Dr. Lal PathLabs Limited (LALPATHLAB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentleman, good day and welcome to the Dr. Lal PathLabs Conference Call to discuss business updates. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nishid Solanki from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to today's call hosted by Dr. Lal PathLabs to share business updates and discuss the situation arising out of COVID-19, the company's empanelment for testing for COVID-19 and overall sentiments in the diagnostic industry. Joining us today are senior members of the management team including Honorary Brigadier, Dr. Arvind Lal, Chairman and Managing Director; Dr. Om Prakash Manchanda, Whole Time Director and CEO; and Mr. Ved Prakash Goel, CFO. We also have with us, Mr. Bharath, CEO, India Business; and Mr. Rajat Kalra, Company Secretary and Head of Investor Relations. Before we announce the call -- before we commence the call, I would like to underline that some of the statements made on the call today could be forward-looking in nature and the actual updates may vary from these forward-looking statements. I would now like to request Honorary Brigadier, Dr. Arvind Lal, to share his perspectives with you. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening, ladies and gentleman. Thank you for joining us today and believing in our strategy and progress. COVID-19 is indeed a challenge that, as a nation, we must address together. As a health care organization, we find ourselves at the forefront of this effort and we are all in it together. You would be aware, we have commenced testing for the COVID-19 at our laboratory, and as the days progress, that activity would get scaled up to cover the every potential sample that may arise in the geography in which we are operated. Over the [Audio Gap] as a responsible corporate, defined budgets of the CSR-related initiatives and we will work towards contributing directly to the cause as well. Over the long-term, we do not see changes in the requirement for diagnostic services nationwide, although in the immediate term, in the light of the measures being adopted to contain the spread of the contagion, our operations are seeing significant impact, though it seems temporary as we are in essential services business. The management is overseeing multiple task forces to mitigate the impact on the-day-to-day operations and streamline the processes. This includes working with the relevant authorities to ensure smooth movement of samples, materials and our employees, all of which is deemed to be an essential service. We have provided overnight stay and facilitated key personnel wherever they are required to remain on site. Moreover, we continue to stand with the nation at this arch. We remain attuned to the challenges ahead and are completely prepared and willy to restore normalcy as and when, when the situation improves on the field. With that, I would like to request our CEO, Dr. Om Manchanda, to address all of you now. Om?

Thank you, Dr. Lal, and good evening to all of you. Thank you for taking the time out and being with us on this call. I want to take this opportunity to brief you on the measures that we have taken to successfully tied over this difficult period. Our efforts towards partnering with the government on testing the suspect COVID-19 cases and a general overview of where we wish to head. You would be aware that Dr. Lal was one of the early labs that received clearance from the government for testing of COVID-19. These tests are being handled by our National Reference Laboratory in Rohini, Delhi. As you are aware, tests are being offered at a price of INR 4,500 for the initial and confirmatory test. There is a dedicated desk at the back end that is taking requests, and our employees are visiting the patient to collect the samples. At the laboratory, we have protocols to place -- in place to handle test and dispose off the samples. The results are shared online via other means that don't involve any contact. As is mandated, a specific isolated area has been earmarked within the laboratory away from the rest of the operation in order to conduct these tests. And the rooms simply will have things like atmosphere control, limited access and will function as a dedicated unit. The person visiting for Sample collision has been adequately trained in observing the correct safety measures. The test is being run on our PCR machine and the kit that we are using is coming from Velburg authorized by government of India. Being initial days, the vendors are scaling up their supplies globally, and we should see supplies picking up in the next few days. Following the Janata Curfew on March 22, the nation maintain to a lock down mode from midnight of March 24 onwards. Walk-ins and business coming from collection centers and pickup on network have certainly come down, and we expect that the business will stay subdued quite a bit til we have some normalcy. I would like to reassure you that our infrastructure remains available to the patients. Employees are finding it difficult to attend the stoppage of public means of Transport as also the industry logistics for samples themselves remains impacted. The local authorities are being briefed on the nature of the services. And on a daily basis, we are seeing situation improving. We are seeing shortages in some of the material that is required to collect and test the sample for COVID-19 like personal protection equipment is critical for an entity engaged in medical profession as also in diagnostics to ensure safety overall. We are able to manage within the present situation where the requirement is in the order of few hundreds. However, we will need more. Moreover, we are continually working with those on the field and in the frontline to keep their morale high. Our supply chains are being tested and our focus is also on ensuring that we are operationally able to meet the requirement of the patients that need our services. In a few weeks from now, we'll be reporting our annual results and I would not want to get into that aspect today. Therefore, I would urge you not to focus on the immediate financial performance implication of the operations as we are in the early days yet. Assessing the situation that evolves and our management is making a full assessment and adjustment to the course of action, strategically speaking. The same will be shared with you by the time we announce our annual results. I wish to add, however, that we are cognizant of the costs and other challenges that are both permanent with the lock down, and we are working towards mitigating the same through already ongoing initiatives. Whereas, in the interim, our teams are focused on delivering maximum reach and scale to this entire operation. We remain focused on long-term agenda of making quality diagnostics available to the larger population. We expect that by the time we share our annual results with you, we should be in a position to give perspectives on the coming quarters. With that, I would like to request the moderator to open the line for queries from participants. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Harish Bihani from ICICI Prudential.

Sir, when you -- this is a broader question. At the national level, when you look at the number of tests done so far, which according to my understanding is somewhere around -- between 30,000 to 35,000 till yesterday, is that adequate? How should one think about that in terms of the number of tests done and the number of positive cases? So there is this general consensus globally, especially in the U.S. market, that the number of tests should increase, that will give you a real picture of how good or bad we are at present status. So your perspective on this will be very helpful?

Yes, okay. We probably are, as a company, not in a position to comment on this aspect because there's a lot of stuff going on, on social media, et cetera. I think as an organization, we are completely focused on -- for government's on their guidelines and directives. So I would refrain from commenting on whether this testing is less or more. I think people working in ICMR and Health -- Ministry of Health, they probably would be in a better position to comment on this aspect.

Sure. In terms of the kit availability, how is that? As in, if theoretically, you want to do, say, a 1,000 tests in a day and possibly you can do that. I don't know what's the number of tests that you can do. Do we have that kind of kit availability? Or is that a bottleneck right now? As you said protection gear is a bottleneck? Or is there some shortages of protection gear?

So I think, as we speak right now, this update might change in a few hours from now. But as of now, we definitely have shortage. And I would like to spend a little time on this because none of us were actually prepared for this kind of situation. So whatever capacities most private players have, is the capacity that usually exist for running our day-to-day business. And a lot of PCR tests, which are done on HIV, STD, or swine flu. So that capacity is what we have already. I think that's the capacity which we're currently utilizing. And the moment we got approval, obviously, at the same time, many manufacturers also got approvals. So it has taken a bit of time for these guys to get approvals, if they are imported from outside to get DCGI and import licenses. I think my sense is, currently, we are in short supply. My personal judgment is that in next few days, this should start improving as manufacturing -- as the commercial run is taking place in India by one of the labs approved by the government and also some global players are importing some of these kits. So as we speak, there is definitely a shortage, but we do see things improving in a few days from now.

Okay. And how many days does it take now from doing a test to getting your final results?

Harish, there is no -- if everything is available with us in terms of all the material, et cetera, then a run is, I think, just takes about 6 to 7 hours, theoretically speaking. But we are -- right now, since there is a shortage of kits, et cetera, we are not in a position to commit any turnaround time because we are collecting sample only as per what we have. But I think 24 to 48 hours is good enough time for us to report on this depending on where the sample is also collected because there's a travel time for samples involved. But within the lab itself once the sample has hit and it is put on the machine, it's just about 6 to 7 hours' time.

The next question is from the line of Mayank Hyanki from Axis Mutual Fund.

I have questions against -- with regards to capacity of testing and shortages. So if you see the numbers of testing, before the private labs were permitted to do testing, government was testing around 1,500 tests per day, whereas the number, barring last 2 days, jumped to about 2,500 tests per day. So we are seeing about 1,000 tests -- more tests per day. I mean we have initially seen reports that the government has procured close to 1 lakh kits for testing. And I'm not sure about how each private lab is supposed to arrange for the test kits, but if you could just help us highlight, within this 1,000, are you guys also feeling -- facing shortage to such an extent that you have to refuse patients from a testing perspective? I understand that there's been problems around logistics, manpower. But there is a -- there are kit shortages, as of now, you do not have even -- the whole private sector itself does not even have 1,000 kits where they kind of supply?

Yes. So I probably don't have entire industry data as we speak. But let me tell you on the capacity aspect, there are many things one need to look at it. In fact, the focus right now is quite a bit on kits, but let me break this capacity in 3 parts. So there is a capacity to collect. So that's also an important area because health care workers are limited in numbers because this require a -- this is sort of a skilled job. You require PPE, which is a personal protection equipment required, while collecting the sample because that's also important because that's also sort of go to -- that's also in short supply. And -- so that's one area, which is capacity to collect. Then, the second is capacity to test, which is actually a function of both, both in terms of machine capacity as well as kit capacity. While I think everyone of us is talking about kit capacity, but it's also very important for everyone to know that machine capacity is equally important. At this stage, I am not at all in a position to actually forecast the demand. And once you start placing order for machines, et cetera, there is also a lead time involved. Currently, the capacity all the private players that they have, my understanding is, it's the capacity which usually they carry for their day-to-day business. People are planning for next phase of capacity enhancement depending on how the testing volumes improve. And currently, I don't think anyone of us is in a position to know what the demand is going to be in future. But currently, we are underutilized for the capacity that we [indiscernible]. So as of now, the focus is to get the kits and then we'll see in Phase II, whether we need to add machines also.

Yes, sir. Okay, my question is, right now, whatever -- Sir, I don't know want to get into future demand. But last, I said that you guys have got into this testing, do you guys have adequate number of kits to basically use the incoming test demands, which you guys are facing? That's one. And secondly, I understand that you have because the current business has taken a hit, the PCR machines should also be underutilized. To that extent, as of now, you will be probably able to deploy towards COVID-19 testing. So are you facing especially any challenges towards kits procurements, it is my question? If I understand better, the challenges will be there. And they are on [indiscernible] challenges.

Yes. As we speak now, we have short supply of kits.

Okay, okay. And lastly, could you also touch upon the process of somebody calling for COVID-19 test. I mean how actually does the process take place? Which physician has to be called? And it has to be tested directed through a government [indiscernible] private doctor also probably prescribing COVID-19 tests? And then, you guys, how do you verify the symptoms?

So there are clear guidelines given by ICMR on this. And in fact, there's a circular that has come out, which clearly outlines as to which kind of patient we need to entertain. So it's very clear that it has to be supported by a patient -- by a doctor's prescription. Without that, we will not entertain any requests. And there are guidelines given to doctors also as to who is actually -- who can be prescribed this test or not. So clearly, there's a documentation in place, and without proper records, we don't really entertain any patient. And currently, we have seen there are 2 kinds of patient flow. One is people who are asking for a home collection. And the second is, where if the patient is admitted in the hospital and hospitals are calling us to collect the sample. Two -- because it's highly infective sort of material, we have made sure that 2 teams for COVID as well as non-COVID are completely align through water-tight compartments. So that we don't end up actually mixing the people also who are collecting COVID sample or non-COVID samples. So that is the way we are looking at it. To answer -- to short answer to your question is that it has to be supported by a doctor's prescription.

The next question is from the line of Chandramouli from Goldman Sachs.

The first question, you mentioned in your opening remarks that there has been a significant slowdown in walk-ins and volumes from collection centers. So I understand that this should become visible on the revenue side. But just on the cost side, could you give us some perspective on maybe what percentage of your sales is fixed or variable? And where you see opportunity for cost or CapEx rationalization to offset some of this revenue pressure?

Thanks. It's a really good question. I think the impact came immediately on our network as lockdown was announced and it disrupted the entire supply chain, sample movement got disrupted completely. Then, many small nursing homes, smaller labs in various parts for the country and then collection centers, they also shut their shops. Something which was in our control and I'm happy to say that our employees really have risen to the occasion and actually close to 90% of our own infrastructure was open and it's currently open as well. Teams have worked very hard to work with local authorities to get some of these passes to move around. And I must say the authorities have been very cooperative. Though, it took a little time in the beginning, but now as things have settled down out, in many places, Dr. Lal PathLabs' people and teams have been allowed to move around freely. So that really impacted the business. But we -- and there was a sharp dip, but we do see, on a delay basis, some -- little bit of improvement per day as we are working and ensuring people and also talking to our franchisees that they should really open the [indiscernible] centers. Coming back to your question on cost side. Close to, I think, I don't have that number readily available, but my sense is close to 48%, 50% of our costs are fixed in nature. And obviously, any impact on top line will have sort of a deleverage impact, and we may see pressure on profit. So we are identifying certain areas of cost where -- which we can cut down. And -- it's early days yet, but our teams are actually working together identifying few projects where we can actually reduce the cost. And clearly, we can see rental is a big item. And we are going back to some of our landlords and trying to renegotiate the agreements. I think it's a very early days yet, but we're just putting together cost optimization plans for our company as we move forward. But we do recognize, in the short term, there will be pressure. Hopefully, once this -- we are out of this in a few weeks from now and whatever hopefully as early as possible, then things should come back to normal.

Got it. That was very helpful. Second question is just on the volumes. You mentioned that there is pressure. So if you were to just look at B2B and B2C, where you think you're seeing more of the slowdown coming from at this point?

It's actually all across. It's -- I really can't signal out one particular stream. We just had a sort of a -- we're mostly in touch with our field teams on a daily basis, 2x in a day. What is coming out, it's all across. I think the major problem has been a complete shutdown of supply chain, nothing can go in, nothing can come out, all borders are sealed. I think that really impacted everything, and people -- it's been just a week. But if I were to really identify one particular area where the impact has been there, I don't think there is one. It's all across.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Thavkar from Motilal Asset Management.

Sir, as far as the sample collection is concerned, there are only 45 private labs, which are allowed to do a pan India collection. Is that a right understanding?

No, our understanding is -- see there are 2 parts to this. One is to collect and other is to test. Testing is not all across because these kind of equipments and facilities are very unique, and you can't really invest. So normally, such testing would be available in a high-end lab. Currently, in our setup, we have -- as you know, we have 200-plus kind of labs, but there are 2 reference labs, Kolkata and Delhi. We have the ability to test in both the places. But as of now, our Delhi lab in Rohini has been approved for this test. And our understanding is we can collect from everywhere because that's what I got the briefing as well. But health is a state subject, so every state is now viewing it the way they want to look at it. But current understanding for us is that we can collect from everywhere and test it in Delhi and bring the sample here. But since supply chain movements are not happening, so most of our samples that have been collected, wherever we have done so far, has been in Delhi itself.

Okay. Last question from my side, on this -- everyone has been saying that this is a no-profit, no-loss model, but given the fact that we are standing up to the cause, can this current expense model be put under the CSR category?

Anyway, our CSR expense -- CSR money is not that large that it can be taken from there because that is a very small sum of money. We are at a stable sort of a cost structure, it's at cost. Obviously, we are not looking at making any money out of this. But since the volatility on supply side is so much and price fluctuation is so high, one also is not able to get a sense of what's the real cost of the test. But our understanding is at stable pricing, it should be breaking even.

Sir, I assume, in other words, I can at least absorb a part of our fixed cost. Is that a right understanding?

Both yes and no, because the teams that are actually working on this are very different. And it is not that patients are walking into our collection centers or labs. Because if I were to look at it, these are 2 different businesses completely. Because precaution that one needs to take in transporting it, in collecting it, this is completely different material, different training is required and the department is only one, which is molecular diagnostics, it's not that you can move people from one department to another department. So I think the answer to your question is partly true. But to a large extent, I think it's a completely different sort of a skill which is required to deal with these samples.

Okay. Just one last from my side. Can you reveal how much -- how many samples you might have processed or collected?

We are actually a few hundred. So I don't want to put a specific number here, but since the supply of the kits is issue as of now, but we are hoping that it will get resolved. But right now, it is not a very large number to talk about.

Next question is from the line of Prashant Nair from Citi.

One -- the first question is on the testing kits availability. There have been some news reports over the last few days of Indian manufacturers also trying to come with their testing kits. I believe, one has been approved as well. So does this improve availability meaningfully in your view over the next few days? And secondly, does it make a difference to the cost? Or would the cost be still the same comparable to [indiscernible].

Okay. So there are various vendors, companies that have been approved. And if you want to know the list of companies that are approved, it's available on ICMR website. There are -- initially when approval came, it came for U.S. FDA approved and CE certified kits. Then, approval came for non-U.S. FDA, Indian manufacturing SBA. If my information as of now is right, I think there are 4 Indian manufacturers or 4 non-U.S. FDA approvals have happened. And one of them, I think, is the Indian manufacturer, which is Mylab. So once their approval came in, they actually had to undergo a few more licenses from DCGI, and based on my understanding of some, et cetera. So Mylab, I think, is basically a commercial run. To answer your first question, as the commercial run comes out, assuming that logistics is not a problem, I think their plant is in Pune, the things on kits should improve. Most of the companies that have U.S. FDA-approved kits are all multinationals. They are trying to import from their home countries. And again, the information is that supply on that front also should improve in coming days. So whosoever I'm talking, most people are saying from 3rd or 4th, April 5 onwards, we will have sufficient stock of kits. So let's hope by then things would improve on supply of kits. What was the second question you asked?

I think it was on cost.

On cost side, I think the data that we have is, there is no significant difference between Indian manufacturers or any foreign manufacturers is what the data that I have. So it's not going to be a material difference between the two.

Okay. And the second question relates then the cost of doing the tests and how profitable if there is a breakeven? Is it -- I mean how much is it a function of volume as well? So if, say, we start testing a lot more, does the cost go down significantly like it does with many of your routine tests? Or this does not follow that same model?

It's a slightly semi-technical question, but my understanding is that each kit has 96, there are some 96 vents. So if you have a batch of 96 at a same time, then it's an optimal point for cost purchase. If you have anything below that as a batch, then we will be adversely impacted. If it's probably above that, then you end up using a separate sort of well. Maybe, Dr. Lal can answer that question a little bit more if you can unmute his line.

There are -- it's 100-well kit in which if you have 98 samples and 2 samples are to be put as a positive control and negative control, which are not patient samples. So theoretically, it will be 98 tests in one run, provided you have 98 samples with you. If you don't, you can bake that into a 2 cycles. For example, if you want to utilize this kit twice, then you'll have to put up 4 controls, 2 positive and 2 negative at different times, one each different time. And therefore, the number of samples tested goes slightly less. So that's the way it works.

So Prashanth, if you are looking at -- will we have economies of scale if the patient load goes up, as of my current understanding, it may not be the case.

Okay, understood. And the final question from my side. So when we hear about all capacity for testing, et cetera, this assumes that each run will use all the 98 wells, is that right?

Yes, yes. That's what has been factored into constant. Yes.

The next question is from the line of Krishnendu Saha from Quantum Mutual Fund.

I have a little bit of a different perspective of the whole idea. Just I have a question on that. If I look at the numbers, the number of tests being conducted in a day 16,000 tests and number of patients positive is 7,000 of the 16,000. We've done 34,900 some tests, and we've only got 1,071 tests positives. So this ratio is pretty skewed towards. I do not have understanding why is this so different for India and to rest of the world? So I know the number of tests have increased also -- talk about the well, that's one, that what I get it. But if you look at the ratio, the number of tests performed and the number of tests positive, India is way, way off. Is there a problem with our testing kits itself?

So I think the first question was on similar lines. So I don't think as a company, we have a complete view on it at a macro level. So I don't think that we are in a position to answer this question. I think government authorities would be in a better position to answer this question. So I would like to refrain to comment on this.

Yes. So I can tell you one thing, the government has changed the testing criteria. Initially, in first phase, it was people coming from outside, say from countries like China, Italy, Spain, et cetera. So those and their contacts were to be tested. So that was a different testing strategy. And therefore, exactly answers what you just asked. In the early phase, once we robed in the private players, we have expanded the testing criteria and able to do in all symptomatic places and to people who are being quarantine, et cetera. So therefore, the number of testing will go up. And this has helped us spread in the community like wildfire, the person's positivity will actually go down. And that is what the government as of today has also claimed that the person's positivity has come down, thanks to measures, which they took very tiredly.

Is it coming from a distance perspective? Or is it because that we are only testing if you have 3 symptoms instead of where the U.S. is testing when they have -- if you have 1 symptom. Is it like that? Or is it like if we have a fever, is it a dry cough, and another one, then only can be tested in India as of from the U.S., they are being tested if they have 1 [indiscernible]?

I don't know about U.S. criteria, but the Indian criteria is suspect to be positive, you should go ahead and if we have a history of being in contact with somebody who has been positive or et cetera, whatever. And therefore, you have to get a doctor's prescription. This is for a test which a patient can demand and say, that Dr. Lal, please come in, do the test for me. You have to be seen by a doctor. There is a Form 44 involved, which has to be filled by a doctor. And that doctor then he has to write-down the signs and symptoms. So the government is correctly and from a scientific point of view, trying to take all those people who can turn out to be positive and not randomly in the population at large with anybody who has flu or flu like symptoms, it should be tested. So there is kind of a control on that.

The next question is from the line of Karthik Chellappa from Buena Vista Fund Management.

Sir, my first question is of the tests that you have done so far. Given that the tests are conducted only in your Delhi lab, how many states have you received samples so far?

I don't think that, that number is available readily. But it's all within Delhi state because I don't think samples are traveling from outside right now.

Yes, because there is no transportation right now Because of the lack of airlines, everything is shut up. We've been approached by many states, but we've also told them that, for example, Goa is after us, as we have no ways of transporting the sample from Goa to Delhi because all the airlines are closed down. So that's the problem. Maybe after this if you think that it may improve.

So for all practical purposes achieved in the lockdown as an effect, although we have a pan India capability to conduct tests, purely because of these constraints, it is going to be restricted to Delhi and Delhi outskirts, right?

Yes, theoretically, what you say is correct, but NCR of Delhi has a population of 2 crores, which is equivalent to the entire population of South Korea. So there's enough people to be tested.

And plus there are, I think, 44 labs that have been approved. All states governments have approved the labs. So it's not that the entire system is dependent on 1 or 2 labs.

In Delhi itself, there are 3 labs here. Three labs in Delhi itself.

Got it. And my second question is the stance that you have designated for carrying out these tests, whether picking up or conducting, what would that be as a percentage of the total staff strength that you have?

I think -- is Bharath -- can you unmute Bharath's line? Bharath can you throw some light on that?

Sure. It's a very small percentage, less than a single-digit percentage.

Okay, got it. Which means that for the normal test, although that volume has actually come down, there is still sizable staff that are available to go and collect samples for formal tests in case if there is a necessity, right? Is that continuing as per normal reference?

Yes, yes, yes.

The next question is from the line of Sameer Baisiwala from Morgan Stanley.

Sir, first question. What's your sort of backlog of samples waiting to be tested in the system or with you?

There is nothing right now because we are also baking out collection as per the kits availability as well. We don't want to find ourselves in the situation where we have collected more samples, but we don't have kits. So as of now, I think we're just matching the demand and supply together.

Okay. And any comment you can offer for the system as a whole?

Any comment?

For the system for India as a whole. I mean we hear reports that there are, I don't know, a senior doctor was saying 40,000 samples in Karnataka, 40,000 in Rajasthan waiting. I have no idea.

No. At least we don't have that kind of surge in the demand also as well. But as I mentioned to you, we are right now waiting for supplies of kits. As the kit supply happens, then we start collecting. I don't know latest update as of today. But in the morning, we had exhausted all the kits, and we have not -- we're just putting a hold on the collection because this is not the right thing. We collect the sample, we don't have the kits, then we can't give the report on that. So we're just trying to match both ends.

Okay. And sir, just talking about the kits. Did you mention that your current capacity is a few hundred samples in a day, which will go up in the next few weeks? And second to that is, is it 3 to 4 weeks, I mean, what would be a major source of kits? Would it be the domestic players, Mylab type of company? Or would it be the imported ones?

Actually, it will be both. So we have placed order with all the vendors and -- whosoever can supply us early because right now, our capacity for testing, let's say, [head-to-head ] at full peak requirement is about 1,500 tests per day we can do. If the number goes beyond that, then we have to add the capacity by having more machines and so. But to answer your questions, we will procure it from everyone whosoever is approved by the government of India.

Okay. Sir, this is a little mature in our situation because I was listening to the U.S. call by the diagnostics companies over there, and what they were saying that the orders that they have placed or lots of thermo pressure, et cetera. They are taking -- they are having 3 weeks backlog and what they've saved here is getting 10% of that after 3 weeks. So I was just wondering if the home markets are suffering or has such shortage, then how will they be able to export it to countries like India?

I think that's a good question. I'm sure our officials in government are addressing that. And I think they are building a lot of government capacity as well. So it's sure -- I'm sure that people are sitting up there are actually addressing that. My sense is let's not really dig in to India versus U.S. scenario. We have to actually make sure that right now, our capacity is 1,500 tests per day. We won't even have kits to test the 1,500. At the same time, as the ICMR guidelines are coming out, as a management team, we have to really get a sense of what is a largely demand possible. Right now, our demand is much less than what the capacity we have. And then we'll prepare answers to buy some more machines if we are actually are required to do that to meet the demand. But I really won't like to get into a comparison between U.S. and India. I'm sure if the shortage is at a macro level, government of India will definitely address that in any case.

Okay, okay. But I thought government would be buying it for public hospitals and lab, not for the private guys. I mean you would be [indiscernible] for yourself.

So we have -- yes, so we know the list of players who are having approvals. So we are reaching out to all of them and have started taking orders for more bumpers depending on whatever we can think of is the likely demand in next, let's say, 10 to 15 days, and we are also getting some sense out of it because our geographies right now are restricted to Delhi, and we are not able to move samples from other parts of the country. It is becoming extremely difficult even to project the demand also.

Okay, fair enough. Sir, I also got a couple with your permission. The first one is on the Abbott's rapid testing thing, which will test of 1 in 5 minutes. Any thoughts on the rapid testing?

I think this is a little technical question, I'll ask Dr. Lal to answer this. And I think the Dr. Lal has dropped off from this call. Can I request...

Yes, sir. We are reconnecting him.

Yes, can you reconnect him? I think this is antibody versus antigen test. So I don't think I'm competent enough to answer that question. So he would be in a better position to answer that.

Dr. Lal is connected now.

So you can -- Dr. Lal, there is a question related to this 5 minutes and serology kind of test. So can you repeat that for Dr. Lal again?

Yes, sure. Sir, I think Abbott came out with a press release, I think, 2 days back that they have sort of come out with a rapid testing, which does, I think, 1 test in 5 minutes. I think it's antibody testing. So any thoughts on that? And will that solve the capacity issue going forward? Would you be adopting that?

So it is not for us to adopt or not to adopt. It first has to be recognized as a testing strategy by the government of India, namely ICMR. Now all said and done, in the acute phase, which we are going through and trying to find out what the number of cases are, the correct test to be done is the one which has been done right now, one in the RT-PCR. Once you go to an antibody test, these antibodies develop after the virus has come into the body, and this can take anything around average 7 to 10 days. So if we don't test at that point of time, it is -- it might become positive. But this is not the strategy for acute cases. For asymptomatic case, maybe people who are contacts of positive cases, they could be seen with this -- tested with this kits, but it's all hearsay right now. No country in the world [indiscernible]. Later on, the antibody test also [indiscernible] to be device at best is developing immunity. So to your question, right now, there is no place as of today of detecting active cases. We are trying to do that of the antibody test. And this is up to the government of India, where they might feel that the virus load has come down all over India, then they might introduce the antibody testing. So right now, the answer is no.

Okay, very clear. Sir, with your permission, it's final one. The cynical mind says that there are companies with many years of research coming out with the testing kits and versus our Indian company, which has come up with a 6 weeks of effort and maybe not that well established. So is there a room for cynicism here and that the accuracy of this Mylab or the ability to supply may not really match up?

You see the -- what they are saying the Indian company has said in effect that they were given permission to go ahead with the manufacturing of this kit only 12 weeks back. That's what they have said, but they have been working on this for the last 8 years. Make no mistake. It cannot be done from scratch in 12 weeks' time or 12 -- 3 months time or 6 months' time. So make no mistake. And this has been approved, it has stood the test in the ICMR at various times, and it is completely okay, and we are finding the same that the kit is absolutely up to the mark. No problem.

The next question is from the line of Abhishek Sharma from IIFL.

Just 2 questions from me. So in the earlier part of the call, you basically took us through the sort of the testing kit. I wanted to know the same about PP equipment. How many PPE gear do you need per test per patient to be tested?

You need the 1 PPE per patient. So you can't reuse it for any other collection that you have. So it's a simple equation. But the challenge is not only for collection of COVID sample, not a challenge probably, which is coming up is that the person who is being diagnosed positive for COVID or suspected to be COVID, also may require a PPE kit because we had to take care of our -- safety of the patient as well as for our own employee. So my sense is even non-COVID collection also will require a PPE kit. So PPE kit requirement is actually going to sharply move up compared to even testing kits. PPE kits are required by hospitals as well because any health care worker who is dealing with any kind of patient, even now patients are also -- non-COVID patients also want to be careful with this kind of stuff. So PPE consumption actually is going to go up very sharply in times to come.

So [indiscernible] takes 2 kits per test -- per sample collection?

It's actually 1 kit at the time of collection, then there are several other protective gears we require when the sample reaches the lab because the guy who is actually opening the box also has to be protected from all that. So there are a lot of these protection kits which are available. So the demand for protection kits is actually going to move very sharply.

And just -- hello? Yes. And just wanted to know, do we have local vendors for PPE kits or these are imported?

Bharath is actually on the line. Very good question. But right now, there are no Indian manufacturers, so to say, and they are assembling the stuff. And hopefully, in the next few days, something should come up. So they were all importing these PPE and they were coming from China because of the cost factor. So right now, many Indian manufacturers have woken up. Hopefully, in the next very few days, we will have an Indian-manufactured kit.

Right. And you expect that to scale up sufficiently to be able to supply to the local needs?

Absolutely.

The other question is on the PCR machine. If you've looked around trying to procure new PCR -- sorry, PCR machines, what kind of waiting times are you seeing right now in the market?

Bharath?

Yes. So we have identified machines which are ready in stock available, although it's placed abroad currently, but we have worked out a plan. If we have to bring it in, we'll bring it in.

So the PCR machine is easily available. That's not a constraint?

We can get it. I don't think that will be greater -- very big challenge in the short term.

Next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived PMS.

For the Eastern region, are we going to ICMR or the local government to showcase the intra-capability which you've build and saying we can do the test if required or no?

Yes. I think that's a good question. It's a work in process because it's not only we will have facility in place, it requires certain NABL approvals as well. So that work is in -- currently work in process, and we are hoping that very soon, we should get approval for Kolkata as well.

Okay. Understood. And secondly on the Rohini lab, which you currently mentioned, which is doing most of the test in and around Delhi and [Technical Difficulty]. So what are we doing to ensure safety, sanitization, demarcation? If you could throw some light.

Yes, actually, that's a primary requirement basis on which the approval has come. So there are certain standards -- biosafety standards all that actually has been validated and verified by any bill, then only we have got approval. So it's been as for the laid down protocols.

Next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from Angel Broking.

As the diagnostic industry is just talking like they would breakeven at 4,500. Can you just give me some idea about the 4,500 cost, is the cost for equipment, the agenda personal, broadly?

Well, I think very large part of cost is also the collection because there's a PPE kit, which is involved. I may not be in the position to give you exact figure, but significant cost actually goes in collection of the samples. And then safety of our employees. And at the same time, because this needs to be transported in a specially designed box, it should not get mixed up with the other samples. So a lot of cost also goes in transportation. And then there is a -- I think a lot of people are talking about the kit costs by various manufacturers. That's only actually our last stage of testing. Once you get the sample inside the lab, there is an extraction, which is there, with the amplification of the material. That is a separate process altogether. The kit doesn't cover that. And this kit is only the last stage of testing. So there are a lot of costs actually are incurred before -- even before the sample actually hits the machine. So a lot of costs are actually there in collection, a lot of costs are there in transportation as well. The exact figure, I may not have readily available, but just for the sake of saying that, the kit cost is only a fraction of the cost of the total cost of reporting a test.

Okay. Okay. Understood. Just last one question from my side. As we know the business is down, people are not going out of their home. Can you give some idea about how much percentage of business is down, is it 30% or 40%?

So I think it's -- whatever we have seen in the last few days, definitely a lot of representative of what is likely to happen, so let me not put a figure around there. But definitely, on a daily basis, we are seeing improvement because there was sudden fall when the lockdown was announced and slowly, slowly, slowly things building up. But I think as we talk about last 1 week, definitely, it's a significant impact, but I would hesitate to put a figure as to what extent that fall has been there because there's definitely not a representative of what is likely to come. And we are hoping if the lockdown is lifted then we should quickly come back to normalcy.

Next question is from the line of Shaleen Kumar from UBS.

Sir, most of my questions are already answered. Just again on the broader subject if you can tell us whatever you can share. So what kind of demography of the patient -- the test samples you're getting?

So I think the samples, which are discretionary in nature are impacted the most. Like entire wellness portfolio has completely grown. And even OPD's has told hospitals, elective surgeries are not happening. So I think where you have no other options, but to get tested. Mostly, they are fever-based samples, somebody is having very high fever who wants to get tested. Obviously, they also want to rule out that everything is fine, whether it's related to H1N1, et cetera. So I think a lot of fever-based testing is what we are getting. But any other testing which can be pushed off -- pushed to later date, I think that there will be a bigger impact on us.

Sir, what's the kind of age profile of these tests? If you can share broadly.

Age profile, I don't think I have that number. We are at different locations. Bharath, do you have some idea?

A large portion of it is young people who may have traveled abroad and so on. This is for the COVID business, right?

Yes, yes. COVID business, COVID business.

Yes. The large portion of it is young population.

No, no...

Whatever -- so whatever small number that we have got. So I don't know whether that's a representative also by that way, because that's a very small number. But I think out of that, whatever we got, a very large population is younger population. And our hypothesis is that most of these guys may be the ones who have traveled abroad.

Sure. Sure. If you can share, up to you, like whatever the number of tests you have done and number of positive cases you have seen, ballpark percentage?

I think we would refrain from that because I'm actually disturbed about this question. I think ICMR is declaring. We are giving all the data to ICMR. And you can see their website. Actually, they are updating it on a real-time basis. So that I think is more representative data because that is an all India picture of tested and how many are positive. So I think at a company level, we would not be like to share.

For sure. For sure, for sure. So if I heard you really, you said 1,500 tests per day, is that the right number for you?

Sorry, I missed that. What did you say?

The number of COVID test you can do per day, the number -- is it 1,500 you said?

Yes. I think our estimated capacity is above 1,500 tests per day as of now. But we will -- we are evaluating it on a daily basis. If need be, we'll augment this capacity by buying more machines.

We move to the next question from the line of Surajit Pal from Prabhudas Lilladher.

There are a few issues which we are observing in Mumbai. So basically, you say more of the guys who are correcting. So first of all, is that -- which we learned. And I just want to understand that what is the situation in North particularly in Delhi. Is that in Mumbai. Some of the private guys who are calling the private players are asking them to come in a civil dress, rather than a specific dress, which help them to get out of this problem. So that the neighbors cannot complain. And as a result of it, when this guys denied, so this requirement failed down sharply. So the guys who had some symptoms they want to test themselves, that number has reduced quite drastically in some of the guys over here. It is the same in Delhi?

No, we haven't faced any such...

So people are asking that protective gear you guys put on?

Yes, there is a laid down protocol. We are following that protocol, and we are not deviating from that.

Okay. And another point is that when you receive the collection? So do you give preference to the government order or addresses where you have to collect, usually the private request where somebody wants to get themselves test?

We have private request, so people are reaching out to us. So there are multiple ways they can reach out through call centers, et cetera. But we have told them very clearly what documents they must have. They have -- they should have a doctor's prescriptions. Unless we are satisfied that they have all the supporting documents till then we don't execute any such orders. So those -- I don't think all the orders are actually private orders to us, people are reaching out to us directly. And many of the hospitals are also reaching out because some of the patients are already admitted to the hospital. So there also our people are going and collecting samples. In fact, most of our samples, if I'm not mistaken, are more from hospitals in proportion to home calls.

Yes. Yes. Okay. So basically, what you are saying is that currently you are utilizing the full is that currently you are utilizing the full capacity of $1,500 per day?

No, no, no, no. We are not -- we don't have kit, that's what I said. We are not utilizing that capacity at all. You don't know how we need to go actually. It's actually in the last 7 days, it's been a few hundred only. So capacity utilization is not -- we are yet to go to that level.

Only 10%, 15% times, right?

Maybe yes.

The next question is from the line of Manish Poddar from Nippon India.

If I heard you right, did you mention that things have stabilized post the lock down? Is that right?

Yes. We are an essential COVID [indiscernible] . So I think most of you are, for whatever reason, are asking a lot of questions related to COVID. I think as a management team, I'm more focused on the non-COVID business because there are health care issues in general in population. It's not that those issues will suddenly disappear. So I think I want to ensure that our system is -- I think the first task that we have, our infrastructure should be open to service our patients. And second task is to assure our -- the patients that we are taking all the safety precaution and they do not need to hesitate to come and call us, I think, for an in time. And it's just about a week. You can only push many of these things about week, 10 days, 15 days, but we can't push it for long, right? And I also must say that local authorities are supporting us because everybody is realizing that -- and I think there are a lot of orders are being circulated, where clearly, they have mentioned that Dr. Lal PathLabs team is actually allowed to move around. So -- and our employees are -- and I must recognize that they are actually at the forefront of taking the challenge on and I'm getting full support from all of them. So for us, even non-COVID business is equally important because that's what our over shipping. And I'm sure that, that is going to improve. We are actually tracking this on a daily basis and already seeing improvement on a daily basis. So we want to make sure that we serve our patients even during lock down period itself, we are just not sitting idle and saying, now it's lockdown only after lockdown, I'll -- it's our responsibility and sense of beauty and everybody is rising to the superior and [indiscernible]. So on COVID business also is improving as the base grew by.

Well, would you say then this COVID thing then is more noise than actually thing because you've done 40,000 tests, let's say, if I look at the numbers which are reported, and you're saying it's not much of a thing and things should stabilize that in the next 15, 20 days. Then is that how you're reading it? Is that --

No, no. I am actually saying that as a company, right now, we test about 60,000 samples a day, right? That's the kind of 60,000, 70,000 patients today. In relation to that, and I now have a fixed cost infrastructure, is it supporting that kind of volume, right? I have to make sure I'm with this lockdown if that has fallen very sharply -- I must make sure that, but that also starts coming back and our infrastructure is open. Our people are there to service our patients. So that is also equally important. That's the point I'm saying. I'm not saying that COVID is small or high. Of course, COVID right now, we don't know how frankly it's going to be there. And we hope that at a national level we come out of this crisis, and we don't have that. We are not hoping that COVID should go up. But I want to actually service non-COVID business as well, that is a point I am trying to make.

The next question is from the line of Tushar from Motilal Oswal.

Just on the -- while the kit shortage might get resolved over a period of, let's say, a week or maybe 4, 5 days' time. But I just would like to understand how has been the prescription rate per se, particularly for the COVID team? I mean, is that much more than what the samples has been collected today? Or even that is still much lower than what you had expected?

Right now, I don't think it is -- it is -- it's actually very small right now, it's not a very large number to write. Because ultimately, doctors are in a better position to assess that whether people have those symptoms or not. But as far as the prescriptions are concerned, because our demand is prescription needs to be submitted by a doctor...

Can I be allowed to go off. I have got something else to do?

Sorry. So our demand actually is more by prescription and prescription is a function of what doctors are seeing in the patient. And right now, that number is not really very large. We still have a capacity to service, meaning that kits are available. And we have a capacity -- enough capacity, which is close to 1,500 per day. I don't think we are getting request even though that is equal to that number also. So requests are also in few hundreds only on a daily basis. We are not to the extent of 1,500. It may be just about -- maybe about 10%, 15% of what our capacity is right now.

So is it like a deadlock kind of a thing wherein the diagnosis doesn't happen and then we're not sure, whether the COVID is -- whether this outbreak is there in India or not there?

So I -- as I repeatedly keep saying that, I probably won't be in a position to comment on this particular topic because a lot of these questions are being asked in general. I think as a company, we can only comment on what samples that are flowing in to us.

The next question is from the line of Shubham Gandhi from Primeup Capital.

Getting my voice?

Yes. Clear.

I just wanted to understand, apart from COVID, what is the structural changes that industry is observing? Or maybe any high-level comment like going forward or unorganized to organized segment or something like that? I mean, how other players are positioned? And what can be the new drivers of the growth?

I think that's an interesting question. I was hoping that this question should -- we'll get asked earlier. As the insulation is flowing, a lot of -- lot of labs are under some kind of stress because more smaller labs are actually shut. And I have a feeling that a lot of these people will find themselves in a unviable condition. And structural scene that I see that a lot of consolidation on testing should take place. While many of these labs should become a front-end partner for convert into a collection center is what I actually can foresee the scenario. For a larger player, regional and even larger player because 50% of our -- this whole hub-and-spoke model is a fixed-cost structure. If the non-COVID business or the kind of fall everybody has, if operationally, some companies are not able to actually come out of this, this will create stress and trigger a consolidation move as well, is what I feel.

Okay, okay. And we -- maybe looking forward, I understand this is not the right priority, but going forward in that segment?

Yes, obviously, actually, more you think about this, scale economies are good for everybody. I think it's most beneficial for the patient because if you pick up the sort of history of pathology space in India, last 10 to 15 years, prices effect actually have been going only southwards, declining grossly, if you adjust it for inflation. And that has primarily happened because of this hub-and-spoke model, we've built scale. That's why it has happened. And given this capacity and the kind of investment companies have been able to make in high-end instruments like RT-PCR or cytogenetics or FISH testing, all that actually has been possible because companies have built scale in the last 10 to 15 years. But lot of the scale actually is -- see, right now regionally later. And I do believe that there is space to build a scale at a nationally later. And to my understanding, that scale will definitely help our country. First, to start with patients; second, to bring new technology in India. Because there are a lot of advanced technologies that are available and also machines, which can -- which have very, very high throughput and automation that can commit the scale that will be good for the country. And of course, shareholders of these companies as well because as we create -- and that's what actually 2 large companies, if you look at Quest and LabCorp. They are built to scale at a national level in a big way. And those companies have become big, not just organic, it also has been -- there has been a consolidation move also there.

Next question is from the line of Siddharth Bhattacharya from Anvil Wealth, please go ahead. Mr. Bhattacharya your line is in talk mode. As there is no replies from the current participant, we move to the next question from the line of Sachin Kasera from Svan Investment.

Sir, just two questions on logistical. You have mentioned that right now most of the kits are being imported. Now since the entire incoming interstate traffic has been banned, so how are we trying to import? Are we facing some challenges from importing also because of these issues?

I think those issues are addressed by the vendors. I think there is -- I think it's vendor who has actually got manufacturing in India as well. So it's not that all the kits are imported. Mylab has been manufacturing in India. So I don't know, I think is the kit, which is approved, which has a plant in Germany, is what I'm told, but there are U.S. FDA kits with many companies like [indiscernible]. They're all importing it. So there is a company, which is manufacturing in India as well.

Okay. And secondly sir...

As for the challenge, which is there is not only manufacturing, but also getting the kits to our lab also because that's the second challenge. Because I think their manufacturing plant is in Pune, and the kit samples fly to Bombay and then to Delhi. And so right now, we are in midst of getting that also sorted out.

Yes. So that was exactly my question. So both in terms of, as you have mentioned that the kits maybe manufactured at some other location while you need in Delhi. So from what we understand, this is all part of essential services. So despite that, we are facing challenges in terms of moving them, both this as well as you also mentioned that today, you're not able to test outside Delhi because of, again, logistical issues. There is what we would understand is that it's being issued as part of essential services, and hence, there should be a free movement of the samples out of Delhi to the Delhi center.

So which is getting resolved. So I think this issue was in the first 2 days, but more or less things are stabilizing. But having said that, it's not that we are having a huge backlog of samples, also which are yet to be tested. So it's not that kind of situation as well. So I think things are getting sorted out and authorities are really cooperating on this aspect. While overall movement is restricted, but I think everybody is trying their level best to get tough moving to our lab. But having said that, it's not that we are sitting on a large number of samples which are yet to be tested also.

Sure, sure. So as we move forward, you see challenges in terms of both production and sourcing as well as the logistical movement getting much better than what it is today?

I think so. I think it's just a question of few days. So this whole topic of kit shortage should just go away is my reading.

Next question is from the line of Abdul Puranwala from Anand Rathi.

Sir, just one question regarding this COVID testing. I'm sorry to bother you again on -- repeatedly on those. So how many -- once the patient has been detected by the COVID-19, how many number of tests would he had to take till he -- does the negative outlook comes out and he's finally classified as not having that symptom again. So I mean, is there any color you would like to put forward, sir?

I'm sorry, actually, Dr. Lal is not on the call and I don't think I am competent to answer this. But my sense is doctor or a physician would be the better person to address that. I know there is some guidelines on that. But I don't think I can comment on that.

Mr. Nayak your line is in talk mode. Kindly go ahead with your question.

So I am just having 2 questions. One is to this ICMR, the data that stores around 26,790 test of individuals by 27th of this month. Is it the correct data for what the ICMR is putting? Or is there is something different as far as the individual testing is concerned?

As I, again, repeatedly saying, I have no comments to offer because I don't have any knowledge of in that level because that's a nodal authority, they will have a much more clear picture. So I can speak only about our company per se. So I'm so sorry that I don't have any response to your question.

Okay. Sir, can you please give us a sense of how the test is being conducted for the COVID is concerned in a brief manner? There is no -- cost wise, if you can throw some light that would be helpful?

So as a layman, I am, again, I'm -- if you underline this, I'm not a technical person. As a layman, there are 3 or 4 processes, which are very important in this. Number 1, is when you get a request for a test that itself is a task because you need to make sure that, but that requisite for test is supported by a doctor's subscription and there is something called Form 44, which is nothing but a guideline for a doctor to prescribe the test. The second important part is where is the sample collected? Is it collected from home? Or is it collected from hospital? I think that is the most critical step in this collection. Because if you don't collect it from the right place then you actually may miss the virus itself. That is the most critical part of this entire test that is collection of a sample and in that collection, you not only have to collect the right sample, but also you have to ensure the safety of our own employee, again that is where he is risking himself by getting exposed to patient. And you and I are still sitting at our homes and having these calls. But for those health care workers, who are at front line, they are facing this day-in and day-out. So that collection piece is very important. Taking this transportation of this virus. It's a very fragile virus. It needs to be transported very well because it actually may decay, while being transported itself. So that's a second step. Third is once it reaches the lab, then the entire box, the entire sample has to be carefully opened, which is the -- in the lab -- inside the lab. I think somebody asked a question, do you have all these norms of biosafety, et cetera? So a technical team in the lab has to probably open. So these three steps are very, very important steps. Collection, transportation and testing because you may lose the virus in the process.

Next question is from the line of Sahil Chotalia from M3 Investment.

Yes. My questions are answered.

We move to the next question from the line of Nikhil Mathur from AMBIT Capital.

My question is a bit related to how the output looks post the current deception we find ourselves in. Now if I look into quarterly patient numbers for 9 months FY '20, Dr. Lal was doing the run rate of 3.8 -- 4.8 million to 5.3 million kind of patients being addressed in a particular quarter. Now once the situation normalizes, what would it take for you to reclaim those patient levels? And just a question linked to this. During demonetization as well, there was quite a bit of deception that happened in this post demonetization. So is there some learning from that event that you might want to deploy in the current situation, once the situation normalizes?

So our experience -- I think that's a good question. So my experience of past sort of -- I've been in this space for 10, 15 years now. Every time we've had long holidays like Diwali or Navratras, when the business dips. I have noticed that after we are out of that sort of a lull period, there is a pent-up demand which suddenly comes. So I don't think that whatever we're losing now is a complete loss, it is my reading. So having said that, I'm not guiding you guys to think that everything will be fine, but I do believe that some of that demand tends to come back. And we've seen that in -- during demonetization also and slowly, slowly demand does come back. And I think what is very important for us will be; a, making sure our infrastructure is available to the patient because if our collection centers are not open, if some of these smaller labs that outsource to us or hospitals, they are not doing OPDs, then the business will be impacted. And I'm presuming after lockdown, all this will open because today, patients are not able to go out in the market at all and only emergency cases are going out. So I presume it will come back. The second most important thing would be movement of samples because a large part of our business actually depends on samples moving from point of collections to point of testing. Because our Delhi business is just about 40-odd percent, the 60% of our business is coming from outside Delhi, which is entirely dependent on logistics and supply chain. So I think that should really be smooth. And I think the positive news is that most of our business of outside Delhi NCR also comes from rest of north, which actually can travel by road also because entire Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Rajasthan, Western UP, Cental UP, lot of it actually can move by road also. I think in these times, people want to get tested from a good quality lab, they are a little okay with the not so-good turnaround time, everybody understands this. So my sense is sooner or later if the lockdown gets lifted, we should start seeing the curve moving upward again. So I'm pretty hopeful because we are in the business of essential services and trust is very important factor for creating a pool for a business in this kind of category. So we are very hopeful that we should be able to come out of this soon.

Okay. And just a question linked to this. But over the years, you would have also seen a shift in consumer patterns, the consumer behavior would have changed a bit over the years. Sir, post this event, how do you see the consumer behavior evolving? Would there be more -- I mean, I feel early days, but can there be a situation where people go for more preemptive test, more kind of general standard test and be -- look to take general care of themselves that will be more preemptive than just going for reactive kind of whole proposition?

I think so, because it's very clear that this sudden shock to all of us will definitely bring health as a #1 priority because if we -- the health is the most important wealth. So awareness about health care in general, will go up, and people will be familiar with what these antibodies are, what the antigen is, what the PCR tests are. I think general knowledge in the system has just gone up and people will definitely start taking care of their health. I do believe that health care will definitely undergo a few change. And all of us both and a policy makers, they will have a relook at, at a global level in terms of how this has to move. In terms of how people look at health, I think there are new things which will emerge. They are not -- I can't think of diagnostics right now, but people are already talking telemedicine for hospitals and seeing a doctor and recently some articles from China has come where telemedicine just becoming a way of life there. So a lot of -- and not only anything which is helping you to have a social distance because -- will definitely help, and now people are saying like how do I actually get health care remotely. So anything which is remote in nature will definitely be deceptive. So I don't think right now, we're in position to apply our mind, but once we are out of this firefighting, definitely a new order should emerge. This is the answer I have.

That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

So thank you very much. I know there is lot of -- there are lots of questions which I couldn't actually answer directly, but I just want to reassure you that as a management team, we try our level best and put all our operating experience we have gathered over a period of time, and hopefully, we come out of this. Thank you once again.

Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Dr. Lal PathLabs, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.