Dilip Buildcon Limited (DBL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Moderator for the conference call. Welcome to Q1 FY '22 earnings conference call of Dilip Buildcon hosted by Axis Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Jiten Rushi. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Monica. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Axis Capital, I would welcome everyone for the earnings conference call for the first quarter fiscal '22 of Dilip Buildcon. From the management, we have with us Mr. Devendra Jain, Executive Director and CEO; Mr. Rohan Suryavanshi, Head of Strategy and Planning; and Mr. Radhey Shyam Garg, Chief Financial Officer and the Investor Relations from S-Ancial. We thank the management for giving us this opportunity. I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Rohan Suryavanshi for his opening remarks, followed by question-and-answer session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Jitenji. Good evening to all. Thank you for joining us today. We hope you are doing well and staying safe in these times. I'll also want to thank for the Saturday and a long weekend. So I appreciate all of you who took out time to attend this. I also along with the whole DBL family would like to welcome all our investors and partners to this conference call for the quarter ending June 30, 2021. It is my great pleasure, as always, and honor to be able to host this call and to update all our partners of the important milestones we've achieved in this quarter and our plans for the year going forward. Let me first start with how the quarter panned out. Obviously, all of us were caught unaware with the second wave of COVID. In terms of cases and mortality, the second wave was far more severe than the first wave. And which put additional pressure on the healthcare system and eventually resulted in lockdowns. I don't think that there was any family this time, which did not see the impact of COVID. All of us experienced it very close. The number of deaths has been unimaginable and unprecedented. Even the pickup that the economy had seen in the second half of FY '21, slowed down once again in this quarter. While there were no national lockdowns, there were regional lockdowns, to allow the businesses to continue with some degree and to keep the economy afloat. But even within those lockdowns, there were a lot of challenges for all businesses, especially the smaller businesses. The loss of life that this COVID caused, a lot of disruption, obviously, for businesses to function normally. Even at DBL, we lost a few of our colleagues. And it's not just the loss of human life, but it is also the fact that a lot of these colleagues were very young, that it caused a debilitating effect on employee morale, and which led to 25% to 30% of our employees going back to their homes in the second wave. Obviously, this impacted operations, as one may imagine. However, we were on top of things, and we tried to get all our employees back. As of now, employees are back, but obviously, we are now in the middle of monsoons. So that has its own effect. Also, while the second wave seems to have subsided right now, but fears about a future wave persist. However, we feel that the economic impact in future quarters will be much more limited and minimal now that vaccination programs are fully operational and are being pushed out very aggressively by the government. Well, under all of these extraordinary circumstances, we've advanced a path of sustainable growth on the back of a positive change in culture, more significant purposes in our employees and a strong focus on our performance, trying to make sure that whatever we can do in this situation, we try and do and deliver. Our purpose has stayed strong despite all the challenges in this current environment, while we are far away from ideal. But I think in these times, ensuring that the people who work with us are motivated and working hard and ensuring whatever is that within their capability was the first and foremost thing, along with ensuring the safety of their families and themselves. Moving on, let me talk about the industry overview. Due to COVID-19, obviously, awarding activity remained low in quarter 1, especially in April and May. And that's usually the case after a quarter 4, but COVID obviously impacted it. But having said that, NHAI's pipeline is supposed to be very robust this year. Every commentary that they have given, it was indicated that they want to award about INR 2 lakh crores plus of orders. So we expect the awarding activity will continue picking up. And again, will follow similar trend where a bulk of our orders come in the second half of the financial year. In terms of road construction, April and May road construction averaged 25 kilometers a day, up from 14 kilometers day from the previous year. From April to June, the highway construction was about 2,824 4 kilometer, which is up 24% compared to last year. MoRTH has constructed 1,470 kilometers of national highways in April and May. So overall, it's better than the industry than it had happened last year. This is also because a lot of orders which are awarded were coming online. So I think that also helped the order book, the construction base to go in that line. Regarding the company's performance, like I mentioned, our first priority was to carefully navigate the COVID situation and the problems that it brought. And to ensure that our employees are safe and secure, ensuring that also work happens, keeping in mind all the protocols that needed to be followed. Like I mentioned, the ordering of new projects was hindered by [ pertinent ] attendance in government offices. But we're now expecting the ordering, like I said, to go forward. We also had an incident at one of our sites, which caused temporary suspension from bidding for the company, and we will explain that more in detail over the Q&A, and I'll request our CEO to explain more about that. Besides that, let me hand over to our CFO, Mr. Garg, to give you an update on the important financial milestones of this year. I hand it over to him.

Good evening, everyone. I welcome all our partners to our quarter call. Let me start by saying that this was an exceptional quarter with very unpredictable lockdowns and early as well as high rainfalls, mainly in few of our project areas. But even in that tough backdrop, company has performed exceptionally well and not allowed revenue to fall substantially. This has been possible because of our model of complete ownership. With this caveat, let me present the results for the quarter Q1 FY '22. Our revenue increased by 14% on Y-o-Y basis, amid COVID challenges and cycles. EBITDA decreased by about 4% in Q1, mainly due to decrease in revenue as we have planned revenue in the range of INR 2,900 crore to INR 3,000 crore for this quarter. As you know that quarter 4 and quarter 1 generally have similar top line. We expected about INR 2,900 crore to INR 3,000 crore revenue in this quarter. And against that, we could do only INR 2,100 crore. This resulted in under-recovery of our fixed overheads. The time extension on [indiscernible] projects on account of COVID, we also incurred additional fixed costs, manpower, rent, et cetera, during extended period of time. There is no bonus, which was earned during the quarter and no further bonus will be recognized during the remaining period of financial year. Also increase in material prices like cement, betterment, diesel, steel aggregates also impacted the EBITDA margin. Increased price of these materials goes to an extent of 50% to 60%. Part of it -- sorry, 50% to 60% of it could be passed through the escalation clause, remaining has to be absorbed in our EBITDA margin. Profit after tax decreased by about 32%, mainly because of reduction -- decreased EBITDA and increased amount of tax. Now let me take you through some important items of the standalone balance sheet. Inventory has increased by about INR 260 crore in absolute term. This increase is mainly attributable to the material price increase. And inventories remained, quantity-wise, remain at the same level as of March '21 in terms of all these materials. Increase in loans given and investment is mainly on account of investment in SPVs for HAM projects. Net debt-to-equity ratio decreased 2.76 in Q1 compared to 0.79 in Q4 of '21. However, there is increase in debt in absolute number on account of increase in working capital. Increase in noncurrent liabilities on account of increase in noncurrent portion of mobilization advance. Increase in other financial liabilities on account of increase in current maturities of long-term borrowings. Increase in other current liabilities is on account of increase in current portion of mobilization advance. Now I will take you through some other financial numbers. The cash generated from operation activity is negative to an extent of over INR 525 crores as compared to negative of about INR 200 crores in Q1 last year. This is mainly because of reduction impact and also increase in working capital. However, working capital days has increased to 100 days as of June 30, '21, from 82 days as on March 31, 2021. Now we can open the floor for question and answer. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question from Mr. Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Market Private Limited.

Yes. I have a couple of questions. Starting with this quarter, as you mentioned, our EBITDA margin is at a kind of a decade lowest number, primarily as you mentioned, the rise in the input cost and the un-absorption of fixed cost. So now how do we see it in terms of the margin? Can we also see the same impact is going for the second quarter also and for the full year? Some breakup in terms of how much it is because of the input in the material cost, cement and steel, how much is because of the extra cost that we incur for the COVID? Whatever extra explanation you can provide, that would be helpful.

So Shravanji, to answer your question, so the EBITDA margin guidance [indiscernible] despite asking for the rest of the financial year. So in the Q2, you will see the EBITDA margin profile similar to Q1 because this is, again, this quarter is impacted by the rain. And we will see in the full quarter, the EBITDA margin will be in the range of 15%, 15.5%. So it will be in that range. As far as EBITDA margin is concerned, this will that number. And likely, you'll have also noticed that our EBITDA margin has decreased by around 2.5%. It is generally in the range of 16%. So what is the reason is that what has been mentioned, by the increase in material prices and second is the recovery of fixed overhead. So 2%, 2.5% put together is the margin is impacted by the -- these things put together. It is slightly difficult to, I forget these numbers into these 2 category. Okay. So this is the reason. And also, we are not going to earn any bonus. We have not had any bonus in this quarter, and we are also not going to earn any bonus in the remaining quarter because all projects got the extension of time due to the COVID-19. So it has impacted our margin to that extent also because as you will see in the earlier quarters, in the earlier years, we were earning the margin of in the range of 17% to 18% total margin to that extent of 1.5% to 2% is impacted by this also.

Secondly, sir, on the gross debt front. So on Q-o-Q front, absolute gross debt has increased by INR 298 crore. This is in the 2 context, first, we have raised INR 500 crore post reducing the INR 9 crore expenses -- for the expenses. So we raised INR 500 crore liquidity in April. And despite that, our gross debt has increased and we were expecting the gross debt to decline by INR 500 odd crore. So where -- and even I am not able to see the increase in the cash of balance also. So where the money has gone?

Yes. So you rightly pointed out. So INR 500 crores from the QIP and INR 300 crores, approximately, the debt increases there, so approximately INR 800 crore cash generated from these 2 heads. So the utilization has been met. So answer to your question precisely is that we have made the investment in our HAM project to the extent of the INR 200 crores, approximately INR 200 crores. The second utilization is that there is increase in the inventory approximately by INR 270 million, INR 280 crore. The inventory has increased, if you are aware that in the absolute terms in the quantity, that remains the same. But due to the increase in the material prices, moving prices, moving average prices of the material has gone up like cement, steel and bitumen and then aggregate. So it has impacted the inventory and we have to incur the extra cost for the inventory holding. Then there is -- because it goes by the Q4 metric, so that is why there is increase in the weighted average price. Now there is also increase in the debtors by around INR 170 crore to INR 180 crore. So this increase in the debtor is mainly there is -- there was not much delay, but 4, 5 days delay, that is why this is appearing here. And there is also a decrease in the creditors by around INR 100 crore. So this put together, and there is another one aspect in the other current affairs, there is increase. So we could mainly on account of unutilized GST input credit to the extent of INR 120 crores. So this put together is impacting our QIP utilization? And the second thing, it is increasing the debt number, put together around INR 800 crores. So I think I have explained your question.

So for the full year, previously, in the last quarter, we were expecting INR 500 crores decline by end of FY '22. So now what is the stand?

So to answer your question, there will be a decrease of around INR 800 crores from the level of the June number minimum and the INR 500 crores from the March level number. So there will be decrease of course at the year-end.

Second, 2 questions, particularly for, is the acquisition of DBL Infra Assets for INR 2 crores. Not able to understand what's the purpose and why we paid to the promoters INR 2 crore to acquire? And what's the benefit? And what's the logic? I'm not able to understand.

Currently, first of all, this was a group company within the group actually held by the promoters and company already had a cash balance of INR 2 crores. So that is the reason. It has been acquired for a consideration of INR 2 crores, which is equivalent to the cash balance, which was there in the company. And the reason why we have acquired is that like we are doing so many HAM projects and going forward because today, the entire investment in our projects is sitting in the books of DBL. And going forward, we are trying to create an investment vehicle through which we would be channelizing our investments because, as you know, we are also churning our investments periodically. So what would happen is that this investment vehicle is going to see a growth in the times to come because it will also receive the sale consideration and also fresh equity investments would be made out of this particular vehicle. So for that limited purpose only, this acquisition was done.

So previously, DBL was owning anything in this DBL Infra Assets?

No, no, no, no. It was not owning anything. It was owned completely by our promoters and INR 2 crores, as I said, INR 2 crores was lying in this particular company. So in view of that, DBL has purchased this company.

So -- but we could have gone and we could have created a new company or don't you think that would have a lesser cost and would be a better cost save. So to be...

Currently there is no costing involved. Please understand [Foreign Language] for a similar cash consideration it has been purchased. So there's no costing involved for the company as such.

No, costing, I understand. So to be put it simple way. So today if I have INR 1 crore, will you pay me INR 1 crore and take my company, but it should have some interest that DBL should be having to. That's what I'm not able to understand.

Now it has become 100% and future investments we will be channelizing from this company. So whatever cash DBL has invested to acquire this, that will ultimately get utilized for meeting the future investments.

Sir, last question is on the girder fall. So there are 2 aspects caused. I understand whatever the negligence was there, definitely, we would have taken steps that these incidents will not happen again. So there are 2 things. First is the NHAI has writing -- in writing, given a ban on 12th of July. But we have informed to the exchanges on the 14 July only. Why so much delay, the 2 days delay? First question. Second, we were expecting the outcome to come and we will be -- now will be out of ban in 2 to 3 weeks, so already 1 month has passed, today is 14 August. So what is the status now? So are we not still in the ban period, we are not able to bid? And when ban will be removed?

Shravanji [Foreign Language] we got the letter on the same day [Foreign Language] standard operating process [Foreign Language] committee of 6 members [Foreign Language] 3 aspects [Foreign Language] one is the design aspect, second is the construction aspect and third is the methodology adopted in the [Foreign Language] design in okay, quality is okay. There was some negligence in the block placing. [Foreign Language] due to the very much traffic density [Foreign Language] we have done more than 25,000 [Foreign Language] are construction Bangalore [Foreign Language] we got the show cause notice [Foreign Language].

The next question is from Mr. [ Kitha Raman ] from Spark Capital.

Sir, my first question is with respect to the NHAI bidding that is happening. The projects that are awarded, the number of days of construction has come down in many of the projects that we see. So how confident or, I mean, are you billing this bonus going forward into the years?

[Foreign Language] illogically time line reduce [Foreign Language] irrespective of [Foreign Language] complexity [Foreign Language] particular area [Foreign Language] rainfall [Foreign Language] irrespective of any anything, NHAI [Foreign Language] abruptly [Foreign Language] 24 months [Foreign Language] 18 months [Foreign Language] DBL [Foreign Language] time period [Foreign Language] bonus is quite impossible now.

So going forward, it is going to become more and more difficult. That's what I can infer from this.

Difficult in the sense [Foreign Language] minimum time period [Foreign Language] INR 1,000 crore project [Foreign Language] INR 500 crore structure [Foreign Language] INR 600 crore [Foreign Language] INR 200 crore. [Foreign Language] complexity, plus [Foreign Language] you can design [Foreign Language].

The next question is, what is the bid pipeline that you foresee for the next year or in the next few quarters from NHAI?

Bid pipeline [Foreign Language] opening remark [Foreign Language] we are expecting [Foreign Language].

This INR 2 lakh crore is for the next 3 quarters. What is the equity infusion that you foresee for the FY '22 and '23 in HAM project?

Total equity infusion is around INR 700 crores. So out of which we have already invested close to INR 180 crores. So the balance equity contribution will take place during the financial year '22 in a phased manner. And mostly it would happen in like Q3 because a couple of the projects, 5, 6 projects, which were awarded to us in Q4. So we will be receiving the appointed date for them by Q4 -- by Q3 and Q4.

The total is INR 700 crores for this particular year?

Yes, yes.

The next question from Mr. Rohit Natarajan from Antique Stockbroking.

So sir, now that you are already 4 to 5 months of this fiscal, what could be the revenue guidance? Any remarks that you would have on what the execution would look like in FY '22?

Around INR 10,000 crore to the INR 10,500 crore revenue, we are expecting this year.

Sir, second question, [Foreign Language] order inflow [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language] around 50% project [Foreign Language] 50% from our other sector like mining, dams and tunnel. [Foreign Language] most of the project we are expecting from the road sector, in Q3 and Q4.

[Foreign Language] for FY '23? [Foreign Language]?

Sir, [Foreign Language] let I'll just clarify. [Foreign Language] already we have a deal signed with Cube Highways for 5 projects. So that deal is going to get matured in the current financial year itself because 3 projects would be completed by end of October and the remaining 2 by end of the March. So upon completion of projects, the consideration would start kicking in. So roughly, we are expecting INR 550 crore to INR 600-odd crores of consideration coming in from Cube highways. And apart from that, we have 7 more projects which were bidded out in 2018. And those would also be, out of those also, 4 projects would be getting completed in this fiscal itself. So we have not signed any deal as yet for the remaining 4 projects because that was a conscious call the company took because of the steep decline in the bank rate because that has a significant bidding the valuation of the assets. So the idea is that like once the projects achieve the COD, then it would be the prudent time that we do all the kinds of financial engineering, including the refinancing of the debt to target and achieve further fair valuation of those assets at that point of time. And also once the construction risk is over, you also try to get a better discounting rate. So towards the end of the financial year, we will see the monetization of the remaining 4 assets and the consideration coming there from.

And sir, finally, on the -- my question is, we had some INR 2.4 billion MAT credit available. What exactly is the situation of that MAT credit now? And when will our tax rate normalize to maybe from the current high reported levels?

Sir, can you repeat the question, please?

The MAT credit. What is the outstanding MAT credit?

Outstanding MAT credit is INR 227 crore. INR 13 decrease, INR 13 crore has been utilized in the quarter 1.

And you expect this to be exhausted over next one year? Is that the time line?

No, this will be -- this will fall over in the next year also.

The next question is from Mr. [ Vineet Bora ] from DAM Capital.

[Foreign Language] question regarding the equity investment, the source of equity investments. So [Foreign Language] our debt has increased from INR 600 crore to INR 820 crore despite of QIP and cash generated from operations is negative INR 500 crores. So the source of these equity investments of INR 700 crores for this year, is the monetization Cube Highways a source? Or how do we look at it?

Yes. So we have rightly picked up. So out of this INR 700 crores, like INR 200 crores, as we mentioned, that has already been invested. So the remaining equity requirement is limited to INR 500 crores. And as I mentioned [Foreign Language] this INR 500 crores is back to back tied up with the consideration, which we are expecting from the Cube Highways. So that way, the equity requirement for this fiscal year is fully tied up. So we don't have any other dependent -- any dependency on any other alternate source.

And sir, next question was regarding the tax rate. So it has gone up to 44% this quarter. So even after utilization of MAT credit [Foreign Language] gone high. So is there any specific reason for this?

So [ Vineetji ], first thing to just note down here that MAT credit utilization doesn't pass-through the P&L, first to explain this. Second thing that tax rate has gone up, if you will see, there is one item on the tax for [ upgrader ] that is around INR 3 crore. So this is on account assessment of one of our -- one of your incomes tax assessment happen for one of over a year. So that is why this has gone up. Otherwise, it will be in the range of 35% to 36% only.

The next question is from Mr. Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Congratulation on a decent performance, given the very challenging environment. Sir, my question is pertaining to the fact that the NHAI has banned us from participating the bid, right, for some time. I'm just trying to figure out how does it affect us? Does it mean that we'll not be eligible to participate in any bid or submission of any bid during this period? Or is it that any bid that gets open, will not qualify?

So sir, right now, when this ban comes, obviously, we are not allowed to participate any bid. And anyways, we have not put any bids right now because we are not looking to bid at this point of time. So that situation, which you mentioned that if we had already participated and our bid would disqualify will not happen purely because we were anyways not bidding at this point of time. But had that been the case, that would be true, we would not -- we would be disqualified on -- because of this -- because of this limitation and ban -- temporary ban that we have. But like Devendrabhaiya explained, we expect that to clear out soon. So as -- when that happens, we will come back to the market and explain -- share that things.

So last year, sir, we had a lot of -- a lot of order win from various other sectors. While the past 5, 6 months, of course, I do understand that there has been a toll in awarding activity, but there's hardly any order. So yes, so what is the reason behind very, very muted order inflow? And how do you see the ending? How do you see this order inflow panning out for the entire FY '22? Is there any guidance that you can provide on the order inflow?

Sure. Sir [Foreign Language] if you look at the last 3, 4, 5 years, the same trend has followed that quarter 3 and quarter 4 is always heavy ordering and then quarter 1 and quarter 2 has low amount of ordering. Even if you look at our bidding winning, barring last year, it was usually tilted towards quarter 3 and quarter 4. Now because last year we won a fair amount of orders, right now we were not looking to bid anything currently. Also, let me explain how the ordering, bidding happens on our side. Whenever we see one of our orders getting completed over, like, let's say, there is a road project, which is getting completed 9 months down the line. That is when we're looking at putting a bid for a new project because it will take 3 months for that order from bidding to actual opening to happen. And after that, 3 to 4 months. And after that it takes 4 to 5 months for that project to really start. In those first 4, 5 -- 4 to 6 you're essentially doing site preparation, getting all the clearances and all of that. So our main equipment deployment also comes after 4 to 6 months. So as this project will get completed after 9 months, the second order, the new project will start taking our equipments and hence that cycle continues. Now if you are not looking to invest in additional equipment right now, which is what we have mentioned earlier as well, then we do not envisage or taking additional orders because additional orders beyond our capability right now will lead to capital expenditure that will have to do in equipment. Hence, there is a whole cycle that goes into play. And right now, that's why we're not looking to bid anyway. So we will bid in the quarter 3 and quarter 4, you will see us bidding. But right now, as of now, we were not looking to bid. And the mix of the orders, like Devendrabhaiya already explained, it will be tilted slightly in favor of growth. But to give you an exact mix would not be possible for us. Also, we would not be sharing our bidding strategy in totality with you, but we can give you some indication that we are looking at orders across the sectors that we're working with. However, roads is something that given the large pipeline that's also coming and already that we have enough diversity. We will look at balancing and seeing how we want to look at our order book going forward.

Sir, lastly, given that the first quarter has gone and actually gone away. Is it possible to give some guidance for FY '22 revenues and EBITDA margin? Do you see a very sharp correction in EBITDA margins compared to FY '21, given the rise in input inflation?

Sir, guidance, again, also, we gave early that we are expecting about INR 10,000 crore to INR 10,500 crores of revenue in this year. And the EBITDA guidance is about 15% to 15.5% for the full final year. Obviously, for the first 2 quarters, it's going to be muted. First quarter, we've already seen it was muted because of the reasons that we've already explained, underutilization cost -- overall cost increases of raw materials, all of those things that we've explained. But as more and more projects, and as the revenue ramps up in quarter 3 and quarter 4 and are you -- assets are able to utilize fully, we expect the EBITDA profile to change. And hence, that full year thing will go better. Also like we mentioned earlier, that this will also eventually end of the year, we are expecting the debt profile to come down by about INR 800 crores from the current level.

The next question from Mr. Manish Goyal from ENAM Holdings Private Limited.

Yes. Just on the divestment of road assets, I would like to clarify that earlier we had targeted inflows of INR 2,000 crores over a period of 2 years. And the recent presentation is mentioning about INR 2,500 crores. So I just would like to know this incremental INR 500 crores in FY '23 is coming from where?

Yes. Mostly, this is -- this guidance is coming from the very fact that like recently, what we have seen is that the post-completion, what kind of value appreciation is taking place. And of late, like, you must be aware like Shrem is coming up with their own elevate. And we have seen a huge upside in terms of the valuation also or one side [ fix-up lift ] to the elevate. And also we have been having discussions with the prospective investors in that particular line. So with regard to that only we have given that guidance. This could be the expected increase in the overall valuation of this portfolio.

And you were also mentioning, I mean, on that -- about the balance 7 to 9 projects. You mentioned that 3 projects will get completed in FY '22. Am I right?

So the 4 projects are getting completed in FY '22 and other 3 in early FY '23.

So you are saying that for these 4 projects, we will evaluate deal only after achieving the COD?

Yes. So [Foreign Language] we are working up on the deal. And also, as I mentioned [Foreign Language] because couple of projects would be achieving COD in Q3 itself. So we are also working on, as I mentioned, on the various financial engineering because today the interest rates are lowest in the market, historically lowest. So all those benefits we are trying to do by way of financial engineering to get or to maximize the value, to overcome the valuation erosion, whatever has taken place because of the decline in the bank rate. So that is the opportune time, which we see that we have also discussed with the prospective investors. That would be the time when we would be basically striking a deal with them.

So that already factors another INR 400-odd crores coming from these 4 HAM projects?

Correct.

In the current year?

Correct.

And on order inflow number, like if you can quantify what is our expectation, a range would be equal for the current year?

INR 10,000 crore to INR 12,000 crore order inflow starting from this year. [Foreign Language].

The next question is from Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.

Sir, my question was also on the -- are we targeting now, moving forward, larger ticket size projects because of the competition we see in the projects of less than INR 1,000 crores, and looking at the size of our company, to avoid this competition and maintain better margins? Are we looking for a project of ticket size of above INR 1,500 crore or INR 2,000 crore? That is something which we are looking at and we'll be doing it going forward? How is the strategy for this?

Jitenji [Foreign Language] that is INR 4,000 crore plus highway. So ticket size and the qualification will ever be a criteria for the DBL [Foreign Language]. And to mitigate the competition, naturally [Foreign Language].

So what I can understand is we'll be targeting bigger ticket size and the number of projects will come down going forward. That is something which we'll do it consciously, right, sir?

Absolutely, yes.

And sir, and on the water pipeline projects, so we see a lot of water pipeline distribution in Jal Jeevan Mission coming up now. So do we plan to participate in this project? Or how are we placed?

[Foreign Language] water supply [Foreign Language].

Sir, this year, we don't see any non-road inflows, as you said in the opening remarks, right, sir?

This is the -- this is not confirmed statement. [Foreign Language].