Elecnor, S.A. (ELNRF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Well, good morning everybody. I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Alexander Arrola, and I am the Financial Director, the CFO here at Elecnor. It is a true honor to welcome you to this event. This is the first Capital Markets Day in over 67 years of history of the Elecnor Group. Thank you. I'd like to thank all those of you who are here today, face-to-face as well as those who are following us via streaming. For those of us who are part of the -- of Elecnor, it is an honor, and this is a very important event that we have prepared with a huge deal of effort and dedication. So -- please allow me to give the floor now to our President. Jaime, please. You've got the floor.

Is this working? Hello? No? Well, first of all -- now it does. So otherwise, you'll be able to hear what I'm saying, thanks to my powerful voice. Well, thank you, Alex. And I want to thank those of you here today and as well as those following us through the Internet. And as Alex mentioned quite clearly, this is a very important event for us. As you know, we have made an important effort, and we have been working hard on many years on communication about the -- within the Group Elecnor. Five years ago, back in 2020, we made a spin-off of assets. So we could start communicating different activities of the different parts of the group. And last year, we held 2 general meetings, 2 of them were extraordinary shareholder meetings to carry out the most important operation that the group has done which was the sales of our subsidiary, renewable subsidiary. Everything was approved by the shareholders. And of course, offering all the transparency that a usual practice in our company. So today, the Investor Day is very important for us. And I hope it's also very important for all of you. And now we're going to give the floor to Alberto Garcia de Los Angeles. He's been part of Elecnor for, my belief 18 years. He is the CEO of our group starting in January last year. He is going to detail the strategic plan 2024-2027. Although he already mentioned it back in the General Shareholders' Meeting that took place from May 18. And he will elaborate on it and provide more detail for all the stakeholders and investors. So thank you very much, and I'm going to give the floor now to Alberto García de los Ángeles. There's 1 more thing. I won't be able to stay to the cocktail because I have another appointment, but I hope you enjoy it. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Jaime and Alex, for your introduction. And good morning, everybody. Thank you for being with us today. As I mentioned, both who are here in this room as well as those of us -- those of you following us through the Internet. It's a pleasure to address you as the CEO of Elecnor in our First Capitals Day -- Capital Markets Day. It's a milestone clearly for the group. So my link to Elecnor, it's probably a vocation, but also part of my family. My father was foreman at Elecnor for over 35 years. So I could basically say that -- well, my first pacifier had Elecnor logo on it. And for over 17 years, I have had different positions here in the group. I started in business development. Then I went through international management in the United States where I spent over 11 years, 7 years in California, and for New York -- well, I was in charge of all the operations of the group in the United States. Four years ago, I came back to Spain, where besides -- and in my position, I was in charge, I sort of been in charge of the coordination of one-off the areas -- in the area we call services. That's why we develop functions of telecommunications and maintenance amongst others. And before [indiscernible] I would like to thank our team and none of the things we're going to be showing here today will be possible without the dedication and the work of over 24,000 people who are part of the group. All the results achieved throughout our history have been backed by their daily commitment and their work. And in terms of today -- of today's agenda, we will start sharing with you our vision, our business model and our strategic plan. And then we will have a Q&A session in which Alex Arrola, our Financial Director, will be with me to answer your questions. And last, we will be able to chat during the cocktail that will be available to all those of you who are here today. And you might be wondering why, why today or why now? And well, the answer is that Elecnor is opening a new phase. And having this 67 years of history supporting us, we are facing a leadership change and a transformation plan that will allow us to keep on growing and building for the future. And please allow me to share with you 3 reasons why, in our opinion, the Elecnor Group is a very appealing investment opportunity. First of all, our track record, both in terms of growth and return to our shareholders. And we have doubled our income without any surprises. We closed in -- well, 2024 with net cash flow and have growing dividends always in cash. Between 2014 and 2023, the dividend grew above the figure of 81%. And besides, the Group Elecnor is fully aligned with the mega trends that are impacting everybody in general, but especially our sector. And I'm talking about electrification, urbanization and utilization as well as sustainability. And they are, of course, engines of our business. And we have differential capabilities in these sectors. And then our strategic plan, which is the tool with which we want to reinforce growth and value creation in the next 3 years. And the objective is to double the dividends shared -- with the dividends that we share between 2021 and 2023. But I'd also like to explain what defines us and part of it. A big part of our identity is our safety culture. And this is not just another task. It's clearly part of our core, something that's nonnegotiable of 24,000 workers who carry out activities, and many of them actually carry out activities with risk. And our main priority should be to provide them with a training and the mean so they can all go back home safely. And this commitment can be seen in the fact that over the past 3 years, we made quite an important investment, both in training and resources over EUR 100 million, also in the constant drop of our risk factors and a culture that permeates all the company from the management to everyone who's working on the field. So I really want to thank all these people have made as a reference in terms of prevention. I would like to once again reinforce the commitment of the executive team, the management team to get to our goal, which is 0 severe accidents. And of course, that's been our starting point. And having said that, I'm going to try to explain what Elecnor is today. We are a global infrastructure group of energy and services over 24,000 workers. In 2024, we got to a turnover of EUR 3.8 billion with an EBITDA above EUR 200 million. And today, we are operating in over 50 countries. And about 85% of our sales focus around our 8 main markets that we can see on stream. And over 80% of the activities are based on OECD countries -- in OECD countries which means that our international growth is supported by stabled economies. And this combination of scale, diversification from a geographic perspective and technical skills are a competitive advantage that allow us to win referential projects and have recurring contract -- services contracts. So how do we manage this geographic diversity and the amount of workers involved in the group? Well, we do it through business model that's divided in around 3 axes. And it's been divided, they also generate synergies and reduces risk. So this model that's already been implemented. We started implementing -- with the implementation this year. Well, includes general goals and specific goals. So the first block is services. As we can see makes up around 55% of our revenue. It provides an EBITDA margin of around 6%, quite stable margins and also the short-term generation of cash flow. We are talking about maintenance, telecommunications and facilities. So probably when you -- whenever you see one of our vans in around Madrid, well, that's -- they're probably part of this segment. And for example, when you go to Terminal 4, the airport, well, we carry out a big part of the maintenance of that terminal. Second segment would be projects. So it accounts for around 45% of our revenue. And in here, we have big infrastructures. We talked about transmission and substations, railway, renewable energies and those are more complex contracts, but from a technical perspective, but the potential of margin is bigger. And in this segment, we have proved a track record with us almost no incidence that which is something that doesn't always happen in our sector. And just to share with you an example, I'd like to highlight the construction works of -- in the Amazon River. So it's a line that cross study -- well, the rainforest of the river. And we had to build 2 towers that were over 280 meters, which is the equivalent of the Eiffel Tower. And last, the last segment would be investments. We are developers and investors as well in strategic assets that provide value in the long run. And we are talking about concessions or asset platforms such as transmission lines or renewable energy projects. So those are investments that generate constant revenue. A clear example would be Celeo, one of our subsidiaries and they have over 345 megawatts in renewable energies. And what's truly relevant here are the synergies between each of these blocks. Projects provide opportunities for services. Services get us closer to our customers. And through the investments, we can have a more stable cycle. This multiplies our ability to grow. All of it thanks to our differential skills because at Elecnor, we aren't just a service or an engineering company, we are differentiated by key skills, capacity that we have developed in our 67 years of history, engineering and technical knowhow that allows us to adapt our solutions to the needs of the client, guaranteed ability of executing, which has allowed us to -- which is very important, a strong commercial services and also financial discipline that allows us to offer sustainability and profitability in every project. And thanks to all those skills and abilities, we are able to cater for the needs around all the value chain from the identification and design of an operation all the way down to operations and maintenance. But if something differentiates us even more than these abilities are the people and the values we share because we are not serving the product. We provide services and execute projects. And we do all of it. Thanks to our people, we are clearly -- our biggest competitive advantage. And that's why attracting, taking care and keeping talent is a strategic priority. And that's why I'd like to share a piece of information. I believe it's a very eye opening. Our management team made up by over 250 people have been in the company for over well, the average synergies 20 years, which shows that we have our own style, which is something that we're able to do throughout the management of all the business. And this commitment with people isn't just part of history. It's also one of the keys for the future. And we know it. And a big part of our strategic plan is going to be based on this ongoing training and fostering international mobility and being able to attract more talent. And in my own experience, I can assure you that Elecnor is a company that's built through effort and long-term vision. This respect to our people have allowed Elecnor to be after 60 years, a robust and a reference in our sector. And in a volatile environment like the one in which we're in today, we firmly believe that our values provide us with an important competitive advantage. We don't just want to grow at any cost. We want to grow in a sustainable and coherent way. And of its linked to a very clear purpose which is to provide opportunities for people worldwide. And this gives meaning to everything we do and links what we do every day with a positive impact on the planet. And this is something that, I mean, we'll try to show through a clip that we will play right now, but it's probably better than any words I can share with you. So why do we wake up every morning? To come to work? Is it money? Is it for the kids? [Presentation]

Well, our strength is the combination of diversified model based on around 3 pillars and values and guidance. This formula helps us be resilient and grow in a sustainable way. And I guess you probably agree with me with the fact that we are going through a pivotal moment which trends are changing the world, but more specifically our sector, which always also presents us with a huge opportunities. First is electrification. So this energy transition, decarbonization and digitalization require new and more robust of grades that are able to interconnect renewable energies, and that has been the core of our growth, and we'll keep on being it. Second is urbanization and digitalization, as we know, the cities of the future require more resilient infrastructure. And I'm talking about transportation, water, energy efficiency. And at the same time, digitalization and artificial intelligence require more powerful systems and grids and Elecnor is at the core of that deployment from telecommunications all the way down to electric mobility. And third is sustainability. ESG criteria, European taxonomy or energy efficiency criteria for the -- for Group Elecnor. It's not something that's just fashionable now. It's something that's actually part of our identity and it's been part of our identity for all these years. And this -- all these mega trends that I just mentioned, reinforced and foster our business model and its impact can clearly be seen in our results. As you can see in the -- what's happened in the past 10 years can be seen in this slide. Elecnor's growth constantly, we have doubled. So it's going from EUR 1.8 billion to over EUR 3.8 billion. And we have achieved all of it through recurring business and without big surprises, we generate more trust amongst our clients, employees and shareholders. This sustained growth can be translated to an annual compound growth of around 7%. And net benefit has also grown consistently, thanks to net profit has grown considerably. Thanks to this recurring services. We have been able to have a cash flow and great cash flow. At the end of the year, we had a net financial position that were well below their usual ratios. An example of these has been Enerfin that multiplied by 3, the investment pay back in 1997 and will generate an important dividends for the group, which shows that the group hasn't just grown, but it has actually grown in a profitable and sustainable way with financial strength, which are factors that are clearly valued by the markets. And as I mentioned, not only have we grown, we have shared that value with our shareholders constantly between 2014 and 2023 annual dividend went from EUR 21.8 million to over EUR 40 million, almost EUR 40 million, always in cash without using scrip dividends. And this shows EUR 384 million in the past decade. And this shows that our payment to our shareholders is stable and can be forecasted. And having said that, we are looking at our strategic plan and our objective is to increase the remuneration to our shareholders, thanks to our solid cash flow generation and the strength of our balance. We are able to reward our shareholders without hurting our financial stability. And the conclusion is clear, Elecnor shares with its shareholders the value it generates. And you can rest assured of the fact that, that philosophy will not change. We have always betted on a sustained and sustainable growth. And we have grown the bus ticket, but always with discipline, taking care of the cash flow, keeping our solvency and prioritizing profitability above volume. And let me say this again, we never -- we don't sacrifice profitability for volume. And to do so, we manage carefully our debt limits, our cash flow, our operating cash flow. And throughout the whole company, we promote a culture of anticipation and preparation supported by a rigorous control system. Thanks to being careful. Elecnor today has a very solid financial position. And the reality is that Elecnor is amongst the companies with the lowest cost of funding. We have had issuance with a cost of Euribor plus 20 basis points in our issuances. And this is an extraordinary milestone and shows the position in the market. And as a summary, our strategic principles haven't changed and will not change. So prudent and profitable growth, a strict management of risk and a solid cash flow generation. With such a strong base and the discipline that's part of our DNA, we are ready to take the next step, our 2025, 2027 strategic plan. The strategic plan is a road map and it's what we want to -- the tool we want to use to create growth in the next few years. As we can see on screen -- it's made up by 6 levers. 3 of them are exactly -- we have used the same names as the segments we use in the company and the ones I explained previously. And then we have the strategic drivers, all the 3 levers and the other ones that are crosscutting throughout the whole organization. The first one is services. And we have a clear objective, which is to grow with more profitability. We want to bet on value-added services, reinforcing the relationship with our clients and increasing in operational efficiency, thanks to new technologies and manage, we know is quite strict. We want to improve margins in a business that has traditionally been a volume business, but we are sure we're going to make it. And second lever are projects where we want to make a leap -- and the goal is also to increase our margins. We want to focus around the infrastructure projects. We want to focus on international markets where we can capture projects with a greater value, thanks to our formidable track record in terms of the execution of EPC projects. And third lever is investment. Clearly, this lever will allow us to keep on adding value in the long term through strategic assets and a prudent risk profile. Our objective is to commit over EUR 400 million in investments using the cash generated by the business. But if possible, we would have access to corporate debt by keeping a debt ratio below 1.5x our EBITDA. We'd like to invest in transmission, renewables, energy efficiency or digital infrastructure. Those are investments that provide recurrent revenue provide stability, and they reinforce something that's essential for us, which is our will to remain relevant and our vision of the future. Fourth lever would be people, clearly our main focus. Our growth has been supported historically through the development of our professionals because we are sure of the fact that the most valuable times, the one that evolves within the company, and we would like to foster international mobility and knowledge transfer. And we want to increase the possibilities of growth through the acquisition of new digital capabilities, which is something that's also linked to the next lever, which is digital transformation and innovation. Technology, it's advancing at an amazing pace. And at the group, we have decided to make the most of it. You probably agree with me on the fact that this digital transformation is not optional. It's actually essential to be able to be competitive in the future. And we see digitalization as a way to capture more value and improve our efficiency, our competitiveness and our ability to stay ahead. And that's why we are tackling it decisively. And we are devoting a relevant deal of resources. We want technology to reinforce people, not replace them. And we want to give them better tools so they can carry out their work in a faster way, in a more efficient way and in a safe way. We want to use robotics and artificial intelligence to improve the efficiency. We want to buy the latest technology. And we also want to make decisions through better data analytics. Those are just examples of what we're doing. And the objective is to turn Elecnor into an even more agile company, a more connected company and a more intelligent company. In terms of the value we provide to our shareholders in 2025, '27, our objective is to go beyond the -- well, the levels we had before selling Enerfin. We talked about over EUR 100 million a year, and we'd like to remunerate our shareholder in an attractive and sustainable way. So our plan includes to distribute -- our plans to distribute over EUR 220 million throughout the 3 years, we'll need to double the dividends shared from 2021 to 2023. And this increase will be fostered by the strong cash flow generation that we have forecasted and a healthy financial structure that allows us to combine growth and share dividends without putting more pressure on the balance. So we are sure that Group Elecnor is able to grow and at the same time, increase our dividends because we have a very robust cash flow and recurring business that generate liquidity. We are sure of the fact that value creation can't just be financial. It needs to be also social, environmental and ethical. That's the only way in which we are going to be able to guarantee our future. And that's why our commitment to our society is to generate sustainable growth with a real and positive impact in the communities in which we are. And our corporate purpose and summarize it properly. We like to foster development and create opportunities. We want our company to be -- to generate advancements in the communities in which we operate and for the planet we all share. So rest assured, we will keep on advancing with conviction in our environmental and in projects with social impact and the take care of our environment as well as with the development of knowledge transfer in Elecnor. And of course, we will keep on our commitment with good governance by fostering more compliant systems and generating a culture of integration. So ladies and gentlemen, Elecnor after 67 years of history, feels young with renewed energies, and we're entering a new phase, a phase that's exciting. And without forgetting who we are, we want to go beyond. We'd like to innovate. We want to be ahead of the game, and we want to grow with purpose. And we see we're growing with a purpose. We wish -- we don't want to grow just for the sake of it. We want to grow in sustainable way by creating value. We have the right structure. We had a team that's prepared. And my vision for Elecnor is -- it goes around idea, which is to grow with a solid foundation. And of course, we've got that solid foundation. And our experience, our reputation and our technical skills and cultural -- corporate culture. I see Elecnor Group deploying electricity grids wherever it's needed or building generators or solar panels. I see this group moving forward with new times being more agile, more digitalized and more sustainable, a company where processes are optimized, thanks to technology and decisions are taken, thanks to real-time data. I see a company where generational handout is guaranteed, Young people are trained in our company. They will be the leaders of tomorrow. I see Elecnor Group growing from a solid base towards a promising future without forgetting where we come from because Elecnor doesn't just build infrastructure, it builds trust and future. It works for infrastructure that we deliver every service provided leaves a footprint that stays throughout time and improves the life of people. This is our philosophy, doing a good job today to deserve growth tomorrow. And before closing, I would like to thank you again for being here today. I would like to thank our investors for their trust. We are committed toward this with results and transparency. I would like to thank our customers because they challenge us every day to be better. And I would like to thank our people, the soul of this company because they make impossible things possible over and over. Thank you very much. And now as I said earlier, our CFO, Alex Arrola will be here with us for a Q&A session.

Congratulations for this presentation of all these years of track record. I have 2 questions for you. First, regarding your investment plan, this EUR 400 million. Could you please give us some explanations regarding the sectors you want to invest in your expectations in the investment plan? And the second question, the elephant in the room in our sector today is data centers. What's your exposure? What plans do you have in this business?

Great. If you allow me, I'll start with the second question. Regarding data centers, we have investment plans. We are developing our own data centers. And regarding construction, this is something we pay attention to very actively. We are continuously analyzing opportunities, reviewing offers, creating a team to be able to face this type of project. First question, investments. Well, first of all, I would like to say that we want to commit up to EUR 400 million. I'm saying committing because as you all know, after selling Enerfin, we have this platform I've mentioned Celeo but we are developing a new platform, Elecnor Value. Obviously, what we want to do is to start identifying projects, transmission lines, renewable energy projects, data centers. But in general, any type of asset that will give us this long-term stability, this long-term value that will complement the service activity that's generating short-term value and project activity that generates midterm value. Is there anything you would like to add, Alex?

I think it's perfectly explained. I'm sorry, comments of Mike.

Well, that's going to depend on each project and location. I cannot say this right now. We carry out a thorough risk analysis, not just the investment, but also the construction part. And with that, we define our targets. I would like to add something. Our intention is to build a new investment platform little by little. Let's not forget that Enerfín Adventure lasted 27 years. Obviously, we need to do things little by little with solid foundations. This prudence culture that we all have, as Alberto mentioned, this is part of our identity. Each project is a decision. So there's a difference depending on the country, the technology involved -- our best case could be Celeo. Each project is analyzed, not just from profitability to shareholders' perspective, also constructors. So we have to analyze all the risks. We refer to risks once again. I think this is one of the things we pay more attention to in the strategic plan. This is about risk and risk analysis. The investment risk, the risk when you build an infrastructure, this is paramount. A specific figure, that's really difficult to say. It depends on the moment, the country, the technology.

Thank you again for this event and the effort you're making in communication. I have 2 questions. First one, it's related to investments. I would like to better understand what you think about project allocation, this EUR 400 million you've mentioned, Celeo versus the new vehicle that you will create, what kind of projects will be developed in Celeo and in the new vehicle? And this figure, EUR 400 million, will this be for the new vehicle or not? How are you going to split it? That's the first question. Second, this has to do with margins. You've mentioned through the presentation that you aspire to improve the margins for services and projects. I don't know if perhaps you could give us more information regarding the potential improvement you see for margins and you've established some sort of target regarding margins in the mid and long term in this period covered by the strategic plan.

Well, regarding the distribution of the EUR 400 million, this is not something that we've already defined. We want to be flexible. And as I said, as opportunities come our way, we'll make a decision to invest, and we'll decide how aggressive we want to be -- types. Well, we're going to continue with transmission lines, substations, renewable projects, data centers. We're open to any other type of technology, always considering stability and generating long-term value. I'm sorry, comments of Mike.

That will depend on the location. We have some agreements in place. Celeo is focused right now in Latin America. We could have South Africa or other places and Elecnor whenever -- wherever Celeo is not present. So it's on a case-by-case basis. Obviously, the platform that we have, the one we're more familiar with the management -- the management of transmission lines as Celeo. We are delighted with our partner. We have an excellent relationship. And in those projects that we understand that they are made for Elecnor for some reason, Celeo is not fit for that because of the moment or the location, we are able -- and this is important, we are able because of the cash flow that we generate and our ability to carry out investments in terms of debt, we are able to take advantage of any opportunity so that we wouldn't miss it. Regarding margins, second question. Well, right now, our EBITDA margin is 6%. We want to improve, how much? Well, in terms of percentage, I wouldn't dare to say a figure, but we want to grow and our going project is increasing the margins that we have in services. So above that 6% of EBITDA.

Álvaro Navarro from Bestinver. Given the net cash flow position you have, deleveraging target of 1.5x EBITDA and investments you're considering, the impression I have is that you have a lot of firepower to invest more. I wanted to know if you're considering the possibility of inorganic growth, some M&A activity. And otherwise, if this dividend that you've mentioned, EUR 220 million could be higher because right now, the company, well, if it needs to compete -- its market cap is higher, perhaps the yield -- dividend yield could be higher.

Well, regarding M&A, operations, no doubt. It's -- we always consider it. We are continuously analyzing M&A operations. Historically, we've done things there. Usually, the size is not very big, but we do this on a continuous basis. And your second question, the distribution of dividends. We aspire to at least that dividend, EUR 120 million. So the answer is yes. Depending on the situation, the results, the cash flow, the dividend could be higher.

Ignacio Doménech, JB Capital. I have 2 questions. First one related to services and projects, this EUR 4 billion of annual revenue, given the 50% of the activity comes from networks or electrification. I wanted to see how conservative that target is. This EUR 4 billion, I think it's EUR 3.8 billion. And the second question is related to the EUR 350 million of free cash flow that you have in the plan. Could you please give us the breakdown? It looks a bit low. I don't know if you're excluding this EUR 170 million in taxes that you would recover this year from some movements of working capital.

Well, I'll answer the first one. Our strategic plan is based not just in our current situation, but also our forecast given our current portfolio. For us, at the end of the day, reaching these business volumes is not a goal. Obviously, it's great if we grow, but we want to focus on margin. And we're not concerned if it's EUR 4 billion instead of EUR 3.8 billion. What matters is improving the margin. Before answering the other question, I would like to add something. With many of you, we've shared this message. Our goal is not growing the first line of sales. We want to grow in the lower line profitability. I think Alberto's speech today was a declaration of intentions. EUR 4 billion, is this ambitious or conservative? We're usually closer to being conservative, but I insist our goal is the lower line. And you've mentioned cash generation. Our cash generation for this 3-year period, this EUR 350 million, it's at least EUR 350 million. And once again, I would like to explain what Alberto has said, it's at least EUR 350 million. We will be delighted to generate more, and we trust that we will go beyond this figure. We would like committing at least EUR 400 million, this is a complicated challenge in terms of investment. I wish we achieved this. But the requirements of profitability and prudence when it comes to making decisions, this requires effort to reach that figure of EUR 400 million. And sharing this with shareholders, at least EUR 220 million, yes, it's at least EUR 220 million. Everything we expect in terms of cash generation. As you said, very recently, we waived this collection rights with the tax authorities. In 2024, as a consequence of the sale of our shares in Enerfin, we do make an advancement payment to the tax authority that was really significant, really significant. And this year, we didn't have that. And we've used this cash to distribute the dividend that we paid out last June. We believe, and this is our goal that will be over this figure of EUR 350 million. And for that, we have the cash that has been generated and that will possibly be generated by the business. The cash flow in general, the cash that's invested, the cash that we're going to invest historically, all of this has been generated with the business. Enerfin was built with the business cash. Our share in Celeo is also business cash.

Yes, I'm here. First of all, I would like to join other people in congratulating you for Elecnor's track record this past year. And I would like to ask you something. Considering the 6 levers that make up your strategic plan, the one related to the digital. Could you please give us some examples how digital tools could improve Elecnor boost the margins?

Well, amongst many other things, it's improving processes. We have a clear goal, which is analyzing all and every process. And by implementing new technologies with the same people, we will be able to do more and be more in control. For example, less added value tasks, for example, entering data, we can have -- instead of entering data, people can have -- can view the data and interpret them. This is related to offices, but we also have work sites. We have teams that are doing a market research regarding the tools that exist today or that will exist in the future to start doing pilot tests to improve productivity in these work sites.

And my second question is related to the results that you've achieved these past quarters. It doesn't make sense that the service margin is higher than projects because there's more risk. I understand that this is because of your projects in Australia that were beated before the inflation period we've had. Could you please tell us when you think that these projects will stop having an impact on the accounts and the project margin will be over the service margin.

Well, a significant part of the Australia project has already been executed. I would like to highlight something. Last week, I went to Australia to visit the project, amongst other things. And we've reached important contract milestone. This makes us reassured regarding when the works will be over because we see that we are meeting our deadlines according to our plan. And the forecast is that it will be over the middle of next year.

I would like to add something. Obviously, the approach of revenues and results recognition of the project in Australia is conservative. We couldn't have it otherwise. There are many risks that could impact the project. And as soon as we can mitigate those risks, we'll be delighted. As you said, there's an impact on our margin. These are large projects that add volume to the P&L. And as of today and given where we are in the project, the margin that we are recognizing, it's really modest. But I insist this is what we do in our company. It's not because of the project. The company has a conservative policy. It's what it is. It's not going to change. So as soon as those risks are mitigated, we'll be more than happy to recognize the result.

I'm sorry, comments of Mike.

I wish that was the case.

I wanted to ask you about something. You've mentioned that you could go to other places to improve margins of projects. Could you please give us more information where and how will you do this without having more risks and without worsening your track record? For example, the American market. Apparently, there are many investment opportunities in networks and grids. What are you doing there? How can you grow? Does it make sense for you to grow in the U.S.? And third, I wanted to ask you about Celeo. Is there an opportunity to give more visibility to the value of that asset? Because you've done a great job so far. But in my opinion, this is somehow hidden assets in the context of Elecnor. What can you do to highlight its value?

Well, first of all, the U.S. Well, it's one of our target markets, priority markets. We've been there for a while. We started our serious activities around 2011, and this market has continuously grown. It's the kind of growth that we like, progressive and controlled. And our intention there is continuing to grow. We have 3 subsidiaries, and we want to continue to grow. We've grown a lot organically. Growth is modest, around 15%, 20%, some years. But what we want to do, particularly is growing in a controlled way. One of our main concerns is always accessing good quality labor and improving our teams. That's why we prefer to grow little by little. We know that in the U.S., the number of opportunities is huge. But again, our approach is being sure about the actions that we carry out. Regarding locations, we work in 50 countries, but the core of our business, 85% is focused on our top 8 countries that you saw on screen. And our intention is to grow in those places, the U.S., Spain, obviously, Italy. These locations, we have a sound staff. We have the tools, the knowledge and this solid base will allow us to continue to grow. Regarding Celeo, it's true. It's a pending task for us. We have a deal there. It has value. It's an asset and the market is realizing the value it has. We tried to do something. Well, the projects where Celeo has invested as of today, the value of this for Elecnor considering our share, it's well above EUR 800 million, but Celeo is more than its projects. So we take due note. We know this. We need to turn this around because there's a lot of value in Celeo, and we're not sure that we are conveying the right message. So we take due note.

Thank you very much. Let's continue with Celeo. you've said over and over that the relationship with the Dutch is very good. It's 51-49. But when it comes to projects, there are some minority interests. They take almost 30% of Celeo results before APG and Elecnor. I would like to know if there's an interest there or a possibility to increase the stake of Celeo in those projects? That's my first question. And the second one, Enerfin steps in this industry. I'm not familiar with it, but apparently, Statkraft has changed -- recently changed its strategy. They've sold part of the businesses that bought from Enerfín and other businesses are for sale. So I would like to know if there could be any type of interest from Elecnor to repurchase part of those units that Statkraft wants to sell.

Regarding your second question, well, no, it's not something that we're considering so far. This doesn't mean that we are closed to an opportunity. But at least right now, we're not considering it. Also, you have to bear in mind something where we capture value is greenfield projects. I'm not saying that we've never done it or we will never do it again. But for us, it makes more sense, and it's the goal of the new investment platform, finding projects to be developed to capture as much value as we can. And regarding the projects that you've mentioned from Celeo, I'm going to answer if you agree. Well, I think our relationship with Celeo works. In line with what I've explained is on a case-by-case basis. And the system we have so far will continue to be used. But in the future, we could also consider other options. But in principle, we are going to continue to work the way we are doing right now. Well, that's an important principle for us when we make investment decisions is including the financial balance, how this impacts our structure. Financial balance is critical for us. It's the first step of any decision-making process.

There have been 2 questions about this, but I would like to elaborate. Regarding Celeo, you've said that look at the future investments in greater networks could be done through the new vehicle or the existing vehicle based on the location, but it could also be based on the profitability given that the partner you have is a financial partner, and they could have different profitability parameters, in particular, when it comes to low interest rates when selling Enerfin, it was not 50-50. In some projects, you had lower stakes. How are you going to manage this? And from a growth perspective in new places, new projects, new services, but mainly new projects, Alberto said that there could be other places. And my question is on your own, the U.S. is a very big place. You've been there growing organically. It's not that simple or that fast. You had a huge sale. You've generated a lot of liquidity. You've paid out dividends, but we haven't -- you haven't bought anything. So it's still your idea of doing this organically? Do you think that everything is so expensive and you cannot buy? Or do you think that just with your culture, that's the best way even if it's slower?

Again, I'll go back to our culture. Our culture guides us, and we prefer organic growth. No doubt, it could be a slow growth, but it's taken us to where we are, and we want to continue the same way moving forward. But this doesn't mean that if we see an M&A opportunity, we won't do it. The U.S. is a very active market. We're constantly looking at it. If only because of the size of the country, growing organically in places where we are not present, that's complicated. So that it makes sense to buy a company.

You were more capable of handling a purchase. Right now, when you're carrying out your strategic activities, can you do it with your debt ratios?

Well, the debt ratios I've mentioned are where they are. And in case we decide to buy a company, this will not be a large purchase. It's going to be a small purchase that will allow us to establish ourselves in a new area. And from there, we'll grow organically. The data published in June already include the dividend payout that was committed regarding the sale of Enerfin. Obviously, this has been kept in our cash flow positions. but we're not going to miss any opportunity. And when it comes to investments, we mean long-term project investments, transport and generation infrastructures and also M&A activities that could help us grow in some locations. We want to have the capabilities necessary so that we don't miss any opportunities.

We have 2 questions from the Internet, but no, sorry.

Just probably a question the way around on leverage. If you don't find investment opportunities, you will keep on focusing on cash and -- but your commitment was not to leave cash on the balance. That wasn't -- this still hadn't been used properly. Yes. Understood. You were more capable of handling a purchase right now.

Clearly, the idea is to create value and share it. Of course. So we will need to analyze the situation and the risks that might arise. And according to those factors, we will use all the cash probably, but we have always shared the value we generate and the idea is to keep on doing that. Let's now go to them -- we've got 2 questions. We have 2 questions from the Internet. One has to do with they were requesting a more detailed explanation on the present situation of the [indiscernible] project, which is a project that has been delayed and a question asked by [indiscernible] from Barclays. And he's asking about the status of the project. Well, I mentioned it earlier, but I'll explain it again. So we are in a situation in which we are feeling optimistic on ending or finishing the project. Of course, the technical and execution complexity is quite high, but a good indicator is that the latest contractual milestones have been met. The relationship with the client is very good. And well, the teams are more than ready and to finish what's left to be done. Then one question from Pablo Garcia Patino. What would you tell the interest that just started carriers for Elecnor, how can we generate a real impact? And well, in this case, and I want -- I'm not wearing my CEO hat now, but just my experience. Just with effort, it's part of our culture, something essential and just make it an effort and don't stop knowing your boss, by asking things constantly and training, of course. And that's something that we clearly want to invest in. We want to develop important resources on it on training our own staff and a big part of it is interns or engineers and all the people who are new in the company, we know it's part of our culture that talent grows within -- from within.

And no more questions, Alberto.

Great. If there are no more questions in the room, once again, I want to thank you for attending. We hope we have been able to communicate properly what our vision is, our history and especially where we want to go. And I hope we have answered questions clearly. So without further ado, well, thank you very much, and we can do something that's a bit more fun, which is to share a cocktail. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]