Docebo Inc. (DCBO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Audio Gap] to Docebo's Learning Suite Investor Webinar. Before we begin, Docebo would like to remind listeners that certain information discussed today may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking information reflects the company's current views with respect to future events. Any such information is subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. For more information on the risks, uncertainties and assumptions relating to the forward-looking statements, please refer to Docebo's public filings, which are available on SEDAR and EDGAR. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Docebo's CEO, Claudio Erba.

So good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on this call. With me today, there is Alessio, our newly appointed President and CRO; and Ian Kidson, which you both know. We launched Docebo Learning Suite last month. It was a moment that was year in the making. Our vision for Docebo has always been centered around solving enterprise learning challenges with technology. This journey began with LMS and we're going to call the multiple points across the entire learning life cycle. The format for today is to play a short video that gives you an overview of the product suite, along with the demonstration of some of the product capabilities. Some of these products are now available like Docebo Shape, Docebo Content and Docebo Learning Impact. Some are upcoming releases like Docebo Flow, Docebo Content Hub and Docebo Learning Analytics. I'm using [indiscernible]. After the video, we will take the QA from the audience. If any of you have trouble watching the video due to technical issue, we did post in advance of the meeting on our Investor Relation website. And sent an e-link to all of the people that registered. Prior to start, I want to say that I get the idea of showing new products. When I read something about [indiscernible] let's say, I'm not buying anything. If I cannot visit the company in touch what they sell. And that's what I really want. I want you to touch and feel what we sell. We want you make -- make you confident on the product that we build because we are a product-driven company. So now that I know that Dennis hates me because I went out of [indiscernible], we can start. [Presentation]

Cool.

So we'll now take questions from the audience. [Operator Instructions] So our first question is from Robert Young from Canaccord Genuity.

Can you hear you? Okay. So first question. You had a lot of luck in the extended enterprise products. And so are some of these products, if you can talk about how they're suited to certain use cases when you're looking at an internal training tool versus an external training tool, looking at customers and partners and such, do some of these products lend themselves more to solving the challenges for one or the other or both? If you could talk about that, that would be helpful?

I'm Claudio Erba. I will try to serve one by one about the main products without -- and also touching a little bit of Docebo Flow and which for us is a model is not the product itself. So about the Shape, Shape can be used as a -- to speed up the production of content, both for internal and external. It's very agnostic in this case. In term of the LMS, we are already successful for the Docebo Learning Impact. I think you needed to measure the impact of the learning, both from the external and external use cases, maybe with different nuances. I mean for the internal is the impact on your career, for the external basis, how beneficial is for your business, the fact that your supplier is training your workforce. For the Docebo Learning Analytics, I mean, this works very well internally, but externally, it probably express more of the potential because you needed -- we have the capability to cross internal and external basis. So imagine you have to train your partners, and then you can connect your deal flow from sales force from your partner to the trainee who has to deliver. About the Shape and Flow, and I hope I'm not missing anything in terms of product, the use case is that been asked the most are embedding inside other software and partner portal is one is really really strange. So absolutely works very well into an external training environment, and it can work inside your ERP or inside your CRM for internal training. So I think that all of them can be used also in the external use cases.

Okay. And then second question for me would be the Docebo Flow as it relates to your OEM partner strategy. Clearly, if a partner is very unwilling to allow its users to exit their portal to go and use a learning platform, if you can embed right into the flow of the work as they're doing it. Maybe -- have you talked of your OEM partners about how they feel about this or maybe prospects? Talk about that the OEM strategy as it relates to the flow?

I need to tell you the truth. This idea came from the [indiscernible] when they come to me and say, Claudio, we really need the model that follow me and follow the learner and then please build this. And then I still have a very rough graphic idea. So you are completely right that these products is another way to train external OEMs, with the potential to train also internal projects. Because it's not only in OEMs, if I use it to reach many people that are using the sales force or using some other tool, and that [indiscernible] that recent web page, understand the context and send me the proper content for the specific page, you can imagine this is the game. You can imagine this is a game changer.

Okay. That's great color. Maybe last question before I let it go. I've seen over your shoulder, you've got an Oculus. And I was wondering if that was an intentional product factor there or not? And then I'll pass on to let other people ask questions.

First of all, Oculus hurt my neck. I mean it's too heavy and then too light to handle. But I think that Oculus is something that we needed to explore and we are cool about every technology. And then a product guy, I needed to start imagining what the future will be in 5 years. And also, if you think about Oculus, it's both a collaboration a real-time system for the classroom and I -- there are 2 or 3 virtual meeting room that I'm testing. They are not yet perfect, but I mean why not experimenting. I like it and I play some of the games, which for now are performing better than the virtual classroom tools by the way. Hey, Suthan. It looks like you are muted. Suthan now you are unmuted. So you can go. Ian, Ale, do you hear me? And you cannot hear me?

Loud and clear.

And you cannot hear Suthan, is it correct?

I can hear you good enough, yes. I can hear you.

Okay. Loud and clear. Thank you.

Go ahead, Suthan.

Great. Very good. The first question for me was just really more on the offering that's kind of the go-to-market plans for these. How would these be -- what's the plan to drive awareness and adoption of these offerings within your existing base? What's kind of the sales and support process for this? And is there potentially -- is there a self-serve option for your customers to kind of proactively enable these offerings by themselves?

Yes. Ale, are you taking it?

I'm happy to. Suthan, great question. Broad in nature. I'll try my best to give you the most important elements to how we think of this. Well, first of all, today, the video that you guys saw represent a vision for the future. And it's a journey. It's not a deliver everything tomorrow. From a -- why this matters? Well, it matters for our customers, but also for our org readiness. We are very focused on executing on this properly. Executing properly means many things. It means enabling the commercial workforce with the right information at the right time, not create an overfeeding effect of product altogether because the human brain can only consume so much. Then there is org readiness. Org readiness means designing organization to have the right level of knowledge and specialization across the company to execute on this properly according to our framework. So a couple of rightsize information on that. You will appreciate that launching a net new product like we have done with the Docebo Learning Impact, which is really the only one currently being actively publicly sold of the vision that we presented, in addition, of course, to our LMS. We will create overlays of go-to-market from a sales and product marketing motion standpoint, which combined with our product management organization that is highly specialized, creates sort of a broad structure that creates awareness internally about knowledge of better products and the power of the products, but then creates a layer of execution of specialization for the outside. We will do the same thing, overlaid knowledge specialized on the execution side on the PS and support front. Our goal, again, when I think proper execution is to have specialists that understand the buyer personas that work to continuously improve the product because they cannot be perfect from day 1. They need to be continuously evolved. And then moving into sales motion, implementation, support and renewal, we have people that actually understand the product and act as access. That's how we're thinking of it, and now we're executing it.

No, no, that's good color. The next question I had was, it's a plan really to make this -- your offerings here and the road map of offerings available as a full suite to your OEM partners. Just kind of curious how that will be packaged and delivered to your partners? And if the economics would be kind of similar to the core LMS? Or are there kind of variances depending on the offerings?

Well, look, I'll use an analogy to respond to this question, which is on a slightly different front, but follows the same underlying logic. When you think about the partners, in general, for example, in the context of outsourcing implementation services the partner, what do you do as the first step? You always make sure that your implementation in-house is very strong. You have a strong method so that you can go out to partners and say, here's how it's done. It is not very similar when you think of products. What we want to do is to make sure that the products that we are going to continue to be evolved and release to market that we are ultimate experts from go-to-marketing it, right, pitching, scripting, cadences, communication, collateral, all the readiness that needs to be done onto execution. Once we feel comfortable that we can be an awesome partner for our partners, then it's the time for them to absorb it. But going to partners and giving them a technology that we're still mastering ourselves is not going to serve them well. So we're going to do it. They are excited that we will release to them more technologies, but we'll do it properly.

So our next question is going to be from Martin Toner at ATB Capital Markets.

Hey, guys, got me?

Yes.

Yes.

Awesome. So I'm going to ask a quick question about scale. So when SaaS solutions have short implementation times, almost self-serve and they layer on a viral marketing component. We've seen these solutions really take up. Do you guys see that being possible for some of these solutions? And is the go-to-market strategy going to kind of change here?

Martin, I -- the more we move up market and the more we approach complex use cases, the more you have to work with the customer to make the solution successful. There are some products in the suite, which are easy to use and easy to adopt. Docebo Shape, Docebo Shape is easy to use because you can start tomorrow, I mean, you can now go to the docebo.com website and activate your own Docebo Shape and get your learning objectives done in less than 5 minutes. Starting from now in 5 minutes, you will get your first e-learning objects done. Different is when you have to build an AI -- a BI that is more of the that cross datas that greater datas from other sources. So I don't -- I mean -- and -- so our customers are not looking for simplicity in terms of simple software. And this has been proven because in North America, Docebo is a substitution market vendor where the customer is looking for an easy to learn to adopt and deploy it very quick but after 1 year, they reach to Docebo because they know -- they realize that their need of training is very complex. And imagine it's a 1,000 employees company, you need to train 3 different department with 3 different say, 3 different enablement team plus an external team. So I'm not sure that all the products will be a plug-and-play product. I'm sure that the journey that we have built from the content production to the data analytics is very consistent, very consistent with our vision and very consistent of what our customer needs. I don't know if I answer your question actually.

Yes, Very well. It sounds like Shape is going to have the potential to kind of add a bit of a viral element to your marketing.

Yes. And you know what we were playing or speculating in the organization is like, are we sure that Shape will cover all the training? Or can be used by financial times to create a video about the specific article they have published? Why not? I mean the AI behind runs for written test or similar or now and create an output. So yes, in term of virality, Docebo Shape is the more viral one and probably the more fun to use.

Cool. Yes, I want us to start using here. And what can you tell us about pricing for the suite and some of these new products?

Alessio, you like to take?

Well, look, I'll be candid. I think Ian and I will give you a couple of different views on this, but we certainly expected the questions around pricing again. And we also appreciate that we have some friendly competitors on the line. And so you will bear with us that we're going to be thoughtful in the way we address the question while at the same time, I wanted to give you some value because I want to respect the question. When we think of pricing, we want to make sure that as we continue to scale, our pricing remains consistent across the module and reflects the value of a given product on the basis of primarily 2 things. So if I am pricing Shape or Learning Analytics or Content Hub, the way we think of it primarily is recognize value. What is the value of the product? And what value will that product yield in the context of an ADL buyer that adopts it. So we create hypothesis or prototype buyers. We think of these cases, we think of scale and usage, and we think of the benefits that we'll get out of it, and we use that input to form certain hypothesis. Then we look at the market because as some products are very, very disruptive as being that they don't exist, i.e., Shape is very difficult to compare to existing products in the market. But others may have a parallel. And so we think, okay, what is the market price of those products? And we have to just consider that, right? I'm not saying that we're going to price like the market, but we have to be informed. And then finally, we think of how and what the pricing our customers can sustain in the context of that product. Keeping the pricing as simple as we can. So is it going to be on active users? What do we can, we're going to try and maintain that logic. Will that logic be applicable to each and every single product? We'll see. We're going to try, but it has to be logical in the context of the product itself. So I hope I'm giving you the elements. I haven't given you any numbers. I'm going to pass that kindly to Ian, but I hope the logic at least is helpful.

Yes. And Martin, in his normal way Alessio, I thought did a very good job at describing our philosophical approach to your question. We -- as you know, we don't really disclose pricing on a per module or per product basis. What I can say, though, is and this has been fundamental in terms of our approach from day 1. All of these products are going to be sold, so that they are consistent with a SaaS view of the world. And so these products will be included in our ARR on a go-forward basis, they will not be sold on a per use basis.

Our next question is from Daniel Chan at TD Securities. We currently can't hear you, Dan. Just FYI.

Can you hear me?

Yes, now we can hear you.

Oh, perfect. Just to expand on that last question. Maybe can you instead of talk about price, can you talk about the potential ARPU expansion opportunity from current levels, given the new products, maybe that's another way to ask it?

That's an awful lot. Again, that's the same question in a different costume.

Yes. I guess I'm not asking for like the exact numbers, but can you give like a percentage possibility increase from credit levels?

Yes. Look, the short answer is no, not yet. And I'm not sure we ever will be in a position where we want to respond to that. But the very specific reason that the answer is no, not yet today is we have yet to finally price any of these products other than the learning impact. One, which we started selling April 1. Look, we are excited about all of these. Not all of them are going to be applicable to every particular customer or every particular use case. But they will be sold in the context of -- as Alessio said, utility, which very often will imply in association with a user number that the LMS is based on. If you wanted me to guess, and I know you really, really do. If you wanted me to guess, I would guess that each product will be somewhere in the order of 5% to 20%, maybe more depending upon the product and the use case, and it could be as much as 30% of the base LMS price. But I really want to underscore none of that has been finally determined, and we will work our way through it.

Yes. Ian, I want to add a couple of points here. First of all, creating this suite and adding more product to sell to our customer base, actual customer and future customer is a way to raise the bar about the ARPU or ACV because it's more difficult to double the ACV, selling all the LMS and going up and up and up and see the [indiscernible] products. But there is one point, one caveat that we needed to discuss, which is this product that's been built to run alone and to be a factored to other LMSs. That means that we should with BI maybe can be deployed to a customer that owns another LMS and not like the Docebo Learning Impact is already running under other LMS is that where prior integration of the forMetris, which was the company we acquired. So there will be also scenarios like where you will have an ARPU which is lower because we're planning only one model and not on top as the cross-sell and upsell opportunity in the LMS. But this is increasing the total addressable market and we can approach also market that from the LMS perspective is already penetrated by a competitor, but with other models is not.

That makes a lot of sense. Can you comment on how many of your customers currently are taking on multiple products at the moment?

Do you want me to take that, Alessio?

Sure.

Sure. So Dan, I think it's fair to say, well, let me back up half a step. When you referred to a product, then historically, we view Docebo today or at least pre-April 1st as, in effect, a single product company that you had the capability to attach modules to an existing LMS. These, in our mind, are the first new products that we've introduced. So specifically answering your question, it's very small. It's not 0, but it's very small because we started selling these products as of April 1 this year. And only one of them has been taken to market at this point, and that's the learning impact market for product rather.

Maybe one incremental. If you -- incremental to what Ian says, in the context of when you think product versus module, there's a difference there. But we've observed that when we launched Coach & Share, discover Coach & Share back in really 2016. Claudio, help me with that. I believe that's the right date?

Yes.

Yes. We've seen a constant trend of the increase of attachment rate quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. And it's -- and the capability of Coach & Share along with extended enterprise, sales force and sales force are the most attached modules historically in the company. But again, it's important to differentiate the capability of a module provides, which necessitates of the LMS to exist versus what a product does that offers a capability that can be stood up by itself or in combination with our flagship LMS. And that is why we look at the attachment rates of modules as a guiding data point, but in the same way of attaching products.

Okay. Yes. Thanks for that clarification. I was specifically curious about the module additions. It sounds like it is -- the attach rate is increasing. Alessio, final one for me. You provided some color earlier about some of the organizational changes you made across the company. Can we go into the sales team structure a little bit more? And can you talk about some of the specific changes you're making to the sales team, maybe around not just to the organization but maybe even the incentive compensation to help drive some of these sales?

Sure. Dan, what I can, and there's quite a bit in motion as part of our plan. And so I can't cover things that are either currently in motion or will be in motion because I can't share with you something that the employees themselves haven't experienced quite yet. But we have plans to, like I said before, shape the organization in order to sustain the growth of -- that's going to be brought by incorporating these products in our go-to-market motion. What can I say that -- we think that ownership is going to be critical at all levels of the organization. And when I mentioned before creating overlays in sales and not only, it's for the purpose of making sure there is ownership of the expected outcomes out of each and every product. So when you have somebody that owns some things, that usually happens. When nobody owns something, it hardly have our assets. And on the basis of that, we're making sure that our comp framework incentivizes to an extent, the commercialization of the different capabilities. Now I don't know that I feel comfortable Dan, entering into the conversation of, are we splitting sales quarters, are we not? Are we doing state incentive programs? And you can imagine that we've been thinking about all of this, and we're being very thoughtful about something that is not too disruptive for our sales force. I can tell you maybe one thing. When we saw multiproduct and we think multiproduct because this is just the beginning of a journey, I said it before, we looked not only in-house, but we looked at, okay, how did the sales force and other leaders of the world execute on it, when they were, in fact, in a comparable place to ours? What decision did they think about? And how did they go about it? And so I'm always the same for not trying to reinvent the wheel at all cost but also use the experience from the leaders that have succeeded doing something and learning from them. So a lot of those decisions are going to be consistent with what we've seen across the best-in-class companies.

Our next question is from Gavin Fairweather from Cormark Securities.

Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Great. Maybe just following on the product versus module conversation. I'd imagine that maybe it's a bit more difficult to attach a new product to a new logo. Could you view this as being more of an upsell opportunity versus trying to educate the new logo coming into your sales funnel on new products?

For sure, yes. This is -- we know how to upsell and cross-sell. It's our comfort zone. We have over 2,000 customers and counting. So simply to be more easy to entertain conversations with customers. But from the architecture perspective, the products can work independently. They are designed to work independently. So it's another opportunity that when we will be ready, we will start those soon.

Perfect. Maybe one for Alessio. Do you think the channel taking a big role with any of these products, maybe if you're selling them as a stand-alone? Just curious.

Our channel strategy, we've been quite clear, it's very, very OEM-focused, that's where we put many of our efforts. If by channel, you mean, sales -- subscription licenses sales on behalf of partners, where partners are defined as OEMs. And I think we covered that before. I said, we want that. They absolutely are asking us to provide these technologies. We will do that at the right time. Now are there going to be VARs, other VARs that are going to be interested in commercializing these? Sure. But we're very -- again, we're very focused on strategic alliances and strategic partners such as OEMs, primarily. There is no doubt that in the future as we continue to add capability and scale also to our professional services organization, we will have in mind the right organizations to implement some of these products, and that can create an interesting flywheel to ensure we have coverage in professional services as well, if we implement all of these. But we're very focused on our direct and upsell strategy, the channel for this product will follow.

Okay. And then just lastly for me. I mean you touched on how some of the functionality within your suite does have some competition in the market. Maybe you could just expand, does a lot of that competition look like forMetris in terms of it being a point solution that's addressing a use case versus something that's being offered by a non-LMS company?

Yes, that's a great question. Well, I think it's a great question because when we how -- one of the -- and Claudio, who is our mastermind product strategist and visionary, I would love some color from you on this. But when we thought about suite we thought about suite or Docebo suite in the context of solving for a lingering problem in the market. The market is very fragmented. You're correct, it is very much point solutions-based. And we have not seen many companies in fact, if nobody at all that has taken a very intentional learning all the strategy and scale the strategy to solve the entire life cycle of learning the problems that a enterprise organization has. Now, don't get me wrong. In this call, there's probably a couple of competitors that think they solve the multiple problems, and I think they do some. But I don't believe that currently in the market, there is somebody poised to solve the end-to-end life cycle needs of an enterprise in the learning technology space. We have built and are going to be building technologies to be that player, and that will differentiate ourselves from anybody else.

So our next question is from Stephanie Price of CIBC.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Perfect. I was curious about how you think of cross-selling into those existing customer base? And if you're building out a account manager for existing customers? Or how do you think about cross-selling into that base?

We think about it in the context of the #1, building a customer base that is healthy, happy and single prices. It is only by doing that, that we can have success in whatever initiatives we will propose to them in the future. That is stable stakes. And the company focus, a corporate focus to have customers that are not just satisfied, but happy and proud of working with us. Then it's execution. It's -- we already have an investment into account management and customer experience. When an enterprise joins Docebo as a customer, they get coupled with professionals. There are both commercial professionals and adoption professionals. So we couple you with an expert and somebody that would represent value or sales. And so for us, the design is readily scalable in itself. What we need to execute on is ensuring we provide the right level of knowledge and specialization at presales level as well for all these capabilities. And don't get me wrong, it's a ton of work. And we're going to work very hard to empower our sales team to understand the value of these products. The design is ready. The work to be done now it's all execution.

Good color. And then also wondering how we should think about the timing for the rollout of the full suite?

I don't know exactly what we said and we disclosed, but it's going to be progressive, and it's going to take, I said, a journey multiple times, several months leading into late 2021 over time to release our products, if not early 2022. But Ian, you may jump in here because I'm not entirely sure what commitments were made publicly in terms of time line. But just to be clear, we're excited, and we want to launch the products when we are sure that we will succeed.

Great. Stephanie, all of these products, and we've waited to get to this point so that we could say this. All of these products, we believe, are market-ready. And we are almost more focused on being organizationally ready at this point as opposed to product ready. And so we're doing what we need to do to ensure that the rollout and the introduction is successful, both from our customer perspective, obviously, as well as from our perspective. What is -- as Alessio said, what is definitive is none of -- all of these products are done and ready to go. So these are not something that we hope to do next year. We're confident today, of course, things can change, that will be done taking all of them to market in 2021. And that's our current goal. We'll feel our way through the year as we go. But we're reasonably comfortable. We'll have them all in the market by the end of the year.

Great. So I don't think there's any further questions from the analysts. We're going to take a few questions in the remaining 8 minutes from the audience. First question is if you can just talk about how Docebo is better to doing -- how Docebo thinks do better to differentiate themselves from other learning platforms like Moodle?

Yes. So Moodle -- first of all, Moodle is another word, is [indiscernible] solution that was competing with us probably prior that Alessio joined Docebo so prior to 2010. I think that Moodle still have some pace in the industry, but we don't find them in competitions especially in North America. I recall some bid in Saudi Arabia or in the Middle East, where Moodle was competing with some government bid or -- I don't know. So -- and if I -- so technologically speaking, Moodle is -- I saw Moodle spend around time and also other content learning of content [ arises ] system. And then remember that was in the. Moodle was a big file. You upload in database and you upload this file in one's server. And the platform is also ready to roll. I think in 5 minutes, you can deploy your own Moodle. Now I mean you cannot upload [ PhD ] files into database and connect it through a password that run a system. Because how to connect AI algorithm to create a video transcript or to start the video. It's not a pilot launch, it's a more complex process. How can you distribute [ CDN ] -- through a [ CDN ] worldwide accountant. I mean there are many, many, many new technologies that the open software is probably difficult to manage just because of the complexity of the environment.

Okay. Next question is what kind of impact do you think these products have through net adds? They've been accelerating strongly independent of the strategy. So does it suggest that you can accelerate this meaningfully further?

So for -- yes. On the short term, we can say in our comfort zone enjoy our growth, which is probably higher than the [ use the CAGR ]. And we have -- but we are here, first of all, to make innovation. Second, to provide to our customer what they want or what they think they will benefit in the future. And we are here to build a new CER, a multi-premium business. And I don't think we can arrive to a multi-premium business only with the LMS. The fact that the customer are needed to put together not homogenic, not organic solutions, shopping from different vendors was for us a problem. For our customer, it was a problem. So we think that on the long run, it's a nice strategic movement. If you think from the differentiation standpoint, our competitor are no one of them of what we know is going on these directions. Some is investing on content. Some is acquiring other LMS when they try to [indiscernible] industry. But I think that on the long run, this is the Docebo way to continue to lead the industry.

Excluding your OEM channel, how much of your end market customers have been asking you for these tools? How much pull from these customers do you see?

Yes, 75%, content, so 25% models. Shape, Learning Analytics and Docebo Impact. Shape was an idea, not coming from me as usual because there is a company in Europe, what remain of [indiscernible] that a lot of years ago wanted to create a touch, a human touch, it's a PowerPoint presentation to AI. AI was too early for them. But I say, what if I can copy [indiscernible] doing [ Docebo ] learning and the AI was there. At the moment, I see the idea to these guys. So not my idea, but prior to create an innovation to pitch to the customer and then they will analyze the [indiscernible] about the triple impact. If you remember -- if you all guys are in the learning industry, we always have spoken about [ ROI ] [indiscernible] learning. But the [ ROI ] cannot be measured and deducted or inferred through qualitative data only. So we needed to anchor beside that the industry wanted an [ ROI ], providing the tools that measure qualitative data. So in this case, the customer wanted something we provided the tool. The Learning Analytics came from through [indiscernible] that our customer has. You know that they cannot access an enablement department easily to BI tool and you make an access to BI tool, they do not add data file entries inside their specific state. So the fact is that the capital work as a BI took and, they ask and we continue be asking for customization now our reporting system. But our reporting system is reporting the just reason the online learning [indiscernible] data. It's not going up. It's a parting, it's not a BI. So within the BI in order to overcome the fact that our customers have access to increasing tool, which were not specialized on learning and do not -- they don't have the capability to build that [indiscernible]. We provide an easy produce that further that they can use easily. I think it's enough. Is it correct, Dennis.

As a general observation, our company has a value, right, one of our values is the impact, creating impact for our customers. And when we thought about some of the products, for example, Shape, we, for sure, take input from customers. But our job we're the experts in this industry. Our job is to innovate and provide them solutions that may not be requesting right now in this very moment, but we believe there is a need for. So I think tools like products like Shape are really represented best that part of the value of our company.

Great. Thanks, everybody. There's no further questions. I'll just turn it back to Claudio to say the closing remarks.

Yes. Thank you, everyone, for staying with us and listening to our ideas, our [indiscernible]. I hope you had fun like we had fun during this week.

Perfect. It's right. Have a great day, everybody. Thank you for having us.

Thank you, everyone.