Dubai Islamic Bank P.J.S.C. (DIB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Dubai Islamic Bank Full Year 2023 Financial Results Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions]. I will now hand over to your host, Janany Vamadeva from Arqaam Capital to begin. Janany, please go ahead when you’re ready.

Thank you, Adam. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. This is Janany Vamadeva and on behalf of Arqaam Capital, I'm pleased to welcome you to Dubai Islamic Bank Q4 Full Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call. I have with me here today from DIB management, Dr. Adnan Chilwan, the Group Chief Executive Officer; John Macedo, the Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Kashif Moosa, the Head of Investor Relations and Strategic Communications. Without taking further delay, I'll now turn the call over to the Head of Investor Relations, Kashif Moosa. Kashif, over to you.

Thank you, Janany and welcome, everyone, to the 2023 full year results webcast of Dubai Islamic Bank. The session is led by Group CEO, Dr. Adnan Chilwan, accompanied by John Macedo, the Chief Financial Officer; and myself. Requesting everyone to keep the questions coming through the e-mail provided, and they will be then addressed at the end of the presentation. So with that, let's start. We now move on to Slide 4. Here, as you can see, the Brent oil price has witnessed severe volatility during the course of the year, impacted by demand concerns, geopolitical risks and OPEC production supply cuts. But ended the year at almost $80 a barrel, creating a healthy resistance level for the region. U.S. Fed, on the other hand, caused its rate hike for the third time in December 2023 to primarily due to the softening of inflation, yet ending the year again between 5% to 5.5%, the highest levels seen in 16 years. In addition, the Fed changed its tone from Hawkish to Dovish potentially indicating rate cuts in 2024. World Bank is expecting lower global growth in 2024, forecasting 2.4% from 2.6% in 2023, signaling sluggish global trade and tight financial conditions. That said, on the other hand, EMEA region, the picture is a lot brighter. The World Bank expects an improvement in activity from 2%, 3.5%, from less than 2% in 2023, primarily on the back of resumption in oil production. Moving on to Slide 5. And close at home, the UAE economy has grown at an extraordinary rate across the major indicators. Non-oil GDP recorded strong growth of 5.9% year-on-year in 9 months of 2023, driven by expansion across aerospace, financial services and wholesale and retail sector. And PMI data also points to an acceleration in activity in quarter 4 of 2023, crossing the 57 point level, a steady level to sort of spill over into 2024. Turning our attention to Dubai and the most recent 9-month 2020 GDP is up by 3.3% year-on-year to just over AED 38 billion, primarily driven by the highest growth from accommodation and food sector. And this is in sync with the tourism sector, which continued its recovery, exceeding the 2019 pre-pandemic levels during the 9 months of 2023, receiving 12.5 million visitors, and that's up 22% year-on-year and exceeds the previous record registered in 2019 of 12.1 million residents. Cyber DSC, hotels and restaurants recorded real growth of 14% year-on-year, a testament to UA national tourism strategy of 2031, which aims to place the country among the top global tourism destinations. To further emphasize the city's focus on the development. This month, Dubai launched AED 32 trillion am economic plans, aiming to boost trade investments over the next decades under the overarching objective of doubling the size of the Merex economy. And finally, COP28 concluded in December with agreement to call on nations transition away from [indiscernible] and energy systems in just orderly an equitable manner in order to achieve the net 0 emissions by 2050, the goal of next year missions. Other agreements included setting up a loss and damage marker developing countries that are vulnerable to adverse impacts of climate change and the UAE Banking sector committing AED 1 trillion in sustainable finance and related activities by 2030 to name a few. With that, ramble, I will now hand over to Dr. Adnan Chilwan, the Group Chief Executive, will take you through the full year financial results. Dr. Adnan, please.

Thank you, Kashif. As always, I'll do a page turn highlighting our key achievements on each slide, after which I'll open the call for questions, trying to address and answer as many as possible. And finally, wrap up the call using the last 5 minutes to summarize certain key messages. On Slide 7, you can see that DIB has delivered remarkably buoyant set of results during the full year 2023 around profitability and particularly balance sheet metrics. Our focus on service excellence led to our financial position, expanding further to UAD 314 billion, which is also an outcome of executing our expansion strategy through new product and service offerings. DIB's core business, mainly financing and Sukuk investments were up by a steady 12% year-on-year, massively surpassing our full year guidance and contributing to solid total assets growth of around 9%. Our gross new underwriting and Sukuks, during the year equated to nearly AED 88 billion, up by 40% year-on-year. Despite repayments of around AED 44 billion and early settlements of around AED 15 billion, the net movement yielded a positive AED 29 billion in the portfolio, up threefold from AED 10 billion last year. Obviously, that has had a major positive impact on profitability, which you can see has jumped to 26.3% year-on-year and ended at around AED 7 billion, marking the highest net profit in the history of the bank. As a result, return on equity has improved by 300 basis points year-on-year to end at 20%, underpinning the bank's commitment to enhancing shareholder value. Overall, a steady set of results with all KPIs surpassing year-end guidance. On Slide 8, a look at our resilient balance sheet. Digging deeper into the performance, we have delivered balance sheet growth of 9% year-on-year to reach AED 314 billion. The bank's financing portfolio has grown by 7% year-on-year, ending at AED 199 billion, and the Sukuk portfolio has advanced by 31% year-on-year to reach to AED 68 billion. On the funding side, our deposits have increased by 12% year-on-year, equally supported by consumer as well as corporate accounts. Return ratios, which is return on assets and return on tangible equity, have outperformed our year-end guidance remaining securely positioned vis-a-vis our commitment to shareholders. Other vital metric like asset quality has improved tremendously, which will be explained in greater detail in the latter section of the presentation. On Slide 9, and I've mentioned that we've recorded the highest profitability in the history of the bank, a very positive story vis-a-vis the P&L. Total income has witnessed a 43% year-on-year increase and ended at around AED 20 billion. The bank's net operating revenue is up by 10% year-on-year and over the period has ended at around AED 8.5 billion. Net profit margin has registered 3.1%, exceeding our full year guidance, up 10 basis points compared to full year 2022. However, on a quarter-on-quarter basis, the net profit margin is flat as the high rate environment has impacted the cost of deposits. Despite a focus on quality risk-weighted assets to minimize capital consumption and improve asset quality, which would be visible later in the presentation, we have shown steady margin expansion by also deploying liquidity in our growing Sukuk portfolio, locking in lucrative rates over the next 5 years. Slide 10 looks at our profitability and cost structure. In this slide, I would like to highlight the main contributors to our net operating revenue advancement. First, the net funded income has increased 8% year-on-year, while nonfunded income came in even higher at a 23% increase. This rise is attributed to higher fees and commissions from corporate arrangement fees, certain gain on sale of properties and finally, other income, which comprises of a few one-off gains. Overall, the fourth quarter of 2023 nonfunded income was up by 48% year-on-year. OpEx has also seen some increase, up 11% year-on-year, in line with the bank's strategic growth plan, including system upgrades, digitization as well as investing in the support functions of the bank. Nevertheless, cost-to-income ratio is what we keep an eye on. That has remained well within our guidance at 27.1%. All of the above has led to a solid 26% year-on-year net profit growth in 2023, and it has ended at AED 7 billion and AED 2 billion in quarter 4, up by around 47%. Turning the page, Slide 11 looks at our deployment of funds. Assets have expanded by 9% year-on-year to reach AED 314 billion; gross disbursement in our financing portfolio grew by AED 67 billion, while Sukuk have increased by AED 21 billion. This is the AED 88 billion gross disbursements that I alluded to at the beginning of the presentation. When you look at the pie below, the real estate concentration has remained intact at 18%, and this is in line with our guidance. Moving on a little deeper look at our individual businesses. We start with Consumer Banking on Slide 12. The portfolio is up by 8% year-on-year to end at $56 billion, and that constitutes around 27% of the total financing of the bank. This growth has been led by higher deployment within our auto finance business, our postal finance business as well as our small and medium enterprise business. Across all products, we have booked gross new business of around AED 22 billion within the consumer bank versus AED 18 billion in 2022. Despite routine repayments of around AED 17 billion, the consumer portfolio has exhibited positive growth for the year of almost AED 4.5 billion. Revenues in the Consumer Bank have been up by around 9% year-on-year and is have expanded by around 82 basis points to reach 6.7% underpinning healthy profitability. On a year-on-year basis, the consumer deposits have increased by 11%, and that has been contributed by our CASA, which on the consumer side has remained predominantly sticky, seemingly agnostic to the current rate environment. Slide 13 looks at our corporate banking business. The portfolio has increased by 7% year-on-year to reach AED 143 billion and remains very well diversified. On a year-on-year basis, the growth in financing is primarily driven by industries such as services, utilities, automobiles, certain increase within the financial institution sector as well. And you can see in the middle of the slide that our pie graph is very colorful in nature, just demonstrating the diversification that we have within our corporate banking book. I would also like to highlight that the bank has been consciously focusing on capital-efficient transactions in various industries, resulting in overall lower capital consumption as mentioned earlier. DIB will also continue to expand its rent by seeking to capitalize on opportunities within the GCC region to grow its portfolio. Within the Corporate Bank, our gross new corporate financing in 2023 was bolstered to around AED 45 billion, deployed across various regional clients and private sector, while repayments and our resettlements registered AED 37 billion. Now that has led to close to around AED 9 billion growth in the overall corporate banking portfolio. Revenue trends continue to be on an upward trajectory with revenues from the corporate business registering almost AED 3 billion, up by 1% year-on-year. Yields on the other hand, have expanded by around 263 basis points or 2.63% year-on-year, and that has ended at around 6.48%. The stellar yield expansion is attributed to increasing share of financing into industries fueling the UAE's economic growth. If you look at corporate deposits, overall, they were up by 12% year-on-year, while corporate CASA balances fell by 11% as these were rotated and migrated into Wakala or investment deposits. Slide 14 looks at our treasury business, our treasury portfolio, and this is primarily fixed income book has expanded to AED 68 billion from AED 52 billion at the end of 2022, and that's a growth of nearly 31% year-on-year. Nearly 3/4 of that Sukuk portfolio is sovereign, while 90% of the remaining is investment grade or above, underpinning high quality of this book. Yields in the fixed income book has expanded by around 58 basis points year-on-year to end at around 4.6% due to the incremental Sukuk Investments carrying higher coupons over the last 12 months. And that's just a reflection of the high interest rate environment and the issuances that are being done within the market. Revenues over the year have picked up by around 34% to end at around AED 2 billion. Slide 15 is a very important slide, and that looks at asset quality. Our nonperforming financing ratio has improved by around 110 basis points, and we've ended the year at 5.4%. This reflects healthy economic conditions in the UAE. And as you can see from the NPF chart, the nonperforming financing was lingering around 6% levels for quite some time. So that's a great achievement. We brought it down from 6.5% at the beginning of the year to around 5.4% at the end of 2023. Cash provision has increased accordingly, and they've ended at around 90%, starting the year from 78%. So that's up by around 12% on a year-to-date basis. Full year impairment charges have declined and they declined by around 34%. In fact, Q4 witnessed some reversals and recovery. As a result, our cost of risk for the full year has been trending downwards, and we've ended the year with a cost of risk of around 60 basis points from 85 basis points in 2022. This is obviously a reflection of improving asset quality as well as recoveries, uncertain reversals that we have seen and the downward trend ending the year at around 60 basis points is something that we are really proud of. Slide 16. We look at asset quality in greater detail. Here, I would like to highlight the main reason behind the improvement in asset quality, and this emanates from core nonperforming loans or nonperforming financing of DIB and that has improved from 5.4% and ended at 4.5%. As you know, within the pie graph that you see on the right of the slide, we try and show you our core nonperforming loan of DIB and also throw some light on a particular account, NMC as well as we throw some light on the Noor POCI transaction that we had done. So you can see that DIB's score nonperforming financing ratio stands at 4.5%. And overall, we have trended downwards from 6.5% to 5.4% on an overall basis. Recoveries from NMC and Noor POCI are ongoing, which have resulted in a decline of around 14% in their nonperforming financing accounts. Accordingly, NEC's coverage ratio stands at around 80%, and that continues to increase as we progress. Slide 17, we look at asset quality in stages. Our quality growth agenda has resulted in the average risk rating improvement across the bank's portfolio. And as you can see in the above chart, that is also reflected in the various stages. Stage 2 financing has decreased to AED 14 billion, and that's a very positive outcome for us, and that's down by around 8% year-on-year, a combination of an improvement in average risk rates, coupled with a number of large accounts moving back to Stage 1 after they have completed the curing period. This has led to an improvement in Stage 2 exposure. Stage 2 coverage accordingly has improved from 7.4% to 9.1%. Slide 18 looks at our funding sources and liquidity of the bank continues to remain strong with an LCR of close to around 189%, allowing the bank to meet short-term obligations. CASA stands at AED 82 billion; accounting to 37% of overall deposits, and that has been stable quarter-on-quarter. The consistent elevated rate environment continued to see migration of CASA deposits into Wakala deposits. Slide 19 looks at capitalization position. Our capitalization levels remain robust with CET1 at around 12.8% and capital adequacy ratio at around 17.3%, both well above the minimum regulatory requirements. The capital ratios reflect the proposed dividend as well as the risk-weighted asset growth. We are proposing a dividend of 45% dividend per share, and that is obviously subject to shareholder approval during the annual general assembly. Slide 20 looks at our digitalization efforts, and our digital drive saw another significant year with the launch of various new enhancements and new propositions. The year, we saw the launch of alt, a full-service digital banking service from DIB where customers can get value-added services such as open bank accounts in minutes, get personal finance or credit cards within quick time. And with this new proposition, our customers have access to close to around 135 digital banking services. DIB's key digital metrics continue to grow as you can see in the bar charts where areas such as mobile banking, Internet banking penetration continue to demonstrate strong growth levels. Slide 21 looks at our sustainability. The bank's sustainable registers has shown remarkable progress in the past year as a result of our growing innovative suite of sustainable products. To name a few, we've launched, Nest, EVolve, DIB all that I have already referred to. We have also established ourselves as market leaders in facilitating sustainable Sukuks with over AED 12.9 million in transactions and are committed to deliver value to our stakeholders while contributing to the sustainability agenda. Our participation in COP28 as an associate pathway partner demonstrated our result towards sustainability and climate action evident through the signing of UAE climate responsible companies pledge. Our financial literacy program to empower the youth in the field of finance, providing them with valuable information and resources has reached over 50 schools within the country and touched 4,000 students since the very inception. This year, we also held a huge financial empowerment forum in recognition of schools that joined the financial literacy campaign recognizing their contribution to a prosperous and sustainable future. As a part of our commitment to promote climate action and environmental consciousness, we have embarked on a green initiative to plant a tree for every new customer who opens an account with us, an initiative, which has already seen 51 trees to life, and we are not stopping there. The bank has also committed to more than AED 549 million towards community well-being and humanitarian causes, which has benefited around 90,000 beneficiaries. Slide 22 is our sustainable finance side. We are strongly committed towards mobilizing sustainable finance in line with the UAE's 2030 ambitions. Following COP28, we together with the UAE Banking Federation have committed to mobilize around $1 trillion over the coming years to drive global sustainable finance and facilitate global climate finance solutions. The bank has proactively embarked its journey earlier on this front with the publication of our sustainable finance framework in the summer of 2022. Then we followed that by 2 issuances of sustainable Sukuks on in November 2022 and the next one in February 2023, both totaling to around $1.75 billion. The outstanding sustainable Sukuk proceeds have been 100% fully allocated towards eligible green and social assets. On the bottom left pie chart, you will see a breakdown of this allocation wherein social assets are around 53%, and that is represented by the Burgundy color. Access to essential services, affordable housing and employment generation are some of the items that can be included within that portfolio. On Slide 24, we look at certain summary highlights, and you can see that it has been a stellar year for the bank with a new financing and Sukuk underwriting to the tune of AED 88 billion. When you strip out the early settlements and normal repayments from that, we are left with a portfolio growth of close to around AED 29 billion, and that's up 12% year-on-year. That is important because as interest rates would start to fall within 2024, a larger book would allow us to make better income, and that's been always a strategy that we have articulated. Our commitment to this growth is also depicted to our balance sheet, which has expanded by around 9%. Our asset quality has improved from the beginning of the year, and we've gone down from 6.5% and ended the year with 5.4%. Our coverage ratio, cash coverage on the other hand, has increased from 78% and ended at around 92%. And our total coverage has also increased from 113% to 121%. So all in all, if you look at our target metrics and the 8 metrics that we measure ourselves sells throughout the year quarter-on-quarter. Our full year guidance has been surpassed across all these 8 metrics. Our financing and Sukuk growth or our total growth, we had started the year with a guidance of 5%. We enhanced that guidance and changed it at the middle of the year to 7.5%. Happy to say that we ended the year at around 12%. Our nonperforming financing guidance was for the year to end at around 6.25% and we've ended the year at around 5.4%. Our real estate concentration guidance was to be at 20%, and we have ended the year at around 18%. Net profit margins, we bettered our year-end guidance and again, taking advantage of higher interest rate environment, we could have done better on our cost of funding side, but our CASA accounts have rotated and migrated into Wakala deposits. Nevertheless, our net profit margin has ended at 3.1%. Total coverage, not just cash coverage of movement from 78% to 90%, but our total coverage has moved from 113% to 121%. We've kept a very close eye on cost-to-income ratio. We are well within guidance and ended the year at 27.1%. As a result, our return on tangible equity has seen a bump up 20%, and our year-end guidance was 17%. Of course, the denominator has also increased and it takes into account the profit retention that we are going to do after we pay a dividend of 45%, which is subject to shareholder approval. Slide 25, again, as customary, I always talk about some target metrics, and we set those for the full year. The strategic theme for the year will remain as dry. And if you recollect, that's a strategic theme that is driving the institution over the next 5 years, we started this in 2022. So we are in the third year of our 5-year plan and it's dry, so that continues to be digital transformation, robust foundation, increased value, versatile operation and engaging experience. And then we are also setting the guidance for the 8 key metrics that we do in the beginning of every year. So for 2024, you'll see that our growth projections on a bigger balance sheet are set at around 5%, and we'll see how that pans out quarter-on-quarter. And if required, we'll try and revisit this in the first half of 2024, just like we did in 2023. Our nonperforming financing, we've ended 2023 at 5.4%. So we'll try and end the year at 5%. That's going to be a function of numerator as well as denominator. We anticipate that we will close within this range. And in fact, we'll try and better this. Real estate concentration, again, 18% is what we want to maintain this act. Return on assets and return on tangible equity is being set at 2% and 18%, respectively. Now one might argue that with 2.4% return on assets and 20% return on equity, why are we trending down? Clearly, it's going to be a reflection of net profit. And as you know, the corporate income tax is being introduced for 2024 effective 1st of January. So that will have an impact on earnings. But obviously, if we look at the net profit before corporate income tax, I can say that we are going to be making progress in the right direction, and we anticipate to have better net profit on a pre-corporate income tax basis. But of course, the return on tangible equity and return on assets would be a result of the net profit after corporate income tax. And hence, you can see certain contraction. Cost-to-income ratio, we want to be at the similar levels of 2023 despite the transformation that we are doing despite the growth that the bank will see; we feel that we will be able to deliver a cost-to-income ratio of around 27%. Total coverage will only improve from here. In terms of cash coverage, we'll try and end with 100% cash coverage or more, and that would also reflect a total coverage moving from 121% to around 130%. And net profit margins; of course, this is factoring some interest rate reductions for the latter part of the year that would have an impact on yields on the asset side. Obviously, we'll benefit from better repricing of our Wakala deposits on the liability side. But net-net, we feel that it will be only prudent to keep a net profit margin target of around 3%. That brings me to the end of my page turn. I'm happy to open the call and the floor to take questions. We'll try and address as many as I can. But the last 5 minutes of the hour will be used by me to kind of bring your attention again to certain key messages and shed light on overall performance of the bank in a very summarized manner. So I'll pause here, and we'll try and go through the questions, and we'll also group them and try to answer them together.

[Operator Instructions]. We got our first set of questions from Janany from Arqaam. So the first question is around the 5% growth guidance for 2024. And so what's the rationale behind that? The second is around the rate cuts that you're facing, how many rigs are we factoring in the margin compression that we've guided for? And then what cost of risk are we expecting in 2024?

5% growth guidance for 2024. Of course, we saw a pickup from Q3 2023. We went into Q4, and I think the results are in front of you. We've done a full year growth of around 12%. Now mind you, 5% is on a bigger base, so that base has significantly increased, and it has increased by 12% year-on-year. So that's a bigger base. We want to start the year not getting ahead of ourselves. And again, in 2023, you recollect that we gave guidance of 5%. And when we got the first opportunity to reset that guidance, we changed that in line with our Q1 and Q2 performance, and we revised that to 7.5%. And then we ended the year at around 12%, and that was just a reflection of what we did in Q3 and Q4, which is something that we alluded to on all the calls that we were doing quarter-on-quarter. So we are starting the year with a 5% guidance. And if we meet that guidance sometime during Q1, Q2, we are always going to revise that guidance upwards. So this is not cast in stone, and we've already demonstrated that in numerous times in the last 3 or 4 years where we revised our guidance upwards. How many rate cuts are we factoring in this 10 basis points NIM compression? When we were forecasting these compressions and when we were putting these guidance, this was pre Dovish, and pre the comments coming from the Fed governor Waller. So we had, at that time, factored forward-looking [indiscernible] cuts, which were anticipating 5 rate cuts for 2024. If it's going to be anything different than that and let's say if it's going to be 3 or 2 cuts, then the net interest margin is only going to improve from here because we would take advantage of higher for longer. But for now, I think because these are approved by the Board of Directors, we have come and given the guidance to the market, but definitely, this can change when the interest rate environment continues to change. And this is a moving goal post, as we speak. So the narrative is now becoming more clearer, they are contained inflation. And if that happens, the recent data points that have come out are all pointing towards lesser number of rate cuts. And if that happens, we are going to take advantage of higher for longer. In terms of cost of risk, 2023, we had a very good year in terms of asset quality. Our cost of risk ended at 60 basis points. But I also mentioned that, that was on account of recoveries, certain reversals. But if we normalize our cost of risk, we would be guiding towards around 80 basis points, which is what has been consistent over the last 3 or 4 years.

[Operator Instructions]. We've got a few questions from Rahul from Citi. One is on the loan growth, and how is the outlook of UAE and those levers that are being aligned? And also the next one is on the provisions, which were minimal in quarter 4, so what was the reason for that? And finally, what is the sensibility to 25 to 100 basis points CAR in NIMs on the P&L?

Loan growth muted, and I think Janany also asked a similar question. One has to look at the full year because there are transactions that might not pan out in a particular quarter that will only go into the next quarter. So if you remember, we had a very strong Q1 2023, Q2 was a bit muted, Q3 was very strong, Q4 is muted. So not all the quarters are going to be consistent as long as year-on-year growth ambitions are met, one should be happy with the kind of growth that we have demonstrated. So Q4, yes, was muted from an absolute amount, but that's because there are transactions that did not materialize are in the pipeline, and you see them materialize in Q1 2024. So I think one has to look at the entire loan growth guidance and see where are we vis-a-vis that. Q1 2024 is looking very strong. So we'll take quarter-on-quarter and quarter by quarter. And like I mentioned to Janany also, if our 5% guidance is something that we will achieve sooner than later, then we are going to revise our guidance upwards. But right now, we are in an upbeat mood, macroeconomics is positive. You know the GDP forecast of the country that is anticipated to be 4.7% for 2024. And I think we are going to take advantage of that. We are seeing some very good traction, and there's a very strong pipeline that we are seeing across our wholesale bank. And our consumer banking business is also seeing very good traction. So we are only going to start from where we ended the year, which is on a very positive note. 0 provisions in Q4, you're absolutely right. And I mentioned that, that was on account of certain release of impairments that we had on certain accounts that were settled. And those recoveries then meant that the quarter-on-quarter provision was, in fact, a negative. We had close to around AED 12 million of quarter-on-quarter, you would say, credits as opposed to debit. On account of that Q4 recoveries, if you look at the full year, we ended up with a cost of risk of around 60 basis points. NIM sensitivity, again, no different than what I mentioned in the past, 100 basis points interest rate movement has AED 150 million P&L, a change. So if the interest rates moved down by around 100 basis points, 150 basis points AED 150 million of P&L impact will have to be factored in. Having said that, I've also mentioned this on our previous call that as the interest rate cycle moves downwards, given that our CASA mix is only 37% and our fixed deposit is 63%, when interest rates goes down or when interest rates start to move downwards, we will take advantage of that because majority of our book will be repriced. Because the 63% of our fixed deposits, which have a very high rate in today's high rate environment will be repriced, and we will take advantage of that. So I think DIB is in a better position when compared to some of its peers, given that the CASA mix is 37% only and the fixed deposit is 63%. So we will take advantage of that as interest rates start to decline.

[Operator Instructions]. We have a couple of questions from Shabbir from EFG. The first 2 questions, Shabbir have already been answered around the recoveries and also the NIM sensitivity. So we go in to question 3 and 4. The third question that you have looks at the credit quality trends in the real estate and mortgage portfolio? And also last one looks at, what kind of contribution we're looking to do towards sustainable finance going forward.