ECO Animal Health Group plc (EAH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, good afternoon, and thank you to all of those of you who have joined us promptly at 2 pm, so we shall make a start. And we're here today joined by ECO Animal Health, who announced their interim results. Yesterday, if you haven't seen it already, we've got a note up on our website. But the purpose to say here from the management team on results and take Q&A at the end, feel free to submit them ahead of time and I see one we have already. But for now, I will hand over to David Hallas to take us through the presentation.

Hello, everybody. Thank you very much, Hannah. Delighted to be here and take you through these first results. We move on to the executive summary. The highlights are illustrated on this next slide. We had a very strong revenue performance in the first half, particularly compared to last year. More excitingly, almost, we had improved margins and better EBITDA. The margins were driven by both improved pricing about 2.5 points, but particularly by improved cost of sales due to efficiencies and economic pull-through of volume benefits there. So that was very helpful, and we see that as being quite sustainable going forward. On the growth engine for our new products. We're delighted to announce in November post period end that the -- we received the first positive opinion for our first vaccine, positive opinion from the European Medicines Authority. That is the precursor to marketing approval. We expect that marketing approval to come in the first half of '26 and then we will launch in the second half of 2026 calendar year. What that means is that we have satisfied the regulatory authorities in Europe of all their scientific questions and all their regulatory questions and the marketing approval follows subsequently. So that is great. And that's great news, it's evidencing the effectiveness of our R&D and showing that we can deliver products out of the portfolio, which is great. Other regulatory submissions are underway. And just to pick out one in the U.S., the USDA, the regulatory authority of U.S., gave us approval of our pivotal efficacy study. There are field studies underway, and we expect approval, which is on track to the end of 2026. So all of that means that the first wave of innovation coming through our portfolio has a very, very high likelihood of success as evidenced by that positive opinion. And by the way, our positive opinion came 2.5 to 3 months earlier than we were expecting. Why was that? That was because there was a limited number and only one round of questions. That shows that the dossier was put together and the scientific evidence were very thorough and very solid. And beyond the first wave of our R&D innovation of the broader pipeline, the mid-stage portfolio development continues and is funded out of our profitability and the cash generation. And we will talk a little bit more about cash as we go forward. Next slide, please, Hannah.

Thank you, Hannah, and good afternoon, Chris Wilks, CFO. So just as David has introduced the flash performance has been very strong in this first half. Headline revenue increased 19% period-on-period, and that is at actual exchange rates as recorded. Bearing in mind that over 50% of our revenue typically in a typical period is in U.S. dollars. That means we were facing currency headwinds in revenue terms. So on a constant currency basis, like-for-like, it was 23% improvement compared with the first half last year. And that came through in principally China and North America. We'll describe that more further as we go through. But China was around -- was all about the disease profile. First half, there was quite a bit of disease around, and therefore, the demand for Aivlosin, our flagship product there was strong. And similar story in North America with a 30% increase in volume. Strong margins maintained despite geopolitics and tariffs and so forth by improving our pricing there and managing our supply chains into the U.S.A. Southeast Asia incorporates really the countries around -- Thailand is the main country of business there, but including Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia as well as India. And of all of those, it was India, which underperformed in this period and resulted in the decline period-on-period in revenue terms. That said, recent trading has been very strong, and we see a very much stronger second half for that segment and looking forward to a year-end, which is very much on target. In our smaller markets, Europe has been for a long time, quite a small market for us for Aivlosin. And that increased 14%, driven in large part by reorganizing some distribution within the continent as well as changing and improving our sales leadership. Within LatAm, LatAm incorporates 2 markets which we go direct to, so Brazil and Mexico as well as then all the other countries within Central and South America where we do business. And the highlight there was that Brazil improved its margins plus 11%. And that was because we took more product direct to market rather than going through distributions, very robust performance indeed. So the next slide just fills out some more of the financial highlights. Gross margin, David mentioned earlier on and we'll describe in more detail as to how we achieved that 9% improvement. And that fed through -- into improved adjusted EBITDA of GBP 3 million, an increased margin, again, we will describe that further. Earnings per share improvement. Net cash nicely sustained at above GBP 18 million, slightly up on where we were September last year. That cash generation resulting from profitable trade has given us the agency to go forward with our product development. And you will see that we have moved that along very nicely in the period and progressed the portfolio. So moving to the next slide, please.

So for those -- this introduces ECO for those perhaps don't know what our business is about and how we are revolutionizing the business with our R&D engine. Our existing core organic business consists of flagship product, Aivlosin. As evidenced by the results in this half, there's good longevity of revenue growth there, sticky revenue and, in fact, improved margins. We play into the need to control infectious disease worldwide. Aivlosin is extremely good for controlling respiratory disease, also has a play in enteric disease and is a great useful tool to manage complex disease like PRRSV as well as a major disease impact into swine globally. So we have a clinical edge with clear advantages over some of the competition, and there are relatively high barriers to entry, quality of the product, the technical support that we deliver and all those benefits of Aivlosin. We have also products beyond Aivlosin, this is just focusing on Aivlosin alone. Next slide, please. We have a clear strategic focus on preventative segment for our future growth and maintaining the core business and growing the core business. Why are we in these species? It's because there's an underpinned and sustainable global demographic trends, meaning that there is a greater demand for animal protein worldwide and a greater need to look after animals to deliver that protein demand. Next slide, please. Beyond our core business, we have this strong pipeline of R&D assets. We're investing in some traditional technology and also some cutting-edge high innovation technology. Why do we want to be in vaccines and prevent it? Because it's the fastest-growing segment in animal health and particularly in livestock, it's critically important to prevent disease where you've got such a lot of investment in your animals and such a need to look after them. We have delivered our first wave of innovation in terms of ECOVAXXIN MS. This is a poultry vaccine against the Mycoplasma disease, and we've achieved that regulatory milestone a couple of 3 months early. On our other near-term assets, 2 of which are included in the other near-term assets, ECOVAXXIN MG, which is another poultry vaccine for a different Mycoplasma disease and our long-acting Florfenicol, both possess a high probability of success because they are so advanced in the late-stage pipeline. On top of that, we have some high innovation products, for example, around monoclonal antibodies. We have 2 of those assets that we're focusing on, one that prevents and attacks the PRRS virus disease, which is a global disease of pigs, causes huge economic damage, certainly in the region of billions of dollars globally worldwide, around about $3 billion of damage done to the industry by that disease and its consequences and necrotic enteritis is a gut disease of chickens. And both of these areas, the current solutions, if there are any, there are gaps in the current ways of control, i.e., improvements to be made to get to a gold standard of care. So that's why we are investing in this area because there is a critical market need and a very, very high and large market need for this. And if you add all of our portfolio up and take a risk-adjusted look at our portfolio, we've got an NPV -- risk-adjusted NPV of well above $180 million. We're beginning to derisk some of that, particularly with the late-stage portfolio. Thank you. Next slide, please.

So moving on to more of the financials. This particular slide puts this first half revenue in the context of the last 4 years. And you see that this is a record first half. And I think we have suggested to by way of guidance in the interim statement and also in conversations with analysts that we are seeing a more even split between first half and second half. We will be second half weighted, as you can see from history, but because the key product Aivlosin treats respiratory elements, which are associated with cold weather and cold weather in the northern hemisphere is -- it occurs in our H2. So we will have a second half waiting again this year, but because of the strength of the first half, the guidance here is that it will be slightly less pronounced as regards the second half. So moving on to the next slide and looking further in more detail at the revenues. What you see here on the graph is the first half of this current financial year ended September '25 compared with each of the last 4 years. And you note here the strength in each of the markets. China, Japan, 48% growth. That is stronger first half than each of the last 3 years and only slightly lower than 4 years ago. So very, very good performance there. The U.S.A., this is the strongest first half we've ever had, an increase progressively on each year. In Asia, I referred to this earlier about the markets we talk about here. The largest market in the Southeast Asia portion of the segment is Thailand. And last year, we talked about the loss of a key customer in Thailand. Well, happy to report that, that customer is back buying us. And we supplemented that customer with others in Thailand. So returning to growth there and seeing good emerging growth and revenue opportunities in the likes of Vietnam, Philippines and so forth. In India, we have reported that the market has been slow this year. If you look at the egg price in India, it's been poor, meaning there's been pressure on producers and the demand for Aivlosin has been low in this period. Looking to H2, we see the demand returning certainly inquiry rates and distributor orders are strong. So we'll see how that pans out in the second half. It's all subject to cash flow and the requirements of the market balancing those 2 items. Latin America, I talked about this being about Brazil, Mexico and then all the other South and Central America countries. The comment there, distributor prior year excess stock. What that means is that in Mexico, in the Maine, where the routes to market are through distributors, we found that in case of a couple of distributors, they had excess stock towards the end of last year. And so this first half was about moving that distributor stock out into end users and normalizing that stock level, which we're happy to report is really now normalized at around the sort of 2 to 3 months stock level, which is where it should be. Europe, although small, saw growth this year and rest of world, which is really a wrap-up of Middle East, North Africa and 1 or 2 other areas. And that is seeing a nice small increase. Moving to the next slide, please, Hannah. Now moving to the very important piece around gross margins. And you see the 50% there that we've reported this year, 49.6%, higher than any prior period. So a very, very strong performance. And we put in there the September position compared to the full year 2025 compared to this first half, and you see the progression upwards. And the primary driver behind that is set out on the bridge. So notwithstanding that we have had a headwind on revenues around the U.S. dollar because we buy a large element of our input costs into cost of sales in U.S. dollars, that helps to hedge the revenue impact. So there's an offsetting component there of the negative 4% offset by the plus 2.6%. The biggest bar on this is the net cost of sales decrease. As David talked earlier, this is really about volume and efficiencies and harnessing that by way of cost reduction. So that is good and sustainable. That is an improvement in input cost, which is locked in. We also managed to improve our pricing pretty much across the board, some markets stronger than others, but that has fed through in price increases. That's also contributed to by slight changes in route to market. So I referred to Brazil earlier. We're taking more of the revenue direct to end user rather than sharing some of the margin with distribution. And that has also contributed to the net value increase, the net pricing increase. And then overall, we also benefited from a geographical mix. And this really is because some markets, the margins are higher than other markets. Clearly, if you sell more into certain markets, which have got a stronger gross margin, then that benefits the overall margin of the group. So moving up nearly 10 percentage points. Moving along, please, Hannah to other elements of the P&L. We have been investing heavily in R&D over the last 7 years. And the sort of investment rate in R&D, if you measure it, which is a percentage of revenue, has averaged sort of 9% to 12% over the period. If you do the calculation, this period was no different. And it's because of our high profitability, our high cash generation that we are able to invest at that rate. This year, we have invested GBP 2.7 million in early-stage programs, which is why it's expensed and GBP 1.9 million in later-stage programs. The late-stage programs are these 2 Mycoplasma poultry vaccine projects and the Florfenicol project, which David referred to earlier, and we'll speak about more as we go through the presentation. So moving along now to overheads. Overheads did move up. So H1 2024, GBP 10.7 million and H1 this year, GBP 14 million. Now why the step-up in GBP 3.3 million? Well, first of all, we took advantage of the increased profitability to do some balance sheet provisioning. And that is really to ensure that we've got a prudent position going towards our year-end, and that's really around receivables. But the biggest component really is directly linked to the financial performance. So a large component of the group's bonuses payable to staff are geared to financial performance. Last year in 2024, we were underperforming our internal targets, our budgets and therefore, the financial component wasn't going to pay out. Therefore, there's no accrual. This year, the reverse is true that, therefore, we see that we will end up paying a bonus at the end of the year, we accrue accordingly. And that story is most pronounced in China, where China traditionally has a low base of fixed salary and a higher component of variable, which is paid out in bonus form. A small effect, but measurable is the annualization started as well. That was last year, now paying a full 12 months in this year. So those are the components of the increase in overheads. But I wanted to show that actually GBP 14 million isn't completely out of kilter when you look at the second half of last year, which was also at that level. So moving to the next slide, please, Hannah. And here, you see again the pronounced second half effect, which is, of course, more pronounced when you get to profitability because of fixed component of overheads. Typically, the first half is below 5% EBITDA margin. But because we've been so strong this year, our first half is at 8%, which is a significant performance, and that's really the takeaway from the slide. So turning to the balance sheet now, please. The biggest numbers on the balance sheet as ever are working capital numbers. And here, you see the continuing strength of the balance sheet, the continuing good management of those working capital numbers. GBP 16 million of inventories compares favorably with GBP 16.7 million this time last year. It's an increase on the year-end because we're now approaching that busy period of our second half where we have higher trade and therefore, we have to gear up the inventory level, which is why it's higher than the 14.6 million at year-end. The other element, which is directly related to cash is our receivables position. And you see a meaningful improvement in receivables compared to prior periods. And that translates into debtor days where you see that measured against revenues we've got and we've got more efficiency coming through in the use of cash in that item. Cash itself is at GBP 18.6 million compared to GBP 18.3 million this time last year. That GBP 18.6 million for anybody who has looked at the structure of the ECO Group, as a reminder, our China business is -- it operates as a joint venture where we own 51% -- we ECO owns 51% of that company. But because we have absolute control of that company, it is consolidated in accounting terms, which means we bring in 100% of the balance sheet, 100% of cash. Now cash repatriation from China is done each year in the spring by way of a dividend. And the dividend process, therefore, means that there's an element of the dividend, 49% of it, which leaves the group by a payment to our joint venture partner. So the reason for including that chart to the bottom right is to pro forma out that component of cash, which when distributed by way of dividend, leads the group. So the usable cash in ECO's hands is GBP 14.1 million static compared to this time last year.

Thank you, Hannah. Moving along to look at R&D now. So looking at our R&D growth engine and the important point of this is that this is where we can deliver new products and new growth. This slide shows the first wave of our innovation. These 3 products are in late-stage development, ECOVAXXIN MS and ECOVAXXIN MG, 2 poultry vaccines, and we have achieved the positive opinion, as mentioned. The peak revenues there are just for those 3 markets or regions. The total peak revenue for ECOVAXXIN MS, if you include all of them, not just those first 3 on this time line is approximately GBP 20 million. ECOVAXXIN MG is approximately GBP 9 million, a little bit north of that and a bit north of GBP 5 million for long-acting Florfenicol. And we're laying out here the expected regulatory filings, final submission and approval dates. So what you see here is that we will be executing a launch in Europe in the second half of 2026 following approval in the first half of 2026. And then sequential approvals in other markets, U.S. expected about a year from now, Latin America, at least the first country in Latin America subsequently to that. Once you've got approval -- it's important to remember that once you have approval in one of the main geographies such as EU or the U.S., it allows you access into many other markets. So because the regulatory barriers are of the highest in Europe and the U.S., other countries will take those opinions and not require too much work to gain approval. So they'll use the EU and the U.S. as reference market. So we will see a cadence of additional submissions and regular approvals coming through as we elaborate these products out, not just in the first markets picked out here, but also subsequently globally. Moving on to our second wave of innovation on the next slide. These are the expected time lines of our second wave of innovation, ECOVAXXIN, PCV2/Mhyo is a bivalent swine vaccine addressing one of the key diseases that is global in swine, substantial disease. Necrotic enteritis is a poultry -- major poultry disease causing huge damage, maybe of the $3 billion or so damage to the industry. So a very large market potential to go at. And we estimate these peak revenues based on our risk-adjusted assessment of the market and the time lines build in here some of the high innovation and longer periods of time required to gain approval for these high innovation and high-value innovations. On the next slide, please. Here's a summary of our first 2 vaccines. So we have an existing portfolio that addresses Mycoplasma in both swine and poultry. These 2 vaccines are poultry vaccines. This allows us to access the preventative segment. That's very important. The positive opinion has come. And so that is evidence that this portfolio is being derisked. Other regulatory approvals will come through. And the way that we will commercialize this is that we will harness our existing relationships and our existing knowledge of this market, our existing and new technical support into this market. And we'll use existing distribution channels where they are appropriate, but we will also extend some of those with new partners as we're entering the poultry vaccine space, we are also looking for partners who are strong in that space as well, distribution partners. So we will get a nice portfolio here of 2 vaccines augmenting and complementing our existing core business. So this is additive, not replacing business, no cannibalization expected here. Next slide, please, and the next. So just to think about -- one way of thinking about ECO in terms of an investment case is that we have an organic existing core business, a portfolio of products with a flagship product of Aivlosin, which continues to grow and continues to improve margins as we've shown this half year. We have a global presence, and that allows us to execute our revenues through multiple different countries. And each country has a need to control disease. And we've got an excellent exquisite portfolio with clear advantages over the competition. And this is why we're able to take share and gain penetration and grow our core business. And then we have emerging growth coming from new products coming out of our own pipeline. We've mentioned the positive opinion, the approval in Europe following very shortly after that. We've always said that revenue comes approximately 2 quarters after first approval. Why is that? Well, that's because we need to spin up production, prepare the market, train our partners and establish the ground for our launch. And so ECOVAXXIN progresses very, very well. That's our range of vaccines, and that underpins our entry into this growing preventative segment. So really great opportunities here from this first wave of innovation and allowing additive growth into our portfolio. Next slide, please. Next and last slide, in fact, actually. So in summary, positive first half results, and this is -- the stage is set for our next stage of growth. Our underlying business performed very well with this improved revenue and margin, very happy to report that. Business does continue to develop, and we're showing productivity out of R&D in order to develop a more diversified portfolio and allow us to bring greater value both to our stakeholders in the investor community and our stakeholders in the broader market. One last point I should also mention is that our balance sheet got stronger in cash terms and yet we were also funding the employee business trust to execute a share buyback. That started in this period. We have funded the EBT to the tune of about GBP 0.5 million so far, and they are executing the share buyback in small tranches on a regular basis. Not all of that has been deployed, and we have through approval to deploy GBP 1 million or GBP 1.7 million in shares. And they will be held by the EBT in -- for any needed future share option that may vest. So there will be no dilution. So balance sheet remains strong despite and also including the EBT share buyback. And with that, I will pass it back to you, Hannah, and happy to answer any questions.

[indiscernible] I have a number. Were you disappointed to lose your Head of Global R&D?

Yes, we were, but we're very happy to have a very strong interim lead in place. Ian is -- Ian Thompson is well known to the business. He's worked for us before. He knows all the people and all the projects. So very happy to have him as an interim head, and we continue to look at the recruitment market for a replacement.

Super. What impact of tariffs in the U.S.A. had to date? And do you expect the impact to change in the future?

Crystal balling tariffs is a little bit difficult, but I don't expect too much change in where we are. What we did is we adjusted the prices of our products in the U.S. so that some increased above tariff, some increased below tariff level in order to maintain our margin. We basically priced our portfolio to keep a flat margin. That's -- so we've been able to compensate for what is now a 10% tariff, and that's where I think it's likely to stay. There are opportunities for that to change, of course, but we've been able to mitigate the tariff by having almost exactly the same margins we had pre tariffs by doing this pricing activity.

Thank you. Has generic competition pressure continued?

It's been there. It's been in our market for many long years. We're used to competing against competition in Latin America, everywhere. There is competition. There's generic competition in Latin America in Southeast Asia, China, many, many places. Has it increased? I'm not sure that it's increased or actually decreased. I think it's a natural piece of market dynamics that we have competition, and we fight every day to show the value of our own portfolio.

Guidance. What are you giving for the relative proportion of pig and poultry sales in the next couple of years? And is there much difference in profitability between the 2 markets?

Great question. Not that much difference specifically in the market between poultry and swine, but there is a difference between expected margins in our vaccine portfolio compared to our existing portfolio. So we expect accretive additional margins in our -- from our vaccines. First out of the door, we're expecting something around about 55%, maybe a little bit north of that percent but that will grow as the volumes grow through the production plant to north of 70%. So that's substantially accretive. We haven't given specific guidance on the ratio between swine and poultry. But what we can say is that currently, we're strongly weighted towards swine, let's say, 75%, 80% depending on which market you're in, but approximately that. As we bring our first new products in the poultry segment, our percentage of revenue going into poultry will naturally expand, and it will expand at a greater margin as well.

A quote from yourselves, addressing antimicrobial resistance and environmental impacts are key areas for future development. And the investor inquires, are you referring to the development to be undertaken by you or by others?

Well, we are active in creating preventative measures, creating vaccines, which helps mitigate the impact. We also take the stewardship of Aivlosin very seriously. So we recommend sensible use and correct use. So we are doing that activity -- some of that activity ourselves, but it's not just for us to act in this area, there are many others acting in this area to minimize the One Health impacts. So we're working on both sides of the treatment and prevention equation, stewarding Aivlosin as best as we can because if you're going to use an anti-infective, you want to use one that is effective quickly and for a short period of time. That's where Aivlosin fits in. So targeted treatment, water soluble can be very useful there, but also we're entering into the preventative segment to also manage the One Health impacts of the holistic disease control.

Can you tell us what has driven volume in North America?

Several things. One is good execution that we probably have got the best team of partners in the U.S. that we've had. Also, we've seen a lot of interest in using our products to eliminate the impact of disease. So we're seeing mycoplasma elimination being picked up by many more producers. So that's the second component. And the third component is we're continuing to take share from the competition referenced to your earlier comment. We continue to take share from other older products and producers are seeing the benefit -- producers are seeing the benefit of using Aivlosin.

Chris, just so you don't feel left out. The 500,000 given to the EBT, is that being expensed under admin expenses?

No, it's -- the accounting for it is through reserves. So it's a gift and it goes through reserves, but it's consolidated into the balance sheet. So trust assets all become part of the consolidated balance sheet and the actual expense side is through reserves.

And what was the nature of the balance sheet provisions required?

So the general provisions. So if we look at the modern approach to provisioning for, in particular, receivables, you have to go through a statistical evaluation of the expected loss or expected credit loss as it's termed. And that involves a look back and a look forward. The look back is purely statistical what has been the rate of loss and you then overlay economics and you do a calculation based on the age of the book -- of the receivables book, that gives you an answer. And your default position you provide for that. Now so that's -- you can imagine a purely arithmetic, deterministic approach. And we've also said, well, we'll take that fully on board. Now the forward-looking piece is, yes, but how much do I actually expect to lose and what mitigations we got in place, working on those. And as we go forward to year-end, that will be reevaluated and potentially moderated.

Thank you. Which geographies are you taking notable market share in and why?

Well, the U.S. is one that we've already mentioned. It's broad spread. Actually, there are others. We've done nicely in parts of Europe as well, taking share, also in Brazil and in Asia as well. So it's quite broad-based. But why? I would repeat the why is because it's through good execution. It's through showing the differentiation and the value of Aivlosin. It's being close to the customer. It's understanding the technical needs of the customer. It's understanding how our products can help the producer control this disease and be more profitable themselves. So customer proximity, delivering value and showing value versus the competition.

And where are you with potential out or in-licensing and/or M&A?

So we are actively looking for opportunities that are within our strategic wheelhouse within the areas that we know well, so preventative disease, swine, poultry, livestock are our areas. We've looked at quite a number of opportunities this -- for in-licensing this period. Some are still active. In terms of out-licensing, we've had a good number of discussions. For our short-term portfolio, we expect to take that commercially most places ourselves. For our second wave for our medium-stage products, there is opportunities there for gaining interest. We have a couple of entities that have come to us and are very interested in that monoclonal portfolio, particularly in the PRRSV, but also in other parts of the portfolio. So those are ongoing discussions. We actually think that it's likely that if we add a little bit more of information, a little bit more to the science there, develop that package of knowledge around those products, we will gradually increase -- we can increase the value of that to our potential partners. But there is active interest. So we continue to look at those and opportunistically for licensing in and developing in the areas where we are strong, we're very, very keen to do that. And as you've seen, we have some cash and flexibility to bring some things in there.

Are farmers pushing for preventative vaccines? Or will you need a marketing campaign to change purchasing behavior?

Well, we will definitely need and will support our products via promotion, via marketing. But the answer to your first, are producers wanting to prevent disease? Absolutely. Why is the preventative segment growing the fastest because there is a need to prevent disease. So there is a demand there. There is a natural demand there. And of course, we need to market our products as best as we can. So the answer is yes to both of those sort of questions.

A quick follow-up for you, Chris. When the EBT distributes shares to employees, does that appear in the income statement share charge at all? Or is that purely for options?

No, it doesn't appear in P&L at all because the charge to the P&L occurs upon issuance of the options, whether it's options or LTIPs. So you have a share-based payments charge, you will see that in the P&L of the company. That is the expected cost, equivalent cost, equivalent income statement cost of issuing shares or share options or share equivalents to employees as essentially a compensation element. So when the vesting happens, that is just settling that charge, which you previously made through the income statement. So the settlement occurs through reserves. The previous charge to P&L takes care of the remuneration equivalents.

And finally, because I think this is it, what keeps you awake at night?

Dogs, owls...

They did put in brackets business-related?

On a business front, what's important and keeps our attention is making sure that we can continue to show value to our customers that we can differentiate ourselves in the market. Sometimes geopolitics, but not that much because one can't do too much about that and also delivering out of the R&D pipeline and making sure that we're efficient out of that and our investments are in the right place. Those are the things that keep the focus.

And for me, really, it's around share price, frustrations around the share price, what ways can we do to improve the share price, how better can we describe the hidden value within ECO to the market, and that's really the challenge.

And the opportunity?

Both indeed.

Well, I thank you both for joining us today and to our audience, and there'll be some feedback questions coming, please do engage with them. But we look forward to hearing from you both in another 6 months.

Super. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody.

Bye-bye.