Edenred SE (EDEN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Edenred Q3 2025 Revenue Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to the speaker, Virginie Duperat-Vergne, CFO. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Thank you for being with us for the Q3 2025 revenue conference call of Edenred. I'm Virginie Duperat, Edenred's CFO, and I'm today with Cedric Appert, Investor Relations Director. We're here for the next 60 minutes with a presentation of around 15 minutes, followed by a Q&A session. I suggest we start with Page 2 of the presentation. We do have four key messages we want to convey to you today. Firstly, we achieved a stronger top line growth in Q3 2025 versus H1 2025. As for business lines, we delivered a sequential acceleration in all of them in Q3 compared to H1. Looking to it by geography, we see an acceleration in Europe and a sustained double-digit growth both in Latin America and in the rest of the world. Secondly, we have delivered EUR 59 million of other revenue this quarter, which means we are on track to deliver around EUR 220 million of other revenue in full year 2025 versus an initial floor of EUR 210 million. Thirdly, Edenred continues to seize growth opportunities in all its business lines. Face value increases will notably help to fuel future benefit and engagement growth, and we continue to strengthen both our businesses and our global platform, notably thanks to key partnerships. Last key message, thanks to the elements I just mentioned, we confirm all our targets for full year 2025. First, a minimum of 10% like-for-like EBITDA growth for 2025. And this 10% like-for-like EBITDA growth is an equivalent to approximately 15% like-for-like EBITDA growth, excluding the impact of the new situation on merchant fees in Italy. Then above 70% free cash flow to EBITDA conversion rate. Starting now on Page 4 with Benefits & Engagement. One of our growth drivers on top of further penetration, upselling and cross-selling is face value increases. Since the beginning of 2025, eight countries where we operate already increased their maximum face value. And we continue to see momentum on it as more countries are looking at it, notably as part of state budget discussions. Indeed, in Belgium, a plus 25% face value increase has already been voted and will be implemented as of Jan 1, 2026, combined to the doubling of the corporate tax exempt amount and a faster and easier possibility to further increase this maximum face value for another EUR 2 (sic) [ EUR 12 ] in the future through a simplified process that will not require any additional vote. We also see active discussions in the countries such as Italy, Romania, Japan and others. What does it mean to Edenred? An additional tailwind to further grow our revenues in those countries. Based on our historical observation, notably thanks to our commercial efforts, it generally takes up to 2 years for our clients to gradually reach the 85% average usage of the new maximum face value. So all those countries are set to fuel the growth for 2026 and 2027. Moving now to Mobility on Page 5. We signed in Q3 in Italy, a partnership with Esso, allowing Edenred to issue and manage the Esso fuel card from 2026 onwards. Coming after the acquisition of IP energy card portfolio in 2024, which moved us from player #6 to player #2 in Italy. This partnership confirms Edenred's willingness to invest in the Italian mobility market and play at scale. We expect our market share in Italy to further progress and reach 25% with the addition of the Esso card. As for our Beyond Fuel portfolio of solutions, we are pleased to announce we have signed an instrumental partnership with another best-in-class oil and gas major. Edenred Finance will serve as their main partner, opening opportunities for their CRT clients to access Edenred Finance VAT and excise duty refund solutions across close to 30 European countries. This partnership represents an important growth lever for Edenred Finance and highlights the relevance of our solutions and our capacity to partner with best-in-class players. Let's focus now on Page 6 on our global specific purpose payment platform, namely Edenred PayTech. This unique asset processes a volume around EUR 100 billion per year and settles more than 1.6 billion transactions every year. As you may have seen, we are announcing today a strategic partnership with Visa, worldwide leader in digital payments. Under this partnership, we will leverage Edenred's platform through the certification of our in-house issuing and processing infrastructure with Visa Europe, issuing Visa cards across our three business lines. The certification allows Edenred to further increase its versatility and the ability to work with all the key networks, reinforcing Edenred's technology leadership. Moving to Page 8 and to the quarterly performance. We delivered EUR 667 million of operating revenue, a stronger performance in Q3 than in Q1 and Q2, with an 8.2% like-for-like operating revenue growth. Over the first 9 months of 2025, this brings us to a plus 7.5% like-for-like growth, just over EUR 2 billion of operating revenue. On Page 9, you can look at the breakdown of the growth per business line. First of all, Benefits & Engagement, which represents 64% of our operating revenue this quarter, grew by 8.7% in Q3 2025 on the back of an acceleration in various geographies, notably in Europe, and I'll come back on it later in this presentation. Mobility, which represents 27% of our operating revenue in Q3 2025, grew by 13.5% like-for-like versus Q3 2024 and continues to deliver sustained growth. Finally, Complementary Solutions operating revenue, which represents 9% of our operating revenue in Q3 2025, decreased minus 6.6% compared to Q3 last year. This decrease was less pronounced compared to the first half of 2025. This is on the back of the ongoing Banking as a Service B2C exit that we already flagged and will continue to weigh in Q4 2025. Turning now to Page 10, where we can see the breakdown of the growth of our operating revenue per geography. In Latin America first, which represents 31% of our operating revenue, we go on delivering solid double-digit growth with plus 12.1% like-for-like growth in Q3 2025. In Europe, which represents 59% of our business, we saw an acceleration of growth at plus 4.7% this quarter. And finally, Rest of the World with 10% of our operating revenue grew strong double-digit again with plus 16.3% like-for-like versus Q3 2024. Digging into European performance on Page 11. We delivered EUR 392 million of operating revenue in the third quarter of 2025. This is 59% of total operating revenue. It represents a growth of plus 4.7% like-for-like this quarter versus 1.7% like-for-like in H1 2025. These additional 3 points reflect an improved performance that is visible both in France and rest of Europe. In Europe, outside of France, Germany delivered a solid performance in Benefits & Engagement. Italy also delivered a good performance despite the implementation of the new regulation that was only for 1 month in 3Q 2025 and was largely offset by strong business during the quarter. Mobility grew double-digit in rest of Europe on the back of Edenred UTA in Germany, our fuel card business in Italy and the much improved performance of Edenred Finance as expected. As for Complementary Solutions, performance is impacted by the wind down of the Banking as a Service B2C solutions that remains included in our like-for-like computation. In France, we saw good commercial developments on our Meal & Food solutions despite the economic environment that remains challenging with some specific sectors reducing headcount. The intrinsic cyclicality of the Work Council platform licensing activity keeps impacting performance negatively as Work Council major 3-year renewals occurred in '23 and '24. Finally, Mobility delivered strong high double-digit like-for-like growth in the quarter with higher demand for EV solutions. Turning around the globe to Latin America on Page 12, which represents 31% of our operating revenue in 3Q 2025. We delivered EUR 208 million of operating revenue in the quarter. This represents an operating revenue growth of 12.1% like-for-like this quarter, reflecting the strong dynamism of the geographies. This organic growth was offset by a slightly lower negative translation effect than in previous quarter, mostly on the back of a slight appreciation of BRL versus euro in the last 3 months. In Brazil, operating revenue grew 15.2% like-for-like this quarter. We continue to see strong momentum in Benefits & Engagement, both in Meal & Food and in our Beyond Fuel solutions. In parallel, Mobility also grew double digits in the quarter, thanks to the strong activity of our fuel card solutions, boosted by our fast-growing Beyond Fuel solutions in maintenance, toll and freight payment. In Hispanic Latin America, operating revenue grew 10.5% like-for-like in 9 months 2025, reflecting sustained performance both in Benefits & Engagement and in Mobility. However, after a strong Q1, the like-for-like performance in Q2 and in Q3 was negatively impacted by the reduction of our share in the Public Social Program in Chile. Moving to Page 13. We delivered EUR 59 million of other revenue in the quarter, bringing it to EUR 171 million for the first 9 months of the year. This leads us to increase our EUR 210 million floor for the full year 2025 to a new estimate of around EUR 220 million, in line with current consensus estimate. Wrapping up on that part of the presentation, let's review total revenue growth pattern. We delivered 3Q 2025 operating revenue of EUR 667 million, growing 8.2% like-for-like compared to 3Q 2024. The foreign exchange impact on our 3Q operating revenue was a negative 3%, offsetting a positive scope effect of 2.6%, reflecting the contributions of the recently acquired activities, mainly the commuting employee benefit in Brazil and the IP selected card activity in Italy. All in all, this resulted in an [indiscernible] growth of 7.8% for our operating revenue in the quarter. Other revenues were EUR 59 million for this quarter, declining slightly minus 1.7% like-for-like year-on-year. The foreign exchange effect was a negative minus 4.8%, reflecting mainly the evolution of the Latin America currency impacting us less than in the previous quarter. Finally, our total revenue for the third quarter of 2025 was EUR 726 million, growing 7.3% like-for-like compared to 3Q last year, which was at EUR 682 million. This includes a positive scope effect of 2.3%, which was more than offset by a negative foreign exchange impact of 3.2%. Let's end this presentation with Page 16, reaffirming our guidance for full year 2025. We are pleased to confirm our full year financial objectives for 2025, which are as follows. EBITDA growth of minimum 10% like-for-like, which is an equivalent to a minimum of EUR 1.340 billion based on foreign exchange rates as of June 30 and a free cash flow to EBITDA conversion rate of at least 70%. Finally, before opening for Q&A, I would like to remind you that Edenred will unveil its new strategic plan during the Capital Markets Day event on November 4, 2025, that will be hosted both physically in Paris and virtually. And with this, I thank you for your attention, and I will hand you back to the operator for the opening of the Q&A session. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Andre Juillard from Deutsche Bank Equity Research.

Congratulations for the strong quarter. First question is about the discussion in France about the budget. Could you give us some more color about what is going on and what we could expect from the potential reform that has been talked about? Second question about the first trend you are seeing for the Q4 and the end of the year, could be appreciated to have some more color about what you are seeing and if you have already received the first request for the end of the year.

Thanks a lot. For France first, we hear like all the discussions that are happening around. Maybe worth to note that in the budget discussions that are currently happening, there is a proposal of adding a new additional element, which is a tax of probably around 8% that would weigh on advantages like the French Ticket Restaurant. What we now know since yesterday is all the parliamentary groups, so all of them, not the vast majority, all of them have all posted an amendment against this article in the budget that will obviously going to be discussed in the next coming days and weeks, and we won't know the final budget before end of the year. But total number of groups posting an amendment is probably a big sign on what French population and political framework think about this proposal. On our side, we wait like everyone what's going to be said on it. What we can say is that the impact remains an important impact on the budget of French people, obviously. But Ticket Restaurant and advantages would remain something attractive. And we know that we've seen some elements like this happening in other countries where we've seen penetration still progressing quite strongly even with the tax raise and advantages to employees. So that's maybe the way we can comment on that element. And then in terms of Q4, as you know, Q4 will see the first stronger impact of the change in the regulation in Italy as we said. And for the rest, we expect the current traction on the business to go on occurring as it has been occurring in Q3. So tailwinds -- business tailwinds are relatively a positive for us for the beginning of the year and a negative impact coming from the change in regulation that will obviously reduce the volume of revenue coming from Italy.

The next question comes from Ed Young from Morgan Stanley.

First question, you posted acceleration in Europe despite the 1-month impact of regulation in Italy. Can you help give us a bit more color on what's driven that better performance? Or have you also seen better-than-expected mitigation against that regulatory impact versus your prior expectation? And then the second question is on other income. You've raised the guidance to EUR 220 million from a minimum floor of EUR 210 million. Could you just clarify if that's the new minimum floor or that's new point guidance because it implies a quite a decent sequential drop in Q4 compared to the growth you saw sequentially in Q3. So I just wanted to understand the drivers into Q4? And is that a floor? Or is that around EUR 220 million expectation?

Sorry, I think that you've been breaking up during the first part of the question. So I understand it's about Europe acceleration versus the Italian impact in Q3, but I'm not sure there was not something else into it.

It's really -- it's what's driven the acceleration and/or have you had better-than-expected mitigation against the regulatory impact?

So definitely maybe one or two elements to highlight on that. And number one, as you may remember what we said on that part is that we see an impact being quite well balanced between the 2 years, 2025 and 2026, with a EUR 60 million for the H2 '25 and EUR 60 million equivalent for the first part of the year. When we dig into it a bit more precisely and we look quarter by quarter, it's not something that you can take 60 and divide by 4 quite mechanically. And the reason for that is that this is not really mechanical impact month by month is number one question of negotiation as we flagged earlier. The way we've been renegotiating with our clients makes the fact that some increase in -- or reduction in discounts from our clients will impact more in '26 than in '25. So we have a higher impact in '25. And when you look into what's happening into redemption of the volumes being issued. In September, the vast majority of the volumes that are being redeemed comes from volumes that have been issued before the change of regulation. And as a consequence, they will come into our P&L with the former rates. And progressively month after month in Q4, you will see a greater impact of the new regulation with redeem volume progressively getting into the new regulation. So that's number one effect. It also happens in parallel, and that's what I signaled earlier in my script that we had quite strong volumes in Q3 in Italy this quarter and that offset a little bit the first negative impact that we have seen coming from the change in regulation. So that's maybe what we can say from that part. And in terms of other income, yes, we have delivered EUR 59 million. So if you sum up in the first 9 months, you are up to EUR 171 million. And what we see for the rest of the year is that assuming that the stabilization we see in foreign exchange rate and the stabilization also of the decrease of interest rate, then we foresee we should be around EUR 220 million for the full year, which is quite in line with the consensus estimate.

The next question comes from Josh Levin from Autonomous Research.

You talked about eight countries which have already raised face value ceilings and a few that are in advanced discussions. Could you roughly quantify the total addressable revenue uplift if all those changes are adopted? And I guess, how much of that lands in 2026 versus 2027? And then the second question, what are your latest thoughts or what are you hearing about potential reform in Brazil?

Thank you, Josh. Taking your first question, we have seen a face value increase in 2025 in eight countries. So part of it is already fueling a little bit our organic growth. Belgium will start ceiling only in '26 as we said and some other might come as there are current ongoing budget discussion in the state, and that would be voted to fuel '26 and '27. Generally, what we see is that it takes 18 to 24 months to progressively take the impact of -- or grab the impact of the potential additional opportunity that represents the face value increase and that comes with client renegotiation that we have to do on the existing portfolio. And generally, when it is about new sales, given an opportunity to try to get immediately to a higher amount in terms of face value and that helps also filling the portfolio. So I'm not going to quantify precisely, but you could really get a kind of positive increase of all that. And then in terms of total impact on that part, I think Belgium is quite a sizable country in our portfolio. We talk -- also mentioned Italy and Romania in the countries to come that are also large countries. So then you can extrapolate a little bit on the volume of revenue we are doing in voucher to see that it's increasing the addressable markets.

The next question comes from Julien Richer from Kepler.

Two questions for me, please. The first one, you mentioned some new partnership. Could you please quantify the potential impact to operating revenue like-for-like growth in 2026 from those partnerships and also the impact at cruising speed? And second question, you also mentioned some other countries where the tax on employee benefit exists or has been added in the past. Could you please give us examples of those countries?

Julien, so in terms of new partnerships, as you can imagine, I'm not going to disclose revenue per client, that would be an issue for us. But in Italy, obviously, getting the capability of issuing the Esso card with us is an opportunity to increase significantly our market share and progress for, let's say, a nice handful of points in terms of market share in that country. And Visa partnership is very interesting in terms of agility that it gives to us and versatility. We are already having a long-lasting partnership with Mastercard, but with also quite a number of payment interface everywhere in the world. Having this additional capability and this partnership with Visa is really putting us in a position to be almost qualified as agnostic in terms of the types of system that we can monitor and interfaces that we can monitor. And in that respect, that's very, very strong in order of allowing us to have the development that we want to be having, notwithstanding the usage of the habits of any country where we develop ourselves. In terms of tax on employee schemes, yes, I was referring to Mexico, for example, three years ago in Mexico in terms of meal voucher, from nothing to quite a size volume of tax on meal voucher. And if we look back now since it happens, the penetration of -- in the market has progressed by more than 11%. So meaning that if these things happen, it doesn't change the success of the products and of the solutions in the countries where it is being developed. And you have also in Belgium, for example, some of the consumption vouchers are already having tax natively since they've been issued. And despite that, it's quite a successful product that has been developing quite strongly over the past year. So that's maybe two examples. That's what it was. And then maybe...

The next question comes from Hannes Leitner from Jefferies.

I got two questions as well. The first one is on the Beyond. Can you give us there the metrics on the performance as a whole and then by the two segments? And then the second one is more in regards to your CFO role. Can you talk a little bit about your views on the current state of the debt that has been increasing over the last couple of years due to M&A and also due to higher refinancing? Maybe you can give the comment around your personal strategy, how that should be going forward, and what is the total debt capacity you feel comfortable with.

Hannes, and just to be clear, I'll take your question, but I also come back on Josh's question on Brazil because I was cut to the next question before I had time to answer Josh. So that's with it. So maybe starting first with the Josh's question on Brazil regulation. On regulation, discussions are still ongoing as we speak. What we have told you in July remains valid. Maybe discussions can be seen as being long, but it's important to remember that in Brazil, we have more than 110 different issuers. So that's also one element that needs to be taken into account because as discussion progresses and government also see different situations between different type of issuers and then this covers around how it works, and that's a lengthy process that we are still in. So no real news to add to what we said. On your question, Hannes, sorry, coming back to you. On Beyond performance, nothing specific, and I'll come back to what we said in H1 because we don't disclose a P&L in Q3. As you know, it's only a revenue release. And then in H1, as we said, Beyond performance has been growing faster than our core performance that's still valid for Q3 in terms of revenue. And in terms of margin of our Beyond activities, it's not significantly different when you look at the H1 performance to what it is in the four businesses. As far as the debt is concerned, yes, we have a gross debt of around EUR 4 billion on the face of the balance sheet. But as you may have seen, we have also quite a strong volume of cash in the face of our balance sheet. And at the end of the day, when we look to our debt profile, we have a strong, fast delivering, faster deleveraging solid profile. And that's maybe what as a CFO, I would want to note and to highlight the way this business is being built is that you have the ability to deleverage quite fast. If you look back in the past, you will see that just after COVID, when we did a lot of acquisitions, the ability to deleverage has been quite fast. We have a strong cash generation, a strong level of EBITDA margin, obviously, and then a cash conversion, which is quite high also in terms of percentage. So that helps this deleveraging profile and will probably be around 1.2 or something like this in terms of net debt and leverage at the end of the year to be transparent to you. I also have some investors a little bit worried that I'm not keeping a lazy balance sheet at some point. And that's also an element that I need to take into account as a CFO to have a productive balance sheet, which is not also sufficiently leveled. Remember also that Standard & Poor's is rating us A- since several years. And this credit rating has been reiterated earlier in April 2025. And that's a part, I would say, of the sound balance sheet that we are having. So as a CFO, I will take great care of the strong financial discipline that has been created by my predecessor, and I will make sure that we don't have a lazy balance sheet, and we invest. And we'll talk more about that during the Capital Market Day.

The next question comes from Justin Forsythe from UBS.

Just a couple of questions, if I might. I want to go back to that Italy point. There was a prior question, and I think you clarified that the month-on-month impact of Italy is going to be increasing as you issue more vouchers under the new regulation. But maybe you could just clarify what the impact was in 3Q. So it seems like it might have put your employee benefits growth on a like-for-like basis ex Italy up into low double digits. So just wondering if you could confirm that. And then I wanted to go back a little bit to the growth algo for my second question. So there's probably -- it seems like three components that you might call out. So you have your maybe more organic same-store sales development which encapsulates the employment levels, say, in France, as you called out before, then you have face value increases and then the further penetration of small businesses. So maybe you could weight those underlying impacts, meaning was face value the biggest driver of that acceleration on an exit-only basis? Or should we wait SME ahead? Or just walk through the relative weighting of all those three impacts.

Thanks, Justin. Coming back to Italy first. As I said earlier, so if you take EUR 60 million and you totally divide it by 4, you've got EUR 15 million obviously. And you have to assume that this is really lower than the EUR 15 million as a direct impact in Q3. And again, there has been quite a strong Q3 in terms of business volume this quarter and that compensates strongly, I would say, the impact that we've seen. So then Italy is part of the rest of Europe growth that we have seen sequentially based on that. And then on the second element, which is about trying to get a little bit more in the various drivers of how we see the various elements of growth. Obviously, that is a little bit different on a country-by-country or region-by-region element. Let's say that one strong element maybe that is important is that we have -- and that's nothing different from the past, but that's really helping us. We have a low level of churn. And because we have a low level of churn of our existing portfolio, then obviously, new sales are really helping the growth quite mechanically. In France, yes, and it's not only in France, but in some other countries, we have some portfolio client by client have volume that we are issuing that is reducing because headcount is reducing a bit and that has an impact. But hence, that's what we see. And then the additional solution, let's think that, for example, transport voucher in Brazil, let's not think that's small business line. At the end of the day, it's quite nice complementary solution that are bringing a decent volume of revenue. And in particular, this activity is quite synergistic to the meal voucher in Brazil, and cross-selling is bringing quite a nice complement to our portfolio.

Real quick. I might get cut off by the AI here, but on the Italy thing, just to be super clear -- I didn't get cut off, which is great. But on the Italy thing, just to be super clear, I understood that it's not an equal EUR 60 million divided by 4, but should we be putting, say, a EUR 2 million, a EUR 3 million, a EUR 4 million impact into our models for 3Q to think about how to model that going onward in the 4Q as an Italy impact?

Justin, I'm not going to play on that game because obviously you have the impact, but you have commercial impact and even for us at some moments, we'll be absolutely able to go on the corner after the medium to see what the impact is, can it be a deductible. There is volume traction. There is momentum with clients. And that's something which is progressive, but not completely stupid from 1 month to the other with the biggest impact, obviously, which is in December. And with that, you should have something quite accurate.

The next question comes from Kate Xiao from Bank of America.

First question on France. I think you highlighted improved growth in Meal & Food. Just wondering what's driving that because compared to especially a quarter ago when you highlighted some weakness in headcount and macro economy, kind of weaker macroeconomic growth. So just wondering what's improving. Is it the general macroeconomic environment? And then just on that Italy point because you mentioned in September, the majority of the volume came from previous issuance. So can we assume the majority of the impact was not basically there for September? And I appreciate you can't go into the details, but just confirm that understanding that most of the hit will be kind of skewed towards later months and that September was relatively more muted.

Thanks a lot. In terms of Meal & Food growth this quarter, as we said, we had several drivers. We see quite a strong traction in Europe compared to what we've seen in the past. Macroeconomic environment is definitely probably a little bit better than it has been before the summer. In addition to that, we have some pockets that are quite stronger, and thanks to allow me to come back on that, especially Germany. In Germany, we have what we call the City Card. So it's not really a Meal voucher activity, it's more Beyond Meal & Food activity. And we have seen strong growth on that one and strong traction over the quarter, and that's definitely fueling the Benefits revenue. So that's one element. Brazil has been also quite strong over the quarter. The winter over there, so the season, everyone is working so that you have a full issuance of volumes. And again, as I signaled earlier, the strong combination of the acquisition of RB last year with Transport voucher, definitely bringing fruits in terms of cross sell and synergies between our portfolio -- respective portfolio of clients, which is also pushing the growth. And then coming back to the impact. As we said earlier, yes, I confirm the vast majority of the impact in 2025 will be in Q4 and in the last part of Q4. And that's natively about coming from the way the redemption of issues with vouchers is coming. It's more or less [indiscernible]. And as expected, by in September, you go on having the redemption of things that have been issued before 31st of August, as -- remembering legislation is put in place as of September 1. So you have the 4 months of the year that are being concerned. And in Q3, a vast majority of what we see coming in terms of volumes of resumption, obviously do come from the past, and the immediate consumption of the voucher is relatively muted. On average, we estimate that there is 7 weeks where we keep the money, meaning we know that the redemption doesn't come immediately after the ticket has been issued.

The next question comes from Pravin Gondhale from Barclays.

Firstly, on the Italy EBITDA headwind guidance of EUR 120 million on an annualized basis. Last year, you had suggested that this includes the Phase 1 actions, which is contract renegotiations. You are pretty much done with that, I believe.

Pravin, sorry, can you speak a bit louder because we cannot hear you well?

Sorry about that. I hope it is clear now. So my first question is on the Italy regulatory EBITDA headwind guidance of EUR 120 million on an annualized basis. Last year, at this point, you had suggested that, that EUR 120 million assumes Phase 1 actions, which is mainly contract renegotiations. Now you are pretty much done with that, and we are potentially into Phase 2, where you might be looking at cost mitigation actions there. Do you see any potential to bring down this EUR 120 million EBITDA headwind by additional say, Phase 2 mitigation actions? And then secondly, on mobility, you are targeting 25% share in Italy. What is the incremental market share opportunity the Esso partnership offers? And what are the drivers of you getting to that 25% target from 5% target -- 5% market share last year?

Okay. Thank you, Pravin, and sorry for that. We heard it far better on the second time. In terms of Italy EBITDA, I reconfirm the impact of EUR 120 million on an annual basis. What we've seen is that the contract renegotiation exercise has been well managed. The EUR 120 million assume we would be quite successful in doing that and been successful, and that's why this impact is confirmed. Sequentially, we've explained how it comes into play, and that large part of it will enter into effect more in 2026. And that's why we have this unbalanced effect more or less between '25 and '26. And we have already put additional elements in terms of working again in terms of negotiating clients, putting sales back on track and so on. Obviously, this renegotiation has been occupying quite a lot our sales force all over the year, but they are now back on track to develop on additional elements. Maybe one element to signal is that we've been very successful in terms of welfare this year. We have some welfare solutions benefits in Italy that we are selling, and that's also part of the traction and the good growth that Italy has been posting especially this quarter. And that's helping compensating and we go on focusing a lot on all these elements. And we go on working obviously in terms of, yes, developing more SMEs, but also cross-sell and upsell of all our solutions to further work on the Italian market, which is a good market. And as I signaled earlier, in the budget -- current budget discussions in Italy, there is a potential for the increase in face value of around 25% if it goes from EUR 8 to EUR 10. And if that happens, obviously, that increase the addressable market. So Mobility...

The next question comes from Rob from Edenred.

Maybe I'll come back to the Mobility Esso card and our friends from Artificial Intelligence will come back later with the next comment. The Esso Mobility card is obviously quite a strong opportunity. It's worth to mention that this is a progressive win. So the acquisition of the IP card has been put us in a position to move from player #6 to player #2. And with that, we have the opportunity to secure this new additional partnership with Esso card. And then our market share will have the opportunity to further increase it by progressively taking into account all the clients that we can, and further issuing this new Esso Plus Edenred card. But definitely, not saying that we overcome the player #1 in Italy, as you can imagine, but that puts us in a very strong position of strong #2 in Italy, and there's a lot of possibility and we'll go on investing in this market.

The next question comes from Estelle Weingrod from JPM.

Two questions from me as well. Coming back to France specifically. So Q3 was, I think, a nice surprise despite headcounts reducing and so on. Can you provide more color on the drivers on this pickup in France? And is it right to model a further sequential pickup in Q4 given relatively easier comps? And the second question on CSI, formerly CSI. You mentioned in the release initial positive results, which is encouraging. I guess Q3 sequentially improving versus Q1 and Q2. How should we look at it looking forward?

Thanks a lot, Estelle. In France, definitely, we had a good Q3. So maybe starting with a very, very strong quarter in Mobility with high, strong double-digit growth on that quarter. It's a small part of the activity, but yes, it's progressing and then it's pushing France. On the rest, on the Meal & Food activity, we've seen a positive growth quarter-on-quarter in terms of the core Meal & Food activity. And we have still a decremental impact as we signal coming from our Work Council software platform, but it's probably a little bit lower than it's been in the previous quarter. And we are now in October. So for us for the moment we enter into the dip season, and we see what the dip season will bring to us. But hopefully, that will be an instrumental element of our Q4 revenue offer that we are pushing on the market that our teams are presenting at the moment. On CSI, so CSI as explained by Bertrand earlier in the year, we have changed the management, and we have team on track. Definitely, this is a turnaround process for quite long. But what we've seen in Q3 is that we hope we are starting to improve in term of, let's say, negative impact. The team has also undertaken a very strong restructuring over the year and then is much more fit for purpose with a cleaner and leaner structure with the right elements in the right place. And that should help us and help turnaround and progressively recover and go faster. So maybe what we can say with the CSI that we call Edenred Pay in North America as part of the book, and we'll see in the next quarter how they progress.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for your nice questions and for being with us today. As a conclusion, I would like to remind that Edenred delivered a stronger top line growth in Q3 2025. Thanks to an operating revenue like-for-like growth of 8.2%. Seizing new growth opportunities in all business lines, we saw really an acceleration in all business lines versus H1, an acceleration of the growth in Europe and the sustained double-digit growth, both in Latin America and in Rest of the World. That allows us to confirm our full year 2025 objectives of the like-for-like EBITDA growth of at least 10% and the free cash flow to EBITDA cash conversion rate above 70%. I wish you all a very great day. And I really hope I see you all on November 4 in person for our Capital Market Day. Thank you.