Digi Communications N.V. (DIGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Digi Communications N.V. Investors Q1 2024 Financial Presentation. A copy foreword is posted in the Investor Relations section of its website at digi-communications.ro. [Operator Instructions] Before we get started, we are in that certain statements in this conference call are forward-looking and therefore subject to material risks and uncertainties. Actual results to differ materially from those stated or implied by such forward-looking statements due to the risks and uncertainties associated with the Digi Communications N.V., which is can amongst others, various risk related or business risks related to regulatory matters and litigation risks related to investments in emerging market risks related to our financial position as well as risks related to notes and the related guarantee. I would like to introduce the speakers for today's call, Mr. Serghei Bulgac, the CEO of Digi Communications N.V.; and Mr. Dan Ionita, the company's CFO. We may now begin the call.

Thank you very much, Mariana. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our First Quarter Results Presentation Call. We are [indiscernible] and very happy to guide you through our results and to take questions at the very end. So without too much [indiscernible], we are thrilled to show you our results with sales of EUR 447 million, 12% up year-on-year in the first quarter of 2024. RGUs reaching almost EUR 25 million, EUR 24.7 million at the end of March and over EUR 25 million as of end of April, a 14% growth year-on-year. And EBITDA growth of 23% EBITDA, excluding IFRS 16 numbers, reaching EUR 140 million in the quarter. These outstanding results were driven by strong performance in our main 2 markets and by far by [indiscernible] performance of our Spanish operations. And by the contribution of our colleagues in Spain with RGUs growing in Spain, 24 -- 32% overall. Mobile energy is growing 24% and surpassing 5 million units. Broadband RGUs reaching over 1.5 million units, a 57% growth year-on-year. And fixed-telephone RGUs reaching almost 500,000 units a 55% growth. Romania showed an overall 9% growth in RGUs driven by mobile telephone. We're also reaching around number of more than 6 million users by the end of first quarter. Pay TV, cable and DTH, 5.7 million users and open 4.6 million users. We continue to execute our strategy in 2024, which basically aims to sustain growth and consolidation in the key markets, Romania and Spain, which looks further to enhance our position in Spain through accelerated development of fixed networks, but also through the negotiation of both long-term mobile relationship agreement, basically, the national roaming agreement, but also the agreement to develop for the networks and to start our own network somewhat during 2025. Again, because our position on the Spanish market and not lost our strategy to launch services in both Portugal and Belgium in the second part of this year. Among recent developments that we had in the last couple of months, we have -- and this -- we have signed probably the most important event is signing of the Macquarie transaction for selling 6 million home parts in Spain across 12 provinces to acquire capital. The total transaction value goes up to EUR 750 million to be executed over the next approximately 4 years with the significant portion of comps of 4.25% to be delivered later this year once the necessary approvals from the Spanish authorities and the European Commission are in place. We have also signed recently 2 small financing agreements around EUR 170 million panels, the acquisition of mobile equipment in cooperation with export credit agencies and also a bridge facility of EUR 50 million to short-term-ish facility to support our parent operations in Spain. Coming back to the numbers, we are again happy to show total sales of almost EUR 150 million, driven significantly -- well, continue to be driven by Romania with revenues being more than EUR 260 million in the first quarter. Spain reaching almost EUR 180 million and Italy being at EUR 7.6 million. As I mentioned earlier, EBITDA amounted to EUR 240 million, with the main contributing EUR 108 million; and Spain, contributing EUR 34 million to this number. And RGUs, more than 17 million users in Romania and then EUR 7 million users in Spain. On the financial highlights slide, you see the key indicators of the business, I repeat myself. Sales growth quarter year-on-year of 12% to EUR 447 million in the quarter. EBITDA, including IFRS 16 numbers, EUR 163 million, up 22% from EUR 134 million. Of this EUR 140 million is EBITDA result. The increase of IFRS 16 and EUR 23 million is the contribution of IFRS 16 numbers. CapEx in the quarter amounted to EUR 169 million, almost EUR 170 million, up from EUR 158 million before -- a year before. And overall, reaching 38% of sales, somewhat lower than a year ago when it amounted to 40% of sales. These all saving results are due to growth, growth in basically network expansion and the new customer additions for Spanish and the Romanian market, but also -- yes, so by far, growth and customer additions for the main reason for our outstanding results. And briefly to the customer side, and we see, as I mentioned, total number of users reaching almost 25 million at the end of March. The largest segment is by far the mobile segment with 11.4 million users. Being the largest is also the fastest-growing segment, but by a very strong evolution in Spain and strong evolution in Romania, followed by broadband with 70% growth and reaching a total of almost 6.2 million users. And in Pay TV, it's only the Romanian market being 5.7 million users and showing a 4% growth year-on-year. In terms of markets, Romania continues to be the largest. However, being the most penetrated and the most mature market, it shows a growth rate of 8%. Spain has outstanding results, growing by 32% year-on-year from, 5.3 million users to more than 7 million users in the quarter. And Italy has also grown almost 20% down, 370,000 users with 435,000 users by the end of Q1. Just briefly on the financing slide, you see our total net debt at 1.35 1,350 yes, excuse me, EUR 1.350 billion of total net debt. Net leverage of time. And if you see the repayment and maturity profile, we have EUR 93 million outstanding this year in 2024 and EUR 616 million outstanding in 2025. I'm sure this will be asked during our Q&A part. We have a bond of EUR 450 million maturing in February 2025, which we intend to repay later in Q4 this year, basically across October, November this year. All in all, also helped by the proceeds of the Macquarie transaction, we intend to repay both the notes in the amount of EUR 450 million, but also other instruments on the balancing agreements. Totaling EUR 150 million. So all in all, we intend to repay approximately EUR 600 million of financial exposure later this year. So this is our intention, and we will certainly -- I'm sure some of you will have questions and we will discuss it in detail later on if needed. Just a couple of words on 2024 and beyond. So maybe it's slightly beat from what we said a bit earlier. We continue -- we continue focusing in Romania and Spain on organic growth. In Romania, it's it is to exploit to the maximum efficiency, the existing networks, the fixed networks and the mobile networks. In Spain, the effort is coupled with -- together with further development of the fixed networks and later on, not in 2024, but in 2025 with the development of our own networks, which will be based on the remedy frequencies that we were awarded as part of the Orange MásMóvil net transaction disclosed earlier this year. We are focused and keen to negotiate the long-term national roaming agreement in Spain which will help us basically transit from the MVNO to an operator stage but also will help us to boost and use -- sorry, to use properly more frequencies and to improve our presence in the Spanish market. And of course, we continue focusing, as I said earlier, on launching services, both in Portugal and in Belgium later this year. In Portugal, the intention is to launch our core services, both fixed and mobile, where in Belgium, we will decide on details somewhat later as we still we still are in an ever development phase over there. Having said this, I'm almost done with the presentation. And just a couple of words on the upcoming general meetings of the meeting of shareholders that is due to take place on June 25. We are proposing a dividend of EUR 1.25 million per share, which will be voted at the general meeting of the shareholders. It's a 25% increase for the last year dividend of 1 Romanian Leu per share. Also among the minister, the normal routine events that will take at the general meeting of shareholders, we will have the Board of Directors reelected, reappointed or appointed as the case may be, because the duration of the current Board is expiring as we -- well, in the coming weeks. So this is basically the agenda in brief, and we hope you, the shareholders to cast your vote and to participate in the general meeting of the shareholders later in June. I think I'm done with the presentation and with the slides, and we invite all of you to ask questions. Thank you very much.

So thank you very much for the questions started showing up. As usual, we going to ask you to ask questions in the chat box. We will read the questions below, and we will do our best to answer. If necessary, my colleague Dan Ionita will help with maybe no particular financial questions. Okay. First question comes from [indiscernible]. Digi will start operations in 2024 in Belgium. Can you tell when exactly that will be? Thank you for the question. We did mention it last time that in our last call that it is 2024. It is second part of the year. But at this moment, we cannot be more precise. We hope you understand that you have the patience with us. Thank you. A question from Luigi Minerva from HSBC. Can you give us an update about your talks with Telefónica in Spain? Electronika said a nonbinding agreement is signed. Is it only roaming or also around sharing? How are the economics compared to your current RA by renegotiating with other contract parts in parallel, many things? Yes. Thank you very much. It's a very comprehensive, and I think it's a very good question. It is correct. So let me start with the context and with then I'll follow with the details. As we were discussing on our previous calls, we have -- as part of the Orange MásMóvil merger approval, we have basically an award of the frequencies in 1800, 2100 and 3,500 megahertz bands. But we also have an agreement basically a national roaming agreement, a long-term agreement signed with Orange MásMóvil to support the usage of the [indiscernible]. The agreement is nonexclusive, and it allows us to negotiate similar agreement and to make the choice for the best agreement with any other operator in the market, which, as we said, we are keen to do and we are leasing to do. And yes, we can confirm that we have an unbinding term sheet signed with Telefónica. It's for a long-term cooperation, covering both national roaming and sharing options. And we are, let's say, in an advanced stage to negotiate also the final details of this agreement through the form of final documents. Once we are finished, we will come back to the market to announce the details of this agreement, we would say. The question from [indiscernible]. So greetings and corporations for the great results. I have a few questions. Q1 -- sorry, question 1, excuse me. How do you explain the dynamics of the net working capital during the first quarter? And how do you stand compared to your budget? I think the question is a bit too detail for me. It's [indiscernible] to consider this question and then we'll come back a bit later to this question as the core proceeds. I hope I can answer the next question. The second question is about ARPU. How do you explain the decrease of [indiscernible] in Romania, Spain and Italy? And we -- should we expect to stabilize? Do you consider to increase the pricing of your bundles? I think there's one common trend in ARPU evolution that affects both part but also a most other -- or other mobile operators is the decrease in the mandatory interconnect rate that happens across all of the entire European Union. So part of the ARPU decrease comes from there. It has been scheduled decrease over the last 3.5 years. And this is the last decrease that the commission has established [indiscernible]. At this rate, at this moment, an interconnect minute costs EUR 0.2 for mobile termination. So part of ARPU degree decline comes from this year. The other part of ARPU decline comes from more and more customers or, let's say, new users, undertaking less expensive packages. So it's really a mix of usage across our products and products across all prices. And this -- we have this phenomenon going on for a number of years. We -- it is continuing. I think it's -- the dilution is marginal, and we do not expect this to be significant as we go forward. So these are not base decreases. It's a natural evolution of a -- and the next question is, do you consider to increase the pricing of your bundles? At this moment or not, I think you mentioned yourself in the question that the results are great. So we also see the results are quite as positive on one hand, due to continued customer support and continued customer usage and uptake. But also on an EBITDA level, we are growing. So there is no reason for us to increase the prices. Question number 3. Digi started to develop its own infrastructure in Italy. So we expect the same story regarding this market compared to Spain? What is your perspective? I think it's too early to judge our Italian experience. We continue to operate there in a test phase in our market test basically face. And this moment is premature to both extrapolate, but also it's premature to do big projections. So yes, really, there is no comment on our side. We are well early on. Q4 question number four. Regarding the heavy intensive CapEx and ongoing projects, what keeps you at night? Well, I think -- thank you very much. I think it's a very open-ended question. And yes, it's certainly a nice question. We have been spoiled in a very good sense by high growth rates, which continue body shifting from Romania to Spain, as you noticed. We are keen to preserve the growth rates. We are keen to service our customer base as well as we did in the past, but also in the future. We are keen to preserve the high-quality service that we give, provide to our customers in all our markets, especially in Romania because this is probably the most mature and the most demanding market, certainly in all other markets as well, Spain, Italy. And we are very keen to launch the 2 new markets that we operate in that we started in with Portugal and Belgium. It's really -- it's a lot of provocations. So I hope you have the same feeling as we do. So really, the options are being our side and also the responsibility to perform to the best probability is also big. But thank you for the question. And the last question, question number five. What's your view on the impact of artificial intelligence for Digi? Well, sorry, I mean, privately as a person from time to time, I use Chat GPT, it's not an advertisement. But beyond that, I don't know. I mean we continue to be rather more traditional telecom operator. We continue to rely on the infrastructure rollout and development. We have been efficient and we are successful in building networks. We will continue to operate in this share. So I think AI is a territory for other companies and other operators. But thank you once again. Thank you for the questions. So the next question comes again from Luigi Minerva. In Portugal, when you see a mobile roaming agreement, what are the options for fiber to build also will you offer in TV? What distribution channels will you use? So we are keen to have roaming agreement. As a matter of fact, we have -- basically, we have currently an MVNO and roaming in Spain. We have room in Belgium. We do not have roaming in Portugal, but we have not had any success or ability to conclude a roaming agreement with the existing operators also due to lack of appropriate offers received so far. So we are keen, but we did not have any opportunity or any chance to sign a roaming agreement in the Portuguese market. With respect to the fixed network build or wholesale option, we are also quite open to use wholesale. As a matter of fact, we've signed an agreement with Vodafone in view of their position of as MásMóvil Novo operation from Portugal. However, at this moment, this is not our key priority as our key priority in terms of fixed infrastructure is to build our own network. But again, we are open to also use the postal networks. We're certainly not putting limits here. And will your offer include TV? Yes, in Portugal, we believe saving TV services is very important. And the last about the distribution channels, I think it's in development. So it's a bit too early to say, but we will use all the options available, including the physical stores, online presence and any other options. So thank you. I'll move to the next question. So again, from [indiscernible], you said you will decide on the services to launch in Belgium later this year. Can you elaborate on that? Yes. So for sure, we start with the mobile services. This is our immediate priority. We are very keen to start with the fixed services. We'll just have to make sure how advanced we get and when we can start. So that's what I wanted to say. And I hope it answers the question. The question from Ricardo [indiscernible], is there any obstacle in the interconnection of Digi mobile network communications with the 3 operators in Portugal? Now that I know of. It's a bit too deterred too technical. But to my knowledge, the interconnection works well. So I'm not aware that that we would have an issue. A question from Peter Eric. Any update you can provide us on your launch of retail product in Portugal? Anything specific like a launch date, what kind of network coverage will be launch with, et cetera? Apology, I will not be very helpful. So as I did mention, it is this year, it will be in the second part of the year, but we don't have info to share. The question is from Andrew Webb. Can you expand on your plans to repay EUR 600 million of debt, how will this refunded? Well, thank you. I was expecting this. And basically, I think there was a longer discussion in our previous call on this topic. And the idea is that we have our own funds in the range of EUR 150 million, which we intend to use for prepayment. We have an undrawn facility in Romania that we signed last year in the undrawn term loan in the amount of EUR 150 million -- and we will also be helped by funds available through the acquired transaction, funds that will help us ease the CapEx pressure and we release funds for repayment of debt. So basically, these are the main sources for that repayment on our side. In addition to the sources I mentioned, we continue having 100 million undrawn revolver facility, which is there to cover any other needs, but including also the repayment needs or for the needs to repay the financial -- the EUR 600 million of loans that I mentioned earlier. I do hope it's helping. A question from Ganesh. Are you participating in [indiscernible] cooperation agreement in Belgium? We are interested to participate in any fiber operation in Belgium. So we are very interested in any industrial initiatives and whether it's mobile sharing, [indiscernible], fiber sharing on any other infrastructure sharing. So a question from anonymous. Could you share the figures for additions to noncurrent assets for Q1, including Romania, Spain and other place? But I'm sure these figures are presented in our report. So if you follow to the segment section of the Q1 or the first quarter report, you will find this information. It was not part of the Q4 preliminary report because this was the short report. But usually, throughout first, second and third quarter reporting, this information is available in the segment report and is also available in the final full year report for every year. So if you look carefully into the numbers into the far, you will see this information there. A question from [indiscernible]. Can you just confirm that you plan to redeem the senior secured notes due February 25, with the proceeds from [indiscernible] network cell? Will you redeem this as far or wear a tender. So I did touch upon this there. I will repeat, we will use our own cash, the cash we have on the balance sheet. We will use the undrawn facility agreement of EUR 150 million, and we will use part of the plants basically released through the Macquarie transaction was that we do not need to use for CapEx for repayment of the February 2025 loans. Whether we redeem this part of [indiscernible] -- excuse me, it's a bit too technical. We have not made a decision so far, but we'll certainly announce the market once we take the decision. Question from Peter Jurik. What has made you change your strategy of asset ownership. I don't think you have sold assets before. Previously, we have commented that you like designing your own networks and doing it properly, so might now give up control of this. Should we be expecting more deals like this going forward in other regions? Does it also open up chances for you to rent fiber fixed infra in other regions? Well, I think it's a fair question. I will try to explain ourselves. We have to be competitive. We are keen to continue growing as most companies in our industry do and diversifying our sources of capital is very important in this respect. The quality is not the first of this kind. It's the second deal of this kind, after we did the [indiscernible] transaction earlier last year. So it is the second transaction of this kind. Indeed, there are differences between the 2. In the [indiscernible] transaction, we continue controlling the asset. We continue having the majority in our joint -- the majority share in our joint venture. While in the Macquarie transaction, the entire basically network, the 6 million homes post will be sold to Macquarie. Having said this, we are not just selling -- we are also signing a long-term 25-year lease agreement that guarantees towards the access, proper access to the network that we built, that we design and that we will continue using to the best of our needs. So in a way, yes, it's somewhat a change from what we did before. On the other hand, as I mentioned in our previous calls, we have strived, we have did most of our efforts, we have used most of our efforts. So that any elimination of this kind does not change our strategy. It does not change our ability to use the network, but also does not change the economics of our -- and our ability to offer services in the Spanish market whether we will continue with transactions in the future, yes or no, it is premature to say so we are just following the -- following the market. We are following the opportunities, and we will make an appropriate decision at a certain time in the future. So far so good. We are okay with what we did until now, and we are not working on a different transaction on this time today. A question from Daniel [indiscernible]. First of all, conversations on the results, especially the results regarding Portugal, with the mobile and fixed services be launched at the same time. Yes, we were working aiming to launch both the mobile and tic services around the same time. Any forecast for the start of operation? Well, it's the second part of this year. A question from Nora [indiscernible], one question from my side, please. How much did you invest into effication network in Spain so far of which a significant part was recently sold? Thank you. Nora, we are not disclosing this info. Sorry for this. So sorry for being less helpful on this front. But on the other hand, as a hint, you can certainly study the segment portion of our current reports where you see the total investments that we did in Spain, but also in any other markets. And you can certainly try to do some estimations on just some estimations from there, apology, and I hope we are as helpful as we can be. So a question from Mark Chapman. Could you please give some more color on the economics of the fiber sales in Spain, particularly the costs associated with the remaining rollout from [indiscernible] million comes to EUR 6 million, and the cost of serving your own growing broadband-based market? It's more or less -- it's not a repeat, but it's a question very similar to Nora's question just a bit before. Apology. We are obtaining to buy the market very precisely on this so we would like to keep the numbers somewhat private to us and the way to operations. Apology for this. So another question from Ricardo [indiscernible] mobile network average at the start of commercial operations in Portugal. We have national coverage, including the Mazor and Madera. We are concentrating more on the Continental Portugal, but we'll certainly follow with [indiscernible]. A quick question from [indiscernible]. What is the penetration of the remaining part of the fiber infrastructure that you will own in Spain after the transaction with [indiscernible]? I read the words. I understand the words. I do not fully understand the question, apology. I mean, just to answer with a few data points, we have over 9 million tons past in Spain today. And this year at closing of the Macquarie transaction, we will be selling of EUR 4.25 million on past to Macquarie. I'm not sure that was the question, but I hope it covers what was intended to us. A question from [indiscernible]. Is the testing space of fixed line services in Italy above or below your expectations? No, it's still too early to comment. We don't have a comment on this today. So a question from anonymous. Can you share what your CapEx per Compass will be for the fiber in Portugal? No, we try to abstain from sharing this information for any of our markets. Bert Bruns, the Bergen Telecom [indiscernible], BIPT, opened the door for telcos to cooperate on building fiber networks as a seal to other operators about this. And so with reaching other operators. Sorry, I will not be -- I will not be very open on this, but we're certainly discussing with other operators as well. Question from Joanna -- what is the coverage in Portugal, mobile and fixed networks? We are not disposing it now. We will certainly try to be more open towards large port services. The question from Peter [indiscernible], you mentioned early in the call that you were trailing your own 6 network in Italy, with [indiscernible] open fiber available at broadly, can you explain your rationale for building out your own network and overbuilding the competition for ops looking to build out the gray areas where [indiscernible] is building at the moment? Look, we are open to any option to cooperate in any of the markets. We're not really keen just able only with our network. So only with cost. Having said this, I think it's a very general statement where we look for the best options in any market, whether it's building our own networks or using the [indiscernible]. If you think open fiber beer is cheaper than building our own networks, you're right not to use our network. Yes. A question from David [indiscernible], could you give some color on the scale of cost increase after the sale of fiber infrastructure in Spain? We do not expect post increase after the sale of [indiscernible] in Spain. I think -- so from this point of view, we expect the same [indiscernible] to be neutral. As a part of the agreement, we have externalized the asset. We will have a long-term access to the network. On the other hand, we will be the operator providing maintenance services to the network. So we do not expect significant or any changes in our cost structure in Spain. Another question from anonymous. What will be the cost of the Macquarie [indiscernible] in the first 12 months, please? Yes, it's a fair question. It's a bit detailed. I don't have the numbers now. We -- and I'm thinking it's rule. I'm not sure we will announce it to the market. But yes, let us take it off plan and just think one other question. Thank you. The question or another question from Joana -- in Portugal, we target B2B market for small companies, for example. As a matter of [indiscernible], we have a B2B presence and coverage in Romania. However, in all other markets, we are not specifically targeting the B2B market. And it's only accidentally if businesses, small businesses specifically as for our services. So we have no policy to exclude B2B customers. But on the other hand, we're not going after the B2B market. Question from [indiscernible]. I would like to launch without an NRA agreement are you expecting to get in the future? Do we think it is possible to remain result [indiscernible]? Well, thank you for the question. And certainly, we will launch the services regular less of whether [indiscernible] agreement is available or not. Whether we expect one to get in the future. We are open to [indiscernible], but this is not our primary strategy. Do you think it is possible to remain without one? Yes, we think so. We think we can operate also without the roaming agreement in Portugal. Can you confirm current average in the country in terms of percent of mobile coverage, millions of cost was covered in fixed topology, I think we -- I mentioned this before, we will not be providing these detailed numbers as of now. Oliver [indiscernible]. An accounting question, are all of your preparation launch for in Portugal currently reflected in CapEx? There doesn't appear to be much a step-up in operating expenses in the other segment. Well, we have also have CapEx associated with the development and growth of both mobile and fixed in Portugal. We also [indiscernible] negative EBITDA coming out of Portugal. And it is shown in the other segment, along with the positive Italian EBITDA and negative Dutch costs that we have at the level of the holding company. It helps, but we have both. We have both CapEx and OpEx costs reflected in our financials. I think [indiscernible] is coming break with a clarification on an earlier question about the sale of net in Spain, and it is that cement customer penetration number of customers, number of homes costs. Apologies. This is way too detail. And it is difficult to -- I mean, sorry, just for the benefit of all listeners. The question would trust into the following, what is the remaining penetration on the networks that remain in Digi's possession? I think one, we have not really shared the penetration overall, which we will also not do today. But just commenting broadly on the Macquarie transaction, I think the penetration would not change because our networks are more or less similar across the old geography of Spain. And what we sell is not very different from what we keep. So the penetration of the sole networks and [indiscernible] of the maintaining networks is more or less the same. So a question from anonymous. Do you think Digi can build fiber cheaper than others? And if so, what is the source of competitive advantage, please? I see no, sorry, I'm not sure I should go into this question because it's really a comparative question comparing us to the others. And I'm not sure this is -- it's way to or should I say, rhetorical and let's rather not go there. But thank you. I mean I'm not sure I can be helpful. What are the plans for starting deployment of [indiscernible] to Spain? It's a question from Michael. Thank you for the question. Well -- it's later on. It's later on for the second part of this year, beginning of next year because we are in the process of obtaining the frequencies from Orange MásMóvil which we have obtained, we are sorry, just explain in a bit more detail about [indiscernible] a general scale. We are in the process of dealing with the Spanish authorities for transferring the spectrum [indiscernible] us. Once it is finished and we open, we expect this to be completed in the coming weeks, we will have the right to have the spectrum. However, on a technical level, the spectrum will be transferred to us only during next year. So around mid of 2024. Why so? Because our both origin MásMóvil to release the spectrum, it takes time because currently, this spectrum is used by the operations that was embedded into the remedy package that is basically part of the remedy transaction. Now we will align the network development with, on one hand, availability of the frequencies. On the other hand, with the timing of the long-term national roaming, but also network sharing agreement that we expect to have signed in the coming weeks. And once basically, it is done, we will be able to decide sooner. But before that, it still remains -- we are seeing in very early preparatory phase. Also a question from anonymous. Thanks for all the assets. Can you say roughly how many mobile sites you have now live in Portugal and Belgium? Yes, sorry, I will not be helpful. We will announce this towards the launch of the services end of the network. Thank you, sorry. Questions from [indiscernible]. What is the reason why the launch of the sets in Portugal was delayed? Last year gave us -- you gave the beginning of 2024 as your target. It is true that we were more bullish but earlier. But as you on one hand, launching the network in about 2 years' time from the moment you win the frequencies in [indiscernible] licenses. I think -- and it's a fully owned. It's 100% owned. It's a 100% proprietary network is a very short time, I think for any operator, and postponing the network launch by a couple of months is not a big delay. So yes, but no other comment. Question from Brad. What is the main driver of the year-on-year ARPU decline in the other segment from EUR 6.2 to EUR 5.9? So on this segment at this moment improves only Italian operations, and this is the result of our offering -- our improved offering and the result of, as I said, as I mentioned, our customers taking more advantages offers from us. So a question from [indiscernible] Enriquez. Is there any regulation in Portugal or in the spectrum license that you bought that entitles you to M&A? Not directly. So no operator is obliged is to, obliged to provide us an offer for now -- sorry, there is no mandatory provision that would give us any day that we can use. I'm not sure my answer is very, very clear, excuse me. But where we have received offers in Portugal for the national roaming agreement. These offers are expensive. And neither we are obliged to take these offers. Now the other operators are obliged to improve them, so which basically is not a strong commitment, not a strong obligation or part of anyone to provide a functioning and array. It's really up to the other operators to -- if they want us on their network to provide [indiscernible] works, if they do not want us in their network, [indiscernible]. A question from Christian [indiscernible]. My congratulations for the great set of results. What will be the impact of the sale of the Spanish fiber network on EBITDA and reported P&L looking forward? If I'm able to disclose, could you clarify how big is the fiber network you keep in Spain versus the one who sold is of similar size? So yes, I will -- there is just the second part of the network, and I did mention it before, we have more than -- we have over 9 million on past in Spain at this moment, of which at the moment of closing the Macquarie transaction, we will dispose of [indiscernible]. So we will remain with 4.75 million more because we continue building the networks as we speak. Yes, I hope this is helpful. A question from Mark Chapman, given the modest changes in launch timing, FTTH sales spectrum realities in Spain, could you please give some more guidance on your CapEx expectations for 2024 and 2025? Well, this cushion came late in the discussion, but it was certainly expected. So I believe last time in February, we mentioned that we expect around EUR 650 million in CapEx in 2024 because the year, the year unfolds well operationally from the financing point of view. And in general, we are certainly revising this CapEx slightly higher to EUR 650 million, EUR 700 million for 2024. It is too early on for us to judge 2025. In any case, the underlying trend is that we will aim to manage decrease our Romanian CapEx. We will aim to maintain -- maybe increase our Spanish CapEx. We will aim to continue developing the Portuguese and Belgian operations in view of the launches and network development. So a question from [indiscernible]. What percentage of the fixed network in Spain was sold? What percentage that you're still keeping? I think it's a repeat, we don't need to answer it again. And so forth, we've reached the end of the least. Also one question from Russel [indiscernible]. On the recent deal with Macquarie, it's for 6 million. Does that exclude the 1.5 milliamp with the Abrdn joint venture? So you would have 7.5 million total ages in Spain with the number of Ps grow from 7.5% or 7.5 million the [indiscernible]. So let me come back to the main numbers, is -- as I mentioned, -- as I mentioned earlier, we have 9 million HPs, which in total as of today, of which 4.25 at closing will be sold to Macquarie. The remaining 1.75 from EUR 4.5 million to EUR 6 million will be built over the next 4 years or so. So these are future stops. In terms of Abrdn, Abrdn is included in the EUR 9 million for a simple reason, while we have the joint venture and the partnership with Abrdn, as I mentioned during this call earlier, we maintained the majority ownership and the control of our common network with Abrdn. And that's why we count these HPs as ours. The truth is they are [indiscernible] our Abrdn together, but again, the majority is on our side. And second question, does this deal mean that there are going to be some homes with fiber lines, one from Telefonica, Vodafone, Orange MásMóvil and Macquarie or is there some a lot of sharing through IRUs? Well, I think it's a good question. And -- that I hope I had my Spanish pallets on the call with me. I listened as an expert in the Spanish network. However, in my understanding, in my view, you will not have, in most cases, or networks in the same building, you would have maybe 2 or 3 because indeed, in many other cases, Telefonica, Orange, Vodafone and other operators are using [indiscernible]. So it's yes and no. It's not really all networks, but it's more than one. One more question from Russell. Have said what the wholesale rate is on the fiber chain venture with a boring and acquire. No, unfortunately, no. Yes. So a question from Oliver [indiscernible]. Why have you decided not to refinance the 2025 bond in public markets? Here, it's a fair question. We are certainly open keen to come back to the bond markets, but not in 2024. Maybe we've been supported too much by the break of red markets. Maybe this is stored in today's context, wishing for such low rates. But again, we remain open as of yet. We're looking questions for the moment. I hope it was an extensive discussion. We'll wait on the line for a minute or 2 to see if there are more questions. If not, we will close the line. So no questions so far. I'll just come briefly to the one of the earlier questions that put us for the net working capital changes in Q1. And the answer is very, very simple. Excuse me if we're not being able to -- to address it immediately. There's EUR 450 million change coming from reclassification of the bond that is maturing in February 2025 from the long term to short term. So nothing wrong with us. It is well expected. And as we said, we intend to refinance it in Q4 this year. Yes, I hope this is helpful. And with this, we close our discussion and we will invite you to discuss our Second Quarter Results in Midwest in mid-August. Thank you very much once again and all the best. Bye-bye.