressed. Thank you. And -- excuse me, the next question is, according to my calculations, depreciation and amortization in Q2 -- in Q4 2023 was approximately EUR 94 million, lower than in the other quarters. What is the reason for this? Apology, this is a bit too detailed. We do not have the numbers available to us at this moment. We will not be able to answer this question now. So I move on. A question from Mollie Witcombe. Would you be able to give us a little more detail on the Romanian market, specifically on why we saw softer RGUs in the last quarter? I think -- so from our point of view, we had a pretty good last quarter, very much in line with our expectations and very much in line with the performance in during the year. So I'm not sure I do understand the question, but maybe I'm missing the point here, sorry. A question from Piotr Raciborski. When do you plan to launch your service in Portugal and Belgium? So it's a repeat. 2024. [indiscernible]. Which services are you expecting to launch in Belgium in 2024? So similar to Portugal, the intention is to start with both the mobile and fixed services. A question from [indiscernible]. I would like to ask if you can specify when this year you will launch operations in Belgium. And did you already select the mobile network vendor for Belgium? So our last question to this question, as we said earlier, we will not comment on the exact launch dates. In terms of the partner, yes, as we announced in late 2023, we did sign -- so basically the joint venture between us and Citymesh Mobile has signed the national roaming agreement with Proximus Belgium, and we will launch this year services on the Proximus network. A question from [indiscernible]. What is your strategy regarding rollout of your own fiber network in Belgium? Well, I think the answer is basically written up in the question. It's our rollout of the fiber network in Belgium. We basically do it with our effort, and we are developing a brand new network. So one more question from [indiscernible]. Additionally, can you give some more details on your plans for Belgium on the fixed network since you are testing fiber rollout in Brussels? Well, that's right. Brussels is the first place where we started building out the network. But other areas of Belgium will follow. It's really just the beginning and I certainly hope it's helpful. I mean we will not limit ourselves to Brussels. We'll not limit ourselves to any geographical area. We will -- we intend and we will build and develop the networks in the entire country. A question from [indiscernible]. Regarding the Italian market, what's your view on your operation there in the long run? Well, thank you for the question. Our performance is positive there. We grow revenues, the number of users. It's true that in comparison to the -- our core markets, to our established markets, both Romania and Spain, the growth that we have in Italy is marginal. We will certainly look for options to enhance that growth. We also are looking for ways to eventually go into fixed -- into building fixed networks in Italy so that the portfolio of services is complete for us there. As a matter of fact, we started doing so last year and the first city, but not the last and certainly not the only, is Torino. So we are -- we will also build and develop a network in Italy as well. I think -- so we have -- we just -- I think we're coming back to [ Laura Ponce's ] first question about the repayments and about the bond maturity of EUR 450 million that comes due in February 2025. And I'll just try to explain it once again. We will address the maturity in the fourth quarter of this year. So we will certainly pay out this debt this year. And to pay out this debt, we will use the existing cash, the available undrawn facilities and we may need relatively small extra facilities of approximately EUR 150 million to EUR 200 million to address this maturity. So the repayment will take place this year, and we are on track to prepare ourselves to this payment. A question from Nora Nagy. What's your expectation for energy costs in 2024? I will ask colleague, Dan, to have a look and I'll come back to this question a bit later. What is your CapEx outlook for 2024? I think we mentioned this a little earlier. So we do expect CapEx to amount to EUR 650 million. When will the dividend be announced after 2023 results? Well, thank you for the question. As usual, we will announce the dividend during the general meeting of shareholders, which we have not set yet, but we broadly expect to hold in June this year. And -- sorry. And for that, the announcement will be made earlier. It -- the announcement will be made in the same time when we release the full year 2023 results, so around April 30. Do you consider a partial sale of your fiber infrastructure in Spain? Yes. Thank you very much for the question. It's an important one. Yes. I mean just very, very simply put, yes. And in what way? I think we -- this is a discussion that we had on various occasions during our previous investor calls, and we mentioned that the industry, most of our competitors have done various asset sale transactions and we have not had the opportunity to do so, so far, but we are open to such an opportunity. There's little for us to comment at this moment, but we are interested to do so once we are close to possible potential transaction. We can certainly announce this to the market, but not at this moment. And if we are successful, we will certainly want to delever our financial profile and we will certainly want to use the extra funds that are available to us from such an operation for further CapEx and expansion. So yes, once again, very briefly, this is something that we are open and keen to do. But I think this is as much as we can comment at this moment. A question from Alex Lushnikov. What is the long-term CapEx expected to be? What is the -- well, it's a difficult one. So we did compute our CapEx for 2023. We did announce our expectation for 2024. Now '25, '26, '27, it's really up to our success in our existing markets, but also it's even more up to our success in our new markets, and it's pretty early to comment on. Now, in our view, we are a growth operator. We are a telecom operator, but we are a growth operator and, if not all, most significant part of our CapEx is both growth driven and discretionary. And this is, I think, a big advantage of our model which gives us both flexibility and agility to choose targets and to choose directions and markets where to grow. So we certainly cannot comment on levels and numbers, but we can say that we are -- this is one of our key strengths, ability to grow, which is certainly directly linked to ability to do CapEx and this is something we will preserve in the future as well -- where we hope to be able to preserve in the future as well. So the next question is what is the expected spend on spectrum in Spain? We did announce -- so last year, when we had our -- when we signed our agreements with Orange and MásMóvil, which we are finally approved by the commission in February as we were discussing. We did announce that the spectrum costs EUR 120 million, of which EUR 20 million are conditional on certain criteria. And this amount will be paid in installments over the next years. When do you expect to get cash in for the Spain fiber sale? It's early on. We don't have a fiber sale in place now. As soon as -- if we are successful to conclude such a transaction, we certainly announced the market, and we'll certainly announce the market on further details. Can you please mention any covenants you had on your notes or other debt. If you refer to leverage, from my memory, I think we have [ 425 ] leverage net on the notes. Yes. I hope it's helpful. Can you please mention -- sorry, excuse me I'm repeating the same question. What is the level of leverage that you're comfortable with? Well, we would certainly prefer to be between 1 and 2x area, we are comfortable to be between 2 and 3x area and we are not comfortable to be above 3x. Regarding the 2025 notes, am I understanding correctly that you would like to repay these notes with cash plus undrawn facilities? And then, we'll not come back to the higher market [indiscernible] in notes. Yes, I think it's a good interpretation of what we said at this moment so far, but never say never. We are not so keen to come back to the bond market during 2024. Again, we -- there's nothing wrong with the market. We just believe that the rates are still high. And -- but if the situation changes, we'll certainly reconsider that. So there's a question from [ log-in ]. Not sure if this is how you asked the question on Zoom. Well, look, we are able to read your question. This is the way. Thank you very much. Can you provide some details -- question from Vlad Podea. Can you provide some details on the relatively low, as compared to previous quarters, net finance costs in the fourth quarter 2023, EUR 9 million versus EUR 26 million in the third quarter and EUR 20 million in the second quarter. So I will park this question for Dan, and maybe we'll come back to this before the end of the call. A question from Jean-René Meduri. What do you expect in terms of CapEx for 2024? Do you plan to refinance 2025 notes with new bonds? So it's a repeat -- CapEx, approximately EUR 650 million. And if we are refinancing the 2025 notes with new bonds, not at this moment. At this moment, we want to refinance the 2025 notes with our own existing cash undrawn facilities and if necessary, new facilities. A question -- so the question from [ log-in ]. How much FCF will Portugal and Belgium burn in 2024? And -- yes. So yes, it's -- I'm not sure if I have the numbers available because -- and it's a bit more complex. So Portugal has certainly running costs like the negative EBITDA, and this EBITDA for 2023 amounted for approximately EUR 8 million. But in addition to that, we also have CapEx. So if you say -- if you refer to cash burn, you certainly refer to both numbers. Now the CapEx spend as an order of magnitude is in the area of EUR 100 million. So I hope this -- EUR 100 million per year. I hope this is helpful. For Belgium, it is -- we can't share the numbers at this moment. And certainly, the numbers are lower just for the simple reason that Belgium is younger from the 2 new operations that we have this moment. And in addition to that, the burden of running Belgium is shared between us and our partners, Citymesh Mobile over there. But sorry, it's difficult for me to give more precise numbers. And a second question from [ log-in ]. Is there any progress with the national roaming deal in Portugal? No, so far, we don't have any roaming offers or possibilities in Portugal that could allow us to offer services sooner. So we fully rely on building out and launching our own network. A question from Russell Waller. Will you offer a fixed product in Portugal on a national basis? Or just where you have rolled out? Well, its both, we'll certainly offer it initially when we roll out and we'll certainly continue rolling out the networks so that we have full national coverage at a certain point in time. Beyond that, it's difficult to provide more precise guidance, but the intention is to cover the entire territory of Portugal. And the question is, if we signed a national fixed [indiscernible]. And the answer is no. At this moment, we don't have any national -- sorry, excuse me, we do have a national fixed cost [indiscernible], excuse me, I have to correct myself. And it comes in the context of NOWO-Vodafone merger, the one that we mentioned during the presentation. However, because the merger is under review, and because the commitments of Vodafone and our deal have to be scrutinized by the Competition Authority, and the scrutiny is under review, we don't have any further information at this moment. And apology, I was answering this question wrongly because it's not yet final. Yes, thank you. And sorry, just a correction here. And to my memory, it's not a national wholesale deal. It's a deal that is involved -- that basically covers the NOWO network areas. Yes. Sorry, just to be complete and precise, yes. How does -- a question from Mark Chapman. How does the EUR 650 million 2024 CapEx relate to the EUR 110 million extra CapEx spend in 2023? Could there be further additional CapEx in 2024? Or is the pull forward in 2023 from the later years? We certainly have the pull forward factor in every year because large suppliers of equipment provide us vendor financing solutions ranging up to 3 years usually. So in 2024, we will pay also supplies that were taking place in 2022. In terms of the initial question, the EUR 650 million figure is comparable to EUR 730 million figure. So we expect to spend somewhat less this year in comparison to the last year. And yes, so EUR 650 million is on the same basis as 730 million. I hope it's helpful. So one more question from [ log-in ]. Would you consider bringing in new financial partners to help fund Portugal and Belgium -- or Belgium? Look, we are, let's say, always open to opportunities. I think we had a question earlier from Nora about a possible asset sale in Spain. Now we are pretty open to cooperations across all our markets. It just has to make sense to both us and our possible partners. But these cooperations can take any form, including asset sale or any other. So we're certainly open to grow. So we are certainly open to partner with people who may have the same motivations or expectations as we do. A question from [indiscernible]. How did the acquisition of edpnet impact your short-term strategy in Belgium? So edpnet is not acquired by the joint venture between Digi and Citymesh. edpnet is acquired by Citymesh, and so basically we, Digi, we cannot comment on this acquisition. But we are so -- doesn't really affect us and our operations. It is our colleagues that are involved with this transaction. So yes, a question from [indiscernible]. Proximus in Belgium said last week it is talking to other operators on sharing fiber investments, but not with Digi. Are you open to fiber investment sharing? Well, certainly, yes. I think in line with questions -- with earlier questions from above, we are open to any cooperation or any sharing. I think the European competitive landscape is just huge, not only for us, but in general, and I think there's room for everyone and you can't have only one successful operator, whoever that may be. And to be successful -- I mean to cooperate, certainly helps for success certainly. So a question from [ Emilie ]. Do you start offering fixed Internet services in Italy in 2024? As a matter of fact, we started offering net services at the end of 2023. The results are just in the very initial phase -- sorry, we are in the very early stage, and that's why we did not comment or we omitted to comment. But we already started at the end of 2023. So a question from Russell Waller. What are the terms of the optional MVNO with Orange compared with -- compared to MVNO with Telefonica? Do you think your MVNO costs will go down in Spain? Is it because of the remedy or because of negotiating better terms with either Telefonica or Vodafone? Yes. It's a complex question. Just maybe a small correction. So indeed, we have an MVNO contract with Telefonica today, and we have a roaming agreement with Orange. They're not entirely comparable, but being slightly different types of contracts and different types of arrangements. Of course, you may try to compare them. But again, these are slightly different things. Now just to comment broadly here, we'll not go into details and we'll not make comparisons. What is important to say is that we already have an MVNO agreement in place with Telefonica, which is valid until -- and will not end September 2026. We have already an agreement with Orange, which we can choose to -- for Orange and MásMóvil, sorry, which we can choose to pursue or not. And we have also an option to negotiate a similar agreement with Telefonica or Vodafone Zegona and we will do our best to negotiate an agreement with any of them. So this is our position. And I think this is the only thing we can say. The Spanish market is very competitive. Now after Orange-MásMóvil consolidation, the market has 3 strong, very strong players, and we'll try to do our best in finding the best terms and conditions that the market allows. So we are coming back to [ Laura ]. Yes, excuse me. So I'm trying to read the question, just trying to understand it. So I'll read it out loud anyway. But how do you refinance the EUR 450 million bond? You mentioned you have enough cash and credit lines for the EUR 150 million this year -- for EUR 140 million this year and EUR 160 million in 2025, which are on top of EUR 450 million bond. But how do you refinance the bond. So basically, just trying to maybe address this broadly. We have healthy cash -- we have cash on balance sheet as of the beginning of this year, approximately EUR 230 million. We have undrawn facilities of EUR 250 million as of today, which all in all, make up EUR 480 million. To meet all of -- I mean, this is to meet all our financial needs for this year and to repay the EUR 450 million installment of the bonds this year and not next year. On top of this EUR 480 million that are available to us, we would need to borrow an extra of approximately EUR 150 million to EUR 200 million in cash. Now just coming back to -- coming to show the full picture or to discuss the full picture, this extra EUR 150 million to EUR 200 million would come theoretically either from bank financing or from an asset sale transaction. We are open to do both and we are keen to do both. I think on the next call, which will take place in May discussing the first quarter results, we'll certainly share with you the final outcome of our decision, on what exactly we are doing. However, in our view, we are, let's say, pretty much advanced in this exercise. And we are very comfortable that it will be completed in early on this year, early on, meaning middle of the year. So I do hope that this picture responds to your questions and addresses the needs for this year, including the repayment of the loans. Now coming -- and I did not address the needs for next year. Again, depending on our ability to sell assets this year or our ability to finance, we will have to consider what extra facilities, if needed at all, we'll need next year, but that's a discussion for probably the first quarter call, as I mentioned in May. Yes, I do [indiscernible] (00:59:14). A question from [ Joanna ]. Any update on national roaming agreement in Portugal? So no national roaming agreements in Portugal, no. A second question from [ Joanna ]. What is the current coverage, mobile and fixed, in Portugal? Sorry -- so it is difficult for us to comment. We will provide these numbers when we launch -- so closer to launch later this year. But we are busy developing and building the networks. We will not disclose these numbers at this moment. Questions from [ Emil ]. Will you keep the policy of granting an increasing dividend this year and possibly in the following years? I hope so. Yes, I hope so. Question from [ Joanna ]. Do you confirm the launch of TV services in Spain? Yes, our colleagues in Spain are working on a TV solution, and we are certainly keen and interested to launch TV services in Spain as well. Pay-TV is an important product also in the Spanish market, and we have to have it. A question from [indiscernible]. Will you reduce competitive intensity in Spain given sale of fixed assets? Or maintain some competitive pricing in own network areas in Spain? Well, if we are successful in selling any assets in Spain, we will change nothing from our, let's say -- in our operations on a day-to-day basis and in our overall competitive and strategic position. So if we are successful to sell assets in Spain, we certainly do not intend -- we do not intend to change anything in the way we do things today. But thank you for the question. Alex Lushnikov. Is EUR 120 million Spain spectrum spend included in CapEx? Yes it is. However, as I mentioned -- so if finally approved by the Spanish authorities in the near future, the transaction will become effective. When it will become -- after it becomes effective, the transaction is expected to offer spectrum to us during 2025 and payments for spectrum will start -- the important payments for spectrum will take place after that. We have this year, only a small nominal payment, which is less relevant. And yes, it's included in CapEx. So a question from [indiscernible]. A follow-up on what you said on launching both fixed and mobile this year in Belgium, which fixed services will there be and on which network? So we are we are building our own network, and we intend to launch all services, broadband, TV and fixed telephony. [indiscernible]. In regard to your potential disposal of fiber in Spain, what is the potential valuation for [indiscernible]? So it's certainly one, we have commented only in principle that we are open to such a transaction. If we are successful or if we're close to financing one, we'll come back to the market and we will announce all the details. It's -- we cannot comment at this moment. Stephane Beyazian. Do you see a potential in Belgium and Portugal, similar or larger or lower to what you achieved in Spain or other markets -- geos, sorry -- markets, yes. Do you see any reason to go faster in the ramp-up? Well, I do think you -- I mean every market is different. Every market has its opportunities, every market has its problems. And it is -- we do not -- it is very difficult to -- sorry, from our point of view, from my point of view, it's very difficult to benchmark yourself or comparing yourself versus other markets. In Spain, we have the experience of 15 years to be present in that market to offer services. We have a large customer base, primarily mobile. We have a large organization, close to 8,000 employees which are helping this successful operation on a daily basis. And these are all [indiscernible] which help us grow and continue growing and developing our operations, while most Portugal and Belgium are new markets and the challenges that our colleagues have there are just as big or probably bigger than we have in Spain just because these are new operations. So we don't try to put short-term goals -- sorry, we do have them internally. But really, it's impossible to announce that to the market and to benchmark against these goals. In any case, just going further, it's also very difficult to predict how successful or less successful we'll be in the market -- will we be in these markets. But we, again, sincerely hope that our main strategic advantage, ability to provide high-quality services on latest technologies available and at affordable prices will have a niche in both of these markets. Question from [indiscernible]. Digi's strategy is to keep its pricing of services unchanged regardless of higher costs. Could you comment what your main competitors in Romania and Spain are doing? Are they also keeping prices unchanged as well? Thank you, [indiscernible], for the question. I'm not sure you are reading our strategy correctly. We don't -- we certainly do not have a fixed pricing strategy or a price -- or a strategy to keep prices unchanged regardless. No, we certainly are flexible. It's just a matter of -- we are flexible and we are responding to various needs and to their strategic requirements. We -- and as I mentioned in my previous answer, our strategy is really to provide high-quality services on the best infrastructure available for the affordable prices, for the correct prices. And these affordable prices are different on a market-by-market basis and the affordability also changes in time because also countries evolve, and we all want to be a bit richer and more affluent 5 years down the road, 10 years down the road or 15 years down the road. These changes happen. These changes take place. It's just that we do not notice them on a daily basis. So coming back to your question, we don't have, again, a philosophy of not changing the prices or keeping the prices low. It's just that at this moment in Romania, but also in other markets, we feel that we have the right price which allows us to provide these services to our customers, but also allows us to grow. And these are really our priorities. So yes, but thank you very much for asking the question and helping me to address it from this point of view. And last, you asked about the competition. Yes, I think you're absolutely right. We noticed that in most other markets, Romania and Spain included, our competitors are increasing the prices in the last period. But again, we are independent, and we don't feel this is the moment for us to do so. And a question for [ Marcus Sun ]. When do you plan to launch fixed services in Belgium? So I think we cover -- we addressed this a bit earlier. Also this year. A question from [ log-in ]. Could the BIPT, the regulator in Belgium, give your regulated rights to join the fiber JVs being discussed at the moment between Intelenet, Proximus, et cetera. And excuse me, I had to read question once again. I'm not sure I understand it. So could BIPT in Belgium give you regulated rights? Yes, excuse me, I'm not sure I understand the question. Yes. Sorry. Question from [indiscernible]. Does you answer to the question of on edpnet in Belgium mean that edpnet and its customers will not be integrated in the JV with Citymesh? And if so, why not? So once again, it's -- we are Digi. It's a Digi conference call and edpnet belongs to Citymesh. We can't really comment on what Citymesh will do with edpnet. And it's difficult at this moment to comment if the joint venture will do [indiscernible] edpnet because it's every one. Sorry. But we certainly do not exclude any cooperation and/or any future cooperation between us, edpnet or Citymesh. So it's not a no, it's not a yes. It's just an asset belonging to a different person who we are partners with but still we are different in this perspective. A question from Mollie Witcombe. Is there a time scale limit or other conditions attached to the wholesale auction in Spain? I'm not sure I do understand the question. If you refer us on how to potential roaming agreement, the one that is signed with Orange and MásMóvil. I think there is a calendar -- there is an implementation calendar which has to be followed by the parties, but we will not comment on the details. So yes, I hope you understand. Thank you. [indiscernible]. Will prices in Portugal be the same as those in Spain? Will you launch the operation in Portugal with 5G? Yes, we will launch the Portugal -- we will launch Portugal with 5G certainly. About prices, it's early on. We'll announce them exactly when we launch the services. And once again, in line with our previous discussion. We will aim to provide both affordable and relevant prices for both of these customers. But it's early on to comment exactly on the levels. Yes. So it's been quite a run. There were many questions. I think so far, the chat box has frozen. We'll wait for a couple of more minutes and if there will be questions, we'll resume. If not, we'll stop. For those who are still on, there's an opportunity for Dan to comment on the financial questions that were asked earlier.

So the question addressing energy costs, but -- in -- for '24 and what we're expecting. Now obviously, it's just an expectation, it's not something sure. However, when you look at the energy cost, so we have 2 main types, the cost of energy for the part of supply that we have with our customers. And for those we expect them to drop, but that would be the general trend that we end from [indiscernible] is something in general for the overall energy costs. And then there is the cost of our own energy for the mobile and the fixed network. Where in addition of the general decrease in the cost of energy, we are also expecting a decrease as a result of the fact that we invested throughout '23 and most likely throughout '24 also in equipping mainly our mobile sites with solar panels to have a better supply, let's say, of energy in terms of costs, but also in order to why not become more green and to align to the trend that we now see in all industry for them. Now this is for energy. For the question regarding the decrease in net finance expense. Well, it's a bit more complex question because it's an acquisition. It aggregates revenues, expenses and it aggregates a lot of costs, finance cost. For example, in this case, the drop is due mainly to the ForEx position, be it as a result of the end of period revaluation of the positions that we have in foreign currency. Because we do report in euro, while, as you know, the largest subsidiary is in Romania and it has the functional [ currency loan ]. So this ForEx position was quite large in Q3. However, in Q4 was the other way around, let's say, it was a small gain. So this is one. Then, also here in this finance expense net, we'll also record the interest from the IFRS 16 measurement. One element that -- as we modify or as we sign a new contract, especially larger ones, rent contracts that is, so the old operational basis. So these additions or these abundance of contracts are translated into remeasurements of IFRS 16. These remeasurements translating to a higher or a lower interest expense, which is booked normally in the period when you do this remeasurement. This was the case and in Q2, there was a normal quarter in Q3, we had a remeasurement as a result of 1 big contract in Q4. We had another 1 as a result of another big contract. So there was this thing. Now in addition to that, in Q4 or so actually from Q3, but in Q4, we paid some smaller finance instruments, which resulted in a small -- and didn't draw one as you actually see from the net liability position or net debt position, which is a bit lower. And as you know in Portugal, we are only building a network without actually seeing the revenue so far. And for that, we are able -- or actually the IFRS accounting standards let us capitalize the interest for the construction. There was also a small explanation in this capitalization of interest expense for the Portugal category. Now, basically, this will explain what we saw with this variation between Q3 and Q4. And yes, hopefully, the annual report, we will shed more light on the position because there, I mean, in the notes to the financial statements there is or there will be actually a presentation that will give more detail. And yes, before for the finance questions.

So we don't have any other questions. We thank you very much for your patience and also for your interest. Once again, we are extremely, extremely happy about the 2023 results. And we will look forward to a similar exciting 2024 for us but also for all of you. And we hope to see you all in May when we speak about the first quarter results. In the meantime, at the end of April, we will certainly publish the full year results in more detail where you will be able to see a lot of financial information on 2023. So once again, thank you very much, and all the best. Bye.