Digi Communications N.V. (DIGI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Digi Communications N.V. Investors Half Year of 2024 Financial Results Presentation. A copy of the corresponding report is posted in the Investor Relations section of Digi's website at digi-communications.ro. The conference is being recorded today, and a replay will be available shortly after. For today's call, please submit your questions for the Q&A session at the end of the presentation using the chat box. Before we can start, you are advised that certain statements in this conference call are forward-looking and therefore, subject to material risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from those stated or implied by such forward-looking statements due to the risks and uncertainties associated with Digi Communications N.V., which include, amongst others, various risks related to our business, risks related to regulatory matters and litigation, risks related to investments in emerging markets, risks related to our financial position as well as risks related to the notes and the related guarantee. I would like to introduce the speakers for today's call, Mr. Serghei Bulgac, the CEO of Digi Communications N.V.; and Mr. Dan Ionita, the company's CFO. We may now begin the call.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much, Mariana, for the introduction. Welcome to our second quarter 2024 results call. So without too much introduction, let's start through -- going through the presentation. So we had an exciting quarter and an exciting first half of the year, reaching a total sales figure of over EUR 920 million, 13% growth year-on-year. RGUs surpassed 25 million, reaching 25.5 million units as of June 30, a 14% growth, and outstanding figure. And EBITDA, excluding the IFRS 16 accounting treatment, reached EUR 285 million, an almost 20% growth year-on-year. Of course, this all is the result of outstanding performance in Romania and Spain, our core markets at the moment. In Romania, we reached 6.2 million mobile users, 15% growth year-on-year. Pay TV, cable television and satellite services amounted to 5.7 million users, a 4% growth, and broadband amounted to 4.7 million users, a 7% growth year-on-year. Spain continues showing outstanding results with an outstanding 30% growth in terms of RGUs, reaching a total of 7.5 million units. Of course, mobile continues to be the main segment with 5.3 million RGUs, broadband 1.7 million RGUs, continued growth of more than 50% during the quarter -- sorry, in the year preceding second quarter, and fixed telephony 544,000 RGUs, similarly, 50% growth year-on-year. Just a few words on our strategy and our -- and its execution. So in the core markets, in the legacy markets, we are very happy to be able to continue our growth -- our continued growth in development, growth in network rollout, growth in new customer gain, but also just a robust performance in servicing our clients. So Romania -- as we mentioned earlier, Romania had an overall 8% RGU growth, which shows the maturity and consistency of the market. And in Spain, we increased 30% year-on-year. We will continue improving our network coverage, particularly in Spain, where we are building -- rolling out the fixed networks at the moment. We'll continue rolling out marginally our networks in Romania, both fixed and mobile. We continue expanding the 5G footprint of our mobile networks in Romania. And we are also busy in preparing the launch in the 2 markets that -- in the 2 new markets that we tend to launch this year. Of course, it's Portugal and Belgium. Unfortunately, and again, like on previous calls, we will not be very specific about the timing and the size of the launch operations. But for sure, it will happen this year, in the remaining part of the year. And once we are there, we will come back to the market with more details on our operational stance and position. Just a couple of words on the recent developments. So at the end of May, beginning of June, we announced that in partnership with Clever Media Group, we signed a memorandum for acquisition of the entire stake in Telekom Romania owned by Deutsche Telekom Group OTE. This transaction is -- has been submitted to the Romanian authorities for review, and we are waiting for their position and for the -- on this. So once the transaction is approved and can go forward, we'll certainly come back to the market to provide more information on this operation. We -- also in the beginning of June, we signed a EUR 150 million loan with ING Bank as a sole underwriter and arranger. It's a backstop facility to secure a repayment of EUR 450 million bonds that become due in February next year. And as of today, due to the fact that the Macquarie project in Spain has been approved, we do not intend to draw on this facility. So it was really a security for us to make sure that we repay bonds in time and properly. On July 9, so approximately 1 month ago, we signed the national roaming agreement and the RAN sharing agreement with Telefonica for a period of 16 years. This agreement also has a component for mobile spectrum sharing in the 3.5 gigahertz frequency band. This agreement intends to replace the current MVNO agreement as of January 1, 2025, so in less than half a year. It will also -- once closed, it will also allow us to build our own network, also in partnership with Telefonica. Also, as part of this agreement or package, we signed for 10 years, broadband bitstream wholesale agreement with Telefonica to continue expanding our fixed services also on Telefonica's network. So like I mentioned before, we build our own network, and we operate our own network, but we also sell on Telefonica's network, and we intend to continue this activity going forward. And the most recent development on 1st of August 2024, Digi Portugal has signed an agreement with LORCA, the owner of Masmovil in Spain, but also Nowo in Portugal for acquisition of Nowo for EUR 150 million. This transaction is also subject to clearance by the Portuguese Competition Authority, and we are now in contact with the authority for clearance to proceed. The transaction involves 270,000 mobile users, which operate on a virtual network, and 130,000 fixed telecommunication clients. Coming back to the numbers. Basically, we -- and I'll repeat some of the information that was provided before. We are very proud to have achieved almost EUR 475 million of revenues in the second quarter. Adjusted EBITDA, excluding the IFRS 16, was almost EUR 145 million. And as I mentioned previously, total RGUs stood at 25.5 million, with outstanding performance both in Spain and in Romania. Also Italy has grown to 450,000 mobile users in the second quarter of this year. Moving on and looking just in more details at our numbers. So sales grew 13% year-on-year to EUR 475 million from EUR 419 million a year ago. EBITDA, including IFRS 16 numbers, amounted to EUR 170 million, up 17% from EUR 146 million a year ago. And CapEx in the second quarter amounted to EUR 240 million, slightly less than EUR 256 million a year ago. CapEx for 9 months amounted to EUR 409 million -- sorry, CapEx for 6 months amounted to EUR 409 million, and the largest amounts were invested in Romania to accelerate expansion of the 5G network, but also in Spain to build our -- to expand our fixed networks over there. Looking at revenues. Spain has grown 24% year-on-year in the second quarter, reaching -- sorry, yes, in the second quarter, excuse me, reaching EUR 192 million from EUR 157 million a year before. Romania reached EUR 276 million, 5% growth. Overall growth amounted to 13%. EBITDA was -- stood at EUR 170 million, including IFRS 16. Without IFRS 16, EBITDA amounted to EUR 145 million in the quarter. Moving on, just a few words on RGUs. Mobile continues to be -- well, mobile is the largest segment in the group accounting for almost half of our RGUs, having also the highest growth rate of almost 20%. And as you see by the end of the second quarter, we reached almost 12 million RGUs across Romania, Spain and Italy. Broadband is the second fastest growing market, also the second largest growing market with almost 6.4 million RGUs and 16% growth year-on-year, while the Pay TV is at 5.7 million RGUs represented only by Romania, a 3% growth year-on-year. Romania, 17.5 million users, Spain, 7.5 million users, Spain growing at 30% rate year-on-year, an outstanding performance that was delivered by our colleagues there. We continue to perform very well in terms of portability. In Spain, almost 600,000 mobile users joined our network from portability during January-June period. Net portability gain amounted to over 400,000 users in the period. And we also added more than 100,000 fixed telephony lines coming from other operators in the market during January-June in 2024. In Romania, mobile portability growth stood at 382,000 customers. Just a few words on the financials. So total gross debt of EUR 1.6 billion, net debt of EUR 1.5 billion, net leverage 2.7x. We -- as you see in the chart that's on the right-hand side, we have maturities of EUR 639 million coming due in 2025. As discussed previously, the largest of this is a bond tranche of EUR 450 million, which is due in February 2025, and we intend to repay it in the fourth quarter of 2024, so in less than 3 months -- in less than 3 months' time. Yes. Once we draw the funds from the Macquarie transaction, which we expect to close in September, we intend to -- we expect that leverage will decrease to approximately 2x -- the net leverage will decrease approximately 2x. Also recently, we have been rated first time by Fitch, and we received a BB stable rating, which is -- we see as an outstanding performance in terms of prudence and financial stability, coupled with the growth that we generate as an operator. So we are satisfied with the rating we received. And yes, we hope that you, as investors, also appreciate this information as positive in terms of our performance. And just last, it's a recap. Early in July, we paid a gross dividend of RON 1.25 per share based on the results of 2023. So just a few words to recap our strategy going forward for 2024, but also for 2025. We believe that we have had a strong performance in the recent quarters, in recent periods, both operationally, but also strategically, in terms of availability of resources or transactions that we could conclude in the market, including the remedies that we received in Spain, including the fact that we were able to sell part of our assets in Spain to abrdn, but also to Macquarie. And based on this, we have an important amount of resources available for our growth and development, which gives us -- puts us in a good position to continue and not lastly, we have the roaming agreement with Telefonica, which puts us in a strong position to develop our operations further. But this also helps us to develop and launch the new services -- the new markets and new services in Portugal and Belgium, as we mentioned earlier in the second part of 2024. So I think the journey was very satisfying until now, but we also expect it to continue to be so in the near future. So with this, I finish the formal presentation, and we invite all of you to ask questions, and I hope we can be helpful.

So we have questions here. I hope I and my colleague, Dan, will be able to answer all of them. The first question is from Maurice, Maurice Patrick. How do the economics of the wholesale mobile and RAN share deal with Telefonica change compared to the prior deal? Do they have a similar or different fixed variable amount? Telefonica implied that in total, it was a similar overall amount. So, yes, it's somewhat difficult to comment. It's a long term, it's 16 -- it's a long-term agreement. It's a 16-year agreement on one hand. Secondly, it's a slightly different agreement, meaning until now, we have enjoyed only MVNO access. From now on, we will use both roaming, but also RAN sharing with the intention -- with the idea that on day 1, we start 100% with national roaming. But as time goes by, that we develop our network, both in partnership with Telefonica using RAN sharing, but also independently. And so -- and in this way, we optimize the total cost that we have. So from this point of view, it is fair and correct to state that initially, these contracts are similar. However, it is difficult to foresee whether the dynamic of this relationship will be the same going forward. And again, we hope that with the CapEx spend that we will use in the future and with rolling out our own mobile network, we will enjoy better OpEx terms or better OpEx costs going forward. So the answer is, I'd say, mixed, but again, I think the dynamic is a bit more complex than just to answer simply, yes, the number is the same or no, the number is different. A second question from Maurice. Do you still expect CapEx of around EUR 650 million for 2024? Well, unfortunately, no. I think the new expectation is around EUR 800 million. As I mentioned before, CapEx amounted to EUR 409 million in the first 6 months. About 1 year ago, we have said to the market that our higher CapEx of 700 -- of roughly EUR 750 million in 2023 was due to accelerated CapEx, but also a new way of financing that CapEx through export credit agencies in mobile segment. We have continued this method also in 2024. And as of Q2, we have signed new financing of approximately EUR 120 million that -- for rolling out 5G networks in Romania -- for continuing rolling out 5G networks in Romania, but also for expanding in Portugal. So due to continuation of both the accelerated CapEx in mobile, but also accelerated payment, which comes with export credit agency agreements, we expect this year's CapEx to be somewhat higher in comparison to 2023 and to amount to EUR 800,000 million -- EUR 800 million, sorry. A question from Ganesh from Barclays. Is your mobile tariff launch in Belgium delayed? Also, how is your fiber network deployment in Belgium progressing? Did you approach for fiber JV rollout in Flanders? Well, we have not delayed our Belgium start. As we announced last year, we have signed an MVNO and national roaming agreement with Proximus. We are in the process to implement this agreement. And as I mentioned, we will launch the mobile services in the second part of the year, in the following months. But I cannot be more specific than that on this call. I think the launch is not very far, both for Belgium and Portugal. By far, I mean, it's a few months away, let's see. But again, we will be more specific when we launch these services. We are developing at this moment, fiber network with our own resources in Belgium. And when we launch our mobile services, we will also launch the fixed services in the areas where our network is complete, is finished. How do you see the Belgium pricing environment? Given the secondary brands in Belgium market are already pricing low, what opportunity do you see in the market? Any color on pricing -- or any color on pricing would be very helpful. Well, we believe that we have a niche, which is not necessarily driven by price. It's driven by high-quality services based on latest technologies, either fiber optic when we speak of fixed services, or 4G, 5G networks when we speak about mobile with generous attractive packages in terms of speed offered to customers, but also -- yes. So -- and of course, these services are priced correctly. So I wouldn't be able to say more. We can't really comment the pricing of the competition. And we believe that regardless, we have an opportunity in all markets where we operate, Belgium included. A question from Piotr Raciborski. What are your CapEx expectations for 2024 and 2025? So for 2024, I did mention already, it's around EUR 800 million. For 2025, it's too early to say for us precisely. What level of total CapEx do you expect to spend on rollout of network in Portugal and Spain? Well, it's a complex question. And the -- what's easier to say, what's easier to reflect upon is that today, our CapEx spend in Spain has a magnitude of EUR 300 million. And today, our CapEx spend in Portugal has a magnitude of EUR 120 million, EUR 150 million. So this is the level of CapEx spend that we have today. But -- and of course, the Spanish market is considerably bigger, and the opportunity to expand this market is longer despite the fact that we are present in that market for a longer time and we developed networks for a longer time. But more than that, it's difficult for us to comment. And also in terms of Portuguese presence, we will certainly spend in the first 5 years in the magnitude of EUR 500 million in that market or more. Can you provide more details on Telekom Romania? This is a question from [ Lora Homsi ]. Can you provide more details on Telekom Romania? What is the purchase price and multiple paid? What is combined market share in mobile? Thanks. Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to comment and disclose more information at this moment. It still remains confidential. We will release this information to the market once the transaction is approved by the Romanian authorities. It is work in progress, and this is as much as I can share at this moment. A question from [ Flavio ]. We know Digi is facing challenges in terms of content licensing, namely getting contracts with the 3 major TV groups in the country. To what extent, did the acquisition of Nowo solve this issue? I think the Nowo acquisition came suddenly in the last 1 month or so. And we have embarked on this transaction for several reasons. On one hand, we are very keen and interested to integrate the mobile spectrum that Nowo acquired back in 2021. We are also keen to integrate the operations of Nowo, helping eventually us to expand our market share and our presence in the market somewhat quicker in comparison to what we did before or to the stand-alone strategy. In terms of discussions with various content licensing partners and operators on the market, these discussions are ongoing in case of Digi, regardless of Nowo, and we hope and we intend to resolve these issues in the coming months before the services are launched. Once again, having Nowo somewhat helps because, indeed, if we do not have this contract, then Nowo has the contract, but these are separate work streams for us so far. And I hope this answer is -- and the description is helpful to you. A question from Nora Nagy. Actually, 3 questions. First, what is your CapEx outlook for the full year 2024? We did mention it, it's EUR 800 million. Are you planning to use the EUR 150 million term loan for Nowo acquisition in case the deal will be approved? So this is something we are still considering. We have not decided. This is certainly one of the options. Can you share the purchase price for Telekom Romania, please? Yes. So we touched upon this. It remains confidential until now, and we will come back to the market once the transaction is approved by the Romanian authorities. Are you going to offer a paid TV service right from the start? Are you postponing this ambition to a later date? It's a question from [ Flavio ], and I think he refers to Portugal, he continues to refer to Portugal. Yes, we are intending to start all services from the very beginning. We are intending to start TV services, broadband services, but also mobile services. So, one more question from [ Flavio ]. Who is Digi supplier of 5G network equipment in Portugal? Are you using any Huawei equipment? No, we are not using Huawei equipment or other Chinese equipment. Our mobile vendors in Portugal are exclusively Ericsson and Nokia. A question from Piotr Raciborski. When do you expect Digi to return to average industry CapEx sales level? Well, Piotr, it's -- to be honest, I don't know. But maybe on -- sorry, on a different note to mention, I understand that maybe we are not comparable to the rest of the industry or to many other operators. But we believe that there is something unique about Digi. It's the fact that we have the opportunities, and we exploit these opportunities, the growth opportunities, I mean, heavily. So from this point of view, I think we have lived through this pressure to grow and intention to grow since I'm with this company, but certainly also before, so in the last 30 years. And I sincerely hope it will last as long as it can. So yes, maybe we will not generate 50% CapEx to sales ratio going forward, but we certainly want to have the opportunity to grow, and we want to address it as much as we can ourselves and not -- yes, ourselves, sorry. Yes, a question from [ Emil ]. Congratulations on the results. Thank you. And congratulations on the M&A. Thank you, second time. Thank you very much. However, the last purchase from Portugal seems that a rather high price compared to what you used to. If you can, please detail what led to the payment of such a high price? I'm not sure. I think the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So -- and I think these appreciations are subjective. The Nowo transaction is important strategically to us. We wanted very much to consolidate the mobile frequency, the spectrum that Nowo acquired competitively in 2021. And as I said, secondly -- so secondly, we're also integrating an existing broadband and cable operation, and -- which is very much aligned with what we intend to do. Of course, Nowo has an HFC network, which will have to be replaced by our fiber optic network, but we believe that this all is a very synergistic operation and it is helpful for our strategy going forward. So I would disagree that -- I would disagree that the price is rather high to what we're used to. Also a question -- again, a question from [ Flavio ]. Can you provide more details on your pricing strategy in Portugal? Well, we refused to answer precisely this question in the past, and we continue doing so. But once again, we just do not want to preempt the proper launch, which will happen in the following months, as we said. In any case, we sincerely want to offer very attractive prices in Portugal, both for mobile users and for fixed line users. But I think we will be more precise and -- once we launch, and it will come soon. A question from [ Oliver Berg ]. How much CapEx are you expecting to invest in building out the Spanish mobile network in coming years? Will you focus just on urban areas or nationwide? It's a good question. I will not be very precise. We're interested on the whole country coverage. However, once again, we operate in the context of remedies with limited amount of spectrum, but also in the context of most likely or potentially or expected long-term deal with Telefonica. I use this conditional language because the transaction still requires approvals by the authorities. We have not received all the approvals as of now. This is work in process, and we expect it to complete in the coming months. So once it is complete, we will decide. But in any case, it will be a mix of RAN sharing, spectrum sharing and our own network. But this mix has not been decided. But in any case, we're interested to operate nationwide. A question from [ Emil ]. What can you tell us about testing the fixed Internet market in Turin? Is it as expected? Will it continue in other cities in Italy? Well, we did mention this. We are continuing to roll out the network -- we continue to roll out the network in Italy. It has not generated significant results until now. And yes, I think it's a valid question. We will concentrate a lot more resources on all other markets, Portugal, Belgium, Spain included in the coming future. Dan Grillo. Can you comment some more on the competitive dynamics in Spain? How do you see this developing? Well, I think it's a difficult question. And a lot of transformations have happened recently, including the Orange-Masmovil merger, including the Vodafone sale to Zegona, but also us being able to agree with Telefonica, a 16-year national roaming deal and RAN sharing and spectrum sharing deal in Spain. So I think the market -- it is correct to say that the market is more consolidated now than a year ago. And probably the market is more decided on its standing and its position in the future. Having said this, we operate as usual now in 2024, very similar to 2023, but also to 2022. You can see this from the results, you can see from the dynamic. And we sincerely hope that little will change from this perspective going forward. So I'd say the answer is yes and no. A question from [ John ]. Can you elaborate on the progress of negotiations for a national roaming agreement in Portugal? If no agreement is reached before launch, how robust and wide do you expect Digi's mobile coverage to be in Portugal? Thank you. Well, it's a fair point. We wish we had also a national roaming agreement. Unfortunately, the offers we received from the incumbent operators were not satisfactory. If we are able to achieve roaming or agree roaming, this is something we're still keen and interested to do. In any case, and I come back again to the previous discussions we used to have on this conference call, the main scenario is to go on with our own network, and we believe our own network covers well enough the entire population of Portugal. And we are very busy in the last stages to launch these services later this year. So while it's difficult to answer precisely to your question, in general, we will launch certainly without the roaming as well. If roaming would be available, we are keen to operate with roaming as well. What will the group net debt ratio be, and if and after all upcoming transactions, Telekom Romania, Nowo, authorized? Thank you. So I think it's a valid question. It's a good question. What is missing from the list, it's the sale of network to Macquarie. And these 2 have offsetting nature. Basically, the Macquarie transaction decreases the leverage to 2 and below 2x. Telekom Romania and Nowo are increasing the leverage. However, we expect still to remain in the 2.5x area. A question from [ Emil ]. In the presentation, the Dutch flag appears, the Netherlands, and in the same annual report, you referred to the Netherlands. Does this mean that you have entered the Dutch market? No, no. It's a confusion. Our Digi Communications N.V. is a Dutch company. It's our Dutch coding company. However, we never had, and we are not in the process of establishing commercial operations in Netherlands at this moment. So the flag just refers to our domicile in the Netherlands. A question from Russell Waller. What multiple of EV/EBITDA and EV/FCF is the Nowo acquisition, please? We -- I think the valuation -- so I will not comment on the numbers, excuse me. Once we close the transaction, once we publish the results, I think it will be clear from the financials. But once again, to analyze this acquisition, you rather have to apply some of the [ parts ] approach, because the company has a clear asset, which is the mobile frequency, and we value it separately and then we have the operations. How does the Spanish fiber sale reduce leverage to 2x? What is the impact to net debt and EBITDA, please? Well, it just does so. I mean, when we sell the assets, we will have a lot of cash on our balance sheet. Yes, I'm not sure I understand the question otherwise. A question from [ Ovidio ]. If you acquire Telekom, it will remain a stand-alone provider in the Romanian mobile market. If so, how the price policy will change? Well, I will abstain from commenting. So this is work in process involving the approval and the authorities. And I think the exact acquisition structure, the price, but also the final strategy will be decided once the process is finished, once the process is complete. A question from Andrew Webb. Can you outline the Portuguese FTTH roll out so far? Are we thinking about a fixed line launch -- fixed line at launch? Are you looking for wholesale agreements? Do we plan to roll out fixed line infrastructure broadly in the market? Yes, we intend to launch services. We intend to start services in most areas of Portugal, in the main cities of Portugal on our own network. We are open to also use wholesale infrastructure provided by other operators. However, we have not signed these agreements so far. We will come back with more precise numbers in terms of coverage as we approach the launch. Can you help us with the timeline for the Macquarie [ Fiberco ] proceeds in Spain? Is it reasonable to assume proceeds will follow the lines delivered, for example, 425 million of the 6.6 million delivered in September? Yes, it is reasonable. I don't have -- sorry, so we expect closing to take place in September. We expect closing to follow the intended announcement. So at least 4.25 million out of 6 million homes to be delivered in September. And as a matter of fact, I think the number is somewhat higher because time has passed since the contract was signed early in April. And in the meantime, we have more homes passed to sell. So I think all is as expected from this point of view. Are you seeing any changes in the Spanish fixed market following some ownership changes? It sounds like some of the larger players are focused on lower-end fixed line share with new offers, including TV content. Well, difficult for me to comment. I think the Spanish market was, and continues to be, very competitive, but also innovative. As I mentioned earlier, we have a good growth dynamic and we want to continue it -- we want to continue to be so. Coming back to the mention of TV services, we're also keen to launch TV services in the near future in the Spanish market. A question from Maurice Patrick. How many homes have you passed in Spain with the fiber networks? I think it was 9 million at the first quarter. I think so as well. And I think that in the meantime, we have passed more than 10 million homes passed. Of course, part of it will be sold to Macquarie, but ultimately available to us on a wholesale basis fully. I hope it's helpful. Question from [ Claudio ]. Portuguese customers are usually binded to the operators for 2 years. What are your targets in terms of clients and revenue? And will you provide competitive offers with lower binding periods? We will -- so I think this is too detailed for me to answer now. We hope that our offers will be attractive so that other customers will be incentivized or keen to move to our services. Whether we will bind other customers with closed contracts and closed terms, I'm not so sure. Usually, this is not our strategy. Our strategy is to offer fair services for good prices, allowing our customers to enjoy good services. So this is not our intention. So a question from [ John ]. Have you reached any wholesale or FTTH network sharing agreement with other operators in Portugal? No, not at the moment. So at the moment, we are developing our own network, and we have acquired Nowo, which operates an HFC network, but also has an FTTH network of its own. So -- and -- but we do not have wholesale agreements as of now. And how many homes do you expect to have covered nationwide? So as I mentioned, we are not disclosing these numbers now, but we will do so close to launch. A question from Maurice. Can you please comment on the impact on EBITDA from the Spain fiber sale to Macquarie? Yes. Well, yes, there will be an impact on EBITDA because we will rent the network. And going forward, these costs will stabilize at EUR 50 million to EUR 70 million per year. However, we are not referring to the first year of operations. A question from [ Oliver Berg ] on funding. Adding together your high CapEx, the EUR 120 million being spent on Spanish spectrum, EUR 150 million on Nowo and however much you spend on Telekom Romania, there are a lot of cash outflows there and [indiscernible] that the fiber sale has covered the 2025 bond maturity, but how do you intend to finance all of these transactions? Would you consider raising additional bonds? Or will this all be via bank facilities? Well, starting with the end, we are not working or we are not considering bonds for the moment. However, we remain fully open, and we may come back to the market later in 2025, '26 or '27 whenever we see this is reasonable. But once again, this is not our focus at the moment. However, coming to the first part of the question, I think a couple of corrections are needed to be made. Well, the assumptions are very correct. So we will spend EUR 120 million on Spanish spectrum. However, it will be paid in installments. So it will not be paid neither in 2024, nor in 2025. It will be paid in installments over the next 4 years. The Nowo acquisition will be paid on spot after clearance from the Portuguese authority. And Telekom as well, but we will have to come back with more information on this once the transaction is clear. Speaking of the cash flows, in general, the Macquarie transaction is not covering the 2025 bonds. The Macquarie transaction is -- will be used to repay a part of outstanding maturities of our Spanish subsidiary. And it will also be used to repay a part of the intercompany loan that Spain owes to the Romanian mother company. But beyond that -- and a bigger portion of the sale will be retained by our colleagues in Spain for their CapEx plans. And speaking of 2025 bond maturity in particular, we are repaying it using our cash on balance sheet, our existing undrawn facilities. And this is it. So basically, we're not using Macquarie as a means to repay bond. A question from Dan. You said that the last transactions, Nowo, Macquarie and Telekom, have offsetting nature. We know Nowo is EUR 150 million and Macquarie is plus EUR 750 million. Can we assume that Telekom Romania is around EUR 500 million to give us 2.5x leverage? Certainly not. Certainly not. However, we will not comment on the price otherwise. So a question from [ Sara Ribeiro ]. So a question, whether offers in Portugal will not have a loyalty period? Once again, it's probably too early on to ask for this now at this moment, although I think the launch is due in a couple of months, but this will not be our focus. So our focus will be to convince or to engage our customers, offering them high-quality services and attractive pricing. So there's a moment of silence. We have run out of questions so far. We'll wait on the line looking for more. Well, thank you very much. I think it's been very engaging, entertaining. Thank you for the quality of the questions. We hope you enjoyed our results, but also the discussion. And we look forward to see you all later in November when we will be discussing the third quarter results and the progress of our projects, strategy and initiatives that we are engaged in to. Once again, thank you very much, and a very good end of summer to all of you and especially to those who did not have a vacation yet. Bye.